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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.15 23:57:00 -
[1]
I just came up with what I think is a very clever idea for combatting suicide gankers. Personally, I think it's a good idea because it does so by not drastically changing the mechanics of the game and adding a clever little twist/tactic.
Here's the idea: create a mod that allows you to fake out a cargo scanner. Specifically, create one that allows you to pretend you have cargo that you don't really have.
Then you can have people going through Jita and the like, faking that they have 1 billion in zydrine in their cargo hold. Suicide ganker takes them out, oops, there was nothing. Then you could have teams, where one guy is the bait and the other one swoops in and makes off with whatever can the popped suicide ganker leaves behind.
I think it's a good idea because it creates a whole element of playing decoy and stuff like that, which could be applicable in other aspects of the game as well.
Alternatively you can have a mod that hides the contents of your cargo hold, but that idea is somewhat boring because it just makes cargo scanners pointless.
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korrey
Level Five
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Posted - 2006.08.16 00:32:00 -
[2]
Eh Im in favor of this to see there faces but make it an activeated module lol. Or else youd get ganked and lose your ship when you didnt want to.
If you cant beat something, arrange to have it beaten. -Corinth Associates |
Boonaki
Caldari Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.08.16 08:39:00 -
[3]
Just get a 1 run tech 2 BPC, can't tell if it's a BPO or not.
Fear the Ibis of doom! |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2006.08.16 12:47:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 16/08/2006 12:50:07
Originally by: Boonaki Just get a 1 run tech 2 BPC, can't tell if it's a BPO or not.
Hmm. time to make some Sigils
To the OP: Idea is good, but I would prefer one that could hide cargo or part of it. Meaning, anyone scaning you, would have a chance on scanning each item, or item group. Big problem tho, if you got like 2k bm's in your hold, that is gonna introduce serious lag to calculate if you scanned each BM or not.
But yeah, an anti-scan module would be nice. Also meaning the gangker would have to evaluate if your hiding good cargo or just trying to bluff them.
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mucklavee
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:23:00 -
[5]
better yet just make cargo scanning a act of aggression, so if you get scanned they go pop
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CaptainSeafort
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:35:00 -
[6]
or make a concord nos-ship spawn in? fitted with omni-defenders to pwn any range-launched cruise missiles tec =P
personally, i think this problem is insoluble without possibly thousands of people grumbling, whatever the outcome.
"Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE! |
DeODokktor
Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2006.08.17 15:19:00 -
[7]
the fix is so simple that you need not ask for new mods and stuff..
1) suicided that ship = no insurance for you...
2) Security standing loss should not be fixed. SO when you attack in a high sec system the penalty is a lot larger than say a .1
The removal of insurance would mean that guys hauling 30m worth of kit wouldnt get shot, it would force the buffer zone up to about 120m+
If there was going to be something added... it would be my idea of sentrys to have sensor dampners fitted.. Nothing huge but enough to make it so a lot of guys wouldnt get more than 1 wave off (vary the strength by the security status of the system, where it's variable in any system that's higher than .4
There's a suggestions forum for this stuff tho and it's not here (If ur suggestion isnt combat related dont expect much love)
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Alberto Tlatoa
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Posted - 2006.08.17 15:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: DeODokktor the fix is so simple that you need not ask for new mods and stuff..
1) suicided that ship = no insurance for you...
Yeah, there should not be any insurance payout when CONCROD is involved
Originally by: DeODokktor
2) Security standing loss should not be fixed. SO when you attack in a high sec system the penalty is a lot larger than say a .1
The removal of insurance would mean that guys hauling 30m worth of kit wouldnt get shot, it would force the buffer zone up to about 120m+
I think security loss is fine as it is. When I used to gank haulers in a secure space we did not gank anybody with less than 300 mil exactly because of the security standing loss. It was deterrent enough for us not take on low value targets.
Originally by: DeODokktor
If there was going to be something added... it would be my idea of sentrys to have sensor dampners fitted.. Nothing huge but enough to make it so a lot of guys wouldnt get more than 1 wave off (vary the strength by the security status of the system, where it's variable in any system that's higher than .4
There's a suggestions forum for this stuff tho and it's not here (If ur suggestion isnt combat related dont expect much love)
Not sure about that, we always only put 2 missiles in launchers of our caracals knowing that CONCORD is going to get us before we get a chance to fire more.
Seriously, from my perspective haulers ganking is not easy. Anybody with instas was out of limits to us. Also ships approaching the gate fast was hard. Thats because you have often multiple indys approaching the gate at the same time. You have to scan each one of them. Many have lots of items in it, sometimes 4 or 5 screens of stuff. You need to determine quick if there is anything valuable buried among these items fast.
Seriously, did anybody got ganked when they made minimal efforts not to ? Like basic tank on your ship and moving on instas ? Also putting lots of junk in your cargo may sometimes slow down your attackers.
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Das Yad
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.08.17 18:26:00 -
[9]
Tbh, it's probably been mentioned but afaik i dont think cargo scanners can scan inside GSC's , Small Secures Etc. its game mechanics they take a risk and sometimes the booty blows up sometimes you get the goods. its all fair i dont think ccp intended for all of empire space to be "safe". just means that people would be less likley to attack you in 0.5>
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Calio
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.18 15:14:00 -
[10]
Having once gotten suicided long ago, in my younger and more naive days, while hauling 80 mil of zyd, I'm no fan of suicide pirates. But, it amazes me that the various forums are full of hair-pulling and teeth-gnashing about this practice.
Yes, it's low.
Yes, it can be a borderline exploit, when the suiciders are constantly making new alts to avoid the security hit.
But players can play the angles, just the same as the suiciders do. What's more, it's very easy to do so. Probably easier for you than for them.
Originally by: Alberto Tlatoa Also ships approaching the gate fast was hard. Thats because you have often multiple indys approaching the gate at the same time. You have to scan each one of them. Many have lots of items in it, sometimes 4 or 5 screens of stuff. You need to determine quick if there is anything valuable buried among these items fast.
Seriously, did anybody got ganked when they made minimal efforts not to ? Like basic tank on your ship and moving on instas ? Also putting lots of junk in your cargo may sometimes slow down your attackers.
Alberto here has given you all the hints you need, but for those who haven't figured it out, I'll spell it out:
1) by a small regular container.
2) undock and travel away from any station.
3) as you go make bookmarks as fast as you can/want.
4) When you get to 100, put them in your can
5) ALWAYS keep the BM can in your hold.
Anyone trying to scan you will take at least 1 min (if not longer) to load the BM's in their scan. With an AB running and nanos in your low slots you'll be long gone before they even know what's in your hold.
"Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov) |
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Lystera Falcon
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Posted - 2006.08.18 17:14:00 -
[11]
Yep, that is key, fill your hold with 300-400 bookmarks and you can approach the gate from 15km at 150m/s and jump through before they even know what you've got in your hold.
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Dollar Menu
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Posted - 2006.08.19 00:08:00 -
[12]
Yep, but make certain you keep the BMs in the container or you'll suffer the same problem every time you look into your cargo hold.
The more BMs you stuff into the container, (small standard can is all you need), the longer it will take for somone to read the items in your cargo. Not only will this protect you from scanning, it might confuse the person scanning enough that he will not scan anyone else until the BM update stops..
Another way is to split up all stacks into single items but not more than 1000 of the same item. Not as good of an effect as BMs but not as boarderline exploit either. (doing anything to cause lag might be looked at as an exploit)
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2006.08.19 07:43:00 -
[13]
BM's in a can? That is far more of an exploit than suicide can ever been considered. Then you are taking advantage of a slow point in game mechanics to purposely gain an advantage over an oppponent. That would be considered an exploit I believe. I've seen vaga pilots do the same thing. If you pop one of them, the idea is to lag up their can so you can't get the loot before the rest of their HAC gang gets there to kill you. Never pettioned it but I'm sure a GM wouldn't like it.
Suicide ganking is a part of the game: DEAL WITH IT. As the devs have stated the only time you are totally safe is when you are docked. Don't go accusing those who use suicide tactics effectively of exploiting. Perhaps I'll accuse you of explointing because you made enough ISK to buy valuable cargo. Fly a blockade runner, they are immune to suicide ganks. (Outside of multiple suicide BS, and if you have something so valuable that you think that may happen, roll a Freighter)
In conclusion, suicide ganks are within game mechanics and no changes need to be made. Stop whinning.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. |
voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.19 10:42:00 -
[14]
/signed
cool idea
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Chibisuke
Gallente Children of Avalon
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Posted - 2006.08.19 11:18:00 -
[15]
well I don't think GMs/CCP can easily forbid the transportation of BMs. so if you transport a can full of BMs, you are transporting a can of BMs....
and if you are transporting a can of BMs alongside some T2 BPOs/Mass of high grade minerals/watever, you are still transporting a can of BMs... so where is the difference? I don't see any.
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DeODokktor
Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2006.08.19 12:17:00 -
[16]
I think the BM thing is used more to just make it so they cant easily see what you have (takes more effort to dig around for the good stuff)
The best thing to do is set an escrow for yourself with all of ur bookmarks in it and when th eescrow expires they'll all be in plastic wrap (imagine a can that's under 1m3)
Scans can see inside every ship, every can in ship (including plastic wrap).
They cant (however) see if something is a bpo or a bpc.
And a properly fitted battleship can get 4-5 waves off (hence my target jam suggestion)
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Lystera Falcon
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Posted - 2006.08.19 14:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix BM's in a can? That is far more of an exploit than suicide can ever been considered. Then you are taking advantage of a slow point in game mechanics to purposely gain an advantage over an oppponent. That would be considered an exploit I believe. I've seen vaga pilots do the same thing. If you pop one of them, the idea is to lag up their can so you can't get the loot before the rest of their HAC gang gets there to kill you. Never pettioned it but I'm sure a GM wouldn't like it.
Suicide ganking is a part of the game: DEAL WITH IT. As the devs have stated the only time you are totally safe is when you are docked. Don't go accusing those who use suicide tactics effectively of exploiting. Perhaps I'll accuse you of explointing because you made enough ISK to buy valuable cargo. Fly a blockade runner, they are immune to suicide ganks. (Outside of multiple suicide BS, and if you have something so valuable that you think that may happen, roll a Freighter)
In conclusion, suicide ganks are within game mechanics and no changes need to be made. Stop whinning.
No, I wouldn't consider this an exploit, because CCP has yet to do anything about corporations and alliances filling their posses to the brim with shuttles that have thousands of bookmarks in them.
This is a tactic designed to stop someone's advantage over you of scanning your cargo hold without getting flagged by concord immediately - cargo scanning should be considered a hostile offense. I'm willing to do whatever I've got to do to make it HARDER for them to gank me, and anyone who gets in the way of that can suck it.
Next thing I'm going to hear is how pirates think industrials shouldn't be able to fit a cloaking device.
Maybe you're one of the guys I've blown through the Esa pipe in my blockade runner with, laughing hysterically as your tackler in an assault frigate struggles to keep up and eventually gives up.
Keep crying, it's not going to get easier for you.
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2006.08.20 07:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lystera Falcon
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix BM's in a can? That is far more of an exploit than suicide can ever been considered. Then you are taking advantage of a slow point in game mechanics to purposely gain an advantage over an oppponent. That would be considered an exploit I believe. I've seen vaga pilots do the same thing. If you pop one of them, the idea is to lag up their can so you can't get the loot before the rest of their HAC gang gets there to kill you. Never pettioned it but I'm sure a GM wouldn't like it.
Suicide ganking is a part of the game: DEAL WITH IT. As the devs have stated the only time you are totally safe is when you are docked. Don't go accusing those who use suicide tactics effectively of exploiting. Perhaps I'll accuse you of explointing because you made enough ISK to buy valuable cargo. Fly a blockade runner, they are immune to suicide ganks. (Outside of multiple suicide BS, and if you have something so valuable that you think that may happen, roll a Freighter)
In conclusion, suicide ganks are within game mechanics and no changes need to be made. Stop whinning.
No, I wouldn't consider this an exploit, because CCP has yet to do anything about corporations and alliances filling their posses to the brim with shuttles that have thousands of bookmarks in them.
This is a tactic designed to stop someone's advantage over you of scanning your cargo hold without getting flagged by concord immediately - cargo scanning should be considered a hostile offense. I'm willing to do whatever I've got to do to make it HARDER for them to gank me, and anyone who gets in the way of that can suck it.
Next thing I'm going to hear is how pirates think industrials shouldn't be able to fit a cloaking device.
Maybe you're one of the guys I've blown through the Esa pipe in my blockade runner with, laughing hysterically as your tackler in an assault frigate struggles to keep up and eventually gives up.
Keep crying, it's not going to get easier for you.
Cargo scanning isn't a hostile offense because it does absolutly nothing to harm your ship in any way. So how can it be hostile? Also I'm not a pirate. Most of the time I'm in the position you're in and want to avoid suicide gankers. Thats why I fly the Impel and Providence. Nobody sane would suggest stopping cloak fitting on indies. Crying? I'm not crying, its the OP who's whinning. I simply think that the industrial pilots need to stop whinning about something that is SUPPOSED to be able to happen.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too. |
Chibisuke
Gallente Children of Avalon
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Posted - 2006.08.20 09:55:00 -
[19]
I did a small test on BMs in cargo... well the cargo scanner only displays there are "bookmarks" but does not load any names or anything. So this in rather useless because you get the list instantly anyway.
no practical use, no need to discus if its an exploit or not.
but well.... the best way to avoid sucide gankers is...use a freigther. 1.) You need loads of time to kill a freigther 2.) Freigthers don't drop anything if killed.
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