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Justin Thyme
Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 12:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Justin Thyme on 10/08/2006 12:48:46 I want to know who has all the Hammerhead 2 BPO's. IÆm thinking a multi Alliance force needs to find these guys in space and have a "chat" with them. You can only get these kinds of prices by one person (corp./alliance) having them all, or by all the ones having them choosing to work together to keep the price high. I mean the base price on these is under 100k and they are selling for 1.6 to 2 mil. This is in Empire space.
Looks like a bad seeding of the BPO here. The other T2 Mediums aren't even close to being this over priced. Heavy T2Æs cost less.
"Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme
I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.10 12:49:00 -
[2]
Demand go up, supply stay same, price go up. This happens whether one person owns all the bpo's, or nobody has more than one. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.10 12:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Bhaal on 10/08/2006 12:50:18 CCP needs to break these obvious monopolies...
If the profit margin from base exceeds a certain percentage, they need to relesae more BPO's until the prices come in line...
This has really gone on far too long...
The BPO seeding needs to be more dynamic IMO... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Justin Thyme
Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 12:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Justin Thyme on 10/08/2006 12:52:41
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Demand go up, supply stay same, price go up. This happens whether one person owns all the bpo's, or nobody has more than one.
The suppy of them is fine. They take no time to make. And there are tons of them on the market. This is all artificial inflation "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme
I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:00:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bhaal
CCP needs to break these obvious monopolies...
If the profit margin from base exceeds a certain percentage, they need to relesae more BPO's until the prices come in line...
This has really gone on far too long...
The BPO seeding needs to be more dynamic IMO...
Invention is already going to solve that problem by raising supply on the most overvalued items...
I don't understand why everyone wants Hammerheads. They're not that great.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Bhaal
CCP needs to break these obvious monopolies...
If the profit margin from base exceeds a certain percentage, they need to relesae more BPO's until the prices come in line...
This has really gone on far too long...
The BPO seeding needs to be more dynamic IMO...
Invention is already going to solve that problem by raising supply on the most overvalued items...
I don't understand why everyone wants Hammerheads. They're not that great.
I'm a bit skeptical about the whole invention thing.
Seems to me when the profit margin tanks enough, using Invention to make your own T2 items will cost more than just buying them from those who have the BPO...
So you can train up a boatload of skills, and they will only be useful for a short period of time... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bhaal
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Bhaal
CCP needs to break these obvious monopolies...
If the profit margin from base exceeds a certain percentage, they need to relesae more BPO's until the prices come in line...
This has really gone on far too long...
The BPO seeding needs to be more dynamic IMO...
Invention is already going to solve that problem by raising supply on the most overvalued items...
I don't understand why everyone wants Hammerheads. They're not that great.
I'm a bit skeptical about the whole invention thing.
Seems to me when the profit margin tanks enough, using Invention to make your own T2 items will cost more than just buying them from those who have the BPO...
So you can train up a boatload of skills, and they will only be useful for a short period of time...
No, the point of invention is that its limited. Only enough volume will be possible to affect a small number of items. Most T2 items will not be affected. Cap IIs, for example, will probably tank because that will be the first thing that everyone rushes to make. But when they only make 2m profit, people will go make 1mn MWD IIs, and so on, until all of the most insanely overpriced items have dropped to "reasonable" margins. These margins may still be quite high (millions) but not tens of millions.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Justin Thyme Edited by: Justin Thyme on 10/08/2006 12:52:41
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Demand go up, supply stay same, price go up. This happens whether one person owns all the bpo's, or nobody has more than one.
The suppy of them is fine. They take no time to make. And there are tons of them on the market.
Then there is no problem. If people are willing to pay current prices, they will. If they aren't, the sellers will make no money, and be forced to drop the prices in order to sell.
Even if you HAVE a total monopoly, you STILL cannot buck the market. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:09:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Bhaal on 10/08/2006 13:10:18
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Bhaal
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Bhaal
CCP needs to break these obvious monopolies...
If the profit margin from base exceeds a certain percentage, they need to relesae more BPO's until the prices come in line...
This has really gone on far too long...
The BPO seeding needs to be more dynamic IMO...
Invention is already going to solve that problem by raising supply on the most overvalued items...
I don't understand why everyone wants Hammerheads. They're not that great.
I'm a bit skeptical about the whole invention thing.
Seems to me when the profit margin tanks enough, using Invention to make your own T2 items will cost more than just buying them from those who have the BPO...
So you can train up a boatload of skills, and they will only be useful for a short period of time...
No, the point of invention is that its limited. Only enough volume will be possible to affect a small number of items. Most T2 items will not be affected. Cap IIs, for example, will probably tank because that will be the first thing that everyone rushes to make. But when they only make 2m profit, people will go make 1mn MWD IIs, and so on, until all of the most insanely overpriced items have dropped to "reasonable" margins. These margins may still be quite high (millions) but not tens of millions.
I guess it depends on how long, and how many inventors it takes to drive down prices...
I have a character ready to pounce on this, so I'm very interested...
(Think of all the other T2 lottery haters who are rdy to pounce as well...) ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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JP Beauregard
Gallente Pilkington Communications
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:17:00 -
[10]
I don't quite get why people would ever pay money for ridiculously overpriced T2 drones when rats will voluntarily give you a nearly unlimited supply of FREE T1 drones that you can just afford to lose.
Boycott the muppets.
**** PILCO - We Service Brains of All Sizes **** |
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Powder Monkey
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:19:00 -
[11]
CCP is a dictatorship alliance !!
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Zaphod Jones
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:24:00 -
[12]
well I know where two of the Hammerhead II BPO's are, and I get my drones from them at very nice prices.
this helps as I keep losing them
zaphod
pics of Eris without her pink bits |
Justin Thyme
Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Zaphod Jones well I know where two of the Hammerhead II BPO's are, and I get my drones from them at very nice prices.
this helps as I keep losing them
zaphod
Who are they and what do you consider "nice prices" ? "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme
I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 10/08/2006 12:50:18 CCP needs to break these obvious monopolies...
If the profit margin from base exceeds a certain percentage, they need to relesae more BPO's until the prices come in line...
This has really gone on far too long...
The BPO seeding needs to be more dynamic IMO...
Why?
The selling price is never going to be more than people are willing to pay.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Justin Thyme
Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Avon
Why?
The selling price is never going to be more than people are willing to pay.
Willing and have no choice but to pay are 2 differnt things. They've trained the skill and don't want to waste the training. And all of these folks are inflating the price. NO choice. "Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme
I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Bhaal on 10/08/2006 14:28:01
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 10/08/2006 12:50:18 CCP needs to break these obvious monopolies...
If the profit margin from base exceeds a certain percentage, they need to relesae more BPO's until the prices come in line...
This has really gone on far too long...
The BPO seeding needs to be more dynamic IMO...
Why?
The selling price is never going to be more than people are willing to pay.
Well, CCP would not be looking to implement invention & reverse engineering if they thought the status quo was ok...
Only T2 ships I use are the ones my Corp has the BPO's for, I'd never consider outright buying any T2 ship... I'm sure a lot of ppl feel the same way, hence the price IS too high for many players IMO... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Kilo Paskaa
Thugs 4 less
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Bhaal
CCP needs to break these obvious monopolies...
If the profit margin from base exceeds a certain percentage, they need to relesae more BPO's until the prices come in line...
This has really gone on far too long...
The BPO seeding needs to be more dynamic IMO...
Invention is already going to solve that problem by raising supply on the most overvalued items...
I don't understand why everyone wants Hammerheads. They're not that great.
Biggest damage modifier. around 1.9 i remember correctly.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Justin Thyme
Willing and have no choice but to pay are 2 differnt things.
Yes, they are. People do have a choice, and they choose to pay.
If they didn't pay, the prices would drop (or the producers would end up making no money)
Just because I have a driving license does not mean that Porsche should sell me a car for the same price as my BMW.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:43:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Bhaal on 10/08/2006 14:43:41
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Justin Thyme
Willing and have no choice but to pay are 2 differnt things.
Yes, they are. People do have a choice, and they choose to pay.
If they didn't pay, the prices would drop (or the producers would end up making no money)
Just because I have a driving license does not mean that Porsche should sell me a car for the same price as my BMW.
Well, real world Monoploies are bad, Mkay... And governments come down on them...
Looks like CCP (EVE Government) is going to finally act on the matter...
We'll see what happens.
I for one hope the days of 500% profit gouging never return... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:47:00 -
[20]
A monopoly only holds power if it supplies required goods or services. T2 is not required.
A monopoly with no customers still fails.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Andargor theWise
Disbelievers of Fate
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Andargor theWise on 10/08/2006 14:53:26
Originally by: Kilo Paskaa
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I don't understand why everyone wants Hammerheads. They're not that great.
Biggest damage modifier. around 1.9 i remember correctly.
Thermal damage only, less effective against a lot of rats, and always tanked in PvP.
Tracking and range profiles are different for each drone type, some hit from further, some hit more on fast moving targets. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
The problem is that we don't have accurate stats on the damage drones deal, hence everyone throw themselves on the highest damage mod.
Their mistake to make, and T2 owners to benefit from. Point is, the price is as high as people are willing to pay.
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Justin Thyme
Gallente Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Justin Thyme
Willing and have no choice but to pay are 2 differnt things.
Yes, they are. People do have a choice, and they choose to pay.
If they didn't pay, the prices would drop (or the producers would end up making no money)
Just because I have a driving license does not mean that Porsche should sell me a car for the same price as my BMW.
And there is a moral difference between Extortion and profit. They buy them because they need them. And the price is where it is because of racketeering and collusion. If you have T2 drone skills there is no ...Less expensive alterative. Other than learning a different races drones. And even those are inflated, but not as much. So your driverÆs license bit doesn't work. This situation is more like this. You spent money to go from driving a motorcycle to learning to drive a car And porche is the only person making cars. Or Porche and Audie and Bill are the only ones making the only car you can use with your new licence. And all 3 have decided that they have you by the short hairs so they are going to extort you for the money. A little differnt than choicing between a porche and a bmw. OR a chevy.
This is a true and artificialy inflated market.
"Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme
I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme |
Krulla
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:53:00 -
[23]
If you don't want to pay 1,6 million for a Hammerhead, don't. It's as simple as that. Noone is forcing you to buy them. It's a free market.
I don't see why Hammerheads are so awesome though.. they are ****e for PvP, and there's only really one rat faction where they are better than the others.
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:54:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Bhaal on 10/08/2006 14:54:18
Originally by: Avon A monopoly only holds power if it supplies required goods or services. T2 is not required.
A monopoly with no customers still fails.
So all the oil companies who are merging & price gouging do not hold a Monopoly?
Some would argue with you that T2 is as necessary as filling up your gas tank and going to work.
T2 has been in the game long enough now, where it no longer needs to be only for the top 1%...
T2 is becoming a requirement for 0.0 alliance warfare... Just like gas is a requirement for me to drive to work everyday.
I have no public transportation that could do that for me, so driving myself is a requirement...
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Demand go up, supply stay same, price go up. This happens whether one person owns all the bpo's, or nobody has more than one.
Supply is purposely limited... thus demand goes up. CCP needs a way for these bpos to be limited. Rather a license to create X amount in X amount of time. If you dont build them, the bpo is trashed and tossed out again to another player. This would solve mnay problems.
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Matori Kar
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Posted - 2006.08.10 15:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Avon A monopoly only holds power if it supplies required goods or services. T2 is not required.
A monopoly with no customers still fails.
Alliances with their own T2 BPOs can produce to alliance members at cost (which is pretty cheap). Alliances without certain BPOs need to buy finished products from the market (up to 1000% mark up on some items). Alliance A uses loads of cheap self produced T2 items, Alliance B, C and D need to buy said items in order to COMPETE on an equal basis.....NEED!!
Silly boy, you can't use RL ideas of supply and demand in EVE, the economy, especially in relation to T2 production, bares absolutely no resemblance to RL.
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JP Moregain
Gallente Moregain Guaranty Trust
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Posted - 2006.08.10 15:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Avon A monopoly only holds power if it supplies required goods or services. T2 is not required.
A monopoly with no customers still fails.
Sir,
You might want to brush up on your Economics. You can have a monopoly that does not supply required goods and it still can earn 'excess' profits.
The market could clearly become more efficient for some of the T2 items without driving people from producing same (and if that happened the price would go up again...)
"In JP We Trust, All Others Require Collateral..." |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 15:18:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Avon on 10/08/2006 15:19:42
Originally by: Matori Kar
Originally by: Avon A monopoly only holds power if it supplies required goods or services. T2 is not required.
A monopoly with no customers still fails.
Alliances with their own T2 BPOs can produce to alliance members at cost (which is pretty cheap). Alliances without certain BPOs need to buy finished products from the market (up to 1000% mark up on some items). Alliance A uses loads of cheap self produced T2 items, Alliance B, C and D need to buy said items in order to COMPETE on an equal basis.....NEED!!
Silly boy, you can't use RL ideas of supply and demand in EVE, the economy, especially in relation to T2 production, bares absolutely no resemblance to RL.
The alliances who own lots of T2 BPOs, BOUGHT them. They paid up front for the advantage. The other alliances which did not buy BPOs have to pay the price on purchase.
It doesn't matter if the expense if front or back loaded, it is still there for both.
If anything the alliance which buys BPOs is taking the bigger risk for their advantage, because full ROI may take longer than the advantage lasts.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 15:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: JP Moregain
Originally by: Avon A monopoly only holds power if it supplies required goods or services. T2 is not required.
A monopoly with no customers still fails.
Sir,
You might want to brush up on your Economics. You can have a monopoly that does not supply required goods and it still can earn 'excess' profits.
I never said otherwise. I said they lacked power, not profit.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Matori Kar
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Posted - 2006.08.10 15:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
maybe itÆs time that T2 become a sort of baseline
Linkage
Maybe CCP do realise that the present system has become plain silly and out of date, I dont hold out much hope for the Invention system though...
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