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Jinx Barker
Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.12 09:17:00 -
[1]
Hi all,
Well, I want to make a confession; my POS is really yanking my chain. I am a very anal-retentive individual, ask anyone who knows me, and I arranged all my modules and hung them/anchored them in nice little rows and what not. However, it is still p***ing me off. I hate the fact that she looks like an x-mas tree on the 1st of January.
So, I would like to make an indecent proposal:
Leave all the POS modules as they currently are. But, make them hookup directly tot the tower, or give us an ability to anchor them directly/attach directly to the tower. Find a better way û read less lag inducing û to manage POS structures. Currently any POS you look at resembles something out of a coronerÆs office.
It would be lovely if all structures and devices, bells, and whistles, were attached directly to a POS tower thus making a single structure. Better yet, it would be nice if POS were redesigned where you can actually dock it with û like with a station, and have a transparent bubble û and I do not mean the shield û but a æglassÆ bubble around it, within the shield circumference, so when you dock you can still see outside and observe the space in wait for hostiles, but at the same time able to change ships and so forth.
In other words, consolidate the lag causing crazy structures strewn all over the place into one coherent modular structure that can be expanded as need arises. Make them little bit more like outposts, which is what they essentially are, but with the same functionality as a POS.
I know there are many people out there who would agree with me and who have voiced similar desires. So, I would like to hear from them again. I believe that the proposed modifications will not detrimentally affect the POS; it will only make them less laggy and more utilitarian and convenient to use.
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sb404
Caldari 3240 Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.12 14:01:00 -
[2]
I would like to add to this, that if given the chance to "dock" in our POSes, it would also be nice to have an update to the UI. Getting access to "manning" the defences would make it very enjoyable and more efficient.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.12 15:15:00 -
[3]
If by "more efficient" you mean "pop dreads like popcorn", yea...
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sb404
Caldari 3240 Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.12 15:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Maya Rkell If by "more efficient" you mean "pop dreads like popcorn", yea...
Yea! Maya aggrees with m... oh... are you being sarcastic?
Nonetheless, yes, popping dreads like popcorn falls into the "more efficient" category, thanks for adding an example.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.12 16:00:00 -
[5]
I havent even heard about a single case of a dread harmed by a POS. But there is a hellishly long thread on ships forum, where (afair) some Shinras whine about POSes being so defenseless, boring and non-chellenging when attacked. So, stronger POS defences wuldnt harm anybody :)
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Evelgrivion
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Posted - 2006.08.12 16:21:00 -
[6]
This is something that has irritated me personally. I never was a fan of the "big bunch of stuff floating in space" aesthetic. The POS system needs to be revised dramatically in my personal opinion. Firstly I'd like to see people able to turn a player owned station, eventually, into a major outpost, with a central control tower that allows them to construct it to their own vision in a modular system with distinct interconnects. In an image representation, I give you this, rather crude mockup.
All modules conform to a dimensional standard. If the module is otherwise too small, it is connected via corridors. Modules have different junctions, such as the control tower, which would have four connection points (+), the Factories which, since they need to let ships out the other end, would have T corridors. (forgive the (+) branch module being labeled T, I think you get the idea). If one also wanted to, you could conceivably add modules to the top and bottom of these, but that would interfere with attacks on control towers, so it probably shouldnt be allowed.
Weapons systems, unless super powerful, would remain as they are. A module system though would allow you to easily dock your ships, such as the super module that has 2x3 connections - conceivably you could make even larger hangars that had even larger capacities for ships. Ultimately you could conceivably add almost every function an outpost offers, they would remain more vulnerable with their external, modular design than a solid outpost style POS, which would allow them to keep their place in the game.
These are all my opinions on design and what I and I alone would like to see.
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sb404
Caldari 3240 Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.12 17:10:00 -
[7]
Edited by: sb404 on 12/08/2006 17:10:57
Originally by: Evelgrivion This is something that has irritated me personally. I never was a fan of the "big bunch of stuff floating in space" aesthetic. The POS system needs to be revised dramatically in my personal opinion. Firstly I'd like to see people able to turn a player owned station, eventually, into a major outpost, with a central control tower that allows them to construct it to their own vision in a modular system with distinct interconnects. In an image representation, I give you this, rather crude mockup.
Yes, this is how I pictured POSes initially, and, in my opinion, although it doesn't rank high on priority lists I'm sure, they need to re-think the way POS modules are deployed. A grid like HUD would be a nice start. I know all the neatfreaks out there are like me and like things to be as symetrical as possible, and a grid would be something I'd sacrifice a goat to.
Now, I'm not sure about this, but adding tunnels and vents and access pipes will add alot of "loading" lag when you arrive at your POS, so unfortunetly, I think it isn't very feasible at this time, unless someone wants to go over each modules and redesign them with those "connections" already in place, which would in turn, limit our originality when deploying POSes. Quite the dilema.
Did I mention a grid to align the modules would be nice?
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Jinx Barker
Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.12 17:14:00 -
[8]
Hell, I would be happy with a metal ball in space, so long as it is not so irritatingly cumbersome as it is now.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.12 17:22:00 -
[9]
"Walls" from complexes, some fatter "module melding blocks", connecting everything, wuld look nice. But that wuld need major graphical redesigne of POS graphics and interface. I'm not sure if "looking nice" is worth it. Maybe some new thing, something more then POS but less then outpost, like 3-10 billion worth dockable thingie with new or merged functions.
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Reachok
Amarr Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2006.08.12 17:34:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Reachok on 12/08/2006 17:35:32 I'm a big fan of the single tower idea. Just make the towers appear bigger, like CCP did with stations. Various modules replace the current ship, hanger, construction lab and weapon arrays. In space you'd only see the lone tower sitting there. This reduces lag by eliminating butt loads of anchored items floating about. And, gives a cloaked enemy something to wonder about, "Hmmm, what do they have on that rig?" And, the available slots on the tower would be limited by the size, power and cpu of the tower as it currently does.
With a ship module loaded, it seems it wouldn't be hard to show your ship from the hanger view. And give you a screen showing the various services currently available at that POS. One other addition, a tactical overlay like screen showing the surrounding space, one that would allow a properly trained corp member (Starbase Tactical Officer ) to concentrate fire - from the POS!
Reduces lag, makes the POS more useful and increases the tactical aspect of a POS.
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Evelgrivion
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Posted - 2006.08.12 17:46:00 -
[11]
That is another option as a middle ground between the current POS system and major NPC and player owned outposts. However, not knowing what it has inside or defending itself is an unfair proposition; guns should be as they are now, and not built in - unless we want to start building in Titan class super weapons onto stations
Either you could have a core control tower that you add other, potentially bigger modules to (all referenced on a large grid to the XYZ coordinates of the tower to make load balancing easier), or one giant control tower that you add smaller, but still targetable, modules to the outside of, with more guns to serve as a smaller version of an outpost. Or you could conceivably implement both, CCP ;)
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Reachok
Amarr Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2006.08.12 17:59:00 -
[12]
I see your point as there are weapons that continue to fire in reinforced mode. And after the shield is down. If the modules were added similarly to the NPC outposts we kill in missions, whereby you target a weapon module separate from the tower proper, that would work too. Or, a giant ball with dome like targetable weapon structures on it's surface for the various weapon systems.
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.12 22:01:00 -
[13]
Here are some (hopefully easy) changes that would improve POS aesthetics:
1) Get rid of the word 'anchored' or 'online' next to a module. Instead use shading or color of the module's geometric symbol.
2) Allow any POS module to be accessed within 2500m of the control tower, so that precise positioning is no longer important.
3) All modules must be placed adjacent to the tower or another module. The 'anchor here' thingy won't let you move the arrows anywhere else.
4) Render a generic (non race-specific) conduit connecting the module to adjacent modules/tower.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.12 22:04:00 -
[14]
1 is a problem for the colourblind...make it an option.
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.12 22:26:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dutarro on 12/08/2006 22:27:25
Originally by: Maya Rkell 1 is a problem for the colourblind...make it an option.
I had in mind the kind of shading used in the icon for a star (as compared to the icon for a planet). The interior of the geometric symbol would be shaded if online, unshaded if offline, a difference which is visible to the colorblind. Also it might be helpful if the module is decorated with a few lights that turn off when it is offline. To remove any ambiguity, an explicit statement of the module status could be placed in its mouseover text.
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Jinx Barker
Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.13 17:55:00 -
[16]
Fact remains that it would be nice if they were changed. As far as the guns are concerned, perhaps positioning them in a fairly conspicuous location, where they can be visible and targetable will solve the problem.
At this time POS as a whole really causes too much lag and appears very disorganised.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:19:00 -
[17]
POS with nice module-connectors will cause some more lag. Partially its probably the matter of shield effect.
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Lygos
ISS Navy Task Force
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Posted - 2006.08.14 01:33:00 -
[18]
I think CCP got it right making deployable assets small and separate, however, they messed up by putting them all in one grid.
CCP needs to find a way to make blobbing both expensive for offensive uses and tactically unwise in terms of territory defense before we can have permanent structures that make sense in terms of gameplay. Otherwise they will need to be developed around the idea of blobbing.
To start with, you could deploy a couple power generators by themselves at a moon. Then you could start deploying miners or small defenses arround other moons with maximum numbers of objects per grid.
Some moons or even safes within so many km of moons in different grids could have additional objects anchored. Perhaps drone managed materials distribution. CCP has trader npcs in ever single system so far so a few more can't hurt. They might restrict this to outpost or station owners of course. These drones automatically collect or distribute materiel between simpler, weaker installations if they are scheduled correctly. Campers can predate upon these easily.
If logistics demands it, you could have one central deathstar type pos per system or planet, perhaps controlling a planet and perhaps a sheild or energy emitting array once you control that planet or that second installation. Once you have this, none of the smaller structures can be so easily destroyed, or perhaps are invulnerable until the governing structure is destroyed. Such a deathstar would be simplified and not have quite so many objects within it so it can be blobbed if necessary. Guns would all be synchronized to use fewer server cycles. Or POS could use fewer turrets and allow you to add capacitors for adding damage to a single turret, or stabilizers to increase RoF. The latter could use equivalent PG/CPU as current turrets with fewer server objects. They'd have equivalent output with more focused fire. Plus they'd be harder to reconnoiter.
Governing structure mechanics can also be tweaked to where the structures are very expensive in terms of moon resources required. You can increase fueling requirement for every moon or amplified structure in its roster. They can also be restricted to where they can only be upgraded if you have some form of next-level-lower level governing structure in that system and neighboring systems. With this system, the total efficiency of a group of player's structures can always be modulated with risk.
Then you can have constellation governing structures to harden things further. You can even consider releasing regionwide asset amplification monitors. At each level, the amount of weak feeder structures that group requires for self-sufficiency and the amount of systems requiring sovereignty must expand. All player plutocracies then become expansionist in their desire for greater security, yet have to scatter their forces to prevent raiders from snagging or destroying the necessary yet replaceable structures at the fringes of their space.
So it can be quite profitable to operate a tiny operation at low startup capital and almost no defenses. But you have to sacrifice a percent of output for a little more protection. You have to put saved resources into use to expand the operation to neighboring planets and systems in order to contribute another percent of output to implementing another tier of governance installations, which tragically never have quite enough ability to supplement all of your assets without sinking your bottom line.
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.14 02:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon POS with nice module-connectors will cause some more lag...
Maybe not, the connector can be a very simply shaped object, so there are few polygons to render, and since the connector does not exist as a separate object there would be no server resources used for it.
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Evelgrivion
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Posted - 2006.08.16 03:41:00 -
[20]
Visual addendum to the module concept in very simplistic, untextured 3D
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Aeaus
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.16 05:03:00 -
[21]
That is really what POSs should be like. As they stand they're rather disorganized. I try to make all of mine look neat. Yes, I reanchor structures if they're one unit off, =[
While we're at it, could we make a moon harvester connect to the pos and actually align toward the moon ^^
My Guides |
Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.16 08:09:00 -
[22]
Wee that pic looks great :)
POS shuld not be limited to be flat like a city - its in space and all ;) Byt that flat one looks great :) And needs a way to manage everyhing (like transporting stuff from silos to hangar) from one place, as navigating from module to module in an industrial wuld become hell.
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K Shara
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.16 09:15:00 -
[23]
that is a very nice concept
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Jinx Barker
Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2006.08.16 09:25:00 -
[24]
Evelgrivion, holy crap man - this is awesome model!!!
However, could you please change the image to the link, I dont want forum gods to get upset and start throwing lightining around. Also, if forum god sees this, please dont get angry, I will sacrafice a goat to you and just change the image tot he link?
Still, I cant get over how good that POS looks. Now, could you add some guns/missile battereis/whatever battereis where they are visible and conspicuous, available for targeting?
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Dev7
Caldari Bravehearts
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Posted - 2006.08.16 09:38:00 -
[25]
Question.. when all is in one piece like in that pic.. and corp has like 200 members who all floating around that POS structure then u actually cant see POS anymore.. u see 200 members covering POS.. that could be very annoying, and like all knows..only 1 member can use ship hangar at same time so all other must be little bit more far..but if half of this 200 members are afk then u cant use ship hangar neither... Think about it..
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Spoon Thumb
Crystaline Green
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Posted - 2006.08.16 11:25:00 -
[26]
2 possible solutions:
*How about rather than having a separate structure (deadspace wall) connecting each part to the tower, instead, when something is onlined, have a wall automatically created linking back to the tower. So not an actual tangible thing on it's own, but just nice for graphics
*(As I think people have been suggesting) Redesign the POS tower model to have some linkways coming off of it. Then attach the modules to the ends of these
*** Spoon Thumb - I can scoop ice cream with my thumbs!
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Ellaine TashMurkon
Em Pack HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.08.16 11:41:00 -
[27]
There are mission and complex structures with houndreds of walls, bunkers and stuff, and they cause less lag then a POS with 10 modules. Something is graphics-heavy here (I bet its shield).
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.16 12:22:00 -
[28]
I love the topic..."My POS looks like a dead horse".
Wonderful.
Because now, like everybody else, you have brought it to the forums to flog it.
--- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Evelgrivion
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Posted - 2006.08.16 15:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dev7 Question.. when all is in one piece like in that pic.. and corp has like 200 members who all floating around that POS structure then u actually cant see POS anymore.. u see 200 members covering POS.. that could be very annoying, and like all knows..only 1 member can use ship hangar at same time so all other must be little bit more far..but if half of this 200 members are afk then u cant use ship hangar neither... Think about it..
No offense, but wheres the question
I know what youre getting at in regards to this; however, this wouldnt follow the current POS model where one person hovers outside a fitting hangar and makes in inaccessable to anyone else; the hangar would be able to hold a certain volume of vessels at any time (expandable with additional modules). This way, you'd have to work to keep your ships docked, but you would be able to do it, change fittings, access your own station's services, etc.
Put in a new high-tech refining array and you can have a base 40% refining efficiency instead of a typical 30% base. Put in a Tech II designed module and voila, instant 50% refining base (at a very high cost).
Coming with Kali is a lot of new space, and if we have to build the infrastructure, POSs need to go beyond the current model.
So no worries, if 200 people are floating AFK around the station, no problem. If 200 people are docked, someone did a very poor job ensuring theres enough room for everyone. However, the problem youre highlighting will be far less likely to occur.
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Yello1
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Posted - 2006.08.16 19:12:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Yello1 on 16/08/2006 19:14:15 I sure would love to see a pic of what the original poster is talking about.
Quote:
Yes, Im THAT Yello1
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