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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1305
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Posted - 2014.10.16 14:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been reading the changes being implemented to balance bombers, and there is a section saying that cloaked ships will now decloak each other.
Does this not completely change the entire way combat and travel occurs in wormhole space other than strictly solo?
It seems it will not be possible to fleet warp cloaked fleets after this, as we will decloak each other in warp and cannot be avoided. Can the CSM confirm that such a severe change, is actually intended for wormhole space, or have we one again been completely disregarded and are just collateral damage and tough luck?
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
669
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
1. Old news 2. This is just a return to how things were until 2012 (you are really as young as your forum character's age, I guess) 3. The change is made to nerf ISboxer fleets in Nullsec, so yes, we are kind of collateral damage 4. But there are also upsides, like ability to intentionally decloak another cloaked ship with your own cloaked ship; it's not strictly a nerf, just different gameplay . |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1305
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:1. Old news 2. This is just a return to how things were until 2012 (you are really as young as your forum character's age, I guess) 3. The change is made to nerf ISboxer fleets in Nullsec, so yes, we are kind of collateral damage 4. But there are also upsides, like ability to intentionally decloak another cloaked ship with your own cloaked ship; it's not strictly a nerf, just different gameplay
I am fully aware of how it was previously, and whole new tactics apply now that were not viable then. the question is Has Fozzie realised that The entire cloaking meta in wormholes is now changed?
If it is intentional, and he has a plan (even if We might not agree) that is something we can live with.
If we are getting serious and fundamental changes occurring, without any thought and regard to how we need to adapt, then That is really not right.
Cloaking and cloaked travel Is the single significant defining feature of wormhole combat and travel. NOT something to be ignored.
I would hope that Fozzie has realised by now, that people get tired with having to react to the effects of other peoples rebalancing dropping on us? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
166
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think the current way is better than what we had and will have, but it's manageable. What bothers me however is the total ignorance about other uses of cloaks evident in this chapter:
Quote:The change that allowed cloaked ships to pass through each other without decloaking was made back in 2012 to make bombing easier. With the last few years of evidence to look at, it becomes clear that organizing bombing runs has become a bit too easy. This change will add some more complexity to organizing multiple cloaked ships, as well as returning the old gameplay of attempting to decloak other players with your own cloaked ship. We know that some players are going to be unhappy with the way this makes their gameplay more challenging, but bombing was very viable before the cloaking change and it will continue to be very viable after.
To him it's only about bombers. |
Zoltar Nosisk
Budget Burials Inc
3
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mate, u think fozzie gives 2 ***** about your wormholes? Wormhole popolation is maybe 2% of nullsec |
Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
772
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
... I see no actual issues in wormhole space with this.
This did not effect us much at all in 2012, and I don't see this reversion back as either good or bad.
Business as usual. Yaay!!!! |
RudinV
Hard Knocks Inc.
414
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
might miss smth, but what is "wormhole cloaking meta" u talking about? |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1305
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
RudinV wrote:might miss smth, but what is "wormhole cloaking meta" u talking about?
Hey, no skin of my nose, If you don't use cloaked ships or only travel on your own , well, not going to be an issue is it, But if a few travel together looking for content, well, just never going to see any when you warp across system visible on D scan are we?
But I guess if we all warp thirty seconds apart, and make sure all the faster ships go first, and at different distances to the arrival point, moving away to different (invisible) compass points, again and again, Seems easy enough, We should all have so much fun!
You do realise that we will now decloak each other IN WARP never mind on landing? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
669
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
It doesn't exist. The change was made in 2012 solely to buff bombing runs, and it is now reverted to nerf bombing runs. Wspace has no special connection to this issue. . |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1305
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:It doesn't exist. The change was made in 2012 solely to buff bombing runs, and it is now reverted to nerf bombing runs. Wspace has no special connection to this issue.
Just the effects. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
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350125GO
Transcendent Sedition Protean Concept
116
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
I haven't seen fleets of cloaky ships in WH's. Is it possible your doing it the wrong way? BTW see my sig for how I really feel about OP's concern. You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1305
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 15:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
350125GO wrote:I haven't seen fleets of cloaky ships in WH's. Is it possible your doing it the wrong way? BTW see my sig for how I really feel about OP's concern.
Well I would hope you would not see invisible ships, And I am not talking about adjusting, Yes of course it can be done. Would you like to read the post and try to understand the question?
[quote]Can the CSM confirm that such a severe change, is actually intended for wormhole space, or have we one again been completely disregarded and are just collateral damage and tough luck?/quote] There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
669
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 15:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
I fondly remember how I once watched a Heron spawn at a wormhole, align to a planet at high speed, drop probes and then cloak. I had no chance to tackle it right away, but I got into a position between the hole and the planet, then aligned cloaked to the planet and, being faster than the cloaked Heron, eventually caught up to him and decloaked him with my own cloaked ship. He even dropped a Sisters Probe Launcher. Just a Heron, but it was immense fun to kill him that way. He probably still believes that it was just incredibly bad luck to be decloaked 50 km off a wormhole. . |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1305
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Posted - 2014.10.16 15:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I fondly remember how I once watched a Heron spawn at a wormhole, align to a planet at high speed, drop probes and then cloak. I had no chance to tackle it right away, but I got into a position between the hole and the planet, then aligned cloaked to the planet and, being faster than the cloaked Heron, eventually caught up to him and decloaked him with my own cloaked ship. He even dropped a Sisters Probe Launcher. Just a Heron, but it was immense fun to kill him that way. He probably still believes that it was just incredibly bad luck to be decloaked 50 km off a wormhole.
That does sound interesting, But why, When CCP originally announced it that was a bug, and they would fix it, Were so many people happy?
Yes, I have heard Plenty of people criticise ISOboxing bombers, But none saying that fixing that bug was a mistake.
Maybe CCP should address and cure the problem Rather than giving the entire population such powerful medicine? Especially when It effects others more strongly than those you are trying to cure? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
RudinV
Hard Knocks Inc.
414
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
i think u should call doctor. |
Teleil Zoomers
Usque Ad Mortem TCC.
3
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Posted - 2014.10.16 16:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
i'm more concerned over the bombers rebalancing than the cloaking.
more hp, less agile, larger sig radius, 2 second longer bomb times.
they might as well just bump them up to destroyer class, lose the bombs and use them as a torpedoe platform only. |
Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
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Posted - 2014.10.16 17:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Not every game mechanic can be designed entirely around the concerns of W-space. |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
526
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Posted - 2014.10.16 17:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
No one even mentioned how this is gonna effect blops Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
719
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Posted - 2014.10.16 17:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:I have been reading the changes being implemented to balance bombers, and there is a section saying that cloaked ships will now decloak each other. Does this not completely change the entire way combat and travel occurs in wormhole space other than strictly solo? It seems it will not be possible to fleet warp cloaked fleets after this, as we will decloak each other in warp and cannot be avoided. Can the CSM confirm that such a severe change, is actually intended for wormhole space, or have we one again been completely disregarded and are just collateral damage and tough luck?
It hardly changes anything tbh. With the new spawning mechanics (hyperion tm), ships are scattered significantly after wormhole travel. So unlike during the last period of ships decloaking each other on TQ, this time you don't spawn into each other because you're 2k of the wormhole and everyone almost inside each other, but you land 4-8km (atleast that's where it puts my cruiser/frigsized ships) off the hole. Given the advanced QoL-Hack of everyone please click *keep distance bigger than current to wormhole*, it is quite impossible to decloak each other. As for warping a many ships to a cloaked www, this can backfire. But I'm confident people can come up with warp-in patterns to avoid that hazzle, since you can select a warp distance down to the meter.
Now, with capitals landing THIS far of the hole, this might also mess up some cloaked archons - though haven't seen that in a while. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
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chris elliot
Yoyodyne corporation Shadow Cartel
415
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Posted - 2014.10.16 18:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Just learn to ISBox like everyone else and these won't affect you at all. |
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Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
520
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 19:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
350125GO wrote:I haven't seen fleets of cloaky ships in WH's. Because they are cloaky, duh!
W-Space Realtor |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3848
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Posted - 2014.10.17 00:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
This is a GOOD change, not a bad one... Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
CivilWars
Rolled Out Black Legion.
209
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Posted - 2014.10.17 00:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
I dare say that other than when blopsing if you are taking a group of cloaky ships then you are likely doing it wrong. We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun.
Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:... |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
221
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Posted - 2014.10.17 02:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
This is an awesome change, can't wait for it.
Can't wait to get rid of the whole, solid matter can fly through other solid matter because you have a cloaking device. I mean, just think about it for a second.. if I put a cloaking device on my house, some other guy could plonk a house down on top of mine as long as it was cloaked. Heaven forbid what would happen if one of them uncloak. WTF were CCP thinking when they changed it in the first place? Maybe one of those: "oh this is how we intended it to function in the first place so we fixed it for you"?
I've been in w-space since it was introduced. I remember having to operate with teammates when warping cloaked ships on to blobs, getting warpins, warping at a certain range so each person wouldn't get decloaked etc, TACTICS. This brings some those tactics back to w-space that noobs wouldn't otherwise know about. I love that they're changing some of these things back. Dunno about the compass, that works in both spaces I guess so could be handy for killing ratting carriers. Can't wait for the drop probes > scan all sigs automatically module... :P
Anyway, I remember orbiting a wormhole one day at about 60km, decloaked a cheetah worth 400m and popped him. We were both cloaked. It's an awesome change coming back, it is by far favorable to the hunters in w-space and not the bears or nullblockers. |
Some RandomAlt Assene
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.10.17 06:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
i dont see why it should affect multiboxers, default warp to distance & warp to fleet member -- mega tactics |
Rockstede
30plus Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
11
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Posted - 2014.10.17 07:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Now:
Warp in. Drop cloak. Launch bomb. Warp out.
Post patch:
Warp in. Cloak drops. Launch bomb. Warp out.
Really not much of a change is it?
Space is big man, a great deal of the time the likelyhood of you decloaking someone with your ship or they you with theirs is so small as to be hardly noticeable.
On the times that they do decloak you, it becomes absolutely no different than a non-cloaked ship decloaking you except now you have the advantage of surprise, neither ship knew the other was there so now (with the exception of bombers and blops, no timer after decloaking) you either fight, or use the recalibration timer to GTFO. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1927
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 07:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
This is a bad change IMO. Decloaking during fleet warps or when camping a wormhole is bad for wormhole combat in general. Sure you can use old tactics to decloak someone while cloaked but this doesn't involve half as much skill or balls as getting to where you think someone is and intentionally dropping cloak. +1 |
Lister Vindaloo
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.10.17 21:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
We flew cloaked with this mechanic before, it'll take adjustment but it's not as bad as it seems. The bomber "balances" however really affect the way they are flown I doubt I'll be able to keep up with a frig gang anymore, I don't want HP I'm happy being made of paper but bombing is now going to be a lot harder especially considering any decent fleet will have smart bombs and/or instacanes, the instacanes work already as a counter btw. Not to mention I've gone from flying slightly clunky frigate to basically having a beer keg with a cloaking device, so I lose more dps replacing bcs with nanos just so I can survive long enough to apply my dps. Wow fozzie you must a spent at least 43 seconds coming up with this and all because you won't discuss ISBoxer even though it is clearly the issue..... |
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