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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
157
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Posted - 2014.09.25 18:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Baltec, dude, you know I love you and work hard to keep your megas alive, even in Tengu and Harpy fleets, so lemme just ask you this:
How's this different from POSgunning when a fleet shows up to RF a tower?
The gunner can't be killed. His ship can't be damaged. All he needs to do is safe logoff after the POS goes into RF, and until then, collect any kills he wants.
The dojo can be RF'd. The assets in space can be destroyed. The only thing that can't be a guaranteed 'it's dead, jim', is the pod, because the guys inside aren't there when they're not fighting. So where's the difference between these guys, and the solo POSgunner?
I mean, personally, I see this as a step up from people going to Sisi to duel - people going to Sisi, you can't cause them meaningful harm on Tranq, and they don't even lose any assets. Here, at least it's costing someone money just to do it, right? And you can RF the dojo, even if you can't warp into the deadspace pocket 'inside', so you can screw with their future fights preemptively. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
159
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Posted - 2014.09.25 18:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Fleet incaps guns, fleet is invulnerable to gun damage.
Ok, and how's that different from 'guys aren't shooting back' because they're inside the dojo?
baltec1 wrote: Its a 48 hour timer, the assets will be gone.
No confirmation on that - personally, I'd think when it gets RF'd, you shouldn't be able to extract any assets. It's non-functional at that point, and transferring things in and out is a function.
In addition, how does it get stocked? Do you do it from station, or do you have to take a hauler/carrier out to stock/unstock it? If you have to actually bring the stuff to it, and it's got an anchoring timer (so it can't be stocked immediately), then doesn't that make these things a potential target, and the hauler coming to put stuff into it even more of a target?
And if items can be removed from it during RF via hauler, then doesn't that just make an RF'd dojo cloaky dictor-bait, waiting for the owner to come and try to save his stuff? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
160
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Posted - 2014.09.25 18:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: These are things that have yet to be announced. For now based upon the info we have the only sticking point is the instanced matches.
Right, but functionally, what we're looking at is no different (since the structure can be scanned down) from 'this is a new type of POS where individuals can only target other players inside the forcefield', no? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
160
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Posted - 2014.09.25 19:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote: The owner has to deploy it in space. The owner has to go into space to stock it.
Ok, so that's two points of the 'this thing just screams KILL ME WHEN I SET IT UP' list.
Can items be removed when it's RF'd? Does it have an anchoring timer, allowing people to find them and set up waiting for the owner to come stock it? How much storage space does it have (ie: how often would it have to be restocked, as the more often it needs to be restocked, the riskier it is to deploy one)? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
160
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Posted - 2014.09.25 19:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: As a tool for teaching and running events I like it, it just needs to lose the no messing around with fights mechanic.
But that mechanic's exactly what makes it so useful a tool for teaching: the teacher and student can focus on the lesson being taught, rather than trying to teach while looking over your shoulder all the time. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
162
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Posted - 2014.09.25 19:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: That is the most important lesson in EVE by far. You don't need to be impossible to scan in order to teach people how to fight.
It totally is the most important lesson in EVE. I agree with that 100%. That said, the most important lesson when learning to drive is 'everyone else on the road can **** up, too', but that doesn't mean the first few lessons of every Driver's Ed course don't take place in a controlled environment without other drivers, like a closed course, or a controlled school parking lot. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
163
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Posted - 2014.09.25 19:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: can you get a booster tengu/command ship in them?
Well, if it's 1v1 in frigates, I'd guess the answer is 'no'. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
163
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Posted - 2014.09.25 19:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:My first lesson involved a main road, a bus route and several encounters with 40ft Volvos
And this was in an actual Driver's Ed course that insurance companies give premium discounts for taking, and the State allows as credit toward getting your license a year early?
That must've been a heck of an environment to learn how to get a feel for the clutch in...
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
166
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Posted - 2014.09.25 23:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
X4m wrote: and....can I destroy this structure?
Good job demonstrating you haven't read any of the thread. Yes, the deployable can be killed. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
166
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Posted - 2014.09.26 05:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Give people a safe, easy and instant option to pvp then that is what they will pick. The fewer people out and about the fewer targets you have when roaming which only makes the appeal of instant access to solo pvp all the greater.
Except it's not really safe. Sure, your pod won't get blown up, but most pvp right now doesn't kill pods, either. And it's not that easy for the guy who's got to set the thing up, either.
I'm still waiting to find out if the stuff inside can be pulled once it's RF'd, but the fact that you have to manually stock it from a hauler or carrier means that just putting one of these out there puts more at risk than 1v1 duelling at the sun. |
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
169
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Posted - 2014.09.26 06:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Darth Vokial wrote:This is the dumbest idea in the history of the game. EVE is not the WOW, it is the possibility of free assassination player anywhere in the galaxy and made unialny game content. Do not hammer the final nail in the coffin of EVE!
How's that 'assassinating market alts who never undock in jita' going for you? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
170
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Posted - 2014.09.26 06:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:Arrendis wrote:How's that 'assassinating market alts who never undock in jita' going for you? By constantly undercutting their prices in the form of market PvP that's how...
Amazingly, that's not 'assassinating'. Thanks, and try again. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
172
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Posted - 2014.09.26 16:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote: We definitely need a way to boot people from the CSM at any time, depending on their support of proposed features. This is one such case, where two CSM members have shown to have no understanding of EVE mechanics, purpose, and attraction.
Can we also boot players from the forums for clearly not paying any attention to the responses from other CSMs earlier in the thread before making sweeping judgments and generalizations? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
174
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Posted - 2014.09.26 17:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: You can count on it.
Did you vote for him this time? If not, why should you not voting for him next time, either, have any dire portent attached to it?
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
174
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Posted - 2014.09.26 17:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: If you want to be "safe" from other people, be docked. There should be no exceptions.
Because God knows, when I'm cloaked up, I'm totally not 100% safe while I...
...watch your staging system movements to report intel... ...angle in behind you in the ice belt as a warp-in for a gank fleet... ...creep around nice and safe in the w-space system I scanned out 3 hours earlier to get into position for my buddies to warp in with their brawler Proteii and shred your triaged carrier in the anom you're clearing...
... and a host of other thing. Totally not safe at all.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
174
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Posted - 2014.09.26 17:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Arrendis wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: If you want to be "safe" from other people, be docked. There should be no exceptions.
Because God knows, when I'm cloaked up, I'm totally not 100% safe while I... ...watch your staging system movements to report intel... ...angle in behind you in the ice belt as a warp-in for a gank fleet... ...creep around nice and safe in the w-space system I scanned out 3 hours earlier to get into position for my buddies to warp in with their brawler Proteii and shred your triaged carrier in the anom you're clearing... ... and a host of other thing. Totally not safe at all. Being cloaked is being docked by other means. You can't do jack to anyone while cloaked.
If you think that I'm not doing anything to anyone while I'm arranging for the murder of everything from solo miners to 150-man T3 fleets, please, keep making my job easier, thanks. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
175
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Posted - 2014.09.26 20:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:I do support it only if it is scannable and able to be destroyed. Anything promoting instancing or safety from outside interference is not in the spirit of EVE.
New Eden is a cold, cruel place, as are its denizens, so why should we support something that promotes safety?
The deployable is already scannable and can be RF'd/destroyed, as has been said multiple times in the thread, yes. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
179
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Posted - 2014.09.27 00:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Noriko Mai wrote:All the talk about scannable dojo, reinforce timer, etc... If only one of you would log in on Duality, he/she would see that the "Dojo" is just a mobile depot with the dojo feature attatched to it. It's a prototype of the dojo function. There actualley are exactly zero facts about its stats. It's a freakin mobile depot with huge cargo. Really people.. so mutch shittalk and anger about nothing. But don't let facts interrupt your discussion. (BTW. This is the first real fact since page 32)
True, but as it exists now, those are the facts about its stats. They may change in the future, they may not. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
179
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Posted - 2014.09.27 01:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Those cursed Accords are about as un-EVE as it gets.
Something players build and agree upon between one another is against the spirit of the sandbox? If you don't like B0TLRD, do something about it. Foment unrest. Engage in covert activities designed to undermine them. Claw your way up the ranks in one of the parties to B0TLRD and then tear them to little pieces.
I dunno, seems to me complaining about something someone else has wrought, rather than actively trying to blow it up, is the un-EVE activity.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
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Posted - 2014.09.28 03:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zappity wrote: Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. Supporting B0TLRD while complaining about this is hypocritical in the extreme.
I'm not complaining about this. |
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
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Posted - 2014.09.28 03:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: AT is not part of the sandbox, they are a stand alone event hosted by CCP in space we have no access to using tools have had no access to.
If the AT is not part of the sandbox, if it is truly standalone, then why does winning it give someone the opportunity to take 120b of my ISK if I want to pick up an Etana?
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
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Posted - 2014.09.28 03:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote: But to me blobbing is gimmicky, hell it's far from lacking rules fleets are normalized, fleetcomps are normalized your fc will yell at you if you don't bring the same ship, and it's really gimmicky "follow fleet, press f1" eve combat is deeper than that, blobbers will never experiment it.
You know, a fair number of us who think this dojo idea has potential are also dirty blobbers, and frankly, your oversimplified generalization there is pretty insulting.
Follow fleet, press F1? Really? Maybe for the most slack-jawed of dps pilots, but many of us are doing quite a lot of things in those fights - tackle, defensive dictors, logistics, scouts, etc. And even the basic line battleship pilot should be keeping his eyes on the larger situation, watching local, keeping an occassional eye on d-scans, watching for distant cynos on the overview, and so on.
Eve combat is deeper than 'follow fleet, press f1', even for the aspects of the game with which you clearly have no direct experience.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
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Posted - 2014.09.28 06:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote: That's an extremely and unreasonably narrow view of "part of the sandbox".
No it is an exact fact.
But again, the prize ships come out of it, and they affect the sandbox. Which means the AT affects the sandbox. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
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Posted - 2014.09.28 22:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Bamboozlement wrote: Eve is all about risk vs reward, I'm repeating myself because you elude this part over and over.
And you're arguing for a frankly enormous reduction in the risk of dueling. For no tradeoff, and no drawback.
Well, except that people who want to duel risk-free can do so on Sisi w/no problem, and risk absolutely nothing, because the ships there don't come out of their pockets on TQ. This would provide a system where even 'risk free' duels cost someone money. |
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