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Wittgenstein ii
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Posted - 2006.08.11 03:53:00 -
[1]
three friends and i just got done with the 14 day trial and thought we'd share some thoughts from a prospective player standpoint. being on vacation from our jobs and wives, we did our best to dabble in as many aspects of EVE as we could during the 14 days. hence we played quite a bit... (showers and healthy meals were sporadic and fully optional). we won't be buying accounts for some of the following reasons.
the analogy between Eve and an art museum seemed accurate, because while the backdrop of EVE is full of beautiful images, none can be interacted with and none affect the game experience in any way. similarly, i also got bored after an hour of walking through the louvre hehe. EVE just has no sense of environment or place and thus no sense of wonder or exploration. With all the possible stellar phenomena to emulate, we wondered why none of them were represented. Autopiloting over and over through star systems whose only differences were the security level and type of asteroid belt while afk is just not an engaging experience for new players.
we all love PVP and were excited to get into some space battles but after joining a corp and fighting in a handful of battles, the reports from veteran players about repetitive strategies like stargate camping, POS spam, etc. seemed to dampen our enthusiasm.
the interface was also an annoyance to us, lacking real customizability or intuitive control. we were not looking for WoW type customizing which trivializes the game but it could certainly use an overhaul.
EVE is an enigmatic experience. we liked quite a bit of the game such as the ship fitting and skill training systems; but how they are implemented into the gameworld seems shallow. We love the open-ended approach to MMO's but in this case we think EVE's open-endedness is too deeply coupled with "lack of content". we understand that EVE is still being developed and could easily address these areas of the game.
we also admit its presumptous of us to comment this far into a game after only 2 weeks but to its credit, EVE allows you to engage in many aspects of the game quite quickly. but for what its worth, these are the experiences of 3 trial players.
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Firane
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.11 04:17:00 -
[2]
Have fun in WoW.
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Jex Jast
Perfect Order
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Posted - 2006.08.11 04:20:00 -
[3]
We (well at least I) thank you for your input.
I don't really know what else to say, because my experience is different entirely. Sure I have to AP through systems (not anymore as I'm KOS to everyone) but there's adventure and loot within each system. One might just need to get into it more.
I am also driven by roleplay, all three of my characters (one account) are named and designed for characters in a book that I am currently writing, and the story and Eve effect each other now, keeping it very interesting.
Good luck in whatever you pursue next. ___________________________________________
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Firane
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.11 04:24:00 -
[4]
Honestly the 14 day trial is nowhere near enough time to see even a tenth of what Eve has to offer, nor was it designed to be a time period of determining whether to stay or to go. To get a real sense of what Eve is about you need at least a month or two.
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Muthsera
S.A.S
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Posted - 2006.08.11 04:29:00 -
[5]
It just goes to show that EVE isn't everyones favorite piece of pie.
Now personally I do not agree whit that you said. I think EVE have some of the most well thought out and balanced experiance there is. Maybe apart from the missions there is a clear risk vs reward system. And the pure level of intregue that you find in this game can only be contributed to the open ended game it is. Set apart from all other games EVE lets you daple in the fine art of economics, war, strategy, politics and just pure power. No other game let you have that kind of intregue. Atleast as far as I've experianced. It's like the world finest chessboard. Where everyone is playing at ones. Truely awsome. Now the fine art in eve escapes you becus you have only been here for 14 days max. I'm not trying to do an advertisement. But honnestly. In those 14 days you cannot possibly start to imagine the scale of stuff. Hell. It took me a month to even get into a bs. And everything before that bleaked in conparison. Most players don't really start getting a real feel for how the game really is before they are atleast a couple of months. Many never do. There is more to eve than gatecamping, mission running and fleet fights.
You just need to look for it, and if you don't find it. Do what you like to do. When we look at the UI, I don't really agree either. It preforms it's function quite well and a hell of a lot better than it used to. You just need to learn how to navigate it proporly. Also. The scanner is your best friend. Best thing about it is, it's free.
But the nr one thing that hoocked me was the Fleet battles. That my friend is something unique to eve. Pure and simple. The andrenaline rush that first fleetbattle gives you is just imense. And you shouldn't belive a game could give you that. Nothing is quite like having 40 ppl shot at your 500mill ship.
Now. You can say many things about all the other games. And I'm sure they preform up to standards. But EVE is and will always be unique. There is no other game even remotely like it. And in the future, all other space games will be compared to this one. That I'm quite sure about.
Rabble
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Evelyn Lavi
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Posted - 2006.08.11 04:38:00 -
[6]
While I agree that EvE can be a big, empty expanse (hell, you should have seen it during beta!) it is silly to demand that outer space be more "interactive." Do you want big, goopy nebula monsters that lash out at you?
I don't say this often, and I don't want this to sound mean, but if you need more "wow gee whiz" factor, WoW has it in abundance. It's a themepark, complete with a hand to hold you through it, from 1 to 60.
Which sucks, in my opinion.
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Skraelingz
Gallente Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.11 05:02:00 -
[7]
It is also not as if the game cannot be modified to add more stuff to the enviroment either to add to its interactivity.
This is an mmo after all. As time and technology allow im sure all sorts of cool crap will be added its just a matter of time.
Thats why i like this mmo and went to two paid accounts after less than a week playing the trial. So much room to grow and expand and add things.
I see a good promise in this game. -----------------------------------------------
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Anwyl
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.11 05:06:00 -
[8]
Eve is good IMHO if you want to be a part of something greater. WoW is good (well not really, but stay with me here) if you want to be TEH L33TES7... In eve you may not become the best character in the game after a week, but you'll probably have at least found a corp and be involved in changing something significant... Just TRY doing that in any other MMO
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Epislona
Minmatar Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2006.08.11 05:08:00 -
[9]
[flame ON] OMG u mean i am not uber the day i start playing, i have to play for a long time to be 1337... screw that ... i am going to go play a game with instant gratification and no long term benifit to time investment. [flame OFF]
seriously though... 2 weeks isn't enough time to get into eve at all.. they do the 2 week trial to leave you wanting more... once you start to see the cool things that you can do as your character progresses you should want to keep playing... also, POS spam affects a small number of PVP'ers... even when there is a spam war going on, there will still be some PVP to be had in local, some cat and mouse game going on with some of the people in the war.
I agree that gate camping can be terrifically boring, but if you camp the right systems it can also be quite exciting, as a hostile gang put together to take out your camp might show up... you might lose your ship/pod you might not.. but i guarentee you that your heart rate goes through the roof as a gang of hostiles decloaks and starts targeting you... if that isn't fun PVP... nothing is.
There is no "lack of content" that you describe. however... to get to the content you might need to play for say, a month, year or more. there are people who specialize in anything you can think of... and the people who are good at what they do make shipfulls of isk at whatever it is that they do. From trading, to mineing, to being a builder, to being a purely NPC fighter/mission runner, to being a low sec POS operater, to pure PVPer and so many other "careers" that this game can have... the possibilitys are endless... you simply lacked the skills, or perception to see them. "You Are Not Special" |
Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.11 05:40:00 -
[10]
Some players just can't stand to see any criticism of their game. Well, I've been playing for over a year and I agree with Wittgenstein that the Eve environment is rather limited. Sometimes it feels like we're playing a massively multiplayer version of Hunt the Wumpus.
Eve does a lot of things well. But it isn't the alpha and omega of online games. It may be the best space game, but it's not like there's much in the way of competition for that title.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.11 05:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Epislona pointless justifications
Did you read your own post? It's so full of "might" and "some" and "maybe" that it pretty much proves the OP's point. If you want action, EVE is not the place to be. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.11 06:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Firane Honestly the 14 day trial is nowhere near enough time to see even a tenth of what Eve has to offer, nor was it designed to be a time period of determining whether to stay or to go. To get a real sense of what Eve is about you need at least a month or two.
Sounds like either you, or CCP, has completely misunderstood the meaning of the word "trial." I suspect the latter. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
xeom
Obsidian Sins
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Posted - 2006.08.11 06:10:00 -
[13]
PVP was boring? I guess for alliance's.The real funs in low-sec matey
BTW if you would be so kind to send me all the isk you made during this time.
CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? | Join[..SIN] |
Nukeitall
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Posted - 2006.08.11 06:22:00 -
[14]
Using big words does not make you smart. --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly. |
TheDeceit
Minmatar Veto.
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Posted - 2006.08.11 06:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: xeom PVP was boring? I guess for alliance's.The real funs in low-sec matey
Truth. --------
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Wild Rho
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.08.11 07:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wittgenstein ii
the analogy between Eve and an art museum seemed accurate, because while the backdrop of EVE is full of beautiful images, none can be interacted with and none affect the game experience in any way.
That depends on how you define the "game experience" as eve is hugely player orientated and you can make a significant difference. There are pure player run empires growing out on the outer regions of Eve with the politics shifting daily. No you can't blow up a planet but there is more planetary interaction planned in the near future.
Originally by: Wittgenstein ii
similarly, i also got bored after an hour of walking through the louvre hehe. EVE just has no sense of environment or place and thus no sense of wonder or exploration. With all the possible stellar phenomena to emulate, we wondered why none of them were represented. Autopiloting over and over through star systems whose only differences were the security level and type of asteroid belt while afk is just not an engaging experience for new players.
This I agree with, the only half interesting environments in Eve tend to be in complexes etc and when you zoom out you see they tend to be little more than fairly small clouds. Freelancer was a good example of immersive environments and there has been discussion on improving it in eve (system wide asteroid belts, gas clouds etc), the problem seems to come from implementing them.
Originally by: Wittgenstein ii
we all love PVP and were excited to get into some space battles but after joining a corp and fighting in a handful of battles, the reports from veteran players about repetitive strategies like stargate camping, POS spam, etc. seemed to dampen our enthusiasm.
Pvp in eve is hugely variable and so are the tactics. Don't think that just becuase one group of "vets" only know how to sit on gates all day instead of actively hunt their targets that that is all there is too it. tbh you can't really get the full pvp experience in just 2 weeks, you really need to be playing for a good few months and experiment to get a better sense of why it's so good.
Originally by: Wittgenstein ii
the interface was also an annoyance to us, lacking real customizability or intuitive control. we were not looking for WoW type customizing which trivializes the game but it could certainly use an overhaul.
Don't really have an answer to this one as I've never found a problem with the interface. I guess that comes down to personal taste.
Originally by: Wittgenstein ii
EVE is an enigmatic experience. we liked quite a bit of the game such as the ship fitting and skill training systems; but how they are implemented into the gameworld seems shallow. We love the open-ended approach to MMO's but in this case we think EVE's open-endedness is too deeply coupled with "lack of content". we understand that EVE is still being developed and could easily address these areas of the game.
This is one aspect that catches alot of players out. There is plenty of content in eve. The difference with other games is that content in eve = more tools to play with, be they ships or new game mechanics, whereas in other games, new content = some new "story" to play through. Eve itself has a huge backstory and and an ongoing plot (admittedly it has been neglated recently in favour of alot of the new things being developed) but it is down to the player to decide how much they wish to interact with the content. Then again there is play made content from the role players who immerse themselves in the back story to the corporations and alliances forging their own empires out in 0.0 through diplomacy and force. This won't suit players who prefer to have a more structured experience where they play out roles with their friends in a story written by the game designers. In Eve you set your own goals and create your own story and you can make it as grandious or simple as you wish.
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
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Wild Rho
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.08.11 07:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: "Wittgenstein ii"
we also admit its presumptous of us to comment this far into a game after only 2 weeks but to its credit, EVE allows you to engage in many aspects of the game quite quickly. but for what its worth, these are the experiences of 3 trial players.
Cheers for the post, mostly people who play the trial accounts come here to whine about it instead of making somthing constructive. In the end Eve isn't for everyone but the trial account is barely a glimpse of the true scope of Eve, it just takes some adjustment to get used to a truely free environment when you are used to being "told" what to do in a game.
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
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spurious signal
Caldari Brainiacs
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Posted - 2006.08.11 07:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Wittgenstein ii three friends and i just got done with the 14 day trial and thought we'd share some thoughts from a prospective player standpoint. being on vacation from our jobs and wives, we did our best to dabble in as many aspects of EVE as we could during the 14 days. hence we played quite a bit... (showers and healthy meals were sporadic and fully optional). we won't be buying accounts for some of the following reasons.
the analogy between Eve and an art museum seemed accurate, because while the backdrop of EVE is full of beautiful images, none can be interacted with and none affect the game experience in any way. similarly, i also got bored after an hour of walking through the louvre hehe. EVE just has no sense of environment or place and thus no sense of wonder or exploration. With all the possible stellar phenomena to emulate, we wondered why none of them were represented. Autopiloting over and over through star systems whose only differences were the security level and type of asteroid belt while afk is just not an engaging experience for new players.
we all love PVP and were excited to get into some space battles but after joining a corp and fighting in a handful of battles, the reports from veteran players about repetitive strategies like stargate camping, POS spam, etc. seemed to dampen our enthusiasm.
the interface was also an annoyance to us, lacking real customizability or intuitive control. we were not looking for WoW type customizing which trivializes the game but it could certainly use an overhaul.
EVE is an enigmatic experience. we liked quite a bit of the game such as the ship fitting and skill training systems; but how they are implemented into the gameworld seems shallow. We love the open-ended approach to MMO's but in this case we think EVE's open-endedness is too deeply coupled with "lack of content". we understand that EVE is still being developed and could easily address these areas of the game.
we also admit its presumptous of us to comment this far into a game after only 2 weeks but to its credit, EVE allows you to engage in many aspects of the game quite quickly. but for what its worth, these are the experiences of 3 trial players.
Ignore the flamers and retards, these forums are stuffed with them these days unfortunately.
I think your post was valuable and I hope someone from CCP reads it and takes note. The point of the 2-week trials is, supposedly, to encourage new players to try EVE and stay for longer than 2 weeks. If CCP are failing at that then they need to have a think about why.
I've been playing EVE for 2 years now and I entirely agree with you on all counts. The interface is dire, clearly the designers have never heard of Jakob Nielson The environment is very, very sterile and CCP should definitely think about how to make it more interesting. As for the PvP it has got worse and worse over the 2 years I've been playing. You can still get good fights and some fun but piracy is the only way to really achieve that - normal corp and alliance PvP sucks now
There are some very good things about EVE still and I can assure you that it improves with more playing - as many have said, 2 weeks isn't really long enough. But if CCP failed to hold your interest in 2 weeks then they don't deserve to get your money tbh.
Thanks for the post.
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Rick Dentill
Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.11 08:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Montague Zooma Some players just can't stand to see any criticism of their game. Well, I've been playing for over a year and I agree with Wittgenstein that the Eve environment is rather limited. Sometimes it feels like we're playing a massively multiplayer version of Hunt the Wumpus.
I have to disagree with you there, yes some people do take offence at people saying EVE isn't here, but the replies here have been very fair and constructive. I don't think there is anything wrong with suggesting that you need to play EVE for longer than the trial to really see the depth of the game. Just like reading a book doesn't make you an expert.
I think also that long term player apathy is centred more around simply that repeatedly doing anything will inevitably lead to habituation. Every few months I set a long skill, take a break, do something else, and find I get drawn back to EVE simply because of its dynamism. Yes there are lots of things that would make EVE even better, but there is plenty of stuff here already that can engage you. One of the greatest things about EVE is within a few constraints, we are largely limited by our imaginations, ambition and drive. EVE is very immersive and we are given a large canvas with which to paint on, for some people that may not be their thing, and that is fine, but I would suggest that is their own failing and not the gameÆs. _______
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
Dust Angel
True Core
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Posted - 2006.08.11 08:19:00 -
[20]
Eve is what you make of it. Dotn want to camp gates!? dont do it then. I run a successful corp that primarily raids. _____________________________________ Stressed out with empire politics?
Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.11 08:58:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Avon on 11/08/2006 08:59:48 OP: Eve just doesn't seem like your sort of game. It sounds like you want a game that feeds you content, and there is nothing wrong with that (no matter what other people here may say).
Eve is a game which really just gives you the building blocks, and you have to 'live' your 'role', using the content that is available to enrich that. The content itself is pretty bland because it is not driven, it is just an available resource. It is a whole different game style, and one that many gamers just don't "get". It is more akin to playing an RPG where the GM has set no quest. You can do what you want, when you want, within the bounds of the "game world" and rules.
In a content driven game you could take the role of a smuggler. The game would issue you with quests that advance your status within the smuggler class, and those quests would be suited to your chracter. In Eve you can be a smuggler too. Different items on the market have varying legality in different regions. You could pick one and try to smuggle it around to make a profit. The approach is very different in each game.
In Eve there are no set roles. Your character class is whatever you imagine it to be. You could be a psychopathic murderer with a love of mining. You are not class limited, you can train to do anything. The downside is that you have to set your own goals - the game will not do it for you. In more traditional games, you pick from a set of classes, and then you play that type of character through the game. The game tailors itself around your chosen class, and so when you 'win' you can replay as a different class for a new experience, until you have 'won' the game with every class.
Eve .. you can't win.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Darius Falc
Gallente Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.08.11 08:59:00 -
[22]
There is alot to agree with in Wittgenstein's post. I really do enjoy Eve...I play pirate and love the rush of hunting. I think it's one of the funnest things I've done in an MMORPG but there are alot of things that I could see improved.
I agree with the environment comments why can't we have:
Pulsars, black holes, dense nebulae, etc. all which have a different effect on navigation.
Couldn't we make landing at space stations more interactive. I'd really like to fly into a star base and have my own hanger space. I'd love to have more interactive starbases.
I'd love to be able to get out of my ship and walk around in a star base.
Planets and atmospheric landings. Some out of ship adventure possibilities.
Anyway, at the end of the day there is probably a huge wish list. The guys at CCP have done an outstanding job with Eve and I suspect that the things above aren't implemented due to the current focus of the game, the server architecture and insuring a seemless game experience, but I'd love to see a little more in the way of phenomema in star systems.
DF. ***********************************************
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Rashmika Clavain
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Posted - 2006.08.11 09:24:00 -
[23]
I am inclined to agree with regards to the OP's comments on the environment... but then seeing as though I cannot offer any viable solution I refrain from raising it as an issue
I am not aware of any games that differ... it was the same in Elite, Freelancer, SWG[JTL] etc.
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Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.11 09:27:00 -
[24]
O.K eve is not for the OP enjoy the rest of your life dude. I just wish people would stop calling eve a game. Its not a game its an alternative reality the "game" experience you create. I mean hell if you wanted to you never need to undock, you could chat all day if you wanted spinning the station around. Where will this rabbit hole take us? Well who knows but we get to shape it /me wets pants. Are you man /woman enough to shape your destiny in an alternative reality? You need to stick with eve to get the most out of it. When i first started playing eve a long time ago there wasn't half the stuff there is now and even then i was like wow the game i've been looking for all my life. Then i found out it was really an alternative reality. This is what i wanted not a crappy game . So lets start calling it by its propper tital a mmoar "massivley, multiplayer, online, alternative, reality"
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spurious signal
Caldari Brainiacs
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Posted - 2006.08.11 10:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Capt Harlock O.K eve is not for the OP enjoy the rest of your life dude. I just wish people would stop calling eve a game. Its not a game its an alternative reality the "game" experience you create. I mean hell if you wanted to you never need to undock, you could chat all day if you wanted spinning the station around. Where will this rabbit hole take us? Well who knows but we get to shape it /me wets pants. Are you man /woman enough to shape your destiny in an alternative reality? You need to stick with eve to get the most out of it. When i first started playing eve a long time ago there wasn't half the stuff there is now and even then i was like wow the game i've been looking for all my life. Then i found out it was really an alternative reality. This is what i wanted not a crappy game . So lets start calling it by its propper tital a mmoar "massivley, multiplayer, online, alternative, reality"
Dude... you need to get out more
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F4ze
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2006.08.11 10:29:00 -
[26]
I feel that CCP's focus is just not so much on immersion and environment. This game requires imagination almost in a sense that text RPG's do.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.11 10:39:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 11/08/2006 10:39:38 In EVE we get the tools and a playground to entertain ourselves and eachother, but not pre-built entertainment on a silver platter that we can just consume. Think you need some creativity and imagination to find your own way in this game to enjoy it. If we were childs I'd say EVE is a bit like playing lego or similar things. If you have no idea, what to build, it's just no fun, but if you have an idea, what you want to try out / what to build, then it's a lot of fun, because you have a lot of freedom.
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Boonaki
Caldari Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.08.11 10:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Darius Falc There is alot to agree with in Wittgenstein's post. I really do enjoy Eve...I play pirate and love the rush of hunting. I think it's one of the funnest things I've done in an MMORPG but there are alot of things that I could see improved.
I agree with the environment comments why can't we have:
Pulsars, black holes, dense nebulae, etc. all which have a different effect on navigation.
Couldn't we make landing at space stations more interactive. I'd really like to fly into a star base and have my own hanger space. I'd love to have more interactive starbases.
I'd love to be able to get out of my ship and walk around in a star base.
Planets and atmospheric landings. Some out of ship adventure possibilities.
Anyway, at the end of the day there is probably a huge wish list. The guys at CCP have done an outstanding job with Eve and I suspect that the things above aren't implemented due to the current focus of the game, the server architecture and insuring a seemless game experience, but I'd love to see a little more in the way of phenomema in star systems.
DF.
That's what Star Trek Online is going to be like, although if your ship gets blown up you just get towed back to a station and it's repaired. No loss, no risk.
Fear the Ibis of doom! |
Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.11 11:01:00 -
[29]
Quote: Dude... you need to get out more
yep lol
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Infinity II
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Posted - 2006.08.11 11:04:00 -
[30]
I think he means lack of content as in lack of depth. Which is true.
How much do you know about Sansha, Gurista, Serpenti other then stats and how to shoot them. Do they ever 'do' anything other then just get shot?
Everything is like that. The EvE world is dead. Theres no EvE culture or feeling in the game.
Every backdrop is completely uninteractable. If you want to explore theres actually nowhere to go and nothing to find. You cant even decide to get in your ship and go 100,000,000 km somewhere because you can only go to a few places in warp.
How about popping a few scan probes, what can you find, nothing, they only work 2 dimensionally and they cant even find an object like a drone or a cargo can so forget a career in space salvage.
In fact the entire game is designed for a single purpose and thats for groups of people to shoot each other repeatedly and not much else.
So while its a good game, its definitely not a game with depth, or content (unless your interested in shooting people only) or character.
It is as someone said rather sterile.
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