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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.14 16:30:00 -
[1]
Pluto Decision
I'm in the camp who says no, it should not be considered a planet based in its orbit.
I think a new classification has to be detailed to correctly name Kuiper belt objects, as we will undoubtedly find more of them, and some may even behave more like planets...
So this has to be nipped in the bud, or we could go from 8 planets to 100 planets in like 5 years...
I'm not against ICE planets, but I believe Pluto's out of plane & elliptical Neptune crossing orbit is an indication that it's not a planet IMO.
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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DgO4
CALDARI NAVY 'Wolf Pack' 5th Squadron Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.08.14 16:33:00 -
[2]
Aparently its just a massive ball (sorta, not completely spherical) of ice which kinda tagged onto the solar system. I say get Chribba to mine it...oh wait its not veld!
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.14 16:38:00 -
[3]
Originally by: DgO4 Aparently its just a massive ball (sorta, not completely spherical) of ice which kinda tagged onto the solar system. I say get Chribba to mine it...oh wait its not veld!
It has it's own "moon" Charon though...
I'm not sure how much Charon makes Pluto wobble along the elliptical... (so more like a companion Kuiper belt object I guess) It's probably just a chuck of Pluto that got blasted off in a collision...
But that I think is an argument some use to say it is indeed a Planet... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.14 17:41:00 -
[4]
There's objects larger than Pluto, in similar orbits, which we don't want to classify as planets.
Ergo, we don't want to classify Pluto as a planet. If we'd only just discovered it, this wouldn't even be a discussion; we would KNOW it's not a planet. It's only because people in 1930 didn't know, and were expecting to find a planet, that they assumed they had done. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.14 17:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr There's objects larger than Pluto, in similar orbits, which we don't want to classify as planets.
Ergo, we don't want to classify Pluto as a planet. If we'd only just discovered it, this wouldn't even be a discussion; we would KNOW it's not a planet. It's only because people in 1930 didn't know, and were expecting to find a planet, that they assumed they had done.
So true, yet many astronomers are arguing to keep it at planet status...
In fact, astronomers seem to be divided on the subject... Can't believe so many of then are in favor of the planet classification... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Clementina
God's of Eve
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Posted - 2006.08.14 18:08:00 -
[6]
Honestly, I think anything that is round due to its gravity and orbits a star should be a planet. I like the solution by which they make up several qualifications for a planet. For Instance a Gaian Planet would be a planet made up mostly of rock and iron. a Jovian Planet would be a planet made up mostly of hydrogen or methane, and a Plutonian Planet would be a planet that is made up of ice and lives in a Kuniper belt.
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Ithuriel
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.14 20:02:00 -
[7]
So if Pluto is a planet, then the next larger rock out from it will have to be one too. I'm not living in a solar system whose 10th planet is named "Xena", so Pluto has to go. Thanks a lot Michael Brown, you ******* ****head, nice name.
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Kollgorholl
Gallente Draconis Navitas Aeterna Pure.
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Posted - 2006.08.14 20:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bhaal
It has it's own "moon" Charon though...
I'm not sure how much Charon makes Pluto wobble along the elliptical... (so more like a companion Kuiper belt object I guess) It's probably just a chunck of Pluto that got blasted off in a collision...
But that I think is an argument some use to say it is indeed a Planet...
Charon is not a moon, It does not orbit Pluto, rather Charon and Pluto orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. Charon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two.
I personally think Pluto should be left as a planet but purely for sentimental reasons, all other objects can be classified as kuiper belt objects, but Pluto should remain the icy world whirling around the sun on its crazy off plane elliptical orbit.
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Yello1
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Posted - 2006.08.14 20:20:00 -
[9]
Tradition!!!!!!!!!
Yes, it should be classed as a planet. Even if subsequent ones of like size are not considered such. Tevya would have it no other way.
(Id link a pic of Fiddler on the Roof here, but thats not allowed right??) Yes, Im THAT Yello1 |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.14 20:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kollgorholl Charon is not a moon, It does not orbit Pluto, rather Charon and Pluto orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. Charon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two.
And, quoting but changing the location:
Originally by: Kollgorholl The Moon is not a moon, It does not orbit Earth, rather the Moon and Earth orbit one another around a central point in between the two objects. The Moon just gets called a moon cause its the smaller of the two.
I think we can knock that idea on the head now. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
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Meridius
Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.14 21:11:00 -
[11]
They need to set up rules for what a planet should be.
Personally i think it should be based on size and distance from the star. It would solve the problem with Pluto since the kuiper belt objects that are larger are too far to meet the criteria for being a planet. - _____
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.14 21:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Meridius They need to set up rules for what a planet should be.
Personally i think it should be based on size and distance from the star. It would solve the problem with Pluto since the kuiper belt objects that are larger are too far to meet the criteria for being a planet.
It'd only solve the problem until we find a Jupiter-sized planet further away from its star than Pluto is from ours; or a Pluto-sized object in a position akin to Mercury; or ....
It's got to be something more basic than that. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.14 21:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Meridius They need to set up rules for what a planet should be.
Personally i think it should be based on size and distance from the star. It would solve the problem with Pluto since the kuiper belt objects that are larger are too far to meet the criteria for being a planet.
It'd only solve the problem until we find a Jupiter-sized planet further away from its star than Pluto is from ours; or a Pluto-sized object in a position akin to Mercury; or ....
It's got to be something more basic than that.
EXACTLY!
We have to think outside of our solar system, as we will be discovering Earth like planets in the coming decades, etc... Which means many many solar systems we will be cataloging.
It has to be a very fundamental set of criteria that can be used across vastly different solar systems...
They have to get this done soon, and come up with something that makes sense...
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Sirkill
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Posted - 2006.08.14 22:13:00 -
[14]
Keep pluto for traditions sake, sod the rest of the buggers.
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Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.08.15 09:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sirkill Keep pluto for traditions sake, sod the rest of the buggers.
Indeed. Cut the crap on discussing this, keep Pluto on planet status and just have everything else be a Kuiper belt object, or whatever.
Pluto has been a planet for too long to just say "hey, it's not anymore!". It's how 99.9999% of the world perceievs the solar system - it has 9 planets. Keep it that way.
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.15 10:16:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Sirkill Keep pluto for traditions sake, sod the rest of the buggers.
Indeed. Cut the crap on discussing this, keep Pluto on planet status and just have everything else be a Kuiper belt object, or whatever.
Pluto has been a planet for too long to just say "hey, it's not anymore!". It's how 99.9999% of the world perceievs the solar system - it has 9 planets. Keep it that way.
And over time as the ppl who learned that Pluto was a planet will die off and the newer generations comming up will all laugh at us for thinking it was a planet...
I hope they make the right decision and yank Pluto's planetary status... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Peter McGregor
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Posted - 2006.08.15 11:44:00 -
[17]
Pluto's status hasn't been changed YEARS ago for one reason only. The reason is... USA. No, really. It's the only planet discovered by an American, so obviously many astronomers from that country are unwilling to have the status changed. They managed to avoid/dismiss the topic for years but now they can't - because of Xena (yeah, that sucks too).
I don't think Pluto should be considered a planet. NOT because it was discovered by Americans, I couldn't care less who discovered the damned rock, but it's nothing like other planets. It's size and mass are those of a planetoid, it's weird orbit suggests clearly that the body has been "trapped" by the gravity of the system eons ago - and that Pluto wasn't formed the same way other planets were.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.15 12:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Reiisha Pluto has been a planet for too long to just say "hey, it's not anymore!". It's how 99.9999% of the world perceievs the solar system - it has 9 planets. Keep it that way.
By the same argument, lime, salt and phlogiston are all elements, and the earth is the centre of the universe.
Definitions change, when new facts demonstrate the old definitions to be silly ones. It is, by now, patently silly to call Pluto a planet. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.15 12:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Peter McGregor Pluto's status hasn't been changed YEARS ago for one reason only. The reason is... USA. No, really. It's the only planet discovered by an American, so obviously many astronomers from that country are unwilling to have the status changed. They managed to avoid/dismiss the topic for years but now they can't - because of Xena (yeah, that sucks too).
I don't think Pluto should be considered a planet. NOT because it was discovered by Americans, I couldn't care less who discovered the damned rock, but it's nothing like other planets. It's size and mass are those of a planetoid, it's weird orbit suggests clearly that the body has been "trapped" by the gravity of the system eons ago - and that Pluto wasn't formed the same way other planets were.
Sure, blame it on us Americans, we cause all of the problems...
Well, this American believes Pluto is not a planet, could care less who discovered it...
Politics & national pride should have nothing to do with decisions such as these IMO.
America was very late in the Astronomy game cause we're only 230 years old, a youngin compared to the rest of you "guys"
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Krandor87
Gallente Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:06:00 -
[20]
Both Pluto and Xena have an atmosphere. therefore they should be planets and as for orbit all orbits are eliptical so the fact that Pluto can be closer than Neptune means nothing.
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Whats a sig good for?
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Ithuriel
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:17:00 -
[21]
The only person who benefits from the deplanetization (word?) of Pluto is Goofy. With the devaluation of Pluto, Goofy will be unchallenged as the preeminent canine of the Disney empire. I sense kickback money. I for one will not let decisions of astronomical proportions be handled by a dog who wears suspenders.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Krandor87 Both Pluto and Xena have an atmosphere. therefore they should be planets and as for orbit all orbits are eliptical so the fact that Pluto can be closer than Neptune means nothing.
Titan has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet.
And if you're going to argue that Titan is eliminated because it orbits another planet:
Halley's Comet has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet.
Try again. These things are never as easy as you think. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Kurren
Farscape Mining
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:23:00 -
[23]
Why exactly is this debate important? I would rather start concidering those larger objects as planets instead of canceling planets out. That just seems silly to me. In my opinion, no good will come from canceling Pluto's planet status. No bad will come from it either. It's just... there. No matter what we call it... it's there. All canceling Pluto's status will do is **** off a few people at his country club, he'll have to give his insignia jacket back, and now he'll have to start paying taxes. --- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
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Krulla
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:23:00 -
[24]
I'd just like to point out that, if Xena will indeed be classified as the tenth planet, it will not be named Xena. That is just the nickname given to it by the man who found it... Currently, the most likely name for Xena will be Persephone.
Personally, if Xena would have been the official name of our tenth planet, I'd have resigned from the human race in disgust.
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kurren Why exactly is this debate important? I would rather start concidering those larger objects as planets instead of canceling planets out. That just seems silly to me. In my opinion, no good will come from canceling Pluto's planet status. No bad will come from it either. It's just... there. No matter what we call it... it's there. All canceling Pluto's status will do is **** off a few people at his country club, he'll have to give his insignia jacket back, and now he'll have to start paying taxes.
Because it's not just a matter of the size of the celestial body... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.15 14:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kurren Why exactly is this debate important? I would rather start concidering those larger objects as planets instead of canceling planets out
A valid opinion. The problem with it is that we'll wind up with a solar system of several thousand planets, because it seems extremely likely that Pluto and Xena are not, by any stretch, the largest objects out there.
Maybe a system of several thousand planets is fine. Personally, I don't think so. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Buxaroo
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.15 16:37:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Buxaroo on 15/08/2006 16:39:43 From a realistic point of view it doesn't really matter if it is a planet or a kuiper belt entity. But from a more asthetic point of view I beleive it should be removed from the planet pantheon. Even when I was younger and learned of it's irregular orbit, I knew something was not right. I then read about the Kuiper belt and what lays inside it. Even though it was not really discussed at the time, I thought of Pluto as a captured comet or errant asteroid that got caught.
It makes perfect sense to me to name it a Kuiper belt object. Although I am inclined to keep it as is out of old times sake like one of the posters said above. But the latent scientist in me wants to name it what it trully is: captured comet/asteroid of the Kuiper belt.
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Da'Neth
Gallente Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.15 17:31:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Da''Neth on 15/08/2006 17:31:32 I will hold my judgment on Pluto till the NASA mission get there in 2015. As it is now even with all the hi-tech telescopes we canĘt even get a clear picture of what Pluto looks like. Hubble pic New Horizons misson to Pluto ---
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kessah
Caldari Blood Corsairs
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Posted - 2006.08.16 02:17:00 -
[29]
Edited by: kessah on 16/08/2006 02:19:05 Hmmm tough one there.
Whatever the classification for what is a planet and whats basicially space debris, i do think size and distance from the star relative to the distance between the closer planets should play a role.
Perhaps the longest distance bewtween two planets in our solar could be the cut off point? *not including pluto tho*
I mean pluto is just a giant ice rock, any time i watch a documentary telly show they go through all the other planets upto neptune in detail then skip pluto.
Then again is mercury much different? other than it being made from mostly from iron. Perhaps the celestial body's structure should play a role? common materials such as methane ice.. hmmmm
Pluto does have more than one moon, the other two of note called nyx and hydra.
I personally vote that it should stay a planet but only on the merit of it being taught to children as being the 9th planet for over 75 years. Sort of an 'horourary planet'
btw aint trying to be a smartass there i did read up on it in my Universe book \o/ *cough* nerd *cough* --------------------------------------------------------
Forever Pirate |
Dr Happy
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Posted - 2006.08.16 03:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Krandor87 Both Pluto and Xena have an atmosphere. therefore they should be planets and as for orbit all orbits are eliptical so the fact that Pluto can be closer than Neptune means nothing.
Titan has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet.
And if you're going to argue that Titan is eliminated because it orbits another planet:
Halley's Comet has an atmosphere, therefore it should be a planet.
Try again. These things are never as easy as you think.
yes but titan is orbiting an object other then are sun eer well has an object exerting it's primary gravitational pull
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