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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2355
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 03:18:00 -
[301] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Its almost like they know nothing about null and its history.
Goons used to be cute and fuzzy, like hero is now, with mass frigates and such. But then they blue'd a bunch of people, creating the greater goon community or something similar, and got a lot of space, more then BoB ever had.
Is any of that factually incorrect? |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8585
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 03:20:00 -
[302] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: For the record, i have problems with Occupancy Sov as an idea (I think the people who have that idea are mostly PVPrs who don't understand PVErs like me and it's foolish to make 'people you don't understand' the corner stone of a sov system this is why Dominion Sov with it's 'activity indexes' has failed). I don't like a lot of the ideas people have (like NPC space in every region) also. but I think they made those proposals because they are mistaken, not because they are 'evil'.
I'm curious how you expect occupancy based sov to negatively impact your play style
Exactly who said anything about negativly impacting my play style? I clearly stated my problem with the idea of occupancy sov: PVPers don't understand non-pvp players, basing a whioel sov system off of people you don't understand it a mistake waiting to happen.
Side note, I think the term "play style" is the dumbest thing anyone has ever come up with when talking about a video game. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13642
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 03:35:00 -
[303] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: For the record, i have problems with Occupancy Sov as an idea (I think the people who have that idea are mostly PVPrs who don't understand PVErs like me and it's foolish to make 'people you don't understand' the corner stone of a sov system this is why Dominion Sov with it's 'activity indexes' has failed). I don't like a lot of the ideas people have (like NPC space in every region) also. but I think they made those proposals because they are mistaken, not because they are 'evil'.
I'm curious how you expect occupancy based sov to negatively impact your play style Exactly who said anything about negativly impacting my play style? I clearly stated my problem with the idea of occupancy sov: PVPers don't understand non-pvp players, basing a whioel sov system off of people you don't understand it a mistake waiting to happen. Side note, I think the term "play style" is the dumbest thing anyone has ever come up with when talking about a video game.
We understand the pve types, its a big reason why we are so successful in dealing with them Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
799
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 04:01:00 -
[304] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote: Its almost like they know nothing about null and its history.
Goons used to be cute and fuzzy, like hero is now, with mass frigates and such. But then they blue'd a bunch of people, creating the greater goon community or something similar, and got a lot of space, more then BoB ever had. Is any of that factually incorrect?
Oh look, the Godwin's Law of Eve. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2356
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 04:13:00 -
[305] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote: Its almost like they know nothing about null and its history.
Goons used to be cute and fuzzy, like hero is now, with mass frigates and such. But then they blue'd a bunch of people, creating the greater goon community or something similar, and got a lot of space, more then BoB ever had. Is any of that factually incorrect? Oh look, the Godwin's Law of Eve. So no factual inaccuracies then, good to know. |
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1120
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 04:17:00 -
[306] - Quote
I don't know. The whole issue of Null Sec is self defeating. It happens in all games that let one side get too powerful.
Eventually the losing side gets tired of losing so they stop playing and the winning side gets tired of no one to fight so they stop playing.
This is a problem EVE cannot solve. But then again... EVE is one of those games I have sinking feeling won't be around in 5-10 years without going F2P. I don't see that working though, but who knows as Ultima Online is still around. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. Captain Tardbar: The official grumpy cat of General Discussion. |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
1055
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 04:31:00 -
[307] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I don't know. The whole issue of Null Sec is self defeating. It happens in all games that let one side get too powerful.
Eventually the losing side gets tired of losing so they stop playing and the winning side gets tired of no one to fight so they stop playing.
This is a problem EVE cannot solve. But then again... EVE is one of those games I have sinking feeling won't be around in 5-10 years without going F2P. I don't see that working though, but who knows as Ultima Online is still around. Disagree.
PvP games are most popular when they are called PvP but most resemble PvE. Why? Because in video games players have a low tolerance for risk. And what usually happens is that the losing side joins the winning side and most are happy because they can say they are on the winning side except the one kid who always wanted to play the Indian instead of the Cowboy.
So I don't agree with Devlon but in some ways agree with the OP. Players creating theme parks is effective in retaining their members. They have eliminated the risk while allowing their members to call themselves l33t PvPers. However it is not going to grow the overall game. For that to happen it is up to CCP to create an environment and content that improves the new player experience for casuals. Unfortunately CCP has grown accustomed to their player base creating the content and CCP is now relegated to the next rebalancing and texturing of ships.
This is where I disagree with the OP. If CCP was good at creating other games then EvE could survive as a niche game. Unfortunately CCP has tried to fund new projects using a niche game. That is bad news. Now either CCP has to lose their ambitions and say EvE is it or figure out how to create something else successful. What happens in the next year will reveal how realistic or delusional CCP is. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1120
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 04:43:00 -
[308] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I don't know. The whole issue of Null Sec is self defeating. It happens in all games that let one side get too powerful.
Eventually the losing side gets tired of losing so they stop playing and the winning side gets tired of no one to fight so they stop playing.
This is a problem EVE cannot solve. But then again... EVE is one of those games I have sinking feeling won't be around in 5-10 years without going F2P. I don't see that working though, but who knows as Ultima Online is still around. Disagree. PvP games are most popular when they are called PvP but most resemble PvE. Why? Because in video games players have a low tolerance for risk. And what usually happens is that the losing side joins the winning side and most are happy because they can say they are on the winning side except the one kid who always wanted to play the Indian instead of the Cowboy. So I don't agree with Devlon but in some ways agree with the OP. Players creating theme parks is effective in retaining their members. They have eliminated the risk while allowing their members to call themselves l33t PvPers. However it is not going to grow the overall game. For that to happen it is up to CCP to create an environment and content that improves the new player experience for casuals. Unfortunately CCP has grown accustomed to their player base creating the content and CCP is now relegated to the next rebalancing and texturing of ships. This is where I disagree with the OP. If CCP was good at creating other games then EvE could survive as a niche game. Unfortunately CCP has tried to fund new projects using a niche game. That is bad news. Now either CCP has to lose their ambitions and say EvE is it or figure out how to create something else successful. What happens in the next year will reveal how realistic or delusional CCP is.
Hrm... I'm not sure how you are disagreeing, but what I was referring to is the sandbox dilemma with open PVP. Games that have historically had pure sandbox pvp often run into one side completely dominating. Examples of this were various PK alliances in Ultima Online (this was before team speak too), Death Head Legion in Shadowbane, and Ruin in Warhammer Online. Warhammer Online was less of a sandbox, but the PVP was rather open.
Each of these games ended up with the problem that one side dominated and the other side basically gave up. Its realistic like real war, but real war often does not make a fun time for either side of the victory.
I've been playing Albion Online recently. Its an open sandbox much like Ultima Online was (all gear is player crafted and you drop all your gear when you die). However, it has the same problem with one or two guilds zerging and dominating while the other players hide in fear. Its not really sustainable in the long term.
The people who made Dark Age of Camelot realized you have to have exactly 3 equal factions. If one dominates the other two generally ally until one of them dominates and the now loser switches sides. I think they are trying that formula for Camelot Unchained which makes it a sort of sand-park. I'm not sure what Archeage is doing. That games combat is too dull though. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. Captain Tardbar: The official grumpy cat of General Discussion. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 05:40:00 -
[309] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote: There is no occasional belt rat on top, because time going to belts is time not ratting therefore no ticks. Same with scanning signatures.
If this attitude is widespread there is no wonder noone makes money.
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 05:42:00 -
[310] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
A bog standard t2 cruise raven will beat null income. Blitzing missions isnt hard.
With a fabled agent that sends you just within the local system, maybe. |
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Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
799
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 06:37:00 -
[311] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote: Its almost like they know nothing about null and its history.
Goons used to be cute and fuzzy, like hero is now, with mass frigates and such. But then they blue'd a bunch of people, creating the greater goon community or something similar, and got a lot of space, more then BoB ever had. Is any of that factually incorrect? Oh look, the Godwin's Law of Eve. So no factual inaccuracies then, good to know.
Don't tell anyone, but we are also an alliance, made up of corporations. We also have a CEO, and our alliance is named with an acronym, just like BoB.
The shame is almost unbearable. |
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc. Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 07:06:00 -
[312] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:baltec1 wrote: Force projection isnt as big an issue as many think, its what happens when we arrive. Right now our fleets are effectivly immortal vs smaller alliances.
TL;DR: Nerf logi, really hard. Anyway, he's right. Whether they can pop up out of nowhere or not, the fact remains that the critical mass of ships required to break sufficient amounts of reps are only available to a small few groups in the game. If they have to slowboat or not, you're still not going to beat their fleet once they get there. And that's the real problem.
Someone came up with the idea of logistics being affected by resists. It s a pretty good idea. Free CCP Zymurgist, RubyPorto, Talon SilverHawk, Karl Hobb, Malacath Azaria IB4TS |
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc. Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 07:56:00 -
[313] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.
"My time is worth nothing" Free CCP Zymurgist, RubyPorto, Talon SilverHawk, Karl Hobb, Malacath Azaria IB4TS |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
140
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:21:00 -
[314] - Quote
Syllviaa wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.
"My time is worth nothing" Minerals you mine yourself are free too. I guess that also extends to POS and jump fuel, right? And since all those things are free... that means moon goo is free too!
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Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc. Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:25:00 -
[315] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Syllviaa wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.
"My time is worth nothing" Minerals you mine yourself are free too. I guess that also extends to POS and jump fuel, right? And since all those things are free... that means moon goo is free too!
Except it's not, because my time is worth something. RIP Richard A. Butt |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
4656
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:29:00 -
[316] - Quote
Syllviaa wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:Syllviaa wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.
"My time is worth nothing" Minerals you mine yourself are free too. I guess that also extends to POS and jump fuel, right? And since all those things are free... that means moon goo is free too! Except it's not, because my time is worth something.
Time is worthless, especially if you play game when it passes.
If you want to get money, you have to make things, do work, not "sell your time". If one can do work in one minute, that for you will take like an hour, than he won and can play the game in this worthless time of his. Ideas to boost fun factor in Planetary Interaction. |
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite CODE.
500
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:35:00 -
[317] - Quote
I just wanted to state that the answer to this is C) The Magna Carta But my intel might be off. The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á |
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc. Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:37:00 -
[318] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Time is worthless, especially if you play game when it passes.
If you want to get money, you have to make things, do work, not "sell your time". If one can do work in one minute, that for you will take like an hour, than he won and can play the game in this worthless time of his.
You know that time is factored in to the cost of basically everything right? RIP Richard A. Butt |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
4656
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:44:00 -
[319] - Quote
Syllviaa wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Time is worthless, especially if you play game when it passes.
If you want to get money, you have to make things, do work, not "sell your time". If one can do work in one minute, that for you will take like an hour, than he won and can play the game in this worthless time of his. You know that time is factored in to the cost of basically everything right?
So what, noone pay you for playing the game in the first place. You have to pay them, monthly. The same amount of money. Ideas to boost fun factor in Planetary Interaction. |
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc. Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:47:00 -
[320] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Syllviaa wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Time is worthless, especially if you play game when it passes.
If you want to get money, you have to make things, do work, not "sell your time". If one can do work in one minute, that for you will take like an hour, than he won and can play the game in this worthless time of his. You know that time is factored in to the cost of basically everything right? So what, noone pay you for playing the game in the first place. You have to pay them, monthly. The same amount of money.
People who watch my stream pay me for playing the game. Rekt. My time is worth something & people are willing to pay me for it. Since your time is worth nothing, would you mind supplying me with 30 million Gallente fuel blocks per month for 15% Jita price? RIP Richard A. Butt |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
4656
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 08:50:00 -
[321] - Quote
They pay you, because they like how you play the game, not because you play it. Rekt enough? Ideas to boost fun factor in Planetary Interaction. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
4656
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 09:11:00 -
[322] - Quote
Quote:Since your time is worth nothing, would you mind supplying me with 30 million Gallente fuel blocks per month for 15% Jita price? Why would you try to convince me? You would destroy my freighter and loot the fuel blocks for less if you would know how to do that. Ideas to boost fun factor in Planetary Interaction. |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
140
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 09:44:00 -
[323] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Vald Tegor wrote: There is no occasional belt rat on top, because time going to belts is time not ratting therefore no ticks. Same with scanning signatures.
If this attitude is widespread there is no wonder noone makes money. It's not an attitude. It's my personal anecdotal evidence. Going from Tribute to Venal to Tenal to Cobalt Edge and back again for a couple ticks worth of ratting bounties and overseer effects is not what i call "making money". Sure, when you get a several hundred mil deadspace drop + battleship blueprint+effects that sounds awesome. But that is far from the norm. It does not average out to that when you account for time spent properly - especially when talking about a rattlesnake blueprint. Based on my track record of running escalations (0 probing or initial travel time involved) I gave up after a few months.
I might play around with checking belts between anoms. I expect my ticks to drop to around 15. |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
140
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 10:09:00 -
[324] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: For the record, i have problems with Occupancy Sov as an idea (I think the people who have that idea are mostly PVPrs who don't understand PVErs like me and it's foolish to make 'people you don't understand' the corner stone of a sov system this is why Dominion Sov with it's 'activity indexes' has failed). I don't like a lot of the ideas people have (like NPC space in every region) also. but I think they made those proposals because they are mistaken, not because they are 'evil'.
I'm curious how you expect occupancy based sov to negatively impact your play style Exactly who said anything about negativly impacting my play style? I clearly stated my problem with the idea of occupancy sov: PVPers don't understand non-pvp players, basing a whioel sov system off of people you don't understand it a mistake waiting to happen. Side note, I think the term "play style" is the dumbest thing anyone has ever come up with when talking about a video game. Sorry, I misread that.
I don't know to what extent the PvPers are expecting dedicated PvE players to actually live in null and "hold down the sov" in the first place. They think their current level of PvE activity will be sufficient to hold what they need. I also don't know that they necessarily equate occupancy with PvE only. Killing non-cloaked hostiles and keeping them out of the system could also be viewed as a factor in occupying the system. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10096
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 10:23:00 -
[325] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I don't know. The whole issue of Null Sec is self defeating. It happens in all games that let one side get too powerful.
So, any and every sandbox.
Yeah, unlike you, I for one am not ready to just throw out the core principles of the game just yet. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs. |
Captain Jazzmag
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 11:07:00 -
[326] - Quote
Paynus Maiassus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Paynus Maiassus wrote:
That the blocs have taken the game to its logical conclusion is not a point of debate here. It's the nature of the fixes that are the issue. What Gevlon and others are saying is that people seem to be rallying around the voices of their bloc leaders in advocating changes, and these bloc leaders are basically motivated by self interest, and that this should call them into question.
If I read the goon agenda correctly, they want an occupancy sov mechanic that will ensure that they are never uprooted from Deklein, and while Goons generally are not supportive of the jump travel nerf, since it's happening, they want increased revenue per system so they can have everything they want in Deklein. To me this looks like Goon leaders advocating a system where they can sit in Deklein and rat all day and have little 'fun fights' on their border to keep recruiting noobs to press F1 and think it's wonderful.
That just doesn't sit right with me.
It doesn't sit right with you because you're making it all up in your head lol. Your biases and prejudices are the issue here, not what anyone else is doing. Something i read a few years ago seems to be relevant here (and it's why i read your posts and immediately thought of Dinsdale): http://www.alternet.org/story/150730/one_surprising_reason_people_may_believe_bizarre_conspiracy_theoriesQuote:GÇ£These studies suggest that people who have more lax personal morality may endorse conspiracy theories to a greater extent because they are, on average, more willing to participate in the conspiracies themselves.GÇ¥ Meh you're accusing me of personal bias because I have invoked the name of Gevlon, which speaks of your bias, not mine. What I am coming up with in thinking this through is: 1 - I am leaning against occupancy sov as a fix. 2 - I am against increasing wealth per system. Scarcity of wealth drives conflict. 3 - I am against rebalancing moon resources to create locally independent moon goo industries. 4 - I am still aware that null needs a fix. I don't know what it is exactly, but issues of timers and flag planting need to be refined and addressed without moving to a simple occupancy mechanic making sov tougher or easier to take. 5 - there isn't a party out there advocating a system of fixes that I am satisfied with, namely because I can see that every party advocating fixes is not really motivated by making Eve the best game it can be. These are concrete impressions that I am coming up with that are not a slavish blind devotion to Gevlon (although I think the guy is great) nor an unjustified hatred of the Goons (although I am Grr Goon).
There is a consensus that occupancy Sov is the way forwards by the people that live there, the same people who called for a tech nerf, the same people that owned the tech moons.
The people generally against the occupancy Sov system are: a) People who don't live or will never live in Sov but have to give an opinion anyway and don't want that to be the same as a Goon, even though it make sense b) People who see a CFC alliance next to the name of the person advocating it and automatically assume that there is an ulterior motive.
Occupancy Sov, as a concept, is fairly sound. If done correctly - this is CCP remember - it will force organisations to contract into smaller areas because those which are barely used become indefensible. In turn new people move into those areas and you end up with city states which smaller organisations can hold because they use the space.
The danger comes not in the concept but in the execution by CCP. If they were to say tie occupancy to the number of pilots in system in the last day only it would be easy for a large organisation to steam roll in, sit in system for a day meaning its easier for them to take. If they were to base on a series of metrics across general usage over a period of time, says a month, it gives the smaller organisation a strong base with which to defend. This is then tied into structure EHP, timers and possibly later down the line core systems in regions and constellations i.e. capital systems.
There are dangers and caveats to all of this, however the concept of occupancy is quite sound over the current systems. It's up to CCP to implement. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8588
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:30:00 -
[327] - Quote
Captain Jazzmag wrote:
There is a consensus that occupancy Sov is the way forwards by the people that live there, the same people who called for a tech nerf, the same people that owned the tech moons.
The people generally against the occupancy Sov system are: a) People who don't live or will never live in Sov but have to give an opinion anyway and don't want that to be the same as a Goon, even though it make sense b) People who see a CFC alliance next to the name of the person advocating it and automatically assume that there is an ulterior motive.
Occupancy Sov, as a concept, is fairly sound. If done correctly - this is CCP remember - it will force organisations to contract into smaller areas because those which are barely used become indefensible. In turn new people move into those areas and you end up with city states which smaller organisations can hold because they use the space.
The danger comes not in the concept but in the execution by CCP. If they were to say tie occupancy to the number of pilots in system in the last day only it would be easy for a large organisation to steam roll in, sit in system for a day meaning its easier for them to take. If they were to base on a series of metrics across general usage over a period of time, says a month, it gives the smaller organisation a strong base with which to defend. This is then tied into structure EHP, timers and possibly later down the line core systems in regions and constellations i.e. capital systems.
There are dangers and caveats to all of this, however the concept of occupancy is quite sound over the current systems. It's up to CCP to implement.
This is the same kind of thinking that led to Dominion in the 1st place (sidenote here, does NO ONE ever read the links to the past DEV Blogs I put up showing how all this stuff has bee talked about before? No wonder history keeps repeating itsell like an episode of Battlestar Galactica on SyFy...)
I underlined the word that is the problem. As CCP tend to think, many players also think they can 'FORCE' people to do something in a sandbox MMO. Those efforts have failed time and time and time and time again and yet, like bad economic theory in real life, people cling to the failed ideology because they lack the will and creativity to understand anything else.
Every 5-6 years in this game their are 2 things: A 'scapegoat concept' (the thing blamed above all other reasons for the 'current situation', this time around it's "power projection") and a 'Savior Concept' (the simple thing that if CCP just implements it it, will solve all the problems, this despite the fact that EVE Online is a super complex and interconnected system used by unpredictable human being and thus totally immune to ANY simple fix...)
The Savior concept this time is of course 'occupancy SOV', which like all such things will.not.work. the way people think it will. It wo't work for the exact same reasons as the anomaly nerf didn't work: People have options.
Nothing is going to change unless you completely nerf high sec pve (missions, exploration and incursions), low sec pve (lvl 5 missions and FW pve) and wormhole high end pve (c5-c6 type stuff) OR amp up null sec pve rewards to the insane level they'd have to be to compete with 250 mil an hour low sec mission blitzing with a cheap ship, or worse, the 4-600 mil an hour FW missioning in freaking cheap ships that is STILL going on even today (and i know, because I have an alt each in the Minmatar and Gallente militias). Buit if you do that, you explode the EVe economy like was done with the 500 mil an hour ratting titans, EVEN if you switch from isk spewing anomalies to LP spewing missions.
The above is just one of the reason occupancy Sov won't work. Another is scale, people who make things (ie, the people the PVPrs in this case don't understand) don't want to REPLACE pvp loses, they want to generate profits, and in this game you do that by exporting. You'd have to turn null sec into an EXPORTER of finished goods like Jita is right now to get the kinds of people occupancy SOV would need to work to live in null sec. ie you'd have to turn the game on it's ear economically and that makes no sense because to create that you need stability which would lead to MORE BLUEING as it became more profitable to cooperate than fight (again).
TL:DR We (the EVE Community) has been through all of this before. When people get tired of the Sov System of the day, they lose sight of what's really going on and just want the "bad" to stop. So they advocate to CCP reasonable sounding but ultimately flawed fixes, CCP comes up with their own backwards thinking fixes to implement instead, and the cycle repeats itself over and over ag |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13650
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:43:00 -
[328] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:baltec1 wrote:
A bog standard t2 cruise raven will beat null income. Blitzing missions isnt hard.
With a fabled agent that sends you just within the local system, maybe.
If only there was a way to get the warp speeds to 5au/sec Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
229
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:56:00 -
[329] - Quote
Syllviaa wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:So how do you get such a ship for free? You make it.
"My time is worth nothing"
You're talking an opportunity cost which is something that is considered when talking about economic costs but it not something you consider when talking about accounting costs. He wanted to know how to get a ship without spending all that isk. He was talking about an accounting cost. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2357
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 15:00:00 -
[330] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:baltec1 wrote: Its almost like they know nothing about null and its history.
Goons used to be cute and fuzzy, like hero is now, with mass frigates and such. But then they blue'd a bunch of people, creating the greater goon community or something similar, and got a lot of space, more then BoB ever had. Is any of that factually incorrect? Oh look, the Godwin's Law of Eve. So no factual inaccuracies then, good to know. Don't tell anyone, but we are also an alliance, made up of corporations. We also have a CEO, and our alliance is named with an acronym, just like BoB. The shame is almost unbearable. Perhaps you can expound on the differences you see between your organization and BoB that don't involve proper nouns. |
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