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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:09:00 -
[361] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote: Now about that decision to shift Cyno Beacons and Jump Bridges out to the 25km position? Whyyyyyyyyyy? That does nothing with regard to this bumping issue and really nothing to create a shift in risk. What is does do is create the changing of millions of bookmarks.
because otherwise you could anchor a cyno beacon or jump bridge to circumvent the 25km restriction also do they not have corp bookmarks where you live, even we in the cfc, largest jump bridge havers in the game, can fit our entire catalog in 200 bookmarks or so
Yeah thanks, those CFC bookmarks are my bookmarks too. Coalition and all that. Corp bookmarks, yada yada. Someone still has to go do it for no good reason relevant to the underlying issue of POS bumping.
Where a cyno beacon or jump bridge is anchored today has absolutely zero to do with what drove this change: bumping a ship inside the POS using a ship outside the shield that does not have the password. Jump bridges certainly had nothing to do with it and it would be an absolute stretch to say beacons did or even could. So linking them to the underlying POS bumping issue is unwarranted. Perhaps they just wanted to change them anyway, which is fine. But that's not what happened. They linked it to the POS bumping issue/solution. |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
649
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 21:11:00 -
[362] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:By "listened to feedback", do you mean "my PL buddies told me on Mumble they'd lose out on a bunch of dread kills if they couldn't just warp to zero on the targets and light a cyno without trouble"? You finally added a minor measure of skill to hot dropping stationary targets and all it takes is a bit of lobbying from your old pals for you to completely cave in. Weak ****.
At least PRETEND you're interested in fixing the supercap plague infesting this game, ****. Is my voice worth less just because I don't have a supercap hogging one of my accounts?
Controlling your game. :smug:
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Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
233
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Posted - 2014.09.22 21:37:00 -
[363] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:By "listened to feedback", do you mean "my PL buddies told me on Mumble they'd lose out on a bunch of dread kills if they couldn't just warp to zero on the targets and light a cyno without trouble"? You finally added a minor measure of skill to hot dropping stationary targets and all it takes is a bit of lobbying from your old pals for you to completely cave in. Weak ****.
At least PRETEND you're interested in fixing the supercap plague infesting this game, ****. Is my voice worth less just because I don't have a supercap hogging one of my accounts?
Mate, no need for such butthurt.
You guys lost the flag event and cried hard until it was put up next to PL's. To then go about and ***** about people voicing their critiques of something which ultimately changed it from the original inception is pretty hypocritical. Your voice is worth less and less each time you accuse someone of breaking their company's NDA and other policies and quickly claim a grand conspiracy like you're the runt of the litter that spawned Gevlon Goblin. You seem like you could use a hug, would you like a hug? LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
439
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Posted - 2014.09.22 22:03:00 -
[364] - Quote
you're still going on about that flag thing? lol
but apparently forcing a cyno frigate to make a choice between hard tackling a target inside the exclusion zone and lighting a cyno is too much for a game where cooperation is so heavily promoted, all remote effects are better than local effects |
Ned Black
Driders
84
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 22:36:00 -
[365] - Quote
This may be a tad bit better than the previous version... but it is still like applying a bandaid to the head when trying to fix a broken leg...
Why not just make it so that anything outside the POS shield that lacks either roles or password can only interact with the POS force field and not with anything inside the POS? |
Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
233
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 22:57:00 -
[366] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:you're still going on about that flag thing? lol
but apparently forcing a cyno frigate to make a choice between hard tackling a target inside the exclusion zone and lighting a cyno is too much for a game where cooperation is so heavily promoted, all remote effects are better than local effects.
do you really think the nda covers oog comms, or would actually be capable of enforcing anything said there? can you ******* blame me where every goddamned decision this idiot makes equals '**** the small guys, here have some more advantages, my null comrades'
You still look like you need a hug. That or to log off the computer for a few days and not be so antagonistic with the accusations of collusion. If you have evidence though contact CCP's Internal Affairs Division. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad The Afterlife.
41
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 23:12:00 -
[367] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. Like I said before, we incorporated the feedback from this thread last week and discussed a modified version of the plan with the CSM. We're now ready to announce the results.
In this new version of the plan, you will be able to activate the Cyno Field Gen module anywhere outside the shields, but if the ship lighting the cyno is within 25km of a starbase forcefield, the actual beacon will appear at least 25km away from the forcefield. Ships jumping to the cyno field will appear around that beacon 25km away instead of beside your ship.
The OP has been updated. Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.
Quote:Ships jumping to the cyno field will appear around that beacon 25km away instead of beside your ship.
Is this by chance a fix/nerf to cyno bumping mechanics, when you can kill a carrier or jump freighter by bumping cyno ship off station, before said carrier/freighter loads into the system? Or will it work that way on poses exclusively? |
Calypso Warsmith
Strata Dynamics Power Absolute Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 23:50:00 -
[368] - Quote
For the love of all things holy PLEASE add this change to all stations, to the effect a Cyno can be set up within XYZ km of docking range.
With all this sweet sweet looting moving around eve inside of Jump freighters, and the fact that players have almost completely removed the risk of jumping a JF around lows sec Do to the mapping of none kick out stations and the record of where and how to place cynos for instant jump and docking, Rarely do the professional logistics guys get caught. They are more likely to die from a Gank in highsec than moving there JF in Low/Null sec. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
465
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 00:47:00 -
[369] - Quote
Calypso Warsmith wrote:For the love of all things holy PLEASE add this change to all stations, to the effect a Cyno can be set up within XYZ km of docking range.
With all this sweet sweet looting moving around eve inside of Jump freighters, and the fact that players have almost completely removed the risk of jumping a JF around lows sec Do to the mapping of none kick out stations and the record of where and how to place cynos for instant jump and docking, Rarely do the professional logistics guys get caught. They are more likely to die from a Gank in highsec than moving there JF in Low/Null sec. not sure what this is trying to solve
if you can't light a cyno safely at a station, we'll just light them on gates into highsec and onto jump bridges (titan bridged freighters) instead
especially us in the cfc because we own all the 0.0 close to jita
and lawl if you think that putting displacement zones on gates is going to fly, imagine the gatecamp, 100% safe from hotdrop
all this does is bend over non-sov-havers and non-cfc havers so that you can fantasize about endless jf kills |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
152
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 01:37:00 -
[370] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:you're still going on about that flag thing? lol
but apparently forcing a cyno frigate to make a choice between hard tackling a target inside the exclusion zone and lighting a cyno is too much for a game where cooperation is so heavily promoted, all remote effects are better than local effects.
do you really think the nda covers oog comms, or would actually be capable of enforcing anything said there? can you ******* blame me where every goddamned decision this idiot makes equals '**** the small guys, here have some more advantages, my null comrades'
The problem is if he makes a decision to help the little guys, it GREATLY benefits larger guys TYPICALLY, then you cry about favoritism
Dang if you do, dang if you dont
BTW: nothing prevent the tackling frigate from lighting a cyno anywhere now, or can't you read?? |
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Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
233
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 01:45:00 -
[371] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:you're still going on about that flag thing? lol
but apparently forcing a cyno frigate to make a choice between hard tackling a target inside the exclusion zone and lighting a cyno is too much for a game where cooperation is so heavily promoted, all remote effects are better than local effects.
do you really think the nda covers oog comms, or would actually be capable of enforcing anything said there? can you ******* blame me where every goddamned decision this idiot makes equals '**** the small guys, here have some more advantages, my null comrades' The problem is if he makes a decision to help the little guys, it GREATLY benefits larger guys TYPICALLY, then you cry about favoritism Dang if you do, dang if you dont BTW: nothing prevent the tackling frigate from lighting a cyno anywhere now, or can't you read??
I'm afraid he can read, it's just the comprehension of what he read that seems to be the issue. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 02:21:00 -
[372] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote: Now about that decision to shift Cyno Beacons and Jump Bridges out to the 25km position? Whyyyyyyyyyy? That does nothing with regard to this bumping issue and really nothing to create a shift in risk. What is does do is create the changing of millions of bookmarks.
because otherwise you could anchor a cyno beacon or jump bridge to circumvent the 25km restriction So what? Why do they have to be subject to the same restriction? That's the part that wasn't specified. Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer] |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
465
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 03:15:00 -
[373] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote: Now about that decision to shift Cyno Beacons and Jump Bridges out to the 25km position? Whyyyyyyyyyy? That does nothing with regard to this bumping issue and really nothing to create a shift in risk. What is does do is create the changing of millions of bookmarks.
because otherwise you could anchor a cyno beacon or jump bridge to circumvent the 25km restriction So what? Why do they have to be subject to the same restriction? That's the part that wasn't specified. because otherwise you have a bunch of one-off bullcrap that you have to compensate for, doing it this way is easier to implement
you all need to calm the heck down, i'm going to have to redo all of my bookmarks for GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] personally and I don't care because the number of bookmarks is just not that large, not even for us
interceptors exist and they warp fast
it just isn't important enough to have a conniption about it |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
465
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 03:19:00 -
[374] - Quote
in fact updating the bookmarks is even easier than you think because it's not like the old ones are being deleted
you warp to the old bookmark, if the jb has been moved, magically you are already on grid with the thing you need to bookmark
delete old bookmark (protip: do this by right clicking in space to filter your bookmarks to the ones in system) then rebookmark new one
then warp to next system, rinse and repeat
get half a dozen nerds doing this and it'll go by fast |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
92
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 03:37:00 -
[375] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote: Now about that decision to shift Cyno Beacons and Jump Bridges out to the 25km position? Whyyyyyyyyyy? That does nothing with regard to this bumping issue and really nothing to create a shift in risk. What is does do is create the changing of millions of bookmarks.
because otherwise you could anchor a cyno beacon or jump bridge to circumvent the 25km restriction So what? Why do they have to be subject to the same restriction? That's the part that wasn't specified. because otherwise you have a bunch of one-off bullcrap that you have to compensate for, doing it this way is easier to implement
Completely agree that re-doing bookmarks isn't that big of an issue. Combined across everyone it adds up, but the point is that shifting the locations has absolutely nothing to do with the POS bumping issue. AFAIK there is no "one-off bullcrap" to compensate for, but if you have examples that would be helpful. In the end, its really no big deal. It's just that there is no good reason to do it in the first place. IDK, maybe its easier for them to code if they can just copy/paste for cynos, cyno gens and jump bridges. But I'm not sure "it's easier for CCP to code it" should be the driving force behind a change. If that was the case, just saying "it's an exploit and you WILL be banned" will likely halt those trying to skirt the edge. No coding involved. |
Calypso Warsmith
Strata Dynamics Power Absolute Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 05:11:00 -
[376] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Calypso Warsmith wrote:For the love of all things holy PLEASE add this change to all stations gates, to the effect a Cyno can be set up within XYZ km of docking/jumping range.
With all this sweet sweet looting moving around eve inside of Jump freighters, and the fact that players have almost completely removed the risk of jumping a JF around lows sec Do to the mapping of none kick out stations and the record of where and how to place cynos for instant jump and docking, Rarely do the professional logistics guys get caught. They are more likely to die from a Gank in highsec than moving there JF in Low/Null sec. not sure what this is trying to solve if you can't light a cyno safely at a station, we'll just light them on gates into highsec and onto jump bridges (titan bridged freighters) instead especially us in the cfc because we own all the 0.0 close to jita and lawl if you think that putting displacement zones on gates is going to fly, imagine the gatecamp, 100% safe from hotdrop all this does is bend over non-sov-havers and non-cfc havers so that you can fantasize about endless jf kills
Lol adding a Cyno exclusion zone to gates would make gate camps unkillable?
Really? Being unable to light a Cyno inside the 5km jump zone. Make's you unable to attack the guys that are more than likely all ready sitting OUTSIDE of the jump zone...
Sure Bridge them freighters and slow boat them to the jump range of the gate, see how many times you can do that with out support on had before someone starts dropping on you.
Also i personalty have moved a normal freighter 10 to 15 jumps in low sec with only 4 scouts on multiple occasions.
So I'm 100% sure everything you typed is just useless words you didn't even think about before you sperged them out.
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Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
189
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 06:03:00 -
[377] - Quote
Honestly the changes are okay as they introduce a bit more tactical skills when dropping on a POS and/or jumping into a POS for safety (apart from cyno'ing at 175km and warping down).
However, that being said the days of dropping short range dreads like the Moros is now going to require even more gimped fits. Especially when you factor in the earlier changes to dreads optimal and falloff + the changes to TE/TC. These will struggle to actively engage in a fight on a pos now.
The other issue that needs to be addressed is allowing capitals to stick their baby toe out of the shields and be able to assign fighters, rep, etc. The cyno zone should go both ways for the attacker and defender. A complete rebalance of measuring how a ship is deemed inside/outside of the shields; your ship must be 100% out of the shields (remember each ship has an actual length) before they can lock targets themselves and must be 100% inside the shields before they become unlockable. Fix that and the changes will be fine. --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::------- |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
92
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 07:48:00 -
[378] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:This applies to all cynos, including covert cynos. This is wrong. Why? I dont see any reason for this. And how are we supposed to deal with (super)carriers, assisting fighters from the edge of the field? |
Bluemelon
Oblivion Watch HYDRA RELOADED
81
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 10:46:00 -
[379] - Quote
Think this has been said before but i'll restate it. This change makes hugging forcefield with carriers/supers/titans nearly impossible to punish. For all your 3rd party needs join my ingame channel Blue's 3rd Party!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=365230&find=unread |
Anthar Thebess
702
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 11:15:00 -
[380] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:This applies to all cynos, including covert cynos. This is wrong. Why? I dont see any reason for this. And how are we supposed to deal with (super)carriers, assisting fighters from the edge of the field?
Can similar mechanic can be applied to drone assist? So if you enter this zone , fighters are auto recalled.
Still this is not perfect solution, but it is still better than current possibility to bump every thing from pos , as long as you know how.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6406
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 15:42:00 -
[381] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:get half a dozen nerds doing this and it'll go by fast You dirty blobber.
So basically the pain is reduced with more blues on the job. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1261
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 16:36:00 -
[382] - Quote
How about a boat anchor function can only activate when your ship is granted the immunity from a POS shield? You get a shiny button and you anchor your ship to the tower. It would prevent the bumping without having to go through a bunch of interdiction zone and cyno rules modification. It's not like the function "thou shall not move" does not exist in the game in an applicable way for ships. Then you let the game code decide if a ship is protected or not. Other player will also easyly be able to identify if a ship is protected or not without having to test a bump by trying to target the damn thing. Can't target it, then it's in the "protected" zone and can't be messed wit. Can be targeted? GJ, you found a badly parked ship and it's the ship owner fault for not checking if his anchor function was available or not.
Is this really impossible? |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
145
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 20:25:00 -
[383] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote: Edit - IDK, maybe its easier for them to code if they can just copy/paste for cynos, cyno gens and jump bridges. But I'm not sure "it's easier for CCP to code it" should be the driving force behind a change. If that was the case, just saying "it's an exploit and you WILL be banned" will likely halt those trying to skirt the edge. No coding involved.
Ease of implementation is always going to be a consideration, there's no way around it. If you use up all your dev time doing fixes for old problems in the best, most comprehensive way possible, you have no time left for new features. (Same for vise versa if you only do new content, gotta have a balance.) We also get triaged based on how many people the problem affects -- like it or not people with caps and cynos are a minority of the game population.
The issue with continuing try to regulate it with exploit rules is that they tried it and it didn't work. It's pretty obvious that this doesn't show up well in logs. And for cyno-bumping you run into a very difficult question of who to ban. The cyno player is the only one who definitely intends to set up a bump, the other guys can't see where they're going. But the cyno guy could be a disposable account. Plus it's totally random which supercap gets pushed into the bump, so do you ban one of them or all?
Frostys Virpio wrote:How about a boat anchor function can only activate when your ship is granted the immunity from a POS shield? You get a shiny button and you anchor your ship to the tower. It would prevent the bumping
It would also prevent bumping by people who do have your password, which is one of the bits of the game that most people want to preserve. |
Anthar Thebess
703
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 08:55:00 -
[384] - Quote
"Anchoring ship" within pos shields could be some solution. This would require a lot of work , and creating cyno free zone is probably much easier. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Rim Worlds Protectorate
153
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 12:32:00 -
[385] - Quote
Why not instead of just Changing the Cyno Location.. Force the bumpable ships out of the Shield to Bridge. If these changes are supposed to Force Risk and Conflict, with other ships slowly being moved out from behind a shield like Command ships and stated in the command ship log, Industrial boosters as well. Why not Push the titans and Blops ships that much further out also.
Stop these ships from having a reason to Hug the edge of a shield. Make them Partake in the risk also and move outside of the shield Fully. Put a X range of tower activation range. Will make more roles in active fleets from protecting the titan and create new strategies and remove yet another level of hiding from the Game. If you want risk and conflict.. Push it.. |
Amantus
Snuff Box
349
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 13:01:00 -
[386] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:you're still going on about that flag thing? lol
Good to know you're not the only one who goes on about the flag constantly. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
505
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 17:54:00 -
[387] - Quote
By the looks of this thread "shield hugger bumping" appears to be one of the best forms of pvp null has to offer. If the highlight of your night is A) doing something while hugging a POS shield or B) trying to punish someone doing something while hugging a POS shield - maybe examine what you are doing in the eve universe.
POS shield bumping seems like a rather small slice of eve to have this much hoo haw devoted to it.
They didn't just fix a sploit here, they made eve better. |
Anthar Thebess
703
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 08:24:00 -
[388] - Quote
Can we at the same time get bigger siphon distance from the pos shield?
So we can easily place it outside cyno free zone , and covert cyno hotdrop person that will come to kill this siphon.
At the same time can we get pos structure that will work on pos like MCI ? Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 10:37:00 -
[389] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:And how are we supposed to deal with (super)carriers, assisting fighters from the edge of the field? You do know that it's possible to move your ship without the help of a titan, right?
Bluemelon wrote:Think this has been said before but i'll restate it. This change makes hugging forcefield with carriers/supers/titans nearly impossible to punish. I've killed plenty of force field hugging carriers in w-space. You don't need to use exploits to kill them. |
Anthar Thebess
704
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 11:20:00 -
[390] - Quote
Webs + dps , nothing more needed Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
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