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Dalto Bane
V I R I I Ineluctable.
146
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Posted - 2014.10.11 05:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I created this thread so that the original thread that it started in can get back to its actual topic (Stealth Bomber Cloaky Nerf) and we can have a "healthy" deba..discussion about multiboxing, specifically programs designed to facilitated multiboxing.
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Lady Thanatos wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play. By continuing to allow ISBoxers to do what they do, you're risking driving loyal players away from the game, in favor of a guy with 20 accounts who's just going to end up quitting when the next hot-ticket MMO goes live. Don't think so highly of yourself. If you are complaining about ISBoxers you are not a "quality" player. I may not be particularly good at this game, but I fancy myself a "quality player". I care about the community, I interact with other players as they deserve to be interacted with, and I am respectful but honest with the devs. I've been with EVE in one form or another from the beginning, and I will hopefully be there when it's time for EVE to say good-bye to us all. I am neither doomsayer nor white knight. I am a member of this community. There are plenty of players, ISBoxer or not, that are not and have no interest with being involved in the social aspect of the game. They are just like the RMT crowd.... they don't care about the game, or any of us. ISBoxers are solely responsible for this nerf, and a playstyle that used to be fun is going to suffer because of them.
I feel like you and I could be the same person, except for the fact that we are polar opposites in regards to our views on ISBoxer. I am actually going to try and refrain from using the name ISBoxer from this point forward as if it is the sole program that has the capabilities that it has.
You are mistaken in you view on multiboxers having no interest in the involvement of social aspects of this game, or that we should be associated with the "RMT Crowd". You also seemed to think WE don't care about the game or any of "us". Well, I do care about this community. I try not to use fallacies to categorize others in Eve Online.
Dalto Bane for CSM10- Getting an early start. -á-My posts are my platform
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6400
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Posted - 2014.10.11 05:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't use ISBoxer but at the same time I don't care if anyone else does use it.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Grimpak
Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance.
2419
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Posted - 2014.10.11 05:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I don't use ISBoxer but at the same time I don't care if anyone else does use it. Mr Epeen p much my stance. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
801
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Posted - 2014.10.11 05:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
ISBoxer is about risk management.
I have 4 accounts and I do so for the same reason. While I don't ISBox on principal I do understand why it's here. I'd like to see EVE without ISBox but I'm no fool. The game favors the under handed too much and as long as that's the case people will want to keep mandatory mechanics in a tight circle and there is no tighter a circle than just me. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
1083
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Posted - 2014.10.11 06:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Edited note: misread the op's position, so i'm just going to address this to all the stupid isboxer threads:
As of right now ISBoxer is perfectly legal. CCP has said its legal. If you think thats wrong file a damn petition. Threads on the matter are pointless.
I repeat
CCP SAYS ITS LEGAL
So it doesn;t matter what you or anyone else says. God (CCP) has spoken.
/thread OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
Dalto Bane
V I R I I Ineluctable.
146
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Posted - 2014.10.11 06:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ocih wrote:ISBoxer is about risk management.
I have 4 accounts and I do so for the same reason. While I don't ISBox on principal I do understand why it's here. I'd like to see EVE without ISBox but I'm no fool. The game favors the under handed too much and as long as that's the case people will want to keep mandatory mechanics in a tight circle and there is no tighter a circle than just me.
So, I wanted to quote you because I think you have a healthy grasp on what ISBoxer is, you choose not to use it, but you multibox.
Here are my issues with individuals who, every so often, start this "BAN ISBOXER" triad:
1) They label all multiboxing programs with "ISBoxer" seemingly oblivious that ISBoxer is a brand, and there are many brands that do the same, or similar.
2) They believe that banning these programs will fix everything, from macro mining to SB fleets.
3) They don't understand the concept, that these programs alone do the same thing a highend PC with GFX utilities such as Eyefinity, for example, and multiple cursor/board input can do.
There is plenty more but I would like to see additional post on the topic before addressing this farther. Thanks to all who have shared their input so far!
Dalto Bane for CSM10- Getting an early start. -á-My posts are my platform
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Presidente Gallente
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
123
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Posted - 2014.10.11 06:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Why should CCP rate ISBoxer as illegal when it allows to deal with 18+ accounts to gank people. Without ISBoxer 18+ accounts are unsubbed and those alive people don't have to replace their ganked stuff. |
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
24292
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Posted - 2014.10.11 06:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
one man with 20 SBs is worth 20 men each with 1 SB in terms of combat capability. Either way, if 20 SBs drop bombs on you, you're dead. doesn't matter how many people actually control all those ships. Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
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Grimpak
Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance.
2420
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Posted - 2014.10.11 06:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:Ocih wrote:ISBoxer is about risk management.
I have 4 accounts and I do so for the same reason. While I don't ISBox on principal I do understand why it's here. I'd like to see EVE without ISBox but I'm no fool. The game favors the under handed too much and as long as that's the case people will want to keep mandatory mechanics in a tight circle and there is no tighter a circle than just me. So, I wanted to quote you because I think you have a healthy grasp on what ISBoxer is, you choose not to use it, but you multibox. Here are my issues with individuals who, every so often, start this "BAN ISBOXER" triad: 1) They label all multiboxing programs with "ISBoxer" seemingly oblivious that ISBoxer is a brand, and there are many brands that do the same, or similar. 2) They believe that banning these programs will fix everything, from macro mining to SB fleets. 3) They don't understand the concept, that these programs alone do the same thing a highend PC with GFX utilities such as Eyefinity, for example, and multiple cursor/board input can do. There is plenty more but I would like to see additional post on the topic before addressing this farther. Thanks to all who have shared their input so far!
the main (non)issue here is that some (quite vocal) people think that ISBoxer (and derivates) (and their derivates) is a macro botting app that automates stuff, despite proof on contrary.
I said non-issue because duplication of keystrokes is not automation of keystrokes.
that or they were ganked on rancer by an isboxer gankfleet or a isboxer mining fleet cleared up the belt they were in, and they were filled with RAEG that wasn't distilled into tears yet. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Dalto Bane
V I R I I Ineluctable.
146
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Posted - 2014.10.11 06:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:
the main (non)issue here is that some (quite vocal) people think that ISBoxer (and derivates) (and their derivates) is a macro botting app that automates stuff, despite proof on contrary.
I said non-issue because duplication of keystrokes is not automation of keystrokes.
that or they were ganked on rancer by an isboxer gankfleet or a isboxer mining fleet cleared up the belt they were in, and they were filled with RAEG that wasn't distilled into tears yet.
Yes, I complete agree, and you are absolutely right. ISBoxer alone is not a macro app. ISBoxer along with a few third party applications which will go unnamed here is the only way that ISBoxer could automate functions. I will follow up with an optional tl;dr backstory so some of the multiboxing opponents know from where my reasoning has its roots.
Dalto Bane for CSM10- Getting an early start. -á-My posts are my platform
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Presidente Gallente
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
124
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Posted - 2014.10.11 07:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Liafcipe9000 wrote:one man with 20 SBs is worth 20 men each with 1 SB in terms of combat capability. Either way, if 20 SBs drop bombs on you, you're dead. doesn't matter how many people actually control all those ships.
You miss one point: just one man has to be online only while 20 men must be online for the same combat capability.
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Khema Fera
Brave Pros Incorparated
1
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Posted - 2014.10.11 07:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Before anyone pulls the "manual pilot failure" card about how boxers don't have that and non-boxers do, if a multiboxer makes single piloting error, it is replicated to every single one of his ships. So if he makes a single mistake, he's putting much more at risk. Also, what does it matter to you if it's 20 bombers flown by 20 people or 20 bombers flown by 1 person? As liaf said, it's still 20 bombs. They also pay for all the accounts, pay for all the ships. Alone. (in most cases) They need to set it all up and they can encounter much more lag than a non-boxer. Multiboxing has drawbacks. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10799
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Posted - 2014.10.11 07:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
*knockknock*
Excuse me, but what is the point here exactly?
You need to understand a few very important things here.... please.
1. This topic is a dead horse. 1a. A dead horse remains dead, no matter how much you beat it. It doesn't work that way anyway.
2. There are tons of threads about this already, which share the end this one will have.
3. CCP's ruling is clear. Why do you believe this here will change anything, compared to the multitude of other threads like this one?
4. What would you say does it tell about people when they create threads like these?
Thank you for taking your time and answering these actually relevant questions. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Khema Fera
Brave Pros Incorparated
1
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Posted - 2014.10.11 07:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:*knockknock*
Excuse me, but what is the point here exactly?
You need to understand a few very important things here.... please.
1. This topic is a dead horse. 1a. A dead horse remains dead, no matter how much you beat it. It doesn't work that way anyway.
2. There are tons of threads about this already, which share the end this one will have.
3. CCP's ruling is clear. Why do you believe this here will change anything, compared to the multitude of other threads like this one?
4. What would you say does it tell about people when they create threads like these?
Thank you for taking your time and answering these actually relevant questions. Hehe. You shouldn't pull a J'Poll :p This thread is actually semi-unique.. I haven't seen a thread supporting multiboxers for a while. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2822
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Posted - 2014.10.11 07:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
I paid ISBoxer sub for a year, used it for a day. I like my freedom of spending money as I see fit. Invalid signature format |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10799
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Posted - 2014.10.11 07:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wasn't my intention ... and I'm not that aggressive! :p I am still waiting for the one person that actually answers them. I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
169
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Posted - 2014.10.11 09:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:*knockknock*
Excuse me, but what is the point here exactly?
You need to understand a few very important things here.... please.
1. This topic is a dead horse. 1a. A dead horse remains dead, no matter how much you beat it. It doesn't work that way anyway.
2. There are tons of threads about this already, which share the end this one will have.
3. CCP's ruling is clear. Why do you believe this here will change anything, compared to the multitude of other threads like this one?
4. What would you say does it tell about people when they create threads like these?
Thank you for taking your time and answering these actually relevant questions. GÇöGÇöGÇö Wasn't my intention ... and I'm not that aggressive! :p I am still waiting for the one person that actually answers them.
1) Isn't a question surely? If I must give it a go I'll say: "West Germany 4-2 after extra time".
2) Isn't a question either. Oh we'll, I'll try "White Nile".
3) Okay, this is a question. I'd say the OP was pretty clear the purpose was to get his stealth bomber thread back on track, and to open a discussion on keystroke duplication software. Furthermore, it looks like you completely got the OP's intentions arse about tit - he's not just whinging about them - he's pointing out that there's more than just isboxer out there, and that people that use such software are people too.
4) Hmm, word salad followed by a mark of interrogation. Again I'm just going to guess "the development of agriculture" and hope for the best. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1251
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Posted - 2014.10.11 09:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP will never ban ISBoxer because people who use it have many alts, and that means more money in CCPs pocket, especially with the number of active players has been dwindling in the past year or so. ISBoxer helps makes the subscription numbers look better. |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2521
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Posted - 2014.10.11 09:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I don't use ISBoxer but at the same time I don't care if anyone else does use it. Mr Epeen
Spot on.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10803
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Posted - 2014.10.11 09:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dear Cristl ...
... thanks for reminding me not to post before Coffee ... ... and 4. should be even within your reach to grasp.
I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
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Dave Stark
7056
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Posted - 2014.10.11 10:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Isboxer is just another thing for people to whine about it.
there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, hence why it hasn't been banned.
fun fact; even if those 20 pilots were piloted by 20 guys not 1 guy, you'd have still got your **** pushed in. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2014.10.11 10:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
EvE online a massive alt player online game where you are told you are playing with thousands of other player when in reality you are just playing with the same couple of hundred guys and their thousands of alts.
Not sure if it is beneficial to a game when out of 30k logged in accounts less than 10k actually represent individual humans.
When a noob these days looks for a corp he can-¦t judge activity by numbers of accounts in corp, he can-¦t even judge activity by numbers of accounts logged in. There are literally hundreds of corps out there with 3-50 members that are only played by 1 to 10 actual humans with each having numerous alts.
Only just recently I saw something very stupid in local, a fleet of SteveX1 through SteveX18 (name does not exist , just an example) getting ready for a massive solo mining op...... If thats not sad what is?
It-¦s like Bobby and his 10 imaginary friends fantasizing about having a great social life. |
Dave Stark
7056
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Posted - 2014.10.11 10:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:EvE online a massive alt player online game where you are told you are playing with thousands of other player when in reality you are just playing with the same couple of hundred guys and their thousands of alts.
Not sure if it is beneficial to a game when out of 30k logged in accounts less than 10k actually represent individual humans.
When a noob these days looks for a corp he can-¦t judge activity by numbers of accounts in corp, he can-¦t even judge activity by numbers of accounts logged in. There are literally hundreds of corps out there with 3-50 members that are only played by 1 to 10 actual humans with each having numerous alts.
Only just recently I saw something very stupid in local, a fleet of SteveX1 through SteveX18 (name does not exist , just an example) getting ready for a massive solo mining op...... If thats not sad what is?
It-¦s like Bobby and his 10 imaginary friends fantasizing about having a great social life.
yeah must be sad being able to actually have orca boosts when you need them, not on some one else's timetable. actually having enough people to do *something* etc...
not to mention, you're simply assuming they're all owned by 1 person. when a friend of mine started his trial account he named his characters using the same naming convention as me. |
Optimo Sebiestor
Kabizashi Easily Excited
268
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Posted - 2014.10.11 10:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nothing beats killing an ISboxer :) |
Dalto Bane
V I R I I Ineluctable.
146
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Posted - 2014.10.11 11:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Empty Post Dalto Bane for CSM10- Getting an early start. -á-My posts are my platform
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Dalto Bane
V I R I I Ineluctable.
146
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Posted - 2014.10.11 11:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Khema Fera wrote:Solecist Project wrote:*knockknock*
Excuse me, but what is the point here exactly?
You need to understand a few very important things here.... please.
1. This topic is a dead horse. 1a. A dead horse remains dead, no matter how much you beat it. It doesn't work that way anyway.
2. There are tons of threads about this already, which share the end this one will have.
3. CCP's ruling is clear. Why do you believe this here will change anything, compared to the multitude of other threads like this one?
4. What would you say does it tell about people when they create threads like these?
Thank you for taking your time and answering these actually relevant questions. Hehe. You shouldn't pull a J'Poll :p This thread is actually semi-unique.. I haven't seen a thread supporting multiboxers for a while.
Thank you Khema, and if at least some are able to see that I am trying to give a different perspective on this "dead horse" then it is serving its purpose.
I find it unfortunate that Soles can't reply to one thread without giving a disparaging remark, but, then again, it does not surprise me in the least. Dalto Bane for CSM10- Getting an early start. -á-My posts are my platform
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Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
239
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Posted - 2014.10.11 11:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
ISBoxer fleets would never make me leave the game. I see it as no different than dealing with a fleet of 100 players. If you can't win a fight, then you try to avoid it. Avoiding fights can be fun in itself. And if it helps CCP get more money to make the game better then what is the problem?
Some carebears like to cry about it though I guess. |
Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10804
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Posted - 2014.10.11 11:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dalto Bane wrote:Thank you Khema, and if at least some are able to see that I am trying to give a different perspective on this "dead horse" then it is serving its purpose.
I find it unfortunate that Soles can't reply to one thread without giving a disparaging remark, but, then again, it does not surprise me in the least. It doesn't surprise me that you are unwilling to address my points ... ... even though they weren't questions, as stated later on, which is kind of irrelevant though.
I was replying properly ... ... you're the one who refuses to do it. :)
Here, I'll write it down for you again ... ... in a modified manner.
1. This topic is a dead horse. 1a. A dead horse remains dead, no matter how much you beat it. It doesn't work that way anyway.
Why do you feel the need to create a new one?
2. There are tons of threads about this already, which share the end this one will have.
Why do you think this one will end differently?
3. CCP's ruling is clear. Why do you believe this here will change anything, compared to the multitude of other threads like this one?
4. What would you say does it tell about people when they create threads like these?
Thank you for your cooperation! I am Sol. I cook my bacon naked. New capsuleer in need of money? You hope there is more you can do than mining or being a slave to an agent? THERE IS! Send me a mail! |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
696
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Posted - 2014.10.11 11:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Those against ISOboxer are just e-honor idiots who think the game has some code of chivalry or bushido, yet looking at anything from jita local (double your isk) to barge ganking (crappy ships, low tank on types blow up to dirt cheap ships even when used in numbers) to can flipping to ninja salvagers (those two seem dead mostly)...that's honorable? There is no "good fight" in eve, its about how and what you do to defeat the other guy, good fight is when you enjoy it and if it requires you to out number the other guy....then you obviously enjoy defeating them and watch their rage on the forums.
ISOboxer isn't AFK (as in Away from Keyboard, barely able to pass the Turing Test) AI system so you don't need to be at the computer, its a program that copies multiple clicks across the same account while sitting at the computer. It mimics input and lets you utilize multiple copies of the same ship, same build, same design set up across many accounts. No different than having 12 guys who all do the same task of locking the same ship and hitting F1 or one guy hitting F1 using ISO. Botting is the ability to walk away from keyboard and the program does the work for you, ISO just divides the work while sitting at the desk to a dozen drones.
Most rage is about how you lost, plain and simple. First paragraph said how and what you do to defeat the other guy regardless of honor/right or wrong/ethics as its just blowing up the other guy first, even if its one guy with 12 accounts or 12 guys with one account. If its ganking a freighter and it blows up...someone or some group is enjoying how they play eve. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11500
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Posted - 2014.10.11 11:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
If they're actually implementing a stealth nerf to cloaking by making cloaked ships decloak each other, it really won't affect bombers one bit. People did bombing runs before Crucible. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
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