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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Optimo Sebiestor
Kabizashi
266
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 08:55:00 -
[5131] - Quote
Theres no logistical problem tied to t2 Production imo. Yes there will be a settling period where moons change hands due to certain parties no longer beeing able to protect their moons spread over half the map. But in general far to Reach Places will be using wormholes as their using them now to traffic t2 Products to highsec. Because, jumping something 1-2 jumps thrugh a wormhole is far easier than jumping something 3-4 times in a jf, far cheaper too. |
Igor Nappi
Perkone Caldari State
86
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 08:55:00 -
[5132] - Quote
Innominate wrote:[quote=Aiyshimin] Jumpbridges are essentially removed, rather than preventing their use for crossing the galaxy, it prevents their use even for intraregion travel. This appears to be a change intentionally backdoored under the guise of stopping "long distance" travel. Jump bridges are one of the few real advantages of owning space.
Current jump bridges are hilariously overpowered and desperately need the nerf. Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game. |
Hilti Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 08:58:00 -
[5133] - Quote
Just received this:
Quote:Caps From: xxxxx To: xxxxx Dear alliance members
In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.
I want every alliance member concentrating on: 1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale 2. buying and building capitals
A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.
You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.
See you on the battlefield Alliance leaders
Gotta love this. |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
167
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:00:00 -
[5134] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:Innominate wrote: The jump freighter nerfs hurt _everyone_ who is trying to get by in nullsec, not just the established powers, and it's the smaller groups who suffer the most.
The only people it's going to hurt are people that can't adapt. What about all the people it's going to help? People who's gameplay might not revolve around any of the crap you're so concerned trolling about?
dude are you ********? how are you going to adapt on that? going back to move your stuff with t1 haulers 30 jumps of hostile space? oh, wait, there is another way to adapt: setting everyone blue all the way to empire should do the job; i can even use my jf then... |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:00:00 -
[5135] - Quote
Igor Nappi wrote:Innominate wrote:[quote=Aiyshimin] Jumpbridges are essentially removed, rather than preventing their use for crossing the galaxy, it prevents their use even for intraregion travel. This appears to be a change intentionally backdoored under the guise of stopping "long distance" travel. Jump bridges are one of the few real advantages of owning space.
Current jump bridges are hilariously overpowered and desperately need the nerf.
How could you possibly know? IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
169
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:01:00 -
[5136] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:baltec1 wrote: Go look at the income you get from a tower before saying these things, it will stop you from looking stupid.
No, please. After you, I insist. Enlighten us. Show me the errors of my ways. Tell us how much one makes in a month and how utterly miniscule that amount is when stacked alongside moons ALL ACROSS THE GODAM GAME I'm sure it's insignificant. Because there is only one guy who mines in EVE.
Don't be coy. You're terrible at it.
Your entire insinuation is that moons don't matter much. It's a bald faced lie hidden behind a ridiculous talking point.
As if a passive tower somehow correlated to a player in a ship in space actively executing a function to begin with.
"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
169
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:02:00 -
[5137] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:
How could you possibly know?
How could one not? "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
Lord TGR
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
62
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:02:00 -
[5138] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:Igor Nappi wrote:Innominate wrote:[quote=Aiyshimin] Jumpbridges are essentially removed, rather than preventing their use for crossing the galaxy, it prevents their use even for intraregion travel. This appears to be a change intentionally backdoored under the guise of stopping "long distance" travel. Jump bridges are one of the few real advantages of owning space.
Current jump bridges are hilariously overpowered and desperately need the nerf. How could you possibly know? He's trolling. |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
102
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:04:00 -
[5139] - Quote
Nazri al Mahdi wrote: No one is taking a standard freighter from empire to Outer Passage unless there's an outpost egg inside, so don't even pretend that's an option.
Off course they do. And it's likely 6 non highsec jumps at most. It's happening today and it will happen a lot more in the future. |
OldWolf69
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
162
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:08:00 -
[5140] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:baltec1 wrote:Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:baltec1 wrote: Go look at the income you get from a tower before saying these things, it will stop you from looking stupid.
No, please. After you, I insist. Enlighten us. Show me the errors of my ways. Tell us how much one makes in a month and how utterly miniscule that amount is when stacked alongside moons ALL ACROSS THE GODAM GAME I'm sure it's insignificant. Because there is only one guy who mines in EVE. Don't be coy. You're terrible at it. Your entire insinuation is that moons don't matter much. It's a bald faced lie hidden behind a ridiculous talking point. As if a passive tower somehow correlated to a player in a ship in space actively executing a function to begin with. I just want to see people like you maintaing these "important" moons after patch. Will laugh my arse off. |
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Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
94
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:08:00 -
[5141] - Quote
The second and third order effects this is going to have on regional markets and the economy are mind numbing... I realize that it is CCP's property, but this is a wrecking ball of an idea. Might as well just come out and say, "Dear Eve player, we here at CCP really just don't like the way you have played our game for the last 11 years. We are making changes to the jump mechanic in order to force a game style more suited to our vision." It would be more truthful, imo. IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13518
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:09:00 -
[5142] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Don't be coy. You're terrible at it.
Your entire insinuation is that moons don't matter much. It's a bald faced lie hidden behind a ridiculous talking point.
As if a passive tower somehow correlated to a player in a ship in space actively executing a function to begin with.
You do know that near all mining is done afk dont you? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Gho Higyidr
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
10
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:09:00 -
[5143] - Quote
Lord TGR wrote:Gho Higyidr wrote:knobber Jobbler wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: Remember that most of those players where playing different games while waiting for pings.
This is fairly normal when you reach a certain state in EVE. If CCP promote a style of game play which consumes a vast amount of time to do anything yet you're not actually required to do very much during that time, it's hardly a surprise. Some of these changes are good, some are completely daft and some further promote this sort of timer based game play which means players go AFK while they wait for an alarm clock. It's not an elegant solution. Agree with you here. Increasing the time it takes to do something that already takes TIME to do in current mechanics.. is the most .. I don't even have a word for it. Again I speak as an advocate for change.. but CHANGE doesn't have to be to torch the very aspect of null. Capital Ships rule nullsec, simple. Nerfbatting them into gate-jumping super battleships that take weeks to a month to be able to jump any distance.. is downright frustrating. I'm just more hung up on the fact that CCP will be gutting out the JF and rorquals.. and possibly even giving BLOPS a dead buttcheek... It's not making nullsec more 'fun' it's going to make it miserable. EVE is already a 'job'. Now it looks like overtime and doubletime are in order to even fuel a tower more than 5LY away. But who am I kidding? EVE isn't about the player, it's about the subscriptions and money right? Actually, are the time aspects of the JF changes necessarily so bad? I would've thought the LY changes would have much more of an impact, especially considering that the haulage guys can either utilize more alts and just change their delivery method to a pony express style of delivery, i.e. JF guy 1 takes leg 1, JF guy 2 takes leg 2 etc. The LY change means that some things are potentially not even viable to reach, like deep space, and I would've thought people would be more up in arms about this. I kind of like it, because it does exactly what CCP wants, i.e. make space larger and more strategic, but I can also appreciate the added difficulty this does create for deep space inhabitants.
Just feels like too big of a step back from modern EVE Online to me. I remember the days before JF's and I lived in Drone Lands during those days. I made things locally but making the trip to empire for the bigger necessities.. wasn't FUN at all. It took VERY careful planning and execution. It's not cut and dry, it's tedious and time consuming.. tbh not really the kind of fun I'm after in EVE. Think about it. JF's already consume a TON more fuel than they did... My JF chokes down a full hold (100ish K isotopes) in a round trip trek across my home to maintain basic things. It's very expensive and already time-consuming enough as it is, even with help. With this JF nerf inbound, I will have to resort to old-school methods of tower and logistics maintenance when my Jump Fatigue is too high... It's not fun and it's not worth the time I'd rather spend shooting all the things.
Another point that irks me: Ok so Capitals are given double dead ass-cheeks. Fine. But now we already have to go a huge amount of jumps for a fight just to have said fights not happen. Even WITH titan bridging.. that's enough to **** even the most patient off. NOW... with the nerf, titan pilots may not want to waste their fatigue timers on bridging and jumping around non-super-serious-business fleets.... so we adapt and go gate to gate... with 100 or so people... 20+ jumps.... likely NOT to get a fight and have to turn around and fly all the way back. In big ships or slow-warping ships.. that's just not... fun? Maybe it is for some of you.
It's difficult to keep going on when there runs a risk of contradiction. lol. IMO.. the bigger the ship class, the shorter the range... so titans get the shortest.. followed by supers... dreads and carriers... BLOPS and JF / Rorquals shouldn't be touched with anything on their range at all... 5-7-10-no range nerf.
Another point: If this is an attempt to break up this MASSIVE throbbing blue donut environment... I think CCP is sadly mistaken. The coalitions have been around too long to just poof to dust over one or two gigantic nerfs.
I could be wrong.. LOL
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Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
75
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:10:00 -
[5144] - Quote
Almighty Bob Bathe in this storm of tears I offer you the utter pleasure At the squeaky nullsex cost
alas lemme grab my socks wife make me some popcorn Warm and endless trail of tears from those who can't think outside the box
Here in Brazil net is awful, pinging slow i still happily dualbox in wormholes until the day these tears turn into snow
almighty Bob rejoice in screams from those who don't know don't grow a pair, cannot adapt Unsub and plz >>>> That way, it's WoW Murderous Inc. wants woobs (does that work as "wormhole newbies"?) |
Redwyne Vyruk
DeepSpace Manufacturers Brothers of Tangra
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:11:00 -
[5145] - Quote
Caius Sivaris wrote:Nazri al Mahdi wrote: No one is taking a standard freighter from empire to Outer Passage unless there's an outpost egg inside, so don't even pretend that's an option.
Off course they do. And it's likely 6 non highsec jumps at most. It's happening today and it will happen a lot more in the future.
quite mroe than 6 j |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
128
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:11:00 -
[5146] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Aiyshimin wrote: Why would the changes "hurt" anyone? That's not their intent or purpose.
It will change the way people move capitals around.
The effects to carriers, dreadnoughts, supercarriers and titans overall are reasonable. I think it could use some tweaking, but on that front things are basically okay. Not perfect, but I'm not really complaining. Where it hurts is the effect on jumpfreighters and jumpbridges. Jumpbridges are essentially removed, rather than preventing their use for crossing the galaxy, it prevents their use even for intraregion travel. This appears to be a change intentionally backdoored under the guise of stopping "long distance" travel. Jump bridges are one of the few real advantages of owning space. The effect on jump freighters is the big one though, it makes the logistics of living in nullsec far far more difficult. Getting resources from nullsec for sale in highsec and getting supplied from highsec into null depends on the use of jump freighters. This is not something unique to the coalitions, very much the opposite, the coalitions own the portals to highsec. All those smaller groups trying to get by in nullsec? How are they supposed to get supplies? Is MOA supposed to take their 30 man fleet and escort a freighter through CFC space, within hotdrop range of our titan bridges? The jump freighter nerfs hurt _everyone_ who is trying to get by in nullsec, not just the established powers, and it's the smaller groups who suffer the most.
Yes, changes to JFs jump range should be reconsidered, even though I'm not a huge fan of the Jita-centered universe as it is.
In my ideal EVE, alliances and coalitions should be able to build up viable economies, but it seems this isn't currently possible.
|
Lord TGR
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
62
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:11:00 -
[5147] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Jumpbridges are essentially removed, rather than preventing their use for crossing the galaxy, it prevents their use even for intraregion travel. This appears to be a change intentionally backdoored under the guise of stopping "long distance" travel. Jump bridges are one of the few real advantages of owning space. I'd say JBs are still usable for civillian travel within the JB network. The main problem is that they cannot be used or relied upon by the FCs for offensive deployment within that same environment, so for offensive measures they are essentially removed. |
Lord TGR
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
62
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:15:00 -
[5148] - Quote
Gho Higyidr wrote:Lord TGR wrote:Actually, are the time aspects of the JF changes necessarily so bad? I would've thought the LY changes would have much more of an impact, especially considering that the haulage guys can either utilize more alts and just change their delivery method to a pony express style of delivery, i.e. JF guy 1 takes leg 1, JF guy 2 takes leg 2 etc.
The LY change means that some things are potentially not even viable to reach, like deep space, and I would've thought people would be more up in arms about this. I kind of like it, because it does exactly what CCP wants, i.e. make space larger and more strategic, but I can also appreciate the added difficulty this does create for deep space inhabitants. Just feels like too big of a step back from modern EVE Online to me. I remember the days before JF's and I lived in Drone Lands during those days. I made things locally but making the trip to empire for the bigger necessities.. wasn't FUN at all. It took VERY careful planning and execution. It's not cut and dry, it's tedious and time consuming.. tbh not really the kind of fun I'm after in EVE. Think about it. JF's already consume a TON more fuel than they did... My JF chokes down a full hold (100ish K isotopes) in a round trip trek across my home to maintain basic things. It's very expensive and already time-consuming enough as it is, even with help. With this JF nerf inbound, I will have to resort to old-school methods of tower and logistics maintenance when my Jump Fatigue is too high... It's not fun and it's not worth the time I'd rather spend shooting all the things. I don't disagree with you that the changes done to JFs might have adverse effects which may or may not be desirable, I'm just thinking that the changes which definitely will have the most effect would be the range, not the cooldown, yet it seems to be the cooldown most people are up in arms about. |
Hademar Drake
Diversity 101
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:15:00 -
[5149] - Quote
Will My jump drive calibration 5 skill points be given back to me , as having the skill any more than level 3 now will be pointless , and it will no increase the range past 5! I just cannot believe by fixing the jump drives your effectively gonna kill off null sec - and capital ships and ccp if you do this along with the rest of your proposed changes - its game over for me. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
128
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:16:00 -
[5150] - Quote
As a side note, I find the jump fatigue very nicely "scifi". I'm not familiar with any scifi world where instant long distance traveling around would be possible with minimal energy consumption and no side effects like currently in EVE.
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Chirality Tisteloin
Zervas Aeronautics The Bastion
46
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:19:00 -
[5151] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote: Perhaps make it so that you can contract a jumpclone so that it can be shipped to the new destination? That achieves the same goal for new players wanting to join, gives them an option over flying out to null but stops the ability for characters to instantly get somewhere.
I really like that idea. Make clones an item. Have the corp mates ship it for you. Only problem is the trapped in 0.0 situation. See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/ |
Darth Gustav
Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension
2598
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:20:00 -
[5152] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:As a side note, I find the jump fatigue very nicely "scifi". I'm not familiar with any scifi world where instant long distance traveling around would be possible with minimal energy consumption and no side effects like currently in EVE.
Have you ever jumped through a gate while 500 other nerds were simultaneously trying to do the same thing?
There's nothing "instant" about it. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Please Turn
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:22:00 -
[5153] - Quote
Gho Higyidr wrote:
Just feels like too big of a step back from modern EVE Online to me. I remember the days before JF's and I lived in Drone Lands during those days. I made things locally but making the trip to empire for the bigger necessities.. wasn't FUN at all. It took VERY careful planning and execution.
words
I could be wrong.. LOL
This is absolutely fabulous. Oh my god, the IRONY. I can't stop laughing. |
Murauke
Assisted Homicide
10
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:22:00 -
[5154] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Just received this: Quote:Caps From: xxxxx To: xxxxx Dear alliance members
In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.
I want every alliance member concentrating on: 1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale 2. buying and building capitals
A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.
You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.
See you on the battlefield Alliance leaders
Gotta love this.
Oh LOL, told you this would happen.
Alliances AKA The blocks have enough capital to buy capital pilots and their ships. Funny how this hammer to force projection has already been though out and "adapted" to.
Wonderful to see some many negative reactions on this forum as well as the character bazzar and then you read something like this who take it in the opposite direction. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
20910
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:23:00 -
[5155] - Quote
I already opened my mouth and sounded stupid, so for the sake of thoroughness I'll just complete my thought.
I was thinking that cloakies are being hit a little too hard by receiving the same fatigue as more significant ships (caps). I also imagined they could be used to advance ahead of the capital invasion march I think you want. Cloakies could be used in this expendable way with shorter jump range but less fatigue.
If you would put cloakies through gates for strategic reasons, you might as well use something other than a cloaky, and moving non-cloakies through gates is far more sustainable.
But... now I'm getting way too abstract and beyond my experience. I certainly don't know how fast you want an invasion line to advance.
Call me a dreamer, but if you could be more careless with cloakies, your carriers and titans can bring enough cloakies (along with clone vat bays) to sustain a mobile invasion cloaky force.
As for recreational jumping, e.g. bombers bar, I don't think you're concerned about that, amirite.
...cloaky. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Xenomorphea
Reality Malfunction Bad Intention
4
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:24:00 -
[5156] - Quote
Kirasten wrote:
It's funny to me that people think CCP cares about your suggestions. Trust me, these posts look exactly like the posts we made about the Hyperion changes. This seriously looks like Hyperion 2.0.
The only thing CCP cared about then is the same thing they care about now. Will these changes break any other mechanics that THEY are interested in. Namely, they want to make living in null harder and take more work to achieve the results you have now.
Get use to it. This change is coming. I'm actually trying to be helpful here. They didn't come this far to NOT deploy the changes. You can adapt or you can quit. They don't care either way, I promise.
Unfortunately, I think you are 100% right. CCP does not care.
After 8 years playing (and adapting to every new change), I am not sure I want to adapt to a change this stupid, that is going to waste even more of my time doing tedious crap (waiting for jump timers, making more jumps) instead of enjoying playing/fighting/whatever.
Fortunately, there might soon nice alternatives to EVE (Chris Robert's Star Citizen just to name one).
Cheers, Xeno
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2191
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:27:00 -
[5157] - Quote
Ah...that explains it. I was wondering why Baltec & friends where so adamantly opposed to these changes, even while other notable goons (e.g. Endie's post on reddit) seemed in favor.
While it is true that the CFC holds hundreds upon hundreds of money moons, the truth is that those make up a rather small portion of their overall pos holdings. Moon goo is not what it once was. The number of regular pos's in CFC space, operated by CFC dudes almost certainly numbers in the thousands.
Think of it, thousands upon thousands of towers crying "feed me! feed me!" And the only way to get fuel to those towers is by 5 light year JF. With fatigue. Oh, it will be positively glorious.
It is true that these changes will hurt the little guy, but here's something that defies malcanis' law. You see, pos ownership does not increase linearly with entity size. It is not proportionate. It is not linear. No my friends, some of the bigger entities have far more than their equal share of towers.
JF's allow a small cadre to manage a disproportionately large number of towers. A nerf to JF's is a dagger aimed straight at the heart of CFC logistics.
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
103
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:27:00 -
[5158] - Quote
Redwyne Vyruk wrote:Caius Sivaris wrote:Nazri al Mahdi wrote: No one is taking a standard freighter from empire to Outer Passage unless there's an outpost egg inside, so don't even pretend that's an option.
Off course they do. And it's likely 6 non highsec jumps at most. It's happening today and it will happen a lot more in the future. quite mroe than 6 j
You're doing it wrong. Engaging your brain would help.
I'll drop a hint : none of these non highsec jumps are through a stargate. |
Gho Higyidr
Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables
12
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:29:00 -
[5159] - Quote
Please Turn wrote:Gho Higyidr wrote:
Just feels like too big of a step back from modern EVE Online to me. I remember the days before JF's and I lived in Drone Lands during those days. I made things locally but making the trip to empire for the bigger necessities.. wasn't FUN at all. It took VERY careful planning and execution.
words
I could be wrong.. LOL
This is absolutely fabulous. Oh my god, the IRONY. I can't stop laughing.
What's a space ship game without irony, eh? ;p
|
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
167
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 09:29:00 -
[5160] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:Just received this: Quote:Caps From: xxxxx To: xxxxx Dear alliance members
In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.
I want every alliance member concentrating on: 1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale 2. buying and building capitals
A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.
You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.
See you on the battlefield Alliance leaders
Gotta love this.
but.. but.. what about small guys?! |
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