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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1382
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:06:00 -
[991] - Quote
I have a family and work full time. I do not have time for hours of cooldown. This change neither helps new players nor will it encourage old ones to stay. We already have to spend considerable amount of time to search for targets. Getting there in time once some are found will be impossible.
I fear it is a terrible idea.
TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Tenguboi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:06:00 -
[992] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:[ MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:Tenguboi wrote: 2- You touch Capitals but you dont have the intestines to mess with the CFC jumpbridge network so you dont nerf CFC power Projection
Jump fatigue affects people taking bridges from what I understood. Yup. .
Are we talking here about anchroed Jumpbridges?
Also how are you gonna solve fleets and titan jumpbridges will some people be elf tbehind if they jumepd their carrier earlier? |
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
93
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:06:00 -
[993] - Quote
Quote:We've run simulations for capital ships travelling between arbitrary pairs of systems, and settled on the target movement speed of no less than 3 minutes per lightyear for travel over 20 LY.
Under the proposed system, the optimal strategy for long trips is to wait until your fatigue is under 1 (i.e. 10 minutes left on timer) and then jump, which gives an assymptotic travel speed of 10 minutes per AU--much slower than your 3 minute target (you can cheat a bit on the last jump and make it a bit faster, at the expense of a longer cooldown and much longer fatigue--if you're going to be logging off when you get home, for example)).
As such, I think it would be wise to at least double and perhaps triple the fatigue decay rate.
I also remain concerned about the viability of black ops battleships with this change, and look forward to hearing your plans for those. |
Gedalva
7
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:06:00 -
[994] - Quote
I for one am looking forward to all the nullbears quitting and leaving me all that space to fly through unimpeded! |
Igor Nappi
Perkone Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:06:00 -
[995] - Quote
TheButcherJohn wrote:Lord Fargo wrote:CCP cant press the self destruct button fast enough can they? How exactly can new members of any null alliance get to their territory? By deathcloning of... oh, wait, you can't. Guess 0.0 isn't allowed to be populated. I did it in a (pre-buff) Executioner with a T1 cloak and MWD. I'm sure the great empires of 0.0 are able to instruct their recruits in the fine art of jumping gates. Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game. |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
299
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:06:00 -
[996] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:The Cue wrote:Will warp speeds be adjusted? Capitals warp exceptionally slow as it is.
Probably not, no.
LOLOLOL You do know the exact next patch is when you're going to have to up the warp speeds, right? Capitals are intolerably slow. Heck I'm surprised you haven't bumped the BS ones up yet already.
Quote:Coreemo wrote:Also, the whole "fix" to deathcloning is a really bad idea. We need SOME way to quickly deploy to a hot area that requires it. Why? (Serious question.)
Because these changes already coddle the risk averse- you guys literally use the reasoning of people being scared of someone moving across the entire map to drop. That's being risk averse. (It also rarely happens, and when it does tends to be a very intricately set up thing involving a lot of forethought and planning.)
Quote: *Every* controversial change hurts the little guy too much. It's good that all the big guys are there to look out for them.
Newsflash- your players actually play the game. Not all of them rushed to the biggest entity and some people are, in fact, actually able to look at the consequences of your changes for all groups without being wrapped up in the "I made this" pride you guys always have when told what is wrong.
As to black ops and your continued bafflement at why they keep being brought up:
Black Ops are a ganking tool, not a fleet combat one. They are lightly tanked, not particularly impressive dps, and essentially the main thing they have going for them is that ability to pop in, gank, and then disappear (cloak or otherwise). They are not something that will stand to most fleets of any kind so their potential for abuse in the areas you're targetting is pretty low. That you guys need this explained is a bit laughable, since you can't even first look at their function and maybe piece it together yourselves.
Not adjusting them leaves them with essentially no niche and will require future adjustments that do exactly what your players are suggesting or even an entire overhaul on them that gives them some other purpose.
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AssandTits
University of Caille Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:07:00 -
[997] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Andski wrote:With these changes, the west is practically guaranteed to be held by us until either our organizational structure collapses or the servers die. But apparently it's ~goon tears top kek~ No. You'll be paying the Sov costs for the West forever. PASTA, MoA, BL, Tri and Mortuus will control these regions. They will own the R64s, they will drive out the CFC ratters and if they are really mean, they might install renters in your sov. With the power projection nerf, you can't just jump around with 50 dreads to RF everything. If you want to RF a MoA tower, you have to come down from your capital in bombless bombers taking gates (taking JB or Blops bridge gives fatigue), shoot the tower, go home via gates. When the timer comes up, you have to come down again in combat ships and you might find the locals deploying a few triage carriers and tracking dreads that you can't counter with 200 supers unless you've been planning the dunk for weeks. I can't tell how much I love these changes. The CFC is going down! A tip for the "newbie can't deathjump to Deklein": Let all alliances set a HQ (changeable once a week or if HQ Sov is lost) and players can deathclone to this system. So you can always deathclone home but you can't deathclone away.
Can I get a side order of Gobbo tears with a entree of Retardation Sauce, topped off with a kilo of whatever he is smoking.
Of course, all the Grr Goon capitals will be exempt from jump fatigue and jump restrictions ... and will have FULL pre patch range. Seriously you are a bitter and twisted little troll, please show me on the doll where the bad goon touched you. |
Rock Brackenshield
Paradox Outburst
7
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:07:00 -
[998] - Quote
Hey folks, here's my couple cents on this.
I have near to 0 experience in Null, but I do have some in WH life, and I have a couple of questions/concerns.
1. Getting to the entrance wormhole - Concern As it stands, the entrances to a wormhole can be entirely across the map, and with the jump cooldown coming in to play (I'll get into the rate for my first question question) this will severely limit our ability to get into the wormhole in the first place. If it's across the map, even with gate access, we may miss the wormhole with the rate of increase on the cooldown, which is near exponential levels, rather than a geometric based approach. Once the capital is in the wormhole, all is fine and dandy, but initially getting the capital in there will be a problem, especially if neighbouring wormholes don't have a hole anywhere close either.
2. Rate of Jump Cooldown growth - Concern From what I saw in CCP's initial post, the growth rate of the cooldown is nearly exponential. We see after several jumps, the cooldown being ~20+ minutes, which isn't bad, but then after that we have round a 1.5 hr cooldown. it'll be much, MUCH longer. Wouldn't a more geometric approach of a standard, or slowly increasing jump time be appropriate, rather than something that makes jumping nearly impossible after several long (near 5 LY) jumps?
I just did the math with a corpmate, and essentially you can move 3-4 regions over (depending on size) in about 3 hours. If you want to move another one, it'll increase the time to about 10 hours, and if you wait all that out, it'll take another 40 hours on top of that if you wish to jump again. Approximately. My numbers may not be exact, but that's the general idea. Essentially, jump cool down follows a bit of a pattern: Jump 1: CD = ~6 minutes (5.942 minutes) Jump 2: CD = ~5.5 minutes (5.3 minutes) Jump 3: CD = ~20-25 minutes (22.9 minutes) Jump 4: CD = ~1.5 hours (99.96 minutes) Jump 5: CD = ~8 hours (483.83 minutes) Jump 6: CD = ~ 40 hours (2220.82 minutes) * All numbers are approximate. I rounded, etc.
Assuming you jump near max distance of 5 LY as soon as the previous cooldown finishes, using the model CCP gave in the dev blog. I went from Hasama (The Citadel) to Esaeel (Aridia) in a Redeemer with JDC II, a max range of 5.25 LY, and I ignored any jump that went over 5 LY.
So essentially, any jump over 20 LY isn't really worth it, unless you can wait. Even then, if you need to get somewhere fast, your best bet would be to just take 3 jumps over 10 minutes, and then manually pilot it, jumping should the opportounity arise.
Small groups would have the time to move cyno pilots in place, and large alliances most likely already have them in place, so that's not a big issue, it's more the jump time itself. I didn't account for Jump freighters, or Rorquals etc, this would just be capitals flying at the max of 5 LY.
This allows you to fly several regions over in a reasonable time frame, but after a while, it just becomes an exponential rate of growth, and flying through 40 gates is suddenly appealing, rather than waiting all that time to move 5 LY.
This DEFINITELY will shake up Null, but it also isn't friendly when trying to get people in cap ships into wormholes. It's almost better to wait or roll the hole until you get one within 5-10 LY than to ever try to get one in otherwise. At least we do have wormhole chains to follow and the like, to increase our chances. Provided the wormholes stay alive, that is. |
MuppetsSlayed
Aegis Cartel The G0dfathers
16
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:07:00 -
[999] - Quote
I like these changes. I read the whole thing and from a combat perspective it sounds good.
The only problem I can see is that we all use carriers to move our rigged ships. When you change corps you jump everything to low, switch corps then jump back out to 0.0 into a new area.
It sounds like it wont be possible to move yourself and your stuff after these changes, unless you have a jump freighter and are prepared to flatten your ships destroying the rigs. For this to work there is going to need to be a new class of ship moving ships to take on the logistics (moving stuffs not repping) role that carriers have now, |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
308
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:07:00 -
[1000] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:they're going to get ground into a fine paste if they dare deploy caps anywhere near us That's true. They probably know that, so they won't deploy any caps in the 5LY distance of YA0-XJ. Everything else isn't "near us" anymore.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
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Bort Malice
VINING ENGINEERING AND SALVAGE TEAM
27
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:07:00 -
[1001] - Quote
Balzaamon wrote:Jump Freighters with 5LY limit? Really?
How someone, who lives in Stain will get to Jita with no docking rights in Catch/Providence???
Simple: he dont get to Jita with 5LY JF. Oh wait, he can jump to system on route and dont dock, wait to cool down timer on cyno, but wait, theres no cloak on JF...
Also it affects other frontier regions like Period Basis/Feythabolis and many more.
Another knife in the back for smaller alliances without sov, keep it up.
This
Immobile SuperCaps apparently make for more interesting gameplay than functioning JFs or Blops |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
299
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:07:00 -
[1002] - Quote
For all these people screaming about the JF nerf:
Where have you been for the past several years? What they've been trying to do is push nullsec to focus more on self-sufficiency and manufacturing their own supplies rather than the frankly ludicrous idea that you should be pulling in all your goods from hisec trade hubs. You've been used to the ability to hop across the galaxy for lightning speeds for so long you've lost sight of how absurd and unbalanced that is as a game mechanic. You're not SUPPOSED to be able to have field control over the entire galaxy, or the ability to truck things from wherever you want to. Distance being an actual barrier to travel is realistic and it's been way too damn long for something like this coming. +1 and keep it coming.
Just make sure that with the next phase you focus on more constructive vs destructive changes for groups, since these huge null groups need more incentive to produce all their goods locally. |
ArmyOfMe
Origin. Black Legion.
318
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:08:00 -
[1003] - Quote
Makalu Zarya wrote:dear CCP Greyscale you are about as far removed from reality of EvE as Mitt Romney was from reality of the average american life in the last election, please do everyone a favor and quit.
Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken |
Lyn Fel
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
79
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:08:00 -
[1004] - Quote
I believe that this was supposed to be a PL/NC. nerf, but really it hits Black Frog and others who do logistics much harder than it does them. |
Tribalist
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
3
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:08:00 -
[1005] - Quote
Really curious as to how many accounts have been unsubbed today.
Is there a way to check?
Personally, if this is going to go through in November I will be getting my personal assets safe, help my corp move anything it deems needs moving and unsub everything except my main, then see what happens, No caps means I don't need alts.
#SummerOfDiscontent |
Kun'ii Zenya
The Executives Executive Outcomes
21
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:08:00 -
[1006] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:bp920091 wrote:Congratulations CCP, you've made Stain and just about every single NPC 0.0 region uninhabitable.
I like the general thrust of the devblog, but the above is a valid response. Stain will be unreachable without going through sov, Curse/Thukker will mean going through an oft-camped gate, and Venal will be seriously awkward (Lonetrek > midpoint in the Pure Blind mordus systems, then a jump into a non-station system in southern Venal). Wormholes?
So how long till you find one going where you want and what about mass limitations? You really going to take a carrier through wormholes? A JF? Sub-capitals ok.
Stain is going to become the tribute whichever alliance holds sov in Catch. Whomever holds tribute will be the de facto overloard of Venal.
Invasions will have to almost start from either high sec or low sec from now on. The idea of deploying to someplace like Venal or other NPC null systems will be far more difficult given both the sever limitations on jump drives and the jump fatigue. |
Madd Adda
UEASC Technologies Black Thorne Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:08:00 -
[1007] - Quote
I do love how a lot of people here "threaten" to quit over something that wouldn't make their lives easier. I might not have been here for Incarna, but I wonder how many pilots threatened to quit during that time but never did.
I also wonder how many people here, who threaten to quit, will actually follow through come the release. My guess is that they'll try it, learn to deal with it, and move on. |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
163
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:08:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:I have a family and work full time. I do not have time for hours of cooldown. This change neither helps new players nor will it encourage old ones to stay. We already have to spend considerable amount of time to search for targets. Getting there in time once some are found will be impossible.
I fear it is a terrible idea.
Quoting for truth, I have actual things I have to do to live life, I also do not have time for hours of cooldown. This change will cripple your company financially. |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
142
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:08:00 -
[1009] - Quote
CCP Greyscale: Will jump fatigue cool down while an account is unsubbed? Because when **** hits the fan and I jump as soon as possible because my spacebros need help my super won't be able to jump again for a cpl of months and i cba to keep an account just subbed for that?! Follow me on twitter: @ForlornW Follow my blog: http://crossingzebras.com/author/forlorn-wongraven |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
874
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:09:00 -
[1010] - Quote
AssandTits wrote: Of course, all the Grr Goon capitals will be exempt from jump fatigue and jump restrictions ... and will have FULL pre patch range. Seriously you are a bitter and twisted little troll, please show me on the doll where the bad goon touched you.
if there's any spot we missed we'd like to know so we can get poking |
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Pic'n dor
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
29
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:09:00 -
[1011] - Quote
What about upper limit to fatigue/cooldown to something like 30min ?
and why 5 LY ? Rejoignez-nous : http://www.epsilon-lyr.com |
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
34
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:09:00 -
[1012] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Pure_Blind/EWOK-K
We have 800+ dudes in this system right now. Come across the galaxy and kill us.
Oh wait, you're fatigued. Nevermind.
EXACTLY ..case in point....in future you wont have 800 dudes in ewok..... since they are not all local... your proving why we need these changes
so in this case we did not even bother to form against you.... since we only had 120 available vs your 800... your ability to jump in 800 people using JB and titans is exactly the problem...
let those caps take forever gate to gate from YAO.... with a subcap fleet to support them..... its a total game changer
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Bobmon
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
84
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:09:00 -
[1013] - Quote
Sion Kumitomo @siggonK -+ 2 min
The 0.0 CSM do not support all these changes. Some were discussed at the summit, the rest, only had one day to look at. #tweetfleet #csm9
I thought ccp had learned from this (insert previous gates here) Chief Editor of Evenews24.com GÖ˘GÖ˘ #Third Party And #Loan Service GÖ˘GÖ˘ @BobmonEve |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
299
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:10:00 -
[1014] - Quote
MuppetsSlayed wrote:I like these changes. I read the whole thing and from a combat perspective it sounds good.
The only problem I can see is that we all use carriers to move our rigged ships. When you change corps you jump everything to low, switch corps then jump back out to 0.0 into a new area.
It sounds like it wont be possible to move yourself and your stuff after these changes, unless you have a jump freighter and are prepared to flatten your ships destroying the rigs. For this to work there is going to need to be a new class of ship moving ships to take on the logistics (moving stuffs not repping) role that carriers have now, I don't think it'd be too much trouble for them to add fleet hangers to freighters and jump freighters, don't you? |
TlTlTlTlTl Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:10:00 -
[1015] - Quote
Cyno theory just jumped 20+ blops and carriers on a 15 man t1 cruiser fleet
This is what should be stopped LOL |
Trespasser
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
47
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:10:00 -
[1016] - Quote
do you people at ccp just go around a table.. take some drugs and just think about the best way to **** the whole thing over?
i could have fixed this with 1 of 2 things.
1. make all capital ships have the same range as titans and remove fatigue. anyone that has moved them knows its a huge pain in the ******* because of the 40 mid points to do anything
this makes it take forever to cross vasts amount of space fast...even more so because of jump walls in 0.0 regions. Titans also have enough range to hit most of the region they are stationed in.. so defending is unaffected.
OR
2. Remove Range from Jump Drives... Double Jump Fatigue..... So if PL or goons or any other major player wants to 1 cyno from the drone regions to VFK.. they can do that...But they wont be able to bridge or jump out anytime in the next week. Also make the fatigue timer attach to the ship and not the player... that way alts cant get around it.
Also wtf is the point of a cyno jammer even being in the game now? same with the mobile version... they are useless when you use gates.
Capital should NEVER be allowed to use gates. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1541
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:10:00 -
[1017] - Quote
Welcome to the world of dread/carrier caches.
Can we please get a refinery to smelt supers into dreads and carriers? Build your empire ! Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis Contact me for details :)
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Shadowy Salesman
Holy order of eb.
3
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:10:00 -
[1018] - Quote
Ok with these changes,
Before : jump freight goods to station, light a cyno and jump simple and easy
After: have a convoy of corp mates protecting your freighter pilot as you make a multi gate journey
Which one provides more potential content?
This also makes lowsec small capital/battleship fights more viable, the risk of been hotdropped from someone bored in a station a few 100ly's away is suddenly gone.
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Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
251
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:10:00 -
[1019] - Quote
This thread is the best thing since sliced bread.
So many people completely losing their **** over something that's only a devblog and not next weeks' patch.
How people can be so ignorant and completely and ONLY try to see the bad part of the changes, i don't get it.
Oh and as a sidenote, i can fly caps, i just don't own any. Well, one. Which i only ever used for moving **** around because, well, PLs' Amamake summer camp. I will gladly accept cap ship donations in all forms and sorts. The system doesn't matter, i will pick them up, move them to lowsec (THROUGH GATES, **** YEAH) and explode them in a great ball of fire and fun because with the proposed changes i might actually have a chance not to get hotdropped by every huge alliance in the game. pew pew |
Bailian Moxtain
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
17
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:10:00 -
[1020] - Quote
Im used to live with bad changes in EvE, but this is honestly a joke. Time to smartbomb Amamake again with titans, because guess what, we cant move them anywhere without being a ******* ingame trailer-driver. Atleast let us dock in supers so I can park this useless ship somewhere and forget the 100bil pricetag. Im now sad panda |
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