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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Alice LaMarke
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:55:00 -
[1231] - Quote
So lets see, there is a possible fight happening in neighboring region 25 jumps away, lets spend two hours moving subcapital fleet in TiDi there, the fight in the end doesnt happen, lets spend two hours going back.
So what happened there?
You have three hundred annoyed, bored players that spent their whole evening doing nothing interesing or fun. Lets do that again in two weeks.
Fixing supercapital power projection by f*****g over everyone in nullsec is not the way.
Seriously, this devblog feels like highschool essay that must have atleast ten pages, done by fifteen year old, high on weed and their sixth redbull at three in the morning on the deadline day about a topic they saw one tumblr post about. |
Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
65
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:55:00 -
[1232] - Quote
Mona Zoid wrote:If CCP have problem with 4000 ppl fights just set hard limit to 1000 people in a system and stop doing such awesome workarounds...
Or even better. Introduce instancing. Each region is it's own server. That would remove the power projection and evil blocs! |
FusionProGamer
Universal Fleet Operations The Unthinkables
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:55:00 -
[1233] - Quote
CCP you do know that this will only hurt small groups as much if not more then large ones right? On top of that what capital pilot would ever use a gate unless he is with a massive fleet. No Cap or super pilot in their right mind would even consider that as a option period.
I like the out of the box thinking and these ideas aren't necessarily bad. You guys are just implementing them on to large a scale. Reduce the timers and increase the range and it will work a lot better. Hot Drops will be a pain to do but you wont be crippling logistics and Super use. Changes should be meant to improve not cripple. |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
84
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:55:00 -
[1234] - Quote
Mona Zoid wrote:If CCP have problem with 4000 ppl fights just set hard limit to 1000 people in a system and stop doing such awesome workarounds...
Won't fix the stagnation, won't fix the big groups bullying small/newcomers in an extreme risk-averse way, won't fix the lack of content with easy logistics, etc.
Remember when eve had no JF? I have a Ph.D |
KatanTharkay
V I R I I Ineluctable.
34
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:55:00 -
[1235] - Quote
Members of the BotLRD non aggression pact, please don't complain too much, your supers weren't seeing much action anyway. This is a harsh move from CCP's part, but I believe we will adapt. This will create capital bottleneck systems where you will be able to use your supers much more than you are using them now. With the logistics change, probably T1 ships will start being produced locally. |
Lando Cenvax
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:56:00 -
[1236] - Quote
Wow... this is ******** in so many ways. Seriously... if you guys want to slow down capital deployment or nerf hot drops, use other mechanics. These timers are by far the most stupid way to achieve this goal. By far. Cyno-Time-delay depending on range between Cyno and Ship would be another solution. 1-2 Minutes time-delay per light year (reduced by skill). For 13 LYs that would mean 13 to 26 mins to lock on to the cyno. Time in which the Cyno is vulnerable. Fair enough. No complex timer involved...
But nerfing range is a damn stupid idea... You guys do realize that this will require a lot more cynos or will every null/low-sec NPC Station now have a built-in cyno? My typical jump-distance is 7,4LY which I use for hauling stuff. This will not be possible anymore after this ******** change. At least not without another Cyno. My fuel-efficient carrier does 6,5LY without skills and now you want to nerf that down to 5LY AFTER skills? And no, as "the small guy" I can't afford a Jump Freighter.
You guys want to fix null-sec? Please go ahead... but not by nerfing jump drive travelling. Travelling in EVE is already enough pain in the arse. |
Yuri Thorpe
EnRon co.
10
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:56:00 -
[1237] - Quote
Now they just made 300 man carrier spidertanking slowcat fleets something that can now roam...
Oh boy, cant wait for that |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
301
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:57:00 -
[1238] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Kat Ayclism wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Just to make sure everyone's aware, doomsdays can't be fired at subcaps. Why not- after this? (Serious question) Because I took the ability to do so away from them almost exactly three years ago, and the reasons for doing so still hold :)
But now there is an increased susceptibility of them to subcaps- being permabumped when attempting to align to the next gate as an example. If supers traveling via gates should be possible if not preferred, then should they not also now have means to defend themselves?
Also the situations then were that you could suddenly appear from a much more sizeable distance and pop in to alpha off key targets. The distance one can do that from now is lessened quite a bit without exhausting your character's fatigue for some time. Adding that option back in gives people more reason to field their supers- which many will now be hesitant to do. It creates a huge tactical choice of "well do we waste a month of our characters' ability to quickly move on this one fight?"
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
214
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:57:00 -
[1239] - Quote
Presumably with these changes when a capital jumps through a stargate it will land a proportionate distance from the gate? Like in WH space? |
HSG Bomber
Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:57:00 -
[1240] - Quote
these changes will be great in tidi |
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Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
2992
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:57:00 -
[1241] - Quote
Axhind wrote:Mona Zoid wrote:If CCP have problem with 4000 ppl fights just set hard limit to 1000 people in a system and stop doing such awesome workarounds... Or even better. Introduce instancing. Each region is it's own server. That would remove the power projection and evil blocs! Wow. That's a terrible idea.
"A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven." GÖâ-áJovian Proverb-áGÖâ |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
189
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:57:00 -
[1242] - Quote
FusionProGamer wrote:CCP you do know that this will only hurt small groups as much if not more then large ones right? Yeah, not getting dropped by PL supers that were half a galaxy away a few minutes ago is certainly going to hurt small entitys.... |
Zaporozh
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
4
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:57:00 -
[1243] - Quote
Pavlakakos wrote:Lecksi wrote:I'm looking at the bright side. My 25 paid monthly reoccurring accounts will be going down to 3 if I even keep playing.
I don't see this helping null sec. Its going to make it so hard to get anywhere no one will bother.
WOW! 25?!?!?!? Here are some tips for you... If you walk out the door and see a bright shiny ball above... fear not. It's called "Sun"...... .....and yes, the true color of the sky is blue.
I agree with Mr. CVA on this one |
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
986
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:58:00 -
[1244] - Quote
So many tears :D Come play Crink, over 130 billion in prizes paid out already!
Join the channel 'crink' in game or visit http://crink.corelicorp.net to play. |
Arkon Olacar
Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective
401
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:58:00 -
[1245] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:I would like to remind people of player stargates that are coming soon. Linking key loints of you null sec empire closer together so you can jump you caps faster So you're saying these changes will be better in early 2016, when CCP release player-built stargates
And that's supposed to make this less stupid how exactly? Warping to zero |
BoBoZoBo
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
481
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:58:00 -
[1246] - Quote
Joshua Foiritain wrote:So many tears :D
Tears?
I am well equipped, funded and supported with ample assets all over New Eden already. Moving around is not an issue for me, no tears
Organized people in large numbers, who communicate well, can do anything with resources and a solid logic train. The CFC has all of the above in ample supply. Moving around will still not be an issue, no tears.
Making things harder by changing a number on a modifier can be easily overcome with all of the above.
But you are right, it is sad - The opportunity here was to make something more strategic and though-provoking. That opportunity has been squandered. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Kun'ii Zenya
The Executives Executive Outcomes
22
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:58:00 -
[1247] - Quote
Prediction: Given the exponential nature of jump fatigue the work around will be multiple JF pilots along the logistics route.
Yeah, I know JFs get a 90% reduction in fatigue, but the curve is still exponential as a function of number of jumps. Do enough jumps and soon you're grounded for a rather long time. But by using multiple pilots along the route you can help flatten out that curve.
Larger coalitions will likely be better able to implement this kind of change.
Corollary: Being bigger is better.
Being bigger in terms of people will also necessitate more space given the current income that can be extracted from any given system.
Again, not really sure this change is going to work out the way it is intended. It might even make renting even more of an income model for null.
I agree the intentions are good, but there is that old bromide: the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
2992
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:58:00 -
[1248] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:Presumably with these changes when a capital jumps through a stargate it will land a proportionate distance from the gate? Like in WH space? I'd assume so- they should land at considerable range.
"A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven." GÖâ-áJovian Proverb-áGÖâ |
Scarlet Intelis
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
19
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:59:00 -
[1249] - Quote
Yuri Thorpe wrote:Now they just made 300 man carrier spidertanking slowcat fleets something that can now roam...
Oh boy, cant wait for that
Don't worry. The first 100au wide system that spidertanking slowcat fleet hits will destroy all the "fun" they were planning on having. |
Poultergoose4
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
33
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:59:00 -
[1250] - Quote
BugraT WarheaD wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:Shayle wrote:Thank you CCP for having the balls to do this.
For anyone moaning about how tedious it will now be to travel across the map for a fight; that's the whole point! Find a fight closer to home, go reset your standings and destroy your neighbours because you're bored. Let chaos rule again.
For those moaning about not being able to jump bridge across their vast swathe of empty null sec space; that's the whole point! Downsize your sov space so you can move across it to defend it, and let someone else move in next door.
For those moaning about logistics challenges, we managed fine for years without jump bridges and jump freighters (including moving moongoo). Or if it's too much hassle for your alliance to hold half the bloody moons on the map, then don't hold them all - oh wait, maybe that's possibly the point?
How many of you actually remember back to the 2007/2008 era where multiple wars were happening across null sec? Fountain seemed like a million miles from Deklein, and you'd certainly never consider traveling all the way down to catch just for one fight.
Stop crying just because you're ******* lazy.
+1 on top of a like for you Sir. +2 so , cause I join you in this statement :)
+3... Personally from a Merc point of view it will hurt us badly when moving, but that doesn't mean we can't adapt to it. Great changes. Looking forward to them being implemented. |
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Selest Cayal
Nex Exercitus Northern Coalition.
27
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:59:00 -
[1251] - Quote
Pesadel0 wrote:Actually this idea was in part made by manny , and after thinking about it , it is actually pretty cool.
If you think about it people wont be able to go from one part of eve to the other because they can , now you have to plan you deployments and now small alliances will be able to destruct in your homespace if you arent there , because you cant death clone and cant use your cyno chain to quickly go back to defend your stuff.
With some polishing this is a very good change to null sec maybe now all the super coalitions will start to shatter.
Yes and now you can get Hell camped by a well planned op.
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Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10252
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:59:00 -
[1252] - Quote
Wow, 200 more pages.
Who will be the first to take advantage of the current situation and try to grab a system or two? I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked, you sissies. Check out the newest and sexiest in New Eden Fashion! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461&find=unread |
Zappity
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
1395
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:59:00 -
[1253] - Quote
I find the lack of imagination about what this change will lead to very disturbing. Clearly the average bloc member is so deeply entrenched in their ways that they can't see the forest for the trees.
Yes, this will change the game. But that's no reason to drown me. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
RDevz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
204
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:59:00 -
[1254] - Quote
Mona Zoid wrote: Remember when eve had no JF?
We had a nyx full of haulers, with the haulers full of stuff. Before that, we had carriers full of haulers. Good times~ ~ |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
825
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:59:00 -
[1255] - Quote
Lando Cenvax wrote: My typical jump-distance is 7,4LY which I use for hauling stuff. This will not be possible anymore after this ******** change. At least not without another Cyno. My fuel-efficient carrier does 6,5LY without skills and now you want to nerf that down to 5LY AFTER skills? And no, as "the small guy" I can't afford a Jump Freighter.
Not having atleast a 7.5LY base range, low penalty bubble, is going to have a lot of unintended and very negative side effects.
I've also realised a couple of other issues with capitals being able to use gates, 1 of them quite a big one :D |
Dracnys
72
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Posted - 2014.10.01 20:59:00 -
[1256] - Quote
Timers and waiting are not an appropriate way to make EVE more interesting. Why even bother working on reducing lag, or cutting downtime or session timers if you're introducing arbitrary waiting times anyway? The biggest barrier that keeps my RL friends from joining EVE is that it takes so long to do anything.
This is such a lame way of "balancing". It doesn't excite anyone. Nobody will say "Oh, cool, EVE has waiting timers for jumping now? I'll go reactivate my account, this gonna be fun!".
Try harder CCP, you can do better than this. |
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
2992
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 21:00:00 -
[1257] - Quote
Poultergoose4 wrote:BugraT WarheaD wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:Shayle wrote:Thank you CCP for having the balls to do this.
For anyone moaning about how tedious it will now be to travel across the map for a fight; that's the whole point! Find a fight closer to home, go reset your standings and destroy your neighbours because you're bored. Let chaos rule again.
For those moaning about not being able to jump bridge across their vast swathe of empty null sec space; that's the whole point! Downsize your sov space so you can move across it to defend it, and let someone else move in next door.
For those moaning about logistics challenges, we managed fine for years without jump bridges and jump freighters (including moving moongoo). Or if it's too much hassle for your alliance to hold half the bloody moons on the map, then don't hold them all - oh wait, maybe that's possibly the point?
How many of you actually remember back to the 2007/2008 era where multiple wars were happening across null sec? Fountain seemed like a million miles from Deklein, and you'd certainly never consider traveling all the way down to catch just for one fight.
Stop crying just because you're ******* lazy.
+1 on top of a like for you Sir. +2 so , cause I join you in this statement :) +3... Personally from a Merc point of view it will hurt us badly when moving, but that doesn't mean we can't adapt to it. Great changes. Looking forward to them being implemented. +4 because I love these changes- as with anything, it needs adjustment here and there, but this will change things for the better
"A City made of Wood is built in the forest; A City made of Stone is built in the mountains; But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven." GÖâ-áJovian Proverb-áGÖâ |
Yogsoloth
Percussive Diplomacy
151
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Posted - 2014.10.01 21:00:00 -
[1258] - Quote
These are all great changes.
It'll make it harder and less desireable for the mega blocs to hold onto soo much space. It'll force people to spread out and occupy the space they want to hold. It'll bring alot more small scale capital fights to lowsec and really alot of these otherwise empty pockets of space. It'll bring new entities to otherwise unoccupied areas of null. It's already created more tears than I can consume.
Sooo gud.
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flakeys
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2452
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Posted - 2014.10.01 21:00:00 -
[1259] - Quote
bp920091 wrote:Lord Mantus wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0? Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier.
Basically we didn't fully think of all the things this would effect before suggesting it, but who cares. Boldly going where no man has gone before!
Yeah god forbid the newbs have to try 3 times to get passed that one gate camp and loose a whooping 10 M due to clone and shiploss .We all know that after the entry pipe the rest of the trip no matter how many jumps is peanuts for the last 6 years.
The reasons stated why this can't/shouldn't be done from the players only shows CCP is actually finding where they went wrong over the last years and it looks like they are cleaning out those wrongdoings one by one now.Don't remove the ships you added just remove the abilities they shouldn't have to begin with.
Looks to me like CCP finally got it back on track , verry anxious to see the next change proposals.
The only thing i do disagree with is the new effect on JF's , they could loosen that one up a bit .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Ralitge boyter
European Crew.
2
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Posted - 2014.10.01 21:00:00 -
[1260] - Quote
Soridar Ravencroft wrote:OK...I know I don't always see the big picture in some issues, but as a cap pilot who actually uses my ships for basic moving, deploying of ships for diff PvE and other basic goofy null sec crap, THIS IS TOTAL CRAP...
This is a complete farce, and one in which it seems that the Devs responsible are either not cap pilots or just don't do anything other than point a..b..c..home and log, so they don't even have an iota of a clue as to the rest of the players they are screwing. These proposed changes are gonna hit the non sov aspects of EvE 1000% more than they will have any effect on sov warfare. I will break this down by points to clarify.
Effects on Joe the non combat cap pilot vs Sam the combat jockey:
Joe is always making jumps in his jump freighter to move and restock null while bringing goods from null to be traded in the hubs Sam makes a max of 5 jumps a day...if there is a combat op at all
Joe not only has a JF for trading but enjoys a side business of transporting the ships of some friends for PvE goofyness like incurtions and such Sam flies an interceptor looking for kills while not running his daily cap op, or just gate camps
Joe having one of the few JFs in his corp is called on for running POS fuel, moduals and system upgrades because no one else trained for it cause they wanted combat ships Sam doesn't worry cause dreads are never needed for moving crap
Joe goes on cap ops when ever he is free to do so in his carrier Sam goes on every cap op in his dread
This is a generalist look at how 2 cap pilots play the game, and while it doesn't represent everyone, it does fit a lot of pilots and how they play. So in the end what you really have is not nearly the nerf to combat projection but rather a significant nerf to trade, general game play and logistic capabilities.
If you really want to fix long distance force projection and the way in which capital ships are able to move and fight, then rather than some BS fatigue a pilot receives that changes a "jump cool down" instead have it effect combat skills and capabilities of the actual force being projected. I mean seriously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you wanna effect how combat is controlled you penalize the combat skills.
Penalizing jumping itself does nothing other than break down the ability to travel, for good or ill, which last time I heard is not really the real issue here. This seems more of an arbitrary step in reducing and removing capital ships from the field which will not happen as those alliances and coalitions which the numbers and resources will instead just move capitals in anyways. Pilots rarely pay for the fuel for these campaigns, but rather the alliances themselves, which means costs of travel is rarely a concern for major powers.
The real issue here is that forces can stage from nearly any place in EvE and with a proper chain get to anywhere in a matter of tens of minutes, but that means rather little, as Interceptors can do the same and even do so safer, if not faster. So what really is of concern is what kind of power projection can be applied at long range. This is the real issue and should be what is effected.
The way this can be done is to have fatigue effect combat skills, especially those that are based on PvP combat. This ensures that no matter the size of your pilot base or your wallet, that force projection is weakened. Secondly it prevents other areas of the game that are NOT out of balance to be penalized due to bad planning. Third it doesn't effect pilots who where out doing basic trading, logistics and ferrying friends, when the call goes out that you are needed for an op.
I think you have a point in that the JF pilots are hit quite hard by this. On the other hand is that so bad? It means fueling vast numbers of towers all over enormous swaths of space is going to be difficult. Thats not a bad thing in my book.
Making it harder to transport large amounts of material into deep 0.0 means simply that one will have to create a viable industrial base there with only the occasional move of goods in our out of your power base. This prevents over production will increase the risk to the pilots as they will need to move more goods the slow way and will therefore lead to more conflicts which is what the game is all about.
For me the only thing that I hear is I have a comfortable life the way I am now living therefore I want nothing to change and my near static income from jumping between a few cyno alts for a few minutes a day to continue fueling my ability to loose interceptors when PvP'ing. EVE is hard it is supposed ot be that way, loss is something that is good and that will just force people to come up with more creative and better ways of dealing with the risks involved. |
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