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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Yi Hyori
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:00:00 -
[1771] - Quote
I'm sure that CCP Greyscale has been keeping a close watch on what has been going on in this thread, as proven by the constant blue posts, but I'd like to still lay out my concerns that I and other players have. Most of these concerns have been put forward in this thread already, but I would like to still put in my 2cents to make sure these concerns are heard.
There are reddit threads forming about the math behind the jump fatigue and this was already addressed. Chain jumping, as silly as it would be with the new system, would easily cause fatigue lasting for years. Please put a cap on maximum fatigue as to prevent silly amounts of fatigue accumulating on characters. A maximum of a week would be my suggestion, but take that as you will.
Jump freighters and rorquals. The range nerf of a maximum of 5 light years seems to be super heavy handed and makes null logistics extremely hard. I can get behind leaving fatigue in for jump freighters as is, but I can't see a reason for the massive nerf to their jump range. Please take another look at this and see if the massive reduction of jump range is necessary for jump freighters along with other capitals. Also to note, due to the Rorqual's innate bonuses to its hull, there are already talks of battle rorquals on our alliance forums, so please keep that in mind when taking a look at these two ships.
Blops is heavily reliant on blops drops and lumping the jump fatigue to cover black ops seems like it may kill black ops completely. I understand that leaving blops as is with the current changes being implemented would be a massive buff for bombers and the already prevalent amount of bombers in nullsec would only increase. Their ability to punch far above their weight and deal with invading fleets make them incredibly strong and removing jump fatigue from blopsing would be a bad move. however, i still feel that there should still be some thought put into the final numbers of blops fatigue.
capitals taking gates seems to be an interesting approach to relieve the reliance on jump travel by capitals. I find that this may cause issues with certain types of gate camps being more prevalent in losec. Considering putting a spawn distance limiter by mass to gate travel as well with a minimum of 15km and a maximum of whatever devs feel would be good for balance similar to how wormhole mechanics were recently changed.
a statement on suicide clones being removed has already been addressed by CCP Greyscale, but I'd like to still mention that removing it completely from the game may hurt the entire playerbase rather than help. Simply putting a timer on changing your station to be tied together with jump clone timer or on a separate timer may be prudent.
personal thought as an addendum to the jf and rorq changes. with the reduction of supplies that can be imported from jita to the fringe systems of null, there is a severe supply bottleneck of hisec minerals available in nullsec. With the crius patch of adding a new source of mex and pyerite to nullsec ores and the increase to refine rates, the amount of minerals are still heavily skewed towards the high end materials that are just not needed in such amounts for any ships. CCP may want to take a look at the mineral distribution of nullsec ores if they really do wish for a diverse economy in null. Currently it seems that industry corps are relegated to mining in null, refining and using what they can and shipping out the high value ore and importing low value ore. I believe that with this reduction of megacyte, zydrine, noxium coming from hisec may hurt industry across the board. This of course includes moongoo. With the requirements of trying to move large amounts of moongoo into hisec to sell, will lower supply and thus increase prices.
I think i may have ranted a bit long, but these are the concerns i had after reading this devblog and thinking about it for the last couple of hours.
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Sigras
Conglomo
894
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:00:00 -
[1772] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Taram Caldar wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Can supers use gates after this change? Yes. Do you have any idea how amazingly game-breaking this is in lowsec? Seriously? Who thought this through? A ship that is immune to any form of tackle other than a heavy interdictor in lowsec can now agress all it likes... if hostiles show up it just de-agresses... jumps through the gate.... and cyno's out. Use a heavy interdictor then lol. That's what everyone in null sec has been having to do. This is, in fact, the reason that Heavy Interdictors were put into the game... Motherships (what supercariers were before the change) could deal 3000 DPS with fighters and then just cyno out of they got into trouble...
before heavy dictors, there was literally no way to stop them except for neut and bumping. Consider using the heavy dictor for what it was designed for. |
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
236
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:00:00 -
[1773] - Quote
If we're going full ******, then let's really go.
Open hisec to caps and supercaps, and make it so that any pilot can have the pending penalties removed from his character by flying, with no jumps, his or her cap/supercap out from nul to one of several objects in a .8 system somewhere and receiving special training (jovian jump pilot advanced implant insertion. probably painful, likely rectal). Can't hop into one that's already in hi or lowsec...have to fly it out. No jumping allowed, anywhere.
Oh, they should probably all be suspect-flagged as soon as they cross from low...if they aren't already at -5 or better.
Content, let's really have some. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
225
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:01:00 -
[1774] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Never underestimate goon economy of force.
And the chronic masochism of Goonswarm Offensive Logistics.
No matter how bad it is for the rest of null, we are willing to go the extra mile to keep everyone else as slaves.
Cept your just sheep. |
Lugor
Pegasus Security Services
8
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:01:00 -
[1775] - Quote
if CCP are open to other options what about:
Capitals still cant use gates Limit Jump range to 8 ly Add jump cooldown to 2 minutes for a carrier, 4 for Dread, JF and Rorq, 5 (higher?) for Supers and Titans Add extra fuel requirement for all Capital Class - Coolant as our lovely engines require so much energy to jump maybe they need actually cooled down?
There is bound to be someone that will complain even with that, but the force projection does need looking at, just not with the hammer ccp r suggesting.
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Rogue Clone t7403
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:02:00 -
[1776] - Quote
Needmore Longcat wrote:Is today April 1? Capitals taking gates? Jump fatigue? These are some of the worst ideas.
How is a stagnant nullsec going to be fixed by making things take even longer than they do already? How does that make any sense at all?
Absolutely terrible.
Caps are meant to use jump drives to travel not to use gates i agree bad Ideas |
Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
94
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:03:00 -
[1777] - Quote
FalconX Blast wrote:This thread is some of the best content generation to come from CCP :-) This dev blog has increased the CFC smug to dangerous levels, our egos really didn't need this buff, but thanks! CFC / Goon opinions are actually quite split, with some screaming bloody murder and threatening to unsub, while others claiming that it only reinforces their dominance. |
TheButcherPete
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
503
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:03:00 -
[1778] - Quote
CCP, we screamed when you issued the jump fuel nerf, and in comparison to this, it's insignificant.
I don't know what you're picturing, but if you proceed on this course, you will arrive to a barren game.
I have lost hope in your ability to work with the playerbase to improve the game, you just seem do do your own thing.
I'm wishing I hadn't resubbed two alts this morning. THE KING OF EVE RADIO
If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs? |
Aleks Cave
Black Water Oasis
29
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:03:00 -
[1779] - Quote
See, all you fekkers make fun of Proviblock...
BUT WE DONT SEE THEM COMPLAINING ABOUT TRAVEL CHANGES IN HERE, NOW DO WE?!?!??!
Damm panzies! |
Robert Fortis
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:03:00 -
[1780] - Quote
I find it funny that most of the whining and wailing and gnashing of teeth comes from the major power blocs. Of course goons and NC. and PL and BL are going to be talking about the 11ty billion accounts they'll let expire, they're the ones who won't be able to have this ridiculous monolithic control over the entirety of the map anymore, and drop capitals ships on frigate gangs from two regions away.
That being said, it's not all roses. JF bros and newbros trying to get to null could use a hand, and who knows, maybe 5 light years is a bit too short. But it's not as if the patch is happening tomorrow; there will be plenty of time to yell at CCP until they get it right.
But still, try and stop thinking about these changes as if they were being dropped into the current environment. They will cause a massive change to the order of the galaxy, and you need to think about them in context of that new situation.
Imagine a world where you won't have to jump your caps halfway across the galaxy to find fights. A world where the vast majority of space isn't a supersafe carebear paradise, because anything bigger than an atron gets dropped by bored cap pilots. A world where the largest ships in the game can't traverse space faster than the smallest and fastest. A world where you actually have enemies, and not just people you blow up for funsies when you're sick of ratting. This is the world we're moving towards with these changes. They may not be perfect, but they're a step in the right direction and a damn sight better than more stagnation. Keep crying, powerblocs. I'll be out there having fun. |
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Rynnik
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
119
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:03:00 -
[1781] - Quote
Poultergoose4 wrote:BugraT WarheaD wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:Shayle wrote:Thank you CCP for having the balls to do this.
For anyone moaning about how tedious it will now be to travel across the map for a fight; that's the whole point! Find a fight closer to home, go reset your standings and destroy your neighbours because you're bored. Let chaos rule again.
For those moaning about not being able to jump bridge across their vast swathe of empty null sec space; that's the whole point! Downsize your sov space so you can move across it to defend it, and let someone else move in next door.
For those moaning about logistics challenges, we managed fine for years without jump bridges and jump freighters (including moving moongoo). Or if it's too much hassle for your alliance to hold half the bloody moons on the map, then don't hold them all - oh wait, maybe that's possibly the point?
How many of you actually remember back to the 2007/2008 era where multiple wars were happening across null sec? Fountain seemed like a million miles from Deklein, and you'd certainly never consider traveling all the way down to catch just for one fight.
Stop crying just because you're ******* lazy.
+1 on top of a like for you Sir. +2 so , cause I join you in this statement :) +3... Personally from a Merc point of view it will hurt us badly when moving, but that doesn't mean we can't adapt to it. Great changes. Looking forward to them being implemented.
+4 as it is nice to see at least a little bit of reason applied to some of the potential consequences of this proposed change!
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
900
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:03:00 -
[1782] - Quote
MASSADEATH wrote: wrong...cause we will know what systems are in range of thier "local" forces...and stay just out of range of those... already planning what systems are 5ly+ away to start the attacks, if it holds it gives us a 11min window to kill things approx
we already watch their Titans and how many are ready to bridge....only this time we know either they will be out of range...or know it will take a fixed time to reach the engagement.... of which we can plan around...
its PURE GOLD
man i cannot wait till you realize just how badly you ****** up |
Aleks Cave
Black Water Oasis
34
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:04:00 -
[1783] - Quote
this makes me wanna go back to providence again.... |
Chirality Tisteloin
Zervas Aeronautics The Bastion
45
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:04:00 -
[1784] - Quote
Yi Hyori wrote: There are reddit threads forming about the math behind the jump fatigue and this was already addressed. Chain jumping, as silly as it would be with the new system, would easily cause fatigue lasting for years. Please put a cap on maximum fatigue as to prevent silly amounts of fatigue accumulating on characters. A maximum of a week would be my suggestion, but take that as you will.
Replacing exponential growth of fatigue with logistic growth would do the trick nicely. Also give designers two parameters to tune the system. For details see post #1703 in this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5073161#post5073161 See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/ |
Sered Woollahra
No Fixed Abode Cult of War
29
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:05:00 -
[1785] - Quote
So CCP saw it fit to kill off Blops...
...but afk cloaky camping remains perfectly viable.
Good job, CCP, good job..
Blops can be avoided and countered: be alert, stay aligned et cetera. There's no viable counter measure against cloaky camping. Please explain why killing off blops is a good thing, instead of killing off cloaky camping?
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
1050
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:05:00 -
[1786] - Quote
Ok so here is the tl;dr of constructive ideas.
Have a fatigue cap. Make it 2-5 hours or something.
JF range should be increased.
Cool down on fatigue should be .25 instead of 1.
Fatigue should scale based on the size of the capital, not a flat rate.
Jump range should be between 6-10 light years.
Additional skills to speed up cool down timer on fatigue. |
Edgarr Friendly
Spirit of Setarip
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:05:00 -
[1787] - Quote
This sounds like they are bringing the worst parts of a free to play MMO (cooldowns timers, etc) and including it in a subscription based MMO. I wanted to move to nullsec at some point but being in a small corp This will make it really hard to get in and out. |
Kiatae
Gypsy Fan Club Clever Use of Neutral Toons
29
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:05:00 -
[1788] - Quote
Oh if they gonna be able to use gates why dont you enable them to dock in stations? So players can store them before they leave this game. |
Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
166
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:05:00 -
[1789] - Quote
gascanu wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Makari Aeron wrote:As it stands, I believe this plan, while interesting is going to kill off T2 production in EVE, especially nullsec. There is no possible way to move large quantities of moongoo easily anymore. It's going to have a significant impact, to be sure, and that's something we need to keep an eye on. At the same time, though, people built T2 ships and modules before jump freighters existed, so we're somewhat skeptical of the argument that that T2 construction is impossible without JFs. really? really??? do i need to remind you that before JFs existed you where able to move 60k-90k m3 of stuff with a dread or carrier? do i need to remind you that when you first introduced the damn jfs, no one was really using them? that you guys had to do a number of nerfs on carriers and dreads so that ppl will finally start using jfs in large numbers? and now you are telling us this crap? where you even working at ccp when that change happent?
Grayscale, do you not remember that t2 ships cost 10x as much as they do now for this very reason? |
DeadDuck
Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire
111
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:05:00 -
[1790] - Quote
Aryth wrote: It actually works in the opposite way right now. Defenders have a massive advantage with current mechanics. Those who own SOV today and can reasonably respond within a few days can easily hold it if they want.
.
Yep, for now defenders will have the up hand but CCP is just starting to change 0.0 mechanics. Give it time to see what comes next.
For now the renter empires are just dead. The Big renter enthities like NC. and PL just dont have the numbers to be everywhere at the same time.
The CFC alliances far away from the main cluster will also find them selves pretty much alone to face an attack from some other alliances looking to take some land. Today like it is, these 2 situations would be pretty much impossible to happen.
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veolias
Skyjack industries
0
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:06:00 -
[1791] - Quote
WOW, what a bad move.
Can we at least have a module that increases jump drive distance ? only able to be fittted to carrier / JF / Rorq ?
Maybe something that you could stack, but was too big to have more than 2 in a carrier fleet hanger. Or even if it was just able to be fitted to logistic ships. then at least we would have a choice of distance / tank / cargo capacity |
Aleks Cave
Black Water Oasis
34
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:06:00 -
[1792] - Quote
WTS Pacifiers, 250m per pacifier
SWEEET JESUS, STFU!!! |
Zel Juk
Reproduction Inc.
2
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:06:00 -
[1793] - Quote
Most of the tears in this thread seem to be a general knee-jerk fear of change,
No one has any idea how these changes will pan out once implemented. Everyone saying they do is either lying, talking out of their arse, or a total idiot.
Many eve players spend vast quantities of their time and effort complaining that CCP have been reluctant to make big changes, preferring tinkering and balancing, which is a valid point.
CCP have come up with a fairly ballsy change that will certainly change things. For good or bad (I'll say again WE HAVE NO IDEA) cudos to CCP for having the balls to make dramatic changes to EVEs greatest asset, that unfortunately have been rendered safe and predictable.
We all need to get over Incana. We have to let CCP make the changes they feel are necessary. They are some of the few people involved in this game who do not have a personal interest in a set of specific game mechanics. I'd sooner listen to them than a bunch of nulbear shills just reacting without considering the game as a whole.
I know things will eventually slide into another comfortable predictable formulaic nul-sec, but it'll be interesting for the months when everyone is still working it out, at the very least. |
Builder AlphaOne
Imperial Guardians Skeleton Crew.
2
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:06:00 -
[1794] - Quote
84 pages and counting. Looks like the scowls lead the grins by at least three to one.
toward the end, one poster finally got the effect on logistics right -- when you can't resupply most of null by jumping out there with a JF, your coalition or alliance will find it NECESSARY to control both sides of the few star gates that allow you to control your supply line.
For example: HERO will absolutely have to control both HED-GP and Keberz. They'll literally have to have capital ships and fleets of subcaps pre-positioned in both systems to fight -- because without that control, they can't resupply themselves and that would mean that they're dead.
*** Get out the universe map and check to see how many null regions can actually be reached by any jump of less than 5 light years. Dang few.
Then count the number of places where a long range star gate connection makes it possible to get out to null -- EVERY ONE of those system pairs is going to become a battle zone -- practically all the time.
*** Having entry and egress to null controlled by the biggest coalitions will absolutely KILL all of the smaller outfits in null. They'll be unable to resupply at all; they can dock only in NRDS and NPC regions already and thus are cut off from the markets.
***
And for you ccp supporters in this -- I remember when Fountain had only two ways to get in and the Fountain Alliance gate camped both of those entry ways 24/7. And that was before a large mobile warp disruptor could be plunked down to cover the entire 15km radius sphere of anyone jumping in. Who'll be able to get through at all when those bubbles are protected by 50 or more guys 24/7?? a few interceptors, maybe. Won't matter if a cloaky SB manages to sneak in -- because the range of a blops drop isn't long enough to get any substantial force in behind them.
Null will become more the exclusive province of the huge alliances and the small guys will be squeezed out of even Great Wildlands.
***
in math terms, reducing JF range like this will severely reduce connectivity between regions. That focuses traffic and value into the far fewer connections left. Which will, of necessity, lead to incessant fighting in those connections, which will be won by the people who can bring in the largest forces. Which surely isn't the smaller groups.
Recommendation -- back to the drawing board for CCP and CSM.
-- older than dirt. older than EVE, too. |
Bradford Clear
Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking
45
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:07:00 -
[1795] - Quote
So I'm slightly happy about the changes. Only if I can DD people in low sec. Everything else is stupid about the patch lol. Jump fatigue... Now I'll need 20 Titan pilots to bridge my fleet around. |
Marc Durant
161
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:07:00 -
[1796] - Quote
I bet the 0.0 sock puppet CSMs are lobbying like mad atm. Yes, yes-áI am. Thanks for noticing.
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zentary
Wrath of Angels Vanguard.
4
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:08:00 -
[1797] - Quote
So what about people who live in 00? what kind of bullshit is this to the people who live deep in nullsec? how are they supposed to move anything around? What about those that live in the npc nullsec?
First you make it cost more to do jumps now your going to cut our jump range by a third and add a timer...
Do you people even think? |
Kun'ii Zenya
The Executives Executive Outcomes
28
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:08:00 -
[1798] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Dear CCP,
Why do you keep letting Greyscale work on nullsec mechanics? No CCP developer has a longer and more storied history of making bad changes to nullsec. He has no understanding of why nullsec works the way it does or how a given change will affect it. Worse, he seems to believe that he does.
These changes make power projection more painful and a bit slower, again promoting those players willing to endure the worst Eve has to offer. They successfully stop the fast reaction capital fleets from crossing the galaxy but at a great cost to everything else in nullsec, and have little effect on the ability of capital fleets to show up on a schedule.
These changes are not the power projection nerf advertised. They are being used to backdoor revamping nullsec into some 2005 era "freighter escort ops" vision of nullsec that nobody wants except for the people who want to see nullsec dead.
Can someone maybe convince Riot to hire Greyscale for the sake of Eve?
I have to say the idea of trying to break up the existing power blocks by making it harder to simultaneously both attack and defend strikes me as a bad idea.
Making logistics harder for the deeper regions of null also strikes me as a bad idea too. To live there the people will need to have some sort of agreement in place with those who control null closer to empire to secure both their imports and exports.
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Pavlakakos
W.A.S.P Curatores Veritatis Alliance
11
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:08:00 -
[1799] - Quote
Aleks Cave wrote:See, all you fekkers make fun of Proviblock...
BUT WE DONT SEE THEM COMPLAINING ABOUT TRAVEL CHANGES IN HERE, NOW DO WE?!?!??!
Damm panzies!
Nope. We actually love the idea of fighting BNI on even terms, without the PL batphone dropping 20 supers to save them :P
Besides, provi borders hisec. Less than 5 LY :P
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
901
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:09:00 -
[1800] - Quote
Summer Isle wrote:FalconX Blast wrote:This thread is some of the best content generation to come from CCP :-) This dev blog has increased the CFC smug to dangerous levels, our egos really didn't need this buff, but thanks! CFC / Goon opinions are actually quite split, with some screaming bloody murder and threatening to unsub, while others claiming that it only reinforces their dominance. to be fair our intelligent enemies are agreeing this reinforces our dominance
it is not just us saying it |
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