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Bertrand Arramor
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.09.28 06:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
When you build or purchase your spreadsheets for your work, what are the things you look for?
How do you prefer things be organized? A single larger page, or multiple tabs for each step of the construction cycle?
Do you prefer API based price pulls, or do you prefer to manually enter price points/
Just some things ive always been interested in, and would love to hear back about. |
CJ Alland
Mighty Industries The Serenity Initiative
4
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Posted - 2014.09.28 14:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
I started eve a year ago not really sure what I wanted to do. I started just messing with the market and got really into Regional Trading.
My spreadsheets focused a lot on automation. I would use my spreadsheet to locate the profit. Place my orders, then when it was filled got it moved to Jita for sale. The images below are of my spreadsheet, there isn't much profit in it anymore.
http://i.gyazo.com/8ca50c7c0b660f4806fe81f0ff3afebe.png
http://i.gyazo.com/4e4e16f6a1899e848ce4fc56531407a8.png
I started by borrowing 1b and once I made my own bill returned the original to the owner and carried on from there. I got myself to 10b in a short time and when the battle of B-R5RB happened I went straight to amarr and bought up as much trit as I could and was paying like 30m to get it moved to Jita for a profit like 150m (For 1b investment). That event made me very rich.
When I was hovering around 20b I started manufacturing and made new spreadsheets for that. At that point Regional Trading had got pretty bad and my manufacturing began to heat up. I was mass producing a lot of stuff and even using friends to sub manufacturing jobs to for keep my production up. I began training alts for that purpose but that's when the industry changes kicked in. Then all my isk making ventures just stopped, profit margins went down the amounts of things you need to calculate to work out all of your costs after the changes made making my own spreadsheet impossible for me at least.
I decided to spend my total of 30b on a character that could do pvp/carrier/logi which is what I wanted to do. since then I've been watching Indy but it's not the same.
CCP kinda ruined my fun there.
=D I know it's not really exactly the question you were asking but meh. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4178
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Posted - 2014.09.28 18:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bertrand Arramor wrote:Do you prefer API based price pulls, or do you prefer to manually enter price points/ Manually.
I didn't know one could do market API pulls. Most people do EVE-Central pulls, which are inaccurate. |
Rumbaldi
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
3
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Posted - 2014.09.29 21:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
I prefer price pulls but most people that do spreadsheet and websites relating to pricing only ever seem to think that jita is the only price point which is a tad annoying. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4181
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Posted - 2014.09.29 21:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rumbaldi wrote:I prefer price pulls but most people that do spreadsheet and websites relating to pricing only ever seem to think that jita is the only price point which is a tad annoying. When Jita sneezes, other markets in New Eden catch pneumonia
[To twist a very old Wall Street saying.] |
Rebecca Leclair
Minerva Shipyards
5
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Posted - 2014.09.29 21:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
When you build or purchase your spreadsheets for your work, what are the things you look for? Automation, clarity, ease of use. I like to have my data entry points (minerals, prices, etc) color coded separately from the ouput.
How do you prefer things be organized? A single larger page, or multiple tabs for each step of the construction cycle? My main .xls has 3 separate sheets. One is for keeping track of monthly corporate expenses and income. The second is the main manufacturing profit calculator, this one includes mineral costs, run time, cost of goods, profit, and monthly income. My third sheet is a simple calculator that draws from the second sheet and tells me how many minerals to buy for a week's worth of continous manufacturing.
Do you prefer API based price pulls, or do you prefer to manually enter price points? API price pulls are convenient, but can often be inaccurate and/or localized to one trade hub. I prefer to enter prices manually, its not too much of a hassle if all your sheets are linked together. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
67
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Posted - 2014.09.29 23:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
I acknowledge my conflict of interest, but because I eat my own dogfood each and every day 2 years running, I feel I must point out that writing a spreadsheet for a problem that has been solved for years is just idiocy. It's simply a two-step process: Research what to build, and then manage your business. If you're writing a spreadsheet to manage your business, you're no better than a troglodyte reinventing the wheel. Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |
Qui Shon
Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
11
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Posted - 2014.09.30 07:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:I acknowledge my conflict of interest, but because I eat my own dogfood each and every day 2 years running, I feel I must point out that writing a spreadsheet for a problem that has been solved for years is just idiocy. It's simply a two-step process: Research what to build, and then manage your business. If you're writing a spreadsheet to manage your business, you're no better than a troglodyte reinventing the wheel.
That's the fun bit though! Figuring things out and making tools based on that. Actually using the tools, i.e. playing the game, just isn't as much fun. Just look at you, you probably spent much more time on making great tools then literally playing the game :)
For those of us not really willing to learn light programming yet the tools needed to be at least theoretically competitive get too complicated for basic spreadsheets, it does diminish the experience.
Despite the name of the corp I'm still in (it died in 2012 while I was unsubbed) I've never built any capitals to sell, just a few for use.
But I had spreadsheets for it Sheet 1 kept track of sleeper site loot stock, need & value, what each site was worth on average, how long the pve took, what non-pve tasks (scanning/defense/attack/hauling) were required and how long they took. Sheet 2 was for mining, (which I did a grand total of once with purpose bought chars), yield of different ship combos, site contents in minerals vs mineral need of certain items. Sheet 3 mineral compression. Sheet 4 POS setup and fuel needs (back when it wasn't just blocks) Sheet 5 Gas reactions and T3 production Sheet 6 was capital construction, which I meant to go into but never did, and now I read that's pointless except in outposts.
Only prices I used and entered manually were minerals and T3/sleeper stuff. Comparing end product prices on so few and low volume items didn't really need any fancy price pulls. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
356
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Posted - 2014.09.30 08:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bertrand Arramor wrote:When you build or purchase your spreadsheets for your work, what are the things you look for?
How do you prefer things be organized? A single larger page, or multiple tabs for each step of the construction cycle?
Do you prefer API based price pulls, or do you prefer to manually enter price points/
Just some things ive always been interested in, and would love to hear back about.
I don't use big spreadsheets anymore. I made one a few years ago that contained all of the numbers for all of the blueprints I had (or could make) and gave me the one big piece of information I needed..... Which item can I make right now that has the biggest profit margin?
But then life got busy and I couldn't maintain it. I recently threw it away.
What I do now is this. I have a fairly good understanding of the market and a good view on which ships and modules I can sell in my nullsec area. With that as a starting point, I use a couple of webtools to get a rough idea of what it will cost to make things that I know I can push in volume. Normally the numbers are inaccurate and incomplete but good enough to make a decision about whether or not to follow up. To get a correct number, I use a calculator to confirm my manufacture cost and then buy all the stuff to make a "run" of something for several months.
So right now, for example, I'm making a certain ship and 2 modules. I bought enough stuff for a "run" of 3 months. What I'll do with that is set up fully fitted ships that use the hull and modules I'm making and then sell them on alliance contracts. Everything I can make in 3 months will sell... eventually... and for a good profit. When I start building up a large inventory I'll start making a different hull and other modules so I can reduce inventory.
Occasionally I get caught holding a bit of inventory with this approach but it's easy to keep track of what you're doing like this and very low-effort in terms the amount of RL time you have to put into it. Profit margins are not "optimal" but they're good enough and it fits in a busy life style where I would rather be spending my time in EVE getting stuff blown up than grinding isk. The best part of all is that you can make isk AND your alliance thanks you for the service :)
T- |
Dwissi
Miners Delight
7
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Posted - 2014.09.30 11:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Bertrand Arramor wrote:Do you prefer API based price pulls, or do you prefer to manually enter price points/ Manually. I didn't know one could do market API pulls. Most people do EVE-Central pulls, which are inaccurate.
Pretty much this - most importantly because of the inaccurate models in eve-central and others. Should i do anything when all 3 things on my ship are fully red? |
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Sheri Angela
15
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Posted - 2014.10.01 03:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have my own web application I wrote for manufacturing. The master screen shows the items I can build along with forecasted average weighted volume and profit per character hour in each market I operate in based on a work period I define. The master screen shows the total number of pooled hours across all toons and units per blueprints per set time for building selected item(s). I select from the master screen how much of each item I want to build which reduces the total hours and blueprint runs available. Asset screen allows me to enter my on-hand inventory for both calculating my P&L and buy orders for materials. Work order screen is a matrix allowing me too manually spread the requested products across the eiligble toons. Market order and line haul screen tells me what to buy and from what market including estimated shipping cost along with destination for material. Retail screen is where I enter what products are available and ready for market for which it tells me where to ship it. Final screen is finacials which is driven by my APIs for pulling wallet and character journal and transactions along with manual entries throughout the application with the sole purpose of telling me my income statement up to the current point in my fiscal year along with P&L.
All in all it helps guide me on what to build, who to use, where to buy, and where to sell while accounting for character hours, blueprints, invention, skills, taxes, contract fees, and shipping expenses. It has holes like how to handle BPCs and cant tell me when a market is being manipulated which is where human reseach comes into play. With all that said I started with spreadsheets in 2007 and have migrated from that to web-based over the years. I think at the mininum taking a shot a doing a lot of it yourself using spreadsheets will give you a lot of satisfaction plus learning to build analytics for your VR mfg or trading empire is something you can put on your RL resume. TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
67
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Posted - 2014.10.01 04:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sheri Angela wrote:I have my own web application
Holy crap you're my hero. I'd be interested in exchanging ideas with you.
Incidentally, where has the like button gone? Maybe my browser's bugged.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
67
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Posted - 2014.10.01 04:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Qui Shon wrote:SJ Astralana wrote:I acknowledge my conflict of interest, but because I eat my own dogfood each and every day 2 years running, I feel I must point out that writing a spreadsheet for a problem that has been solved for years is just idiocy. It's simply a two-step process: Research what to build, and then manage your business. If you're writing a spreadsheet to manage your business, you're no better than a troglodyte reinventing the wheel. That's the fun bit though!
You're right of course. However, the downside is that spreadsheet jockeys get discouraged and quit before they learn how easy it really can be. *****-slapping my competitors with profit-squeezing tactics, price trends and teams only goes so far, and I had a hope to spread a higher-order view in production success. It is so ******* much more than simply looking at today's prices and going shopping and posting one freaking item to market at a time.
And I'd lay odds that there aren't three spreadsheets in all of Eve that integrate teams as well as I do. Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |
Bertrand Arramor
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 04:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
I just fly carriers and research BPOs ATM yo. |
Sheri Angela
15
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Posted - 2014.10.01 10:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sure, I don't mind providing pointers. I'm going to be spending some time this coming weekend building a spreadsheet to proof the new invention process which then I'll work into a coding run over the next couple of weeks. I made sure to stack up a bunch of bpcs over the next month TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here. |
EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
1
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Posted - 2014.10.01 11:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
I started with a spreadsheet but it very quickly became a massive PITA to manage so I ended up writing my own application. |
Dave Stark
7009
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Posted - 2014.10.01 12:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Bertrand Arramor wrote:Do you prefer API based price pulls, or do you prefer to manually enter price points/ Manually. I didn't know one could do market API pulls. Most people do EVE-Central pulls, which are inaccurate.
confirming API pulls leave something to be desired.
like, info on compressed ore prices. |
Leoric Firesword
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Redux
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 16:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
I do multiple tabs in my sheet.
Prices are pulled in via API with a manual override column. Gotta be able to override someone's stupidity.
Currently building a web app like what Sheri has, but playing EVE keeps getting in the way.
What I do have built so far pulls in the following info from API: Wallet/Wallet Transactions Owned BPO's/BPC's, research levels, and runs remaining Skills
What I'm still working on: Pulling in prices from eve-central api (for quick market research) Pulling in manufacturing cost indexes via CREST getting the corp CEO to give me a corp api key so I can get my manufacturing jobs current assets market orders
The final plan is to log into a dashboard showing me what I need to produce to keep my market orders filled and what minerals I need to buy to do just that.
But those darned EVE and FUN things keep getting in the way of me finishing |
Bertrand Arramor
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 17:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Can i have access to this amazing web app?
:) |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
67
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Posted - 2014.10.03 03:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bertrand Arramor wrote:Can i have access to this amazing web app?
:)
Deploying a web app is a non-trivial exercise. You're talking about connection strings, static data, and a hundred other issues involved in replicating an operating environment.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |
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Leoric Firesword
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Redux
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:Bertrand Arramor wrote:Can i have access to this amazing web app?
:) Deploying a web app is a non-trivial exercise. You're talking about connection strings, static data, and a hundred other issues involved in replicating an operating environment.
That all depends. My web application is already being built with multiple users in mind (go go corp mates!) and since I've already got a domain for other things it's going up there.
If I ever get to the point where mine is done I'll post it somewhere up here. |
Selaria Unbertable
POS Mortem Renegades Of Silence
43
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Posted - 2014.10.03 15:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sheri Angela wrote:I have my own web application I wrote for manufacturing. The master screen shows the items I can build along with forecasted average weighted volume and profit per character hour in each market I operate in based on a work period I define. The master screen shows the total number of pooled hours across all toons and units per blueprints per set time for building selected item(s). I select from the master screen how much of each item I want to build which reduces the total hours and blueprint runs available. Asset screen allows me to enter my on-hand inventory for both calculating my P&L and buy orders for materials. Work order screen is a matrix allowing me too manually spread the requested products across the eiligble toons. Market order and line haul screen tells me what to buy and from what market including estimated shipping cost along with destination for material. Retail screen is where I enter what products are available and ready for market for which it tells me where to ship it. Final screen is finacials which is driven by my APIs for pulling wallet and character journal and transactions along with manual entries throughout the application with the sole purpose of telling me my income statement up to the current point in my fiscal year along with P&L.
All in all it helps guide me on what to build, who to use, where to buy, and where to sell while accounting for character hours, blueprints, invention, skills, taxes, contract fees, and shipping expenses. It has holes like how to handle BPCs and cant tell me when a market is being manipulated which is where human reseach comes into play. With all that said I started with spreadsheets in 2007 and have migrated from that to web-based over the years. I think at the mininum taking a shot a doing a lot of it yourself using spreadsheets will give you a lot of satisfaction plus learning to build analytics for your VR mfg or trading empire is something you can put on your RL resume.
Almost the same here. I even wrote my own API calls to get everything I need. I got an overview of running jobs, transactions, buy/sell orders and some statistics. Currently working on a job planner to create shopping lists for production. Lots of work, considering that I in the last months, I did more programming than actual playing, but in the long run, it will certainly pay off. |
Sheri Angela
18
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Posted - 2014.10.03 20:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
My web app isn't multi-user capable and don't plan on making it so. I don't want to end up being a service provider with real infrastructure and platform costs and no real income to offset. It is however a defined stack that I kick off using Amazon Cloud Formation so in theory I could just hand the stack off to others to use and manage, but don't want to turn over the code base. TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here. |
Sheri Angela
18
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Posted - 2014.10.03 20:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
@Seleria
It's actually good for the resume since it demonstrates skill sets and initiative so yes long run it can help out in RL. TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
67
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Posted - 2014.10.04 00:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Leoric Firesword wrote:SJ Astralana wrote:
Deploying a web app is a non-trivial exercise. You're talking about connection strings, static data, and a hundred other issues involved in replicating an operating environment.
That all depends. My web application is already being built with multiple users in mind (go go corp mates!) and since I've already got a domain for other things it's going up there. If I ever get to the point where mine is done I'll post it somewhere up here.
Anyone can right-click-deploy. Multi-user scenarios are fairly trivial as it's scaffolded by virtually every framework. The issue isn't the first deployment -- it's replicating change from dev to prod environments, and cost of the infrastructure to support the app, which if you have any real traffic means real costs. With Crius, the bandwidth needed to have current crest data is significant, so cacheing becomes critical, and cacheing is hard. If change were easy, Eve IPH would be available. Changes to static data means implementing a migration of the diff to all deployed instances, not to mention automating schema changes.
I do this for a living, and for fun, and anyone, glassy-eyed end user or rose-glasses dev who says it's easy is misinformed.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager |
Selaria Unbertable
POS Mortem Renegades Of Silence
43
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 12:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sheri Angela wrote:@Seleria
It's actually good for the resume since it demonstrates skill sets and initiative so yes long run it can help out in RL.
That's true, although it will certainly take a few more months until I reach a point where I can think about publishing it. There's still too much work to be done (well, there always is). |
Sheri Angela
18
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Posted - 2014.10.04 13:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
@SJ Astralana
This is off topic, but yes change management can be challenging and costly depending on the level you go to. One of the reasons I like AWS is due to all the tools I can use to create dev, test, cert, and prod environments as needed. If you haven't used it before check it out, but learning curve can be steep. TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here. |
Jalebi
Economic Stimulus Corp
33
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Posted - 2014.10.04 13:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
This thread has enough examples of people doing an unnecessary amount of work to give themselves the illusion of streamlined or optimized production.
The only API pulls I use are of mineral and compressed ore prices to help me determine which compressed ores are the best value. I use Qoi's sheet to figure out what minerals/compressed ores I need to buy. I use a relatively simple table where I manually input what ores I've bought, as well as the average price I bought them at, to figure out what more I need to buy and to determine a pricing point for the items I produce with those ores.
I've made a mint without putting in too much back-end work. I don't see the point of super fancy or complicated spreadsheets/web apps/etc, but then again industry isn't my end game. |
Sheri Angela
18
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Posted - 2014.10.04 14:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
@Jalebi
If you're goal is to squeeze a respectable profit then yes this is overkill, but then again there can be a huge gap on what you mean by "mint" with some folks being happy just being Targets while others want to be Wal-mart. Comes back to the whole question of what rich means to you in regards to a game. I do it personally as a practical environment for applying new things I learn for my RL gig which pays a mint:). TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here. |
EMT Holding
EMT Holding Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 14:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jalebi wrote:This thread has enough examples of people doing an unnecessary amount of work to give themselves the illusion of streamlined or optimized production.
The only API pulls I use are of mineral and compressed ore prices to help me determine which compressed ores are the best value. I use Qoi's sheet to figure out what minerals/compressed ores I need to buy. I use a relatively simple table where I manually input what ores I've bought, as well as the average price I bought them at, to figure out what more I need to buy and to determine a pricing point for the items I produce with those ores.
I've made a mint without putting in too much back-end work. I don't see the point of super fancy or complicated spreadsheets/web apps/etc, but then again industry isn't my end game. Start looking at T2 production and you'll see why there are so many putting all this effort in. There's very little to think about and consider with T1. |
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