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Efraya
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
266
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Posted - 2014.10.19 10:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks,
Fairly recently we're had the opportunity to bribe concord with tags and isk to look the other way with regards to security status.
Surely we should be able to bribe the empires to get faction standing back to zero? Having it go above zero would be very overpowered. But bribing them into neutrality would be sufficient.
Thanks,
Ef.
WSpace; Dead space. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
45
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Posted - 2014.10.19 17:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
I say no to any new idea that allows players to "buy" standings whether you call it bribes or whatever.
My personal opinion is that they should remove ALL forms of pay for standings and that includes any and all of the current methods used. Negative standings is one of the prices to pay for certain game play styles and it should not be easy to repair that negative standing. If you want back into high sec without the hassles of low standings then you should have to work to repair them. After all everyone always says EVE is a game of choices and consequences why should it be easy(even if it is expensive) to overcome the negative sides of this game choice. |
Efraya
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
267
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Posted - 2014.10.19 18:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:I say no to any new idea that allows players to "buy" standings whether you call it bribes or whatever.
My personal opinion is that they should remove ALL forms of pay for standings and that includes any and all of the current methods used. Negative standings is one of the prices to pay for certain game play styles and it should not be easy to repair that negative standing. If you want back into high sec without the hassles of low standings then you should have to work to repair them. After all everyone always says EVE is a game of choices and consequences why should it be easy(even if it is expensive) to overcome the negative sides of this game choice.
Thanks for your comments, I would certainly agree that eve should be a game of consequences, but I feel that it would be appropriate to have some sort of mechanism for faction standing resetting. A costly one in my opinion.
WSpace; Dead space. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
186
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Posted - 2014.10.19 19:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
The problem with 'costly' is its always relative. They said the same about tags4sec and then went and balanced it against the income of people still in the starter systems.
Not that I disagree particularly, standings are a mechanic which are way too biased towards the people who need them least and a way for Indy/PVP types to 'invest' in standings for refining, clones or whatever would probably see a lot of use. Travelling at the speed of love. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
513
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Posted - 2014.10.20 03:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Most faction corps have stations in the other empires. Spam them in space you aren't shoot on site with to not get shoot on site standing.
Then you can bribe them at the data centres they run buying tags.
Depending on faction you made mad at you, SOE is also an option. I had gallente really not like me once. SOE missions (unless changed) give a somewhat decent splash faction boost to gallente and iirc just a bit to minmatar. I hit SOE agents not in gallente space until I was cleared for their space.
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Brigadine Ferathine
Dream Warriors
19
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Posted - 2014.10.20 04:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
My issue is that many missions lower standings. Doing Minnmitar missions lowers your Galentee standings sometimes to the point where you cant enter their space.
Just another example of PvE risk not being worth the reward.
Getting banned from entire areas of the game so I can make 300k isk from an empire?
CCP you listening? |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
28
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Posted - 2014.10.20 06:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:My issue is that many missions lower standings. Doing Minnmitar missions lowers your Galentee standings sometimes to the point where you cant enter their space.
Just another example of PvE risk not being worth the reward.
Getting banned from entire areas of the game so I can make 300k isk from an empire?
CCP you listening?
You know you can say no to missions (once per 4 h), so don-¦t do the missions which lower you standing or fly for both sides missions.
-1 |
Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
102
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Posted - 2014.10.20 08:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
+1
I stopped missioning ages ago and getting into a mission ship brings back memories of endless boredom in the quest for isk.
When I started missioning I did not know about faction standings losses and while mines not negative enough to be locked out of space , if it was it would limit a lot of other activities (PVP ect). |
Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1162
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Posted - 2014.10.20 09:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm in agreement that repairing terrible standings to a workable point is an overly difficult and time consuming tax, for little value. To that end, exchanging tags to repair it up to NO HIGHER THAN 0, or even -1, or allow us to run missions for that faction with increased standing gain, but no isk/lp payout, up to 0, would be of great benefit.
Of course allowing players to buy their way up above 0 standing would be a bad thing, but I don't see the harm in allowing players to bribe it back up to a beginner level, even if the price is fairly steep.
+1 |
Efraya
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
267
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:+1 When I started missioning I did not know about faction standings losses and while mines not negative enough to be locked out of space , if it was it would limit a lot of other activities (PVP ect).
This is one of the cruxes of the issue. I would like to add that I don't have a negative enough standing to warrant any sort of worry but the key thing here is knowledge.
Now that we know to decline, we decline.
This sort of leads to whole sections of content being automatically being declined.
Doing something similar to tags for sec, thereby bringing another reason to rat in belts in low. More targets, more "Content" or a straight isk charge at concord.
WSpace; Dead space. |
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1163
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Efraya wrote:Andrew Indy wrote:+1 When I started missioning I did not know about faction standings losses and while mines not negative enough to be locked out of space , if it was it would limit a lot of other activities (PVP ect). This is one of the cruxes of the issue. I would like to add that I don't have a negative enough standing to warrant any sort of worry but the key thing here is knowledge. Now that we know to decline, we decline. This sort of leads to whole sections of content being automatically being declined. Doing something similar to tags for sec, thereby bringing another reason to rat in belts in low. More targets, more "Content" or a straight isk charge at concord.
This is really something so huge that I don't quite understand why CCP doesn't address in some way. Considering how commonplace it is for missioners to reject all empire faction missions, there must be a pretty high incidence of that content simply being skipped, and doing nothing else than to create an obstacle for mission runners. Perhaps the incidence of anti-empire faction missions needs to be cranked up in highsec, and removed from lowsec, to incentivize mission running in null. Perhaps a less obtrusive option like paying to repair your standing up to a certain point is better. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
188
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Posted - 2014.10.20 12:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Of course allowing players to buy their way up above 0 standing would be a bad thing I know this is accepted wisdom but I have to disagree, particularly now with the highsec anchoring requirement removed.
Forcing Trade Alts/Miners/Frigate pilots into training for ships just to grind L4s is a bad thing, particularly if they have to do it everytime they move station.
If it was properly implemented in a way that at least potentially generated content - belt tags isn't terrible but perhaps sharing them out amongst High/Low/Null/WH Sites? - it strikes me as long as someones out their risking their necks, allowing people to cough up a couple of bill for Jumpclone/Refining/Market standings wouldn't be the end of the world. Travelling at the speed of love. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
48
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Posted - 2014.10.21 02:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:it strikes me as long as someones out their risking their necks, allowing people to cough up a couple of bill for Jumpclone/Refining/Market standings wouldn't be the end of the world.
Ah so now you are saying that only those players that have a few bil laying around they have no use for should be able to take advantage of this? Yet another reason why this is a bad idea, only those with massive amounts of ISK can use it.
Others have brought up the new player that because of a lack of understanding of the game has allowed their standings to get to bad for one or more of the empires. As one who spends most of my game time with new players I can see the value in a one time only option to use a pay for standings to correct this common new player error.
I know there is a mechanic in the game that allows for those with negative standing to "buy" it back up, but since we are talking about changing that mechanic then we need to look at how this affects players all across the entire spectrum and not just those with negative standings. If we are going to change this and allow for you folks with negative standing to "buy" your way back to 0 then I expect to be able to "buy" my way to the higher plus side standings that my play style requires.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
138
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Posted - 2014.10.21 02:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Already exists in limited form. Check out the data center agents. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
19
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Posted - 2014.10.21 05:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:My issue is that many missions lower standings. Doing Minnmitar missions lowers your Galentee standings sometimes to the point where you cant enter their space.
Just another example of PvE risk not being worth the reward.
Getting banned from entire areas of the game so I can make 300k isk from an empire?
CCP you listening? You know you can say no to missions (once per 4 h), so don-¦t do the missions which lower you standing or fly for both sides missions. -1 That doesn't make making isk doing missions more viable or make it easier to avoid standings lowing missions. |
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
262
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Posted - 2014.10.21 05:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
you silly! <3 A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1619
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Posted - 2014.10.21 06:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Remove tags from the LP store. This will result in all those faction modules that currently needing tags seeing more use and getting blown up. Replace use of those tags to bring you back up to -1.5 or so faction standing.
This gets you past the 'shoot on site' level. But not to the 'can instantly run lvl 4's as long as corp standing is good enough' level Making for some lasting impact without crippling.
And should keep a market for the tags intact. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
553
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Posted - 2014.10.21 07:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm just gonna leave this here........
Link |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
189
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Posted - 2014.10.21 07:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Ix Method wrote:it strikes me as long as someones out their risking their necks, allowing people to cough up a couple of bill for Jumpclone/Refining/Market standings wouldn't be the end of the world. Ah so now you are saying that only those players that have a few bil laying around they have no use for should be able to take advantage of this? Yet another reason why this is a bad idea, only those with massive amounts of ISK can use it. Others have brought up the new player that because of a lack of understanding of the game has allowed their standings to get to bad for one or more of the empires. As one who spends most of my game time with new players I can see the value in a one time only option to use a pay for standings to correct this common new player error. I know there is a mechanic in the game that allows for those with negative standing to "buy" it back up, but since we are talking about changing that mechanic then we need to look at how this affects players all across the entire spectrum and not just those with negative standings. If we are going to change this and allow for you folks with negative standing to "buy" your way back to 0 then I expect to be able to "buy" my way to the higher plus side standings that my play style requires. Well that's kinda the point isn't it. If you were to do something like this it would need to be priced high enough that, in general, players would only be able to do it for few enough corps as not to make standings completely redundant and that tags/whatever are used would be valuable enough to farm.
New players aren't particularly the focus for any system like this I'd have thought. To get down to such horrible levels is going to require decent amounts of L4s - if that is considered a problem the way to flag this for them would be via mission text/NPE, not an easily affordable instafix. Travelling at the speed of love. |
Efraya
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
267
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Posted - 2014.10.21 10:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:I'm just gonna leave this here........ Link
Great minds think alike. I'm sorry that you didn't get more traction on your thread. I wasn't aware that it was already suggested.
WSpace; Dead space. |
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
557
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Posted - 2014.10.21 11:26:43 -
[21] - Quote
I'll cross post from my thread then........
Spugg Galdon wrote: We currently have Pirate Cone Soldier spawns in low sec belts that drop Tags that you can trade with concord in order to improve your security status from a negative value back to zero.
I propose a similar system of Navy Clone Soldiers. These would spawn in their respectively controlled FW space (i.e a Caldari controlled FW area would spawn Caldari Navy Clone Soldiers).
These rats would drop [Empire] Navy Clone Soldier Tags which can be traded for empire faction standing.
You can only trade them for faction standings "Repair". So the max standings you could achieve would be 0.0. So you can raise your standings from -10.0 to 0.0 with the tags like you can your sec status.
You would trade tags to the opposite faction.
So..... You would trade Amarr Tags to the Minmatar. You would trade Caldari Tags to the Gallente. You would trade Gallente Tags to the Caldari. You would trade Minmatar Tags to the Amarr.
This would create a system of being able to repair a ruined empire faction standing by farming tags
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
61
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Posted - 2014.10.21 12:18:13 -
[22] - Quote
I donGÇÖt see any problem with a system that allows you to (with some skills+ isk) get you back to a point were you can run the lowest L1 mission for whatever faction. I am all for Risk vs reward but having your mission running from when you were a noob years ago before you even had a clue and not having a reasonable way to grind back the standing is not good. (Remember you can grind your normal security status up anywhere in eve at any time in any ship.) |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland
850
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Posted - 2014.10.21 14:26:56 -
[23] - Quote
Just say "No." to pay-2-win.
"Remember remember the 4th of November!"
Phoebe. Coming soon to Eve Online.
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
61
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Posted - 2014.10.21 16:56:46 -
[24] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Just say "No." to pay-2-win.
Well we should remove anything above meta 1 items form the game then. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
20
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Posted - 2014.10.21 19:06:51 -
[25] - Quote
Its not pay to win. I would be ok if it just got you back to zero so you can play the content you are PAYING for without being ganked by CCP. |
Efraya
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
268
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Posted - 2014.10.22 08:43:18 -
[26] - Quote
Seeing as the proposal isn't to go above 0. It's pay to get back to where you were as a little nooblet...
[b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center]
[center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
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elitatwo
Congregatio
376
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Posted - 2014.10.22 09:20:24 -
[27] - Quote
Efraya wrote:Seeing as the proposal isn't to go above 0. It's pay to get back to where you were as a little nooblet...
I'll just leave the name of some rare books in here you might find interesting,
- Connections - Social - Diplomacy - Fast Talk (only interesting for misunderstandings in lowsec) - Mining connections - Distribution Connections - Security Connections - Criminal Connections
If you want to know what those books have to do with anything, I suggest you read them.
To be honest, I didn't read them all so the Federation Navy might not be very excited to see me in Gallente space but the Mordus Legion, the Caldari State and the Empress love me very much
signature
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Efraya
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
268
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Posted - 2014.10.22 09:36:49 -
[28] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Efraya wrote:Seeing as the proposal isn't to go above 0. It's pay to get back to where you were as a little nooblet... I'll just leave the name of some rare books in here you might find interesting, - Connections - Social - Diplomacy - Fast Talk (only interesting for misunderstandings in lowsec) - Mining connections - Distribution Connections - Security Connections - Criminal Connections If you want to know what those books have to do with anything, I suggest you read them. To be honest, I didn't read them all so the Federation Navy might not be very excited to see me in Gallente space but the Mordus Legion, the Caldari State and the Empress love me very much
I certainly agree that these skills should remain in their current state. They certainly help. The main issue in my mind is that there is content that is available (Faction missions) which many people decline because they tank your faction standing. Faction standing is very time consuming to work back up. Even with these skills maxed, it would still be nice to have a mechanism by which we could reset our standings to neutral.
[b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center]
[center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
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Skyler Hawk
The Scope Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.10.22 10:29:20 -
[29] - Quote
We already have epic mission arcs for some pirate factions that allow you to repair your standings all the way from -10.0 to having full agent access. It'd be good if CCP filled in the missing pirate faction epics and added lowsec ones for each of the main empire factions. |
Efraya
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
268
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Posted - 2014.10.22 10:53:50 -
[30] - Quote
Skyler Hawk wrote:We already have epic mission arcs for some pirate factions that allow you to repair your standings all the way from -10.0 to having full agent access. It'd be good if CCP filled in the missing pirate faction epics and added lowsec ones for each of the main empire factions.
This is new information to me! I'll look into it. afaik you can only run these epic arcs once every 6 months though?
[b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center]
[center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
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