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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Zetaomega333
HIFI INDUSTRIAL The Kadeshi
87
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:39:00 -
[3451] - Quote
CCP greyscale, do you actually play this game? And i dont mean dabble around here and there jumping to and fro, or being a line grunt member, have you ever had to organize an entire logistical route, move loads of stuff, build something larger than a carrier in nullsec, managed chains of pos's out in nullsec, moved through or lived in deep nullsec? |
Speedkermit Damo
GeoCorp. Curatores Veritatis Alliance
321
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:39:00 -
[3452] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:It turns out that Greyscale's ~vision~ has been foretold before. Greyscale is oblivious to the broader impact that his fantasy of taking away the sandbox aspect of the game and forcing everyone to play it in the way he thinks is the best. CCP has traditionally been a terrible developer, to the extent that everyone with sense can tell you that so far EVE Online survived not because of CCP, but despite CCP. Specifically, it survived because EVE has been a sandbox, giving you unprecedented freedom to play the game in the way you want to play. Now, not so much. Everyone is going to get forced to play the game in the way that Greyscale thinks they should. This is why I have been telling that personally, Greyscale will make history as the man who put the final nail on EVE's coffin.
Actually I think these very welcome changes are going to result in a lot of bittervets re-subbing. Which should balance out all the unsub threats by crybabies upset that their batphone just got confiscated.
Good job CCP. Looks like Eve does have a future after all.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen. |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
144
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:39:00 -
[3453] - Quote
With these changes it will now be possible to get caps into incursion systems.
To me that seams like a mistake if people can completely destroy the mother ship with supers or dreads, will CCP make sure the site of the mothership is restricted or buff the mothership to make it more risky for caps to come on field. i.e a damage buff when the mothership shoots caps? |
Keegan Teutorix
5
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:39:00 -
[3454] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: No, because complicated math is already too common in EVE. Sometimes it's necessary. Here, it's not.
ok so how about the problem that this is meant to address? what pupose do you see fatigue/cooldown timers of more than, say, a week serving? even if you end up addressing it with a hard cap. |
Optimo Sebiestor
Kabizashi
262
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:40:00 -
[3455] - Quote
Really looking forward to this :D |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
186
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:40:00 -
[3456] - Quote
For the zillionth time. Nullsec stagnation is caused by the players who run things, not game mechanics. You can change all the mechanics you want, but if you don't change the root of the problem, nothing will change. To bring about change you need to offer leaders incentive to create war and more fluid game play...
All this and your other latest "improvements" are achieving is busting Joe Plains' balls to the point he quits. Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
671
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:40:00 -
[3457] - Quote
Hey CCP. When people unsubs, they can state their reason in a little form. Could you add one when we're resubbing ? Because a lot of people will get back in EVE with these propositions.
GÖŃ I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. -áI AM A LOWSEC GANKER, HIGHSEC SCUM, NULLSEC BASTARD, WORMHOLE INVADER. Welcome to, welcome to, welcome to my scramble. GÖŃ |
Degalo
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:40:00 -
[3458] - Quote
Greyscale,
You seem to have forgotten that, while this is your job, this is actually a game for paying customers.
How much time do you think people have to play your game?
How much of the customers' time do you think you can waste by saying 'this playstyle is not allowed' before they stop paying?
Your jokes about the max fatigue being somewhere around 8000 years show that you are not treating this seriously.
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Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
331
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:41:00 -
[3459] - Quote
I like the direction of the changes. Would prefer some adjustments:
#1: Redistribute moon goo more evenly. #2: Block Ops need a "window of opportunity" whereby they are still restricted to 5LY, but can get in *and* out before fatigue sets in. #3: Fatigue should apply to ship and pilot to avoid "Jump Pilot Route Alt armies" #4: Selling a toon should now require disclosure of fatigue levels, as well as including the current fatigue when viewing API Key data #5: JF, Freighters and all other haulers should not induce Jump Fatigue and nor should their pilots #6: Cap Fatigue at 3 days or similar. Allows for a window of opportunity to attack someones sov if they over-committed their entire fleet to a different end of their space without reaching silly fatigue levels. |
Francois Jakuard
Kiwi's and Company Mordus Angels
1
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:41:00 -
[3460] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:Alp Khan wrote:It turns out that Greyscale's ~vision~ has been foretold before. Greyscale is oblivious to the broader impact that his fantasy of taking away the sandbox aspect of the game and forcing everyone to play it in the way he thinks is the best. CCP has traditionally been a terrible developer, to the extent that everyone with sense can tell you that so far EVE Online survived not because of CCP, but despite CCP. Specifically, it survived because EVE has been a sandbox, giving you unprecedented freedom to play the game in the way you want to play. Now, not so much. Everyone is going to get forced to play the game in the way that Greyscale thinks they should. This is why I have been telling that personally, Greyscale will make history as the man who put the final nail on EVE's coffin. Actually I think these very welcome changes are going to result in a lot of bittervets re-subbing. Which should balance out all the unsub threats by crybabies upset that their batphone just got confiscated. Good job CCP. Looks like Eve does have a future after all.
Sounds like the call of a CCP dronebaby to me.
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Murauke
Assisted Homicide
1
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:41:00 -
[3461] - Quote
Slept on this since yesterday and I still think that Jump Fatigue is not the way to resolve the force projection issue.
To me its seams to be a complicated solution to something that is actually a simple problem.
Scenario - Alliances have spread out over vast systems and occupy them but do not utilise them. Entities use the "Bat phone" when defending assets and attacking. Current ease of how fleets are projected from one side of eve
All these scenarios happen because either "we can and "we're bored".
To stop the force projection it's not a case of implementing a complicated system such as Jump Fatigue and some calculation which will probably have associated Skill books to reduce said penalty.
In my eyes forcing someone to "wait" for enjoyment will only feed the unsubs. The reason why force projections occurs is because of the immediate chest beating and release of hormones which makes Eve so addictive. Removing this will hurt the game.
The only way in my eyes to stop force projection and allow small entities their piece of the pie i to have a system that caters for a little bit of yo-yo-ing and permit entites to "castle" themselves in a region. Cyno jammers will become useless if this changes goes through, on the other hand designated cyno ships that act as a beacon for certain capitals will make force projection difficult since a "capital cyno ship" spells danger.
The problem I see with our current system is how easy it is to put up a cyno. Forget cyno generators they've already been been through the grind hammer.
[u]Change the ease to which a cyno is deployed for capital ships/u] and you change the status quo of force projection.
The cyno mechanic is the thing that needs to be looked at not the act of being able to jump your ship(s). |
Chirality Tisteloin
Zervas Aeronautics The Bastion
46
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:41:00 -
[3462] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: No, because complicated math is already too common in EVE. Sometimes it's necessary. Here, it's not.
Ok, I hear you.
Logistic growth is not that complicated imho.
Before I saw your answer I have prepared a few plots (the script can produce more) to illustrate: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/logistic-fatigue-growth/
Cheers, Chira.
See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/ |
Eigenvalue
Suay Tii Suk Brave Collective
48
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:41:00 -
[3463] - Quote
ElectronHerd Askulf wrote: Rorq/JF with the 90% bonus on exhaustion accumulation is near enough to an exemption. I'll concede that you guys have vastly larger logistical problems than we do, so I suppose even that 10% will get annoying for you. The range, though, is the huge quality of life nerf that will effect anyone who lives further than a few gates into null.
The issue is the fatigue + 5LY nerf - Sounds systems are going to be 12-14 JF hops from empire round trip, which will imply a 300m courier premium to make it a reasonable profession (2-6 hours to do the round trip vs the 15-20 minutes now makes the isk/hour premium jump dramatically).
You'll have to relocate to E-Y with the rest of us in Catch to buy anything. |
Ynef
Tesseract Industries
16
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:42:00 -
[3464] - Quote
Radius Prime wrote:For the zillionth time. Nullsec stagnation is caused by the players who run things, not game mechanics. You can change all the mechanics you want, but if you don't change the root of the problem, nothing will change. To bring about change you need to offer leaders incentive to create war and more fluid game play...
All this and your other latest "improvements" are achieving is busting Joe Plains' balls to the point he quits.
OK, instead of changing the game mechanics, let's brainwash the mittani. |
Summer VonSturm
Senex Legio
17
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:42:00 -
[3465] - Quote
As a NPC nullsec inhabitant, life just got a whole lot sweeter. Logistics will need us to do some more work, but in terms of fights, its going to mean that the people we fight are once again the people that live near us, so our fights over our 'territory' are just that, local fights, not a fight that any man and his **** can just batphone in a tonne of support if a fight isn't going the way they want it.
I was always concerned that NPC nullsec never had a voice on the CSM, so that it always got overlooked, have to say though, this is one of the better changes Iv'e seen in a long time, Eve got interesting again.
CCP - take the changes, see them through, and you will have a better nullsec at the end of it.
(scurries off to resub accounts for another 6 months.) |
Samuel Triptee
Rosyme Industries
74
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:43:00 -
[3466] - Quote
It seems those with tears are looking at the sandbox as a static system with the players remaining in the places they are currently in.
I'll be back in null soon as it seems there will be fights around every corner.
I just had to leave something here as this is the longest thread I have posted in since becoming a capsuleer. Have You Hugged Your Frigate Today? |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
885
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:43:00 -
[3467] - Quote
Had some time to sleep over these wonderful changes. And my opinion about most of it remains unchanged, they are great. The basics of these plans are a great way forward, with details being open for discussion before it goes live.
Details that warrant some attention from my point of view:
- The 5LY jump range. One has to wonder if any kind of change to range is even needed with the cooldown timer and fatigue mechanics being introduced. Or if range restriction is even needed at all. Say someone wants to jump their Titan from one end of the map to the other with 0 cooldown and fatigue. They will be able to make that jump, but once the jump has been made they will have accumulated such high values of cooldown and fatigue that they won't be able to make another jump for weeks or months. Of course this brings up the issue of just having another pilot jump the ship back again, which is why the cooldown and fatigue timers should be tied to both the character and the ship independently of each other. This might be more work to implement, but it would make sense to do it in this way to avoid any kind of loopholes. The character has X timers, the ship has Y timers. When the pilot boards the ship, whatever timers are highest are applied. Seems pretty straight forward. And even if the pilot flies back home in a pod he still wouldn't be able to jump anywhere in any other ship because his personal cooldown is weeks away from being 0.
What happens to the Titan in the example is that it's stuck at the jump destination until the cooldown timer expires. Which, because the pilot made that insanely long jump, now ranges into several weeks. It discourages just randomly jumping whereever and forces everyone to more carefully pick their fights (hotdropping for fun will now have serious consequences), without restricting the freedom to jump in if they are willing to accept the consequences of doing so. Most importantly, it makes people responsible for their own actions without some arbitrary range limit preventing them from racking up insane timers.
- Short of the above, jump freighters with a 5LY jumprange are next to useless. First of all they are hardly a part of the force projection problem so I don't really understand why they are being hit with this change at all. Secondly, Jump Freighters are almost exclusively used to ferry things between 0.0 and high-sec (Jita specifically). By cutting their jump range back to 5 LY you are effectively taking away the one thing these ships were designed for (quick transport across large distances). JF's can't carry capital ships (packaged or not) and using them to ship the parts to build them into hostile territory is quickly going to be an expensive (and impractical) way of getting capitals behind enemy lines.
Additionally JF pilots generally rely on their own cyno alts to bounce them around the universe. In a perfect world we'd of course organize this with corp mates and such, but in reality this just doesn't happen very often because of time, effort, security, you name it. Now the average JF pilot can get away with having 1 alt account full of cyno chars and that will take him from the edge of the universe to Jita and back. If the max jump range becomes 5 LY it will take no less than 6 cyno points to get anywhere meaningful in a JF. Let alone to the edge of the universe, which will most likely take no less than 10 cyno points. Now something that was already impractical to organize with corp/alliance members has become even more impractical. And like I mentioned before, the entire point of a JF is effectively gone. Transport is no longer quick nor over large distances. And unless you have a wealthy alliance paying for your cyno alt accounts, no JF pilot is going to maintain 4 or more accounts just to jump one ship around. I know I won't/can't.
I'd urge CCP to rethink the inclusion of JF's in these plans. I'd say don't change their jump range at all. Or at the very least, not this extreme. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Aggro Bot
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:43:00 -
[3468] - Quote
this will markedly represent the end of an era.
GG
going to go buy that beta that is out. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1667
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:43:00 -
[3469] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:I think these changes are great!
Even if it means that there will be no low-sec in range of Curse due to that huge gap between Doril and Sendaya. Closest lowsec system is 5.0029 Ly away.
Harder for anyone to resupply, including myself, yes..... Better for Eve, Yes.
Curse will finally be up to its name "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
91
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:44:00 -
[3470] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/J5dIpgN.gif Chief Editor of Evenews24.com GÖ˘GÖ˘ #Third Party And #Loan Service GÖ˘GÖ˘ @BobmonEve |
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Viktor Raybach
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:44:00 -
[3471] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Ivory Kantenu wrote:You're ENCOURAGING people to not want to deploy by making things into a logistical headache for any force, be it large or small. Small guerrilla warfare is sadly NOT the lifeblood of Null, and this isn't going to help the issue.
In addition, the addition to this to Jump Bridges is just silly. You're basically making it so anything with multiple, large regions will have to wait to defend their space in a hurry? Yes, and yes. Both deliberately.
Large fleet fights are, for many people, the reason to be in null and not in low sec/faction warfare/wormholes.
I've seen nothing that suggests these changes will increase the number of large fleet fights, if anything it will see a reduction as the effort for other entities to attack in significant numbers is significantly increased.
Have you given this any thought, and if so can you explain in what way you think this will increase the number of large fleet fights, which are a prominent and popular aspect of null sec sov holding, given that it appears on the surface that these changes do the opposite. |
Raelaem Eudain
Evil Turtles Chelonaphobia
6
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:45:00 -
[3472] - Quote
Summer VonSturm wrote:As a NPC nullsec inhabitant, life just got a whole lot sweeter. Logistics will need us to do some more work, but in terms of fights, its going to mean that the people we fight are once again the people that live near us, so our fights over our 'territory' are just that, local fights, not a fight that any man and his **** can just batphone in a tonne of support if a fight isn't going the way they want it.
I was always concerned that NPC nullsec never had a voice on the CSM, so that it always got overlooked, have to say though, this is one of the better changes Iv'e seen in a long time, Eve got interesting again.
CCP - take the changes, see them through, and you will have a better nullsec at the end of it.
(scurries off to resub accounts for another 6 months.)
See you in N-d and M-M =) |
Ilaister
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
110
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:47:00 -
[3473] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Ilaister wrote:Have none of you read the posts from people that used to escort logistics convoys and how much fun it was? Tell me more about fun.
http://imgur.com/m64JSTN
The only reason someone would want to live that far from anywhere useful is to rat quietly in peace. Pay for that peace in logistics. It's like buying a house in Greenland and complaining when you can't stroll to the Bahamas.
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MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
randomly named no tax corp v2
22
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:48:00 -
[3474] - Quote
Aggro Bot wrote:this will markedly represent the end of an era.
The era has already ended. Go look at eve-offline average weekly figures, they're fallen off a cliff, down by almost a third since last year, and back to levels not seen since 2007.
That's what the current state of nullsec has done to Eve, and why it needs a shake-up this drastic.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6604
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:49:00 -
[3475] - Quote
Work for your space or GTFO!
These changes are going to be great, and the return of having to escort shopping runs is not the end of the world, we used to somehow manage to have a good time and get logistics done back before jump freighters and instant gratification power projection. This plan needs (and will likely receive) a bunch of tweaking, and I bet a LOT more players are going to bother giving feedback and use the test server this time around.
For all those cap pilots who are quitting over this, how many dogdamn *active* combat cap pilots do you you think there are right now that a bunch of you leaving would be of any real significance?
I predict a return of a lot of bitter vets to the game. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
270
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:50:00 -
[3476] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:The Ironfist wrote:CCP Greyscale Do you guys have someone asking the question "is this fun?" during the development process? Just how much time do you think people are willing to spend on a game that is not fun at all. Right now logistics from deep null-sec to empire spaces takes about half an hour. After this change it will be around 7 hours do you really think people are willing to spend that amount of time on a game for literally no progress or reward?
I'm sure this is just a first draft but seriously ask the question is this fun? Will this be fun gameplay? I look forward to your reply. We ask "is this going to add net positive value to the overall game experience for a sufficient number of players to justify its downsides".
How does the JF nerf add a 'overall positive experience' to the game? Baddest poster ever |
Thalen Draganos
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:50:00 -
[3477] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Crysantos Callahan wrote:
Did you already run tests with larger capital/supercapital fleets using gates and the possible bumps that will happen?
Thanks in advance!
- Yup, Masterplan is doing some fine-tuning of warp logic to make this sort of thing smoother. There's no good way to warp 20 titans to a gate at once without bumping, though. Perhaps you could add a little bit of code to change the activation range of a gate depending on ship size. If the ranges are set right you would eliminate that problem all together. |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
296
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:50:00 -
[3478] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:
We ask "is this going to add net positive value to the overall game experience for a sufficient number of players to justify its downsides".
Let me guess, CCP employees are both asking and answering this question? Maybe you should try asking the CSM instead, and let them answer since they actually play the game. My rough guess is that 50% or more of the rage in this thread is related to nerfing JF to 5LY range. Had you consulted with the CSM I'm sure they could have described the major quality of life issues this will cause for your player base and it could have been addressed before you dropped a ragequit inducing dev blog on your paying customers. |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
382
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:52:00 -
[3479] - Quote
Suggestion for Black Ops. What about while jumping through a cover jump portal, the cooldown timer is greatly reduced? Fatigue would still remain the same. Something like 50% (maybe lower)?
That is if you jumped 7 LY on the first jump, your cool down timer would be 4 minutes and your fatigue would be 8 minutes. After 4 minutes you do another 7 LY jump resulting in a cool down of 7.6 minutes and a fatigue of 60.8.
The advantage of giving a reduced cool down timer would be that BLOPS could jump more quickly for the first few jumps, but still build up fatigue at the normal rate.
Thoughts? |
350125GO
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
103
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:53:00 -
[3480] - Quote
I had no idea how many people fly jump freighters. By the looks of this thread, it's everyone!
Though having done logistics before, I empathize with the people who actually have to do it, however, it's what everyone asked for innit? You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it. |
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