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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
230
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 22:54:00 -
[151] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:There are, absolutely, a lot of people who hide behind excuses.
That sounds quite possible. Assumptions can be flawed though.
That someone may give an excuse for doing something, where the real motivation differs from what is communicated, does not mean they are hiding. The very word itself is loaded with emotional connotations. Perhaps someone just wants to conceal the truth from you, for some valid reason.
Is that hiding behind an excuse? I'd call that being sneaky.
Personally, I just have fun in a game though |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10336
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 23:08:00 -
[152] - Quote
It is actually definitely the case. EVE ONLINE, by it's very nature, pushes this possibility into a definite.
Also....
Someone who conceals his true motivation is still hiding it from others... ... and being sneaky about something usually differs in motivation.
Sneakyness most often involves a secret of some sort, which is not the same as hiding behind excuses ... ... or concealing the true intent of an action or behaviour.
I would say that you are one of those we are talking about. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread Please send Dave Stark a mail and tell him that Sol said Hi! Thanks! |
Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
231
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Posted - 2014.10.03 23:41:00 -
[153] - Quote
I reffered to emotional connotations. Suggesting that someone is hiding behind an excuse gives the impression that they are in some way a coward, scared of the judgements of those around them. Now this might be true of some people, but I think it's a poor choice of words for making a generalisation.
Are they really a coward? Maybe they just like to roleplay, for fun? Perhaps they enjoy killboard statistics? Maybe it's all about the isk?
I mean, I can accept if someone has respect only for unapologetic ganking. That is their prerogative. But to dismiss other justifications as unworthy, and imply that people might be cowardly for what they do is something I find highly amusing! |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10336
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 23:50:00 -
[154] - Quote
Ah, yes, I see what you are hinting at.
It don't see, though, that hiding the turth necessarily does make one a coward. In the case of EVE and suicide ganking, it rather makes people assholes.
Roleplaying has the top spot as excuse, btw, but these people are extremely easy to spot anyway.
And again I need to add that "just so, for fun" does not exist as an honest reason for literally anything. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread Please send Dave Stark a mail and tell him that Sol said Hi! Thanks! |
Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
231
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 00:08:00 -
[155] - Quote
Suicide gank, because it's something fun to do, for any number of reasons that the game allows. Do a bit of light-hearted roleplaying if you want. The game will allow that too. It's not immoral to have fun in a game, if you don't cross certain boundaries.
If you don't want to do those things then don't. If you want to put people down for doing those things, then don't be surprised if they show disregard for your putdowns.
Just a fun game |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10336
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 00:10:00 -
[156] - Quote
Not really connected to my post. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread Please send Dave Stark a mail and tell him that Sol said Hi! Thanks! |
Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
231
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 00:11:00 -
[157] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Not really connected to my post.
Your post made no sense to me at all. I'm done here btw. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10337
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 00:21:00 -
[158] - Quote
Figures. You're more on a personal, "individual" level, showing also the assumption of the existence of free will.
"Doing something for fun" is no honest reason either. "Fun" is too relative to work as reason for "Why" someone does something. "I do it for fun" is a superficial explanation, which does not really tell anything about the intentions or reasons "Why" something is fun for someone.
I'm off too. Need sleep. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread Please send Dave Stark a mail and tell him that Sol said Hi! Thanks! |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1533
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 00:32:00 -
[159] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:"Doing something for fun" is no honest reason either. This is your brain on not-CODE. Witty Image - Stream Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
775
|
Posted - 2014.10.04 11:48:00 -
[160] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Meh ... not happy with this new portrait.
It's true, there's something off. :( seems a little on the Neytiri side of things. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon |
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Wolf Incaelum
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2014.10.04 17:58:00 -
[161] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Profitablitiy. It doesn't really matter to me.
What matters is to kill them out of the blue .............. So you would gank empty shuttles just because? No. I do not do things "just because". I never have and the universe does not work that way anyway. There is not a single being in existence that does things "just because". "Just because" usually either means that someone does not want to bother telling the reason, does not want to tell the reason or does not know the reason. Causality......... it's weird, right? "Out of the blue" means that I engaged "by surprise" or "without them seeing it coming". So what do you get out of popping an empty shuttle?
Extortion, my good friend. Extortion. Convo the target and say something to the effect of "pay me or die". Now, since it's a shuttle the pilot will likely be willing to take the loss. However, they might have some nice implants that they don't want to lose. If that's the case, negotiations will begin. After negotiations have ended and business is concluded, you kill them anyway. ...Ok, maybe you don't kill them. You never know if you might want to extort them again. Lol. |
Dwissi
Miners Delight
21
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:44:00 -
[162] - Quote
I miss the most important part in the OP - the economical aspect as a producer of ships. Ganks become a complete different value then - i dont really calculate the value of destruction needed because i profit from both participants. Should i do anything when all 3 things on my ship are fully red?
My thanks to all Eve players for the continued forums drama - i had no idea how much i missed it while i was away :) |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
150
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 12:36:00 -
[163] - Quote
Dwissi wrote:I miss the most important part in the OP - the economical aspect as a producer of ships. Ganks become a complete different value then - i dont really calculate the value of destruction needed because i profit from both participants.
Nonsense. What is the increase in demand per ship ganked? Maybe 0.1 ships demanded for each ganked? And what fraction of the market do you control? Calculate your marginal profit per gank and you will realize how absurd that angle is. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10003
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 12:40:00 -
[164] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:What is the increase in demand per ship ganked?
For the most part, 1 to 1. They lost one ship, they need one ship. The only variance is that they may buy a different ship or stop the activity that got them ganked, but that's an outlier.
Quote: And what fraction of the market do you control?
It's not about the entire thing, you pusillanimous imbecile.
It's about what you control *near* the gank area. If I am the only person who sells Procurers, Retrievers and mining lasers in Teonusude, then I benefit directly from every ganked ship, since most people would rather eat a ten percent markup if it's right in system. If I am one of two people, then I benefit on about a 50/50 scale. That is incredibly beneficial.
Quote: Calculate your marginal profit per gank and you will realize how absurd that angle is.
The people who actually bother to do the math are the ones helping to fund the ganking. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
150
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 12:52:00 -
[165] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:What is the increase in demand per ship ganked? For the most part, 1 to 1. They lost one ship, they need one ship. The only variance is that they may buy a different ship or stop the activity that got them ganked, but that's an outlier. Quote: And what fraction of the market do you control? It's not about the entire thing, you pusillanimous imbecile. It's about what you control *near* the gank area. If I am the only person who sells Procurers, Retrievers and mining lasers in Teonusude, then I benefit directly from every ganked ship, since most people would rather eat a ten percent markup if it's right in system. If I am one of two people, then I benefit on about a 50/50 scale. That is incredibly beneficial. Quote: Calculate your marginal profit per gank and you will realize how absurd that angle is.
The people who actually bother to do the math are the ones helping to fund the ganking.
You must be kidding me. There is no way there is a 1-1 correlation for ganks and ships purchased. Many victims give up the occupation or leave the game entirely. Many others cannot afford to replace the ship. Local monopolies are of little value when the guy can just go to jita and buy it for cheap. Good luck extracting economic rent based on avoiding a 20 minute Jita. The idea that masses of gank victims are going to go next door to replace their losses at a significant markup is nothing shy of delusional. The people who support ganking are those looking for entertainment and tears. How many of the top CODE shareholders are ship manufacturers of repute? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10003
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:01:00 -
[166] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: You must be kidding me. There is no way there is a 1-1 correlation for ganks and ships purchased. Many victims give up the occupation or leave the game entirely.
Citation needed.
Quote: Many others cannot afford to replace the ship.
Ten million is not really asking that much. Even mining pays well enough to replace Retrievers and mining lasers now and then.
Quote: Local monopolies are of little value when the guy can just go to jita and buy it for cheap. Good luck extracting economic rent based on avoiding a 20 minute Jita. The idea that masses of gank victims are going to go next door to replace their losses at a significant markup is nothing shy of delusional.
My wallet disagrees. Aside from scamming, implants and POS fuel(and my God, the fuel market sucks so much), that's how I make my money.
Quote: The people who support ganking are those looking for entertainment and tears.
That's why I do it, certainly, and while I'm not alone, you can't paint us all with that brush. The economic incentive to me is secondary to seeing people I dislike get blown up.
Quote: How many of the top CODE shareholders are ship manufacturers of repute?
Name me a few "ship manufacturers of repute", why not.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5646
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:09:00 -
[167] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The people who support ganking are those looking for entertainment
My god. How Horrible! People looking for entertainment out of a Game.
This. Must. Be. Stopped! "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
150
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:15:00 -
[168] - Quote
1. People frequently come on the forums and explain that they are leaving eve because of out of control suicide ganking. It's also an extremely rational economic response to stop mining if you get ganked. It surely drives many into nullsec alliances for better protection. And few purchase permits, as people don't like giving in to extortion.
2. Look at the top 7 shareholders of CODE
1. Isk Doubler 2. Unclear, but not in a manufacturing Corp 3. Market Manipulator 4. Character Bazzar participant 5. Biomassed 6. Miner (or at least trolling about being one) 7. Suicide Ganker
Number of people from manufacturing corps? 0.
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Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10627
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:19:00 -
[169] - Quote
Please note that when CCP states that suicide ganking is on an all time low ... ... it is obviously out of control and CCP are just delusional about their data.
lol at all the scrubs at both sides of the ganking equation.
*kinks* I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10003
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:21:00 -
[170] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:1. People frequently come on the forums and explain that they are leaving eve because of out of control suicide ganking.
Citation needed.
Quote: It's also an extremely rational economic response to stop mining if you get ganked.
It's an extremely rational response, period, to not mine. Idk about anyone else here, but my $15 a month does not get paid for me to be perpetually bored.
Quote: Number of people from manufacturing corps? 0.
Today I learned that alts don't exist.
Try harder, Veers. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5582
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:31:00 -
[171] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:1. People frequently come on the forums and explain that they are leaving eve because of out of control suicide ganking. It's also an extremely rational economic response to stop mining if you get ganked. It surely drives many into nullsec alliances for better protection. And few purchase permits, as people don't like giving in to extortion.
no, people consistently have their preconceived notions about the game shattered in hilariously expensive (and trivially avoidable) explosions and then bravely stop undocking and spent the next week or so whinging at ccp from the safety of the station (in highsec) to changing the game to fit those notions, using their eleventytwelvehundred subs (that they plex) as blackmail. we then proceed to troll the entitled gits until either they grow a pair or their sub runs out =]I[= |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10628
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:36:00 -
[172] - Quote
I clicked "show Alliance" but it doesn't show. I'm a sexy calmil girl now and everyone should know ......
So blue, so blue.... shoobedoobedoooo..... I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
501
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:47:00 -
[173] - Quote
Is this still going on? Good lord people, the profitability of ganking is purely subjective. Having an Internet forum debate about how to measure it is like getting into an argument about why blue is your favorite color, how that makes it the best color, and bringing "facts" to the table to back up your assertions.
Gankers gonna gank, haters gonna hate. That's all you need to know. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
501
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 13:52:00 -
[174] - Quote
BTW Sol, yer new avatar is hawt. Rawr.... CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Dwissi
Miners Delight
22
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 15:43:00 -
[175] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Dwissi wrote:I miss the most important part in the OP - the economical aspect as a producer of ships. Ganks become a complete different value then - i dont really calculate the value of destruction needed because i profit from both participants. Nonsense. What is the increase in demand per ship ganked? Maybe 0.1 ships demanded for each ganked? And what fraction of the market do you control? Calculate your marginal profit per gank and you will realize how absurd that angle is.
Applying only your personal logic to someone elses action is indeed nonsense - next please. Should i do anything when all 3 things on my ship are fully red?
My thanks to all Eve players for the continued forums drama - i had no idea how much i missed it while i was away :) |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10644
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 15:46:00 -
[176] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:BTW Sol, yer new avatar is hawt. Rawr.... *kinks* (:
Thank you, kind sir!
Would you like to request a full list of features? :) I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13560
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 15:48:00 -
[177] - Quote
Generally you look at the cargo. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
503
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 16:59:00 -
[178] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:*kinks* (:
Thank you, kind sir!
Would you like to request a full list of features? :) Thanks, but no. Occasional online flattery is my limit of such things. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
147
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 17:39:00 -
[179] - Quote
Profiwhat? |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
152
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:46:00 -
[180] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Generally you look at the cargo.
You are soooooooooo old fashioned man....time to retire.
The new meta is to blow up empty ships and concoct incredibly unlikely reasons why this is somehow profitable. Time to embrace the new age. |
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