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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2139
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm totally stoked for these changes.
The "I quit" posts in this thread are glorious. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2140
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aryndel Vyst wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:I'm totally stoked for these changes.
The "I quit" posts in this thread are glorious. A real change of pace from the mission text you're used to seeing from SoE missions I suppose. Never ran a level 4 in my life. Why are you always so mad, bro? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2140
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
DaiTengu wrote:Man this thread is full of people who never took 80 gate jumps in a battleship only to be DD'd by a titan when they arrived at their destination. So don't go 80 jumps? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2147
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aryndel Vyst wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Aryndel Vyst wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:I'm totally stoked for these changes.
The "I quit" posts in this thread are glorious. A real change of pace from the mission text you're used to seeing from SoE missions I suppose. Never ran a level 4 in my life. Why are you always so mad, bro? Yea, as you can tell by that text I'm just so seething about random Joe Q MoA Pubbie. Given how you seem prone to insults, that's exactly what it looks like, yes.
Note how all of my posts at least try to maintain an air of civility. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2149
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Posted - 2014.10.02 05:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Onictus wrote:^^
Its way more than 5 ly from X-7 to anything resmeblind low sec.
......and if I was flying a Mordus tag I would want to have to mid in CFC territorry.
Said no-one ever. Not that it matters, but this statement is factually wrong for both x-7 and 5zxx.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Anshar,0/5ZXX-K http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Anshar,0/X-7OMU
You can easily hit northern lonetrek from npc pure blind in a single jump of less than 5 LY.
I see quite a few complaining about the difficulty in logistics. And they are correct, logistics WILL be harder. At first.
But ask yourself, how much do you need to import from jita? Any region of nullsec can be fully self sufficient when it comes to T1 production. Need to fuel towers? Use matching towers for the correct isotope types within your region.
All you need to import are fuel for off-racial capitals and t2 mats. Everything else can be sourced locally. Yes, you will have to expand your industrial and mining operations. But that isn't a bad thing. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2151
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Posted - 2014.10.02 07:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Caius Sivaris wrote:
No place in eve is more than 6 or 7 jumps from Empire. If you're too dumb to probe a chain, you don't deserve nullspace.
Its not us that will have issues with this its the smaller alliances/corps that we are wanting to come out to null when CCP gets around to removing all of our dead systems. The outer sections of null space will wind up abandoned. Baltec, your concern for the plight of the little guy is, as always, touching. Really brings a tear to my eye. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2151
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Posted - 2014.10.02 08:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mark Hadden wrote:baltec1 wrote:I thought it was put in so the grr goon mob can celebrate for a while then kick up a stink when they realise we adapted to the change before it even hit tranq. why are you cryig a river then? Let me guess, you're just worrying about other, non-goon players, right? It's true. His concern and philanthropy are known far and wide. We of the grr goon mob always find his posting inspirational. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2151
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Posted - 2014.10.02 08:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mark Hadden wrote:baltec1 wrote:I thought it was put in so the grr goon mob can celebrate for a while then kick up a stink when they realise we adapted to the change before it even hit tranq. why are you cryig a river then? Let me guess, you're just worrying about other, non-goon players, right? You use these words but you don't know what they mean. Nerfing JF logistics hurts the smaller guys more than the big ones as we have both the manpower and the isk to absorb the problems. Everything hurts the smaller guys more than the big ones as you have both the manpower and the isk to absorb any problems better than they do. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2161
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Posted - 2014.10.02 08:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: Everything hurts the smaller guys more than the big ones as you have both the manpower and the isk to absorb any problems better than they do.
So how is this nerf to logistics a good thing then? Because Eve has stagnated to ridiculous levels, so much so that subs are being lost and CCP is actually doing something.
I don't know what these changes, including the medium and long term changes alluded to in the dev blog, will do for Eve. Maybe they'll help, maybe they wont.
But, I do know that if nothing is done, eve will continue suffer as a result of this stagnation, perhaps terminally. So I'm ready to adapt to this next set of challenges. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2163
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Posted - 2014.10.02 09:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Selexid wrote:
Well if someone is attacking a cap defended system with caps of their own, they might have subcap support and even scouts on the other side....... Gezuz man.
Tell you what.. after this change go and attack Deklein and tell me how it s goes :) Go and attack Deklein before this change and tell me how it goes :) |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2166
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Posted - 2014.10.02 09:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Selexid wrote:
Well if someone is attacking a cap defended system with caps of their own, they might have subcap support and even scouts on the other side....... Gezuz man.
Tell you what.. after this change go and attack Deklein and tell me how it s goes :) Go and attack Deklein before this change and tell me how it goes :) The same, the only difference is right now it that it wont days to get into position were as after it will So....what your saying is nothing at all will change and your original statement about attacking deklein as an example really has no merit?
See, here's the thing: it's examples like these which illustrate why we need this change. You say no one will attack deklein after these changes. Well, guess what? No one's attacking deklein now either. So that argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.
As the dev blog said, this is the first part of a multi-step approach to fixing sov. I'm willing to see where it goes, simply because that path, the path where at least we have to adapt to something, is preferable to the utter stagnation we have now. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
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Posted - 2014.10.02 18:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kat Ayclism wrote:With the changes to movement there's something else that needs looked at a bit more closely
Anchorable Bubbles
The cost on them is quite low, the only require maintenance if killed off, and they are quite hellacios for capitals with low mobility to get out of.
Rather than suggest a capital MJU or something silly, I'd like to suggest that anchorable bubbles be tweaked to require some amount of maintenance.
Be that fueling them as with POSes or with redeploying them as one currently does with the mobile depots/mobile cyno jammers/etc...
The amount of safety that set-it-and-forget-it anchorable bubbles provide in an environment of much lower mobility is completely out of skew. So make it something that requires maintenance and actively being in that area to some amount in order to disrupt movement. This introduces an amount of risk as you may get caught out while maintaining your bubbles and it means you're in the area so you may draw someone hunting you after going all "grr bubbles." This also prevents a single person from creating a highly disruptive bubble path- it does not stop a focused entity from doing it though, and actually makes it more rewarding to have people focused on disruptive behavior, which opens up a lot of tactical gameplay.
A period of 30min or so would put them as a good option in comparison to dictors, while still leaving dictors with their uniquely disruptive capabilites. This is a good idea. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
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Posted - 2014.10.03 01:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nazri al Mahdi wrote: Even if JF were only 7.5ly we could still go around using the old Titan route, which is only like 12-14 jumps. I already have the full chain (howdy neighbor!). But 5 ly makes it 28 jumps and impossible with jump fatigue. There is no way I am working 40 hours a week at EVE - I cannot do that.... and live.
What stops you from using blops + blockade runner buddies + covert cyno alts to get anything you need, anywhere you need it?
The only thing you need to import are t2 mats and fuel that isn't native to your region. Both of those things trivially fit in a blockade runner, and the blops can bridge them at 7+ LY with reduced fatigues to perfectly safe covert cynos.
Look, 1 blops + 10 blockade runners = half a jump freighter worth of cargo that doesn't need to use station midpoints and operates with perfect safety. Produce all of the T1 mats locally, and this solves ALL of your problems. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rarnak Ki wrote: We are already using our maximum time in this game doing these things and 90% of that is spent hauling. ... Instead they are just going to abstain from engaging in that type of play altogether.
So don't haul. Get some indy dudes to build your ships in your home regions. Use whatever ice is native to your region to fuel your towers.
Their are 2 things you need to import: T2 mats and non-native fuel for your caps (not towers, those you switch to match your regional isotopes). Both of those things are trivially imported via blops + blockade runners. Or, if your alliance is huge, god forbid you do a freighter op. A couple of freighters filled with nothing t2 mats will tide you over for a long time.
The whole point of these changes is that you can't meet 100% of your needs via Jita logistics. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:
Look, 1 blops + 10 blockade runners = half a jump freighter worth of cargo that doesn't need to use station midpoints and operates with perfect safety. Produce all of the T1 mats locally, and this solves ALL of your problems.
Quick math test: how many blockade runners do I need and for how long per week to run 1 million m3 to null. You can call me a liar all you want, but that is my transport need, regardless of the arguments you want to make about it. And I'm just a small corp. EDIT: we already mine like crazy. Why the f*ck do you NEED to move 1 million m3 to null, per week?
By m3, t2 mats represent a tiny portion of any build. Take the Golem for example, requires a sh*t ton of mats to build, but only ~3000 m3 worth of t2 mats. Each blockade runner can carry enough T2 materials to build 3 T2 Battleships with room to spare.
Fuel blocks for towers? Use the ice from your local ice belts. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote: You are simply showing that you have no understanding of how people actually use towers in this game. Towers like ships have different bonuses per race. Breaking things down to "use the tower you have local fuel for" kills what is actually good complexity.
The interconnected nature of the Eve economy is one of the most amazing features of this game and one of the few areas where the "butterfly effect" really comes in to play. The links need to remain strong. Period.
A bloo hoo hoo, my towers are a bit sub optimal for the given task, oh won't someone think of my isk/hour!
And no complexity is removed. Don't like the native ice type in your region? Deal with it, or move to a region that has the ice you want. Maybe an area of space that borders 2 regions with different topes.
If anything, this change adds a load of strategic complexity to the game. Now we have more than true-sec, distance to jita, and moon goo to go on for deciding where to live. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rudina wrote:Surely it shouldn't take one guy and his carrier literally all day to pick up his shiny new battleship from an adjacent lowsec region?
Why doesn't he have his shiny new battleship built in his home system? Even the shiniest of battleships only need ~3000 m3 worth of T2 mats and a bpc. Everything else can be sourced locally. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
smokeydapot wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Nazri al Mahdi wrote:You can call me a liar all you want, but that is my transport need, regardless of the arguments you want to make about it. And I'm just a small corp.
EDIT: we already mine like crazy. Why the f*ck do you NEED to move 1 million m3 to null, per week? By m3, t2 mats represent a tiny portion of any build. Take the Golem for example, requires a sh*t ton of mats to build, but only ~3000 m3 worth of t2 mats. Each blockade runner can carry enough T2 materials to build 3 T2 Battleships with room to spare. Fuel blocks for towers? Use the ice from your local ice belts. I'm sure that would be an option to use local ice for towers if they wasn't in more need of attention than jump drives. POS balancing would be much higher on my list than this idea. Eh, you can import enough fuel via blops+blockade runner (or god forbid a freighter op if you're one of the larger entities) to provide for modest use of your off racial caps.
The fact that getting off-racial fuel for a given region will be harder is honestly much more of an upside than a downside imo. Good luck dropping archons on everything that moves if there's no Amarr ice in your home region. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 02:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rudina wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Rudina wrote:Surely it shouldn't take one guy and his carrier literally all day to pick up his shiny new battleship from an adjacent lowsec region?
Why doesn't he have his shiny new battleship built in his home system? Even the shiniest of battleships only need ~3000 m3 worth of T2 mats and a bpc. Everything else can be sourced locally. He could but maybe he's a new player or a solo player without the 3 months of skills required to build it Put bluntly, a lone new player has no business being in sov-nullsec. He should get with a corp. In a corp, not having a dude or two with a completed 3 month train is not an excuse. One of his corpies should be able to build it for him. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 02:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fellsworn wrote: It's just a 1 step process to decide to not sub anymore for some people.
Those "some people" have stuff, yes? Give it to people that can adapt?
Seriously, Eve is about adapting. I'm excited to have to adapt to new challenges. It's been far too long since that happened for the community at large. |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2171
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rudina wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: Put bluntly, a lone new player has no business being in sov-nullsec. He should get with a corp. In a corp, not having a dude or two with a completed 3 month train is not an excuse.
So what you're saying is solo play is not allowed, what happened to the sandbox? Since when has a solo player ever had a good time in Sov? How the f*ck did this hypothetical new player even get sov, solo no less? For that matter, how is this "new player" paying for a "shiny" battleship. Put down the kool aid man.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2172
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Here's your original post::
Rudina wrote: As far as I can work out we need 5, one of which is borderline.
Again though if you can stop grr gooning for a minute, what about the fact that it would take literally 4 hours to cross 2 loaded regions? What about the fact that caps can only cover ~1/2 of most regions including syndicate and stain? Surely cap pvp within your home region should be possible? Surely it shouldn't take one guy and his carrier literally all day to pick up his shiny new battleship from an adjacent lowsec region?
Its simply not shitting to hard on individual quality of life I'm suggesting.
Here's the relvant bit:
Quote: Surely it shouldn't take one guy and his carrier literally all day to pick up his shiny new battleship from an adjacent lowsec region? Now explain to me what a "new guy" is doing with a carrier? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2173
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:The problem with the JF nerf is that it is being nerfed with a pricetag in money and hours of boredom. The former is fine, the latter is unforgivable for what is supposed to be a GAME.
Every minute I spend jumping around safely in a freighter is a minute I can't spend on precious pew. Explain to me why any logistics pilot should play EVE after this patch. Well, for starters, the new mechanics pretty much force you to do less logistics, or you get ridiculous fatigue. This means either your organization adapts to lower the burden on your logi pilots (say, by only importing T2 mats and a bit of non-regional fuel) or it adapts by spreading the logi load, sharing the burden as it where.
Either way, the individual logistics pilot does less logistics. If (as you say) the logi pilot is fond of pew, this gives him more time to pew the pew. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2173
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Posted - 2014.10.03 02:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aloh wrote:CCP why are you working so hard at keeping me from playing the game?
Aloh, with these changes, there'd be a much larger focus on industry in nullsec. You wouldn't be hauling, you'd be building.
Say you want to build a marauder: you only need to import ~3000m3 of T2 mats. That's a cakewalk compared to hauling the entire marauder from Jita, now. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2185
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Posted - 2014.10.03 06:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
250 pages yay \o/ |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2185
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Posted - 2014.10.03 06:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
I just want to say that many of us appreciate the efforts of CCP to rebalance the game and fix power projection. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2186
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Posted - 2014.10.03 06:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote: If your dreads are already spoken for, would you mind sending your isk to this character?
Seeing as you wont be needing it, might as well put it to some use, right? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2191
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ah...that explains it. I was wondering why Baltec & friends where so adamantly opposed to these changes, even while other notable goons (e.g. Endie's post on reddit) seemed in favor.
While it is true that the CFC holds hundreds upon hundreds of money moons, the truth is that those make up a rather small portion of their overall pos holdings. Moon goo is not what it once was. The number of regular pos's in CFC space, operated by CFC dudes almost certainly numbers in the thousands.
Think of it, thousands upon thousands of towers crying "feed me! feed me!" And the only way to get fuel to those towers is by 5 light year JF. With fatigue. Oh, it will be positively glorious.
It is true that these changes will hurt the little guy, but here's something that defies malcanis' law. You see, pos ownership does not increase linearly with entity size. It is not proportionate. It is not linear. No my friends, some of the bigger entities have far more than their equal share of towers.
JF's allow a small cadre to manage a disproportionately large number of towers. A nerf to JF's is a dagger aimed straight at the heart of CFC logistics.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2192
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lord TGR wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Ah...that explains it. I was wondering why Baltec & friends where so adamantly opposed to these changes, even while other notable goons (e.g. Endie's post on reddit) seemed in favor. While it is true that the CFC holds hundreds upon hundreds of money moons, the truth is that those make up a rather small portion of their overall pos holdings. Moon goo is not what it once was. The number of pos's in CFC space, operated by CFC dudes almost certainly numbers in the thousands. Think of it, thousands upon thousands of towers crying "feed me! feed me!" And the only way to get fuel to those towers is by 5 light year JF. With fatigue. Oh, it will be positively glorious.It is true that these changes will hurt the little guy, but here's something that defies malcanis' law. You see, pos ownership does not increase linearly with entity size. It is not proportionate. It is not linear. No my friends, some of the bigger entities have far more than their equal share of towers. JF's allow a small cadre to manage a disproportionately large number of towers. A nerf to JF's is a dagger aimed straight at the heart of CFC logistics.
If you actually think this is going to affect us more than the smaller guys, then I have a bridge to sell you. I don't know whether it will affect you more, per se.
What I do know is how many towers the little guys have. And I have a reasonable guess as to the amount of towers you have. I also have a passing knowledge of eve geography. I can put 5 LY +multiplicative fatigue cooldown + thousands of towers together. Spanning many regions, no less.
Will it affect you more? Who's to say? "Affect" is a difficult think to quantify, it doesn't come with SI units. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2192
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Ah...that explains it. I was wondering why Baltec & friends where so adamantly opposed to these changes, even while other notable goons (e.g. Endie's post on reddit) seemed in favor. While it is true that the CFC holds hundreds upon hundreds of money moons, the truth is that those make up a rather small portion of their overall pos holdings. Moon goo is not what it once was. The number of regular pos's in CFC space, operated by CFC dudes almost certainly numbers in the thousands. Think of it, thousands upon thousands of towers crying "feed me! feed me!" And the only way to get fuel to those towers is by 5 light year JF. With fatigue. Oh, it will be positively glorious.It is true that these changes will hurt the little guy, but here's something that defies malcanis' law. You see, pos ownership does not increase linearly with entity size. It is not proportionate. It is not linear. No my friends, some of the bigger entities have far more than their equal share of towers. JF's allow a small cadre to manage a disproportionately large number of towers. A nerf to JF's is a dagger aimed straight at the heart of CFC logistics.
We use blockade runners to fuel towers. They warp as fast as interceptors so they don't care about travel by gates. And where do those blockade runners get all their fuel? It's 65 light years from your southern holdings in delve to deklein. |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2192
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:And where do those blockade runners get all their fuel? It's 65 light years from your southern holdings in delve to deklein. You do know how fast those things warp right? Yeah, I do. So If you're saying you haul fuel blocks for all of your towers from deklein or Jita, I'm calling bullshit on that. Incidentally, 54 light years from your southern holdings to Jita. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2192
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Posted - 2014.10.03 09:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Grave Digger Eriker wrote:So you produce all your fuel blocks locally then!!!
So I guess you don't know about ice compression and our better than highsec refineries. The towers will continue to be fuelled. So.....you import the ice. And I'm sure all of the ice for your thousands of towers will continue to flow into your space without disruption when the new changes hit.
See, here's the thing baltec. Unlike some of my compatriots, I don't think goons, or the CFC at large are particularly stupid. I think someone ran the numbers and realized your space, with its thousands of towers, just got a whole lot bigger. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2197
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Posted - 2014.10.03 10:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:It would certainly be awesome from a systemic level if Iceland had to go back to importing goods from off-shore using Viking era Knarr ships. Especially if we forced them to sail through various choke points heavily populated by pirates. Mind, it would totally "suck balls" for people living in Iceland. But then, they chose to live out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. From this blog post. Oh, that was hilarious. Thank you for posting this here, wouldn't have known about it otherwise.
Also, can't wait to see it in-game! |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2197
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Alp Khan wrote:It would certainly be awesome from a systemic level if Iceland had to go back to importing goods from off-shore using Viking era Knarr ships. Especially if we forced them to sail through various choke points heavily populated by pirates. Mind, it would totally "suck balls" for people living in Iceland. But then, they chose to live out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. From this blog post. Oh, that was hilarious. Thank you for posting this here, wouldn't have known about it otherwise. Also, can't wait to see it in-game! They are not removing Jump Freighters, FYI. But since you seem to be applying that hilarious example to your own stature in null, allow me to remind you that as a Goon, I'm lucky and will not be badly affected by Greyscale's ~bright idea~ as a lesser entity such as MoA's average line member would. Mate, It may shock you to know that my characters have jump freighters, carriers, and dreads too. Shocking, I know. Being the 53,456 member to join your particular coalition does not, in fact, make you a special snow flake. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2198
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lord TGR wrote:Papa Django wrote:On the macro scale, your big coalitions must die. You are strangling the game. This game need some fresh air. Come strangle us, then. Soon(tm) ~watch this space~. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2198
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Posted - 2014.10.03 11:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:I love how the big bad alliances out in null sec are accused of "strangling" the game despite being the only reason CCP are ever mentioned in the News Media as anything more than "that Icelandic company with the space MMO" or "that company doing the *new thing that looks cool but ultimately fails*. The only time EVE gets any real press exposure is when one of the nullsec behemoths does something dumb and loses a bunch of **** or one of the "dishonorable liars" that hisec pubbies despise so much steals the equivalent of a nigerian princes fortune from his alliance before running away and trying to sell it on ebay (although I haven't seen one of these stories in years). Well, lets face it: of late you've been a bit lax in fulfilling your end of the bargain, haven't you? When's the last time one of your dudes did something stupid with a titan that resulted in another asakai? People got bored, people b*tched, CCP listened. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2198
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Well, lets face it: of late you've been a bit lax in fulfilling your end of the bargain, haven't you? When's the last time one of your dudes did something stupid with a titan that resulted in another asakai? People got bored, people b*tched, CCP listened. January. Whens the last time mission runners in hisec did anything interesting? January, huh? So..... like 9 months. Yeah, sure, mission runners don't do sh*t, but mission runners didn't ask for a sov overhaul either. I'd be a lot more amenable to the whole "content creator" schtick if you guys had actually created any of that "someone does something stupid with a titan" content in recent months. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2199
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
You know why I support this idea?
Go back to Manny's thread from three months ago where he proposed very similar changes to the ones pushed forth by greyscale.
Guess what? I was against these changes for all of the reasons all of the nay sayers have put forth in this thread.
You know what happened in the past three months to change my views? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Jack f*cking sh*t happened in null. And that's unacceptable. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2199
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Posted - 2014.10.03 12:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:
Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.
Ah yes, "uproar."
Well let's look at the "uproar."
Endie, one of your leaders, seems to support it. So does le reddit. So too does the bulk of this day 0 straw poll on the subject.
I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2201
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Posted - 2014.10.03 15:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Thead Enco wrote:ThreadAtar Update:For anyone that's interested feel free to take the following Straw Poll Why is there no "Yes, but the changes don't go far enough. 4 LY or bust." option. I'm profoundly disappointed by its absence. |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2202
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Posted - 2014.10.03 16:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Thead Enco wrote:Bertucio wrote:Best threadnought ever. Love the fact the null-bear alliances are bawling their brains out, like spoiled children. We've upgraded to THREADATAR Long may Threadatar reign over the lesser threadnaughts. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2204
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Posted - 2014.10.03 16:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
Yuri Thorpe wrote:Thead Enco wrote:Bertucio wrote:Best threadnought ever. Love the fact the null-bear alliances are bawling their brains out, like spoiled children. We've upgraded to THREADATAR *looks at nano Nerf* Nanonerf had more page but less posts overall due to the way the old forums were structured. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2211
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Posted - 2014.10.03 22:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Jessica Duranin wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:I dunno if anyone has actually calculated it out, but even with infinitely capable servers the speed of light limit might actually even put getting rid of TiDi as complete impossibility so long as all players are not in the same room with the servers. What the hell? Speed of light has nothing to do with TiDi. Not speed of LIGHT, but the SPEED at which light propagates. All electronics and cables deal with pulse wave propagation issues, the pulses traveling through conductors at near the speed of light. Of course optical fiber cables do transactions over light, so it is apples to apples there. :) You have to allow some slop in your tick advancement to allow for fairness of customers at long distance from your servers. Otherwise, people in EU close to the server would have an unfair access advantage over customers in AU or US (for examples). I did say this possible limitation was predicated on infinitely fast servers, but I do wonder how much transmission round trip allowance is built into the server ticks. I like things written by special people. Tell me another story. Distance from the servers has precisely zip to do with tidi. Tidi is because the servers can't calculate the outcome of the commands it's processing as fast as it's receiving them, so the ticktime slows to allow the servers longer to process the scenario. If the servers were limitless in capability, tidi would not exist, even if your round trip time was 3 minutes. The individual with the terrible connection would be out of luck and dunked before they get to fire off a command, but the tickrate would continue as normal. Strictly speaking, people on crappy connections already would suffer a disadvantage, but the way EVE is designed, low level lag has minimal impact as you tend to start and stop things rather than firing off continuous streams of real time commands, like playing an FPS with 1500 ping vs someone with 20.
He's actually not completely wrong. Our alliance actually tested this rather extensively. Get a stiletto or similar with scan res boosted well over 4k. Dude in London catches every single ceptor to come through a gate. Same setup, same scan res, but pick dudes in Los Angeles, Seattle, Houston, D.C, New York, etc. and those guys cant catch sh*t. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2215
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Posted - 2014.10.04 10:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:322 pages of "this doesn't affect us at all, but CCP really shouldn't do this because of :reasons:". Sums up most of the thread pretty nicely tbh. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2215
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Posted - 2014.10.04 11:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
gascanu wrote: oh yea, maybe two-three bits of space will crumble from the large coallitons
Honestly, this would be infinitely better than what's going on now (which is nothing). |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 14:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: then the screams of "IT DIDN'T WORK CCP" coming from all the idiots that think this is going to change null. tIt's going to be amazing. Oh it will change null. That part will happen pretty definitely. Carriers and Supers taking gates, fatigue, 5ly jump cap, all that stuff, yeah null changes.
Now I don't think these changes will kill the blocs. That's just dumb, you could remove jump drives entirely and still not overcome the null bears instinct to huddle together for safety. It's human nature, you can't beat it.
I do think the bloc's territory will shrink just a bit. North to south, the CFC is around 94 LY give or take. East to west, it varies a bit, but at all points it's between 20-50 LY deep. That's quite a bit of space to maintain, with thousands of towers screaming for fuel. I don't envy the people that have to import all of your ice. So yeah, you'll probly shrink a bit. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 14:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: But yeah, null will change, it just won't be much negative impact for the blobs, since we're organised enough to be able to take it in our stride.
Yeah, probably. But it will still change, which is at least an improvement on the status quo. And given that this is only the first of at least 3 changes, this is probably a good thing.
Lucas Kell wrote: The smaller null groups though, they aren't going to ....
How many "small" null groups are their really? There are maybe 4 in the galactic east, and a handful in the galactic west. The ones in the east occasionally poke someone and do something minutely noticeable. The ones on the western half mostly farm in stain.
IMO the notion that smaller entities will be able to "take" sov while the two large coalitions still exist is a red herring that people use when they don't like a particular set of changes. "But think of the little guy" my-ass. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 15:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:How many "small" null groups are their really? There are maybe 4 in the galactic east, and a handful in the galactic west. The ones in the east occasionally poke someone and do something minutely noticeable. The ones on the western half mostly farm in stain.
IMO the notion that smaller entities will be able to "take" sov while the two large coalitions still exist is a red herring that people use when they don't like a particular set of changes. "But think of the little guy" my-ass. Very true. So that being the case, who is this benefiting? Or is it change just so that something has changed, regardless of who or what is affected? Seems a bit pointless in that regard. Overall I think the game will become slightly more tedious and slightly less fun. In the short term, conflicts will arise due to the fact that the entire topology of new eden changed overnight. That this will happen is a certainty. Predicting the medium to long term is difficult because CCP still has at least 2 major changes planned of which we know quite little.
Less certain but still possible: the priorities of large alliances between local industry and logistics may shift as importing from Jita via JF is no longer the magic silver bullet that solves all of your supply problems. Local industry and mining provide additional targets for local entities. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 15:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: Yss, it will not change the power that current entities have, it will not give smaller entities a chance to take Sov and it will only hurt smaller groups
What smaller entities are you talking about, exactly? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 15:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Prince Kobol wrote: Yss, it will not change the power that current entities have, it will not give smaller entities a chance to take Sov and it will only hurt smaller groups
What smaller entities are you talking about, exactly? All these smaller entities that people think are suddenly going to magically appear out of nowhere and do something "Think of the little guy" is a red herring used by large entities when they don't like a change.
Smaller entities do not hold sov now. They will not hold sov after these changes. As long as the 2 coalitions exist, no smaller entity will truly be able to "take" sov. The impact this change will have on smaller entities is irrelevant, because sov-taking smaller entities do not and will not exist. |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 15:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:But like so many other things they've done, it will backfire and make the situation WORSE.
I see. It's a shame I never trained prescience to V. Would've been really useful to know how massive emergent systems with thousands of interconnected parts behave under a given set of changes. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 16:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Why are so many of you too naive to see this?
Probably because many are of the opinion that anything to shake up the meta is better than the utter stagnation we have now? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 16:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
gascanu wrote:dude, i want what you are smoking, really." topology of new eden will change overnight?" why? will a star explode or somethig? eve map the day after this patch will be the same as the map of the previous day; "that this will happen is a certainty" - are you some sort of nostradamus now? even ccp have no ideea how things will evolve, and they admited it openly, but hey if you say so... and on the second part you are again wrong: importing from jita will still be the best way for the large alliances; they have the entry points to 0.0 and the have allot of titans to bridge their freighters around; at the most, this will cost them 1-2h/week when they will need 5-6 titans online to bridge those freighters; it's just that simple Mate, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Say I want to jump from Stain to lowsec, there's only 2 station systems in stain that can make that jump NRT4 and T-NN. Cut jump distance to 5 LY and stain becomes inaccessible from empire without going through sov space or wormholes. That is an example of a massive topological change, one that will affect all of the player living in that particular region, and those types of topological changes will occur all over eve on day 1 of phoebe.
If you're ignorant of something, it's best not to resort to insults as your first option. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 16:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Why are so many of you too naive to see this?
Probably because many are of the opinion that anything to shake up the meta is better than the utter stagnation we have now? Ah, the same thinking that ANYTHING was better than shooting POSes for SOV that saddled us with Dominion SOV in the 1st place. Which is exactly what I've been saying. This is why old folks look at you crazy when a younger person says "well, it can't get any worse". Yes, Yes it can. But dominion sov was (and is) better than pos sov. So that "type of thinking" did yield an improvement. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 16:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:
Realistically there's no more or less skill in any area of space, just many people who are so arrogant they think they are better than everyone else.
Didn't some legion or other recently trash one of your much larger battleship fleets supported by caps, like 2 days ago? You had the numbers advantage and the isk advantage and you lost 18 bil worth of stuff. How do you explain that? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 16:53:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:
Realistically there's no more or less skill in any area of space, just many people who are so arrogant they think they are better than everyone else.
Didn't some legion or other recently trash one of your much larger battleship fleets supported by caps, like 2 days ago? You had the numbers advantage and the isk advantage and you lost 18 bil worth of stuff. How do you explain that? **** happens? I vaguely recall being in a battle where we were several trillion up at one point too. I know that if MoA lost 18 bil you'd pretty much fold, but for most of us that's just an operational cost. Nobody wins them all. It is peculiar though, if lowsec is where all the good PvPers are at, why don't they win the AT every single year? Oh I'm not saying lowsec is the home of all skill in eve. Rather, I'm saying there are definite skill differences of individual pilots and fcs between various groups. And that plays out every year in the AT with certain groups being clear favorites over others. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2216
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Posted - 2014.10.04 16:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Yea, cause F1 monkeys have all the skilz, oh wait, you don't even fit your own ships. I clearly didn't say we do have all the skills. No section of space has an inherently more skilled player base than any other, even if lowsec pilots do like to pretend the are the pinnacle of PvP skill. And again, if they are so skilled, why do they not win AT every single year? They can;t blame this on on blobbing like they blame everything else. Eh.... I'm pretty sure if you took the AVERAGE person living in sov space (and that includes like, what, 40,000 renters?) and compare it to the average lowsec resident, you'd probly find a bit of a difference in player skill. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2217
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Posted - 2014.10.04 17:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:SanDooD wrote:
But it won't. That's the problem. Revenue should come from new subscriptions, sales of PLEX, etc. It shouldn't come from extortion. Forcing capital pilots to have 28-30 alts will not net them new revenue, because for every new cyno/capital jumper account they get, they will lose an existing player probably. If you think some of the old players won't quit over this, think again.
How many new accounts did they get after B-R battle? How many of those stayed active and are patient enough to wait to get into titan. Do you think these people started playing EVE because they think it's the best MMO out there? They want to be part of the fights like that one. Here comes CCP Nullsec Team to crush their dreams.
My Business Hat tells me that I should keep my existing customers first before I try to get new ones, and extorting more money from my existing customers is not a good customer relationship.
This so bloody much. CCP thrive on the media attention they get after massive fights. These changes will make damn sure that you will never see a fight like B-R5RB were an estimated $300,000 in ships were lost and over 7,500 people were involved. Fights like at 6VDT-H were 2591 ships were destroyed including 621 capsules, a fight that effectively killed one of the largest alliances in the game. The Battle at Asakai can never happen again. A fight that started by a mistake a Titan pilot made. A fight that involved over 3000 people. A fight that cost the parties involved over 700 billion isk. Each of these fights generate world wide news and not just on gaming websites but places like Wired, Forbes, BBC etc.. These fights is what gets people interested in Eve. All of this gone... If it doesn't go by way of mechanics, it'll go by way of stagnation. Take your pick. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
2226
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Posted - 2014.10.06 16:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
If these changes go through make sure to add additional sources of mexallon to null. The nerf to logistic may increase the demand for local nullsec industry, but industrialists won't be able to offset the logistical losses if they don't have an adequate supply of basic T1 mats.
Limited Mexallon = Limited access to T1, which isn't good. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
2228
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Posted - 2014.10.07 08:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Summary:
Hot dropping cruisers on the other side of the universe - nerfed
Eve Online, as a game - buffed my dread - waxed and ready to roam yeah, no.
Marauders are awesome right now. Marauders are also cheaper, and far more nimble than dreads. If people don't roam in fleets of marauders, they certainly won't roam in fleets of dreads.
Also, out of siege dreads do *maybe* a bit more damage than a faction battleship, and even then not by much. You'll see carrier roams - because they can actually apply their dps with the smaller drones and sentries, and without being stationary for 5 minutes at a time, but dreads? Nah. |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2233
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Posted - 2014.10.07 20:18:00 -
[61] - Quote
Some fun statistics.
8.9 % of all posts in this thread are from members of Goonswarm Federation. 15.2 % of all posts in this thread are from members of the CFC.
15.2 % of all posts in this thread are from faceless npc corp alts.
1.6 % of all posts in this thread are from members of pandemic legion. 2.8 % of all posts in this thread are from members of N3.
2.4 % of all posts in this thread are from NPC 0.0 entities.
2 % of all posts in this thread are from renters. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2234
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Posted - 2014.10.07 20:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Ocih wrote:I really do feel bad for you all, getting kicked in the face by CCP once again for doing what the rest of us were too lazy to do, too busy to do, too anything to do. Make that steaming pile of horse pucky work. As mentioned several times throughout the thread, this change is actually giving us a "buff" in Deklein. Our space won't really change, it may even expand or simply take a new shape (ditching the furthest expanses of our space). The ability for capitals to take gates is laughable, meaning that we can form a defense fleet anywhere in our space to meet opposing hostile forces. We understand the intent of this change- to nerf power projection - but the implementation of it as currently described is awful. No one really cares about Deklein tbh. Keep it. It's your other regions spanning 95 LY and full of pos's, renters, and moons that might see some fun come the patch. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2234
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Posted - 2014.10.07 20:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:Ocih wrote:I really do feel bad for you all, getting kicked in the face by CCP once again for doing what the rest of us were too lazy to do, too busy to do, too anything to do. Make that steaming pile of horse pucky work. As mentioned several times throughout the thread, this change is actually giving us a "buff" in Deklein. Our space won't really change, it may even expand or simply take a new shape (ditching the furthest expanses of our space). The ability for capitals to take gates is laughable, meaning that we can form a defense fleet anywhere in our space to meet opposing hostile forces. We understand the intent of this change- to nerf power projection - but the implementation of it as currently described is awful. No one really cares about Deklein tbh. Keep it. It's your other regions spanning 95 LY and full of pos's, renters, and moons that might see some fun come the patch. same except yours Exactly. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2238
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Posted - 2014.10.08 01:51:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote: I am still listening.
m
If the goal (or part of the goal) is to make nullsec as a whole less dependent on logistics, you should look into making nullsec viable for T1 industry, with particular regards to nullsec sources of mexallon. Not being able to import, mine, or otherwise acquire a sufficient amount of certain basic t1 mats for an alliance of any size living in most any 0.0 region is a bit of a "f*ck you" to the player base.
Outside of that particular caveat, I think these changes are fine. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2239
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
Hey CCP, you should probably look into disallowing ascendancy implants and hyperspatial accelerators from effecting capital class ships for the detailed reasons provided here. |
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