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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
652
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:52:00 -
[631] - Quote
say what you want about the blue donut, but no one will have time for a fight with all the logistics required under the new system.
the economic impact of this change is just astounding...
the creativity of the player base is an amazing force and will likely overcome a large portion of these changes in a mostly reasonable fashion. but still just wow I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me! In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod - Mara Rinn |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2033
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 18:52:00 -
[632] - Quote
I was half tempted to pack my bags and leave a few months ago...
But I stuck around with a sliver of hope!
I hope to see many more changes like this towards Nullsec in the near and far future!
AWESOME JOB GUYS!!! EVE needs more Pssshhhh |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12337
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:53:00 -
[633] - Quote
Securitas Protector wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Ms Forum Alt wrote:As it makes it harder for entities like PL to drop 40 supers onto a structure bash, ruining all of the fun, I have to applaud this change. These changes make it no more difficult at all for established entities to accomplish their goals. Well, it makes it more tedious in that the move op has to be scheduled across multiple days -- but with the wonders of Dominion Sovereignty you have several days to react to any given sovereignty dispute due to the way timers work. This is untrue; any two timers close in time but far in distance will be quite difficult to defend against. Not impossible, especially if you use local forces to defend, but more difficult to bring coalition weight to bear. Are there workarounds? Sure, there always will be, but it's extremely discouraged.
We successfully managed against Northern and Southern timers simultaneously during the most recent brushfire deployment to Delve wherein about a third of the CFC stayed home in either the North or the South and another third deployed to the West. What you say is absolutely true of less organised, less entrenched entities; but, I was specifically talking about what one of the major blocs can do. Sucks to be a newbie or irrelevant, which is entirely my point. Sky Captain of Your Heart
Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn |
Bort Malice
VINING ENGINEERING AND SALVAGE TEAM
23
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:53:00 -
[634] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:I would like to remind to all the 0.0 ragers -
Player built Stargates, going from 1 end of your territory to the other in 1 jump!
Yeah my small corp will surely be able to build one of these in Low sec to help ship my bridged Blockade Runners with null mins back into high.
Not to mention one in the SovSystem Im mining in.
Yeah, thats likely. |
Igor Saizew
Cathouse Club The Kadeshi
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:53:00 -
[635] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Play your game alone. When it becomes free to play, maybe i come back because auf the nice memorries.
CU Igor |
Vladimir Ramanov
Cobalt Technologies I'd Rather Be Roaming
1
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:54:00 -
[636] - Quote
Genius.
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Levina Windstar
Mekalon Industry
11
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:54:00 -
[637] - Quote
Wormholes send their regards. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2647
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 18:54:00 -
[638] - Quote
Sentinel Eeex wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:The abolition of podjumping makes it massively difficult for our newbies to join us in Deklein. Has any thought been put into that? Yes, but it's a thing we're still not happy with the state of. We're going to discuss this specific issue more tomorrow, with the aim of coming up with a reasonable solution that deals with the newbie use case without opening the door to more general problems. Stay tuned for more info. I really know very little about sov mechanics, but if I take your station and don't revoke your clone contracts (assuming that's possible), how exactly are you going to leave that station?
...good point. Adding to the to-look-at list!
TerminalSamurai Sunji wrote:I'm just curious, if the plan is to reduce power projection, and the ship is what's being limited in jump range, why is the timer being attached to the pilot and not the ship? IE if a titan gets jumped, put the 'fatigue' timer on the actual ship. I'm not suggesting this as a fix, just that attaching a 'jump fatigue' to a character doesn't make much sense to me, where as I could understand a ships drives having to 'cool down' before re using them.
Can the current game mechanics allow a timer to be attached to a ship?
Reasoning here is that in most cases, pilots are a bigger bottleneck than ships - building a carrier chain to move your cap pilots around is simpler and more cost-effective than building an alt chain to move your carrier around. We could put a timer on both, but we'd rather keep it simple (plus it's really hard to persist things on ships that get repackaged).
As to the "fatigue" thing, there should be some more story coming out about this, but the word "fatigue" should give a pointer as to how we're going to explain it!
Obsidian Hawk wrote:How about this CCP Greyscale
Change the decay from 0.1 to 0.25. That is still a reasonable rate and will still keep capitals roaming slowly.
Rather than a 5 day cool down timer on some it will change it to about 2 days. Which is still a big hit to capital jumping...... But not as severe.
Dont go full blown harsh, do more like a kick to the shins and stepping on feet.
Tuning the decay is definitely something we're open to. |
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Zappity
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
1380
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:54:00 -
[639] - Quote
Good stuff. Don't fold.
I think you need to add a new tutorial for all these null folk. It should describe "gates" and show them how to jump through one. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1423
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:54:00 -
[640] - Quote
Nost of the changes appear to be ok.
Except the one.
JB fatigue ? This will kill content for small to medium fleets, subcaps. Not good. Personnel Division Director - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse-á CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
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Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
362
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:55:00 -
[641] - Quote
One change that I would like to advocate for us small guys in FW. When we loose systems we use capitals to move our fitted ships out en masse. This change will limit the amount of ships we are willing to keep in the war zone if we aren't able to move a good portion out in a timely manner.
Have you considered increasing the capacity of the ship array on capitals? |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
769
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 18:55:00 -
[642] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!What about player built stargates???? Did all of 0.0 forget about this change coming? CCP what about the player built stargates that are coming in conjunction with the capital change?!?!?
Sure - and when they arrive in 20-who-the-fck-knows all the cap pilots will have unsubbed. CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
40
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:55:00 -
[643] - Quote
If anyone thinks this will really limit the veteran heavy alliances like PL/BL from hot dropping them they're delusional. These are pilots who already have multiple cap accounts. There is nothing stopping the large powerblocks from simply parking capital alts at strategic locations and just use the right alt for the right area. Or parking caps in multiple areas along with a jump clone in each and voila... they can instantly show up anywhere. Just means a bit more strategic placement of spare ships.
All this does is hurt small/young entities.
And the hit to deep 0.0 entities is just crazy... Folks living in places like Omist, Feythabolis, Paragon Soul, Drone Regions, etc are going to have 10+ jumps just to get to empire for logistics. Jump Freighters and Rorquals should be exempt from the range changes. This will severely hurt logistics, especially for folks living in deep 0.0, otherwise.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.-á He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." |
Edmond Lewis
Republic University Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:55:00 -
[644] - Quote
if you wanted people to not use capitals, just remove them from the game, or did you just buy cloud imperium and this suicide is your way of securing your investment |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2803
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:56:00 -
[645] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:congrats, you Just 'Malcanis Law'd' null sec and made things worse because who can afford to but new characters and PLEX for multiple character training, new guys or old players?
Caps are not ships newbies should take any interest in, I don't see Malcanis Law to apply here.
Invalid signature format |
Xordan
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
3
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:56:00 -
[646] - Quote
just a little off topic...
what the current record for posts in a 24 hour period on one post.
if this doesn't break all records cause of the stupidity of these changes... |
Pfaeron
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:56:00 -
[647] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Preface: this is a big change. Yes, the way you play now is, as it relates to things touched by these changes and to varying degrees, no longer going to be viable. If that wasn't the case, these changes wouldn't be worth making in the first place. This isn't a business-as-usual tuning pass, this is redefining what jump drives are *for* in this game. Literally Space Moses wrote:Have you considered the rather long distances between regions? I haven't actually checked the numbers, but I can imagine some regions being nigh impossible to assault, just because no capital ships can actually jump far enough to reach them, or can only reach one or two systems.
e: can caps even reach the drone regions via jump drives after this change? Yes, we have. The 5 LY range was chosen after looking at gaps between regions. 5 allows you to cross many of them. The larger gaps, such as some of the drone region jumps, were never going to be crossable with any of the range of ranges we'd be comfortable with. In some cases yes, this will lead to gate bottlenecks for capitals, and the geography of these areas will become very significant, yes. (BRT-OP to C-4D0W is 2.52 LY)
The drone regions are already very far from lowsec in comparison to other regions. For example getting a dreadnought/jump freighter from lowec to drone regions means you only have a handful of systems to select from for your route. That's already limiting in comparison to other regions. We know that its this way, its always been this way, its just a characteristic of the drone regions.
So with the new ly change proposal, have you considered remapping the drone regions in consideration of this max-ly change, such that after the max-ly jump change, a similar set of systems are still within reach as they are now. No additional bonuses nor penalties beyond the intended jump travel rate that you intended.
I would think remapping change would achieve your result of reducing the speed of jump travel without the hugely penalizing effect of cutting off drone regions entirely... and still maintaining the characteristic of drone regions that if you want to jump to it, you only have a few systems to choose from.
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Ian Praetorius
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:57:00 -
[648] - Quote
When will Jump Fatigue Reduction Certificates be made available in NES and how much will they cost?
Or will this feature be rolled into the PLEX redemption system? |
Josef Djugashvilis
2545
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:57:00 -
[649] - Quote
John McCreedy wrote:If you want people to move back to null sec and improve the life of people who dwell there, nerfing logistics is not the way to go about it. Jump-based travel is not exclusive to the large alliances with monstrous Capital and Super Capital fleets. Rather, it's used primarily as a logistics tool by Jump Freighters for seeding markets locally so that we don't have to go to market hubs where every Tom, Richard and Harry who has declared war on us is sitting in wait.
Jump Fatigue will do nothing to stop Super Cap blobbing or Capital Hot Dropping because any commander worth his salt is going to factor it in to their pre-engagement planning. People will just base those fleets nearer to the source in order to avoid Jump Fatigue. If it takes a bit longer to move sub-Cap fleets through multiple Titan bridges fleets will either jump from a closer distance or fleets will form up earlier to compensate for Jump Fatigue. You achieve nothing by doing this other than to annoy the very people who live there.
All this will achieve will be to further drive people from null sec and back to Empire where you can find more entertaining PvP, make more ISK and have easier logistics. At the very least I would suggest that Jump Freighters are given a role bonus of -100% Jump Fatigue and are exempt from the Jump Range nerf. Eve will still feel bigger than it does now without damaging null sec economies with ill thought-out nerfs to logistics.
I rather suspect that the first paragraph of your post may well be seen by CCP (and others) as an argument in favour of the proposed changes. This is not a signature. |
Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
234
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:57:00 -
[650] - Quote
CCP,
You state that
Quote:Black Ops ships will have their range unchanged, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This also keeps the range of their jump portals unchanged. We donGÇÖt feel that Black Ops range needs adjustment right now.
Which in turn implies that a Black Ops ship will have the same factor for the cool down timer for a capital ship. While I agree with the sentiment that a cool down timer for all jump capable ships is acceptable (since you plan to implement it), the ratio is problemeatic.
Without getting too ~lore~ heavy (because seriously **** that ****), a Blops are more or less battleship class ships but with the neat jump portal feature. As a result, Blops ships are the size of a battleship, which is a fraction of the site of the capital. Why does the same length of cool down apply to the Black Ops ship that is applied to the Capital ship?
Shouldn't the Black Ops ship receive a, slightly, shorter cool down time & factor (I don't know the right ~math word~)?
Let's use something simple because, frankly, I'm dumb when it comes to math.
For the sake of this example let's use the currently proposed system and look at the cool down. Capitals and Blops ships share the same "1 + LY" fatigue. So for example, a Blops & Capital moving 4.85 LY (post change implementation) both have a cool down of 1 + 4.85, or 5 minutes 51 seconds.
They're two different sizes, two different masses and so forth. Why can't the BLOPs have a factor of say "0.75 + LY" as opposed to "1 + LY" that the capital ships receive?
In the provided example the jump that takes 4.85 LY would take the BLOPs ship 5 minutes 36 seconds to be able to jump out of system. This allows for the BLOPs ship to do it's typical "get in, get out" strategy that has become a staple of the intended use for the class, while also applying the proposed cool down timer changes.
Now, I'm not a math wiz and openly admit I'm probably missing something but figured I would ask. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
56
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:57:00 -
[651] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:sooo tl;dr: in this blog, CCP doesn't understand exponential growth? The maths here are a fundamental part of the design. X ATM092 wrote:It is theoretically possible to compound the fatigue up into years of jump delay with fewer than a dozen actual jumps, simply by not allowing the fatigue to decay between each early jump but rather jumping as soon as possible. After the first few days of decay make little difference because the decay is linear and the increase in fatigue is multiplicative. If you wanted to you could completely incapacitate a character with this, for example selling a titan toon on the bazaar which is disallowed from jumping for years.
Your decay formula needs to be modified to reduce a percentage of the total fatigue per hour, rather than a fixed amount.
Edit: I calculated 6VDT to VFK by Aeon to take a little over 7 months if you jumped as soon as possible each time (obviously it would take less time if you waited for the fatigue to decay to 0 after each first jump). Reducing fatigue multiplicatively as a general rule works in the wrong direction for what we want - it means high fatigue decays faster than low fatigue, whereas if anything we want the opposite. We may need to introduce some kind of "overtime" decay past a certain point though, to keep it under control.
I think you really need to think of the complications, of suddenly having a pilot that can't jump with a carrier for 1 month(or more) You've nerfed rapidly deploying over vast distances to a complete impossibility.
Why make this rammification hit you days later?
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Arun Tadaruwa
State War Academy Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:57:00 -
[652] - Quote
VauXurne wrote:Arun Tadaruwa wrote:VauXurne wrote:So cynojammers are nerfed too? Now you can just jump your caps through the gate. Bubble the gates you silly thing. Or use tacklers. If someone manages to surprise you with a stargate-jumped carrier then you're being **** at eve. Youre an idiot. That is all.
Yeah yeah big boy, show me where CCP touched you. Alt posting because yes. |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
922
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 18:57:00 -
[653] - Quote
Question regarding supers.
Are there plans to make them dockable or are you only looking to give them the ability to go through gates. Will Chribba, Dark and I be un-employed in the near future?
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
2870
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 18:58:00 -
[654] - Quote
Thank you Greyscale
Never fold- keep moving!
And to the rest of you, HARDEN. THE. ****. UP!
"A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven." GÖâ-áJovian Proverb-áGÖâ |
Vladimir Ramanov
Cobalt Technologies I'd Rather Be Roaming
5
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:58:00 -
[655] - Quote
Anyone with a T3 Tissue BPO is going to make a killing at the moment. |
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
215
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:59:00 -
[656] - Quote
So I just thought of something funny....
I go onto the character Bazaar, buy myself an AMAZING Erebus pilot, perfect skills, **** yeah.
I log onto my shiny new Erebus pilot to discover he has a 12month cooldown on jumping. |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
73
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:59:00 -
[657] - Quote
Nobody seems to have commented on this, so... When you say 5LY range, is that JDC V range? Training JDC V sucks. Can I convince you to reduce the multiplier on the JDC skill and increase the base jump range on capitals to compensate?
Also, am I reading things correctly that the orange (no jump activation) timer gets set to whatever the blue (jump fatigue) timer says when you jump? (with it bottoming out at 1 minute) That seems like a nice, easy explanation that doesn't require any math beyond "Your jump fatigue gets multiplied after your jump." If it's not that, it really needs a better explanation. |
Erotica 0
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:59:00 -
[658] - Quote
"oh no my power projection i meant nerf theirs not mine "
also re: caps through gates- wormholers say hi, it's actually better than jumping around, lol
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Reppyk
The Black Shell
608
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Posted - 2014.10.01 18:59:00 -
[659] - Quote
Vladimir Ramanov wrote:Anyone with a T3 Tissue BPO is going to make a killing at the moment. Overloading the BPO ! I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. -áI AM A LOWSEC GANKER, HIGHSEC SCUM, NULLSEC BASTARD, WORMHOLE INVADER. Welcome to, welcome to, welcome to my scramble. GÖÑ |
Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
112
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Posted - 2014.10.01 19:00:00 -
[660] - Quote
As it stands, I believe this plan, while interesting is going to kill off T2 production in EVE, especially nullsec. There is no possible way to move large quantities of moongoo easily anymore.
This also means that normal cynos in space are going to be extra vulnerable. HOWEVER, this will significantly reduce hotdrops....so that's a plus of sorts. CCP RedDawn:Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty..||| CCP Goliath:I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. ||| CCP Goliath:http://goo.gl/PKGDPZ |
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