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Sn4k3 3y3s
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Posted - 2006.08.16 11:10:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain I dont read local in empire for a reason
Other then that, petition his ass if he offends you.
Oh you should. Yesterday in oursulaert local someone asked how to clean an LCD screen. 3 replies mustered up - Ajax and a brillo pad Vaccum cleaners Buy a new one.
Oursu ftw!
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Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.16 11:14:00 -
[62]
Free speech FTW
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M3ta
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.08.16 11:19:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain I dont read local in empire for a reason
Other then that, petition his ass if he offends you.
Ah, harassment petitions, the ones that are quickly answered by a GM saying "we will investigate and take further action if necessary" (yes it's a template), and yet, nothing is ever done.
Forget any kind of support in these situations, the only friend there is... it's the 'block' option. ------------------------------ loose != lose you're != your it's != its they're != there
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Kovacs Caprios
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.16 11:22:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Capt Harlock Free speech FTW
There is nothing wrong with free speech, but it is wrong to purposefully offend people.
No I am sure I will get flamed.. as you are all away even free speech is restricted even more so in UK and the USA.
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2006.08.16 11:31:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Drilla Political Correctness is retarded
Behaving well/good manners and acting politically correct is two very different things.
We can quote definitions all we want, but the fact is that the term for most people is connected to mentally handicapped people. People that have people that love them.
Then we can argue whether its ok or an established way to use the term in a generalising and derogatory fashion in a public space like Eve. And that was what the OP did - and in a calm and genuinely caring way.
So lets keep the obviously desperate arguments off the table, shall we.
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Crae Matreki
Caldari Blackstar Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.16 12:22:00 -
[66]
Retarded is mis-use of a perfectly harmless word. Just coz two people associate it with the mentally handicapped, it doesn't mean the word should be banned. The offence was in the context, but then what makes it any more offensive than saying 'you're stupid'?
Come to think of it.. you may think dumb is a pretty inoffensive word, but what if the person you call dumb turns out to actually BE dumb? I doubt he'd be offended, tho, and he'll probably just reply 'yeah, i am actually' and then cackle as you go into some kind of overdrive of political correctness, and ban yourself from ever talking again.
Besides, maybe the OP was retarded. Maybe he had a crap ship setup, which would mean his ship was artificially restricted in its performance.
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Antskyeeh
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.08.16 16:30:00 -
[67]
There is an easy solution to spam in local: Right-click on the offender's char and select "Block"
Case closed.
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Gericault m0id
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2006.08.16 17:10:00 -
[68]
Retarded: "To cause to move or proceed slowly; delay or impede."
Whether it is incapacity to communicate efficiently or you're causing a gridlock with a freighter or a wheelchair shouldn't really matter.
If the offended party has a problem with a specific word it's usually because of negative connotations which the offendee might or might not be aware of. Would that make him a mongoloid? Probably not (unless, possibly, if he's playing on the Chinese server).
And some more:
1. the young smacktalker might have been roleplaying in which case it should be perfectly legitimate. You're making the mistake of being offended irl.
2. Should I be offended by the fact that you think of retards as people with handicaps? I've got a massive handicap but I still love the game.
grr... I'm tired.
I do agree that anybody spamming local with nonsense is annoying. The best way is probably to ignore them and hope they go away. Alternatively, leave the system.
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Eleis Machuron
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Posted - 2006.08.16 17:29:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Crae Matreki Retarded is mis-use of a perfectly harmless word.
***** is a mis-use of a perfectly harmless word; that doesn't make it OK to use in the context described either in terms of the EULA or in polite company.
Setting aside the BS and smoke about 'freedom of speech' and 'choosing to be offended', whatever happened to being a good sport and playing fair? Trash talk is rampant in this game, but I've been in other communities where it's not OK. What's wrong with promoting politeness and mutual respect in the game?
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nahtoh
Caldari Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.16 17:41:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Originally by: Drilla Political Correctness is retarded
Behaving well/good manners and acting politically correct is two very different things.
We can quote definitions all we want, but the fact is that the term for most people is connected to mentally handicapped people. People that have people that love them.
Then we can argue whether its ok or an established way to use the term in a generalising and derogatory fashion in a public space like Eve. And that was what the OP did - and in a calm and genuinely caring way.
So lets keep the obviously desperate arguments off the table, shall we.
I have highlighted the desperate argument and in this thread seemly minorty view... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
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Mesacc
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.16 18:03:00 -
[71]
Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 15/08/2006 22:49:16 This evening, a young guy in local was smacktalking away and calling people 'retarded'. I politely asked him to stop, making the point that I found the phrase offensive, but he continued to use the phrase (deliberately now, to wind me up) despite my polite requests.
I'm curious - what do other people in the community think. Is the word 'retarded' any less offensive than derogatory words against people from certain religious or racial background? It's a word that's well known to be highly offensive when used against those with an actual handicap, so should it be tolerated whilst similar phrases used against specific religions or cultural backgrounds are not?
Even if the majority finds it perfectly legitimate, should it be appropriate when a large minority are offended by it?
Maybe i'm the only one here who finds it offensive. What are your thoughts?
This isn't intended to be flamebait, just a legitimate test of public views.
The only thing that really gets under my skin is the word "offended". Everyone is so scared nowdays that there gonna offend someone. Everyone wants to define what is offensive and what isnt. Who gives a rats a$$. If someone offends you get over it. Grow a backbone. There are far worse things in this world that can happen to someone than being "offended."
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.16 19:02:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Valan on 16/08/2006 19:02:01 You have to take into account cultural difference, The word retarded is probably frowned upon by most in the uk. If you use it here I immediatley discount the person entirely as not worth listening to. Americans use it more freely and you have to allow for it.
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General Windypops
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:02:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 16/08/2006 19:02:01 You have to take into account cultural difference, The word retarded is probably frowned upon by most in the uk. If you use it here I immediatley discount the person entirely as not worth listening to. Americans use it more freely and you have to allow for it.
A very interesting point. Also interesting that if you look at the posts made 'overnight' by UK time standard (i.e. predominance of US players) they support use of the word, whereas during EU active times there's more dislike of the phrase.
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:05:00 -
[74]
Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 16/08/2006 19:02:01 You have to take into account cultural difference, The word retarded is probably frowned upon by most in the uk. If you use it here I immediatley discount the person entirely as not worth listening to. Americans use it more freely and you have to allow for it.
A very interesting point. Also interesting that if you look at the posts made 'overnight' by UK time standard (i.e. predominance of US players) they support use of the word, whereas during EU active times there's more dislike of the phrase.
I don't speak for all of us here in the USA. But you do realise we aren't so much supporting the use of the word as supporting your right to say whatever you want.
I personally find it repulsive that people use it this way, but I will defend to the death their right to do so. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:10:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake I personally find it repulsive that people use it this way, but I will defend to the death their right to do so.
Their right to do so *where*? ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Abaddon Nostros
Minmatar Nostros Shipyards
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:11:00 -
[76]
Ok, everyone repeat after me.
I am....
Sofa King...
We Todd Did...
Ok, now say it 5 times fast.
That should answer all your questions.
Originally by: K'reemy G'udness Oh, you wacky carebears. Stay in 0.9, where your biggest problem is an ore thief who calls himself mayor.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:12:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Ioudas Iskariotes
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Well that's easy. What's more important is CCP's policy on offensive language. If someone breaks it, it is your duty to petition them.
The problem is that "offensive" is subjective. And hence unless you outlaw specific "offensive" speech then there is no way to define what is or is not offensive.
Which is the GM's job. Your job is to report anything you think may be offensive. If you're being patently stupid and reporting words like "the" and "which", you'll get a warning for frivolous petitions. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:13:00 -
[78]
Originally by: M3ta Ah, harassment petitions, the ones that are quickly answered by a GM saying "we will investigate and take further action if necessary" (yes it's a template), and yet, nothing is ever done.
ALL of the many petitions I've filed under this category, the text in question has been removed.
Maybe I get harder-working GMs than you ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:18:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Locke DieDrake I personally find it repulsive that people use it this way, but I will defend to the death their right to do so.
Their right to do so *where*?
Anywhere that it is not specificly forbiden.
IE: in eve, online, to your face, at the mall, wherever.
In the context of eve, people should be able to say what they want, if it offends you, then you petition it and the people thats job it is to decide if they want that in their game will make a call on it.
It is not for this forum or anyone on it to decide that retarded, or any other word is "offensive". The very idea that a word can be offensive is repugnant to me. In other words. CONTEXT is king.
But my original post still stand also. Which is that people just need to get over their pansy feelings about how they are upset or hurt or offended by something some asshat said in a chat window.
You think you're offended now? Lets have a chat on the phone, I'll change your definition of the word offended.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Kyreax
Gallente Rising Sun Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:23:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Sn4k3 3y3s Yesterday in oursulaert local someone asked how to clean an LCD screen:
Ajax and a brillo pad.
Hey, I finally got quoted in the forums. Ajax and brillo pads work wonders on your LCD screen. If you think otherwise, you must be retarded.
Don't let your meatloaf. |
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:29:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Valan on 16/08/2006 20:36:20
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
I don't speak for all of us here in the USA. But you do realise we aren't so much supporting the use of the word as supporting your right to say whatever you want.
I personally find it repulsive that people use it this way, but I will defend to the death their right to do so.
I realise it's constitutional but in some cases it would be better if the person involved would shut up. I've seen Americans using racist language in the market channel and get banned for it. They were adamant they had the right to say anything.
In the UK you're not allowed to say just anything. The best example is the recent cases where people have been jailed for encouraging others to blow up planes. The bad side is sometimes people are accused unjustly of being prejudiced.
I can see good in bad in both approaches, its important to be aware of cultural difference if you don't want a smack in the teeth.
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Shiner BockBeer
Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:32:00 -
[82]
I have a sister who is retarded.
I am not offended by it.
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Eleis Machuron
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:34:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Mesacc Everyone is so scared nowdays that there gonna offend someone.
I think this is demonstrably untrue, but why is it so difficult to just be polite? Why is it so important for people to be IMpolite?
Again, what happened to being a good sport and supporting clean gameplay?
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:39:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Valan I realise it's constitutional but in some cases it would be better if the person involved would shut up. I've seen Americans using racist language in the market channel and get banned for it. They were adamant they had the right to say anything.
In the UK you're not allowed to say just anything.
Even in the USA, you don't have that right. These Americans (a small percentage of them) who keep insisting on their constitutional right to say anything they want, anywhere they want, anytime they want - are in for a very rude shock if they ever try to prove it by shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater, or shouting that N-word in front of a black police officer. (Yes, that word is officially outlawed in the United States. Think your constitution makes that impossible? Go try it.) ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Valan
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:43:00 -
[85]
Despite visiting the USA a number of times I wasn't sure how widespread the feeling was in the USA. Nice to hear its subject common sense and decency.
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Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:43:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Ioudas Iskariotes
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Well that's easy. What's more important is CCP's policy on offensive language. If someone breaks it, it is your duty to petition them.
The problem is that "offensive" is subjective. And hence unless you outlaw specific "offensive" speech then there is no way to define what is or is not offensive.
Which is the GM's job. Your job is to report anything you think may be offensive. If you're being patently stupid and reporting words like "the" and "which", you'll get a warning for frivolous petitions.
No, thats STUPID. "think may be" WTF?
If you are deeply offended by something someone says, then report it. If not, just walk away. You have no reason to be going around trying to clean up the language used in the galaxy.
___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Locke DieDrake
Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:47:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 16/08/2006 20:36:20
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
I don't speak for all of us here in the USA. But you do realise we aren't so much supporting the use of the word as supporting your right to say whatever you want.
I personally find it repulsive that people use it this way, but I will defend to the death their right to do so.
I realise it's constitutional but in some cases it would be better if the person involved would shut up. I've seen Americans using racist language in the market channel and get banned for it. They were adamant they had the right to say anything.
In the UK you're not allowed to say just anything. The best example is the recent cases where people have been jailed for encouraging others to blow up planes. The bad side is sometimes people are accused unjustly of being prejudiced.
I can see good in bad in both approaches, its important to be aware of cultural difference if you don't want a smack in the teeth.
I concure. I censor myself when in polite company. (and in eve) But at the same time, I will support your right to say whatever you want. As long as you understand there are consequences for your actions and you may incure consequences you didn't plan on. Like having your ass beat down by someone. Or being banned from a place. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________ |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:22:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake No, thats STUPID. "think may be" WTF?
If you are deeply offended by something someone says, then report it. If not, just walk away. You have no reason to be going around trying to clean up the language used in the galaxy.
Actually I do. So do you, but you probably don't care. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Garann
W1CA
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:24:00 -
[89]
Quote: I concure. I censor myself when in polite company. (and in eve) But at the same time, I will support your right to say whatever you want. As long as you understand there are consequences for your actions and you may incure consequences you didn't plan on. Like having your ass beat down by someone. Or being banned from a place.
And there we have it ladies and gentlemen...
The whole free spech thing was intended as a solution to the problem of governments, strong organizations, religions etc. could simply throw people that opposed them in jail and swallow the key. It wasn't invented to allow everyone to walk up and down the street calling eachother profanities from early morning to late evening.
So yeah, free speech, you can say whatever you want to say, as long as you're prepared to face the consequenses of your behaviour.
In regard to the original poster, well, you might be more offended by it than I am, and honestly I am more or less sick of political correctness, and I'm sick of people trying to "outlaw" the use of terms because the term offend some minority, espcially when the word is used in a context that has absolutely NOTHING to do with that minority. Unless you honestly think that the person calling you a retard thinks you have a malfunction / abnormality in your head. Or that the offender is trying to offend this minority on purpose?
You know what, I say get over it, either get down on his level and smack back, or take the high road and ignore the ********, don't waste your time and energy being offenden on behalf of a minority which has nothing AT ALL to do with the situation.
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Humble Voh
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Posted - 2006.08.17 00:27:00 -
[90]
I think part of the clash here is that, to me anyway, retarded is an insult used for people who have learning disabilities. So I don't like people to use it, coz it reminds me of the scum who do insult real people who have disabilities.
Now in America, the word might not have that power. And in America, free speech might be a big deal you go all funny about.
But this game is not an American game. And the world is not America.
And this, btw, is not the real world. In the real world people don't insult other people as much as the 'net, because they'd get a punch in the neck. Maybe different rules ought to apply here?
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