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chiq Mech
The Visceral Realists
5
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Posted - 2014.09.14 14:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
....is an expansion?
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new and I don't know anything about the complexities of programming. I've just read the Oceanus dev blog and apart from a few minor adjustments I can't really see anything that justifies the word "expansion". Imagine a fantasy writer releasing the next installment of a series of stories and it only being a page long. Or perhaps a popular tv show and the long-awaited new series being 1 episode, half-an-hour long - with adverts.
I understand that expansions have been broken up into six week releases and that in many ways this is a good thing. But, what can be achieved in 6 weeks if this is going to be a permanent thing?
So the question is - what is the general concensus about forthcoming "expan....cough....patches"? Will we ever get something BIG? Something that knocks you for six and gets you running around the block naked shouting "oh my god, eve is just so freakin awesome I just can't take anymore!"
Or the continuance of minor and forgettable tweaks? |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5143
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 14:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:...I am relatively new...
Then I suggest you look up Incarna and learn about why doing 'big' additions instead of fixing existing smaller problems is a bad idea. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24545
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Some of those GÇ£minor and forgettable tweaksGÇ¥ have provided more content than some of the biggest expansions the game has ever seen. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Obunagawe
403
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Posted - 2014.09.14 15:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I do think the new release cycle is a big mistake. |
Bisness Pirates
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
3
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Some of those GÇ£minor and forgettable tweaksGÇ¥ have provided more content than some of the biggest expansions the game has ever seen.
You mean like the hunt for the working overview after hyperion? :P
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chiq Mech
The Visceral Realists
5
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ah yes, see what you mean about Incarna.
Not sure what you mean about stealth buff.
and don't get me wrong, I understand the need for tweaking and I do like the new visuals.
But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?
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Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
676
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
In B4 OP has absolutely no clue about software development.
Oh wait. Nope. Not before that happened. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6420
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bisness Pirates wrote:Tippia wrote:Some of those GÇ£minor and forgettable tweaksGÇ¥ have provided more content than some of the biggest expansions the game has ever seen. You mean like the hunt for the working overview after hyperion? :P
One ping only please.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
78
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:Ah yes, see what you mean about Incarna.
Not sure what you mean about stealth buff.
and don't get me wrong, I understand the need for tweaking and I do like the new visuals.
But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?
I agree - would like to see a lot more new content, not just visual tweaks. |
Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
237
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Small tweaks are important but I agree that any modern MMO should be releasing new content on a semi-regular basis, not just updated interfaces and a few new ships. I suppose burner missions help to fill that gap a bit. |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2741
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
The peaks in the player online statistics correspond to the hype the game was getting. First it was before Incarna, then hype was gone after everyone have seen that CCP did not deliver a fraction what they showed earlier in tech demos. Then it was 10 year anniversary, again there was nothing really "big" after that. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Charax Bouclier
Emerald Drama Theatrics
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Would you prefer that they aggregate the patch updates and release them together so you can feel some sort of expansion rush?
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5146
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Charax Bouclier wrote:...expansion rush?
Would this be anything like accidentally walking in space without a spacesuit? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
170
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:....is an expansion?
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new and I don't know anything about the complexities of programming. I've just read the Oceanus dev blog and apart from a few minor adjustments I can't really see anything that justifies the word "expansion". Imagine a fantasy writer releasing the next installment of a series of stories and it only being a page long. Or perhaps a popular tv show and the long-awaited new series being 1 episode, half-an-hour long - with adverts.
I understand that expansions have been broken up into six week releases and that in many ways this is a good thing. But, what can be achieved in 6 weeks if this is going to be a permanent thing?
So the question is - what is the general concensus about forthcoming "expan....cough....patches"? Will we ever get something BIG? Something that knocks you for six and gets you running around the block naked shouting "oh my god, eve is just so freakin awesome I just can't take anymore!"
Or the continuance of minor and forgettable tweaks?
Eve IS freaking awesome. Ans most updates so far have been improvements to the awesome level in my opinion. It is a game that has been in development for more then 11 years already. I am not an old player so have no idea how Eve was all those years ago, but I have been through a number of expansions/updates that I feel have bettered the game greatly. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2741
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:chiq Mech wrote:....is an expansion?
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new and I don't know anything about the complexities of programming. I've just read the Oceanus dev blog and apart from a few minor adjustments I can't really see anything that justifies the word "expansion". Imagine a fantasy writer releasing the next installment of a series of stories and it only being a page long. Or perhaps a popular tv show and the long-awaited new series being 1 episode, half-an-hour long - with adverts.
I understand that expansions have been broken up into six week releases and that in many ways this is a good thing. But, what can be achieved in 6 weeks if this is going to be a permanent thing?
So the question is - what is the general concensus about forthcoming "expan....cough....patches"? Will we ever get something BIG? Something that knocks you for six and gets you running around the block naked shouting "oh my god, eve is just so freakin awesome I just can't take anymore!"
Or the continuance of minor and forgettable tweaks? Eve IS freaking awesome. Ans most updates so far have been improvements to the awesome level in my opinion. It is a game that has been in development for more then 11 years already. I am not an old player so have no idea how Eve was all those years ago, but I have been through a number of expansions/updates that I feel have bettered the game greatly.
Think how great it would be if there would be no WoD all those years in the background. As CCP Soundwave once said, we could have big features and small features together. Now the Big things are eve related like Legion and Valkyrie. But they are not Eve, they are separate games as they look now. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5146
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Think how great it would be if there would be no WoD all those years in the background.
No point in coulda/woulda/shoulda's. What we know is, EVE is still improving and growing. For free. That's good enough for me. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8179
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new
This emans you were here when CCP did 'real' expansions, introducing big new features that {A} screwed up the game in big new ways and {B} were iterated on for a couple weeks then never looked at again.
The push for what CCP came to call "Jesus Features" caused a whole lot of frustration and bad things, culminating in the almost game killing event known as Incarna (the only event in the history of EVE online to cause a major and steep reduction in subscriptions).
After Incarna, CCP pledged to be smart about expansions. They have been, and the things they've done since have had a major positive effect on the game without screwing everything up in ways that the jesus features can't claim. Teircide and mobile structures (as a cople of small examples) added more actually content to the game than any number of past things could have.
The people who complain about it are either the ones who weren't here to see the past, the ones who were and who have forgotten, or the angsty misfits who never liked EVE int he 1st place and see's CCP current direction as 'not delivering the game EVE could be' (ie the game they want that is nothing like EVE). |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2741
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 15:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Think how great it would be if there would be no WoD all those years in the background.
No point in coulda/woulda/shoulda's. What we know is, EVE is still improving and growing. For free. That's good enough for me.
I think there is point in applying what has happened and moving forward, as the Eve was the succesful horse in this race, there was and is no point of making it race on hungry for most of the time. So, any time they spend on making it go even faster will be appreciatet. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
chiq Mech
The Visceral Realists
5
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Is it possible that one or two unsuccessful expansions have created an atmosphere of "treading lightly" to not repeat said mistakes? Can this be used as an excuse to keep tweaking rather than inventing? This reminds me of artists/writers who continually tweak the same piece of work to "perfect it" rather than moving on to something new.
So they made a mistake with Incarna....now we have new nebulae, tooltips and adjustments to overview settings. It's as if ccp have gone to the other extreme and dare not introduce big things.
Why would, say for example, opening jovian space and introducing deep lore negatively affect the game?
I've been browsing the new features forum and some of the ideas are amazing - I also notice that many are a few years old and have never been implemented.
I understand your concerns, and I also understand that introducing "little things" has driven a small amount of content.
But perhaps a good idea to take the plunge, say "what the heck" and do something big? Shake things up?
|
Martin Corwin
Corwin's Corsairs
9
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Eve doesn't get expansions, it gets releases that cost you nothing. But you should know that, if you read the devblog, right?
Apart from that, Oceanus has plenty of new content for a 6 week iteration IMO: new cloaking effect, new wormhole effects, new wormhole nebulas, new burner missions and a new music piece. Not exactly new, but the beginning of module tiericide will be huge.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
12573
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gets stuff for free.
Wants to pick what they get.
lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~ |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1262
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:Is it possible that one or two unsuccessful expansions have created an atmosphere of "treading lightly" to not repeat said mistakes? It would be possible if there were only one or two unsucessful expansions. The reality is there were one or two catastrophic expansions, a whole load that added things that needed adjustments (which resulted in later expansions or components of expansions which were just fixes of content in previous expansions) which could thus be considered unsuccessful, and the odd one like Apocrypha that actually delivered.
As for treading lightly, they recently overhauled the core mechanics of industry for the first time since the game launched as far as I know (certainly the first time since 2006), I hear they're doing invention soon, and their current stated plan for the future is to go around to each of the super-nasty super-hard-to-modify core components of the game and rework them all, as well as stuff like module tiericide.
As for the six week release limiting the scope of added content, if you watch/read the relevant videos/blogs you'll find that the point is that the only releases are six-weekly; the dev work doesn't have to fit into six week windows, so they could work on a large 'jesus feature' over a longer time and fit it into one of the releases if they wanted to - they just probably won't because they and we have learned that large monolithic additions to the game don't work out well.
As for whether the release cycles are a good idea, this is a hard one to argue. They've tried pretty much everything else they can do short of not updating the game at all at one extreme, and releasing an offical EVE 2 at the other extreme. The simple fact of the matter is that it has worked out better for the game and the players every time CCP have moved further from large monolithic expansions and closer to working on the existing game systems in smaller more iterative updates. Changing the release cycle to match the more successful development philosophy really is the smart move. [witty image] - Stream |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2747
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote: Gets stuff for free.
Wants to pick what they get.
Wants more of it too.
Quote:The reality is there were one or two catastrophic expansions I would say underdeveloped. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
getinmyshipihavecandy
Suspicious Van
3
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
From my point of view it looks as if we'll get small updates, fixes and tiny treats every 6 weeks. Then every few months they'll give us a large feature that has been worked on behind the stage.
I like the new cycle. Gives us small things in between the big things. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5149
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 16:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
getinmyshipihavecandy wrote:From my point of view it looks as if we'll get small updates, fixes and tiny treats every 6 weeks. Then every few months they'll give us a large feature that has been worked on behind the stage.
I like the new cycle. Gives us small things in between the big things.
You have the best name in the game.
The like is for the name. They don't let us like twice or I'd give you one for the post too. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2747
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
I would not mind them working on the foundations of things, like now, to make possible big things later, then they can add hype and it will be a great success. I hope they will make it big someday and they will deliver. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Torneach Structor
Emrys Enterprises
117
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Applying regular MMO expansion logic to EVE just doesn't work.
In a themepark MMO, the developers need to constantly push out new content since they are the only real engine of said content.
In EVE, the developers have to constantly tweak and alter and maybe add some tools that the players themselves use to create content.
So, really, EVE tweaks and minor are in many ways equivalent to a regular MMO's expansion cycle, even though they look nothing alike - though this can be chalked up to EVE being nothing like those other games. |
Forest Archer
Pandora Sphere Disavowed.
152
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:Is it possible that one or two unsuccessful expansions have created an atmosphere of "treading lightly" to not repeat said mistakes? Can this be used as an excuse to keep tweaking rather than inventing? This reminds me of artists/writers who continually tweak the same piece of work to "perfect it" rather than moving on to something new.
So they made a mistake with Incarna....now we have new nebulae, tooltips and adjustments to overview settings. It's as if ccp have gone to the other extreme and dare not introduce big things.
Why would, say for example, opening jovian space and introducing deep lore negatively affect the game?
I've been browsing the new features forum and some of the ideas are amazing - I also notice that many are a few years old and have never been implemented.
I understand your concerns, and I also understand that introducing "little things" has driven a small amount of content.
But perhaps a good idea to take the plunge, say "what the heck" and do something big? Shake things up?
2 things one is that the vets who have been around since the last good major expansion apocrypha know that CCP botched most of them and are not quite ready to jump into another one, we want them but we want them to be done well so when they have it done and ready we'll go for it. And the second is that the past 2 years CCP is fixing 11 year old issues if you want constant large expansions you are welcome to give CCP large amounts of money to do it, and most players don't care much about lore it's cool background but hardly effects gameplay. Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if your in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4883
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bears: OMGCCPTHEGAMEISBROKENFIXITORIMUNSUBBINGMY ELEVETYTWELVETHOUSANDACCOUNTS(thatiplex)
CCP: *overhauls exploration,industry,makes ui sharing a thing and many other quality of life changes*
Bears: OMGCCPWHYTHEHELLAREYOUJUSTFIXINTHEGAMEANDNOTRELEASINGCONTENT!!!!!!
CCP: *collectively contemplates dusting off the longboats* =][= |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6078
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
While I see the reason CCP is doing it this way, I have to admit I miss the old days when an expansion was something to get excited about. The hype, the speculation, the high quality trailers, the threadnaughts over one rumor or another. Trying to read between the lines when we actually got some info so that we'd have an advantage over our fellow players on launch day.
Good stuff! With a six week cycle, we'll never see anything like that again and I think EVE has lost a little excitement because of it.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
1577
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:I do think the new release cycle is a big mistake.
It's certainly hard to argue with your reasoning. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2756
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Better if they make it good than underdeveloped, so I will be happy if they will be able to give us one "big" hyped feature per year, or even less but let it be something good, worth subscribing again. This game needs it, to draw some players back, or new ones. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Felicity Love
Imperium Galactic Navy
2133
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
Some releases will be more juicy than others. Or, put another way... some releases will be "meat and potatoes" while the rest will just be side dishes and "gravy". Cake, even.
Pull up a chair, dig in, enjoy.
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
12585
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:The hype, the speculation, the high quality trailers
I love the trailers as a standalone piece of entertainment.. but I wonder how everyone is OK with these trailers not resembling anything that ends up happening in the game itself..
lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~ |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
124
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
You will have to forgive ccp, they are FAR to busy with tournaments and parties around the world to do anything of note since incarna
I do agree that a proper expansion should just be tweaks and fixes, those are called patches but as ccp runs out of things to be expansion worthy they've seem to have taken to naming their monthly patches and calling them expansions to get new players and keep existing ones "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mine" -Dr. Smith |
Solecist Project
9918
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 19:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
Martin Corwin wrote:Eve doesn't get expansions, it gets releases that cost you nothing. But you should know that, if you read the devblog, right? Apart from that, Oceanus has plenty of new content for a 6 week iteration IMO: new cloaking effect, new wormhole effects, new wormhole nebulas, new burner missions and a new music piece. Not exactly new, but the beginning of module tiericide will be huge. And new clothes, but I fear that something certain is missing.
But who needs clothes anyway........ *cough* ;) (: :) |
Nariya Kentaya
The Pulsar Innovation Surely You're Joking
1524
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 19:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:Ah yes, see what you mean about Incarna.
Not sure what you mean about stealth buff.
and don't get me wrong, I understand the need for tweaking and I do like the new visuals.
But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?
They still have big projects being worked on. the difference is, in the past, their release windows were restricted to once every 6 MONTHS, meaning if something got finsihed mere days after a release window, then it would likely be shelved for 5 and a half months to the next expansion. with a 6 week window, they can push out content as its ready. yes, this means ALOT of "fluff" or "tweak" patch-spansions, but roughly every 5-7 months one of those release cycles will see the completion of a major project aswell.
basically, the content they work on is no different than before, they simply are allowing a frequency of releases to put out content as its finished, instead of as its marketed. |
Bryen Verrisai
EVE University Ivy League
250
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 19:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:What we know is, EVE is still improving and growing. For free. That's good enough for me. The expansions aren't free, they're paid for by subscriptions and by PLEX purchases.
The only MMO I can immediately recall that actually offers free expansions is GW2. |
Seneca Auran
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 19:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:chiq Mech wrote:...I am relatively new... Then I suggest you look up Incarna and learn about why doing 'big' additions instead of fixing existing smaller problems is a bad idea. Also, posting in a stealth 'buff free stuff' thread.
To be fair, the problem with Incarna wasn't the concept, it was their decision to release it with approximately .00001% of what they said it was going be, and then making a series of hilariously terrible decisions in handling the aftermath.
Big additions are fine, just make them, ya know, actually big editions delivering at least most of what was promised.
It would be like, I dunno, wow hyping up The Burning Crusade, then releasing a single new weapon and saying, "Don't worry! Everything else we promised is coming! Probably...piecemeal, over the next decade or so! You can thank us for this awesome expansion now!..wait, why are they angry?"
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6081
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 20:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:The hype, the speculation, the high quality trailers
I love the trailers as a standalone piece of entertainment.. but I wonder how everyone is OK with these trailers not resembling anything that ends up happening in the game itself.. I think you answered your own question. They are entertainment. Plenty of actual gameplay vids on YouTube. I can't think of any promo vid for a game that shows actual in game footage, off hand. They are eye candy and CCP did some of the best.
Having said that, I will say that my personal favorite was all in game footage. I actually built a new rig just for that one expansion.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
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chiq Mech
The Visceral Realists
7
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 20:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ok then, another question - based upon someone pointing out that expansions are free (assuming you mean that we don't actually pay a one-off fee for a big expansions like some other mmos):
Do you prefer the current method - pay monthly/plex to receive tweaks and minor updates?
or
Who wouldn't mind paying -ú40 or so once a year for a fullscale "proper" expansion?
and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.
What i don't mean is a new pvp ship with some retro-actively-fitted lore and new skins for suns.
Personally, I'd be happy to pay the extra once a year |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4895
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 20:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'd rather a functional game thanks.
Edit: btw that content you're looking for, you're it . =][= |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1268
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 21:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I can't think of any promo vid for a game that shows actual in game footage, off hand. Now, I'm pretty sleepy because I just woke up, but I'm also pretty sure you linked just such a video for EVE in your next paragraph. EVE actually has several, almost all from the early days. [witty image] - Stream |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1268
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 21:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:Who wouldn't mind paying -ú40 or so once a year for a fullscale "proper" expansion? I sure wouldn't. If it was at all feasible as a payment model I mean.
chiq Mech wrote:and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really. Oh. I changed my mind. [witty image] - Stream |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5843
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 21:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
You might consider that all those "minor additions" you've received in the last few expansions (which are not so minor by the way) are things you'd still be waiting on if the old 6 month development cycle were in place.
I'll take the smaller things as they become ready, bigger things being released when they are ready (and not needed to be delayed for several months if they miss the expansion deadline by a week or two), and I'll keep in mind that this release cycle makes it much more likely that what is released will not only be fresh code (not sitting idle for a few months) but far more likely to be iterated on in a timely fashion. If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á
Ranger 1 Presents https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1539
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 21:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote: and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.
The problem is you are thinking theme park MMO's. Who push out a whole bunch of re-skinned content (The boars are now blue and see through, it's 'new') that invalidates all previous expansions and creates a new grind to the new level cap.
EVE doesn't invalidate content. So most MMO's their actual content is only what is in the latest expansion, everything else is a grind to get there. EVE keeps all old content relevant, so these little 'tweaks' as you put it are actually creating more content than entire theme park expansions, because they make a bunch of old content more relevant in the overall meta of the game. |
Solecist Project
9921
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 21:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:chiq Mech wrote: and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.
The problem is you are thinking theme park MMO's. Who push out a whole bunch of re-skinned content (The boars are now blue and see through, it's 'new') that invalidates all previous expansions and creates a new grind to the new level cap. EVE doesn't invalidate content. So most MMO's their actual content is only what is in the latest expansion, everything else is a grind to get there. EVE keeps all old content relevant, so these little 'tweaks' as you put it are actually creating more content than entire theme park expansions, because they make a bunch of old content more relevant in the overall meta of the game. More active content for people who like to immerse themselves deeper into a universe ... ... would actually be a good thing ... ... but I have no idea how to properly apply this to EVE.
Think Faction Warfare. That's a branch for these people, but the meaninglessness is seriously wasted potential.
CCP SoundWave was a visionary regarding this. (: :) |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4898
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 21:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:chiq Mech wrote: and when I say "proper expansion", I mean huge story lines, more playable factions, intriguing exploration content, ownership of asteroid colonies - well, world's your oyster really.
The problem is you are thinking theme park MMO's. Who push out a whole bunch of re-skinned content (The boars are now blue and see through, it's 'new') that invalidates all previous expansions and creates a new grind to the new level cap. EVE doesn't invalidate content. So most MMO's their actual content is only what is in the latest expansion, everything else is a grind to get there. EVE keeps all old content relevant, so these little 'tweaks' as you put it are actually creating more content than entire theme park expansions, because they make a bunch of old content more relevant in the overall meta of the game. More active content for people who like to immerse themselves deeper into a universe ... ... would actually be a good thing ... ... but I have no idea how to properly apply this to EVE. Think Faction Warfare. That's a branch for these people, but the meaninglessness is seriously wasted potential. CCP SoundWave was a visionary regarding this. More interesting,driven community minded people willing to heard cats would achieve that, James (whatever, code guy, you know who I'm on about) comes to mind. A counter culture to code that wasn't based on hate would be perfect .
=][= |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2764
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 21:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
I remember one mission for security rating above 5.0 that was camped by some players 24/7 for the shiny modules. CCP ultimately get rid of it, but they did not remove agent. I believe every static content would ultimately meet this end. New people trying to do it, would crush on the wall of griefers, thieves and gankers, us, EVE players that is.
So no static content for ever. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1540
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 21:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Problem is Code is visibly based on hate. I've suggested some things that create more positive cultures at points, like missions/anomalies with multiple optional objectives that one person can't do all of them at once. So there is more point to working together than just gate camps and blobbing. WH's do very well for that, as do Incursions (Though Low needs the same cap raise as null is getting I think, to help them out there). But a lot of EVE's PvE content which is what most peoples bread & butter income is based on is all about solo. Because teaming up actually looses efficiency in nearly every case.
Anyway, that's getting off topic, like I said above. A small tweak to things (for example, 'Anchorable bubbles now have a life time of one week'. Seems tiny on the face of it.) will have huge shifts in the meta of EVE, and create immense gameplay. |
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Grog Aftermath
Need more grog
109
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 22:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:chiq Mech wrote:Ah yes, see what you mean about Incarna.
Not sure what you mean about stealth buff.
and don't get me wrong, I understand the need for tweaking and I do like the new visuals.
But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?
I agree - would like to see a lot more new content, not just visual tweaks.
If it's well thought out content, otherwise it can make things worse.
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
950
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 22:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
*Flashes his 10 year vet status badge+ (seriously CCP i would pay a plex or two to have an official one..)
I'm going to make a few points. And yes i will repeat what others have said.
1) Expansions are dead. Get that in your head, there are nor more expansions. EvE has gone to a release cycle, more like patches. These are not Expansions, merely updates tot he game. New stuff will be added, but not as an expansion. Once you get that in your head, then its very easy to understand the new release model. so once again, there are no more expansions.
2) I have said this a few times, and i will say it again. EVE's old model sucked. Before incarnia, this is how it went, and you can seriously read about this stuff in old dev blogs. I will take two features and give you an example of what i mean:
CCP: Hey guys in out next expansion Revelations 1 we are going to change the current escrow system into a new and exciting more flexible contract system. You can use this system to buy and sell items like normal, you can also use this system as a CEO to do loan programs to your members. so if say someone wants a barge, you can give them a barge and they will have to use it to mine x amount, once they do that, it will be theirs. We are also going to give the alliances the ability to form treaties. So if say BoB is in Delv and Quirious they can form a treaties with FiX so that while bob and fix are in qurious they are blue, but if FiX goes into delv they become red. We will also look into new dynamic ways of utilize the bounty system. And guy this will be the first setup, we will go over this the next few expansions and make it truly awesome, so wait for that to come out in the next expansion in 6 weeks!"
one week later:
CCP: Sorry guys, we had to cut the bounty system from contracts, its just not going to work, but don;t worry we will address this at a later time.
another week.
CCP: Yea you know that loan program thing? Yea we had to cut and changed that, its now an open contract. It doesn;t quite work how we said it will but we will address it later.
three more weeks (one week till release)
CCP: Some of you are noticing the treaty system was not on sisi, yea we had to cut that. The corp and alliance code was to complex for us to do what we wanted. So we are going to put that on hold and will work on it over the next few months. Don;t worry guys, corp and alliance rehash is coming soon(tm)...
Rev 1 launches
CCP: ok guys let me introduce you to heat and all the cool stuff its going to do... whats that? No corp and alliances has to wait... i am talking about heat now...
And this example:
CCP: Hey guys, let me tell you about the cool mining features coming in Exodus. We are making it so corps can form alliances and because of that we are going to give these alliances more tools to gather resources. So we are introducing these new type of mining ships called a mining barge. We are also going to enable moon mining with pos! And we are thinking of adding a capital miner, but that will be way later. Also these new system will replace belts, we are making system wide asteroid belts, they will be huge with vast amounts of ore, and the chance to maybe get some moon ore and other special ore as well. I n addition we are going to introduce comet mining as an exciting update to the mining system. Look for all this in Nov 2004!
A few weeks later
CCP: Yea comet mining is out.. and we had to tweek the barges.
Nother few weeks
CCP: yea system wide belts are out, but don;t worry we will do something with mining in the future.
Now then. The new system, of small when its done features i think is a hell of a lot better. I think the issue is they need to finish the repairs of old systems before they add in new stuff. Think of it as trying to build a second story on a house that has rotting and falling walls and a broken foundation. You have to do repairs before you can upgrade. Thats what ccp is doing. Repairing.
3) To all the idiots stating "well if ccp had just kept dumping money into eve..." thats like telling Ford Hey henry, the model a is great, everyone loves it, you don;t nee dot make the model t or any other future cars, just keep working on that model a and you will do fine.
It doesn't; work that way. CCP is a software company. As such they need to add more products or in the long run they will die. So they will take risk, some will succeed, some won;t. As long as they balance there money and resources, then who cares. Eve is here, i can play it, and if other stuff come out that makes the experence better, or a whole new ip comes that makes ccp more money, then its a win win. and if they flounder, then oh well. I'm here till the end either way, i just hope its a long time away. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
950
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 22:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:I remember one mission for security rating above 5.0 that was camped by some players 24/7 for the shiny modules. CCP ultimately get rid of it, but they did not remove agent. I believe every static content would ultimately meet this end. New people trying to do it, would crush on the wall of griefers, thieves and gankers, us, EVE players that is.
So no static content for ever.
These were the DED beacons, they unhooked them and made them move around because of farming, and people were whining they could never get any of the shiney. So they became unhooked and move around. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
929
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 23:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Let CCP fix all the minor issues that everyone has complained about since 2003 first then lets get some new content which will inevitably break the game again.
Remember the expansion that broke the auto pilot and all freighters went through decon? |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
950
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 23:24:00 -
[55] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Let CCP fix all the minor issues that everyone has complained about since 2003 first then lets get some new content which will inevitably break the game again.
Remember the expansion that broke the auto pilot and all freighters went through decon?
lol i remember that OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
Vyl Vit
762
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 00:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The map is big enough, so don't look for any new "zones". I don't think they'll be introducing "mounts" any time soon, either. But, don't quote me. Maybe if we had some nice capes with our logos on them...yeah...this Christmas.
EVE's Cloaky Cloak Expansion. Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Spookyjay
Air The Initiative.
2
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 00:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
EVE needs to work in a kinda little but often way for balancing and then every 3 months or so hit a big ish addition. ignoring balancing and assuming that balancing is done for these the next thing i want to see are:
-PIrate faction burner missions. -t2 and faction capitals. (Give people something high end to aim for in the same build cost area as jump freighters. -Then advanced and super structures for alliances to build. (once sov and pos reworked) so things like gate defenses and special stations where you can dock supers. - player owned gates. player owned pockets of space where you can actually like have npc polices forces for your faction and maybe even concord recognition if you get it high/secure enough. (but the ability to lose both via war with other alliances. - more incursion like events where advanced npc do other stuff like attack player space or structures. or even maybe empire stations and can destroy or incap them if not defeated.
then maybe when we have more advances NPC and the ability to use them start pulling aliens/jove npc in with very limited reward from them. basically i think eve had a good 10 years left in it. maybe 15 if they can push the AI and Interactivity with the world. Actually make it feel alive.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5848
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 00:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
One thing that will help the situation you just described are the development of tools that will allow developers to more easily create new content.
This new release cycle actually promotes time being spent on back end (yet vital) work like this, as the team working on those tools doesn't have to worry about meeting a specific deadline while also producing something shiny for the players at the same time. If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á
Ranger 1 Presents https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents |
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
590
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 01:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote:....is an expansion?
Forgive my ignorance, I am relatively new and I don't know anything about the complexities of programming. I've just read the Oceanus dev blog and apart from a few minor adjustments I can't really see anything that justifies the word "expansion". Imagine a fantasy writer releasing the next installment of a series of stories and it only being a page long. Or perhaps a popular tv show and the long-awaited new series being 1 episode, half-an-hour long - with adverts.
I understand that expansions have been broken up into six week releases and that in many ways this is a good thing. But, what can be achieved in 6 weeks if this is going to be a permanent thing?
So the question is - what is the general concensus about forthcoming "expan....cough....patches"? Will we ever get something BIG? Something that knocks you for six and gets you running around the block naked shouting "oh my god, eve is just so freakin awesome I just can't take anymore!"
Or the continuance of minor and forgettable tweaks?
you will notice most of the player base that have been around for a while always refer to them as patches. expansions in eve are something that are rarely done. CCP Seagull is working towards something big, an expansion, that needs a bunch of fixes and smaller additions to the game to be completed before its released. Hopefully it will be done with in the next year or so. until then, I am thankful they are fixing, re-balancing and adding small things.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2771
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 06:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
DaReaper, I was thinking about this mission:
Also
Quote: As such they need to add more products or in the long run they will die.
So I think, but there is clearly the lack of quality management in that company that showeled money into WoD and Dust 514. Because of that I would advise them to stick to the winning side, and trying to upgrade their skills first, or start with something small, that can be build upon. EVE started that way, it was just a rudimentary grid of systems working together, with a lot of potential for expanding. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
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Jason Butte
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 06:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:chiq Mech wrote:...I am relatively new... Then I suggest you look up Incarna and learn about why doing 'big' additions instead of fixing existing smaller problems is a bad idea. Also, posting in a stealth 'buff free stuff' thread.
So it's because CCP is incompetent?
pls lock ISD for CCP abuse |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
2771
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 06:30:00 -
[62] - Quote
Everybody here knows that PSHHHHHHHH management can do miracles. What kind of miracles is another story. The idea here, to put it in graphic terms for once, is to turn s**t into gold.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif =ƒÿü |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
6833
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 06:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
chiq Mech wrote: But surely tweaking should be running in the background - maybe employ a couple of janitors to press a few buttons to make stations look more shiny?
Really? |
marVLs
636
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 06:43:00 -
[64] - Quote
Just w8 a little, there will be big and new features but not every 6 weeks ffs...
Also imma not playing until HiRes textures are out :P |
Solecist Project
9929
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 09:17:00 -
[65] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Just w8 a little, there will be big and new features but not every 6 weeks ffs...
Also imma not playing until HiRes textures are out :P I hope for HiRes skin textures soooo much ....
they're not even using them on the servers ... ... just look at how pixelated my freckles look. :( (: :) |
Tivookz
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 09:42:00 -
[66] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:chiq Mech wrote:...I am relatively new... Then I suggest you look up Incarna and learn about why doing 'big' additions instead of fixing existing smaller problems is a bad idea. Also, posting in a stealth 'buff free stuff' thread.
It's only bad in EVE where 99% of the people are afraid of change. Incarna would have brought in some new badly needed subscribers and thats a fact. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
960
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 16:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
IIRC, according to fan fest, they are working on an 18 month time line. In that time line was industry fixes, corp and alliances, pos' and sov. So if we hold that to be true, then the time line started with kronos which came out in may, so 18 months form may puts us well into 2015. So small updates with a few big ones will become norm. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
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