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Amiren
Caldari Balanced Unity
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Posted - 2006.08.05 12:24:00 -
[1]
whenever there is some mighty bug/exploit or heavy unbalance in the game, from which some players are able to have big advantages, CCP has fixed that relatively fast..
One example is Worlds Collide LVL 4, where many people made a lot of money with the Commander Spawn... that was fixed "relatively" fast...
What about that Overseer Structure, that drops Gistii A Type Shield Boosters in Serpentis 3/10 Complexes, that are sold for 150mil per piece at the moment ?
The current scenario: some, not many, maybe only 1 person is sitting at home with 5 computers running 5 eve accounts.. it¦s a chinese person, but in fact that doesn¦t matter of course... every day after downtime he is logging in with his 5 alts, no second after the server is on... doing 5 complexes at the same time, getting an average of 3 gistii sb (450mil) for about 15mins work...(testet on singularity) camps the whole day in these systems, taking out every key that drops.. no chance for "normal" players, even if they log in 1sec after relog...
I am not whining, complex camping is a part of eve at the moment... but people who are doing difficult high level complexes for hours have to do difficult and hard work for their reward... this person who is camping the hole day all serpentis 3/10 complexes earns about 450mil in 15min..
that really hurts, because i love this game and it¦s like someone is cheating it and the devs are looking at this,doing nothing..
so CCP please fix this, i think it should have never come so far.. in my opinion "worlds collide" was by far not as problematic as this complex..
ps: plz excuse my english
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HappyKitten
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.05 12:26:00 -
[2]
Edited by: HappyKitten on 05/08/2006 12:26:39 Chinese macro plexers!
More seriously, I think that all the plexes should drop their respective loot, but have their difficulty hiked (so they can't really be soloed). Also, remove the downtime respawn.
edit: oh, and btw, gistii A-type is NOT that plex's respective loot.
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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.05 12:31:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Amiren I am not whining, complex camping is a part of eve at the moment...
It is, but it shouldn't be. Perhaps complexes should be made like cosmos? You only get one shot at them. Or limited to attempts per month?
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Francesca Dell'Agio
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.05 12:36:00 -
[4]
Serpentis 3/10's, conveniently located in high sec empire and yes, they DO drop the infamous Gisti A-Type mods :-)
Reward without risk for these complexes :P Seriously twisted. All these take is a fast ship, good timing and at times a friend or other account along to bump the competition out of the race to the final level station boss. Ah, oh yes, you have to be able to ***** it straight when the server goes up and every 8 hours on the clock after that.
If one of the usual complex farmers is hoarding it like there's no tomorrow, engage outside the box. Prep intermittent keys for a few days as they do no take 8 hours to respawn, and set up for speed and bumping. Or just nick the key cans as they drop.
But I agree. Complexes in EVE show where the grind is implemented rather wrong these days. Too static, too often unbalanced, and very often completely out of touch with the holy grail of "risk vs reward".
WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.05 12:56:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 05/08/2006 12:56:46 If you are talking about everyshore: you have not the slightest clue. None at all. Im not informed about solitude, but then, there are no 5 complexes in solitude.
The "imbalance" in 3/10 Complexes creates the most exiting PVE environment in game. The problem is that new players somehow feel that they are entitled to them.
1. I know (the names) of all the main complex raiders from everyshore who actually stand a chance at getting the station. None of them is "chinese". Multiple accounts are possible, but that means that you have multiple accounts with HAC capable pilots. Macros might work, but are extremely dangerous.
2. The macro situation (you probably mean those strange SWA pilots in caracals that never whine in local) is a recent situation. They dont stand a chance at anything at all. The only way they ever get to loot is when one of the regular campers misses the spawn by 15-20 minutes, which rarely happens - or by stealing the can. This happens to be a problem because ships fitted to beat other player HACs dont have slots for Scramblers. They might develop into a problem in 6 months when they can all fly HACs reasonably well. Right now they are an annoyance.
3. Your estimations on earning potential are a joke. Really bad joke. 450m in 15minutes ... stop making up things in your head.
4. Neither me nor my complex raider friends would care much if they nerfed 3/10 complexes. The reason for this is simple: Farming those complexes is a huge stress situation - you are actually competing against other players , everyone can come in and do it. One mistake means that miss everything - and a simple alt in a caracal can be enough. I know someone who just recently is on another bad roll - 7 Strongholds over the course of a week - loot totaling 40m. Its much easier to farm certain level 4 mission on 5 accounts then to farm Serpentis 3/10 on 5 accounts. Simply because there is a very low chance that anyone can actually do anything against you in your semi-instanced pve world. Everything is easy and predictable.
5. 3/10 require at least a bit of player skill and attention. Sure, its nothing compared to quake or Counterstrike - but everything in eve is more about enduring the pain and waiting without ending yourself then "real" player skill ;)
Before you decide to post more of those made up quarter-truths and slurs using common cliches - research the situation a bit and understand how it works.
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ROF''''''''''''''''''''L
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2006.08.05 12:58:00 -
[6]
Edited by: ROF''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''L on 05/08/2006 13:00:33 'nother chi-neez eh? seems like there's no more good ol' white people playin' this game no more. chineese durn took all the roids n rats n everythin'.
anyways, gist A-types from a 3/10!
u wont have to worry 'bout them chinese now though. now youve posted that on the forums everyone and his chinese goldfarming slave will be at the 3/10's
Will draw crazy ship for ISK. click here |
Yendri
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Posted - 2006.08.05 13:07:00 -
[7]
I know what I'll be checking out now.... :)
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ROF''''''''''''''''''''L
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2006.08.05 14:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Yendri Edited by: Yendri on 05/08/2006 13:22:40 I know what I'll be checking out now.... :)
meanwhile. given the wonderfully racist commentary above about chinese... I suddenly forsee the mods locking the thread. aww.
sorry, reedited my comment so you can see the sarcasm easier.
Will draw crazy sigs for ISK. click here |
Sean Dillon
Caldari Shadows of the Dead Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.08.05 14:50:00 -
[9]
Gisti small shield booster is a item for small ships and obviously the devs didn't think it would become worth so much. So they just put it into a low end complex.
I dont think anything needs fixing here, there is enough 3/10 complexes of these providing this "low end module" (its small so low end)the demand is just enourmeus thats why you pay such a big price.
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Amiren
Caldari Balanced Unity
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Posted - 2006.08.05 15:09:00 -
[10]
i never said a bad word about chinese people, nor will i ever do... so don¦t get agressive and read the text more carefully plz..
2 days ago i tried to run this complex, but someone else was already camping it... he was a chinese person, he convoed me and told me that he was camping here, and that he had 4 alts at other serp 3/10 stationed... so i shoud not waste my time at trying another one... that was the story..
i also never said a word about the usage of macros btw... but that¦s not the point of the topic i think..
if someone feels offended i am sorry, that was not my intention..
so it seems to be really a very stressy job to do this complexes, if you react in that offensive way.
yes i watched this "complex-running-competition" a few days, tried it myself once and maybe i don¦t have the skill or the nerves to win the "race", but that¦s also not the point..
i ran this complex about 10 times on the testserver, 8 times a gistii sb droped.. at everyshore a guy is selling 10 of that sb on escrow, so PLZ don¦t tell me it¦s ok as it is..
I think it shoud not be possible to earn that much money in empire, and that something needs to be chanced.. that¦s all..
i don¦t mind about complex campers, they can do so 24/7.. must be really funny... but the risk vs reward is highly unbalanced...
that it is a very stressy job and that other players also can get the reward is abolutely no argument, because only the possibilty to earn that much in a 0.7 system counts, no matter who is getting the reward mate...
regards amiren
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HippoKing
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2006.08.05 16:03:00 -
[11]
You could just nerf gistii
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.05 16:33:00 -
[12]
See, the only thing you managed to convey in your post is the (perceived) imbalance between risk and reward of 3/10 complexes. Everything else was utter garbage. Not only did you somehow manage to miss the rather interesting culture of everyshore complex raiders (maybe because it doesnt exist on test servers?), you also managed to make up the reward per hour ratio. The rest of your post contains some strange appeals or whatever that dont have anything to do with the topic.
Example: i just sold a LG snake gamma for 200m - serpentis belt rats in 0.5 systems can drop LG snake gammas. Conclusion - you can make 200m in 30s? Even worse, you can make 200b (!!!) in 30s - just gank someone who is transporting his Cap Recharger II BPO through jita using a t1 frigate - realistic? no. Possible? yes.
The reason i assumed macros is simple - i actually have run the complex under real conditions - good luck doing it with 5 accounts. Even a Cerberus cannot tank the entire last stage without full tanking mods (attacking the station straight away like a real raider would do, the frigates in there are extremely easy and solo-able in a kestrel if you do it "right"). People stopped putting officer mods on their HACs because there is a chance that they lose them when going afk / getting disconnected. Going for the second and third spawn is possible with 5 accounts because you have time to clean the stages. But its possible that a corp of newbs decides to enter the last stage as well, bump you away, and even if you manage to outdamage them, they have stabs and can run away. Not to mention that you have to monitor the other 4 accounts that have similar problems.
I dont mind people articulating their concerns - but this post of yours a pathetic insult to facts.
Your second post has brought another interesting view - you say it should not be possible to make a lot of money in empire - even if it means you have to beat other players and that there a limited amount to be given out: number of complexes x(3 + unscheduled downtimes) Spawns per day distributed among everyone who participates. Maybe, maybe not. If you think 150m is "a lot of money" - you have a problem. I make that on a medicore deal without even undocking. Some people make that per hour. afk hour. Escrow and t2 BPO nerfs may change it - or not. You are in now way guaranteed to see a single booster for days - and the price is demand driven. I actually used to buy them for 40-50m when i started, no joke.
You can discuss this, with facts, not appeals to low emotions. Compare 3/10 complexes with veldspar mining afk hulks (no macros, just fun mini-games or forums), freigher pilots who run NPC trade goods afk (some trade goods had 1-2b profit per day at peak times before they nerfed DT resets - didnt check now since my Freighter pilot is still training), people who farm regular level 4 missions semi-afk with gist X-type fitting and crystal sets etc. For example, i no longer run the complexes - the pilot (alt) who did it for me was training for carriers, not HACs, so its too much hassle to compete with everyone.
By the way, i did notice the strange alts / farmer characters that seem to have invaded everyshore. As i already said, the true lords of everyshore are others - among them several members of GH-SC (if you wonder what they were up to), and someone from Ships and modules discussion who now has sold his character.
I am not attacking you because you discovered my cheat button. My real cheat buttons are at totally different places - where there is no need to race anyone due to its instanced nature. I am attacking you because your post was rubbish. If you want to prove that chinese nonsense, send me his name (and the names of the known alts), and i do some field tests. The claim about ISK per hour was made up, and you know it. 3 boosters in one day even with 5 accounts is extremely rare. About as rare as 1b+ ganks at kisogo gate. Where the 1b+ item survives, and not the cargo expanders
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.05 16:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 05/08/2006 16:42:02 Die word limit, die.
I am not attacking you because you discovered my cheat button. My real cheat buttons are at totally different places - where there is no need to race anyone due to its instanced nature. I am attacking you because your post was rubbish. If you want to prove that chinese nonsense, send me his name (and the names of the known alts), and i do some field tests. The claim about ISK per hour was made up, and you know it. 3 boosters in one day even with 5 accounts is extremely rare (5 accounts = 15 stations per day if noone interferes). About as rare as 1b+ ganks at kisogo gate. Where the 1b+ item survives, and not the cargo expanders.
Nerfing gistii (or just all gist loot) would be interesting indeed.
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HippoKing
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2006.08.05 16:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Nerfing gistii (or just all gist loot) would be interesting indeed.
All gist loot isn't the problem. Just compare the efficiency of gistii a-type to its equivalents in the battleship levels (gist B, C and X types). Also, remember that there is no deadspace frigate armor rep mod available.
You could post some numbers when the servers come back up.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.08.05 16:54:00 -
[15]
57/13 ~ 4.38 HP per cap
versus 269/102 (x-type large, roughly 400m) ~ 2.63 HP per cap
672/204 (x-type XL, 1b+) ~ 3.3 HP per cap
I can see how cerb BPO owners would hate that change though ;)
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.05 17:05:00 -
[16]
I'm confused could someone explain what this hypothetical camper is doing?
How does camping a complex all day long translate into 15 minutes of work?
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HippoKing
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2006.08.05 17:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sorela I'm confused could someone explain what this hypothetical camper is doing?
How does camping a complex all day long translate into 15 minutes of work?
To be honest, I think 0.0 ratting should be nerfed. They make billions per minute, in that one moment where they drag officer loot from a can to their hold. Disgusting.
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.05 18:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Sorela I'm confused could someone explain what this hypothetical camper is doing?
How does camping a complex all day long translate into 15 minutes of work?
To be honest, I think 0.0 ratting should be nerfed. They make billions per minute, in that one moment where they drag officer loot from a can to their hold. Disgusting.
Ahh I see this is one of those new math things isn't it?
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Jaundoriza
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Posted - 2006.08.05 21:31:00 -
[19]
Quote: One example is Worlds Collide LVL 4, where many people made a lot of money with the Commander Spawn... that was fixed "relatively" fast...
So Hippo got the mission nerfed and no more overseer spawn or no more good drops from the overseers?
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HippoKing
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2006.08.05 21:32:00 -
[20]
Edited by: HippoKing on 05/08/2006 21:33:11
Originally by: Jaundoriza
Quote: One example is Worlds Collide LVL 4, where many people made a lot of money with the Commander Spawn... that was fixed "relatively" fast...
So Hippo got the mission nerfed and no more overseer spawn or no more good drops from the overseers?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
edit: that's a yes btw.
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Jaundoriza
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Posted - 2006.08.05 21:52:00 -
[21]
Was that in patch notes or somewhere else?
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HippoKing
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2006.08.05 21:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jaundoriza Was that in patch notes or somewhere else?
It was hotfixed. Not a patch at all.
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Jaundoriza
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Posted - 2006.08.05 22:01:00 -
[23]
How do you know then? Is there a listing of hotfixes or you just heard from people in the know?
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HippoKing
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2006.08.05 22:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jaundoriza How do you know then? Is there a listing of hotfixes or you just heard from people in the know?
It magically changed one day, without a patch. Therefore, it can be surmised it was a hotfix.
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Jaundoriza
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Posted - 2006.08.05 22:08:00 -
[25]
Couldn't that mean you just got bad luck on the spawn then?
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HippoKing
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2006.08.05 22:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jaundoriza Couldn't that mean you just got bad luck on the spawn then?
Presuming everyone else in eve got back luck too, yes. Read the missions forum.
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Jaundoriza
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Posted - 2006.08.05 22:16:00 -
[27]
Don't suppose you might have a link to the thread? I do keep up on the mission forum but I must have missed that one and can't seem to find anything I haven't read already with eve search.
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Kharo Khann
Cosmology
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Posted - 2006.08.05 22:57:00 -
[28]
Just get the stats down for a type A sb, imo they're a bit too good for a lev 3 complex.
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Lorette
Gallente Mythian Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.06 08:42:00 -
[29]
You dont need to be particularily fast in this, after all most areas you have to completely clear of hostiles before you can activate the gates. Although i had one idiot who decided to shoot the 3rd area overseers can (which i wasnt even approaching) which locked both of us out of the last area until that guy respawned.
(although about 3 mins later a deimos appeared who seemed to have a full set free and flew right through and got i assume got the goods).
I just dont bother, in the long run i make way more doing what i normally do.
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Amiren
Caldari Balanced Unity
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Posted - 2006.08.06 08:50:00 -
[30]
@argenton well in some points i maybe have to agree you.. but you can turn the sheet as long as you want, always finding arguments for and against my opinion.. fine for you that you are able to make that much money without docking, but i think 99% of the rest of the community isn¦t.. i will stay at my point, this complex, or let¦s say the reward for it is highly unbalanced compared to the rest of the complex system.. you are able to get a 150mil worth module within 10-15 mins in high sec and plz do not compare it with commander spawns (other poster), that is just stupid.. the chances are xx times better to get that sb than getting a commander spawn, unnecessary to say that he maybe drops nothing wothwhile.. but as i said, in some points you may be right.. in other points i totally disagree with you.. yea maybe it would be a good idea to nerv that sb a little bit, it is defenitly too overpowered for dropping THAT OFTEN in an empire 3/10 complex..
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