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Kestral Anneto
Forsaken-Remnant
4
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Posted - 2014.10.18 06:24:05 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
I've decided I want to dive into manufacturing, I've always wantyed to do it, but it was so complicated before it spun my head a bit. Anyway, my main income will be from missionn running and eventually incursions, so its more or a side career really.
My problem is, no matter what I do, what third party tolls I use, what I set my skill levels at, I'm always making a loss. Mainly due to the cost of the materials, whats the best way to reduce the cost of these materials? is it to buy the ore and reprocess it? I don't like mining, its not my thing, i'd rather use my isk from missions to buy the stuff than mine.
Cheers |
Rumbaldi
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
6
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Posted - 2014.10.18 08:54:35 -
[2] - Quote
On most T1 items you will make a loss, You could try working out the numbers after research, there may be something out there that will pull you a profit but again T1 items are probably not where you are going to find it.
You didn't mention what tools you use, so...
This is a good tool for working out the profit (or loss) https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/
I would suggest going that extra step into T2 items, Start off with one or two things that you use personally, modules is a good place and learn the skills to do inventions and then make the T2 variants after checking out if they are popular and make a profit, you can even skim some off to use yourself.
Bear in mind however that some changes re coming to invention on 4th November
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Kestral Anneto
Forsaken-Remnant
4
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Posted - 2014.10.18 09:10:42 -
[3] - Quote
Rumbaldi wrote:On most T1 items you will make a loss, You could try working out the numbers after research, there may be something out there that will pull you a profit but again T1 items are probably not where you are going to find it. You didn't mention what tools you use, so... This is a good tool for working out the profit (or loss) https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/I would suggest going that extra step into T2 items, Start off with one or two things that you use personally, modules is a good place and learn the skills to do inventions and then make the T2 variants after checking out if they are popular and make a profit, you can even skim some off to use yourself. Bear in mind however that some changes re coming to invention on 4th November
how do i get into making T2 stuff? what skills? is invention a part of it? |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1500
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Posted - 2014.10.18 09:19:19 -
[4] - Quote
Warning: It's no less complex now. If anything, it's more complex.
Stick with T1 stuff until you're comfortable with the process, including the market research required to find profitable stuff (it still exists, just harder to find). Oh, and if you're buying and selling in Jita, stop doing so. There are other trade hubs.
Invention is the process of taking a T1 BPC and possibly getting a T2 BPC out, it requires a number of the science skills, which ones depend on what you're inventing. You need to do some reading, a lot of reading. Bear in mind that anything on manufacturing older than July is wrong now and that invention is changing a little. Process is the same, outcomes are not. Read the industry-related dev blogs, then you'll be able to tell if an article is talking about the old or new methods. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
69
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Posted - 2014.10.19 03:57:19 -
[5] - Quote
Rumbaldi wrote: I would suggest going that extra step into T2 items
I don't particularly see the point of t2 production. You're limited to the cumulative production time of the bpc you're using, which means your factory slot is going to sit idle while you're at work or sleeping. A 10-run 500k/hr T2 drone that finishes in two hours says your net throughput is about as good as a medium T1 crystal. With T1 production, you can achieve full factory utilization, definitely at a lower markup, but with far fewer clicks and ceremony, and definitely at a higher isk per hour of being logged in.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4277
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Posted - 2014.10.19 04:33:53 -
[6] - Quote
I currently have about 1b ISK of T1 modules on the market. I expect to earn about 15%-20%.
You can make ISK from them, but it certainly isn't an easy sell, which can be a problem in itself: the longer it takes for something to sell, the more chance there is for market fluctuations, and competition.
The good news is there is a lot more salable T1 items than people realize. I'm sure I could list a bunch and people wouldn't have thought of them as T1, because people think of T1 as the useless junk drops from NPC that they sell / reprocess [though meta 0 don't drop anymore].
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4065628#post4065628 |
Nylorn d'Ostey
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2014.10.19 22:10:56 -
[7] - Quote
I've recently had issues with this myself as I've started to wrap my head around manufacturing. I think market saturation is an issue, especially in common items like drones and ammo. I've been pretty careful to do my research before I start producing anything, but as such, I can't find anything Tech I that has a profit margin in my area. I've looked into the Tech 2 versions, but that is a good couple months of skills away for me.
What I don't really understand is how the market got so saturated to begin with. I've played around on some calculators that have been updated for the "new industry", and even with max skills, and good trading skills and standings on top of that, some items still don't break even. Who is making them if obviously there is no profit in it? It is just a big market surplus right now that is driving items under production cost? It's strange.
Thanks for the links and the advice though. I'll keep looking at it! |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1497
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Posted - 2014.10.20 06:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Consider that they could have been made pre-Crius.
For example, I still have a pile of Cyclones that I built before the battleship rebalance, expecting their prices to increase. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1500
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Posted - 2014.10.20 06:58:27 -
[9] - Quote
Consider that they could have been made pre-Crius.
For example, I still have a pile of Cyclones that I built before the battlecruiser rebalance, expecting their prices to increase. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
588
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Posted - 2014.10.20 14:07:09 -
[10] - Quote
When I do T1 production for sale, try to stick with T1 items that are actually used by themselves (i.e. meta/T2/faction equivalent readily available). Items with a high turnover rate (consumables, things often destroyed) are also good choices.
CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking.
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content.
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Rumbaldi
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
6
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Posted - 2014.10.20 15:18:27 -
[11] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:Rumbaldi wrote: I would suggest going that extra step into T2 items
I don't particularly see the point of t2 production. You're limited to the cumulative production time of the bpc you're using, which means your factory slot is going to sit idle while you're at work or sleeping. A 10-run 500k/hr T2 drone that finishes in two hours says your net throughput is about as good as a medium T1 crystal. With T1 production, you can achieve full factory utilization, definitely at a lower markup, but with far fewer clicks and ceremony, and definitely at a higher isk per hour of being logged in.
A valid point, but then I donGÇÖt really make T2 drones I tend to make T2 frigates and modules, yes there is some downtime but then all I need to do is make more each month than I spend if I am that then itGÇÖs all good, it depends how into the game you are.
In saying that I would rather make T1 items if I could find something profitable, whereas most T2 items are profitable and so it is more forgiving in terms of costs etc (i find), I think pretty much all modules are out of that equation as even a meta 1 items is better than a meta 0 item so your left with what? ships, rigs and ammo unless you go for very expensive capital BPOs and structures |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
810
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Posted - 2014.10.20 15:21:36 -
[12] - Quote
Minerals you mine yourself have no value.
Not today spaghetti.
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Rumbaldi
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
6
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Posted - 2014.10.20 15:34:34 -
[13] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:Rumbaldi wrote:On most T1 items you will make a loss, You could try working out the numbers after research, there may be something out there that will pull you a profit but again T1 items are probably not where you are going to find it. You didn't mention what tools you use, so... This is a good tool for working out the profit (or loss) https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/I would suggest going that extra step into T2 items, Start off with one or two things that you use personally, modules is a good place and learn the skills to do inventions and then make the T2 variants after checking out if they are popular and make a profit, you can even skim some off to use yourself. Bear in mind however that some changes re coming to invention on 4th November how do i get into making T2 stuff? what skills? is invention a part of it?
Invention is a part of it. A very short dirty intro is (and I am at work and cannot recall the tab names)
Look at T1 BPO such as a heat sink Look at invention info you will see the datacores needed to invent the T2 variant (as well as the skills which I suggest are at IV for all 3 skills needed). You can use decrypters but you dont need to (and wouldnt use them on a heat sink anyway) You can use a meta variant to increase the chance of a succesfull invention (But they are taking that option away I think at the next patch) You set it to invent, it will take some time (I know gyrostabs are just over 3 hours for example) as you set up the invention in the new indy window you will see the percentage chance (higher the better of course)
In 3 hours come back and deliver jobs, if you had 10 invention jobs up you will hopefully get some T2 BPCs back I think the default ME is 2 and the default TE is 4 (but again they are changing these things soon)
then the T2 item will outline what materials you need to make it.
I would say look at the info on a 2 BPC on contract and you will see what materials are needed to make it.
check out http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/lighting-the-invention-bulb/ for the upcoming invention changes.
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SJ Astralana
Syncore
69
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:12:20 -
[14] - Quote
Rumbaldi wrote:SJ Astralana wrote:Rumbaldi wrote: I would suggest going that extra step into T2 items
I don't particularly see the point of t2 production. I would rather make T1 items if I could find something profitable
Successful production is a long-term proposition. I look at weekly and monthly snapshots to provide feedback, but I pay closer attention to six-month snapshots. Presently, my top-ten profit items consist of four battleships, four rigs, one fuel block, and one battlecruiser, 40bil in profits, representing 70% of my total profit. I'd be keen for a T2 producer to step up and convincingly describe this level of success, even in rather vague terms.
I closely guard the successes and demographics of EPM users, but given my exposure to a wide variety of production models, "I don't particularly see the point of t2 production" holds.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4277
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Posted - 2014.10.22 06:25:56 -
[15] - Quote
Since posting above, I've pretty much sold all my T1 I had on the market. I sold it close to my initial target price, earning ~20% profit.
The market this time around was "odd", in that there was obviously an unspoken gentleman's agreement: if you undercut me, I'll undercut you, but if you let me sell my stuff, I'll let you sell yours.
Next batch the market will probably be different again; "... box of chocolates ... " syndrome.
That's probably why I keep doing industry. It never gets boring for me. |
Firestorm Delta
Aphotic Machina
32
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Posted - 2014.10.23 18:45:44 -
[16] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Minerals you mine yourself have no value.
Probably the biggest lie miners like to use. If you can spend your time doing something else that generates more money then do that instead of mining. Opportunity cost is a thing and doubly so if you can do something like Incursions.
I'd give more advice on industry but everyone else pretty much nailed it. |
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