Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 .. 275 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
257
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:07:00 -
[7621] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Andy Landen wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Andy Landen wrote: How is a carrier (or any other captial for that matter) supposed to survive traveling through gates in null sec?
Maybe by bringing some friends? I'm pretty sure that's the whole idea behind a Massively Multi-player ORPG. Mr Epeen So the only answer I hear to this question is "Bring friends" which realistically means enough players to assure a win at every gate. So let's look at that for a moment: Friends don't make bubbles disappear and since there are no capital MWDs, bubbles are the single greatest threat to any capital that has been caught on a gate or caught anywhere for that matter. Interdictor bubbles cannot be destroyed! So if capitals have to use gates, then they need bubble immunity just like T3s or interdictors. Friends have MWD, fast speed, fast align, etc. Friends don't have to travel with friends like capitals would have to when forced through gates. So a simple movement operation would turn into a massive alliance effort which hinges on winning at every gate at the risk of billions! Solo travel through gates for subcaps with scouts is practical and acceptable risk in most cases, but it is suicide and billion ISK risk for capitals in most cases. AND why is there NO jump fatigue for gates AND wormholes as well ?!!! See what subcaps think about that! And yes, if Titans can take gates, they should also be able to dock! It seems to me that you are worried about being friendless and jumping through a gate that has someone who actually has friends on the other side. Because if you solo jump through a gate and run into another solo guy It's not really an issue. It's not a problem with the game mechanics. It's a problem with you. As an aside, DON"T FLY WHAT YOU CAN"T AFFORD TO LOSE!!! That counts for caps as well. If you can't find a fleet as a cap pilot, then move to highsec and mine. Most of the tears in this thread are coming from people afraid they might get blown up. Stop telling high seccers to HTFU when you all can't mange to set even a small example. Mr Epeen Have to love the over simplified thinking of the simple mind. Although solo jumping capitals through gates would be simply giving any small gang a killmail. The same can be said for having friends with you. You and 20 "friends" are traveling via gates in capitals, hopefully with a scout (or 3). Scout jumps and reports gate clear 1 neut in system NV outgate has bubbles so bounce to me. So your little party jump and align to the scout, as the FC hits fleet warp there is a large spike in local (the neut has friends too, many more than you do), a crow lands on your scout, closely followed by a dictor, it is all over in minutes.
Moral here is - Not only will you need to travel with "friends", you will be forced to travel in massive fleets or risk being whelped at the hands of the already dominant large groups who run nulsec. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
786
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:08:00 -
[7622] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Ocih wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: that is what I like to see
the most ingratiating position of surrender possible
It just occurred to me why CCP is making this change. When you guys steamroll some useless hole in the middle of nowhere for the lulz, an Evac will be all but impossible. Of course if they flip GSF like BoB it means a lot of stuff gets left in Dek too but that won't happen.. did you just imply that ccp would disband our alliance lmbo
You should really be worried about what will actually happen when this goes live.
Nothing changes. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
1185
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:20:00 -
[7623] - Quote
So when can we expect an updated dev blog? |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
471
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:27:00 -
[7624] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Ocih wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: that is what I like to see
the most ingratiating position of surrender possible
It just occurred to me why CCP is making this change. When you guys steamroll some useless hole in the middle of nowhere for the lulz, an Evac will be all but impossible. Of course if they flip GSF like BoB it means a lot of stuff gets left in Dek too but that won't happen.. did you just imply that ccp would disband our alliance lmbo You should really be worried about what will actually happen when this goes live. Nothing changes.
please tell us what will happen o master of moongoo |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
258
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:28:00 -
[7625] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:] did you just imply that ccp would disband our alliance
lmbo I'm not sure why but for some reason Goons refer to themselves as an "alliance", they are not and have not been an "alliance" for a long time. Goonswarm - Right or wrong - IS the CFC, without the CFC and other dominating coalitions, nulsec would be a very different place.
Goons are not to blame for the stagnation in nulsec alone, they simply responded to game mechanics and blued everyone they thought worthy to defend from other coalitions who did the same.
CCP don't need to disband GSF (that would be the worst outcome) CCP need to find a way to make giant coalitions disappear.
Many alliances would gladly go to it and attack Goons if not for the fact - You challenge Goons you are challenging half of nulsec.
These changes are only going to make the giant coalitions stronger and give them an even more stable hold on nulsec.
Nerfing capital force projection is not going to "fix" nulsec. Fixing/changing game mechanics so coalitions become obsolete will bring nulsec to life. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Shaax MacGruber
Hellfire Cult SpaceMonkey's Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:29:00 -
[7626] - Quote
Mother of God, this thread is still a thing?
Imagine this is an insightful comment. |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:35:00 -
[7627] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:Ocih wrote:I really do feel bad for you all, getting kicked in the face by CCP once again for doing what the rest of us were too lazy to do, too busy to do, too anything to do. Make that steaming pile of horse pucky work. As mentioned several times throughout the thread, this change is actually giving us a "buff" in Deklein. Our space won't really change, it may even expand or simply take a new shape (ditching the furthest expanses of our space). The ability for capitals to take gates is laughable, meaning that we can form a defense fleet anywhere in our space to meet opposing hostile forces. We understand the intent of this change- to nerf power projection - but the implementation of it as currently described is awful. No one really cares about Deklein tbh. Keep it. It's your other regions spanning 95 LY and full of pos's, renters, and moons that might see some fun come the patch. I'm sure the coalitions will just let you waltz in and take their primary income source. Go for it - it'll be totes easy and you're guaranteed to succeed. |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:43:00 -
[7628] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Gwailar wrote:I suspect CCP doesn't really and has never intended to nerf logi so hard. What they really want to nerf is force projection. By announcing it in the way they have, they can ease off on logi and walk away appearing sensitive to player concerns while getting the nerf to the ground on caps that they want. Logistics is the backbone of force projection. It is. Is the objective to mitigate the ability to seed a staging system with a thousand battleships overnight? Yes. That certainly ties in well with the overall force projection nerf of the changes. Is the objective to make it harder and more expensive for a small group in deep null to get a few cheap cruisers imported? Probably not. The objective here is to increase small scale pvp. We want them to have easy and cheap access to stuff to welp. The changes are very counter-productive here. Is the objective to make life hell for people who hold a large number of towers? Maybe. But those that do will find ways to deal with it and those who don't may have less incentive to deal with the headache. How do we stop mass importing of a combat fleet without hurting industry or "the little guy"? What if we give the Jump Freighter the Iteron treatment? Instead of reducing the maximum jump range, reduce the base cargo hold on it. Then give it a second bay that can hold industry related items or even modules, just not ship hulls, to keep overall capacity the same. Increase total trips instead of midpoints. Note this will cause more fuel use and Fatigue. It would also allow painfully slow seeding of subcap fleets at larger ranges with increased safety, which is a downside. T2/T3 cruisers can already be seeded similarly with blops, so it only really adds limited battleship capacity. Rushed bulk hull importing would be better done by bridging freighters in such a case, conserving Carrier pilot fatigue. Which would require Titan midpoints and staging towers. Securing supply lines, creating potential opportunities. At least a lot more than a cyno alt on station. The alternative answer for the little guy is to recruit industrialists and build their own stuff as they go. But this would further tie in with the above suggestion, requiring them to import and export mostly things that go in the secondary bay. The force projection crowd wants a fitted ship there, now, in the hundreds.
Agreed. If you give JF 100% immunity to effects of fatigue and range nerf and ban it from carrying ships in any form, then it can't be used for power projection or combat taxis. |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:51:00 -
[7629] - Quote
Funz Orlenard wrote:This change will give a huge advantage to people having multiple characters. They will just jump to a system, switch character (which they needed to have there anyways), and jump further. I know that's what I'm gonna do. It will even let me relay back and forth on the same cyno pair since the logi chain is so long, the fatigue will be gone by the time I return to each point.
Not too many people are like me and will be able to pull this off at the very edge of the map though. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5451
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:52:00 -
[7630] - Quote
Could someone point out the 'little guy' that is currently in deep null that these changes are going to bone over? Being part of a coalition automatically disqualifies an alliance of 'little guy' status by the way.
Anyone? The Paradox |
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
472
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:54:00 -
[7631] - Quote
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:Agreed. If you give JF 100% immunity to effects of fatigue and range nerf and ban it from carrying ships in any form, then it can't be used for power projection or combat taxis. carry ships in mineral and component form, carry the blueprints in a separate autism chariot, build in your staging system
bam I just projected the hell out of force |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6425
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 22:57:00 -
[7632] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Nazri al Mahdi wrote:Agreed. If you give JF 100% immunity to effects of fatigue and range nerf and ban it from carrying ships in any form, then it can't be used for power projection or combat taxis. carry ships in mineral and component form, carry the blueprints in a separate autism chariot, build in your staging system bam I just projected the hell out of force You nullsec indstried
That's CCP's victory right there ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6425
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 23:01:00 -
[7633] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Edit: You assume Andski has 15 friends. Hah! Maybe not 15 friends, but he at least can all-all broadcast for a bunch of fleets. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Bkdvr
O G R E S Azgoths of Kria
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 23:53:00 -
[7634] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:
*Actual number of current sov holders that rage quit over this is vastly exaggerated by bluster and unsubcribe threats; most of these people are not actually going anywhere.
You might be wrong. I just un-subbed 2 accounts (Paying accounts). While I applaud CCP for trying to make the game better, I disagree with the sledgehammer approach. The deciding factor for me is the 5ly limit on jumps to JF's. |
Busta Rock
The DawnSoarers
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:06:00 -
[7635] - Quote
I'm decidedly angered by the sledgehammer approach as well, when CCP has had other options FOR YEARS to shake up null and the big alliances. |
SanDooD
Killing is Business Get Off My Lawn
30
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:08:00 -
[7636] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Could someone point out the 'little guy' that is currently in deep null that these changes are going to bone over? Being part of a coalition automatically disqualifies an alliance of 'little guy' status by the way.
Anyone?
Corporation(s) renting space from you or us (Period Basis comes to mind in our case). They are screwed. What's gonna happen is we'll probably see demand for renter space closer to low sec. Those poor guys in "deep" null are SOL. They will become even more dependent on their landlords now.
At least that's what I think, I may be completely off target though. |
Athryn Bellee
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
36
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:26:00 -
[7637] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Could someone point out the 'little guy' that is currently in deep null that these changes are going to bone over? Being part of a coalition automatically disqualifies an alliance of 'little guy' status by the way.
Anyone?
What will the poor renters do when they can't get instantly back to high sec to sell their loot? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5451
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:29:00 -
[7638] - Quote
SanDooD wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Could someone point out the 'little guy' that is currently in deep null that these changes are going to bone over? Being part of a coalition automatically disqualifies an alliance of 'little guy' status by the way.
Anyone? Corporation(s) renting space from you or us (Period Basis comes to mind in our case). They are screwed. What's gonna happen is we'll probably see demand for renter space closer to low sec. Those poor guys in "deep" null are SOL. They will become even more dependent on their landlords now. At least that's what I think, I may be completely off target though. Renters are part of a coalition currently. The Paradox |
Krefken Howiere
Mass Production
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:37:00 -
[7639] - Quote
Bkdvr wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:
*Actual number of current sov holders that rage quit over this is vastly exaggerated by bluster and unsubcribe threats; most of these people are not actually going anywhere.
You might be wrong. I just un-subbed 2 accounts (Paying accounts). While I applaud CCP for trying to make the game better, I disagree with the sledgehammer approach. The deciding factor for me is the 5ly limit on jumps to JF's.
Great to hear that people like you are leaving. You're part of the problem. |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:38:00 -
[7640] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Nazri al Mahdi wrote:Agreed. If you give JF 100% immunity to effects of fatigue and range nerf and ban it from carrying ships in any form, then it can't be used for power projection or combat taxis. carry ships in mineral and component form, carry the blueprints in a separate autism chariot, build in your staging system bam I just projected the hell out of force You nullsec indstried That's CCP's victory right there The time and effort required to build it is worse than actual power projection with jump drives. |
|
Celly S
Concord Attraction Services The Ditanian Alliance
291
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:41:00 -
[7641] - Quote
Jacque Custeau wrote:This is a another huge nerf to super-carriers and titans. For better or worse, these ships have only a fraction of the ability they once had when they were released.
Is it possible for CCP to re-visit the issue of supers and titans being able to dock? Do you really think that with all the previous changes in addition to what is being planned, it still makes sense to keep these ships out of stations?
if you allow them to dock, then you just removed the reason to change cynos last time...
it won't happen as far as I can tell, but, it would be a step forward in some cases.
o/ Celly Smunt
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Etrei Kordisin
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:47:00 -
[7642] - Quote
Good to see that the hating has calmed down!
This is indeed a nerf to power projection, but if you really think this is a nerf to supers/titans overall... You really haven't thought about it |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
832
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:51:00 -
[7643] - Quote
SanDooD wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Could someone point out the 'little guy' that is currently in deep null that these changes are going to bone over? Being part of a coalition automatically disqualifies an alliance of 'little guy' status by the way.
Anyone? Corporation(s) renting space from you or us (Period Basis comes to mind in our case). They are screwed. What's gonna happen is we'll probably see demand for renter space closer to low sec. Those poor guys in "deep" null are SOL. They will become even more dependent on their landlords now. At least that's what I think, I may be completely off target though.
Its not just entities like that - enterprising individuals/small corps that are highly mobile and taking opportunities where they can, etc. will be hit pretty hard.
The guy who had one of my thanatos before me used to do something like (not sure on exact details):
Alts in stealth bombers - scout out quiet lowsecs/null, etc. for mining - had a lot of timezones and so on mapped out. Jump thanny full of mining ships and/or black ops bridge alts to target system Do a bit of mining If someone came into local or he was done, swap the mining ships back to bombers and jump thanny out.
He'd be pretty screwed with these changes if he was still playing. |
Athryn Bellee
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
36
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 00:58:00 -
[7644] - Quote
Rroff wrote:SanDooD wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Could someone point out the 'little guy' that is currently in deep null that these changes are going to bone over? Being part of a coalition automatically disqualifies an alliance of 'little guy' status by the way.
Anyone? Corporation(s) renting space from you or us (Period Basis comes to mind in our case). They are screwed. What's gonna happen is we'll probably see demand for renter space closer to low sec. Those poor guys in "deep" null are SOL. They will become even more dependent on their landlords now. At least that's what I think, I may be completely off target though. Its not just entities like that - enterprising individuals/small corps that are highly mobile and taking opportunities where they can, etc. will be hit pretty hard. The guy who had one of my thanatos before me used to do something like (not sure on exact details): Alts in stealth bombers - scout out quiet lowsecs/null, etc. for mining - had a lot of timezones and so on mapped out. Jump thanny full of mining ships and black ops bridge alts to target system Do a bit of mining If someone came into local or he was done, swap the mining ships back to bombers and jump thanny out. He'd be pretty screwed with these changes if he was still playing.
Good because that is a horrible way to play an MMO. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
832
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 01:01:00 -
[7645] - Quote
Athryn Bellee wrote:
Good because that is a horrible way to play an MMO.
Maybe so but not everyone is amused by the same thing or plays the same way. He seemed to find it satisfying though too much like hard work for my tastes. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1661
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 01:32:00 -
[7646] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
So where are the other CSM on this? Are they boycotting the thread, or are you liaising for the entire CSM for this thread? Just curious?
I am the forum guy, voluntarily. Others may come and go but I am the old patient one who keeps at it. Though I will admit this thread challenges anybody, myself included. As for who I speak for? Me. But if I say I will take an idea up with the devs, I do. In that regard I speak for you guys more often than not. I am not 'The Voice of the CSM'. I am just someone willing to engage in the conversation.
Not that you have reached a consensus but I take main themes and pass concerns along. Then I see what the devs say (when they let us look under the hood) and try to advise on how you will react and again push for the common ground. This is why you see me asking for specifics, cases. I am fairly decent at seeing kludges that are just workarounds and will end with no change in the status quo.
So to the issue
questions for you
Do you accept the premise that null is basically stagnant/broken? Do you believe that power projection is partially at fault?
Understand that this is not the panacea for all the problems but one step on the path
Is it the right step? What would you think is the next one? IF they are going to go through with this math and this solution what minor changes would you suggest? (alternative math for fatigue and shock is all nice but mainly appears self serving so you can do what you want and screw everybody else OR you want to create a loophole that will be easier to fly through)
Feedback from this thread HAS been listened to and changes made, here and there.
I am still listening.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Busta Rock
The DawnSoarers
37
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 01:43:00 -
[7647] - Quote
I for one agree that null is broken. power projection however is IMHO a symptom and not the cause of the problem - a large part of the problem is that CCP has been lazy - particularly about the moon material situation and sov mechanics in general. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2238
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 01:51:00 -
[7648] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote: I am still listening.
m
If the goal (or part of the goal) is to make nullsec as a whole less dependent on logistics, you should look into making nullsec viable for T1 industry, with particular regards to nullsec sources of mexallon. Not being able to import, mine, or otherwise acquire a sufficient amount of certain basic t1 mats for an alliance of any size living in most any 0.0 region is a bit of a "f*ck you" to the player base.
Outside of that particular caveat, I think these changes are fine. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1661
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 01:51:00 -
[7649] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Now I am confused in This post it seems you are following the thread to see if you can help find balance via the CSM. Yet in the above quote you seem to be saying these changes are it, we all have to deal with it and adapt. Which is it? Is my play style (and that of hundreds of others) being completely removed or is there hope for the smaller groups in nul to survive without giving up PVP. Because in its current form, these changes remove the ability of smaller groups to operate in nulsec without committing a lot more time to the mundane but necessary parts of the game. Is it intended by CCP and the CSM that only mega corps and huge coalitions can operate in nulsec?
Change is coming. Full stop period
Playing the same way as the rules change around you is not advised. This is not a thread to decide IF the change is happening but modifications to the form.
CCP stated the objectives in the OP.
Me, I hope to hell that there is some balkanization but I do not want to see the megas die nor do I want the little guys killed off faster than a corner grocery when Walmart comes to town.
There should be room for both.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium
323
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 01:57:00 -
[7650] - Quote
Is it worth continuing to whine about BLOPS? |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 200 .. 275 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |