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Aeon Plex
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.10.23 08:23:41 -
[1] - Quote
I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time.
Over the last month, the price of the Garmur has dropped drastically. This is awesome as I've been waiting to get one!
So last night I got a Garmur. Looked up fits and made one I liked. I took it out for a spin and the second I undocked from jita every single person wanted a duel. I was finally hailed to convo by a 9 year old character asking if I wanted to duel.
"Sure I said, but only to hull, as I just bought this and I haven't had a proper fight in it yet."
They agreed, more than once, and I was very very clear. But were busy, and kept putting off he fight, so I logged for the night.
Tonight I jump on, and a few minutes later I'm hailed again by this 9 yr old character. They ask if I would like to duel to hull, and I say sure!
We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Now you may say to yourself, "well, duh! Next time don't trust anyone in EVE!"
but honestly that's what he said, so don't be an idiot.
Let's be clear. Losing an 80 mil ISK ship isn't going to bankrupt me or ruin my experience in EVE.
I can see it ruining someone else's experience though, and that's what I want to express. This person had nothing to gain, not even a killmail from killing my Garmur. Doing this kind of thing, is what makes people leave this game. And maybe that's what someone like him wants.
If it had been a fair fight and he had kept going past hull, I wouldn't have minded all that much, but there was no honor, and no sportsmanship at all. In the end, I really just ended up feeling sorry for this guy as a human being.
I've met some really amazing people in EVE, people that have given me ships, people that have taught me things about the game, and people that have podded me, and then given me the money I would need to get my ship back 10x.
Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
I know myself, that I rarely see any new characters anymore. Everyone I see is almost 10 years old. And this is why. If a 9 year old character has nothing better to do, that troll new characters, and under the sad guise of 'don't trust anyone in EVE' then I'm really not sure that I can see a long term investment in this game is something I want to consider.
Aeon Plex > o7 Kayden Drake > morning!? Aeon Plex > night for meeeee Kayden Drake > want to do a practice duel now? Aeon Plex > yes!! Aeon Plex > im comin outside Kayden Drake > your gonna use the garmur right? Aeon Plex > yeah :-) Aeon Plex > I haven't been in a fuight with it yet Kayden Drake > ok one minute Aeon Plex > lemme know :-) Aeon Plex > do you play at work or somethin'? Kayden Drake > yeh Aeon Plex > hee hee Aeon Plex > ok lemme know. I'm gonna have cig Aeon Plex > be back on in about 5? Kayden Drake > take your time Aeon Plex > and we shall battle!! ;-) Kayden Drake > hey back yet? Aeon Plex > I'm back Aeon Plex > lemme know when u are ready!! :-) Kayden Drake > can e plz practice duel at a planet, its too busy outside 4-4 Aeon Plex > sure Kayden Drake > ok, planet 1 Aeon Plex > I'll meet u there! Kayden Drake > i fit out this stupid cruiser randomly Kayden Drake > can i test my longpopng on you? just to see how it works Aeon Plex > sure! Kayden Drake > come cloer first, your not in point range Kayden Drake > closer* Aeon Plex > what is the point range on that? Kayden Drake > ROfl, your still moving away Kayden Drake > thats the thing i'm not sure Kayden Drake > thats what i want to test Aeon Plex > ok I'll stay still :-) so u can check Kayden Drake > thx Aeon Plex > LoL Aeon Plex > um.. (he blinks off)
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
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Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
238
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Posted - 2014.10.23 08:28:47 -
[2] - Quote
Maybe test your fits / duel with corpmates rather than randoms in highsec?
This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
992
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 08:38:06 -
[3] - Quote
They do it because they can, they have no interest in a 'fair' fight or killmails, only to cause grievance to you & other targets. I don't like it either, but that's the reality of any multiplayer game that offers open PvP.
If you want a 'fair' duel, or just one to test out fits, stick with corpmates / alliancemembers & friends to test stuff like that out. Don't rely on total strangers to keep their word, that'll get you killed/scammed, just like in reality (but in EvE it's just pixels)
On new players, you rarely see them, because alot of new players suffer information overload, they're often found in CCP official channels like Help channel & the CCP faction channels. They'll rarely initialize chat in their early lives because they're still getting accustomed to the game. This is not only bad for them (they know little what's going on in Eve player-wise, making them easy targets for scams/ganks & duelkills) but also for us, because we're unable to help them in the period of their eve player life they nee"d our guidance the most.
I can confirm there's still new players joining (Dust linking actually saw alot of new eve players, because quite some players were genuinely interested in that space game connected to their shooter) Remember be nice to new players, they're your future friends, corpmates, targets. Drive them away, and you'll have less buddies to fly with or targets to shoot in the future.
Aurora Project expands the Arcology
The result of the YC116 Sleeper data research race: Tech 3 Destroyers!
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Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
242
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Posted - 2014.10.23 08:44:45 -
[4] - Quote
Thx for your tears |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
6
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Posted - 2014.10.23 08:51:42 -
[5] - Quote
Ka'Narlist wrote:Thx for your tears
Thanks for proving the point.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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Arronicus
Bitter Lemons Brothers of Tangra
1181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 08:54:40 -
[6] - Quote
What you're doing is like a pretty girl trying to make friends at a nightclub. Yes, you're going to be very quickly disappointed. That's what you get for looking for a fair duel with complete strangers, especially around trade hubs.
Eve isn't a bad place, nor are some of the low-lives really hurting the game all that much, you just need to learn to ignore and exclude them. It's like when you go to a rough part of town, you don't do whatever the homeless drug addict invites you to.
What is wrong with eve?
Players taking it too far, and dragging things into real life harassment. Stagnant nullsec that is the bi-product of a sovriegnty and travel system that favours 'the biggest blob possible' A variety of ships that are under-powered, to the point that they aren't worth using Devs/GMs that don't act in accordance with precedent, making decisions that don't follow what players have come to reasonably expect in eve, making it hard to know where some of the rules lie. (No, not reasonable treatment of others, I'm talking about things like bumping parts of ships extending from pos shields, without exploiting the server tick timer)
There are real issues in eve, that hurt the game, that I'm sure ccp are working on fixing as they can. Someone not holding your hand and keeping you away from those who would have a chuckle at popping your ship, is not one of them. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
454
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 08:59:13 -
[7] - Quote
That's a lame thing to do.
But you know the drill m8; Welcome to EVE
"play" with corpies, kill the rest. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3131
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 09:12:40 -
[8] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time.
Over the last month, the price of the Garmur has dropped drastically. This is awesome as I've been waiting to get one!
So last night I got a Garmur. Looked up fits and made one I liked. I took it out for a spin and the second I undocked from jita every single person wanted a duel. I was finally hailed to convo by a 9 year old character asking if I wanted to duel.
"Sure I said, but only to hull, as I just bought this and I haven't had a proper fight in it yet."
They agreed, more than once, and I was very very clear. But were busy, and kept putting off he fight, so I logged for the night.
Tonight I jump on, and a few minutes later I'm hailed again by this 9 yr old character. They ask if I would like to duel to hull, and I say sure!
We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Now you may say to yourself, "well, duh! Next time don't trust anyone in EVE!"
but honestly that's what he said, so don't be an idiot.
Let's be clear. Losing an 80 mil ISK ship isn't going to bankrupt me or ruin my experience in EVE.
I can see it ruining someone else's experience though, and that's what I want to express. This person had nothing to gain, not even a killmail from killing my Garmur. Doing this kind of thing, is what makes people leave this game. And maybe that's what someone like him wants.
If it had been a fair fight and he had kept going past hull, I wouldn't have minded all that much, but there was no honor, and no sportsmanship at all. In the end, I really just ended up feeling sorry for this guy as a human being.
I've met some really amazing people in EVE, people that have given me ships, people that have taught me things about the game, and people that have podded me, and then given me the money I would need to get my ship back 10x.
Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
I know myself, that I rarely see any new characters anymore. Everyone I see is almost 10 years old. And this is why. If a 9 year old character has nothing better to do, that troll new characters, and under the sad guise of 'don't trust anyone in EVE' then I'm really not sure that I can see a long term investment in this game is something I want to consider.
Aeon Plex > o7 Kayden Drake > morning!? Aeon Plex > night for meeeee Kayden Drake > want to do a practice duel now? Aeon Plex > yes!! Aeon Plex > im comin outside Kayden Drake > your gonna use the garmur right? Aeon Plex > yeah :-) Aeon Plex > I haven't been in a fuight with it yet Kayden Drake > ok one minute Aeon Plex > lemme know :-) Aeon Plex > do you play at work or somethin'? Kayden Drake > yeh Aeon Plex > hee hee Aeon Plex > ok lemme know. I'm gonna have cig Aeon Plex > be back on in about 5? Kayden Drake > take your time Aeon Plex > and we shall battle!! ;-) Kayden Drake > hey back yet? Aeon Plex > I'm back Aeon Plex > lemme know when u are ready!! :-) Kayden Drake > can e plz practice duel at a planet, its too busy outside 4-4 Aeon Plex > sure Kayden Drake > ok, planet 1 Aeon Plex > I'll meet u there! Kayden Drake > i fit out this stupid cruiser randomly Kayden Drake > can i test my longpopng on you? just to see how it works Aeon Plex > sure! Kayden Drake > come cloer first, your not in point range Kayden Drake > closer* Aeon Plex > what is the point range on that? Kayden Drake > ROfl, your still moving away Kayden Drake > thats the thing i'm not sure Kayden Drake > thats what i want to test Aeon Plex > ok I'll stay still :-) so u can check Kayden Drake > thx Aeon Plex > LoL Aeon Plex > um.. (he blinks off)
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
TL:DR: In EVE, each time you're nice to someone you're missing your reward for victimizing him.
Corolary: In EVE, the usual reward for being nice is to be victimized.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
462
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 09:16:17 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time
Welcome to Eve Online, we have this thing called "rules". If you can play within them, then you're doing it correctly. If you can't, you will most likely get repulsed away from the game. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
661
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 09:24:40 -
[10] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:What you're doing is like a pretty girl trying to make friends at a nightclub. Yes, you're going to be very quickly disappointed.
I get the argument, but it's flawed that it doesn't excuse visitors of a nightclub being pricks either.
I'm with the OP. Most people always take the 'it's part of the game' stance (especially the ones actively engaging in such things), but no one seems to care that this drives off a lot of people who would otherwise be happily playing along.
I've been here for 11 years but it still seems wrong that you get punished for being nice and rewarded for being a dickhead. I mean, it does attract people with sociopathic tendencies (not counting the actual nice ones coming to fanfest etc though ;) )
[center]If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...[/center]
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Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
6
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Posted - 2014.10.23 09:27:20 -
[11] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time
Welcome to Eve Online, we have this thing called "rules". If you can play within them, then you're doing it correctly. If you can't, you will most likely get repulsed away from the game.
Thats true for every game out there... whats your point?
I think what is meant is that actions like this are against any feeling of human dignity... its got nothing to do with playing a game or even PvP...
Thats why people get upset about it..... or at least thats how i see it.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3131
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Posted - 2014.10.23 09:32:38 -
[12] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Arronicus wrote:What you're doing is like a pretty girl trying to make friends at a nightclub. Yes, you're going to be very quickly disappointed. I get the argument, but it's flawed that it doesn't excuse visitors of a nightclub being pricks either. I'm with the OP. Most people always take the 'it's part of the game' stance (especially the ones actively engaging in such things), but no one seems to care that this drives off a lot of people who would otherwise be happily playing along. I've been here for 11 years but it still seems wrong that you get punished for being nice and rewarded for being a dickhead. I mean, it does attract people with sociopathic tendencies (not counting the actual nice ones coming to fanfest etc though ;) )
Well, it is not unexpected that out of 150k individuals playing this game, the 5% who actually meet each other at player gatherings are the more social, well behaved and nice of them...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2116
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 09:36:29 -
[13] - Quote
IB4 Log Snip.
And hey, OP....
That's life.
vOv
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Ssoraszh Tzarszh
Eschelon Directive Universal Consortium
64
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Posted - 2014.10.23 10:06:31 -
[14] - Quote
This is why no one pays ransoms anymore unless you are space famous, too many foxes makes for an empty hen house.
While it is true that you should not trust people you just met, the funny thing about this situation is that by acting in this way, dishonoring 1v1, dishonoring ransoms, and dishonoring agreements in these ways you described will inevitably lead to less and less people taking them up on it.
You just learned not to duel people i guess, so one less target for the masses. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10167
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 10:15:04 -
[15] - Quote
And here I thought that nobody was fool enough to fall for that trick anymore.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
575
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Posted - 2014.10.23 10:18:03 -
[16] - Quote
Ssoraszh Tzarszh wrote:This is why no one pays ransoms anymore unless you are space famous, too many foxes makes for an empty hen house.
While it is true that you should not trust people you just met, the funny thing about this situation is that by acting in this way, dishonoring 1v1, dishonoring ransoms, and dishonoring agreements in these ways you described will inevitably lead to less and less people taking them up on it.
You just learned not to duel people i guess, so one less target for the masses. Yup, most people learn not to duel after their first 'fair fight' which makes the entire concept as it is now seem pretty pointless for anything other than new player bashing as they rarely understand the rules for duels. Is that why there's a config button to automatically reject duel requests?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And here I thought that nobody was fool enough to fall for that trick anymore. There's always more new players to fall for it. |
David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.10.23 10:28:33 -
[17] - Quote
You accepted a 1vs1 from some random in Jita... that was only ever going to end well.
In all seriousness, this game is like any other out there; you have the good the bad. In a game like LOTRO (don't shoot me) the people who you could manage a polite conversation/trust with stuff vastly outweighed those who you couldn't (at least that was the case a few months ago), EvE on the other hand is much more balanced out, because the rules are much more flexible in terms of thing's that would be considered completely un-acceptable in other games... scamming comes to mind here.
That's the thing to bare in mind; when I downloaded EvE to try out early this year, I knew full well what kind of reputation this game had, and I prepared accordingly. Duelling a person you've only just met, in the system where scams are being thrown at a million miles an hour, is (and I hate to be critical)... a bit naive.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
284
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Posted - 2014.10.23 10:33:38 -
[18] - Quote
I had the same sort of thing happen. The worst part was the idiot I was dueling with was my own alt and I forgot to take my daily anti-psychotic pills. You're never alone with a scitzophrenic that is dual boxing... |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
181
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Posted - 2014.10.23 10:33:58 -
[19] - Quote
The problem with EVE is that people seem to think hisec somehow successfully and perfectly represents the game culture. Seriously, hisec population consists mostly of solo players with little to no interaction with anyone, incompetent old players, new players, alts, bots and then the scum whose only aim in the game is to exploit the horrendously broken and complex game rules that enable "hisec", and abuse the weaker for both sadistic pleasure and ingame assets.
Obviously this is not a very good combination, but that crap ends the moment you leave highsec. No more scammers, wardeccers, suicide gankers or local spambots.
It's a terrible tragedy that so many new players never experience the real MMO, and instead go trial > lousy time in hisec > disappointment > unsub. |
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2116
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Posted - 2014.10.23 10:48:21 -
[20] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote: There's always more new players to fall for it.
The worst part about it, is that almost all of these players (if they do any digging into a game they will be investing a lot of time in, especially an MMO) know of the Machiavellian nature that permeates literally all levels of EVE.
And I mean all levels, all the way down to the newbie miners being robbed by their HS CEO's through sham ore buybacks and tax gouging in an exclusively PvE motivated corp.
It surprises me that after 10 years of existence as a game that promotes cutthroat activities, people still can find reasons to complain about the nature of it.
Even the very idea of a "hub duel" is going to end badly, about 90% of the time, either with station games, a ransom, or a shiny km.
*sigh*
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5995
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Posted - 2014.10.23 11:03:19 -
[21] - Quote
im quite nice to the newbies i shoot in the face.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3131
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Posted - 2014.10.23 11:06:23 -
[22] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And here I thought that nobody was fool enough to fall for that trick anymore. There's always more new players to fall for it.
Right until there's no more new pilots left. Have you heard about the Tragedy of the commons?
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
179
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Posted - 2014.10.23 11:07:15 -
[23] - Quote
Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
5144
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:12:37 -
[24] - Quote
Quote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players.
Than nothing is wrong with the game. Something is wrong with people. Would you want a duel with him?
Recon makes them stronger
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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2116
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Posted - 2014.10.23 11:14:19 -
[25] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.
Oh......
You mean the way the game was designed and has gained notoriety for things such as:
The Guiding Hand Social Club Heist?
The EvE Bank cleanout?
Burn Jita, which even the devs said was "******* amazing."
Quit deluding yourself.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
66
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Posted - 2014.10.23 11:18:33 -
[26] - Quote
Someone tricking you in a duel is IMO not broken. It happens, it's unfortunate, and you end up learning not to expect pre-conditions for duels to be honored.
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:im quite nice to the newbies i shoot in the face. What's most wrong with the "new player experience" is that Ralph's alliance exists, along with a number of others, who wardec thousands of players and simply grief them. Most of these players are highsec alts of people who know what they are doing. Unfortunately, some are legitimate newbies who have joined a player-corp, hope to make friends and grow in the game, and are victimized by a very small group of highsec "mercenaries" who spend their days shooting people between Amarr and Jita, and visiting mission hubs to kill Drakes and Vexors.
Newbies will or won't keep playing eve based largely on whether or not they make friends, and the easiest way to do that is to join a player-corp. Unfortunately, the broken wardec mechanics make it impossible to operate a corp in highsec with more than a few dozen members. Once you get to 100 or so, your corp will have wardecs constantly, your newbies will be unable to travel, and you break the highsec learning environment for them.
The best thing CCP could do to improve new player retention would be to make additional, concurrent offensive wardecs cost twice as much as the first such wardec; and to index the base wardec prices to the cost of PLEX.
For example, The Devil's Warrior Alliance decs Acme Mining & Missions, with their 30 members. Costs about 50M ISK/week. Then they dec 25 more similar corps, all for the same price. What should happen is, the second target corp costs them 100M ISK/week, third one 200M, fourth one 400M, and so on. It will no longer be practical to keep a significant fraction of the players in the game under a wardec so they can shoot fish off stargates in Niarja.
If the above change were implemented, Devil's Warrior could still dec people and find targets; but they would actually have to find targets. As in, leave Niarja and look for them; because they won't afford to dec thousands of players anymore.
There are additional things badly broken about highsec wardecs, but this one is what hurts newbies and new player retention. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
183
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Posted - 2014.10.23 11:24:50 -
[27] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.
I admire your faith in the current society, but so far all the laws have failed to prevent wars, ****, murders, scamming, theft, torture. lying or any kind of evil humans happen to lay upon each others.
The only thing that stands between chaos is the fact that most people are truly moral and emphatic beings. Just like in EVE, which actually proves the exact opposite of your argument- even without punishments or consequences, only the minority lies, scams, awoxes and suicide ganks. |
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
2117
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:24:56 -
[28] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:
Unrelated stuff about how wardecs are soooooooooo broken, and we should make them more expensive.
Sure let's do that.
But at the same time, let's have wardecs follow leaving players for the entirety of the initial wardec.
And let's make corp creation cost 1b, and corp closing cost 500m.
There are so many ways to evade dec's you can literally bankrupt a corp if they really wanted to follow you.
Yet another case of "safesec" entitlement.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
5147
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:29:07 -
[29] - Quote
Game is fine, the people are ******.
Recon makes them stronger
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
183
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Posted - 2014.10.23 11:32:13 -
[30] - Quote
Being able to counter-bribe Concord to invalidate the wardec would work, but surely the current wardec cost is way too small compared to the amount of expendable income in game.
It should also be standings-based, a corp with lower faction standings and lower average sec status would need to pay more, or couldnt' even wardec.
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
2601
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Posted - 2014.10.23 11:32:54 -
[31] - Quote
I'm sure those corps with 50% tax rate recruiting in the newbie systems do wonders for the player retention. |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:34:17 -
[32] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Game is fine, the people are ******.
Indeed... and thats basically what OP was on about....
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Valkin Mordirc
324
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:37:40 -
[33] - Quote
On terms of Vets being mean to Newbies, Some are, some aren't
You just hear more about the bad because people will spread bad news faster than good.
On the topic of Honour. Honour is completely based on perspective, I find it 'honourable' or better termed respectable when people are willing to fight, rather than stay docked up all day, but some people say it's smart to stay docked up because you'll probably lose.
Honour is dead because the culture of EVE is vast, and a lot of peoples definition of honour is different.
As a Wardeccer, I've stright chased a venture in a Cerb, alphaed the poor thing off the field then did again after chasing the dude around, most would consider this harassment and griefing. I just considered it a part of the game. If you join a player corp, you sign an invisible waiver that says: I accept that I can be AWOXED Wardecced stolen from, taken advantage of from this point. Weather I understand it or not.
On the flip side, I've paid for ships which I've blown to pieces, offered advice to new people, and some of the people I blown up, are not apart of my corp, having fun. I play EVE, in the same way, not caring about if the player is 10 years or 1 day old. It honestly doesn't matter because a new player can easily kill me if the right steps are taken.
Once I was campnig the amarr undock, and a little mining barge was trying to warp away, I was in a Phobos and judging my the player multiple attempts to run, he didn't understand that a phobos could infinity-point him. After he 5th or so attempt he died. So I convo'ed him and asked him why he kept trying to run.
He didn't understand why he couldn't run and was under the impression we had had hacked the game. =S
However after explaining to what happened, he apologized for the accusation. And So I sent him 100mil isk and taught him how to create insta-undocks, and gave him a few URL's to guides that would help him in the short and long run. In my notes, I actually have saved sites to give to people who don't know what they are doing.
So, not all people who are merc and Highsec suspect gamers, are not 'Griefers' They just so happen to be tired of listening the same dribble about how they are ruining the game. They all started in the same place you did. But have learned in a quicker fashion that sometimes EVE isn't fair.
If I happened to be on your losemail, convo me and I ask me; 'how can I prevent this from happening again?' or have any general questions in general I can help you stop that.
However if you call me a psychopath, a griefer, so on and so forth all your going to is make me angry. And all the accomplishes is making yourself more of a target then benefiting you.
Losing things in EVE is an integral part of the game, have people around you to teach you why you've lost, and why you should it do it again, or how you can turn the tables, is of the utmost and highest importance to the game.
My ramblings on the subject anyways,.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Mithandra
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:46:37 -
[34] - Quote
Eve is a *****, she's a horny vicious vindictive evil ***** , but damn is she hot
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
|
Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises The Star League
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:48:13 -
[35] - Quote
The 'problem' with EVE in this respect is quite arguably very simple - that there are no consequences.
I play to compete with others - for humans beat any AI hands-down - and I like to game/play and there simply isn't anything else like EVE (that I have found). I've come back to EVE simply because that is true.
However, I also know that I am an uncommon type of player - which to me is a sad indication of the gaming industry, that simply puts out a lot of mindless entertainment rubbish that I find unplayable.
If EVE were ever re-started (which could be the final answer); then I would strongly recommend the following:
- each player restricted to a maximum of 2 accounts; with only a single character allowed on an account
Then EVE, the security of relevant space, 'honour', consequences - the entire actual concept of being a capsuleer in New Eden would be more 'real' - and then real things would happen.
Make EVE 'that different' (more like a proper simulation) - and need more realistic logistics. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5996
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:52:50 -
[36] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:Someone tricking you in a duel is IMO not broken. It happens, it's unfortunate, and you end up learning not to expect pre-conditions for duels to be honored. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:im quite nice to the newbies i shoot in the face. What's most wrong with the "new player experience" is that Ralph's alliance exists, along with a number of others, who wardec thousands of players and simply grief them. Most of these players are highsec alts of people who know what they are doing. Unfortunately, some are legitimate newbies who have joined a player-corp, hope to make friends and grow in the game, and are victimized by a very small group of highsec "mercenaries" who spend their days shooting people between Amarr and Jita, and visiting mission hubs to kill Drakes and Vexors. Newbies will or won't keep playing eve based largely on whether or not they make friends, and the easiest way to do that is to join a player-corp. Unfortunately, the broken wardec mechanics make it impossible to operate a corp in highsec with more than a few dozen members. Once you get to 100 or so, your corp will have wardecs constantly, your newbies will be unable to travel, and you break the highsec learning environment for them. The best thing CCP could do to improve new player retention would be to make additional, concurrent offensive wardecs cost twice as much as the first such wardec; and to index the base wardec prices to the cost of PLEX. For example, The Devil's Warrior Alliance decs Acme Mining & Missions, with their 30 members. Costs about 50M ISK/week. Then they dec 25 more similar corps, all for the same price. What should happen is, the second target corp costs them 100M ISK/week, third one 200M, fourth one 400M, and so on. It will no longer be practical to keep a significant fraction of the players in the game under a wardec so they can shoot fish off stargates in Niarja. If the above change were implemented, Devil's Warrior could still dec people and find targets; but they would actually have to find targets. As in, leave Niarja and look for them; because they won't afford to dec thousands of players anymore. There are additional things badly broken about highsec wardecs, but this one is what hurts newbies and new player retention. actually i spend a lot of time and isk on newbies i have shot, so does Feyd.
if you cant deal with or operate under war dec (which should be an excellent opportunity to teach newbies about war mechanics and ambush avoidance ) then why the hell are you taking newbies in. if you cant defend them , or enable them how to do so then how are they better off in your corp than in an npc one?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
726
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 11:56:47 -
[37] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Maybe test your fits / duel with corpmates rather than randoms in highsec?
That and CCP has this wonderful thing called a test server also. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2721
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 12:08:29 -
[38] - Quote
History is being ignored when planning for changes to nullsec?
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
|
Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
51
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 12:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time.
Over the last month, the price of the Garmur has dropped drastically. This is awesome as I've been waiting to get one!
So last night I got a Garmur. Looked up fits and made one I liked. I took it out for a spin and the second I undocked from jita every single person wanted a duel. I was finally hailed to convo by a 9 year old character asking if I wanted to duel.
"Sure I said, but only to hull, as I just bought this and I haven't had a proper fight in it yet."
They agreed, more than once, and I was very very clear. But were busy, and kept putting off he fight, so I logged for the night.
Tonight I jump on, and a few minutes later I'm hailed again by this 9 yr old character. They ask if I would like to duel to hull, and I say sure!
We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Now you may say to yourself, "well, duh! Next time don't trust anyone in EVE!"
but honestly that's what he said, so don't be an idiot.
Let's be clear. Losing an 80 mil ISK ship isn't going to bankrupt me or ruin my experience in EVE.
I can see it ruining someone else's experience though, and that's what I want to express. This person had nothing to gain, not even a killmail from killing my Garmur. Doing this kind of thing, is what makes people leave this game. And maybe that's what someone like him wants.
If it had been a fair fight and he had kept going past hull, I wouldn't have minded all that much, but there was no honor, and no sportsmanship at all. In the end, I really just ended up feeling sorry for this guy as a human being.
I've met some really amazing people in EVE, people that have given me ships, people that have taught me things about the game, and people that have podded me, and then given me the money I would need to get my ship back 10x.
Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
I know myself, that I rarely see any new characters anymore. Everyone I see is almost 10 years old. And this is why. If a 9 year old character has nothing better to do, that troll new characters, and under the sad guise of 'don't trust anyone in EVE' then I'm really not sure that I can see a long term investment in this game is something I want to consider.
Aeon Plex > o7 Kayden Drake > morning!? Aeon Plex > night for meeeee Kayden Drake > want to do a practice duel now? Aeon Plex > yes!! Aeon Plex > im comin outside Kayden Drake > your gonna use the garmur right? Aeon Plex > yeah :-) Aeon Plex > I haven't been in a fuight with it yet Kayden Drake > ok one minute Aeon Plex > lemme know :-) Aeon Plex > do you play at work or somethin'? Kayden Drake > yeh Aeon Plex > hee hee Aeon Plex > ok lemme know. I'm gonna have cig Aeon Plex > be back on in about 5? Kayden Drake > take your time Aeon Plex > and we shall battle!! ;-) Kayden Drake > hey back yet? Aeon Plex > I'm back Aeon Plex > lemme know when u are ready!! :-) Kayden Drake > can e plz practice duel at a planet, its too busy outside 4-4 Aeon Plex > sure Kayden Drake > ok, planet 1 Aeon Plex > I'll meet u there! Kayden Drake > i fit out this stupid cruiser randomly Kayden Drake > can i test my longpopng on you? just to see how it works Aeon Plex > sure! Kayden Drake > come cloer first, your not in point range Kayden Drake > closer* Aeon Plex > what is the point range on that? Kayden Drake > ROfl, your still moving away Kayden Drake > thats the thing i'm not sure Kayden Drake > thats what i want to test Aeon Plex > ok I'll stay still :-) so u can check Kayden Drake > thx Aeon Plex > LoL Aeon Plex > um.. (he blinks off)
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
I agree with OP. This kind of attitude is killing the game. It is almost impossible to find honest ISK doubler in JITA nowadays. But fear not! I am one of the few remaining honest ISK doubler around. These scammer have been giving us honest folks bad reputation.
To demonstrate my sincerity and to help you with the lost of your Garmur, I am willing to TRIPLE the isk you send to me. |
Mharius Skjem
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 12:29:46 -
[40] - Quote
The brutality of eve is what keeps bringing me back every time I quit. I've played for 7 years and now I'm starting again with a new toon.
The harshness of stuff that goes on makes eve a real living universe and has much more appeals for me than other games where your choices have no real consequences.
You choose to undock and duel with a stranger.
If people are turned off by this type of thing and don't stick around then I'd say that we don't want them as players. The quality control is working.
Eve is an elite mmo, it's not for everyone.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
|
|
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
370
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 13:06:48 -
[41] - Quote
I got screwed over by a guy I had been playing with consistently over a long period of time, in 2000 or so, in Asheron's Call. Since then I don't give any players in MMOs much trust unless they're someone I know IRL. I look at every interaction as "how can this player use this to screw me over?" Honorable fights in EVE? lol. Most other games, if they have players behaving honorably, have it because they have mechanics that force it, or protect players from each other.
The real problem with EVE is it is just a bunch of generic rooms that you load your spaceship through one by one while trying to find fights you think you can win. There is nothing entertaining outside of fighting other players. The PvE is dull and the "landscape" is boring. The world is seen from afar, interacted with indirectly, and delayed by an obvious server tick. And some people get to the point where they don't even find PVP entertaining anymore, or never did. So the only fun times left to be had is to prod other players and see how long it takes for them to flip out.
|
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1255
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 13:10:27 -
[42] - Quote
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha @ OP, thinking he could trust people he barely knows to only go to hull. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Journies End
287
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 13:13:07 -
[43] - Quote
The thing for me is that the way Eve itself is shaped as a game goes against the fundamental moralities we have as a society and in a sense goes against our own humanity itself. And because of that it creates something that works against the ideals we have been brought up with. Its this conflict of natures that turns off so many people to Eve imo, as not everyone can handle having their entire way of being thrown around and turned upside down. The few that can; stay, and the even fewer thrive in that sort of a system.
To me its this disconnect with the world around us that has been the reason that Eves numbers stay so low. As the darkness thats within the human soul is evident in everyday life, media tells us daily of the atrocities committed world wide. We shudder and think how horrible it is even if it hasnt happened directly to us but more importantly we believe that the unjust, evil people will be punished. In Eve there is none of that punishment or justice happening. The game itself is built to allow freely what societies worldwide try to remove from within its ranks.
That is imo what makes Eve what it is and what makes it so unique in the gaming world.
Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace
|
Paranoid Loyd
2370
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 13:36:43 -
[44] - Quote
What wrong with this game is you can't patch stupid.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6000
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 13:39:18 -
[45] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:What wrong with this game is you can't patch stupid.
try antimatter
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6901
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 13:46:47 -
[46] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE
Player entitlement.
GûêGòæGûîGöé GûêGöéGòæGûî GòæGöéGöéGûêGòæGûî GöéGòæGòæGûêGòæ GöéGòæGòæGûêGòæGûî GòæGöéGöéGûêGòæGöé GûêGòæGöéGûêGòæ
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
|
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
184
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:00:21 -
[47] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
I really don't understand what you expected CCP to do to prevent this. The only thing I can think that you're asking for is an area where combat has no consequences. Childish behavior exists in every video game so I don't think it will be the downfall of Eve. (Did the character have a large bounty on him?)
I do wish CCP would figure out a way to reward/bonus a white knight role so your antagonist could experience some Karma. Good vs. Evil is a powerful theme. Unfortunately, Evil has more power in Eve. |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
13
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:00:38 -
[48] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha @ OP, thinking he could trust people he barely knows to only go to hull.
ha ha ha ha....beeuurrkk...oops sorry.
Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.
Its why you can be here..... lovin' boobies.
Basically a noble, though somewhat unforgiving, trait.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6003
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:05:28 -
[49] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.
actually its called naive or gullible
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10481
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:06:13 -
[50] - Quote
That's... simplest terms?
Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others. |
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
13
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:08:44 -
[51] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:
Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.
actually its called naive or gullible
In your (sad?) world it probably does.
In others it can start long lasting friendships and other worthwhile things.
In the OP's case it unfortunately backfired. But bless him/her for at least giving someone that option.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6003
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:09:02 -
[52] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:That's... simplest terms?
Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others. indeed
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
13
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:11:08 -
[53] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:That's... simplest terms?
Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others.
Fully agree... but only because we let them :)
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Valkin Mordirc
327
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:14:19 -
[54] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:
Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.
actually its called naive or gullible In your (sad?) world it probably does. In others it can start long lasting friendships and other worthwhile things. In the OP's case it unfortunately backfired. But bless him/her for at least giving someone that option.
And why is that sad?
Because what he does in the game different from the theme park you wish it to be?
Or is it because he understands what EVE is? Where you can be a villain?
Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Or because you think you are entitled to be left to play in your own private sandbox?
Where as the rest EVE happily plays together, Even though some might not like the castles others are building?
HTFU
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Athena Aideron
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:15:16 -
[55] - Quote
OP stated that this obviously immoral fellow had nothing to gain.. He got a Kill Mail which is probably the best thing ever.
Also, if you feel bad for him as a human being because of how he plays a video game then I must saddly object to your point of view. I have flown and met players from all possible lines of work in Eve, and I have never met someone that I would consider evil or sociopathic and so forth.
Hell, there's even Eve trailers adversing subversion and deceit, so yeah, there's many things "wrong" with Eve, but getting fooled is not one of them. In fact, I think it makes Eve unique.
Now what do I think is wrong in Eve? Assumptions that one is evul based on game play and those that would encourage such assumptions. True sociopaths do not play video games.. |
Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises The Star League
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:17:48 -
[56] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: The thing for me is that the way Eve itself is shaped as a game goes against the fundamental moralities we have as a society and in a sense goes against our own humanity itself. And because of that it creates something that works against the ideals we have been brought up with. Its this conflict of natures that turns off so many people to Eve imo, as not everyone can handle having their entire way of being thrown around and turned upside down. The few that can; stay, and the even fewer thrive in that sort of a system.
To me its this disconnect with the world around us that has been the reason that Eves numbers stay so low. As the darkness thats within the human soul is evident in everyday life, media tells us daily of the atrocities committed world wide. We shudder and think how horrible it is even if it hasnt happened directly to us but more importantly we believe that the unjust, evil people will be punished. In Eve there is none of that punishment or justice happening. The game itself is built to allow freely what societies worldwide try to remove from within its ranks.
That is imo what makes Eve what it is and what makes it so unique in the gaming world.
Close and connects to my earlier post - there are no (completely insufficient) consequences in EVE. Players play EVE as they would conduct RL, if RL had the same 'sandbox' as EVE.
What's particularly wrong with EVE - especially now - is that the Predator v Prey ratio is so skewed. Make EVE a bit more of a simulation and less gamey and more people may wish to play and believe they have a chance - taking the risk because indeed EVE <> RL.
More actual players means more potential prey to support the predator population.
Goodness, we have to eventually leave this little planet of ours - a space-based game that actually encouraged that interest, in the most realistic way possible, would help the entire human race! -> EVE2.......
EVE would then be the most comprehensive Beta Test ever run. I wonder how many new players would actually be interested if EVE were actually to restart? |
embrel
BamBam Inc. Outlanders United
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:35:11 -
[57] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote: If you want a 'fair' duel, or just one to test out fits, stick with corpmates / alliancemembers & friends to test stuff like that out. Don't rely on total strangers to keep their word, that'll get you killed/scammed, just like in reality (but in EvE it's just pixels)
I'm happy to live in a place where people are far more trustworthy than they are in Eve.
And I feel sorry for you if you live in a place where people are like players in Eve.
I mean, fine in a game.... but in RL....??? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6003
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:41:09 -
[58] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
In your (sad?) world it probably does.
why ? did i miss a memo about strangers on the internet at some point ?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
14
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:44:25 -
[59] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:
Its called 'benefit of the doubt' by the way.
actually its called naive or gullible In your (sad?) world it probably does. In others it can start long lasting friendships and other worthwhile things. In the OP's case it unfortunately backfired. But bless him/her for at least giving someone that option. And why is that sad? Because what he does in the game different from the theme park you wish it to be? Or is it because he understands what EVE is? Where you can be a villain? Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions? Or because you think you are entitled to be left to play in your own private sandbox? Where as the rest EVE happily plays together, Even though some might not like the castles others are building? HTFU
If you need me to explain you why that is sad ... then thats even more sad... i weep for you.
Because what he does in the game different from the theme park you wish it to be?
I have never said this game needed to be changed... if i did i apologise. Its PEOPLE that, i think, need to change. If you dont understand why or need an example.... look at the news and around you. And yes i understand this is a game but chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
Or is it because he understands what EVE is? Where you can be a villain?
I understand EVE perfectly thank you... i too think its great if you can PLAY the villain.
Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.
Or because you think you are entitled to be left to play in your own private sandbox?
I dont feel entitled to anything... really. The game is fine as is... its people screwing other people over (not PvP) and calling it okay just because they can. Its your sense of whats right and wrong that should steer your actions...
Jeez how do you explain that... if you dont get that by now you probably never will.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
5155
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:51:09 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:that works against the ideals we have been brought up with.
Oh really? Someone forces those people to shot others in the face, or to scam them, or make them look miserable? Or maybe it isn't game or you, but some evil spirit take control of your mind?
New player that tries in vain to get something from data sites in low, just to see how veteran passing by in Astero who flips him a finger and says HTFU.
And second one veteran player fills the new guy wallet with 50 M ISK for more ships to lose.
Recon makes them stronger
|
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8664
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 14:56:48 -
[61] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:
I'm with the OP. Most people always take the 'it's part of the game' stance (especially the ones actively engaging in such things), but no one seems to care that this drives off a lot of people who would otherwise be happily playing along.
People take that stance because it is the correct one. You are playing a competitive game. A non-competitive game would not allow such behavior.. The CHOICE to play a competitive game comes with the CONSEQUENCE of being competed against.
I don't try to chase people out of the game, but I'm glad that others do, because if a person can't deal with 100% inconsequential and totally irrelevant (in the grand scheme of things) loss of imaginary items, they should not be playing a video game in the 1st place.
I for one like that most of the people who I'm playing with/against in this game are not the over-sensitive weaklings found in every other online game I've played. As a corp mate once said of this very situation: You don't go to a freaking Biker Bar for tea, crumpets and polite conversation.
EVE is a virtual biker bar. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
5162
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:02:45 -
[62] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:EVE is a virtual biker bar.
Its Sodom and Gomorrah, but there are still polite people inside, strangely.
Recon makes them stronger
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6005
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:08:57 -
[63] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions.
you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20982
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:11:35 -
[64] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote: Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.
Moral codes and noble actions are culture and environment sensitive, different cultures and environments produce different rules and thus moral codes, you only have to look at the differences between cultures in the real world to see this.
Eve is a game that is advertised as a harsh, dark and dystopian environment, where you, the player, are basically an immortal demigod and content for every other player. The setting and rules in Eve are very different to their real life equivalents, as such the moral code that applies to Eve is different to the moral codes that apply in the real world.
TL;DR I don't bring my real world morals into Eve, and I don't take my Eve morals, or lack of them, into meatspace; because I can differentiate between fantasy and real life I know that they're very different places and to do so would be inappropriate.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8665
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:14:40 -
[65] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.
The present disaster of a game that 10s of thousands of people like to play. Some disaster.
If you actually think this, why are you still here? EVE was CONCEIVED as a game of maximum freedom and everyone knows that freedom means people not walking lock-step in politically correct ways but rather (gasp) people actually doing what they wish, when they wish. Making the choice to play a game that was BUILT on the concept of freedom when you hate other people being free (and then expecting it to change) is the new definition of insanity IMO.
|
Valkin Mordirc
332
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:17:06 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.
The fact the you bring Real Life concepts into a video game, should be worrying. The fact that you can't differentiate actions in a video game, and actions in real life, is worrying. The fact that you think that Video game action translate into real life behaviour or attitude. Is worrying.
Just because I play Call Of Duty doesn't mean I will join the military and go on a giant illegal escapade,
Just because I play Skyrim doesn't mean I will learn how to sword fight.
Just because I play Hitman doesn't mean I want to become an assassin.
Also due to the fact that you think people in real life, are honourable and noble is gullible,
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
14
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:23:16 -
[67] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right.
Look here Ralphie ... when i say not-nice people i dont mean your little antics with the PvP crowd... even with the unvoluntary ones.
When OP tells his/her story it looks to me they had a friendly convo about trying something out right?
When OP stresses on the fact that its just a test and no going beyond hull... and you still blow up?
Then IRL in MY book you are a lousy person.
You may be looking at a virtual world with makebelieve characters but there are real folks behind that screen.
Theres PvP and theres just beeing rotten to the core. Ive not been around too long in this game but ive allready seen stuff that makes your eyes water. Its downright distasteful.
If that means im a weak carebear... pffff... then i wear that title with pride.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Valkin Mordirc
332
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:25:30 -
[68] - Quote
Hey Everyone, I think we found Veer's long lost brother.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Behr Oroo
The Circus Corp Alternate Allegiance
92
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:26:37 -
[69] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:That's... simplest terms?
Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others.
This is exactly true. However it doesnt include the fact that when that person does kick down your sandcastle you cant go out and break their knees for doing it. At least not in a way I find satisfying. They go hide. I personally find this to be the most frustrating thing in the game. |
Valkin Mordirc
332
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:29:27 -
[70] - Quote
Behr Oroo wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:That's... simplest terms?
Bottom line is Eve is a niche sandbox and this is one of the reasons. Freedom to play in the sand your way means there will inevitably be those who enjoy stomping all over the nice sandcastles of others. This is exactly true. However it doesnt include the fact that when that person does kick down your sandcastle you cant go out and break their knees for doing it. At least not in a way I find satisfying. They go hide. I personally find this to be the most frustrating thing in the game.
Some do and some don't,
I've had plenty of corps retaliate effectively. I was apart of a corp called Deadly Fingertips at somepoint before to closed, we wardecced some alliance we noted to be around Amarr a lot.
We killed a few of there indy's and frigs.
They undocked 40 ravens on two vindicators and promptly got two 1.3bill isk killmails with no loses. I thought it was pretty ******* cool. XD
#DeleteTheWeak
|
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
14
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:29:27 -
[71] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Quote:Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately. The fact the you bring Real Life concepts into a video game, should be worrying. The fact that you can't differentiate actions in a video game, and actions in real life, is worrying. The fact that you think that Video game action translate into real life behaviour or attitude. Is worrying. Just because I play Call Of Duty doesn't mean I will join the military and go on a giant illegal escapade, Just because I play Skyrim doesn't mean I will learn how to sword fight. Just because I play Hitman doesn't mean I want to become an assassin. Also due to the fact that you think people in real life, are honourable and noble is gullible,
The fact that you have no idea what im talking about (and obviously you dont) is worrying.
But looking at the world around me im not at all surprised.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Valkin Mordirc
332
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:31:10 -
[72] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
The fact that you have no idea what im talking about (and obviously you dont) is worrying.
But looking at the world around me im not at all surprised.
Peace out then buddy.
If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen,
Don't stay in bad company,
That sorta thing,
Oh. And Harden the **** up.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20985
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:31:33 -
[73] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:You may be looking at a virtual world with makebelieve characters but there are real folks behind that screen. While it may be true that there are real people behind the screen, their character is not, it is a digital entity that is content for other players. In short other players are advanced, and in some cases not so advanced, NPCs.
Quote:Theres PvP and theres just beeing rotten to the core. Ive not been around too long in this game but ive allready seen stuff that makes your eyes water. Its downright distasteful. So find another game that is more to your liking, nobody is forcing you to play Eve.
Quote:If that means im a weak carebear... pffff... then i wear that title with pride. You're struggling to qualify for that title at the moment.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8669
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:31:58 -
[74] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: Where you think Moral codes and Noble actions should be apart of Game Decisions?
Nowhere.... They SHOULD be part of YOU! But that concept seems lost on some of my fellow players... unfortunately.
Moral codes and noble actions are culture and environment sensitive, different cultures and environments produce different rules and thus moral codes, you only have to look at the differences between cultures in the real world to see this. Eve is a game that is advertised as a harsh, dark and dystopian environment, where you, the player, are basically an immortal demigod and content for every other player. The setting and rules in Eve are very different to their real life equivalents, as such the moral code that applies to Eve is different to the moral codes that apply in the real world. TL;DR I don't bring my real world morals into Eve, and I don't take my Eve morals, or lack of them, into meatspace; because I can differentiate between fantasy and real life I know that they're very different places and to do so would be inappropriate.
Well said.
Now, me personally, I do kind of bring my 'morals' into the game. I don't gank or scam or war dec in high sec etc etc. I've been in 2 gank fleets for the luls that didn't get to gank anything and I'll shoot anything in low, null or wormhole space just because I can and they are there. I don't do this because doing otherwise is 'wrong' (the only 'wrong' in this game are things against the EULA), but because i don't enjoy them.
When it comes to my in game activities, I'm as "whitebread" as you can get. If we had real walking ins stations, my avatar would be seen in a robe and slippers puffing on a pipe while listening to some Nat King Cole.
The difference is that I know my preferences apply to ME and me alone. I don't try to project my personal 'moral code' on other people in game or in real life. In real life I'm not into tattooing and piercing things and various other life choices, but I look at people who are and say "well, it's not me, but you do you" and be done with it.
Others want things they don't do OUTLAWED because 'it's not right'. It's a heavy authoritarian tendency, everything must conform to their way of doing things else it's invalid.
I'll violate the "separation of game and life" rule here and say that it's a good bet that the people who don't like the fact that other people are free to do as they please in a video game probably don't like that same fact about people in the real world either. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8669
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:33:38 -
[75] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
You may be looking at a virtual world with makebelieve characters but there are real folks behind that screen.
Yes, and those real people made the adult choice to play a game with anonymous other people over the internet. The consequence of this is, well, internet behavior. If you don't like that, stay off the internet. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6519
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:34:28 -
[76] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Game is fine, the people are ******.
No kidding. I wouldn't accept a 'duel to hull' request if it was my own alt offering it. If I'm that much of a **** to myself, I can only imagine how people I don't know would be.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
97
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:38:58 -
[77] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue.
All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.
Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.
None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.
|
Anslo
Scope Works
19098
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:42:08 -
[78] - Quote
People are wrong with Eve. The bitter vets are what's wrong with Eve. It's up to people with a want to change things for the better to fix Eve.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Snakebyte Jack
Fear and Loathing in New Eden
41
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:47:59 -
[79] - Quote
I almost broke into a smile after reading this. |
Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
242
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:49:38 -
[80] - Quote
What is really wrong with EvE, is people like the OP, who make silly mistakes, then rather than learn from it and move on, come to the forums to cry about how their gaming fun was ruined, and how the game should be changed to make it easier for them.
OP, if you were smart, you would learn from this, that trusting random people in high sec who want to duel you is silly. Trusting anyone ought to be a serious thing is this game, because it is so easy to screw people over.
Trust is something that should be earned, one step at a time. If you see a new player, do you trust that they are new? With so many alts, I don't think that many of the new players are even new. Now if you work with that newbie, for a while, you could build trust with them. But it could still be the alt of some vet, ready to stab you in the back, when you least expect it!
But all that kind of stuff makes EvE the great game is it, and is a big reason why I play it, and was a big reason I joined this game as a newbie! |
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:52:54 -
[81] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:
You may be looking at a virtual world with makebelieve characters but there are real folks behind that screen.
Yes, and those real people made the adult choice to play a game with anonymous other people over the internet. The consequence of this is, well, internet behavior. If you don't like that, stay off the internet.
They also can make the adult choice of quitting, which i think was the general idea behind this thread.
That you compare a service where people either invest their time or money to some stereotypical chat room behavior is just a cherry on top, maybe that would illustrate why so few companies embark on the bold journey of ffa pvp with loosing stuff.
In the end, and forgive the PC term, people can be butts, especially if a masure of entertainment can be derived from it, it does not make them less of a butt if it is permitted or even encouraged ("content"), and it does not take a psychology degree to estimate that playing with butts would be a niche (NO pun intended).
After that whether the end result is wrong or ok is a matter perspective. |
Toshiro Hasegawa
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
101
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:56:36 -
[82] - Quote
In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE ?: nothing
History is the study of change.
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:05:33 -
[83] - Quote
Toshiro Hasegawa wrote:In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE ?: nothing
Indeed!
But that was really never what i was on about...
Oh and i take my Morals everywhere i go Jenna... something more peeps should try.
Its way more of a challenge than this 'playing evil'... and way cooler stuff can come of it :)
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
337
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:09:54 -
[84] - Quote
On the other hand I wish there was some other profit from shooting other players then "hurr hurr I killed you and got this pretty mail and your corpse ohh sweet corpse and o hi I got this crappy loot from your wreck" aside from possible bounties that is.
Unless you go for ganking freighters and such of c. I have been thinking of bounties being tied to sec status ie. 10mil per negative sec status or some such but that would be ruined by alts unfortunately.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
180
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:12:41 -
[85] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:
All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.
Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.
None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.
This really isn't true. Highsec is designed with an infallible police force that wipes out criminals, no matter how powerful they are. Your description may be accurate for nullsec, but certainly not for highsec. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
180
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:16:14 -
[86] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players. It's just a consequence of there being no real punishments for awoxing, scamming, suicide ganking, lying, etc.... It's exactly what America would be like if we abolished all laws and tried to institute some kind of libertarian paradise hoping that people would naturally choose good over evil. It never works. The only way to deter anti-social conduct is to have serious enough punishments to make the would be offender think twice before going on the wrong path. Until Eve cracks down on wrongful conduct, expect the present disaster to continue. The present disaster of a game that 10s of thousands of people like to play. Some disaster. If you actually think this, why are you still here? EVE was CONCEIVED as a game of maximum freedom and everyone knows that freedom means people not walking lock-step in politically correct ways but rather (gasp) people actually doing what they wish, when they wish. Making the choice to play a game that was BUILT on the concept of freedom when you hate other people being free (and then expecting it to change) is the new definition of insanity IMO.
I'm not sure how many people are actually playing the game. The flood of alts and bot accounts makes it difficult to discern how many unique human players there are. And from what I gather retention stats are rather poor.
I'm here because I enjoy the PvE aspects of the game, think incursions and missions, and would like to continue enjoying them. The whole concept of "freedom" is a misnomer when CCP arbitrarily determines the mechanics in highsec. Want to make agression timers 6 hours instead of 15 minutes? Want to eliminate all non-consensual pvp? Want to remove CONCORD from the game? Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Eve is only a sandbox within the arbitrary framework that CCP is continually adjusting. And I'm proud to encourage adjustments in what I consider to be a positive direction. |
Valkin Mordirc
335
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:18:38 -
[87] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Black Pedro wrote:
All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.
Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.
None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.
This really isn't true. Highsec is designed with an infallible police force that wipes out criminals, no matter how powerful they are. Your description may be accurate for nullsec, but certainly not for highsec.
Does anybody hear something? It seem really small and faint? Almost like something stuck on repeat.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8674
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:28:50 -
[88] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:
That you compare a service where people either invest their time or money to some stereotypical chat room behavior is just a cherry on top, maybe that would illustrate why so few companies embark on the bold journey of ffa pvp with loosing stuff.
This is important, because their are other games. I play a few of them. And you are right, very few companies do what CCP does.
This brings to my mind the question: Since you know why few other companies do this, why give your money and time to a company that does if yo don't like the resulting community.
If i hated community behavior of the games rule set so much, I personally wouldn't be here. Yet you have a forum full of griping folk who have major problems with, well, everything, but yet they are still here. That's what I don't understand. |
Anslo
Scope Works
19157
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:28:57 -
[89] - Quote
3edgy5me bruh
Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:30:24 -
[90] - Quote
I trust very few people in Eve:
1. Myself. 2. Chribba (to a point)
I trust everyone else to look after their own self interest first and foremost, and understand that if I give them the opportunity, they will (not may, but will) take advatage of that opportunity and scam me, rob me, destroy my ship and assets, or otherwise ruin my day in the name of making theirs. It is important to remember that Eve is a dystopian society, quite unlike any modern civilization in that there are no consequences to the "villian" for being a villian and no benefit to the hero for playing that role. The default assumption is that everyone is a villian until they prove otherwise.
I joke about not trusting my own alts, but the reality of it is that Eve is a game where trust cannot be freely given until it needs to be taken away - it is a game where trust should have to be earned before it is given.
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
|
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8674
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:31:37 -
[91] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Black Pedro wrote:
All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.
Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.
None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.
This really isn't true. Highsec is designed with an infallible police force that wipes out criminals, no matter how powerful they are. Your description may be accurate for nullsec, but certainly not for highsec.
This is a classic trait of the high sec crowd: believing EVE is some balkanized 'thing' instead of what it is; a singular whole. The rules apply everywhere, the ONLY difference is the consequences in high sec.
CONCORD does not wipe out criminals, criminals fly everyday in high sec in full view of CONCORD. The system provides a consequence for certain actions, but that's all. Guns don't magically stop working just because one is in high sec.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10176
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:34:23 -
[92] - Quote
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And here I thought that nobody was fool enough to fall for that trick anymore. There's always more new players to fall for it.
No, I meant in this day and age, where a high school degree is not an unusual thing.
No even semi educated man or woman would un-ironically fall for that one.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Valkin Mordirc
338
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:35:15 -
[93] - Quote
Anslo wrote:3edgy5me bruh
Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.
*Jenn aSide
Also people make EVE great. It's it dirty that make EVE great.
Without Kane, Monk, the Guiding Hand Society, EVE wouldn't be EVE.
I find it funny that become are Toxic to people who Wardec, and suspect game, before they even actually know the person. They just assume that I am out to grief because I'm a wardeccer. If I'm playing the game as intended then there should be no reason for the hate, but there is, and it's because people seem to confuse Wardeccing and the such, as griefing, which it's not.
I'm actually a fairly nice person, right up until someone decides for me that I'm a psychopath.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10176
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:35:27 -
[94] - Quote
Anslo wrote:3edgy5me bruh
Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.
Is that why you have a link in your sig to a blog where you advocate deliberate abuse of the petition system to try to ban people you don't like?
Yeah, the game totally needs more of you.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8674
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:37:09 -
[95] - Quote
Anslo wrote:3edgy5me bruh
Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides.
Better for who? Do you go into biker bars in real life with flowers and literature about politeness in hopes to change things? Why not just go to the nearest knitting circle instead so you can feel at home (lol)? Who are you to decide what's 'better' for thousands of people?
What we're talking about isn't "nice" vs "Toxic". I'm nice to everyone in game because I don't try to shoot them unless they are in a position to shoot back . I simply don't expect anyone else to have to follow MY personal behavior code, because unlike some i believe in the concept of freedom (even in a video game). What others do (within the bounds of the EULA) is fair play and none of my business.
In all aspects of life their are people who belong and people who try to fit their square pegs into some round holes. don't get mad at me because you don't fit.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8681
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:38:39 -
[96] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote:3edgy5me bruh
Some people are quite nice in Eve, others are toxic. I, personally, decided to stay instead of abandon Eve and try to change it for the better. The last thing we need are more Jenna Sides. Is that why you have a link in your sig to a blog where you advocate deliberate abuse of the petition system to try to ban people you don't like? Yeah, the game totally needs more of you.
You should hear him on comms, it's...interesting what he thinks of himself and his ability to FC lol.
|
Anslo
Scope Works
19159
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:39:32 -
[97] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Also people make EVE great. It's it dirty that make EVE great.
Without Kane, Monk, the Guiding Hand Society, EVE wouldn't be EVE. *Guiding Hand Social Club
And GHSC were gentlemen and scholars. Kids these days are just thugs.
Quote:I find it funny that become are Toxic to people who Wardec, and suspect game, before they even actually know the person. They just assume that I am out to grief because I'm a wardeccer. If I'm playing the game as intended then there should be no reason for the hate, but there is, and it's because people seem to confuse Wardeccing and the such, as griefing, which it's not. My issue isn't the wardec this or station games that (ok I hate station games but for a totall different reason ( **** you Thanny pilot in Syndi we hot dropped on YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)). It's the attitude. The game mechanics are the game mechanics. Working as intended etc. My issue is with the attitude only. Of people such as Kaarous and Jenn etc, who are broken records of black and white.
Quote:I'm actually a fairly nice person, right up until someone decides for me that I'm a psychopath. 8/10 would bang tbh
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is that why you have a link in your sig to a blog where you advocate deliberate abuse of the petition system to try to ban people you don't like? Yeah, the game totally needs more of you.
:effort:
Get mad. Stay mad.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8681
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:40:16 -
[98] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:And I'm proud to encourage adjustments in what I consider to be a positive direction.
You for got the words "for me" at the end of that sentence.
|
Anslo
Scope Works
19159
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:41:54 -
[99] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Better for who? Do you go into biker bars in real life with flowers and literature about politeness in hopes to change things? Why not just go to the nearest knitting circle instead so you can feel at home (lol)? Who are you to decide what's 'better' for thousands of people? No, by teaching people to teach others how to pve AND pvp and shoot bads in the face without the vitriol.
Quote:What we're talking about isn't "nice" vs "Toxic". I'm nice to everyone in game because I don't try to shoot them unless they are in a position to shoot back . I simply don't expect anyone else to have to follow MY personal behavior code, because unlike some i believe in the concept of freedom (even in a video game). What others do (within the bounds of the EULA) is fair play and none of my business. Well **** son, good on you. No sarcasm, literally, I like that.
Quote:In all aspects of life their are people who belong and people who try to fit their square pegs into some round holes. don't get mad at me because you don't fit. I'm not. I just make a new hole for the newbro or carebear to fit in to.
Jenn aSide wrote:You should hear him on comms, it's...interesting what he thinks of himself and his ability to FC lol. Yeah, I think I'm a **** FC. P sure everyone can confirm this.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10179
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:45:05 -
[100] - Quote
Anslo wrote:My issue is with the attitude only. Of people such as Kaarous and Jenn etc, who are broken records of black and white.
Translation:
"If all of the risk of loss were tissues and butt floss, oh what a world it would be"
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
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Anslo
Scope Works
19164
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:45:40 -
[101] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote:My issue is with the attitude only. Of people such as Kaarous and Jenn etc, who are broken records of black and white.
Translation: "If all of the risk of loss were tissues and butt floss, oh what a world it would be"
u w0t meight
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8686
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:47:06 -
[102] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:What is really wrong with EvE, is people like the OP, who make silly mistakes, then rather than learn from it and move on, come to the forums to cry about how their gaming fun was ruined, and how the game should be changed to make it easier for them.
I can't like this enough. + 1000
People do it all the time here and in real life: They make a stupid mistake, but admitting it was stupid would hurt their ego, so they externalize the fault to save themselves that pain.
Ironically, they end up causing themselves MORE pain in the long run because instead of learning to think and avoid the mistake, they make the mistake again and again (you don't have to change your own behavior when it's "always someone else's fault").
Taking responsibility for your actions and choices (even in a game) isn't noble, its wise, because it leads you to modify your own behavior to prevent the bad things from even happening in the 1st place. These people who run from responsibility never seem to learn that, not even when they get repeatedly ganked in a video game or repeatedly arrested in real life lol. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:48:34 -
[103] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote:My issue is with the attitude only. Of people such as Kaarous and Jenn etc, who are broken records of black and white.
Translation: "If all of the risk of loss were tissues and butt floss, oh what a world it would be" u w0t meight
I thought it was obvious.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:49:39 -
[104] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:And I'm proud to encourage adjustments in what I consider to be a positive direction. You for got the words "for me" at the end of that sentence.
Not sure what you are trying to say. I'm already doing quite well and am essentially gank proof. I express sympathy for the newer and more casual players who are getting ganked out of the game, and advocate steps to prevent that kind of nonsense in highsec. |
Anslo
Scope Works
19164
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:50:02 -
[105] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote:My issue is with the attitude only. Of people such as Kaarous and Jenn etc, who are broken records of black and white.
Translation: "If all of the risk of loss were tissues and butt floss, oh what a world it would be" u w0t meight I thought it was obvious.
u ******* wot meight
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Valkin Mordirc
343
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:50:28 -
[106] - Quote
GUYS
There it was again! It's like somebody is trying to say something...
#DeleteTheWeak
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6523
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:50:30 -
[107] - Quote
I think Jenn and Kaarous date IRL.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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somedudeinaship
Republic University Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:50:33 -
[108] - Quote
People get to be their true selves in an online game. They get to unleash all their anger, racism, hate, fear, doubt, sexism, and more onto an entire population of other people. It gives them the ability to let out what they feel in a safe environment, which btw I might add is far more constructive then them doing so in the real world. It is therefore perhaps a great service to society that games like this provide some sort of therapy. I do understand that you lost your ship and that it sucks that it happened, but I'd only argue that it was for the good of society that you played your part.
Welcome to the human race. |
Anslo
Scope Works
19164
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:50:57 -
[109] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:GUYS There it was again! It's like somebody is trying to say something... I'll say something to you in bed bby
;D
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:51:14 -
[110] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
This is a classic trait of the high sec crowd: believing EVE is some balkanized 'thing' instead of what it is; a singular whole. The rules apply everywhere, the ONLY difference is the consequences in high sec.
CONCORD does not wipe out criminals, criminals fly everyday in high sec in full view of CONCORD. The system provides a consequence for certain actions, but that's all. Guns don't magically stop working just because one is in high sec.
Another confused argument. Try to grasp that all of the game mechanics are arbitrarily determined by CCP, and can, and often are, changed on a whim. To advocate for changes that I view as positive for the game is nothing short of laudable. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:52:52 -
[111] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote:My issue is with the attitude only. Of people such as Kaarous and Jenn etc, who are broken records of black and white.
Translation: "If all of the risk of loss were tissues and butt floss, oh what a world it would be" u w0t meight I thought it was obvious. u ******* wot meight
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4664916992/h4178D278/
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Valkin Mordirc
343
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:53:29 -
[112] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:GUYS There it was again! It's like somebody is trying to say something... I'll say something to you in bed bby ;D
No no I heard you...It was something...else....like a troll. A very very ugly troll...
Also you ran me out of your Cabin last time. =(
#DeleteTheWeak
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UnknownEnemyCombatant
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:53:30 -
[113] - Quote
as a new player in eve. 45 days. i have had a very hard time. i have zero isk. and saved to buy a astero, that a person blew up as fast as it took to buy it. i now have no way to make money no ships and a general bad taste in my mouth. so i understand you point. as it is now ill prob just left my acct unsub since i cant buy anything or do anythin. i dont even have the isk to upgrade my clone, so yes eve was fun for a week. n it just seem like its full of the worst kind of people in the gaming community. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8686
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:53:35 -
[114] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
This is a classic trait of the high sec crowd: believing EVE is some balkanized 'thing' instead of what it is; a singular whole. The rules apply everywhere, the ONLY difference is the consequences in high sec.
CONCORD does not wipe out criminals, criminals fly everyday in high sec in full view of CONCORD. The system provides a consequence for certain actions, but that's all. Guns don't magically stop working just because one is in high sec.
Another confused argument. Try to grasp that all of the game mechanics are arbitrarily determined by CCP, and can, and often are, changed on a whim. To advocate for changes that I view as positive for the game is nothing short of laudable.
And yet, no one is "lauding" you lol. As I used to tell Dinsdale, so applies to you: The more you post the more people turn against what you want.
Therefore, post more, it makes for a better game in the long run
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Anslo
Scope Works
19164
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:53:35 -
[115] - Quote
IL REK U GUVNA
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20990
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:54:21 -
[116] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:To advocate for changes that I view as positive for the game is nothing short of laudable. You misspelt laughable.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Valkin Mordirc
343
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:54:33 -
[117] - Quote
I swear to god I heard it again...
Edit: Who is Johan talking to?
#DeleteTheWeak
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Anslo
Scope Works
19164
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:55:08 -
[118] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:GUYS There it was again! It's like somebody is trying to say something... I'll say something to you in bed bby ;D No no I heard you...It was something...else....like a troll. A very very ugly troll... Also you ran me out of your Cabin last time. =( Well shave next time I thought you were a bear or some **** m8r.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5584
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:55:46 -
[119] - Quote
I keep hoping that people start to notice just one thing.
That thing is, if you can be an ass-hat and get away with it, without any consequences at all, people will do that.
Now there's a lot of "HURF BLURF Don't confuse RL with a game!!" I would tend to agree with that except for ...
well when people hide in voting booths and rob and murder people with the anonymity of a ballot, we are in effect seeing a bridge between the "you can be a douche if you can get away with it" and "RL".
For that I also hope Eve is some huge experiment to answer that question, and if ANY person is ready to go full douche when they can get away with it, then I hope that translates into new RL policies that deny any one person the ability to anonymously and without consequences use any state institutions as a vehicle to "get away with it". Nobody should be voting to send someone else's kids to a meat grinder or for the state to steal more money from their neighbor without any real consequences to themselves, their own fortunes, and their own safety.
Imagine if we had to use our real names in all MMOs....
think about it.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:55:55 -
[120] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:GUYS There it was again! It's like somebody is trying to say something... I'll say something to you in bed bby ;D No no I heard you...It was something...else....like a troll. A very very ugly troll... Also you ran me out of your Cabin last time. =(
It's hilarious that in your distorted world someone expecting some modicum of effective police protection in highsec, and also appropriate punishments for career criminals therein is a "troll." Might want to hit up the dictionary again. |
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8688
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:56:52 -
[121] - Quote
UnknownEnemyCombatant wrote:as a new player in eve. 45 days. i have had a very hard time. i have zero isk. and saved to buy a astero, that a person blew up as fast as it took to buy it. i now have no way to make money no ships and a general bad taste in my mouth. so i understand you point. as it is now ill prob just left my acct unsub since i cant buy anything or do anythin. i dont even have the isk to upgrade my clone, so yes eve was fun for a week. n it just seem like its full of the worst kind of people in the gaming community.
WITNESS NOW, all ye who think the OP has a point. The above poster (who can't figure out how to play a game that most of us learned how to play years ago when it was much harsher and didn't give you so much free stuff in the tutorials) is what you what MORE of in this game.
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Valkin Mordirc
347
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:56:54 -
[122] - Quote
THERE IT WAS AGAIN
#DeleteTheWeak
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10185
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:57:38 -
[123] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Imagine if we had to use our real names in all MMOs....
There'd be a lot of death threatening carebears on one of those lists that is hard to get yourself removed from.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:58:35 -
[124] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:And yet, no one is "lauding" you lol. As I used to tell Dinsdale, so applies to you: The more you post the more people turn against what you want. Therefore, post more, it makes for a better game in the long run
Sure the typical suicide ganking griefers that roam the forums aren't lauding me - I'll survive. Thankfully the real heroes of Eve, the people I meet every day in highsec - the hard working mission runners, the capable incursion runners, the manufacturers, the traders, even the diligent miners, and all the other PvE folks, express support for my positions, and would like to see a more orderly and humane highsec....where suicide ganking is rare, and punishments for it server. Those are the people I care about, not the suicide ganking nullsecers. |
Anslo
Scope Works
19191
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:59:32 -
[125] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:THERE IT WAS AGAIN OK we get it you're trolling Veers, it's getting old now bro.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Valkin Mordirc
347
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:00:08 -
[126] - Quote
I don't like him >.>
Just Srrysly
RECORD PLAYER
#DeleteTheWeak
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20995
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:00:24 -
[127] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:UnknownEnemyCombatant wrote:as a new player in eve. 45 days. i have had a very hard time. i have zero isk. and saved to buy a astero, that a person blew up as fast as it took to buy it. i now have no way to make money no ships and a general bad taste in my mouth. so i understand you point. as it is now ill prob just left my acct unsub since i cant buy anything or do anythin. i dont even have the isk to upgrade my clone, so yes eve was fun for a week. n it just seem like its full of the worst kind of people in the gaming community. WITNESS NOW, all ye who think the OP has a point. The above poster (who can't figure out how to play a game that most of us learned how to play years ago when it was much harsher and didn't give you so much free stuff in the tutorials) is what you what MORE of in this game. What he failed to mention was that he was in lowsec, in a completely untanked faction frigate.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19191
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:00:56 -
[128] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:I don't like him >.> m8
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10185
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:01:27 -
[129] - Quote
Ah, here we go.
The dregs of this game are the "heroes" of EVE Online.
The people who dox you, threaten your literal life, and spew vile sexual and racial epithets are the "heroes".
And you people wonder why the real players think you're insane?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:02:00 -
[130] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:THERE IT WAS AGAIN OK we get it you're trolling Veers, it's getting old now bro.
Don't interfere....he is engaging in elite PvP. |
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Anslo
Scope Works
19191
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:02:03 -
[131] - Quote
>Real players m8r, you posting on a gank alt saying this makes me giggle.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10185
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:05:25 -
[132] - Quote
Anslo wrote:>Real players m8r, you posting on a gank alt saying this makes me giggle.
This isn't a gank alt.
At least pretend to do your research before you open your mouth. Hell this character's killboard is awful, a consequence of being logi as often as he does, but still.
But since it's you, my expectations could not be any lower, so it doesn't surprise me.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
181
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:05:26 -
[133] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ah, here we go.
The dregs of this game are the "heroes" of EVE Online.
The people who dox you, threaten your literal life, and spew vile sexual and racial epithets are the "heroes".
And you people wonder why the real players think you're insane?
There you go again. Smearing PvE players as doxers and haters blah blah blah.
First thing is - vast majority of them are very nice people who would never do anything like that. Please go find some examples of me doing garbage like that.
Second thing is - the suicide gankers work hard to elicit this stuff. They love the "tears" and "rage," it's part of what motivates them. "Tear harvesting" is apparently a longstanding Eve tradition. If you don't want people to rage at you - DON'T DO THINGS THAT YOU KNOW WILL TRIGGER IT!
Amusing how in my time in Eve I've seen 0 doxxing, and a minimal amount of racial and sexual epithets. And most of the offenders have been pissed off people in low/null, not the friendly PvE players in highsec. |
Valkin Mordirc
350
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:05:58 -
[134] - Quote
Right right, Veers sorry for trolling,
I obviously don't know what PVP really is.
Like really. No Clue,
#DeleteTheWeak
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Anslo
Scope Works
19216
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:06:18 -
[135] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote:>Real players m8r, you posting on a gank alt saying this makes me giggle. This isn't a gank alt. At least pretend to do your research before you open your mouth. Hell this character's killboard is awful, a consequence of being logi as often as he does, but still. But since it's you, my expectations could not be any lower, so it doesn't surprise me. Why respond if so low?
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
243
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:06:36 -
[136] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:And yet, no one is "lauding" you lol. As I used to tell Dinsdale, so applies to you: The more you post the more people turn against what you want. Therefore, post more, it makes for a better game in the long run Sure the typical suicide ganking griefers that roam the forums aren't lauding me - I'll survive. Thankfully the real heroes of Eve, the people I meet every day in highsec - the hard working mission runners, the capable incursion runners, the manufacturers, the traders, even the diligent miners, and all the other PvE folks, express support for my positions, and would like to see a more orderly and humane highsec....where suicide ganking is rare, and punishments for it server. Those are the people I care about, not the suicide ganking nullsecers.
There are plenty of suicide gankers that live in high sec. If you think they are "suicide ganking nullsecers" on holiday, then you are deluded. Thankfully, CCP has stated that they believe suicide ganking to be an integral part of the game, here to stay, forever |
Anslo
Scope Works
19216
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:07:34 -
[137] - Quote
I can link killboards too.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2730
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:09:02 -
[138] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ah, here we go.
The dregs of this game are the "heroes" of EVE Online.
The people who dox you, threaten your literal life, and spew vile sexual and racial epithets are the "heroes".
And you people wonder why the real players think you're insane?
We need to call ripard teg these highesc shitlords are torturing us.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
|
Valkin Mordirc
350
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:09:04 -
[139] - Quote
Emmmmm...
My Eff. % is better! XD
#DeleteTheWeak
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10187
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:09:25 -
[140] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: There you go again. Smearing PvE players as doxers and haters blah blah blah.
I am not "smearing" anything. And there is a difference between a PvE player and a carebear. Namely that the PvE player actually counts as a real player.
Quote: First thing is - vast majority of them are very nice people who would never do anything like that. Please go find some examples of me doing garbage like that.
Lol. I have a big old pile of hatemail. Let's read an excerpt from one of the latest, shall we?
Ahem.
"when i find you, i'll raep your family".
Quote: Second thing is - the suicide gankers work hard to elicit this stuff.
No, we play the game. You on the other hand, seem to think that legitimate in game actions somehow permit people to flagrantly violate the game's EULA.
Quote: They love the "tears" and "rage," it's part of what motivates them. "Tear harvesting" is apparently a longstanding Eve tradition. If you don't want people to rage at you - DON'T DO THINGS THAT YOU KNOW WILL TRIGGER IT!
Take your tumblr trigger bullshit elsewhere. No one here cares about your PC crap.
Quote: Amusing how in my time in Eve I've seen 0 doxxing, and a minimal amount of racial and sexual epithets.
Your time in EVE amounts to jack. Just like you.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
|
Anslo
Scope Works
19216
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:10:18 -
[141] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: Emmmmm... My Eff. % is better! XD And my ranking is still higher.
GÿÉ Not REKT GÿÉ REKT Gÿæ North by NorthREKT
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20997
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:12:11 -
[142] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Sure the typical suicide ganking griefers that roam the forums aren't lauding me - I'll survive. Thankfully the real heroes of Eve, the people I meet every day in highsec - the hard working mission runners, the capable incursion runners, the manufacturers, the traders, even the diligent miners, and all the other PvE folks, express support for my positions I'm in the group of players that you say support your position, and I've yet to see anything from you that's worth getting behind, most of it is namby pamby, wishy washy, hand holding crap spouted by a fool with little or no knowledge of what he's talking about.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." is as true now as it was when it was originally posted by Abrazzar, especially as the majority of the groups that you claim to have the support of rarely post on the forums.
Quote: and would like to see a more orderly and humane highsec....where suicide ganking is rare, and punishments for it server. Those are the people I care about, not the suicide ganking nullsecers. You care for nothing except your ego.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Valkin Mordirc
350
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:13:36 -
[143] - Quote
Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Anslo
Scope Works
19216
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:14:33 -
[144] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages.
I work 8-9 hour days in pharma bruh, and I'm a CEO. Sup?
Come at me.
COME
@
ME
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Valkin Mordirc
351
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:16:52 -
[145] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages. I work 8-9 hour days in pharma bruh, and I'm a CEO. Sup? Come at me. COME @ ME
MAn, Ill rec you like I did you mum last nite.
ZZZzzzZ1v1 brah, COD4 M16 only. ZZZzzzZZZz
#DeleteTheWeak
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2736
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:17:31 -
[146] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages. I work 8-9 hour days in pharma bruh, and I'm a CEO. Sup? Come at me. COME @ ME
7/11 does not count as pharma.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10192
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:18:14 -
[147] - Quote
I too, can lie about my real life accomplishments.
But I did do something involving outer space and hydraulic pistons this morning. Thank goodness I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express the other night.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Anslo
Scope Works
19233
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:18:31 -
[148] - Quote
#360ALLSCOPEDUNKT
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Anslo
Scope Works
19233
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:19:21 -
[149] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages. I work 8-9 hour days in pharma bruh, and I'm a CEO. Sup? Come at me. COME @ ME 7/11 does not count as pharma.
Are you done evacuating Delve?
Also 7/11's don't even have a pharmacy m8r.
EDIT: Poste above a bit edited. CEO of an EVE CORP, not an IRL Corp. If I was an IRL CEO I wouldn't be playing Eve. I'd be too busy swagging on nerds with money.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6014
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:20:46 -
[150] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages. I work 8-9 hour days in pharma bruh, and I'm a CEO. Sup? Come at me. COME @ ME MAn, Ill rec you like I did you mum last nite. ZZZzzzZ1v1 brah, COD4 M16 only. ZZZzzzZZZz **** ye both, i have twins.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4077
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:21:17 -
[151] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Also 7/11's don't even have a pharmacy m8r. there's a dude out the back named sid with a backpack full of pharmaceuticals |
Valkin Mordirc
351
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:21:40 -
[152] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I too, can lie about my real life accomplishments.
But I did do something involving outer space and hydraulic pistons this morning. Thank goodness I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express the other night.
You think work with teenagers as an accomplishment?
Did you catch the Hormonal part? Like for the love of god if I have to talk to two more idiots about 'work relationships" and why it's not a good idea to call each other cunts.
Imma stab a *****.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2736
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:22:12 -
[153] - Quote
Anslo wrote:La Nariz wrote:Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages. I work 8-9 hour days in pharma bruh, and I'm a CEO. Sup? Come at me. COME @ ME 7/11 does not count as pharma. Are you done evacuating Delve? Also 7/11's don't even have a pharmacy m8r.
Then why are you claiming to work in a pharmacy?
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19233
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:23:08 -
[154] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages. I work 8-9 hour days in pharma bruh, and I'm a CEO. Sup? Come at me. COME @ ME MAn, Ill rec you like I did you mum last nite. ZZZzzzZ1v1 brah, COD4 M16 only. ZZZzzzZZZz **** ye both, i have twins.
My condolences jesus christ.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10192
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:23:59 -
[155] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: You think work with teenagers as an accomplishment?
I used to work for a college. Resisting the urge to kill them in their sleep is an accomplishment, yes.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21000
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:23:59 -
[156] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Anslo wrote: Also 7/11's don't even have a pharmacy m8r.
Then why are you claiming to work in a pharmacy? I think UAE answered that, Anslo is Sid
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Anslo
Scope Works
19233
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:24:49 -
[157] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Anslo wrote:La Nariz wrote:Anslo wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Aye,
I work a ten hour job. =S Sucks trying to find time to play at points.
Lack of sleep+EVEGroggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages
Or Sleep+ kinda Groggily trying to work surrounded by hormonal teenages. I work 8-9 hour days in pharma bruh, and I'm a CEO. Sup? Come at me. COME @ ME 7/11 does not count as pharma. Are you done evacuating Delve? Also 7/11's don't even have a pharmacy m8r. Then why are you claiming to work in a pharmacy?
In pharma=/=in a pharmacy
It means in the pharma industry, protecting human test subjects and such.
Also Grr Goons, fire sale lol, etc.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
67
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:27:18 -
[158] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
if you cant deal with or operate under war dec (which should be an excellent opportunity to teach newbies about war mechanics and ambush avoidance ) then why the hell are you taking newbies in. if you cant defend them , or enable them to do so themselvs then how are they better off in your corp than in an npc one?
The problem here (im still reading the number of posts) is that even when you try to help newbies....a lot of them get into this miniing kick...meaning the ISK is good. Alot of them make excuses or flat out refuse to mission, when your trying to teach the importance of having standings for later on. Alot of them refuse to train up into ships even when you give them and the fits for free to get them started for roaming. Alot of them even when your being nice and patient get upset at even you when you try to explain what happened and begin to reiterate how to avoid the scam they just lost hundreds of millons on.
Some like to talk your ear off about spreadsheets and re-creating the wheel instead of using the links of tools already used by a majority of the community. Some argue with you on the ways markets work at the basic levels.
Then you have those....that whine and demand corp tax be 0% when they dont even mission anyway. Expect you to refine their minerals for free and let them have them despite Corp buy back programs. Expect the RIG SRP to always be there even when they dont donate salvage, or when offere on a per ship basis they want more than they should get....and asked why simply to see what they are thinking to help them they get uppity when you know the ship they are trying to fit for is not even trained up to sit in yet.
Wardecs.....where to start?
Communications: Alliance, Corp, group chats....and TS. Its important especially if a newb is trying to make friends to be active in these things. Not to mention purposes of safety. Many of them just simply dont log into TS for reasons....and those same never use the chats either till they get killed....and they die because you never really know what they are doing.
AFK/Autopilot: During a Wardec? are you crazy? then you get a mail because it happened for SRP....after the first time you watch them....2nd time you reprimand them....3rd time you cut them off from SRP and suddenly your a monster....DOCK UP but you can only repeat yourself so many times.
Activity Level: Ok you have some newer ones and you have a lot of older ones....a big wardec comes your way...they beg you to let them fight....so you say ok what can you fly....the answer "uhm my barge and a frigate or destroyer" so you pull out fits and post them and eventually you find you can make a slightly effective cheap kitchen sink fleet doctrine. When its go time...they suddenly log into TS, first for some.....and beg you to surreneder, refuse to log in game.....chat in your ear when combat ops are going on.....and eventually your forced to ask "Why do you play this game? Why do you become part of a group but are only a liability? Wouldnt WOW, STO, ESO, Star WARS be more your style?" you cant surrender, it wont be accepted, you have pocos or some other reason a surrender wouldnt work. So you do what i did....you pull the plug on the alliance and kick everyone out and everyone that refused to log in out of your corp as well. They get mad....so what...especially those that have been around for 6 months or more....I kept saying none of us deserve what we have if we are not willing to defend it.
New players coming to EvE....imho only 1 of 10 in most cases is even worth bothering with let alone spending time on. They dont want to play the game many of us have been playing for years....they want to come in with misconcieved premonitions from other games and expect hand outs.....EVE is harsh...you can lose stuff permanently...its like a bike or horse though....if you fall off are you gonna cry? or you gonna get up, dust yourself off, and try again till you master that pony? IF they cant....then we dont need them. We need the players that want to group up and be active, we need the players that can a beating and keep on ticking....its a frame of mind...do you want to win? well in what category...because Vets can teach you how. EvE is a total pvp game no matter if its PVE content or not....your still competeting against someone. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10194
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:30:28 -
[159] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote: The problem here (im still reading the number of posts) is that even when you try to help newbies....a lot of them get into this miniing kick...meaning the ISK is good.
The isk is not good. It's just zero effort. Which is what a lot of this generation that has never completed Battletoads seems to think gaming should be like.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2737
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:33:03 -
[160] - Quote
Keep on whinging Anslo it will work one of these times.
E: James315 you need to add "has an important RL job to miner bingo."
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
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|
Valkin Mordirc
353
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:33:32 -
[161] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:A Wall of Text that is interesting
I feel for you bro. I tried to work with a group of newbies.
Most of them just argued with me and told me I didn't know what I was talking about.
As for the Mining thing. Your right, most people seem to think mining is the easiest way to make money at the start. Which is sad because they do get into a sink, where they think that nothing will ever happen that awesome. Just because they are not shown how epic EVE really can be.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Anslo
Scope Works
19272
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:34:56 -
[162] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Keep on whinging Anslo it will work one of these times.
E: James315 you need to add "has an important RL job to miner bingo." Nice counter.
Also, everyone can tell you got a nose job. Stop pretending you didn't.
#dunkt
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
67
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:37:27 -
[163] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: The thing for me is that the way Eve itself is shaped as a game goes against the fundamental moralities we have as a society and in a sense goes against our own humanity itself. And because of that it creates something that works against the ideals we have been brought up with. Its this conflict of natures that turns off so many people to Eve imo, as not everyone can handle having their entire way of being thrown around and turned upside down. The few that can; stay, and the even fewer thrive in that sort of a system.
To me its this disconnect with the world around us that has been the reason that Eves numbers stay so low. As the darkness thats within the human soul is evident in everyday life, media tells us daily of the atrocities committed world wide. We shudder and think how horrible it is even if it hasnt happened directly to us but more importantly we believe that the unjust, evil people will be punished. In Eve there is none of that punishment or justice happening. The game itself is built to allow freely what societies worldwide try to remove from within its ranks.
That is imo what makes Eve what it is and what makes it so unique in the gaming world. Close and connects to my earlier post - there are no (completely insufficient) consequences in EVE. Players play EVE as they would conduct RL, if RL had the same 'sandbox' as EVE. What's particularly wrong with EVE - especially now - is that the Predator v Prey ratio is so skewed. Make EVE a bit more of a simulation and less gamey and more people may wish to play and believe they have a chance - taking the risk because indeed EVE <> RL. More actual players means more potential prey to support the predator population. Goodness, we have to eventually leave this little planet of ours - a space-based game that actually encouraged that interest, in the most realistic way possible, would help the entire human race! -> EVE2....... EVE would then be the most comprehensive Beta Test ever run. I wonder how many new players would actually be interested if EVE were actually to restart?
I would not want a restart. Some problems I think can be alleviated if a player changes his perspective. For Example: EvE is Sins of the Solar Empire except for a few things...... All those ships, buildings, fighters, minerals, cash..... In Eve they are the ships, POS, outposts, minerals/rocks, modules, guns, cash, etc etc owned by some player. Think of EvE in these terms....and you find.......
EvE is a wargame, where do you fit in? Do you have the social skills to create an effective Faction (Corp/alliance) that can vie with others in your race to be on top? If you do....do those under your leadership perform to be something greater than their individual selves? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6016
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:40:11 -
[164] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:a good post this is why you need to shoot the newbies in the face first , then show them the ways
that initial explosion goes a long way in weeding out those worth your time.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Valkin Mordirc
353
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:42:23 -
[165] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Max Deveron wrote:a good post this is why you need to shoot the newbies in the face first , then show them the ways that initial explosion goes a long way in weeding out those worth your time.
Asides from me and two other members of my corp, all who happen to be the 'originals', That is how we get members.
Osmosis.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
182
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:43:48 -
[166] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Max Deveron wrote:a good post this is why you need to shoot the newbies in the face first , then show them the ways that initial explosion goes a long way in weeding out those worth your time.
Because nothing says welcome to Eve like having your ship blow up and going straight into bankruptcy. CCP should probably just abolish rookie systems and make CONCORD not respond to aggression against players under a month old. That would definitely bolster the NPE *eyeroll*. |
Valkin Mordirc
353
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:45:03 -
[167] - Quote
broken record wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Max Deveron wrote:a good post this is why you need to shoot the newbies in the face first , then show them the ways that initial explosion goes a long way in weeding out those worth your time. Because nothing says welcome to Eve like having your ship blow up and going straight into bankruptcy. CCP should probably just abolish rookie systems and make CONCORD not respond to aggression against players under a month old. That would definitely bolster the NPE *eyeroll*.
He said it would keep the GOOD players.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10198
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:49:21 -
[168] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Max Deveron wrote:a good post this is why you need to shoot the newbies in the face first , then show them the ways that initial explosion goes a long way in weeding out those worth your time. Because nothing says welcome to Eve like having your ship blow up and going straight into bankruptcy. CCP should probably just abolish rookie systems and make CONCORD not respond to aggression against players under a month old. That would definitely bolster the NPE *eyeroll*.
You shoot people to see whether or not they flip out on you when their space pixels explode.
If they do, then they aren't the kind of people you want to hang out with anyway, they are better of quitting o being exiled to an NPC corp with the rest of the rejects from the Island of Misfit Toys. People like that are only good for being destroyed for the amusement of others, like destructible terrain.
It's an excellent means to weed out the bad apples.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
67
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:52:16 -
[169] - Quote
UnknownEnemyCombatant wrote:as a new player in eve. 45 days. i have had a very hard time. i have zero isk. and saved to buy a astero, that a person blew up as fast as it took to buy it. i now have no way to make money no ships and a general bad taste in my mouth. so i understand you point. as it is now ill prob just left my acct unsub since i cant buy anything or do anythin. i dont even have the isk to upgrade my clone, so yes eve was fun for a week. n it just seem like its full of the worst kind of people in the gaming community.
In case your still around....get a cheap ship...go missioning....go mining....read up on those tactics for stealing loot from CODE. ganking freighters....sell that **** and your golden.
Sheesh some give up to easily...and usually because they try to play out of their league....learn to crawl before you try to walk, learn to walk before you run. |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
20
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:52:27 -
[170] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Max Deveron wrote:a good post this is why you need to shoot the newbies in the face first , then show them the ways that initial explosion goes a long way in weeding out those worth your time. Because nothing says welcome to Eve like having your ship blow up and going straight into bankruptcy. CCP should probably just abolish rookie systems and make CONCORD not respond to aggression against players under a month old. That would definitely bolster the NPE *eyeroll*. You shoot people to see whether or not they flip out on you when their space pixels explode. If they do, then they aren't the kind of people you want to hang out with anyway, they are better of quitting o being exiled to an NPC corp with the rest of the rejects from the Island of Misfit Toys. People like that are only good for being destroyed for the amusement of others, like destructible terrain. It's an excellent means to weed out the bad apples.
I never flip out... you think you could use me?
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
20
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:54:07 -
[171] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:UnknownEnemyCombatant wrote:as a new player in eve. 45 days. i have had a very hard time. i have zero isk. and saved to buy a astero, that a person blew up as fast as it took to buy it. i now have no way to make money no ships and a general bad taste in my mouth. so i understand you point. as it is now ill prob just left my acct unsub since i cant buy anything or do anythin. i dont even have the isk to upgrade my clone, so yes eve was fun for a week. n it just seem like its full of the worst kind of people in the gaming community. In case your still around....get a cheap ship...go missioning....go mining....read up on those tactics for stealing loot from CODE. ganking freighters....sell that **** and your golden. Sheesh some give up to easily...and usually because they try to play out of their league....learn to crawl before you try to walk, learn to walk before you run.
Yes.... try mining first
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Valkin Mordirc
355
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:54:08 -
[172] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
I never flip out... you think you could use me?
If your willing to learn, and are not annoying. I'd take you.
However I dont think you would like our playstyle.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Renegade Heart
Smack My Ship Up
244
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:54:16 -
[173] - Quote
Tempted to start asking people I gank if they wanna join my corp and become gankers, and offer them free ships to gank in |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10198
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:54:51 -
[174] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Tempted to start asking people I gank if they wanna join my corp and become gankers, and offer them free ships to gank in
About a third of CODE started out that way.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6017
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:55:16 -
[175] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Max Deveron wrote:a good post this is why you need to shoot the newbies in the face first , then show them the ways that initial explosion goes a long way in weeding out those worth your time. Because nothing says welcome to Eve like having your ship blow up and going straight into bankruptcy. CCP should probably just abolish rookie systems and make CONCORD not respond to aggression against players under a month old. That would definitely bolster the NPE *eyeroll*. well if you act like an entitled bellend then yeah, that's all you get.
its something of a litmus test, display a rational, adjusted attitude = get advice , links to helpful resources, isk to soften the blow(actually profit if cool about it)
sperg threats insults and accusations of a malformed psyche = get slagged mercilessly
sperg threats insults and accusations of a malformed psyche on the forums = get publicly humiliated and possibly wardeced
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Arec Bardwin
1567
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:55:20 -
[176] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote: Aeon Plex > im comin outside Kayden Drake > your gonna use the garmur right?
Made my day I can almost see this basement dwelling individual salivating in anticipation of a free Garmur kill mail...
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
21
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:57:43 -
[177] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:
I never flip out... you think you could use me?
If your willing to learn, and are not annoying. I'd take you. However I dont think you would like our playstyle.
Hehehe... man... ill have you swinging from the rafters in two days flat...
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
69
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:57:59 -
[178] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:And yet, no one is "lauding" you lol. As I used to tell Dinsdale, so applies to you: The more you post the more people turn against what you want. Therefore, post more, it makes for a better game in the long run Sure the typical suicide ganking griefers that roam the forums aren't lauding me - I'll survive. Thankfully the real heroes of Eve, the people I meet every day in highsec - the hard working mission runners, the capable incursion runners, the manufacturers, the traders, even the diligent miners, and all the other PvE folks, express support for my positions, and would like to see a more orderly and humane highsec....where suicide ganking is rare, and punishments for it server. Those are the people I care about, not the suicide ganking nullsecers.
I do not support your position...I do not support full out ganking either. IMO though....ganking is at times very necessaryas the only advent of approach because said target is in an NPC corp. Wardecs are ncessary for this same reason also.
Doesnt matter if your trying to control a market, create a market....if competition is in your way or seemingly about to threaten you position.....then by any tool necessary if you have the means it is quite acceptable to 100% completely obliterate it. |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
21
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:59:52 -
[179] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:Aeon Plex wrote: Aeon Plex > im comin outside Kayden Drake > your gonna use the garmur right?
Made my day I can almost see this basement dwelling individual salivating in anticipation of a free Garmur kill mail...
Awesome isn't it... if you look really carefully (squint your eyes a bit) you can even see the knife just before it goes in Aeon's back.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
183
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:00:47 -
[180] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Max Deveron wrote:a good post this is why you need to shoot the newbies in the face first , then show them the ways that initial explosion goes a long way in weeding out those worth your time. Because nothing says welcome to Eve like having your ship blow up and going straight into bankruptcy. CCP should probably just abolish rookie systems and make CONCORD not respond to aggression against players under a month old. That would definitely bolster the NPE *eyeroll*. well if you act like an entitled bellend then yeah, that's all you get. its something of a litmus test, display a rational, adjusted attitude = get advice , links to helpful resources, isk to soften the blow(actually profit if cool about it) sperg threats insults and accusations of a malformed psyche = get slagged mercilessly sperg threats insults and accusations of a malformed psyche on the forums = get publicly humiliated and possibly wardeced
Oh dear, should I expect a wardecc? I'm terrified. You might find out that it's not always as easy as blowing up week old players in their ventures. Elite PvP and all. |
|
Valkin Mordirc
358
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:03:22 -
[181] - Quote
Broken Recode wrote:
Oh dear, should I expect a wardecc? I'm terrified. You might find out that it's not always as easy as blowing up week old players in their ventures. Elite PvP and all.
Elite PVP
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21004
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:06:25 -
[182] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Oh dear, should I expect a wardecc? I'm terrified. You might find out that it's not always as easy as blowing up week old players in their ventures. Elite PvP and all. What are you going to do, close corp and reform it like every other time you've been wardecced?
All mouth, no trousers, nothing new there.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
145
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:07:33 -
[183] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap
Two year old RvB alt, with a bio that starts with "Ruthless", trying to duel to hull in Jita... cries newbie in GD... 9 pages in 9 hours.
10/10. |
Valkin Mordirc
358
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:09:01 -
[184] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap
Two year old RvB alt, with a bio that starts with "Ruthless", trying to duel to hull in Jita... cries newbie in GD... 9 pages in 9 hours. 10/10.
To be fair there waaas a fair bit of fuckery going on around the 6-8 pages.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
234
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:12:01 -
[185] - Quote
Interesting read OP. Definitely some valid points.
"It's just a game right? Anything goes in the end. If you want to kill you kill, If you want to steal you steal. A lot of people think like that, more than I care to know, and in a way I get it. Even I used to think like that...but none of it's true. In a virtual world, there are things you have to protect because it's a virtual world. If you give into your impulses in here, it's gonna change who you are in the real world. The player and the character are one in the same."
-Kirito [SAO] |
Valkin Mordirc
358
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:14:16 -
[186] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Interesting read OP. Definitely some valid points.
"It's just a game right? Anything goes in the end. If you want to kill you kill, If you want to steal you steal. A lot of people think like that, more than I care to know, and in a way I get it. Even I used to think like that...but none of it's true. In a virtual world, there are things you have to protect because it's a virtual world. If you give into your impulses in here, it's gonna change who you are in the real world. The player and the character are one in the same."
-Kirito [SAO]
He was stuck in a world where pking would actually kill the player. XD
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
21
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:16:51 -
[187] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap
Two year old RvB alt, with a bio that starts with "Ruthless", trying to duel to hull in Jita... cries newbie in GD... 9 pages in 9 hours. 10/10.
Cries FOR newbies .... theres a difference.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:17:41 -
[188] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Barton Breau wrote:
That you compare a service where people either invest their time or money to some stereotypical chat room behavior is just a cherry on top, maybe that would illustrate why so few companies embark on the bold journey of ffa pvp with loosing stuff.
This is important, because their are other games. I play a few of them. And you are right, very few companies do what CCP does. This brings to my mind the question: Since you know why few other companies do this, why give your money and time to a company that does if you don't like the resulting community? If i hated community behavior or the games rule set so much, I personally wouldn't be here. Yet you have a forum full of griping folk who have major problems with, well, everything, but yet they are still here. That's what I don't understand.
Things are rarely simple and clear cut, even if we would like them to be when using sweeping terms like "community", i suppose you can like the game while disliking some of the people and disagreeing on the mechanics that enable or even encourage them to behave in a way you find annoying.
Just saying. |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
234
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:21:59 -
[189] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:Interesting read OP. Definitely some valid points.
"It's just a game right? Anything goes in the end. If you want to kill you kill, If you want to steal you steal. A lot of people think like that, more than I care to know, and in a way I get it. Even I used to think like that...but none of it's true. In a virtual world, there are things you have to protect because it's a virtual world. If you give into your impulses in here, it's gonna change who you are in the real world. The player and the character are one in the same."
-Kirito [SAO] He was stuck in a world where pking would actually kill the player. XD
Not when he said that he wasn't....
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8688
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:25:27 -
[190] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote: Things are rarely simple and clear cut, even if we would like them to be when using sweeping terms like "community", i suppose you can like the game while disliking some of the people and disagreeing on the mechanics that enable or even encourage them to behave in a way you find annoying.
Just saying.
EVE has been advertised for 11 years as a harsh , cold, cutthroat game world. Then 'some people' install it, get an account and play it, then complain on the forums that people are playing in a harsh, cold, cutthroat manner.
WTF mate?
In what universe does this make the least bit of sense? It's like being a Vegan, KNOWING McDonald's Chicken McNuggets are made from meat (well, mostly corn but some meat), ordering them anyways then getting ticked off at the fact that you just ate a meat product.
|
|
Valkin Mordirc
360
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:27:18 -
[191] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:Interesting read OP. Definitely some valid points.
"It's just a game right? Anything goes in the end. If you want to kill you kill, If you want to steal you steal. A lot of people think like that, more than I care to know, and in a way I get it. Even I used to think like that...but none of it's true. In a virtual world, there are things you have to protect because it's a virtual world. If you give into your impulses in here, it's gonna change who you are in the real world. The player and the character are one in the same."
-Kirito [SAO] He was stuck in a world where pking would actually kill the player. XD Not when he said that he wasn't....
Ah well...
I JUST FINISHED SEASON 2 I CAN'T REMEMBER EVERYTHING. XD
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Anslo
Scope Works
19304
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:27:40 -
[192] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Oh dear, should I expect a wardecc? I'm terrified. You might find out that it's not always as easy as blowing up week old players in their ventures. Elite PvP and all. What are you going to do, close corp and reform it like every other time you've been wardecced? All mouth, no trousers, nothing new there. Same could be said if tear collectors who wanted to stop me. Didn't work to well for em. Just saying. Goes both ways.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10202
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:29:37 -
[193] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Barton Breau wrote: Things are rarely simple and clear cut, even if we would like them to be when using sweeping terms like "community", i suppose you can like the game while disliking some of the people and disagreeing on the mechanics that enable or even encourage them to behave in a way you find annoying.
Just saying.
EVE has been advertised for 11 years as a harsh , cold, cutthroat game world. Then 'some people' install it, get an account and play it, then complain on the forums that people are playing in a harsh, cold, cutthroat manner. WTF mate? In what universe does this make the least bit of sense? It's like being a Vegan, KNOWING McDonald's Chicken McNuggets are made from meat (well, mostly corn but some meat), ordering them anyways then getting ticked off at the fact that you just ate a meat product.
Ah, Vegan. The single most unreasonable religion.
You know I heard at work the other day that science has now linked a Vegetarian diet to a lower sperm count? So it literally does make you less of a man.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
98
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:34:19 -
[194] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Black Pedro wrote:
All of this is by design. Eve is suppose to be a dark dystopia where there is no real punishment for anti-social conduct beyond what other players can provide.
Players are suppose to go down the wrong path. Players are not expected to choose good over evil. Players have the choice to do what they want - build or destroy. It is a competitive PvP game from its core.
None of this means the people playing this game are evil - it is after all just a game.
This really isn't true. Highsec is designed with an infallible police force that wipes out criminals, no matter how powerful they are. Your description may be accurate for nullsec, but certainly not for highsec.
No, this is quite true. CONCORD is one of the balance mechanisms that keeps gankers in check by imposing a significant cost on a ganker - in this case loss of a ship. This means a ganker cannot use use a ship more costly than their opponents, and in practice it has to be much cheaper if they hope to make a profit by looting drops.
As you have said in this thread the coding is arbitrary - if CCP wanted to they could increase CONCORD response times to 1 second everywhere in highsec or even lock out weapons fire totally. But they haven't because criminal highsec combat is part of the design specification of Eve. My description is completely accurate - CCP's design for highsec explicitly allows the possibility of criminal highsec player vs. player engagement, and the possibility for this scales with decreasing security status through the mechanism of CONCORD response time.
You may not like this, and can argue for CCP to change this so you and your PvE-focused friends can have complete safety in highsec, but that doesn't change the fact that you are playing a game that was explicitly designed to foster PvP engagements in all parts of New Eden, including high security space. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8692
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:34:59 -
[195] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Barton Breau wrote: Things are rarely simple and clear cut, even if we would like them to be when using sweeping terms like "community", i suppose you can like the game while disliking some of the people and disagreeing on the mechanics that enable or even encourage them to behave in a way you find annoying.
Just saying.
EVE has been advertised for 11 years as a harsh , cold, cutthroat game world. Then 'some people' install it, get an account and play it, then complain on the forums that people are playing in a harsh, cold, cutthroat manner. WTF mate? In what universe does this make the least bit of sense? It's like being a Vegan, KNOWING McDonald's Chicken McNuggets are made from meat (well, mostly corn but some meat), ordering them anyways then getting ticked off at the fact that you just ate a meat product. Ah, Vegan. The single most unreasonable religion. You know I heard at work the other day that science has now linked a Vegetarian diet to a lower sperm count? So it literally does make you less of a man.
I can't hear you of the sound of the Steak and Shrimp I'm eating. The meal came with a side salad, but i traded it for more shimp
|
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
145
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:35:17 -
[196] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap
Two year old RvB alt, with a bio that starts with "Ruthless", trying to duel to hull in Jita... cries newbie in GD... 9 pages in 9 hours. 10/10. Cries FOR newbies .... theres a difference. This is not an example of "a newbie being treated like crap". He does not qualify as one.
In the previous sentence to the above quote he says:
Quote:I've met some really amazing people in EVE, people that have given me ships, people that have taught me things about the game, and people that have podded me, and then given me the money I would need to get my ship back 10x.
He fails to so much as establish a case of newbies being treated like crap in the first place. Let alone presenting any kind of data to support a statement so bold as to say the majority of.
He is not crying for anything, just crying. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21005
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:35:47 -
[197] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ah, Vegan. The single most unreasonable religion.
You know I heard at work the other day that science has now linked a Vegetarian diet to a lower sperm count? So it literally does make you less of a man. If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat?
I have no problem with vegetarians or vegans, until they start preaching at me or criticising me for not believing as they do, that gets them a rapid Foxtrot Oscar, the same goes for the religious types.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
22
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:37:24 -
[198] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Barton Breau wrote: Things are rarely simple and clear cut, even if we would like them to be when using sweeping terms like "community", i suppose you can like the game while disliking some of the people and disagreeing on the mechanics that enable or even encourage them to behave in a way you find annoying.
Just saying.
EVE has been advertised for 11 years as a harsh , cold, cutthroat game world. Then 'some people' install it, get an account and play it, then complain on the forums that people are playing in a harsh, cold, cutthroat manner. WTF mate? In what universe does this make the least bit of sense? It's like being a Vegan, KNOWING McDonald's Chicken McNuggets are made from meat (well, mostly corn but some meat), ordering them anyways then getting ticked off at the fact that you just ate a meat product.
If they advertise you should jump in the river after every game session you do that too?
If i play checkers with my wife and i knock her teeth out everytime i get a bit overenthousiastic ... that would drastically shorten my marriage.
And i have a great marriage!
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8693
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:42:46 -
[199] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
If they advertise you should jump in the river after every game session you do that too?
Would you PAY someone for the privilege of jumping int he river? That's what is happening here people are PAYING to play a cold harsh game while complaining that the game is cold and harsh.
Quote: If i play checkers with my wife and i knock her teeth out everytime i get a bit overenthousiastic ... that would drastically shorten my marriage.
And i have a great marriage!
If you and your wife went to "MMA couple's counseling" where you fight it out to resolve your differences, would you then complain about all teh bruises you got? Wouldn't the correct answer be "don't go to freaking MMA marriage counselling"?
That is the point. Checkers isn't an MMO made by crazy people for ruthless people. EVE is. Nothing wrong with not liking that kind of game....unless you keep paying for it. |
Valkin Mordirc
360
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:43:25 -
[200] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Barton Breau wrote: Things are rarely simple and clear cut, even if we would like them to be when using sweeping terms like "community", i suppose you can like the game while disliking some of the people and disagreeing on the mechanics that enable or even encourage them to behave in a way you find annoying.
Just saying.
EVE has been advertised for 11 years as a harsh , cold, cutthroat game world. Then 'some people' install it, get an account and play it, then complain on the forums that people are playing in a harsh, cold, cutthroat manner. WTF mate? In what universe does this make the least bit of sense? It's like being a Vegan, KNOWING McDonald's Chicken McNuggets are made from meat (well, mostly corn but some meat), ordering them anyways then getting ticked off at the fact that you just ate a meat product. If they advertise you should jump in the river after every game session you do that too? If i play checkers with my wife and i knock her teeth out everytime i get a bit overenthousiastic ... that would drastically shorten my marriage. And i have a great marriage!
You should have a great marriage, and I hope it stays great.
However again, Real Life, and Video games, are different.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21012
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:44:38 -
[201] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:If i play checkers with my wife and i knock her teeth out everytime i get a bit overenthousiastic ... that would drastically shorten my marriage. Knocking your wife's teeth out when you get overenthusiastic isn't a valid move in checkers, and is likely to end up in you having your balls removed from your throat after she forcibly relocates them there, with her foot.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6025
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:46:42 -
[202] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:
If they advertise you should jump in the river after every game session you do that too?
If i play checkers with my wife and i knock her teeth out everytime i get a bit overenthousiastic ... that would drastically shorten my marriage.
And i have a great marriage!
What in the name of hell does this have to do with what Jen or anyone else in the thread has said.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1190
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:47:58 -
[203] - Quote
Was wondering why posts were talking about real-life violence and then realized this was a carebear thread. Carebears always go there.
CCP has no sense of humour.
|
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
325
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:50:16 -
[204] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time.
Over the last month, the price of the Garmur has dropped drastically. This is awesome as I've been waiting to get one!
So last night I got a Garmur. Looked up fits and made one I liked. I took it out for a spin and the second I undocked from jita every single person wanted a duel. I was finally hailed to convo by a 9 year old character asking if I wanted to duel.
"Sure I said, but only to hull, as I just bought this and I haven't had a proper fight in it yet."
They agreed, more than once, and I was very very clear. But were busy, and kept putting off he fight, so I logged for the night.
Tonight I jump on, and a few minutes later I'm hailed again by this 9 yr old character. They ask if I would like to duel to hull, and I say sure!
We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Now you may say to yourself, "well, duh! Next time don't trust anyone in EVE!"
but honestly that's what he said, so don't be an idiot.
Let's be clear. Losing an 80 mil ISK ship isn't going to bankrupt me or ruin my experience in EVE.
I can see it ruining someone else's experience though, and that's what I want to express. This person had nothing to gain, not even a killmail from killing my Garmur. Doing this kind of thing, is what makes people leave this game. And maybe that's what someone like him wants.
If it had been a fair fight and he had kept going past hull, I wouldn't have minded all that much, but there was no honor, and no sportsmanship at all. In the end, I really just ended up feeling sorry for this guy as a human being.
I've met some really amazing people in EVE, people that have given me ships, people that have taught me things about the game, and people that have podded me, and then given me the money I would need to get my ship back 10x.
Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
I know myself, that I rarely see any new characters anymore. Everyone I see is almost 10 years old. And this is why. If a 9 year old character has nothing better to do, that troll new characters, and under the sad guise of 'don't trust anyone in EVE' then I'm really not sure that I can see a long term investment in this game is something I want to consider.
Aeon Plex > o7 Kayden Drake > morning!? Aeon Plex > night for meeeee Kayden Drake > want to do a practice duel now? Aeon Plex > yes!! Aeon Plex > im comin outside Kayden Drake > your gonna use the garmur right? Aeon Plex > yeah :-) Aeon Plex > I haven't been in a fuight with it yet Kayden Drake > ok one minute Aeon Plex > lemme know :-) Aeon Plex > do you play at work or somethin'? Kayden Drake > yeh Aeon Plex > hee hee Aeon Plex > ok lemme know. I'm gonna have cig Aeon Plex > be back on in about 5? Kayden Drake > take your time Aeon Plex > and we shall battle!! ;-) Kayden Drake > hey back yet? Aeon Plex > I'm back Aeon Plex > lemme know when u are ready!! :-) Kayden Drake > can e plz practice duel at a planet, its too busy outside 4-4 Aeon Plex > sure Kayden Drake > ok, planet 1 Aeon Plex > I'll meet u there! Kayden Drake > i fit out this stupid cruiser randomly Kayden Drake > can i test my longpopng on you? just to see how it works Aeon Plex > sure! Kayden Drake > come cloer first, your not in point range Kayden Drake > closer* Aeon Plex > what is the point range on that? Kayden Drake > ROfl, your still moving away Kayden Drake > thats the thing i'm not sure Kayden Drake > thats what i want to test Aeon Plex > ok I'll stay still :-) so u can check Kayden Drake > thx Aeon Plex > LoL Aeon Plex > um.. (he blinks off)
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
Why do you think he got no killmail by killing you? Do you think CCP withholds killmails for "unfair" kills?
Also I see new characters all the time, I've no idea why you're so unlucky in finding them. Well, in the future I suggest hitting escape and switching duels off to spare you more pain. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10206
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:52:12 -
[205] - Quote
Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6025
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:53:00 -
[206] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Was wondering why posts were talking about real-life violence and then realized this was a carebear thread. Carebears always go there. Shockingly quickly As well.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
22
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:53:12 -
[207] - Quote
Vald Tegor wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:Vald Tegor wrote:Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap
Two year old RvB alt, with a bio that starts with "Ruthless", trying to duel to hull in Jita... cries newbie in GD... 9 pages in 9 hours. 10/10. Cries FOR newbies .... theres a difference. This is not an example of "a newbie being treated like crap". He does not qualify as one. In the previous sentence to the above quote he says: Quote:I've met some really amazing people in EVE, people that have given me ships, people that have taught me things about the game, and people that have podded me, and then given me the money I would need to get my ship back 10x. He fails to so much as establish a case of newbies being treated like crap in the first place. Let alone presenting any kind of data to support a statement so bold as to say the majority of. He is not crying for anything, just crying.
Crying for a just cause imo ... seriously.
Im not even gonna try to unravel the wordtwisting... you ignore everything everyone else says and come in with a new twist at post #196.
All im saying is to stop hurting eachother for the sake of hurting.... HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND ?
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6025
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:54:29 -
[208] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game? No actually, I'd rather not know.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21012
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:54:54 -
[209] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Some Rando wrote:Was wondering why posts were talking about real-life violence and then realized this was a carebear thread. Carebears always go there. Shockingly quickly As well. It's almost as if they can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.....
There's several words for that, they can generally be found in various medical tomes under the heading mental illness.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1190
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:55:12 -
[210] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:All im saying is to stop hurting eachother for the sake of hurting.... HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND ?
No one's hurting anyone; this is a video game. How hard is THAT to understand?
CCP has no sense of humour.
|
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
183
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:55:36 -
[211] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game? No actually, I'd rather not know.
As usual it's the "elite PvP" folks who are always obsessing over these things. |
Anslo
Scope Works
19305
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:58:09 -
[212] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Anslo wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Oh dear, should I expect a wardecc? I'm terrified. You might find out that it's not always as easy as blowing up week old players in their ventures. Elite PvP and all. What are you going to do, close corp and reform it like every other time you've been wardecced? All mouth, no trousers, nothing new there. Same could be said if tear collectors who wanted to stop me. Didn't work to well for em. Just saying. Goes both ways. Agreed, people shouldn't make promises that they're not prepared to follow up on. Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ah, Vegan. The single most unreasonable religion.
You know I heard at work the other day that science has now linked a Vegetarian diet to a lower sperm count? So it literally does make you less of a man. If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat? I have no problem with vegetarians or vegans, until they start preaching at me or criticising me for not believing as they do, that gets them a rapid Foxtrot Oscar, the same goes for the religious types. I don't make promises. Things go **** up when I do. I act first then let the actions speak.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21012
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:59:05 -
[213] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game? No actually, I'd rather not know. As usual it's the "elite PvP" folks who are always obsessing over these things. They're not the ones that threaten violence in the real world over what happens in a video game, that would be some of the carebears.
Anslo wrote:I don't make promises. Things to **** up when I do. I act first then let the actions speak. Heh, that's fair enough, actions generally do speak louder than words.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6031
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:06:32 -
[214] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game? No actually, I'd rather not know. As usual it's the "elite PvP" folks who are always obsessing over these things. First off Im wildly inept at pvp and have never claimed otherwise.
I have however stated i thoroughly enjoy it.
Secondly ,
what?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
183
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:11:01 -
[215] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:
No, this is quite true. CONCORD is one of the balance mechanisms that keeps gankers in check by imposing a significant cost on a ganker - in this case loss of a ship. This means a ganker cannot use use a ship more costly than their opponents, and in practice it has to be much cheaper if they hope to make a profit by looting drops.
As you have said in this thread the coding is arbitrary - if CCP wanted to they could increase CONCORD response times to 1 second everywhere in highsec or even lock out weapons fire totally. But they haven't because criminal highsec combat is part of the design specification of Eve. My description is completely accurate - CCP's design for highsec explicitly allows the possibility of criminal highsec player vs. player engagement, and the possibility for this scales with decreasing security status through the mechanism of CONCORD response time.
You may not like this, and can argue for CCP to change this so you and your PvE-focused friends can have complete safety in highsec, but that doesn't change the fact that you are playing a game that was explicitly designed to foster PvP engagements in all parts of New Eden, including high security space.
Fair enough. This would be a strong argument where I trying to rid highsec of all non-consensual PvP. I am not. I am not looking for complete safety in highsec. What I would like to see is less aimless violence without consequences. For instance, the people who pop pods in thrashers every 15 minutes. Or the professional empty ship exploders. These can be deterred without making highsec "entirely safe." And I, for one, would like to see CONCORD cracking down on career criminal suicide gankers. |
Matrea D
Maggie's Magical Miners Maggie's Magical Malliance
4
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:11:20 -
[216] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote: I can see it ruining someone else's experience though, and that's what I want to express.
This is part of what's wrong. |
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
146
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:12:28 -
[217] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote: Crying for a just cause imo ... seriously.
Im not even gonna try to unravel the wordtwisting... you ignore everything everyone else says and come in with a new twist at post #196.
Not twisting anything. The OP literally says "I've met some amazing people in eve. You need to stop treating newbies like crap. This is not the only time I was treated like crap." OP is not a newbie.
Is it a just cause? Should we treat new players better? Perhaps. But I fail to see evidence that we treat them too harshly in the first place. There are certainly many things that can be done to enhance the NPE and we can help as players. But if you are trying to say we actively drive away players we should be trying to keep, you need to make a far stronger case than that troll bait op.
Brochan McLeod wrote: All im saying is to stop hurting eachother for the sake of hurting.... HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND ?
If losing a pawn in chess hurts you, you should stop playing chess. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10206
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:13:13 -
[218] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: And I, for one, would like to see CONCORD cracking down on career criminal suicide gankers.
Which amounts to seeing highsec entirely safe. Since those people are pretty much the only risk left in highsec. Since, you know, you can't delete low sec status alts.
If you weren't already aware of this, then you are displaying your usual ignorance.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8695
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:14:38 -
[219] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:All im saying is to stop hurting eachother for the sake of hurting.... HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND ? No one's hurting anyone; this is a video game. How hard is THAT to understand?
For some, the word "impossible" comes to mind.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19311
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:15:32 -
[220] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Heh, that's fair enough, actions generally do speak louder than words. Yet people like Kaarous and others keep saying all I do is mine and mission.
Bruh.
I don't get it Bruh.
Why dey potato Bruh?
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2743
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:16:33 -
[221] - Quote
Anslo wrote:La Nariz wrote:Keep on whinging Anslo it will work one of these times.
E: James315 you need to add "has an important RL job to miner bingo." Nice counter. Also, everyone can tell you got a nose job. Stop pretending you didn't. #dunkt
At least I know you have some minuscule semblance of wit about you now.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21023
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:16:43 -
[222] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Fair enough. This would be a strong argument where I trying to rid highsec of all non-consensual PvP. I am not. I am not looking for complete safety in highsec. The gist of most of your posting says otherwise.
Quote:What I would like to see is less aimless violence without consequences. For instance, the people who pop pods in thrashers every 15 minutes. Or the professional empty ship exploders. These can be deterred without making highsec "entirely safe." If you want to see consequences for aimless violence then it is up to you to provide those consequences, welcome to the sandbox.
Quote:And I, for one, would like to see CONCORD cracking down on career criminal suicide gankers. I, for one, would like to see you try and provide the consequences you so desperately want CCP to provide for you via CONCORD.
Stop being so damn lazy and actually do something INGAME if you feel so strongly about it, that's the whole damn principle of an open ended game such as Eve.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5398
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:17:27 -
[223] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time. ...
We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Now you may say to yourself, "well, duh! Next time don't trust anyone in EVE!" ...
You got PVP'd on a psychological level. It's no different from any other con or scam in the game.
Having these tactics be legal within the game rules is precisely what makes trust in EVE such a valuable commodity. Like it or don't, but it is central to the dark and dangerous universe of EVE.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:17:34 -
[224] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:What I would like to see is less aimless violence without consequences.
I'm bored, so I'll bite.
Why? Aimless violence is sort of the raison d'+¬tre for most games these days, and Eve in particular. Hell MWO's entire playmodel is built around miscellaneous violence in a never ending cycle of drop, explode, drop, explode. Eve's only difference is that violence in Eve "hurts", virtually speaking. You don't get to res, you don't get a do over, you don't get to keep your stuff (unless you have friends close by who can grab it for you).
My question for you, Veers, is why is this necessarily a bad thing? Why is the cycle of destruction that turns the motor of the Eve ecoinomy in need of a change?
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
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Anslo
Scope Works
19318
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:18:01 -
[225] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Anslo wrote:La Nariz wrote:Keep on whinging Anslo it will work one of these times.
E: James315 you need to add "has an important RL job to miner bingo." Nice counter. Also, everyone can tell you got a nose job. Stop pretending you didn't. #dunkt At least I know you have some minuscule semblance of wit about you now.
Implying I care what a shitposter thinks.
Now stop trying to stab me with your nose.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
|
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
1140
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:21:18 -
[226] - Quote
IDK is anyone said this already...
"What is wrong with eve in the simplest terms?"
a: you op, you.
/thread
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2743
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:22:28 -
[227] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game? No actually, I'd rather not know. As usual it's the "elite PvP" folks who are always obsessing over these things.
How about keeping the violence in game like we do? Or just post your meltdown thread and do your iz-esque threatening posts.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10210
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:23:35 -
[228] - Quote
Anslo wrote: Yet people like Kaarous and others keep saying all I do is mine and mission.
No, I'm saying you're a big blowhard who can't back up all the crap you talk, as well a hypocrite. "carebear" does not mean PvE player. It's a state of mind, and you reek of it.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2743
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:23:42 -
[229] - Quote
Anslo wrote:La Nariz wrote:Anslo wrote:La Nariz wrote:Keep on whinging Anslo it will work one of these times.
E: James315 you need to add "has an important RL job to miner bingo." Nice counter. Also, everyone can tell you got a nose job. Stop pretending you didn't. #dunkt At least I know you have some minuscule semblance of wit about you now. Implying I care what a shitposter thinks. Now stop trying to stab me with your nose.
Lol if anything we are the only true good posters in all of eve-o.
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Improve the forums, support this idea:
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Anslo
Scope Works
19318
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:23:43 -
[230] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:IDK is anyone said this already...
"What is wrong with eve in the simplest terms?"
a: you op, you.
/thread Look out we got a bad ass over here. Such edge.
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Anslo
Scope Works
19318
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:24:30 -
[231] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anslo wrote: Yet people like Kaarous and others keep saying all I do is mine and mission.
No, I'm saying you're a big blowhard who can't back up all the crap you talk, as well a hypocrite. "carebear" does not mean PvE player. It's a state of mind, and you reek of it. And if you bothered to do any research you-oh why am I feeding your irrelevant ass now?
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2743
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:25:42 -
[232] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Heh, that's fair enough, actions generally do speak louder than words. Yet people like Kaarous and others keep saying all I do is mine and mission. Bruh. I don't get it Bruh. Why dey potato Bruh?
The evidence shows that all you do is whine and try to be ~edgy~, I hear reddit is welcoming of you types.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8696
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:27:08 -
[233] - Quote
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:What I would like to see is less aimless violence without consequences. I'm bored, so I'll bite. Why? Aimless violence is sort of the raison d'+¬tre for most games these days, and Eve in particular. Hell MWO's entire playmodel is built around miscellaneous violence in a never ending cycle of drop, explode, drop, explode. Eve's only difference is that violence in Eve "hurts", virtually speaking. You don't get to res, you don't get a do over, you don't get to keep your stuff (unless you have friends close by who can grab it for you). My question for you, Veers, is why is this necessarily a bad thing? Why is the cycle of destruction that turns the motor of the Eve ecoinomy in need of a change?
+1
This is a game (and one notorious for aimless violence). EVERYTHING ABOUT IT is 'aimless' unless you are CCP (who make money off the game). Hell, from a certain perspective, this game (and all games ) are counter-productive because you could be using this time to find a cure for cancer ( or ebola, or worse, CANBOLA) or doing something useful.
That's why these types that take this stuff to seriously are the 'crazy' ones, not the guys ganking folks for local chat tears. The gankers are keeping things in perspective (ie "EVE is something to gain enjoyment from and they are gaining enjoyment from it"), the whiners are trapped in a virtual world where they are being just as 'bullied' by others as much as they probably were in real life (this, despite the fact that in this virtual world you can legally shoot the bastards 'just because)..
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Anslo
Scope Works
19326
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:27:18 -
[234] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Anslo wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Heh, that's fair enough, actions generally do speak louder than words. Yet people like Kaarous and others keep saying all I do is mine and mission. Bruh. I don't get it Bruh. Why dey potato Bruh? The evidence shows that all you do is whine and try to be ~edgy~, I hear reddit is welcoming of you types.
YOU SEE JONAH?! YOU SEE??
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6035
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:27:23 -
[235] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game? No actually, I'd rather not know. As usual it's the "elite PvP" folks who are always obsessing over these things. How about keeping the violence in game like we do? Or just post your meltdown thread and do your iz-esque threatening posts. like this?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
1141
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:28:54 -
[236] - Quote
Anslo wrote:DaReaper wrote:IDK is anyone said this already...
"What is wrong with eve in the simplest terms?"
a: you op, you.
/thread Look out we got a bad ass over here. Such edge.
Oh far from it, i'm as carebear as they come. Died more times then I can count, a lot of it due to my own stupidity. Like losing a carrier when I had it for a week to WT's cause a npc had me scrambled and I did not have small drones to kill it. Or flying my month old nyx into a game camp. Or having my alliance get scammed out of 25b cause I was not thinking and listening tot eh wrong people... or a million other reasons.
Fact remains, eve is what it is because of the players. One of the first rules of eve, hell its even on the damn 'about game' area, is you shouldn't trust anyone. That's it. The fault lies with the op. The op is what is wrong with eve. People who think they can trust another player in a game that basicly says 'do not trust anyone' then immediately come whine on the forms cause they got scammed, killed, whatever, asking whats wrogn with eve. The answer is always... you. Change your mentality and you will see eve is perfect as she is, flaws and all.
In my 11 years here, no other game has come close to being anything like eve. She may want to knee you in the balls everyday, but damn she is a sexy game.
Now to actually be bad ass...
/thread I win
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
24
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:28:59 -
[237] - Quote
Dang... my capslock got stuck... did ya see that?
Anyway... have a nice evening y'all.
... cretins :P
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
1141
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:31:03 -
[238] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game? No actually, I'd rather not know. As usual it's the "elite PvP" folks who are always obsessing over these things. How about keeping the violence in game like we do? Or just post your meltdown thread and do your iz-esque threatening posts. like this?
OT: Ralph, first time someone showed up and orange to me on the forums lol.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
24
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:31:12 -
[239] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Anslo wrote:DaReaper wrote:IDK is anyone said this already...
"What is wrong with eve in the simplest terms?"
a: you op, you.
/thread Look out we got a bad ass over here. Such edge. Oh far from it, i'm as carebear as they come. Died more times then I can count, a lot of it due to my own stupidity. Like losing a carrier when I had it for a week to WT's cause a npc had me scrambled and I did not have small drones to kill it. Or flying my month old nyx into a game camp. Or having my alliance get scammed out of 25b cause I was not thinking and listening tot eh wrong people... or a million other reasons. Fact remains, eve is what it is because of the players. One of the first rules of eve, hell its even on the damn 'about game' area, is you shouldn't trust anyone. That's it. The fault lies with the op. The op is what is wrong with eve. People who think they can trust another player in a game that basicly says 'do not trust anyone' then immediately come whine on the forms cause they got scammed, killed, whatever, asking whats wrogn with eve. The answer is always... you. Change your mentality and you will see eve is perfect as she is, flaws and all. In my 11 years here, no other game has come close to being anything like eve. She may want to knee you in the balls everyday, but damn she is a sexy game. Now to actually be bad ass... /thread I win
Coward!
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21027
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:31:48 -
[240] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Is anyone else wondering what violent spousal abuse has to do with winning in a video game? No actually, I'd rather not know. As usual it's the "elite PvP" folks who are always obsessing over these things. How about keeping the violence in game like we do? Or just post your meltdown thread and do your iz-esque threatening posts. like this? Dial 0800 TEARS for the internet detective
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6038
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:34:04 -
[241] - Quote
DaReaper wrote: OT: Ralph, first time someone showed up and orange to me on the forums lol.
Iv been showing as -10 to myself for weeks now, I wouldn't worry about it dude.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21031
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:35:31 -
[242] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:DaReaper wrote: OT: Ralph, first time someone showed up and orange to me on the forums lol.
Iv been showing as -10 to myself for weeks now, I wouldn't worry about it dude. That'll be the self loathing because you're obviously a terrible person for shooting people in the face in a video game where you're allowed to shoot people in the face
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10212
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:35:39 -
[243] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:DaReaper wrote: OT: Ralph, first time someone showed up and orange to me on the forums lol.
Iv been showing as -10 to myself for weeks now, I wouldn't worry about it dude.
Looks like even the new forums have that old bug. I kinda like it after all this time, to be honest.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6038
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:36:43 -
[244] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:DaReaper wrote: OT: Ralph, first time someone showed up and orange to me on the forums lol.
Iv been showing as -10 to myself for weeks now, I wouldn't worry about it dude. That'll be the self loathing because you're obviously a terrible person for shooting people in the face in a video game where you're allowed to shoot people in the face Or the hangover
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8699
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:36:50 -
[245] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time. ...
We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Now you may say to yourself, "well, duh! Next time don't trust anyone in EVE!" ...
You got PVP'd on a psychological level. It's no different from any other con or scam in the game. Having these tactics be legal within the game rules is precisely what makes trust in EVE such a valuable commodity. Like it or don't, but it is central to the dark and dangerous universe of EVE.
Not just Central. VITAL.
The problem is that people like the OP don't understand how vital.
A few years back another company announced a new game. I won't name the game but it does involve pointy ear folks both living long and prospering (lol). The makers of the game stated clearly that it would be nothing like EVE. It's PVE focused (with PVE that isn't crap), has walking in stations (and in ships and on planets), NO non-consensual pvp and no real loss even if your ship gets blown up.
It's everything the EVE carebear ever asked for in a game. Some proclaimed loudly that not only would they leave and never return to EVE, but that this game would kill EVE. The maker of that game boasted about it's million+ subs at launch.
Several years later t has a fraction of it's launch day subscriptions (despite being a game based on a major , established and well know IP) and the same people who SWORE it would kill EVE and that they would never come back ...are back and claiming that Elite and Star Citizen are about to kill EVE.
The truth is the folks complaining are the ones who NEED EVE to be how it is. If it changed they way they say they want it to, they'd leave and go find some other game to be mad at. Because they NEED to be mad at something , need to be that 'rebel with a jacked up cause', to feel both alive and useful. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
1143
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:40:42 -
[246] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:DaReaper wrote: OT: Ralph, first time someone showed up and orange to me on the forums lol.
Iv been showing as -10 to myself for weeks now, I wouldn't worry about it dude.
oh 'm not, I just found it funny, lol. it cleared up now
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Jur Tissant
The TERRA Guardians of Serenity
260
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:42:38 -
[247] - Quote
I don't mind people getting screwed over when they put themselves in situations of trust, but I think CCP should remove the trust factor from a lot of things. For one, POCOs and POSes should be up for contract/trade to legitimize buying them without needing a third party. Also, I have no idea why there isn't a simple "duel to 50% hull" option, or just until pod - I think it would encourage PvP among high-sec residents if they knew they could practice with strangers without having to put their ship (or pod) on the line. |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
120
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:45:32 -
[248] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: This is a game (and one notorious for aimless violence). EVERYTHING ABOUT IT is 'aimless' unless you are CCP (who make money off the game). Hell, from a certain perspective, this game (and all games ) are counter-productive because you could be using this time to find a cure for cancer ( or ebola, or worse, CANBOLA) or doing something useful.
I got 99 problems but CANBOLA ain't one.
Thank Bob.
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10213
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:48:43 -
[249] - Quote
Jur Tissant wrote:Also, I have no idea why there isn't a simple "duel to 50% hull" option, or just until pod - I think it would encourage PvP among high-sec residents if they knew they could practice with strangers without having to put their ship (or pod) on the line.
Probably because this is a destruction based ecoonomy. It's literally a core function of the game to get blown up.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6039
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:49:12 -
[250] - Quote
Jur Tissant wrote:I don't mind people getting screwed over when they put themselves in situations of trust, but I think CCP should remove the trust factor from a lot of things. For one, POCOs and POSes should be up for contract/trade to legitimize buying them without needing a third party. Also, I have no idea why there isn't a simple "duel to 50% hull" option, or just until pod - I think it would encourage PvP among high-sec residents if they knew they could practice with strangers without having to put their ship (or pod) on the line. Your pod isn't on the line though, it's impossible to lock a pod if you're spamming warp the second you exexplode . if I can catch your pod. you deserve it.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2529
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:49:22 -
[251] - Quote
Thread temporarily locked for some cleaning.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2532
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 22:36:32 -
[252] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.
The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread. Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.
36. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.
More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel. Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.
On topic: We all have made silly mistakes in EvE. Those that claim they haven't are quite frankly lying through their teeth. Trusting people who in hindsight should not have been trusted, undocking in the wrong ship during a wardec, forgetting about D-scan while in a Wormhole, accepting that 'too good to be true' contract, you name it, someone has done it. If that someone happened to be me (yes, I have made plenty of silly mistakes), well, it was my decision that got me there in the first place. And as the game mechanics are the same for everyone, those are not to blame I would think.
Therefore my reaction is always and has always been 'Doh....whatwasIthinking?!?......'. Followed by 'gf' in local....
Thread re-opened.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
25
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 23:55:29 -
[253] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: Also due to the fact that you think people in real life, are honourable and noble is gullible,
I missed this one earlier due to hectic.
If you really never experienced people like that, then i can fully understand where you're coming from.
There are certainly people around that are honourable and integer.... just keep looking.
Now that the dust has settled a bit i'd like to apologize for losing my temper earlier. You guys are very good at getting someone riled up but that is no excuse for me losing it.
I wanna just get one last thing off my chest.
I am not saying this game should be changed in any way... its way to awesome to be even thinking about that. I say that without fully knowing all its ins and outs because ive not been playing for that long yet. I have lots to see and learn still.
I am aware of some of the mechanics that are in the game, built in or introduced by players. And ive seen first hand how low this game can be played... i was there at the convo and i know what ive heard/read in local.
Im not going to tell about it ... its of no importance anymore and its probably much worse for me then it would be to all you guys... but it was nasty!... by anyones standard.
All im saying is that when you play with peoples emotions and feelings, you have a great responsibility. Especially when you are more savvy than your opponent. You may like this or not and it can be 'just a game' a hundred times over... but you cant just crap all over someone as ive witnessed and as seems to be common practise in this game. It will come back one day and bite you in the ass! .. or worse!
Okay im done. Fly safe.. or fly into an asteroid.. whatever floats yer boat.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2750
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:06:43 -
[254] - Quote
Maybe we shouldn't get emotionally invested in a video game?
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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John E Normus
New Order Logistics CODE.
237
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:16:37 -
[255] - Quote
OP, how much isk does a scam like this bring in?
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
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Ertur Adestur
Hek Xplo Ltd
32
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:21:47 -
[256] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Maybe we shouldn't get emotionally invested in a video game?
I keep seeing this, and... Eh, it depends on what you mean, I suppose.
If you're having any kind of fun in the game, you're emotionally invested. Getting any sense of emotional reward? Yup, you've put something in. Of course, I assume what's meant with the above is an "unhealthy" level of attachment, so could we just say that?
Be invested, don't get attached.
Because if I'm not somewhat invested, if there's no sense of immersion, there's no point to me. And on the other hand, if events in a game start screwing with your stability and well being, you really need to take a step back and assess.
Sorry for the off topic, it's one of those pet peeves.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6047
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:22:39 -
[257] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote: Now that the dust has settled a bit i'd like to apologize for losing my temper earlier. You guys are very good at getting someone riled up but that is no excuse for me losing it.
No problem dude, forum pvp can have that effect (oh yeah, the forums have been weponised long before either of us started playing). just be aware that when a discussion gets heated like that and someone thinks they have you on tilt, they will just wind you up to see how fast you spin when set loose
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10216
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:25:48 -
[258] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: Now that the dust has settled a bit i'd like to apologize for losing my temper earlier. You guys are very good at getting someone riled up but that is no excuse for me losing it.
No problem dude, forum pvp can have that effect (oh yeah, the forums have been weponised long before either of us started playing). just be aware that when a discussion gets heated like that and someone thinks they have you on tilt, they will just wind you up to see how fast you spin when set loose
And then things like this happen.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6048
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:28:07 -
[259] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: Now that the dust has settled a bit i'd like to apologize for losing my temper earlier. You guys are very good at getting someone riled up but that is no excuse for me losing it.
No problem dude, forum pvp can have that effect (oh yeah, the forums have been weponised long before either of us started playing). just be aware that when a discussion gets heated like that and someone thinks they have you on tilt, they will just wind you up to see how fast you spin when set loose And then things like this happen. and this
Edit : also if it makes you feel any better Brochan McLeod, check my kill board losses (link in my sig)
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10217
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:32:42 -
[260] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: Now that the dust has settled a bit i'd like to apologize for losing my temper earlier. You guys are very good at getting someone riled up but that is no excuse for me losing it.
No problem dude, forum pvp can have that effect (oh yeah, the forums have been weponised long before either of us started playing). just be aware that when a discussion gets heated like that and someone thinks they have you on tilt, they will just wind you up to see how fast you spin when set loose And then things like this happen. and thisEdit : also if it makes you feel any better Brochan McLeod, check my kill board losses (link in my sig)
Oh, so beautiful. Nothing I shall ever do in EVE will equal the accomplishment of that night. Even with 30% of it deleted, I still laugh into conniption fits reading it.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2753
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:37:39 -
[261] - Quote
Ertur Adestur wrote:La Nariz wrote:Maybe we shouldn't get emotionally invested in a video game? I keep seeing this, and... Eh, it depends on what you mean, I suppose. If you're having any kind of fun in the game, you're emotionally invested. Getting any sense of emotional reward? Yup, you've put something in. Of course, I assume what's meant with the above is an "unhealthy" level of attachment, so could we just say that? Be invested, don't get attached. Because if I'm not somewhat invested, if there's no sense of immersion, there's no point to me. And on the other hand, if events in a game start screwing with your stability and well being, you really need to take a step back and assess. Sorry for the off topic, it's one of those pet peeves.
Not necessarily it is very possible to enjoy the game, have fun, and take pride in your in-game accomplishments without getting emotionally invested in it. If you want to be emotionally invested in something, get a pet, a plant, a spouse and/or a child.
It's foolish to get so attached to things in this game where at least half of the point of it is to blow things up.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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Daniel Jackson
Liandri Sanctuary Corps Liandri Covenant
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:40:03 -
[262] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time.
Over the last month, the price of the Garmur has dropped drastically. This is awesome as I've been waiting to get one!
So last night I got a Garmur. Looked up fits and made one I liked. I took it out for a spin and the second I undocked from jita every single person wanted a duel. I was finally hailed to convo by a 9 year old character asking if I wanted to duel.
"Sure I said, but only to hull, as I just bought this and I haven't had a proper fight in it yet."
They agreed, more than once, and I was very very clear. But were busy, and kept putting off he fight, so I logged for the night.
Tonight I jump on, and a few minutes later I'm hailed again by this 9 yr old character. They ask if I would like to duel to hull, and I say sure!
We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Now you may say to yourself, "well, duh! Next time don't trust anyone in EVE!"
but honestly that's what he said, so don't be an idiot.
Let's be clear. Losing an 80 mil ISK ship isn't going to bankrupt me or ruin my experience in EVE.
I can see it ruining someone else's experience though, and that's what I want to express. This person had nothing to gain, not even a killmail from killing my Garmur. Doing this kind of thing, is what makes people leave this game. And maybe that's what someone like him wants.
If it had been a fair fight and he had kept going past hull, I wouldn't have minded all that much, but there was no honor, and no sportsmanship at all. In the end, I really just ended up feeling sorry for this guy as a human being.
I've met some really amazing people in EVE, people that have given me ships, people that have taught me things about the game, and people that have podded me, and then given me the money I would need to get my ship back 10x.
Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
I know myself, that I rarely see any new characters anymore. Everyone I see is almost 10 years old. And this is why. If a 9 year old character has nothing better to do, that troll new characters, and under the sad guise of 'don't trust anyone in EVE' then I'm really not sure that I can see a long term investment in this game is something I want to consider.
*Snip* Please refrain from posting private in game correspondence. ISD Ezwal.
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
^ that is what's wrong with eve, people posting with a Wall of text
but what is also wrong with eve is that missions seems extremely repetitive, same with almost everything else it seems like we are doing the same things over and over again. like robots
especially the players like my self who have no income at all, so players like me which im pretty sure are a majority have to grind most of our lives away just to get anywhere in eve
I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
17045
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:51:54 -
[263] - Quote
Daniel Jackson wrote:^ that is what's wrong with eve, people posting with a Wall of text That was no wall of text. It at least has paragraphs. The ones that don't just burn the eyes.
For me, there's nothing wrong with Eve. I think there's a common perception because we tend to be more vocal about things we see as a problem and less vocal when things go well.
So the forums, other websites comments, blog posts, etc. are often filled with more negative than positive because who wants to come and start a thread that is "yey CCP and Eve. Such a wonderful game".
That just doesn't happen often.
But I have to say my experience in the game is almost 100% positive, not only with my Corp mates, but other people in the forum and total strangers in game.
I actually think the community is much nicer than we like to give ourselves credit for and a lot nicer and more civil than many other places on the internet where you can hide behind a veil of anonymity.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
LAGL 4 LYF
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Ertur Adestur
Hek Xplo Ltd
32
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 00:54:06 -
[264] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: Not necessarily it is very possible to enjoy the game, have fun, and take pride in your in-game accomplishments without getting emotionally invested in it. If you want to be emotionally invested in something, get a pet, a plant, a spouse and/or a child.
It's foolish to get so attached to things in this game where at least half of the point of it is to blow things up.
I agree, though my point was to see if there's a difference between "investment" and "attachment" here. Maybe it's my understanding of English that's lacking.
To put it this way: A suicide ganker invests in a ship, but doesn't get attached, because he knows the ship is lost. From this, he is rewarded with fun. Does that make it clearer? Does the term "emotional investment" automatically include "emotional attachment"?
To add a bit of cheese: "Don't play a game that you can't afford to lose."
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2753
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 02:06:21 -
[265] - Quote
Ertur Adestur wrote:La Nariz wrote: Not necessarily it is very possible to enjoy the game, have fun, and take pride in your in-game accomplishments without getting emotionally invested in it. If you want to be emotionally invested in something, get a pet, a plant, a spouse and/or a child.
It's foolish to get so attached to things in this game where at least half of the point of it is to blow things up.
I agree, though my point was to see if there's a difference between "investment" and "attachment" here. Maybe it's my understanding of English that's lacking. To put it this way: A suicide ganker invests in a ship, but doesn't get attached, because he knows the ship is lost. From this, he is rewarded with fun. Does that make it clearer? Does the term "emotional investment" automatically include "emotional attachment"? To add a bit of cheese: "Don't play a game that you can't afford to lose."
I think you are confusing isk and emotions. The suicide ganker is investing isk in their equipment they are not emotionally investing in anything. I'll repeat myself:
La Nariz wrote:It's foolish to get so attached to things in this game where at least half of the point of it is to blow things up.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2753
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 02:08:21 -
[266] - Quote
Daniel Jackson wrote:What i see is wrong with eve with my 11 year experience in it is that
missions and mining seems extremely repetitive, same with almost everything else it seems like we are doing the same things over and over again. like robots
especially the players like my self who have no income at all, so players like me which im pretty sure are a majority have to grind most of our lives away just to get anywhere in eve, and by grind i mean like mining, missioning, incursions
and doesn't really seem to favor people lacking social skills which is 1 of the main reasons why its hard to get new players into eve as they can't seem to get anywhere so out of frustration they just quit.
no income meaning like no passive income
btw i removed my original post to avoid getting my post deleted lol
Passive income is a really good idea but, not for highsec where NPCs will defend it for you.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
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Ertur Adestur
Hek Xplo Ltd
33
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 02:20:47 -
[267] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: I'll repeat myself: La Nariz wrote:It's foolish to get so attached to things in this game where at least half of the point of it is to blow things up.
...in which we agree. I guess I'm nitpicking semantics. |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
170
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 02:42:21 -
[268] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: We shudder and think how horrible it is even if it hasnt happened directly to us but more importantly we believe that the unjust, evil people will be punished. In Eve there is none of that punishment or justice happening.
That is imo what makes Eve what it is and what makes it so unique in the gaming world.
Just like real life. |
Maekchu
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
77
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 02:48:05 -
[269] - Quote
Not sure if troll or real...
Nobody can hardly be that stupid?! O.o
So when someone tells you they will double your ISK, do you also gladly give them money just cause of blind trust and "honor"?
Also these "to hull" duels are just retarted. Grow some balls and go out and do some real pvp. Frigates are cheap and fun... DO IT!
Yes, we do have a different way of playing the game. And if you feel like continueing EVE, then at least don't post ridiculous posts saying that this somehow is what is wrong with EVE.
Risk averse people, like you who don't want to explode ships, is what is wrong with EVE and we don't need more of this kind of "blood". |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
170
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 02:50:01 -
[270] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:Not sure if troll or real...
Nobody can hardly be that stupid?! O.o
So when someone tells you they will double your ISK, do you also gladly give them money just cause of blind trust and "honor"?
Also these "to hull" duels are just retarted. Grow some balls and go out and do some real pvp. Frigates are cheap and fun... DO IT!
Yes, we do have a different way of playing the game. And if you feel like continueing EVE, then at least don't post ridiculous posts saying that this somehow is what is wrong with EVE.
Risk averse people, like you who don't want to explode ships, is what is wrong with EVE!
At least he didn't dock up three battlecruisers when one T1 frigate entered the system. I have seen much worse. |
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Serene Repose
1564
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 03:24:52 -
[271] - Quote
I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.
They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more.
a.) Our society generates sociopaths as a natural result of its nature.
b.) It's been happening so long people now think it IS human nature.
c.) Anyone, just anyone, can access the internet.
d.) Why wouldn't they find EVE the perfect environment?
e.) Haven't I been saying this for years now?
"The fault is not in our stars, Brutus. It is in ourselves."
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Daniel Jackson
Liandri Sanctuary Corps Liandri Covenant
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 03:26:44 -
[272] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Daniel Jackson wrote:What i see is wrong with eve with my 11 year experience in it is that
missions and mining seems extremely repetitive, same with almost everything else it seems like we are doing the same things over and over again. like robots
especially the players like my self who have no income at all, so players like me which im pretty sure are a majority have to grind most of our lives away just to get anywhere in eve, and by grind i mean like mining, missioning, incursions
and doesn't really seem to favor people lacking social skills which is 1 of the main reasons why its hard to get new players into eve as they can't seem to get anywhere so out of frustration they just quit.
no income meaning like no passive income
btw i removed my original post to avoid getting my post deleted lol Passive income is a really good idea but, not for highsec where NPCs will defend it for you.
you are from goonswarm u should be well aware that there is no such thing as npcs defending players
I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!!
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Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
612
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 08:21:53 -
[273] - Quote
Contrary to what everyone is saying, they are definitely doing it for the killmail. |
Rockstede
30plus Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 09:18:00 -
[274] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And here I thought that nobody was fool enough to fall for that trick anymore. There's always more new players to fall for it.
Plenty of old ones too. |
embrel
BamBam Inc. Outlanders United
195
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 10:10:01 -
[275] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Maybe we shouldn't get emotionally invested in a video game?
why then should we play it?
I'd assume games you are not emotionally invested in will tend to bore you rather quickly. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
102
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 10:17:05 -
[276] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Black Pedro wrote:
No, this is quite true. CONCORD is one of the balance mechanisms that keeps gankers in check by imposing a significant cost on a ganker - in this case loss of a ship. This means a ganker cannot use use a ship more costly than their opponents, and in practice it has to be much cheaper if they hope to make a profit by looting drops.
As you have said in this thread the coding is arbitrary - if CCP wanted to they could increase CONCORD response times to 1 second everywhere in highsec or even lock out weapons fire totally. But they haven't because criminal highsec combat is part of the design specification of Eve. My description is completely accurate - CCP's design for highsec explicitly allows the possibility of criminal highsec player vs. player engagement, and the possibility for this scales with decreasing security status through the mechanism of CONCORD response time.
You may not like this, and can argue for CCP to change this so you and your PvE-focused friends can have complete safety in highsec, but that doesn't change the fact that you are playing a game that was explicitly designed to foster PvP engagements in all parts of New Eden, including high security space.
Fair enough. This would be a strong argument where I trying to rid highsec of all non-consensual PvP. I am not. I am not looking for complete safety in highsec. What I would like to see is less aimless violence without consequences. For instance, the people who pop pods in thrashers every 15 minutes. Or the professional empty ship exploders. These can be deterred without making highsec "entirely safe." And I, for one, would like to see CONCORD cracking down on career criminal suicide gankers.
Again, the point is that highsec is suppose to have aimless violence by design. Ok, perhaps not aimless by design, but at least player-driven violence which can be for any purpose - including purposes that lack an aim, or for aims that are not always apparent to others. So really, in a game designed around so much player freedom, it is impossible to rid highsec of the types of violence you find distasteful without banning all non-consensual PvP in highsec.
Highsec has been explicitly designed to allow these criminals/vandals/pirates to operate in, with some hoops to jump through (like the faction police, 15 min GCC, etc.) to provide some measure of safety for new and newly corporationless players. You can argue the hoops should be made higher, but this will impact all those who commit crimes in highsec - whether for fun, for profit, or in a targeted way to hurt a competitor - all equally, as there is no difference between these aggressive acts themselves. So by arguing to limit one of them, you are really arguing to limit all of them.
Eve was designed with the idea that the players would provide the consequences to criminals operating in highsec (hence the free-fire "outlaw" status at -5), not CONCORD. Eve was designed so that "career criminal suicide ganker" is a possible career choice. I am not going claim the game design is perfect - more could be done to support a "career law enforcement" profession I suppose - but solo PvE players like you are really not suppose to exist. PvE content is really only there to drive PvP conflict - that is produce resources to fight over and to build things to fight with. If you are being harassed by career highsec criminals, you are suppose to organize and fight back (or protect yourself) with the tools at your disposal, not hide behind the limited NPC protection that exists in highsec.
If you only like PvE, then your fellow corporation members that you support with your PvE earnings are suppose to fight back on your behalf. Or if you insist on playing solo, you must accept that you are the prey item in this game, and your victory condition is just not getting eaten by the predators, even in highsec. This is how the game was designed.
The "crime" in highsec you dislike is there by design. If you want there to be less criminals in highsec, get a PvP ship and go do something about it, as the game was designed.
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10657
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 10:57:23 -
[277] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.
They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more.
a.) Our society generates sociopaths as a natural result of its nature.
b.) It's been happening so long people now think it IS human nature.
c.) Anyone, just anyone, can access the internet.
d.) Why wouldn't they find EVE the perfect environment?
e.) Haven't I been saying this for years now?
"The fault is not in our stars, Brutus. It is in ourselves." Saying someone is a sociopath for disassociating consequences and their actions in a digital gaming environment is a stretch at best. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
206
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:00:19 -
[278] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Fair enough. This would be a strong argument where I trying to rid highsec of all non-consensual PvP. I am not. I am not looking for complete safety in highsec. The gist of most of your posting says otherwise. Quote:What I would like to see is less aimless violence without consequences. For instance, the people who pop pods in thrashers every 15 minutes. Or the professional empty ship exploders. These can be deterred without making highsec "entirely safe." If you want to see consequences for aimless violence then it is up to you to provide those consequences, welcome to the sandbox. Quote:And I, for one, would like to see CONCORD cracking down on career criminal suicide gankers. I, for one, would like to see you try and provide the consequences you so desperately want CCP to provide for you via CONCORD. Stop being so damn lazy and actually do something INGAME if you feel so strongly about it, that's the whole principle of an open ended game such as Eve. TL;DR Put up or shut up.
I am afraid you're talking to a concrete wall. Veers' only real interest, is to hear himself talk. ( or read in this case of course )
|
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:08:13 -
[279] - Quote
So in a game about killing internet spaceships your internet spaceship got killed? Baffling. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:17:29 -
[280] - Quote
I honestly have a giant writing I'm working up for what is bad about Eve. Eve isn't all bad, but many of the bad things cripple it from being great.
Quote:The "crime" in highsec you dislike is there by design. If you want there to be less criminals in highsec, get a PvP ship and go do something about it, as the game was designed.
No. Between mass alts with multiple accounts, there's no accountability for crime by other players. That and the fact they get to shoot first in high sec instead of anyone being able to take a pro-active "anti" stance against them.
If it didn't work that way, tons of carebears would probably have invested in a militia by now, and then that'd bring wardecs from nullspace by pirate/ganker alliances, and there'd be a lot more actual fighting in high sec, less ganking. |
|
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:24:42 -
[281] - Quote
Marcus Tedric wrote:The 'problem' with EVE in this respect is quite arguably very simple - that there are no consequences. Concord is the consequence in high sec. Although the OP chose to forgo that protection by agreeing to a duel.
It is pretty simple, the killer probably wanted the OPs shiny loot and you the OP was foolish enough to fall for it. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
134
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:26:14 -
[282] - Quote
shortly after i first started this game i lost a cruiser to a low sec gate camp. An soe high sec mission took me to low sec. and i had assurances from people in eve uni channel that i would probably be ok.
got annihalted at the gate. didnt shoot my pod idk why
anyway I was lucky some random in help channel decided to give me 40 mill isk. so the loss was not that bad.
i guess this reinforces the rule dont fly what u cant afford to lose.
cos man if i had just lost a cruiser and did not have any isk left over - faced with grinding level 1's in a dessie to get enough isk back to buy a cruiser again - i probably would not have bothered and instead ended my eve career.
that would have been a great shame as well because i had not yet had a chance to experience decent fleets and well grounded corps and awesome pvp.
yep such an event would have been game breaking for me.
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:32:29 -
[283] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:The 'problem' with EVE in this respect is quite arguably very simple - that there are no consequences. Concord is the consequence in high sec. Although the OP chose to forgo that protection by agreeing to a duel. It is pretty simple, the killer probably wanted the OPs shiny loot and you the OP was foolish enough to fall for it.
Not really. If everyone was restricted to one character and one account, then you'd see consequences become very harsh and real. People can use alt slots, or buy second, third, fourth, fifth accounts to gank all day long. People can also use their extreme nullsec isk income to buy tags to grind those same alts back into standingto keep ganking. They can also trick people with no consequence easily enough all day long.
Bastion Arzi wrote:shortly after i first started this game i lost a cruiser to a low sec gate camp. An soe high sec mission took me to low sec. and i had assurances from people in eve uni channel that i would probably be ok.
got annihalted at the gate. didnt shoot my pod idk why
anyway I was lucky some random in help channel decided to give me 40 mill isk. so the loss was not that bad.
i guess this reinforces the rule dont fly what u cant afford to lose.
cos man if i had just lost a cruiser and did not have any isk left over - faced with grinding level 1's in a dessie to get enough isk back to buy a cruiser again - i probably would not have bothered and instead ended my eve career.
that would have been a great shame as well because i had not yet had a chance to experience decent fleets and well grounded corps and awesome pvp.
yep such an event would have been game breaking for me.
do ccp do pvp fleet events for new characters? i think they should show people how awesome this game can be before setting them off on years of training. might entice more players to stay. if thats what ccp wants anyway.
I absolutely love this post. Spot on. |
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
742
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:35:23 -
[284] - Quote
tl;dr
the thing that's wrong with it is that the devs are ignoring some of the best ideas on F&I and also Mining is boring and also Station Interiors are *STILL* not open for players to venture into and have drinks and watch exotic dancers actually dance.
and also Amarr and Caldari assault frigates are OP.
Oh and...
and...
and...
CCP WHERE IS MY OCTAGON PIRATE HAT AND MY PARROT
A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg
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Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:37:12 -
[285] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Marcia en Welle wrote:Marcus Tedric wrote:The 'problem' with EVE in this respect is quite arguably very simple - that there are no consequences. Concord is the consequence in high sec. Although the OP chose to forgo that protection by agreeing to a duel. It is pretty simple, the killer probably wanted the OPs shiny loot and you the OP was foolish enough to fall for it. Not really. If everyone was restricted to one character and one account, then you'd see consequences become very harsh and real. People can use alt slots, or buy second, third, fourth, fifth accounts to gank all day long. People can also use their extreme nullsec isk income to buy tags to grind those same alts back into standingto keep ganking. They can also trick people with no consequence easily enough all day long. Yes, but that is a completely different matter to the situation the OP described. Duelling is completely different to suicide ganking.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6055
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:40:54 -
[286] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Serene Repose wrote:I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.
They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more.
a.) Our society generates sociopaths as a natural result of its nature.
b.) It's been happening so long people now think it IS human nature.
c.) Anyone, just anyone, can access the internet.
d.) Why wouldn't they find EVE the perfect environment?
e.) Haven't I been saying this for years now?
"The fault is not in our stars, Brutus. It is in ourselves." Saying someone is a sociopath for disassociating consequences and their actions in a digital gaming environment is a stretch at best. It's a flat out insult in most other cases. saying a person has a malformed mind and is completely lacking in any kind of empathetic cognitive function is exactly the same as calling someone r3tarded ,( which would get you a ballgag in short order if you threw that around). It's a game Serene, cop on and stop acting like a smelly console kiddie.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:47:08 -
[287] - Quote
What is wrong with EvE? Change in the community! Predictably the whole be a villain campaign has attracted quite a lot of wannabe bad boys, unfortunately it did not attract any Joker (The Dark Knight) like villains but mainly Nelson Munz like villain who think that ganking miners is the epitome of awesomeness.
The GHSC heist was brilliant and took BRAIN and EFFORT, these days loitering around Jita and pressing F1 is considered awesome and praiseworthy game play.
Some people pull of a heist like the great train robbery, others steal a can of beer and think they are super awesome. THAT is whats wrong with EvE these days. A large part of the general EvE community went from being awesome straight to being beyond terrible. Just look at the forums.
Crime and punishment used to be the place for gloating, CAOD for gloating, general ship toasting and trolling but GD, S&M. F&I discussions were hardly trolled, these days its not uncommon to see half of the first page on GD being locked and people on S&M and F&I trolling like no tomorrow. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2754
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:54:58 -
[288] - Quote
embrel wrote:La Nariz wrote:Maybe we shouldn't get emotionally invested in a video game? why then should we play it? I'd assume games you are not emotionally invested in will tend to bore you rather quickly. EDIT: oh, I see this has been discussed... point stands though.
A. Its fun,
B. Its enjoyable,
C. Its a 'sandbox' I can have a little pride in but, not attachment to the point I have a meltdown when someone destroys my castle
D. All of the above.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2754
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 11:55:46 -
[289] - Quote
Daniel Jackson wrote: you are from goonswarm u should be well aware that there is no such thing as npcs defending players
CONCORD, where CONCORD exists no passive income should exist.
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Toshiro Hasegawa
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
102
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 12:32:27 -
[290] - Quote
I should have added to my post
that i totaly understand the OP ..
i am one of the good guy paladin types who has never ganked someone, has never pirated, never shot a miner, i even feel bad shooting other people in RVB who have totaly bought into the whole notion of me shooting at them. I dont like video games where the main character isnt a "good guy". I wouldnt never play Sith in Star wars games .. etc.. etc..
I also hate douches who gank and such in EvE when they only do it for tears .. i hate scammers and pirates and all sorts of people who nasty things to players who are just going about their business to have fun.. the whole notion of gaining pleasure from screwing with other people's stuff to me is a clear example of whats wrong with our society, both now and for ever. I could never behave that way, I am too empathetic.. but thats me.
that all being said i long since gave up giving a rats ass. long since learnt that i cant expect others to see the world as i do, nor should they. And do i fault the Broncos or the Patriots (or everyone else) beating up on my Jets. Nope .. thats the name of the game .. beat the enemy. So why should i care what people do in a game of internet spaceships. When you undock your ship you have to know you might lose it, like a wide receiver in football knows that when they step onto the field and try and catch a ball someone is going to try and smoke them.
You can not trust anyone in EvE you dont know in real life. You can trust some more than others .. and learning where your personal line is, is part of game and developing as a player.
I will never accept a duel. As i figure no one will offer to duel unless they know they have the upper hand.
Lastly as a positive from all the "bad people" out there .. without them there would be so much less content in game. Without that fear of being shot up by some random space douche for giggles there wouldnt be anywhere near as much fear about undocking, and without that fear i wouldnt feel the need to play smart, and to feel even more accomplishment completing my goals. Without that heightened sense of fear i wouldnt feel the adreneline rush when jumping my carier into low, or running my orca through WH space out to null. I could go on but you probably get my point. There probably are real, total sociopathic nut cases who like to harm small animals on the side when they arnt high sec ganking hulk pilots .. but for the most part the people who are causing you so much grief are just like the opposing team of a house hockey league checking you into the boards while playing the game and probably be more than willing to go out for beers afterwards.
History is the study of change.
|
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embrel
BamBam Inc. Outlanders United
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 12:33:22 -
[291] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:embrel wrote:La Nariz wrote:Maybe we shouldn't get emotionally invested in a video game? why then should we play it? I'd assume games you are not emotionally invested in will tend to bore you rather quickly. EDIT: oh, I see this has been discussed... point stands though. A. Its fun, B. Its enjoyable, C. Its a 'sandbox' I can have a little pride in but, not attachment to the point I have a meltdown when someone destroys my castle D. All of the above.
and the fun and the enjoyable part are what make you emotionally invested. To some degree or other. Good if you get the shakes at max, less so if you start crying. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2755
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 12:40:31 -
[292] - Quote
embrel wrote:La Nariz wrote:embrel wrote:La Nariz wrote:Maybe we shouldn't get emotionally invested in a video game? why then should we play it? I'd assume games you are not emotionally invested in will tend to bore you rather quickly. EDIT: oh, I see this has been discussed... point stands though. A. Its fun, B. Its enjoyable, C. Its a 'sandbox' I can have a little pride in but, not attachment to the point I have a meltdown when someone destroys my castle D. All of the above. and the fun and the enjoyable part are what make you emotionally invested. To some degree or other. Good if you get the shakes at max, less so if you start crying.
No they don't you can still firmly separate video games and real life while still doing abcd.
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Angeal MacNova
LankTech
235
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 13:07:56 -
[293] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:embrel wrote:La Nariz wrote:embrel wrote:La Nariz wrote:Maybe we shouldn't get emotionally invested in a video game? why then should we play it? I'd assume games you are not emotionally invested in will tend to bore you rather quickly. EDIT: oh, I see this has been discussed... point stands though. A. Its fun, B. Its enjoyable, C. Its a 'sandbox' I can have a little pride in but, not attachment to the point I have a meltdown when someone destroys my castle D. All of the above. and the fun and the enjoyable part are what make you emotionally invested. To some degree or other. Good if you get the shakes at max, less so if you start crying. No they don't you can still firmly separate video games and real life while still doing abcd.
You're not grasping what it means to be 'emotionally invested'.
Does your heart rate increase when engaged in ship v ship? Do your hand begin to shake during a close fight? Hell, do you even just enjoy playing the game?
Emotional investment isn't just black and white. The greater the emotional investment, the greater you will be emotionally impacted. To lack emotional investment, means to find it boring and be generally disinterested.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10222
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 13:29:42 -
[294] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote: You're not grasping what it means to be 'emotionally invested'.
One of you isn't, at any rate.
Quote: Does your heart rate increase when engaged in ship v ship?
Being exciting does not equate to emotional investment.
Quote: Do your hand begin to shake during a close fight?
See above.
Quote: Hell, do you even just enjoy playing the game?
Enjoyable is not emotional investment either. I enjoy my Monopoly set. I am not emotionally invested in it. I can always buy a new one. That's what ships are in EVE Online.
Quote: To lack emotional investment, means to find it boring and be generally disinterested.
Remember when I said that one of you doesn't understand the definition? It's you.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8702
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 13:44:45 -
[295] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Enjoyable is not emotional investment either. I enjoy my Monopoly set. I am not emotionally invested in it. I can always buy a new one. That's what ships are in EVE Online.
You didn't say it loud enough so I highlighted :) .
|
embrel
BamBam Inc. Outlanders United
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 13:52:24 -
[296] - Quote
we're kinda splitting hairs now.
I don't actually enjoy my Monopoly set. I enjoy playing Monopoly however...:)
and my boy doesn't like loosing at monopoly because he looses the monopoly set, but because he doesn't win the game.
but I really shouldn't split hairs about english semantics as it isn't my native language. especially as googling the term returns hits like "Are you letting your emotions drive your investment decisions?" |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
235
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:05:31 -
[297] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Being exciting does not equate to emotional investment.
Yes it does. To be excited, you would have to find it exciting. If you were not emotionally invested at all, then you would not find it exciting. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10224
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:10:28 -
[298] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Being exciting does not equate to emotional investment.
Yes it does. To be excited, you would have to find it exciting. If you were not emotionally invested at all, then you would not find it exciting.
Feeling something does not equate to emotional investment.
Emotional investment in a video game is, to put it mildly, a bad thing. Moreso if it makes you flip your lid when you lose. That's just childish at best, and symptomatic of a mental illness at worst.
Enjoying a video game for whatever reason is not a bad thing. Stop trying to create a false equivalency between bad behavior and normal behavior.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8703
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:13:11 -
[299] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Being exciting does not equate to emotional investment.
Yes it does. To be excited, you would have to find it exciting. If you were not emotionally invested at all, then you would not find it exciting.
This is not true. Their are plenty of ways to be 'excited' by something you aren't emotionally invested in. Roller Coasters and Casual Sex come to mind.
"Emotionally Invested" means that you are entangled in a situation, and it's outcome can have a negative impact on you. Not getting to ride a roller coaster doesn't devastate a person emotionally unless they are 5 years old and told they are too short or young to ride lol. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8705
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:18:30 -
[300] - Quote
embrel wrote:we're kinda splitting hairs now.
I don't actually enjoy my Monopoly set. I enjoy playing Monopoly however...:)
and my boy doesn't like loosing at monopoly because he looses the monopoly set, but because he doesn't win the game.
but I really shouldn't split hairs about english semantics as it isn't my native language. especially as googling the term returns hits like "Are you letting your emotions drive your investment decisions?"
This is an example of the concept being discussed ie, "UNWARRANTED emotional investment".
Also
Losing a space ship should be #8..
TL;DR, some things are stupid to worry about. |
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10663
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:18:50 -
[301] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Being exciting does not equate to emotional investment.
Yes it does. To be excited, you would have to find it exciting. If you were not emotionally invested at all, then you would not find it exciting. This is not true. Their are plenty of ways to be 'excited' by something you aren't emotionally invested in. Roller Coasters and Casual Sex come to mind. "Emotionally Invested" means that you are entangled in a situation, and it's outcome can have a negative impact on you. Not getting to ride a roller coaster doesn't devastate a person emotionally unless they are 5 years old and told they are too short or young to ride lol. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you just related Eve to roller coasters and casual sex. I'm really hoping you meant it to be more the former than the latter.
And to me emotional investment is anything that causes your emotions to change. The degree of it is certainly important and debatable, but I don't think you can argue against the fact that you're emotionally attached in some way to something you spend so much time on. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8706
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:30:10 -
[302] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote: And to me emotional investment is anything that causes your emotions to change. The degree of it is certainly important and debatable, but I don't think you can argue against the fact that you're emotionally attached in some way to something you spend so much time on.
I spent a lot of time on a car I rebuilt. Then i sold it. Money trumps nostalgia.
I spent a lot of time raising a cow from the day it was born....right up to the time I shipped it to a slaughter house and they shipped me back Steaks and I sold the rest to the people who make hair brushes, bubble gum, shampoo and water proofing agents.
I spent a LOT of time collecting rookie baseball cards. Sold them for a trip to Disney as a kid.
The list of IMPORTANT things in my life, the things I am "Emotionally Invested" in is limited to my family, my friends, my country and my career.
My Archon and My Machariel are nice, they are not on that list however. If such things are on someone's list, they have problems. |
Anslo
Scope Works
19553
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:36:37 -
[303] - Quote
You ever think the emotional investment wasn't based on the ship, but the game itself and everything you put into it?
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10226
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:42:36 -
[304] - Quote
Anslo wrote:You ever think the emotional investment wasn't based on the ship, but the game itself and everything you put into it?
No.
It's a combination of unhealthy attachment and functional narcissism. They think they are or should be "immune". When the inherent wrongness of this belief is demonstrated in terms impossible to ignore(like having your ship blown up), the subject flies into a rage rather than confront the possibility of being wrong.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8709
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:43:20 -
[305] - Quote
Anslo wrote:You ever think the emotional investment wasn't based on the ship, but the game itself and everything you put into it?
Being emotionally invested in a video game that could die at any moment is dumb. I put a lot of time into EVE, but I keep it in context, it is entertainment, it means nothing beyond that. The relationships I've made with people in EVE is a bit different, but that does not change what EVE is. A game.
With the exception of the things I mention is the post before this one, I follow the tenets of "DeNiro-ism". EVE Online is constantly within 30 seconds of not existing for me, if it becomes unfun or requires too much 'investment'. |
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10673
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:44:13 -
[306] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Derrick Miles wrote: And to me emotional investment is anything that causes your emotions to change. The degree of it is certainly important and debatable, but I don't think you can argue against the fact that you're emotionally attached in some way to something you spend so much time on.
I spent a lot of time on a car I rebuilt. Then i sold it. Money trumps nostalgia. I spent a lot of time raising a cow from the day it was born....right up to the time I shipped it to a slaughter house and they shipped me back Steaks and I sold the rest to the people who make hair brushes, bubble gum, shampoo and water proofing agents. I spent a LOT of time collecting rookie baseball cards. Sold them for a trip to Disney as a kid. The list of IMPORTANT things in my life, the things I am "Emotionally Invested" in is limited to my family, my friends, my country and my career. My Archon and My Machariel are nice, they are not on that list however. If such things are on someone's list, they have problems. You are emotionally invested a great deal in your family and friends. You were also emotionally invested, if only just a little bit, in the material possessions you gave up or you wouldn't even remember them in the first place. You are confusing the degree of emotions with the fact that they exist at all. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2760
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:52:40 -
[307] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Derrick Miles wrote: And to me emotional investment is anything that causes your emotions to change. The degree of it is certainly important and debatable, but I don't think you can argue against the fact that you're emotionally attached in some way to something you spend so much time on.
You are emotionally invested a great deal in your family and friends. You were also emotionally invested, if only just a little bit, in the material possessions you gave up or you wouldn't even remember them in the first place. You are confusing the degree of emotions with the fact that they exist at all.
These two posts are wrong and passing opinion on as neuroscience.
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Angeal MacNova
LankTech
237
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:52:48 -
[308] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Stop trying to create a false equivalency between bad behavior and normal behavior.
I'm not "creating" anything. It's simply how it works for beings who are capable of emotion. "Equivalency between bad behavior and normal behavior"? You clearly are confused. What "bad behavior"? Emotional investment is normal behavior.
@Jenn
There is a difference between being emotionally invested in the activity and being emotionally invested in the object. You enjoyed working on the car (emotionally invested in the activity) but felt nothing when you sold it (no emotional investment in the car). You may have enjoyed raising the cattle (emotional investment in the activity) but felt nothing when you sent the cattle for slaughter (no emotional investment in the cattle).
It's easy to get confused here where you thought what you were emotionally invested in was the object when that wasn't actually the case.
People do actually get emotionally invested in roller coasters when they ride them. It why they behave the way they do while on them. You even see it when they go on about it after the ride is over. It become even more evident when they 'can't wait to get back on it'.
As for casual sex. People do get emotionally invested there too. Again this is an area where you can get easily confused. What you are interested in is yourself and your own pleasure. What you are not emotionally invested in (and it's the defining point of what makes it "casual") is the the other person.
As all this pertains to EvE, yes you can be emotionally invested in EvE but not be emotionally invested into your ship within EvE. This is where people are getting confused. |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
123
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:53:00 -
[309] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
I remember the shower I took this morning, I guess I'm emotionally invested in washing my ass?
Man I hope so. You ever smelled week old pod goo and burrito farts?
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10683
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:55:51 -
[310] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Derrick Miles wrote: And to me emotional investment is anything that causes your emotions to change. The degree of it is certainly important and debatable, but I don't think you can argue against the fact that you're emotionally attached in some way to something you spend so much time on.
You are emotionally invested a great deal in your family and friends. You were also emotionally invested, if only just a little bit, in the material possessions you gave up or you wouldn't even remember them in the first place. You are confusing the degree of emotions with the fact that they exist at all. These two posts are wrong and passing opinion on as neuroscience. In no way did I mention neuroscience in those posts or make any claim to be an expert in it. It's interesting that you do however. |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10231
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:57:34 -
[311] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Stop trying to create a false equivalency between bad behavior and normal behavior. I'm not "creating" anything. It's simply how it works for beings who are capable of emotion. "Equivalency between bad behavior and normal behavior"? You clearly are confused. What "bad behavior"? Emotional investment is normal behavior.
That's exactly what you are doing.
Hell, literally a few sentences after you claim that you aren't doing it, you do it.
It's not "how it works", that's just you talking out of your ass. Flipping your lid when you lose a 10million isk retriever is completely insane. It is NOT "normal behavior", it is incredibly ****ed up and childish.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2763
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 14:57:49 -
[312] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:La Nariz wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Derrick Miles wrote: And to me emotional investment is anything that causes your emotions to change. The degree of it is certainly important and debatable, but I don't think you can argue against the fact that you're emotionally attached in some way to something you spend so much time on.
You are emotionally invested a great deal in your family and friends. You were also emotionally invested, if only just a little bit, in the material possessions you gave up or you wouldn't even remember them in the first place. You are confusing the degree of emotions with the fact that they exist at all. These two posts are wrong and passing opinion on as neuroscience. In no way did I mention neuroscience in those posts or make any claim to be an expert in it. It's interesting that you do however.
You're making a claim about how the brain works that is literally neuroscience.
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Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10684
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:00:14 -
[313] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Derrick Miles wrote: And to me emotional investment is anything that causes your emotions to change. The degree of it is certainly important and debatable, but I don't think you can argue against the fact that you're emotionally attached in some way to something you spend so much time on.
I spent a lot of time on a car I rebuilt. Then i sold it. Money trumps nostalgia. I spent a lot of time raising a cow from the day it was born....right up to the time I shipped it to a slaughter house and they shipped me back Steaks and I sold the rest to the people who make hair brushes, bubble gum, shampoo and water proofing agents. I spent a LOT of time collecting rookie baseball cards. Sold them for a trip to Disney as a kid. The list of IMPORTANT things in my life, the things I am "Emotionally Invested" in is limited to my family, my friends, my country and my career. My Archon and My Machariel are nice, they are not on that list however. If such things are on someone's list, they have problems. You are emotionally invested a great deal in your family and friends. You were also emotionally invested, if only just a little bit, in the material possessions you gave up or you wouldn't even remember them in the first place. You are confusing the degree of emotions with the fact that they exist at all. I remember the shower I took this morning, I guess I'm emotionally invested in washing my ass? You have a screwy and incorrect idea of what the term "emotional investment" means. Just because you spend time on something or remember something doesn't mean you are attached to it. I remember the burger I ate yesterday too. It's a bit different to remember something that happened during your childhood and something you ate yesterday.
And somehow I don't think this semantic argument has any bearing on what is or isn't wrong with Eve. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2763
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:02:10 -
[314] - Quote
It certainly does, the fact that you are losing the argument doesn't have any bearing on it.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10231
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:03:09 -
[315] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote: And somehow I don't think this semantic argument has any bearing on what is or isn't wrong with Eve.
It's pretty much the entire topic, actually.
Some people want to claim that "what's wrong with EVE" is that their particular mental illness is not being catered to.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10684
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:04:25 -
[316] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:You're making a claim about how the brain works that is literally neuroscience. Neuroscience is the study of the nervous system. Your feelings are related to the biochemistry of the brain, sure, but every discussion about feelings is not neuroscience. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4080
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:05:08 -
[317] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Serene Repose wrote:I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.
They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more. There's a distinct difference between true sociopaths, anti-social behavior, narcissists, and general a-holes. Most people who are a-holes in a game or anywhere else do it because they feel okay with doing it, yet still perceive themselves as decent people because they have people they care about and people that care about them. Narcissists will call themselves sociopaths but really aren't, as both self labeling and the desire not to care about consequences or what anyone thinks screams "love me!". Sociopaths see noone and nothing of value except to use to their own ends. Family, friends, etc. They can be charming and appear super intelligent because they lack emotional baggage like conscience for conning or self doubt for executing plans or figuring out how to work and manipulate people. Their goal is one thing "how can I squeeze every benefit out of everything around me and avoid consequences". Many web searches for sociopath+trolling can reveal some understanding of what goes on via internet or multiplayer games. Any game which allows a sociopath to revel in their own sadistic and destructive impulses is going to draw them like a moth to a flame. It has to, they're following their mechanisms just like people who actually have a conscience follow theirs.
this is all the fault of some people i made up
no there's a difference between those imaginary people and these other people i invented please be sure to categorise nonexistant classifications of fantastic people correctly in the future as we head towards a wonderful world of imagination together and blame fake things for our problems |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2763
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:06:10 -
[318] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:La Nariz wrote:You're making a claim about how the brain works that is literally neuroscience. Neuroscience is the study of the nervous system. Your feelings are related to the biochemistry of the brain, sure, but every discussion about feelings is not neuroscience.
See my above post and if you are still confused come to my office hours.
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Angeal MacNova
LankTech
237
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:08:41 -
[319] - Quote
http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Emotional_Investments.html |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6063
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:10:03 -
[320] - Quote
i miss dinsdale, if he were able to post we would all be arguing with/laughing at him instead of bickering between ourselves.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10231
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:10:33 -
[321] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Emotional_Investments.html
That was a good laugh. Next time try citing something that, you know, doesn't look like it was coded in the 90s.
Your Google-fu is weak.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10686
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:11:26 -
[322] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:La Nariz wrote:You're making a claim about how the brain works that is literally neuroscience. Neuroscience is the study of the nervous system. Your feelings are related to the biochemistry of the brain, sure, but every discussion about feelings is not neuroscience. See my above post and if you are still confused come to my office hours. That was a timely edit I guess. And if you had office hours I would definitely never go to them if that's the totality of your debate skills. |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
237
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:15:28 -
[323] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Emotional_Investments.html That was a good laugh. Next time try citing something that, you know, doesn't look like it was coded in the 90s. Your Google-fu is weak.
Yeah cause you know, someone with a PhD in psychology wouldn't know what they're talking about and an anonymous armchair expert such as yourself would |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2763
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:16:13 -
[324] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:La Nariz wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:La Nariz wrote:You're making a claim about how the brain works that is literally neuroscience. Neuroscience is the study of the nervous system. Your feelings are related to the biochemistry of the brain, sure, but every discussion about feelings is not neuroscience. See my above post and if you are still confused come to my office hours. That was a timely edit I guess. And if you had office hours I would definitely never go to them if that's the totality of your debate skills.
I don't need to debate people I out rank and who don't have any understanding of the field they are trying to talk about. It only lends their bad argument more credibility.
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Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
10687
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:19:17 -
[325] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:I don't need to debate people I out rank and who don't have any understanding of the field they are trying to talk about. It only lends their bad argument more credibility. People you out rank? What world are you living in? I would say we should just agree to disagree but I get the feeling that's never going to happen. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2763
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:19:22 -
[326] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Emotional_Investments.html That was a good laugh. Next time try citing something that, you know, doesn't look like it was coded in the 90s. Your Google-fu is weak. Yeah cause you know, someone with a PhD in psychology wouldn't know what they're talking about and an anonymous armchair expert such as yourself would
It's some kind of blog and not peer reviewed or sourced well so yeah it's essentially elephant dung. Do try again though research is a good thing to do and can only help you. Try PMC their articles don't have a pay wall.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4086
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:20:29 -
[327] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:La Nariz wrote:I don't need to debate people I out rank and who don't have any understanding of the field they are trying to talk about. It only lends their bad argument more credibility. People you out rank? What world are you living in? I would say we should just agree to disagree but I get the feeling that's never going to happen. we disagree when i say we disagree and not before, buddy |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2763
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:20:33 -
[328] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:La Nariz wrote:I don't need to debate people I out rank and who don't have any understanding of the field they are trying to talk about. It only lends their bad argument more credibility. People you out rank? What world are you living in? I would say we should just agree to disagree but I get the feeling that's never going to happen.
The same one you do, yes I out rank you you're welcome to Internet detective my LinkedIn page. Maybe ripard teg can help you.
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Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
123
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:21:05 -
[329] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Emotional_Investments.html That was a good laugh. Next time try citing something that, you know, doesn't look like it was coded in the 90s. Your Google-fu is weak. Yeah cause you know, someone with a PhD in psychology wouldn't know what they're talking about and an anonymous armchair expert such as yourself would
You might be surprised how many people with Ph.D.'s have no idea what they're talking about. Look up the term diploma mill.
A bitter vet trying to start anew.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4086
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:24:09 -
[330] - Quote
Jean Luc Lemmont wrote:You might be surprised how many people with Ph.D.'s have no idea what they're talking about. Look up the term diploma mill. i like the article i just think the person who linked it only read the title |
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Angeal MacNova
LankTech
237
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:31:49 -
[331] - Quote
While it may not be a peer review paper, it is certainly reasonable to say that someone with the educational back ground and years experience would know what they are talking about (more so than anyone here) even if just a blog by such an expert. You'd probably have a hard time finding a peer reviewed paper about emotional investments within video games.
The article may be about the benefits of giving and receiving, it does tie it in with emotional investment which does well to shed some light on what it means to be emotionally invested. As a simple act of giving/receiving between you and a stranger would be certainly something some individuals would see as not having anything to do with emotional investment based on their current arguments when the truth of the matter is that it does.
This is because in order for something to trigger an emotion in you (whether it's joy, happiness, anger, frustration, etc.) , it requires emotional investment.
However, it looks as though people are confused and want to equate emotional investment with emotional attachment.
It's possible to be emotionally invested without becoming emotionally attached. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6065
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:33:42 -
[332] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote: it is certainly reasonable to say that someone with the educational back ground and years experience would know what they are talking about that rather depend upon what thy are talking about though
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2763
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:33:50 -
[333] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:While it may not be a peer review paper, it is certainly reasonable to say that someone with the educational back ground and years experience would know what they are talking about (more so than anyone here) even if just a blog by such an expert. You'd probably have a hard time finding a peer reviewed paper about emotional investments within video games.
The article may be about the benefits of giving and receiving, it does tie it in with emotional investment which does well to shed some light on what it means to be emotionally invested. As a simple act of giving/receiving between you and a stranger would be certainly something some individuals would see as not having anything to do with emotional investment based on their current arguments when the truth of the matter is that it does.
This is because in order for something to trigger an emotion in you (whether it's joy, happiness, anger, frustration, etc.) , it requires emotional investment.
However, it looks as though people are confused and want to equate emotional investment with emotional attachment.
It's possible to be emotionally invested without becoming emotionally attached.
Unfortunately it isn't peer review is there for a reason. It also is sourced poorly; so again I gave you a source that is free now go bring us back something interesting.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2763
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:43:24 -
[334] - Quote
10.1016/j.chb.2010.03.023
From the abstract that is very relevant to the thread. I ordered it but if any of you have it give us a summary.
"Games without frontiers: On the moral and psychological implications of violating taboos within multi-player virtual spaces"
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4086
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:52:05 -
[335] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:This is because in order for something to trigger an emotion in you (whether it's joy, happiness, anger, frustration, etc.) , it requires emotional investment.
However, it looks as though people are confused and want to equate emotional investment with emotional attachment.
It's possible to be emotionally invested without becoming emotionally attached. the article doesn't say this
and if this line of conversation is only about bloody semantics then i will become very emotional in the thread |
Wallace Trucker
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:55:29 -
[336] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right.
This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do.
This is an issue that human society is going to have to deal with in the near future. Are machines, avatars, robots, or any mechanical or virtual thing responsible for their own actions? Or is the human in control of that machine responsible. (If I command my robot to murder my ex-wife...am I responsible if it does kill her?) |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6067
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 15:57:54 -
[337] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:This is because in order for something to trigger an emotion in you (whether it's joy, happiness, anger, frustration, etc.) , it requires emotional investment.
However, it looks as though people are confused and want to equate emotional investment with emotional attachment.
It's possible to be emotionally invested without becoming emotionally attached. the article doesn't say this and if this line of conversation is only about bloody semantics then i will become very emotional in the thread i fear benny you may become very emotional in the thread
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4091
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 16:01:19 -
[338] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right. This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do. This is an issue that human society is going to have to deal with in the near future. Are machines, avatars, robots, or any mechanical or virtual thing responsible for their own actions? Or is the human in control of that machine responsible. (If I command my robot to murder my ex-wife...am I responsible if it does kill her?) i just played an adventure game where i solved a puzzle involving the only two black characters in the entire trilogy of games
the first black character is an organ-grinder's monkey. the "joke" is that he actually looks like a monkey.
e: let's put "joke" in quote marks to indicate that this isn't very funny at all
after the 'job' becomes available i needed to find a new organ-grinder's monkey, so i forcibly removed the second black character from her boyfriend, tricked her into selling herself into slavery, and earned a commission for my efforts, which was the puzzle's reward
am i a bad person irl |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6067
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 16:02:55 -
[339] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right. This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do. This is an issue that human society is going to have to deal with in the near future. Are machines, avatars, robots, or any mechanical or virtual thing responsible for their own actions? Or is the human in control of that machine responsible. (If I command my robot to murder my ex-wife...am I responsible if it does kill her?) ^^ also has difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. its a role(really important word that), its make believe internet spaceship pixels, it is in no way a reflection of anything other than how i play make believe internet spaceship pixels.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8714
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 16:03:17 -
[340] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Emotional_Investments.html That was a good laugh. Next time try citing something that, you know, doesn't look like it was coded in the 90s. Your Google-fu is weak. Yeah cause you know, someone with a PhD in psychology wouldn't know what they're talking about and an anonymous armchair expert such as yourself would
I've known dozens of stupid people with Doctorates. Just saying.
|
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4091
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 16:06:52 -
[341] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:This is because in order for something to trigger an emotion in you (whether it's joy, happiness, anger, frustration, etc.) , it requires emotional investment.
However, it looks as though people are confused and want to equate emotional investment with emotional attachment.
It's possible to be emotionally invested without becoming emotionally attached. the article doesn't say this and if this line of conversation is only about bloody semantics then i will become very emotional in the thread i fear benny you may become very emotional in the thread i should have known better than to allow myself to become emotionally invested in a forum thread |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6069
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 16:09:06 -
[342] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:This is because in order for something to trigger an emotion in you (whether it's joy, happiness, anger, frustration, etc.) , it requires emotional investment.
However, it looks as though people are confused and want to equate emotional investment with emotional attachment.
It's possible to be emotionally invested without becoming emotionally attached. the article doesn't say this and if this line of conversation is only about bloody semantics then i will become very emotional in the thread i fear benny you may become very emotional in the thread i should have known better than to allow myself to become emotionally invested in a forum thread you should try becoming a sociopath dude, all the cool kids are doing it.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Wallace Trucker
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 17:05:34 -
[343] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Wallace Trucker wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right. This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do. This is an issue that human society is going to have to deal with in the near future. Are machines, avatars, robots, or any mechanical or virtual thing responsible for their own actions? Or is the human in control of that machine responsible. (If I command my robot to murder my ex-wife...am I responsible if it does kill her?) ^^ also has difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. its a role ( really important word that), its make believe internet spaceship pixels, it is in no way a reflection of anything other than how i play make believe internet spaceship pixels.
just another justification for YOUR actions, or a split personality disorder. You are who you are or playing at being something your not, either way the pixels are under YOUR control and only do what YOU tell them to do. Which hopefully involve a thought process. That should include, is this action I'm about to take right or wrong.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8717
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 17:19:06 -
[344] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:
just another justification for YOUR actions, or a split personality disorder. You are who you are or playing at being something your not,
ah, so your name is really Wallace Trucker. You are really a space ship pilot and the State War Academy is a real school. Otherwise you'd be ....playing at being something you are not.
Quote: either way the pixels are under YOUR control and only do what YOU tell them to do. Which hopefully involve a thought process. That should include, is this action I'm about to take right or wrong.
Here is a link to right or wrong in EVE Online.
Edit, everyone, read Wallace Trucker's post 3 times, then come back here and post why we're wrong to think some of these folks (who take this stuff to seriously and who apply their real life morality to a video game) are actually crazy. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6080
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 17:25:21 -
[345] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Wallace Trucker wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right. This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do. This is an issue that human society is going to have to deal with in the near future. Are machines, avatars, robots, or any mechanical or virtual thing responsible for their own actions? Or is the human in control of that machine responsible. (If I command my robot to murder my ex-wife...am I responsible if it does kill her?) ^^ also has difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. its a role ( really important word that), its make believe internet spaceship pixels, it is in no way a reflection of anything other than how i play make believe internet spaceship pixels. just another justification for YOUR actions, or a split personality disorder. You are who you are or playing at being something your not, either way the pixels are under YOUR control and only do what YOU tell them to do. Which hopefully involve a thought process. That should include, is this action I'm about to take right or wrong. *pinches nose*
are you familiar with any of these concepts?
Role Play
Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role. While the Oxford English Dictionary offers a definition of role-playing as "the changing of one's behaviour to fulfill a social role", in the field of psychology, the term is used more loosely in four senses:
To refer to the playing of roles generally such as in a theatre, or educational setting;
To refer to taking a role of an existing character or person and acting it out with a partner taking someone else's role, often involving different genres of practice; To refer to a wide range of games including role-playing video game, play-by-mail games and more; To refer specifically to role-playing games.[2]
Acting
Acting is the work of an actor or actress, which is a person in theatre, television, film, or any other storytelling medium who tells the story by portraying a character and, usually, speaking or singing the written text or play.
make believe
Make believe is a loosely structured form of role-playing that generally has no rules except to stay in character, and requires no specific props. It is normally restricted to young, pre-pubescent children, and aside from its straightforward purpose of fun can sometimes also serve the purpose of allowing children to explore adult roles and relationships. Make believe play can reveal a great deal about a child's psychological state, perception of gender roles, home life and interpretation of the world that is around them.
if not , you should probably remedy that.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
689
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 17:34:20 -
[346] - Quote
Test server best server. Sorry for your loss but make an effort to find like minded people as yourself and you will be much better off.
In all seriousness mistakes on test server cost way less |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21043
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 17:36:01 -
[347] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do. Eve is an MMORPG, RPG (role playing game) being the pertinent part in this instance. Which part of the words ROLE PLAYING GAME do you not understand?
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2769
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 17:47:16 -
[348] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote: chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.
^^ difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right. This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do. This is an issue that human society is going to have to deal with in the near future. Are machines, avatars, robots, or any mechanical or virtual thing responsible for their own actions? Or is the human in control of that machine responsible. (If I command my robot to murder my ex-wife...am I responsible if it does kill her?)
Schizophrenia_and_autism.txt
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Wallace Trucker
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 17:57:03 -
[349] - Quote
^^ also has difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions. its a role (really important word that), its make believe internet spaceship pixels, it is in no way a reflection of anything other than how i play make believe internet spaceship pixels.[/quote
just another justification for YOUR actions, or a split personality disorder. You are who you are or playing at being something your not, either way the pixels are under YOUR control and only do what YOU tell them to do. Which hopefully involve a thought process. That should include, is this action I'm about to take right or wrong. [/quote] *pinches nose*
are you familiar with any of these concepts?
Role Play
Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role. While the Oxford English Dictionary offers a definition of role-playing as "the changing of one's behaviour to fulfill a social role", in the field of psychology, the term is used more loosely in four senses:
To refer to the playing of roles generally such as in a theatre, or educational setting;
To refer to taking a role of an existing character or person and acting it out with a partner taking someone else's role, often involving different genres of practice; To refer to a wide range of games including role-playing video game, play-by-mail games and more; To refer specifically to role-playing games.[2]
Acting
Acting is the work of an actor or actress, which is a person in theatre, television, film, or any other storytelling medium who tells the story by portraying a character and, usually, speaking or singing the written text or play.
make believe
Make believe is a loosely structured form of role-playing that generally has no rules except to stay in character, and requires no specific props. It is normally restricted to young, pre-pubescent children, and aside from its straightforward purpose of fun can sometimes also serve the purpose of allowing children to explore adult roles and relationships. Make believe play can reveal a great deal about a child's psychological state, perception of gender roles, home life and interpretation of the world that is around them.
if not , you should probably remedy that.[/quote]
I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8723
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:00:49 -
[350] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote: And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.
So you've never heard of Grand Theft Auto it seems.
How boring would multiplayer games be if no one ever played the bad guy?
|
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2770
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:01:24 -
[351] - Quote
We aren't responsible for maintaining other people's point of view, awareness or understanding.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6085
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:12:23 -
[352] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. http://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg
Quote: And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me. because playing Allan from accounting is too edgy for me
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1197
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:14:05 -
[353] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:because playing Allan from accounting is too edgy for me Elite RP~
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4100
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:18:56 -
[354] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me. *benny ohu takes a long draw on his cigarette*
the thing you got to understand, that i don't expect you to understand, right, is that sometimes the man doesn't choose the Life. sometimes the Life chooses you, son, and you got to accept that or accept a bullet in your head
*benny starts choking on the smoke because benny's never smoked before on account of smoking causes cancer* |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4100
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:20:35 -
[355] - Quote
oh man i should have gone with chewing tobacco that would have been so much more badass |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21044
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:26:28 -
[356] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. Evidentially not
Quote:But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. As stated earlier Eve is an MMORPG, as such it's fairly reasonable to assume that the people who are playing it are role playing regardless of whether or not you are familiar with who the other person really is
Quote:And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people Because you're able to is as good a reason as any, most MMORPGs cast you almost exclusively in the role of a hero, being a hero gets boring after a while.
Quote:this also concerns me. What concerns me is your inability to differentiate between reality and fantasy, your complete fail at quoting is also slightly disconcerting.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8724
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:27:10 -
[357] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Wallace Trucker wrote:And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me. *benny ohu takes a long draw on his cigarette* the thing you got to understand, that i don't expect you to understand, right, is that sometimes the man doesn't choose the Life. sometimes the Life chooses you, son, and you got to accept that or accept a bullet in your head *benny starts choking on the smoke because benny's never smoked before on account of smoking causes cancer*
Sometimes people say they fell out of their chair laughing. Well I did actually fall out of this one (freaking wheel snagged on something and I was reading this as I was getting up to answer my phone). Thanks to you I have a sore left ass cheek.
Since I don't know you real name, the incoming law suit will just be "People vs Benny Ohu"
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2772
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:30:36 -
[358] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:oh man i should have gone with chewing tobacco that would have been so much more badass
Glass of expensive liqueur.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2772
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 18:31:28 -
[359] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Wallace Trucker wrote:I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. Evidently not . Quote:But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. As stated earlier Eve is an MMORPG, as such it's fairly reasonable to assume that the people who are playing it are role playing regardless of whether or not you are familiar with who the other person really is Quote:And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people Because you're able to is as good a reason as any, most MMORPGs cast you almost exclusively in the role of a hero, being a hero gets boring after a while. Quote:this also concerns me. What concerns me is your inability to differentiate between reality and fantasy, your complete fail at quoting is also slightly disconcerting.
That last part is schizophrenia or a component of it.
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1001
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 19:56:32 -
[360] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote:
I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.
While I'm no fan of the role Ralph-King Griffin has taken on in Eve (ganking players) I do accept it's part of an open world PvP RPG game like Eve. When you sign up on a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) you can rest assured that everyone plays a role, some lie close to who they are in reality, while many personailties differ alot between their real self and the virtual avatar they play. Roleplaying a thief & assassin is a very common role people assume in manyy RPG's, it's why there's a Thief/Rogue/Assassin class in most RPGs.
Note, I'm not defending ganking, but I am defending the freedom people have in taking whatever role they want to be, from Hero to Villain and anything in between. After all, a PVP game without opponents would die out quickly. As for me, I take precautions to minimize ganking on myself, by choosing less travelled rotues & transport stuff with appropriate ships or fly with appropriate fits.
Oh, and if you wodner my role in Eve? It's reporter, I report on various shenanigans in eve from an ingame perspective, like 'Ganker Ganked!', showing that Eve is not a game of black & white, but just various shades of grey.
Aurora Project expands the Arcology
The result of the YC116 Sleeper data research race: Tech 3 Destroyers!
|
|
Crimson Nirnroots
Compliance Munitions
11
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 20:11:20 -
[361] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:Note, I'm not defending ganking, but I am defending the freedom people have in taking whatever role they want to be, from Hero to Villain and anything in between. After all, a PVP game without opponents would die out quickly. As for me, I take precautions to minimize ganking on myself, by choosing less travelled rotues & transport stuff with appropriate ships or fly with appropriate fits. Oh, and if you wodner my role in Eve? It's reporter, I report on various shenanigans in eve from an ingame perspective, like 'Ganker Ganked!', showing that Eve is not a game of black & white, but just various shades of grey.
Love this part. The best thing that can happen to any Sandbox is diversity.
New view points, ways of thinking, stories with villains and heroes, culture and lore. Almost entirely player created and most certainly player driven.
My role? A dapper salesman of Antimatter from the great Caldari state. My best customers are perhaps the agents and Knights of CODE and the New Order, as I can only imagine pilots aren't paying ~500isk a hit for faction just to pop rats in highsec .
Antimatter, now with more Nirnroots.
|
admiral root
Red Galaxy
1736
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 21:39:58 -
[362] - Quote
Wallace Trucker wrote: And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.
Darth Vader is the coolest bad guy ever, and he was a criminal who shot people and stole from them... on a galactic scale. Does George Lucas concern you, or just David Prowse?
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21055
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 21:42:51 -
[363] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Wallace Trucker wrote: And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me. Darth Vader is the coolest bad guy ever, and he was a criminal who shot people and stole from them... on a galactic scale. Does George Lucas concern you, or just David Prowse? Bearing in mind that the guy who played Darth Vader also dressed up in green and taught generations of children how to cross the road without ending up dead.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Serene Repose
1569
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 21:58:49 -
[364] - Quote
Derrick Miles wrote:Serene Repose wrote:I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.
They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more.
a.) Our society generates sociopaths as a natural result of its nature.
b.) It's been happening so long people now think it IS human nature.
c.) Anyone, just anyone, can access the internet.
d.) Why wouldn't they find EVE the perfect environment?
e.) Haven't I been saying this for years now?
"The fault is not in our stars, Brutus. It is in ourselves." Saying someone is a sociopath for disassociating consequences and their actions in a digital gaming environment is a stretch at best. Were this true, then it's possible to exist in a reality apart from this one we're in.
I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6096
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 22:11:40 -
[365] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:Wallace Trucker wrote:
I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.
While I'm no fan of the role Ralph-King Griffin has taken on in Eve (ganking players) I do accept it's part of an open world PvP RPG game like Eve. When you sign up on a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) you can rest assured that everyone plays a role, some lie close to who they are in reality, while many personailties differ alot between their real self and the virtual avatar they play. Roleplaying a thief & assassin is a very common role people assume in manyy RPG's, it's why there's a Thief/Rogue/Assassin class in most RPGs. Note, I'm not defending ganking, but I am defending the freedom people have in taking whatever role they want to be, from Hero to Villain and anything in between. After all, a PVP game without opponents would die out quickly. As for me, I take precautions to minimize ganking on myself, by choosing less travelled rotues & transport stuff with appropriate ships or fly with appropriate fits. Oh, and if you wodner my role in Eve? It's reporter, I report on various shenanigans in eve from an ingame perspective, like 'Ganker Ganked!', showing that Eve is not a game of black & white, but just various shades of grey. Great post, one minor correction though. I'm not a ganker. legitimate war targets, bear flipping(related to ganking but with considerable nuance involved), lowsec asshattery, targets of opportunity ect ect, I'm not "above" ganking but it would have to be a specific target of interest.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21058
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 22:13:09 -
[366] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Serene Repose wrote:I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.
They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more.
a.) Our society generates sociopaths as a natural result of its nature.
b.) It's been happening so long people now think it IS human nature.
c.) Anyone, just anyone, can access the internet.
d.) Why wouldn't they find EVE the perfect environment?
e.) Haven't I been saying this for years now?
"The fault is not in our stars, Brutus. It is in ourselves." Saying someone is a sociopath for disassociating consequences and their actions in a digital gaming environment is a stretch at best. Were this true, then it's possible to exist in a reality apart from this one we're in. I don't know what reality you live in, but in the one I live in the ability to tell the difference between actions, and their consequences, carried out in a virtual world and those carried out in the real world is a sign of a healthy mind.
Maybe you should seek some help.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Black Panpher
Ganja Inc
2300
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 22:17:02 -
[367] - Quote
Read half the post, hysterical, would read half again. =ƒÿ¥ |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1005
|
Posted - 2014.10.24 23:02:01 -
[368] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Great post, one minor correction though. I'm not a ganker. legitimate war targets, bear flipping(related to ganking but with considerable nuance involved), lowsec asshattery, targets of opportunity ect ect, I'm not "above" ganking but it would have to be a specific target of interest.
Oops, corrected it, that's an error on my side. Still not a career I'd pick (I'm not above PVP, I enjoy it when I get the chance, but I'm just not the solo-pvp kind) Then again, lucky we each pick different careers, it's what keeps Eve interesting, everyone playing their own role & career in eve.
Aurora Project expands the Arcology
The result of the YC116 Sleeper data research race: Tech 3 Destroyers!
|
Nevil Oscillator
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 00:34:43 -
[369] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:What you're doing is like a pretty girl trying to make friends at a nightclub. Yes, you're going to be very quickly disappointed. .
Lasers is about the only similarity that springs to mind.
Another devious suggestion
|
Hemmo Paskiainen
464
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 02:14:25 -
[370] - Quote
Let me put my bitterness asside for once, and take half a hour to explain this to you. I have been on both sides, grieving people in all possible ways and giving away billions at newby's, random people, 'entertainment projects', corpmates and very good fc's that brought in kind entertainment for others (hi Shadeforce, makalu ;)). However the first one asks you the first time if 10b donation is a mistake and offers to send it back and the last one never even wonders how, what or thanks you :p).
But let me keep on track.. lillte bit hard at 03:48am. EVE is a product where a very very high evolvement of emotion occurs. Expecialy when people are around for quit a while. This effects the behavior and attitude towards the game. For example, significant game changes could effect a players experiance in such a way that this emotional attitude gets affected aswell. You could see this as a balanced weight scale that is perfecty balanced when you first play the game. Positive attitude on one side, negative on the other side.
The situations that direcly affects the attitude could exist out of touchpoints. These could exist from out player to player interaction or player to gamedesigner interaction, or visa versa. By now you should get where i am going to. From my personal experiance and hearsay, and your statements, i tend strongly to believe that the scale, is negative at older players. It is simply to test with a playerenquiry and to check if the first sontain though about CCP is positive or negative.
This first association, infuences directly the players state of mind: shall i be kind or be evil. If you assosiate EVE load with negative feelings everytime you play the game, you get terrible bitter and that will be your playingstyle, forumpostings ect. Eventualy you dont enjoy fleeting and you will only log in to chat socialy with pixel friends. Besides that, is EVE also a very addictive game. The risk of falling into a negativity circle is big. Than you will end in a "login in statis but cant be botherd to undock". I have seen that first hand. Its a very rare thing. You boot up the game, willing to play... bit also not. And after a hour or 2 you realize that you are still looking at the station interior.
I hope you get the picure. I hope it does makes sence a bit, as im not re-reading if for any grammar errors or what so ever,
/Hemmo go's to sleep
CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2782
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 02:20:02 -
[371] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:Let me put my bitterness asside for once, and take half a hour to explain this to you. I have been on both sides, grieving people in all possible ways and giving away billions at newby's, random people, 'entertainment projects', corpmates and very good fc's that brought in kind entertainment for others (hi Shadeforce, makalu ;)). However the first one asks you the first time if 10b donation is a mistake and offers to send it back and the last one never even wonders how, what or thanks you :p).
But let me keep on track.. lillte bit hard at 03:48am. EVE is a product where a very very high evolvement of emotion occurs. Expecialy when people are around for quit a while. This effects the behavior and attitude towards the game. For example, significant game changes could effect a players experiance in such a way that this emotional attitude gets affected aswell. You could see this as a balanced weight scale that is perfecty balanced when you first play the game. Positive attitude on one side, negative on the other side.
The situations that direcly affects the attitude could exist out of touchpoints. These could exist from out player to player interaction or player to gamedesigner interaction, or visa versa. By now you should get where i am going to. From my personal experiance and hearsay, and your statements, i tend strongly to believe that the scale, is negative at older players. It is simply to test with a playerenquiry and to check if the first sontain though about CCP is positive or negative.
This first association, infuences directly the players state of mind: shall i be kind or be evil. If you assosiate EVE load with negative feelings everytime you play the game, you get terrible bitter and that will be your playingstyle, forumpostings ect. Eventualy you dont enjoy fleeting and you will only log in to chat socialy with pixel friends. Besides that, is EVE also a very addictive game. The risk of falling into a negativity circle is big. Than you will end in a "login in statis but cant be botherd to undock". I have seen that first hand. Its a very rare thing. You boot up the game, willing to play... bit also not. And after a hour or 2 you realize that you are still looking at the station interior.
I hope you get the picure. I hope it does makes sence a bit, as im not re-reading if for any grammar errors or what so ever,
/Hemmo go's to sleep
Don't get emotionally invested in a video game still rings true.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10239
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 02:42:27 -
[372] - Quote
As with many of my comparisons, I shall go back to that most hallowed of games, Super Mario Brothers.
In Super Mario Brothers, I don't get upset when Mario dies, I don't flip my lid when he falls down the bottomless pit for the 2051st time. That is because I do not get emotionally invested in the game. And that is because I realize that the basic point of the game is for him to die, repeatedly, to provide me a challenge. The entire game is setup in such a fashion that his death is all but inevitable.
And in the face of functionally inevitable loss, acceptance of that possibility is the only appropriate course of action.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4106
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 04:02:14 -
[373] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:(Edit: @ccp: Disclaimer: my idea's and thoughts are my intulectual properties, any usage is forbidden without my concent. (Ignorance is bad, m'kay :mister garrison:) you already gave ccp irrevocable consent vOv |
Nevil Oscillator
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 05:30:11 -
[374] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players..
Hi is this Jita ? I'm new round here, I would like to test the contract system, if I contract this PLEX to you for free, will you let me have it back afterwards ?
Another devious suggestion
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Claud Tiberius
Fidelas Constans
78
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 06:26:49 -
[375] - Quote
What is wrong with EVE in simplest terms?
Not enough ppppsssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh (lots of medium/small things).
Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 06:54:31 -
[376] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:As with many of my comparisons, I shall go back to that most hallowed of games, Super Mario Brothers.
In Super Mario Brothers, I don't get upset when Mario dies, I don't flip my lid when he falls down the bottomless pit for the 2051st time. That is because I do not get emotionally invested in the game. And that is because I realize that the basic point of the game is for him to die, repeatedly, to provide me a challenge. The entire game is setup in such a fashion that his death is all but inevitable.
And in the face of functionally inevitable loss, acceptance of that possibility is the only appropriate course of action.
Well, first of all we are not inside miniluv and do not get to dictate what people should or shouldnt emotionally invest into, to turn the usual excrements around, if you are sick of crybabies, you can quit :)
Second, old arcade games were usually CAREFULLY tuned around the assumption that a teen will play them and thus only rarely (due to a bug for example, or designer was drunk that one day) they would face you with unsurmountable challenges, rpgs and games working around rng and the possibility of infinite influences in general do not work that way, you can do everything perfectly, yet you can still loose.
Third, the neighbor didnt kill your mario, you did, whether we like it or not if the anger or annoyance has a viable target not being oneself, the situation becomes a whole new ballgame, another pitfall of pvp games. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10245
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 12:35:11 -
[377] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote: Well, first of all we are not inside miniluv and do not get to dictate what people should or shouldnt emotionally invest into, to turn the usual excrements around, if you are sick of crybabies, you can quit :)
Why, when I can make them quit instead? It's not like they're actually enjoying the game anyway, if the emo chip on their shoulder is so big that being bumped can upturn their applecart.
Quote: Second, old arcade games
You're thinking of the Mario with Donkey Kong. I am not.
Quote: Third, the neighbor didnt kill your mario, you did, whether we like it or not if the anger or annoyance has a viable target not being oneself, the situation becomes a whole new ballgame, another pitfall of pvp games.
This is that carebear mentality I was talking about, where everything must be someone else's fault.
In EVE Online, especially in highsec, it is mostly your fault when you die. Moreso if you were afk.
It IS their fault, that's why they get so mad about it. Because to admit such a thing would be to confront a flaw, and therefore shatter their falsely inflated self esteem or whatever peacenik term you want to use for their narcissism.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2786
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 13:31:36 -
[378] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:As with many of my comparisons, I shall go back to that most hallowed of games, Super Mario Brothers.
In Super Mario Brothers, I don't get upset when Mario dies, I don't flip my lid when he falls down the bottomless pit for the 2051st time. That is because I do not get emotionally invested in the game. And that is because I realize that the basic point of the game is for him to die, repeatedly, to provide me a challenge. The entire game is setup in such a fashion that his death is all but inevitable.
And in the face of functionally inevitable loss, acceptance of that possibility is the only appropriate course of action. Well, first of all we are not inside miniluv and do not get to dictate what people should or shouldnt emotionally invest into, to turn the usual excrements around, if you are sick of crybabies, you can quit :) Second, old arcade games were usually CAREFULLY tuned around the assumption that a teen will play them and thus only rarely (due to a bug for example, or designer was drunk that one day) they would face you with unsurmountable challenges, rpgs and games working around rng and the possibility of infinite influences in general do not work that way, you can do everything perfectly, yet you can still loose. Third, the neighbor didnt kill your mario, you did, whether we like it or not if the anger or annoyance has a viable target not being oneself, the situation becomes a whole new ballgame, another pitfall of pvp games.
What the hell are you going on about?
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Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
171
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 13:43:04 -
[379] - Quote
All my sympathy is with guy who killed OP. |
Nevil Oscillator
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 13:56:44 -
[380] - Quote
About the only argument that might carry a little weight with me is that the environment does tend to steer capsuleers in that direction. It isn't entirely player choice, there is a large NPC structure of corporations running missions to kill NPC pirates. Where is the player run equivolent ? It doesn't exist because of Concord.
Another devious suggestion
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21078
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 14:15:11 -
[381] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:As with many of my comparisons, I shall go back to that most hallowed of games, Super Mario Brothers.
In Super Mario Brothers, I don't get upset when Mario dies, I don't flip my lid when he falls down the bottomless pit for the 2051st time. That is because I do not get emotionally invested in the game. And that is because I realize that the basic point of the game is for him to die, repeatedly, to provide me a challenge. The entire game is setup in such a fashion that his death is all but inevitable.
And in the face of functionally inevitable loss, acceptance of that possibility is the only appropriate course of action. Well, first of all we are not inside miniluv and do not get to dictate what people should or shouldnt emotionally invest into, to turn the usual excrements around, if you are sick of crybabies, you can quit :) Second, old arcade games were usually CAREFULLY tuned around the assumption that a teen will play them and thus only rarely (due to a bug for example, or designer was drunk that one day) they would face you with unsurmountable challenges, rpgs and games working around rng and the possibility of infinite influences in general do not work that way, you can do everything perfectly, yet you can still loose. Third, the neighbor didnt kill your mario, you did, whether we like it or not if the anger or annoyance has a viable target not being oneself, the situation becomes a whole new ballgame, another pitfall of pvp games. What the hell are you going on about? Goons killed drunk Mario with infinite rpg ammo fired by loose bugs in insurmountable ballgames or some other such nonsense.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Angeal MacNova
LankTech
237
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 14:36:36 -
[382] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players.. Hi is this Jita ? I'm new round here, I would like to test the contract system, if I contract this PLEX to you for free, will you let me have it back afterwards ?
I once put an item up for sale for 500,000 isk. Someone messed up (creating a buy order maybe?) and forgot the decimal. So they bought that item from me for 50,000,000 isk. I messaged them to let them know of this error and asked them if they'd like the 49,500,000 isk back. They said I could just keep it.
I was fairly new to EvE so that much isk was a great boost.
So to answer your question. Yes I would. |
Bezulian Askintosh
The Constantins Constantin Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 15:46:56 -
[383] - Quote
My friend...this is Jita we are talking about...its worse than Harlem 30 years ago. Harlem one of the worse areas of New York 30 years ago |
Nevil Oscillator
35
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 16:43:23 -
[384] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Agree with OP, there is a real lack of honor and integrity from Eve players.. Hi is this Jita ? I'm new round here, I would like to test the contract system, if I contract this PLEX to you for free, will you let me have it back afterwards ? I once put an item up for sale for 500,000 isk. Someone messed up (creating a buy order maybe?) and forgot the decimal. So they bought that item from me for 50,000,000 isk. I messaged them to let them know of this error and asked them if they'd like the 49,500,000 isk back. They said I could just keep it. I was fairly new to EvE so that much isk was a great boost. So to answer your question. Yes I would.
That is possible but all said and done it's not really the contract system that is getting tested there is it ?
Another devious suggestion
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Suz1
Nuclear Enterprises
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 17:40:16 -
[385] - Quote
I encourage my children to play Eve, so they can learn first hand why they shouldn't trust strangers, in an environment where the consequences for trusting strangers won't really hurt them. |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
49
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 18:21:07 -
[386] - Quote
There's really no end to this discussion.
What's perfectly legit to one person is total blasphemy to the other....and then there's everything between the two opposites. There's not even common ground because all common ground lays outside the game... Some play as they would act IRL and some play a role to explore their opposites.
You can play as you want and there are no limits (well there are but you know what i mean).
That's my personal conclusion to this anyway.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 18:44:08 -
[387] - Quote
Suz1 wrote:I encourage my children to play Eve, so they can learn first hand why they shouldn't trust strangers, in an environment where the consequences for trusting strangers won't really hurt them.
Allowing kids to play eve online should be like child abuse same as if you let them watch R rated movies, lol. |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
49
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 18:45:51 -
[388] - Quote
Suz1 wrote:I encourage my children to play Eve, so they can learn first hand why they shouldn't trust strangers, in an environment where the consequences for trusting strangers won't really hurt them.
I really hope you just made this up... i really do
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 19:17:48 -
[389] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:As with many of my comparisons, I shall go back to that most hallowed of games, Super Mario Brothers.
In Super Mario Brothers, I don't get upset when Mario dies, I don't flip my lid when he falls down the bottomless pit for the 2051st time. That is because I do not get emotionally invested in the game. And that is because I realize that the basic point of the game is for him to die, repeatedly, to provide me a challenge. The entire game is setup in such a fashion that his death is all but inevitable.
And in the face of functionally inevitable loss, acceptance of that possibility is the only appropriate course of action. Well, first of all we are not inside miniluv and do not get to dictate what people should or shouldnt emotionally invest into, to turn the usual excrements around, if you are sick of crybabies, you can quit :) Second, old arcade games were usually CAREFULLY tuned around the assumption that a teen will play them and thus only rarely (due to a bug for example, or designer was drunk that one day) they would face you with unsurmountable challenges, rpgs and games working around rng and the possibility of infinite influences in general do not work that way, you can do everything perfectly, yet you can still loose. Third, the neighbor didnt kill your mario, you did, whether we like it or not if the anger or annoyance has a viable target not being oneself, the situation becomes a whole new ballgame, another pitfall of pvp games.
Furthermore, to add to this point, Super Mario Brothers comes fully loaded at the press of a reset button. Eve comes at the PRICE of spending lots of time in order to have that one moment of "eve super mario brothers". If that wasn't true, the people in this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=380238 would never have become so pissy over my claims and suggestions. These same pissy people are the ones also claiming no emotional investment here in this thread. That's epic comedy to me.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6124
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 19:23:38 -
[390] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:Suz1 wrote:I encourage my children to play Eve, so they can learn first hand why they shouldn't trust strangers, in an environment where the consequences for trusting strangers won't really hurt them. I really hope you just made this up... i really do EDIT : Unless they are of a certain age ofcourse... Actually, provided you have the swear filtering for the chat channels set up properly , or better yet, closed completely there's little to expexpose children to, the vast majority of the adult content in eve comes through those channels and private mail so if you monitor their play you can avoid stuff like inappropriate language, jpegs and gifs.
And in answer to your earlier post, no this never ends. this thread crops up consistently I'd say about 2 or 3 times a month, some with more gusto than others but it generally pans out the same, we have the same arguments over the same things and ocasionally someone gets rather worked up about it and rages for pages and pages (not pointing at you, to be fair you cooled off and realised the triviality of it) about how eve is flawed and were all sociopaths for endorsing the predator role (in the only game that's been infamous for years for allowing it) and how they will unsubscribe their eleventytwelvethousand accounts (that they plex) if ccp doesn't ["fix" eve to match their preconceived notions/permaban every one involved/remove PvP in highsec] . we can (and have) recite the whole thing off the top of our heads.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6124
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 19:25:27 -
[391] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:Suz1 wrote:I encourage my children to play Eve, so they can learn first hand why they shouldn't trust strangers, in an environment where the consequences for trusting strangers won't really hurt them. I really hope you just made this up... i really do EDIT : Unless they are of a certain age ofcourse... Actually, provided you have the swear filtering for the chat channels set up properly , or better yet, closed completely there's little to expexpose children to, the vast majority of the adult content in eve comes through those channels and private mail so if you monitor their play you can avoid stuff like inappropriate language, jpegs and gifs.
And in answer to your earlier post, no this never ends. this thread crops up consistently I'd say about 2 or 3 times a month, some with more gusto than others but it generally pans out the same, we have the same arguments over the same things and ocasionally someone gets rather worked up about it and rages for pages and pages (not pointing at you, to be fair you cooled off and realised the triviality of it) about how eve is flawed and were all sociopaths for endorsing the predator role (in the only game that's been infamous for years for allowing it) and how they will unsubscribe their eleventytwelvethousand accounts (that they plex) if ccp doesn't ["fix" eve to match their preconceived notions/permaban every one involved/remove PvP in highsec] . we can (and have) recite the whole thing off the top of our heads.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
265
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 19:27:40 -
[392] - Quote
There are many things wrong with EVE but none are mentioned or alluded to in the OP. |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
51
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 20:03:05 -
[393] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Brochan McLeod wrote:Suz1 wrote:I encourage my children to play Eve, so they can learn first hand why they shouldn't trust strangers, in an environment where the consequences for trusting strangers won't really hurt them. I really hope you just made this up... i really do EDIT : Unless they are of a certain age ofcourse... Actually, provided you have the swear filtering for the chat channels set up properly , or better yet, closed completely there's little to expexpose children to, the vast majority of the adult content in eve comes through those channels and private mail so if you monitor their play you can avoid stuff like inappropriate language, jpegs and gifs. And in answer to your earlier post, no this never ends. this thread crops up consistently I'd say about 2 or 3 times a month, some with more gusto than others but it generally pans out the same, we have the same arguments over the same things and ocasionally someone gets rather worked up about it and rages for pages and pages (not pointing at you, to be fair you cooled off and realised the triviality of it ) about how eve is flawed and were all sociopaths for endorsing the predator role (in the only game that's been infamous for years for allowing it) and how they will unsubscribe their eleventytwelvethousand accounts (that they plex) if ccp doesn't ["fix" eve to match their preconceived notions/permaban every one involved/remove PvP in highsec] . we can ( and have) recite the whole thing off the top of our heads.
To be fair i actually introduced my daughter to World of Warcraft some years ago. I was over it like a hawk ofcourse but it astounded me how easily (and without any knowledge of the English language) she picked up a friend to play with (who, turned out was also monitored by a parent ... dumb coincidence ofc. but still :) )
To come back to the issue at hand... its not really an issue anymore for me i'd say.
I am still convinced there's a bunch of lowlife's in this game but thats true for any other game out there. Im not a great fan of tear-pulling either... i find it rather hurtful and childish behavior. But thats my personal view on it... im a bit of a worrior on such matters IRL as well, so there.
I did come away with a different point of view though (always wanted to say that...here's to you Johnny ) i am now setting up a character to PvP with. Im going to try out Solo Factional Warfare as im useless in groups. (appearantly its possible)
Studying it as we speak (im not much for jumping in and need to read about it first, its half the fun for me. )
So here goes...
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Caldari Citizen 20120308
State War Academy Caldari State
43
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 20:14:51 -
[394] - Quote
floating damage ticks would be cool instead of plain text on the screen. |
Terminator Cindy
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 20:54:36 -
[395] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Like the school bullies ( which is what most of those sissies are in real life ), they do that because they don't have the balls for 1v1 in true equal combat mode. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2787
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 20:59:55 -
[396] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:Aeon Plex wrote:We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour. Like the school bullies ( which is what most of those sissies are in real life ), they do that because they don't have the balls for 1v1 in true equal combat mode.
~space honor e-bushido~
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21086
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 21:04:09 -
[397] - Quote
Terminator Cindy wrote:Aeon Plex wrote:We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour. Like the school bullies ( which is what most of those sissies are in real life ), they do that because they don't have the balls for 1v1 in true equal combat mode. Yeah, but no.
OP trusted someone they didn't know, in a game where trust is more valuable than isk, kinda dumb tbh.
As for your comment about bullies, you're assuming that what someone does in a virtual world, one with very different rules from those found in the real world, is an accurate reflection of what they're like in real life. That says more about you than it does about them, and that's not a compliment.
TL:DR You're talking out of your arse about people you don't know.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6128
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 21:26:38 -
[398] - Quote
What has the world come to. back in my day you could trust strangers on the internet.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 21:28:21 -
[399] - Quote
It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons. Most of these people are indeed probably either sociopaths or have been abused and take it out on other people in the way that wont get them banned, griefing in a game which has no anti-griefing policies apart from newbie space, which is only one system. Once you're out of there, you can get griefed til the cows come home.
I bet you anything that if a corp of gankers sat outside newbie systems on gates and ganked THOSE people, even though they're carefully avoiding the rules, CCP would ban them, because a 15 day trial that cant get invested enough with "foot in the door" to buy at least one month of Eve Online means worse sales for CCP.
It's totally within the current rules to camp and gank newbies outside of their newbie systems, yet I doubt anyone doing a concerted effort of that would last long.
I mean, I really would like to point out this system flaw. How is it griefing if you do it to newbies in the starter systems, yet not griefing if you do it somewhere else? There's no logic to that. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21087
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 21:40:44 -
[400] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons. Eve is a competitive PvP game, in order for someone to win, somebody else must lose.
Quote:Most of these people are indeed probably either sociopaths or have been abused and take it out on other people in the way that wont get them banned Projection, you're doing it. Eve is a role playing game, it's fairly reasonable to assume that the people you consider to be sociopaths or child abuse victims are actually just playing the villain in a game where playing the villain is explicitly allowed.
Quote: griefing in a game which has no anti-griefing policies apart from newbie space, which is only one system. Once you're out of there, you can get griefed til the cows come home.[ Griefing is defined by CCP, not you. and FYI there's a total of 25 solar systems where it is forbidden, on pain of a ban, to mess with newbies, not 1.
Quote:I bet you anything that if a corp of gankers sat outside newbie systems on gates and ganked THOSE people, even though they're carefully avoiding the rules, CCP would ban them, because a 15 day trial that cant get invested enough with "foot in the door" to buy at least one month of Eve Online means worse sales for CCP.
It's totally within the current rules to camp and gank newbies outside of their newbie systems, yet I doubt anyone doing a concerted effort of that would last long. I'll take that bet.
Quote:I mean, I really would like to point out this system flaw. How is it griefing if you do it to newbies in the starter systems, yet not griefing if you do it somewhere else? There's no logic to that. It falls under taking advantage of a newbies lack of game knowledge, and is only applicable in newbie systems
Attempting to abuse a new playerGÇÖs lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems. This includes, but is not limited to; tricking new players into situations where you or others may open fire on them freely or scamming ISK or assets from them. Source
It's CCP's game, they define griefing and what they say goes. If you think that there's a flaw in their logic I suggest you hit F12 and raise a ticket.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4107
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 21:42:09 -
[401] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons. Most of these people are indeed probably either sociopaths or have been abused and take it out on other people something smells like farts
could it be that someone in the thread is talking out of their arse
13kr1d1 wrote:I bet you anything that if a corp of gankers sat outside newbie systems on gates and ganked THOSE people, even though they're carefully avoiding the rules, CCP would ban them, because a 15 day trial that cant get invested enough with "foot in the door" to buy at least one month of Eve Online means worse sales for CCP.
It's totally within the current rules to camp and gank newbies outside of their newbie systems, yet I doubt anyone doing a concerted effort of that would last long.
I mean, I really would like to point out this system flaw. How is it griefing if you do it to newbies in the starter systems, yet not griefing if you do it somewhere else? There's no logic to that. it's pretty well-known that the gm guideline is 'don't **** with rookies' |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4107
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 21:46:24 -
[402] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Eve comes at the PRICE of spending lots of time in order to have that one moment of "eve super mario brothers". If that wasn't true, the people in this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=380238 would never have become so pissy over my claims and suggestions. These same pissy people are the ones also claiming no emotional investment here in this thread. That's epic comedy to me. the thread in which you complain that people won't pay you isk to do trivial tasks they can do themselves, lay the blame on an unrelated mechanic, demand ccp do something to make up for your failings and rant about ~economy~
that's the thread we're linking here |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10257
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 21:51:26 -
[403] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons.
That, or it's part and parcel of the game.
Pretty sure there's a dev quote floating out there somewhere to that effect. About how having your day ruined by random people is the "cornerstone" of EVE Online.
Now, that kind of thing makes me question the sincerity of anyone who comes into this game with the wrong expectations. I question the motives of people who act like this somehow isn't a thing.
They're either so self deluded that they should enter politics, or they have an ulterior motive.
I take issue with both.
Quote: Most of these people are indeed probably either sociopaths or have been abused and take it out on other people in the way that wont get them banned
Because enjoying non consensual PvP is something only someone who has "been abused" would do, right?
You want to know why I play the way I do? Because of slanderous, maladjusted freaks like you.
There is something wrong with you. Not with anyone who plays games by the rules. There is something direly wrong with the people who want the rules changed to cater to their skewed worldview, to try and legislate their mealthy mouthed excuse for morality in a video game, to try and thought police everyone around them.
Quote: griefing in a game which has no anti-griefing policies apart from newbie space, which is only one system.
Ah, the delights of the brutally ignorant.
No, newbie space is not "one system". If you bothered to look before spouting off, you'd find that it's a fair bit more than that.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
650
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:19:21 -
[404] - Quote
Suz1 wrote:I encourage my children to play Eve, so they can learn first hand why they shouldn't trust strangers, in an environment where the consequences for trusting strangers won't really hurt them. you are a twisted parent Suz. lol
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6133
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:42:42 -
[405] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:or have been abused one fair warning. say that again and you will have a petition.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:44:12 -
[406] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons. Eve is a competitive PvP game, in order for someone to win, somebody else must lose.
What's competitive about ganking highsec miners who make less isk than you in a whole day than you ratting for one hour a day? Logic, please use. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10257
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:51:44 -
[407] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote: What's competitive about ganking highsec miners who make less isk than you in a whole day than you ratting for one hour a day? Logic, please use.
You do realize the game has a destruction based economy, right? The people who make and sell those barges would never make any money without ganking, those things barely ever die any other way.
In an immersive economy like EVE, damn near everything is competitive in some way.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2791
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:54:20 -
[408] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons. Eve is a competitive PvP game, in order for someone to win, somebody else must lose. What's competitive about ganking highsec miners who make less isk than you in a whole day than you ratting for one hour a day? Logic, please use. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:or have been abused one fair warning. say that again and you will have a petition. I work with people who've been abused. I know the signs. I'm sorry if that happened to you which is why this upset you. But our past doesn't excuse our behavior.
You could, I don't know, keep everything in-game that is already in-game instead of trying to connect in-game to out-of-the-game.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21088
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:54:52 -
[409] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons. Eve is a competitive PvP game, in order for someone to win, somebody else must lose. What's competitive about ganking highsec miners who make less isk than you in a whole day than you ratting for one hour a day? Logic, please use. I mine, because I mine in a ship that is fairly hard to gank and I actually tank it, I am somewhat less efficient than a max yield Retriever or Mackinaw in the short term, but I don't have to replace my ship regularly. When other miners in the same belt/system get ganked because they are flying max yield fits and are rather easy to kill, there's less competition for the available ores, which means more is available to me, and I'm unlikely to get ganked because of my choice of mining ship; ergo I make more money than they do in the long term.
I also sell mining ships and modules, if miners get ganked in the systems I sell them in there's a good chance they'll buy their replacements from me.
The picture is bigger than you imagine, logic try using it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:55:15 -
[410] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons. Most of these people are indeed probably either sociopaths or have been abused and take it out on other people something smells like farts could it be that someone in the thread is talking out of their arse 13kr1d1 wrote:I bet you anything that if a corp of gankers sat outside newbie systems on gates and ganked THOSE people, even though they're carefully avoiding the rules, CCP would ban them, because a 15 day trial that cant get invested enough with "foot in the door" to buy at least one month of Eve Online means worse sales for CCP.
It's totally within the current rules to camp and gank newbies outside of their newbie systems, yet I doubt anyone doing a concerted effort of that would last long.
I mean, I really would like to point out this system flaw. How is it griefing if you do it to newbies in the starter systems, yet not griefing if you do it somewhere else? There's no logic to that. it's pretty well-known that the gm guideline is 'don't **** with rookies'
And yet, people trick "rookies" all the time with can bait and all other sorts of things outside those same systems that are "off limits". |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10257
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:55:46 -
[411] - Quote
Leave it to a carebear to bring such an awful topic into the discussion.
And we're supposed to be the sickos.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:57:15 -
[412] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: You could, I don't know, keep everything in-game that is already in-game instead of trying to connect in-game to out-of-the-game.
There is no "in game" without "out of game".
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Leave it to a carebear to bring such an awful topic into the discussion.
And we're supposed to be the sickos.
That's called a strawman. If you're "one of the sickos" and you're trying this, it's really not different than blame shifting. Sling mud on someone else to make them look dirty. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21090
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 22:58:34 -
[413] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:La Nariz wrote: You could, I don't know, keep everything in-game that is already in-game instead of trying to connect in-game to out-of-the-game.
There is no "in game" without "out of game". There is if you can tell the difference between fantasy and reality
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:00:53 -
[414] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:La Nariz wrote: You could, I don't know, keep everything in-game that is already in-game instead of trying to connect in-game to out-of-the-game.
There is no "in game" without "out of game". There is if you can tell the difference between fantasy and reality
Let me rephrase that, in game doesn't exist without out of game. The person, their desires, and CCP's resources. You can't divorce the game from reality because there's an inherent connection between it. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10257
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:02:33 -
[415] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Leave it to a carebear to bring such an awful topic into the discussion.
And we're supposed to be the sickos. That's called a strawman. If you're "one of the sickos" and you're trying this, it's really not different than blame shifting. Sling mud on someone else to make them look dirty.
Yeah, actually, it is called a strawman. That's why carebears like you are so eager to spew such vile things. To put up a smokescreen around your own abberant behavior, and divert attention away from what sick fucks you all are.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:04:41 -
[416] - Quote
You're attempting to call other people vile to try to ad hom invalidate their arguments. That's not a valid way of discussing the issue. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10257
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:06:07 -
[417] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:You're attempting to call other people vile to try to ad hom invalidate their arguments. That's not a valid way of discussing the issue.
Coming from you, after some of the **** you said, that's pretty funny.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21092
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:07:57 -
[418] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:And yet, people trick "rookies" all the time with can bait and all other sorts of things outside those same systems that are "off limits". Speaking of tricking newbies, aren't you the scumbag who wanted to rip newbies off by paying them 60%ish of the going rate for their ore?
You're a despicable hypocrite.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4115
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:09:14 -
[419] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:And yet, people trick "rookies" all the time with can bait and all other sorts of things outside those same systems that are "off limits". what are the quotes indicating here are we doubting the existence of rookies
gamemasters protect rookies from the harsher parts of eve while they're doing the tutorials and learn to control their spaceship. once that's done, they're on their own |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4115
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:11:17 -
[420] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:You're attempting to call other people vile to try to ad hom invalidate their arguments. That's not a valid way of discussing the issue. what "argument"? you accused people of acting a villain in a videogame (specifically designed to allow such acting) due to real life mental problems |
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:12:54 -
[421] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:And yet, people trick "rookies" all the time with can bait and all other sorts of things outside those same systems that are "off limits". Speaking of tricking newbies, aren't you the scumbag who wanted to rip newbies off by paying them 60%ish of the going rate for their ore? You're a hypocrite.
So ganking someone and depriving them of all their ISK is cool, negotiating pay with someone for their ores is scumbag... great. I see why other reasonable people quit this thread.
Serene Repose wrote:I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.
They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more.
a.) Our society generates sociopaths as a natural result of its nature.
b.) It's been happening so long people now think it IS human nature.
c.) Anyone, just anyone, can access the internet.
d.) Why wouldn't they find EVE the perfect environment?
e.) Haven't I been saying this for years now?
"The fault is not in our stars, Brutus. It is in ourselves."
Not completely accurate, but the Gist holds true.Kaarous Aldurald wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:You're attempting to call other people vile to try to ad hom invalidate their arguments. That's not a valid way of discussing the issue. Coming from you, after some of the **** you said, that's pretty funny.
I understand why you're trying to gaslight, but I don't feel like playing that game. I'm hiding your posts from now own. Please do the same if mine offend you so. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4115
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:14:20 -
[422] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:or have been abused one fair warning. say that again and you will have a petition. I work with people who've been abused. I know the signs. I'm sorry if that happened to you which is why this upset you. But our past doesn't excuse our behavior. you've been asked to stop. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10257
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:16:19 -
[423] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote: So ganking someone and depriving them of all their ISK is cool, negotiating pay with someone for their ores is scumbag.
Yep.
At least ganking is honest. You're just an inveterate piece of slime.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21093
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:22:38 -
[424] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:And yet, people trick "rookies" all the time with can bait and all other sorts of things outside those same systems that are "off limits". Speaking of tricking newbies, aren't you the scumbag who wanted to rip newbies off by paying them 60%ish of the going rate for their ore? You're a hypocrite. So ganking someone and depriving them of all their ISK is cool, negotiating pay with someone for their ores is scumbag... great. I'm not the one calling people sociopaths or suggesting that they've been abused because of the way they play a game with very different rules than real life, especially a game that explicitly allows them to be the villain.
What's good for the goose and all that.
Quote:I see why other reasonable people quit this thread. lol, you think that you're a reasonable person, that's rich.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4115
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:23:42 -
[425] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:or have been abused one fair warning. say that again and you will have a petition. I work with people who've been abused. I know the signs. I'm sorry if that happened to you which is why this upset you. But our past doesn't excuse our behavior. you've been asked to stop. And what a world it is when people feigning indignation to damage other people's reputation can actually work. my motivations, whatever they are, do not affect the issue |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:29:07 -
[426] - Quote
Your motivations attempt to conflate the issue with something else.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10264
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:32:03 -
[427] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Your motivations attempt to conflate the issue with something else.
There is no "issue".
There is a legitimate in game activity on my side.
And on yours, there are people who want to force their own risk aversion on everyone around them.
We are right, and you are wrong.
That's it.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6139
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:35:51 -
[428] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Your motivations attempt to conflate the issue with something else.
fyi This is a public board with a permanent record (o7 chribba).
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:43:29 -
[429] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Your motivations attempt to conflate the issue with something else.
fyi This is a public board with a permanent record (o7 chribba).
And? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10264
|
Posted - 2014.10.25 23:46:50 -
[430] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Your motivations attempt to conflate the issue with something else.
fyi This is a public board with a permanent record (o7 chribba). And?
And whatever you have to say, get it out before a mod pops up.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
|
ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
301
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 00:09:25 -
[431] - Quote
"POP" Hello!
This thread has been locked for an hour for maintenance/cleaning and to let the players cool off.
Quote:2. Be respectful toward others at all times.The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
ISD Gallifreyan
Lt. Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCL)
Interstellar Services Department
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21099
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 01:26:38 -
[432] - Quote
ISD Gallifreyan wrote:"POP" Hello! Your TARDIS appears to be malfunctioning, it shouldn't make that popping noise.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Mag's
the united
18096
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 02:01:42 -
[433] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:ISD Gallifreyan wrote:"POP" Hello! Your TARDIS appears to be malfunctioning, it shouldn't make that popping noise. INATL?
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Mag's
the united
18096
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 02:10:09 -
[434] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:It's less about e-bushido and more about the fact that people who play a game with the sole purpose of wanting to ruin someone else's game experience is doing it for very personal reasons. Most of these people are indeed probably either sociopaths or have been abused and take it out on other people in the way that wont get them banned, griefing in a game which has no anti-griefing policies apart from newbie space, which is only one system. Once you're out of there, you can get griefed til the cows come home. So taking your logic to it's ultimate conclusion, would you say that playing chess means you are inclined towards being a murderer?
You're basically saying that playing a game by the rules and mechanics laid out and designed for, means you are somehow mentally defective in that regard.
It's also rather distasteful to accuse those playing a video game, of being abused. Never mind sociopaths. I highly doubt you work in the field tbh and if you do, I worry about your charges.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21101
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 02:15:27 -
[435] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:ISD Gallifreyan wrote:"POP" Hello! Your TARDIS appears to be malfunctioning, it shouldn't make that popping noise. INATL? It was locked for a while, our erstwhile ISD timelord obviously unlocked it again sometime in the past, or was that the future?
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Mag's
the united
18098
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 02:19:27 -
[436] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mag's wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:ISD Gallifreyan wrote:"POP" Hello! Your TARDIS appears to be malfunctioning, it shouldn't make that popping noise. INATL? It was locked for a while, our erstwhile ISD timelord obviously unlocked it again sometime in the past, or was that the future? Is it hoverboard time again?
Or should I whip out my sonic screwdriver?
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21102
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 02:24:12 -
[437] - Quote
Mag's wrote:
Or should I whip out my sonic screwdriver?
Ooer missus
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2542
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 02:25:56 -
[438] - Quote
thread temp locked for some cleaning.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2542
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 02:52:17 -
[439] - Quote
BOOOMM!!! SSSssshhhhhhhh.......drip.......
I do not own a Tardis. I own something that has to be kicked into action, rattles, clanks, is rather rusty, bellows black smoke, vents white plumes and leaks oil all over the place. It also seems to be splattered with Troll blood. It gets me there every time!
That said, I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
Thread re-opened.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
601
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 03:27:39 -
[440] - Quote
Wow. I can't believe I actually read the whole thing... oh wait, I'm stuck in a guard shack for 12 hours tonight, that would be why.
After years of carebearing I made this absolutely stunning discovery. PVE in EVE is pretty boring and repetitive. Run the same missions over and over, mine the same rocks over and over... it becomes more like work than entertainment. You end up with ISK becoming the metric of success by which you measure yourself, because fun stops being part of the equation. Unless you choose to at no point in your career are you required to ever interact with another player as you grind mindlessly for ISK.
This is Hell. It is not fun.
Without other players acting in competition with each other, interfering with each other, shooting at each other this is all that EVE would be. Players generate the content in EVE, unlike in other MMO's. Villains are necessary in order for heroes to exist.
Like Ralph, I also try to be friendly and courteous to those who I shoot, new or old. It's something of a litmus test, if you would, to see how they react to having another player enter their bubble and change things up for them. I generally try to strike up a conversation with them after the fact, or during the incident and see what they have to say on the matter. The results are varied. Some folks take it pretty well and we end up exchanging fits and advice on how to handle similar situations in the future. If they're very new and a good sport about it I've been known to even slot them some ISK to help take the sting out of the blow. On occasion I find someone who becomes interested in what we do and wants to learn how themselves... this is the big win in my book.
Then there are the others. The silent, who it seems are simply unreachable, and the ragers who don't want to be reached. There's little that can be done with those who seem to only be able to react by spewing torrents of hate filled vitriol aside from collecting those tears. (and sharing them with friends)
TL;DR? Shooting someone in the face can be a great ice breaker for conversation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxNW5dDYEY Just a means of communication... |
|
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
670
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 04:05:11 -
[441] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Wow. I can't believe I actually read the whole thing... oh wait, I'm stuck in a guard shack for 12 hours tonight, that would be why. After years of carebearing I made this absolutely stunning discovery. PVE in EVE is pretty boring and repetitive. Run the same missions over and over, mine the same rocks over and over... it becomes more like work than entertainment. You end up with ISK becoming the metric of success by which you measure yourself, because fun stops being part of the equation. Unless you choose to at no point in your career are you required to ever interact with another player as you grind mindlessly for ISK. This is Hell. It is not fun. Without other players acting in competition with each other, interfering with each other, shooting at each other this is all that EVE would be. Players generate the content in EVE, unlike in other MMO's. Villains are necessary in order for heroes to exist. Like Ralph, I also try to be friendly and courteous to those who I shoot, new or old. It's something of a litmus test, if you would, to see how they react to having another player enter their bubble and change things up for them. I generally try to strike up a conversation with them after the fact, or during the incident and see what they have to say on the matter. The results are varied. Some folks take it pretty well and we end up exchanging fits and advice on how to handle similar situations in the future. If they're very new and a good sport about it I've been known to even slot them some ISK to help take the sting out of the blow. On occasion I find someone who becomes interested in what we do and wants to learn how themselves... this is the big win in my book. Then there are the others. The silent, who it seems are simply unreachable, and the ragers who don't want to be reached. There's little that can be done with those who seem to only be able to react by spewing torrents of hate filled vitriol aside from collecting those tears. (and sharing them with friends) TL;DR? Shooting someone in the face can be a great ice breaker for conversation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxNW5dDYEY Just a means of communication...
Agree 100%.
I just wish that being a hero was more rewarding. As it stands, the villains get all the loot. So, everyone ends up being a villain and i think that's what the OP is talking about.
[center]If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...[/center]
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
602
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 04:19:24 -
[442] - Quote
Being the good guy in EVE is a tricky thing to be honest. It requires effort and coordination and smarts in order to be effective at all, and oftentimes it will be against opponents that are watching your every move and changing their tactics to try and counter your own. In short, it's hard and as such it's not going to attract as many people as the dark side will. Plus, as you stated, the pay sucks. Unless groups of PVE'rs are willing to pay well for mercenaries to play the role of White Knight for them, there's little incentive to bother. Just my opinion on the matter though. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
188
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 04:53:28 -
[443] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Being the good guy in EVE is a tricky thing to be honest. It requires effort and coordination and smarts in order to be effective at all, and oftentimes it will be against opponents that are watching your every move and changing their tactics to try and counter your own. In short, it's hard and as such it's not going to attract as many people as the dark side will. Plus, as you stated, the pay sucks. Unless groups of PVE'rs are willing to pay well for mercenaries to play the role of White Knight for them, there's little incentive to bother. Just my opinion on the matter though.
+1 |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
603
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 06:24:45 -
[444] - Quote
Thinking further on the matter... What a villain can accomplish in EVE drastically differs from other games. In most other games the 'bad guys' are little more than Snidely Whiplash wannabes, twirling their mustachios and cackling evilly as the npc damsel is tied to the train tracks. Defeating them is rewarded with shiny things, failure may result in the loss of a couple hours worth of xps and maybe some repairs to gear, depending on the game. In short not much is on the line.
Here things are drastically different. Failure means losing your ships, structures in space, territory, and implants... months of effort and billions in ISK can be lost in a very short while. The reward for winning may be simply living to fly another day in your home area.
Players who come from those other games can have a hard time wrapping their heads around this, and that makes for some seriously unpleasant realities slamming home when it happens to them. This applies to new players as well, as many of them come here with some flawed expectations engendered by what they have heard about other MMO's. The longer it takes before they feel the sting of real loss and begin to understand the true nature of the universe they play in, the more it's going to hurt.
One of the worst things we can do is to help foster a false sense of safety and security in others playing the game. That illusion needs to be dispelled as quickly as possible, so that people can make educated decisions regarding how they go about their daily activities in New Eden. Once they accept the realities, they can adapt to them and eventually thrive. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21105
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 06:26:09 -
[445] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I own something that has to be kicked into action, rattles, clanks, is rather rusty, bellows black smoke, vents white plumes and leaks oil all over the place. It also seems to be splattered with Troll blood. It gets me there every time! It's a British car built sometime between 1955 and 1975 isn't it?
Sorry couldn't resist
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 06:54:00 -
[446] - Quote
Bad guys are the difference between EVE and other MMOs
I don't personally gank or awox etc but I have no problem with those that do.
Even if you are carebearing it up, being smart about what you do, where you do it and the precautions that you take whilst doing said activities - dscan, watch local, tank properly your freighter/ barge etc are what makes the game interesting and better than the others.
I still feel my heartbeat increasing everytime i go to lowsec and thats why I play.
I find the people who lose a ship and complain then quit are people who don't know. EVE is a game that requires some thought and reading and asking questions to get ahead.
When I first started I joined some crappy corp who provided no help to me as a noob at all. we got wardecced by a single man corp and I lost my Caracal to an assault frig on a gate. I hadn't been told about how to shipfit properly or what to do in a wardec. I left that corp and joined another, we got wardecced by the Devil Warrior Alliance. I asked my CEO, what I had to do to avoid being a victim again and he told me and told me about stuff to read up on myself. I didn't lose a single ship and my lv3 mission running was able to carry on.
Too many people expect to succeed at this game without actually understanding how it all works together |
Aeon Plex
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 07:43:35 -
[447] - Quote
Wow :-) It means a lot that so much conversation has taken place on this post. I honestly read every single reply!! It has taken me 2 days, as 15 pages is a lot to take in on one go, especially as emotionally charged as this thread is, but here I am at the end of the thread. If I may, a quick update, and a few words.
Firstly, I never meant to sound like I wanted anything to change from CCP's end. I think that this game is essentially here in the appropriate form. So please don't think that I was asking for CCP to make a change to add an extra security blanket and expecting them to ensure my experience. Quite the contrary, as I was pointing out that the players guide and create the experience, ("what is so wrong and so right at the same time") and if players don't understand that, and constantly treat players like crap for no reason, they may find themselves playing alone. It is undeniable that if everyone acted like that, the game would die very quickly. We have paper and markers, and can draw whatever we want. Let's not draw a turd :-) We have that freedom in EVE, but how would that benefit anyone or create something beautiful or engaging?
One of the things that stuck with me in the replies was about stealing a beer can and thinking your some kind of diabolical genius. The 'scam' I experienced was dull, not worth either of our time, and that's what I wanted to point out. I think that any player that has a real Joker vs Batman moment is gonna love that and want to keep playing no matter which side they were on. It's the childish and uninspired acts of just being a jerk to be a jerk that has a huge potential to drive people away. I dunno, I just wasn't impressed, that's all.
and so... I have to give you a quick update! I have spent the last 2 days in Null Sec, though 2 WHs, trying to find a kick-ass Relic Site so I could get back my Garmur. I've had no luck! LoL!
but I logged in tonight and found that a player had sent me a cool 135 mil ISK. Enough for my Garmur and it's mods. I would have wandered around in Null for another week, because I'm very driven to experience EVE, in all it's ups and downs, but THIS kind of stuff is why I always keep fighting and can maintain that drive. There are AWESOME players in this game, people that WANT to build a fun experience, and I will continue to play and am happy knowing that there are players that will help you back up from the ground when you get kicked, even if it was a cheap shot that put you there.
If you are someone that mentioned that you help players, talk to them after a fight, help them get back in a new ship even after you kill them, invite them into your Corp after you pod them so you can teach them how to avoid that again, then my advice is to KEEP doing that. You are making this game a valuable human experience, and that's what I think that this game deserves.
I do want to say, that as far as separation of game / RL... Playing Call of Duty doesn't mean that people can ascertain that you would run around shooting hundreds of ppl. HOWEVER, if you are on the mic, playing CoD and calling everyone slurs and treating them like crap, then it's a pretty logical step to say, that you probably aren't the nicest person in RL as well. So I don't want to hear that how you treat other players is not indicative of who you are as a person. There is a difference between roleplaying as a villain, and just being disruptive to other people's experience for the sake of hurting their experience.
I do want to acknowledge that when I am in Null or Low, I LOVE knowing that everyone wants to kill me. I go there for that. But I am out there ASKING for that when I am out there. Those kinds of 'villains' I have never been mad about when they kill me. I give them a quick o7 in local if / when I get away, it feels exhilarating, and I can't blame them when they do kill me, and that is a fantastic part of this game that I would never in a million years change.
So I wanted to say a very special thank you to that player that helped me out today, and ensured that I can get my Garmur back. I loved that ship, and I love EVE. I won't be accepting duels from strangers anytime soon, and it's a shame that part of the game doesn't seem to function as well as I thought it would when I heard about it. I will still duel my friends and corpmates.
Thanks to everyone that participated here. I really enjoyed everyone's perspective.
|
Captain Dunzel
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 17:10:47 -
[448] - Quote
Cool Story Dude. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8737
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 17:46:44 -
[449] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:Wow :-) It means a lot that so much conversation has taken place on this post. I honestly read every single reply!! It has taken me 2 days, as 15 pages is a lot to take in on one go, especially as emotionally charged as this thread is, but here I am at the end of the thread. If I may, a quick update, and a few words.
Firstly, I never meant to sound like I wanted anything to change from CCP's end. I think that this game is essentially here in the appropriate form. So please don't think that I was asking for CCP to make a change to add an extra security blanket and expecting them to ensure my experience. Quite the contrary, as I was pointing out that the players guide and create the experience, ("what is so wrong and so right at the same time") and if players don't understand that, and constantly treat players like crap for no reason, they may find themselves playing alone. It is undeniable that if everyone acted like that, the game would die very quickly. We have paper and markers, and can draw whatever we want. Let's not draw a turd :-) We have that freedom in EVE, but how would that benefit anyone or create something beautiful or engaging?
I underlined the malfunction. People have been crying about this for 11 years and yet EVE is still here.
In fact, you have it backwards: if people in EVE start joining hands and singing Kumbayaa, THAT will mark the true beginning of the end of EVE and people leaving. Peace, politeness, caring, all nice things in real life, they SUCK in a video game where 97% of the ships have gun or missile hardpoints.
if you aren't a killer, that means YOUR gameplay revolves around not getting killed or scammed (this is what I do). You failed in this and then decided to post about it. The message of this thread is that the problem isn't the game or even the actions of the guy who beat you by playing within the rules of the game. The problem is that your attitude (and most likely, your general personality) is incompatible with the nature of the game you've chosen to play.
Quote: One of the things that stuck with me in the replies was about stealing a beer can and thinking your some kind of diabolical genius. The 'scam' I experienced was dull, not worth either of our time, and that's what I wanted to point out. I think that any player that has a real Joker vs Batman moment is gonna love that and want to keep playing no matter which side they were on. It's the childish and uninspired acts of just being a jerk to be a jerk that has a huge potential to drive people away. I dunno, I just wasn't impressed, that's all.
You don't need to be impressed. You can discount the act all you want, but the fact remains that you fell for it. What you just said here is the equivalent of "well, i didn't want that ship anyways". In other words, a cop out.
Quote: and so... I have to give you a quick update! I have spent the last 2 days in Null Sec, though 2 WHs, trying to find a kick-ass Relic Site so I could get back my Garmur. I've had no luck! LoL!
but I logged in tonight and found that a player had sent me a cool 135 mil ISK. Enough for my Garmur and it's mods. I would have wandered around in Null for another week, because I'm very driven to experience EVE, in all it's ups and downs, but THIS kind of stuff is why I always keep fighting and can maintain that drive. There are AWESOME players in this game, people that WANT to build a fun experience, and I will continue to play and am happy knowing that there are players that will help you back up from the ground when you get kicked, even if it was a cheap shot that put you there.
Their is no such thing as a cheap shot in EVE. Their is life and death, winning and losing. If it's within the rules, it's all good. This is an example of the incompatibility I mentioned.
Quote: If you are someone that mentioned that you help players, talk to them after a fight, help them get back in a new ship even after you kill them, invite them into your Corp after you pod them so you can teach them how to avoid that again, then my advice is to KEEP doing that. You are making this game a valuable human experience, and that's what I think that this game deserves.
I do want to say, that as far as separation of game / RL... Playing Call of Duty doesn't mean that people can ascertain that you would run around shooting hundreds of ppl. HOWEVER, if you are on the mic, playing CoD and calling everyone slurs and treating them like crap, then it's a pretty logical step to say, that you probably aren't the nicest person in RL as well. So I don't want to hear that how you treat other players is not indicative of who you are as a person. There is a difference between roleplaying as a villain, and just being disruptive to other people's experience for the sake of hurting their experience.
I do want to acknowledge that when I am in Null or Low, I LOVE knowing that everyone wants to kill me. I go there for that. But I am out there ASKING for that when I am out there. Those kinds of 'villains' I have never been mad about when they kill me. I give them a quick o7 in local if / when I get away, it feels exhilarating, and I can't blame them when they do kill me, and that is a fantastic part of this game that I would never in a million years change.
Just wanted to highlight more evidence of bad thinking. This is the reason why gankers and scammers are a vital part of EVE (even if they are my natural 'enemies'): They remind people (especially those who demonstrate they have an incompatible mindset) that ALL of EVE is EVE, not just null , low and wormhole space. There are no shards here, you are in the muck the second you leave the rookie system and that's that. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
4118
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 18:13:40 -
[450] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Being the good guy in EVE is a tricky thing to be honest. It requires effort and coordination and smarts in order to be effective at all, and oftentimes it will be against opponents that are watching your every move and changing their tactics to try and counter your own. In short, it's hard and as such it's not going to attract as many people as the dark side will. Plus, as you stated, the pay sucks. Unless groups of PVE'rs are willing to pay well for mercenaries to play the role of White Knight for them, there's little incentive to bother. Just my opinion on the matter though. +1 you made a contentless post to say you'd liked omar's post but
omar's post has no likes |
|
Crimson Nirnroots
Compliance Munitions
20
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 18:24:12 -
[451] - Quote
Great follow up post. I have also read this thread from start to finish, and I would really like to comment on this part right here:
Aeon Plex wrote: There is a difference between roleplaying as a villain, and just being disruptive to other people's experience for the sake of hurting their experience.
The crux for many pilots is that they think (or are taught) this is a fine, definite line; a wall. It is more a vast grey fog that new capsuleers need to navigate.
There are in any community those whose needs are malicious and intercept the goals of others, but they are few. What we have a great deal of is opinions on what area of the spectrum is acceptable and where destructive behavior begins.
...
When I was younger I worked in the food-service industry. I used to laugh at the pails the mayonnaise came in. On the outside of each pail was a picture of a child that had fallen into the pail inside of a large red circle with a line through it.
I did not find amusement of the peril of the 2D-stick-child, I am not a monster. I have empathy for parents whom have had tragedies involving children.
The situation of a child stuck in a pail of mayonnaise in danger of drowning can happen, but its odds are astronomic! We however have culturally taken the time to warn as many as we can of the danger that lurks in huge quantities of mayonnaise, parents I imagine rushing to take the appropriate precautions.
Meanwhile the children of the children of the guardians of the pails of mayonnaise () may not realize that mayonnaise itself can be high in cholesterol.
...
The community itself is responsible for protecting its assets. One of the most important of these is new pilots, and we all have a stake in them. It is not enough to come to the forums to cry foul over what is happening in game. We need to take the next steps. If there is a system which violate the EULA or ToS, report it. Educate new pilots, don't use them as a point in a crusade.
Above all have fun.
Antimatter, now with more Nirnroots.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
191
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 18:42:36 -
[452] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Being the good guy in EVE is a tricky thing to be honest. It requires effort and coordination and smarts in order to be effective at all, and oftentimes it will be against opponents that are watching your every move and changing their tactics to try and counter your own. In short, it's hard and as such it's not going to attract as many people as the dark side will. Plus, as you stated, the pay sucks. Unless groups of PVE'rs are willing to pay well for mercenaries to play the role of White Knight for them, there's little incentive to bother. Just my opinion on the matter though. +1 you made a contentless post to say you'd liked omar's post but omar's post has no likes
I don't do likes....the system is broken. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21117
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 18:48:16 -
[453] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Being the good guy in EVE is a tricky thing to be honest. It requires effort and coordination and smarts in order to be effective at all, and oftentimes it will be against opponents that are watching your every move and changing their tactics to try and counter your own. In short, it's hard and as such it's not going to attract as many people as the dark side will. Plus, as you stated, the pay sucks. Unless groups of PVE'rs are willing to pay well for mercenaries to play the role of White Knight for them, there's little incentive to bother. Just my opinion on the matter though. +1 you made a contentless post to say you'd liked omar's post but omar's post has no likes I don't do likes....the system is broken. You don't do anything at all, maybe it's you that is broken and not the system
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10287
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 18:53:28 -
[454] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You don't do anything at all, maybe it's you that is broken and not the system
It's not possible to be a carebear and a functioning human being anyway, not sure why you are surprised.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
191
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 18:56:39 -
[455] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:Being the good guy in EVE is a tricky thing to be honest. It requires effort and coordination and smarts in order to be effective at all, and oftentimes it will be against opponents that are watching your every move and changing their tactics to try and counter your own. In short, it's hard and as such it's not going to attract as many people as the dark side will. Plus, as you stated, the pay sucks. Unless groups of PVE'rs are willing to pay well for mercenaries to play the role of White Knight for them, there's little incentive to bother. Just my opinion on the matter though. +1 you made a contentless post to say you'd liked omar's post but omar's post has no likes I don't do likes....the system is broken. You don't do anything at all, maybe it's you that is broken and not the system
And yet you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time crying about what I do and post. So apparently one of us is much more interested in the other, and it sure ain't me. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
577
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 18:59:40 -
[456] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote: One of the things that stuck with me in the replies was about stealing a beer can and thinking your some kind of diabolical genius. The 'scam' I experienced was dull, not worth either of our time, and that's what I wanted to point out. I think that any player that has a real Joker vs Batman moment is gonna love that and want to keep playing no matter which side they were on. It's the childish and uninspired acts of just being a jerk to be a jerk that has a huge potential to drive people away. I dunno, I just wasn't impressed, that's all.
GǪ
I agree with you, it is shocking how cheaply most people will sell their reputations in this game.
I respect those who play the long game - the Guiding Hand Social Club stories are part of what drew me to Eve. But most corp thefts, ganks, awoxes, Lofty scams, etc. are about being risk averse and lazy.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10287
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:02:22 -
[457] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: And yet you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time crying about what I do and post. So apparently one of us is much more interested in the other, and it sure ain't me.
He posts less than you do per day.
Oh, and he isn't crying, he's actively mocking you. Much of this forum is doing that, for that matter.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8741
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:05:40 -
[458] - Quote
Crimson Nirnroots wrote:
...
When I was younger I worked in the food-service industry. I used to laugh at the pails the mayonnaise came in. On the outside of each pail was a picture of a child that had fallen into the pail inside of a large red circle with a line through it.
I did not find amusement of the peril of the 2D-stick-child, I am not a monster. I have empathy for parents whom have had tragedies involving children.
I quote the above to point something out. Notice how the "in game morality" crowd tends to be those people who.... what's the right word here? "Overthink" (?) any given situation..
...
Quote: The community itself is responsible for protecting its assets. One of the most important of these is new pilots, and we all have a stake in them. It is not enough to come to the forums to cry foul over what is happening in game. We need to take the next steps. If there is a system which violate the EULA or ToS, report it. Educate new pilots, don't use them as a point in a crusade.
Above all have fun.
I think this demonstrates that you don't understand the game you're playing and we're talking about. This is EVE, the best ting you can do for a new player is kick his butt and if he's EVE material, it's make him mad AND make him learn how to avoid a butt kicking. Screw this new age kumbayaa crap.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21118
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:08:05 -
[459] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:And yet you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time crying about what I do and post. So apparently one of us is much more interested in the other, and it sure ain't me. The only crying I do is laughter related, mostly at your expense.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:08:23 -
[460] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: And yet you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time crying about what I do and post. So apparently one of us is much more interested in the other, and it sure ain't me.
He posts less than you do per day. Oh, and he isn't crying, he's actively mocking you. Much of this forum is doing that, for that matter.
No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles. And for someone who goes around calling himself a high functioning sociopath, I'm really, really unconcerned by attempts from you and your ilk to mock me. |
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8741
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:11:27 -
[461] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: And yet you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time crying about what I do and post. So apparently one of us is much more interested in the other, and it sure ain't me.
He posts less than you do per day. Oh, and he isn't crying, he's actively mocking you. Much of this forum is doing that, for that matter. No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles. And for someone who goes around calling himself a high functioning sociopath, I'm really, really unconcerned by attempts from you and your ilk to mock me.
I'm a PVE player. I post to let other people know that you are in no way a representative of the PVEing EVE community.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:13:31 -
[462] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: And yet you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time crying about what I do and post. So apparently one of us is much more interested in the other, and it sure ain't me.
He posts less than you do per day. Oh, and he isn't crying, he's actively mocking you. Much of this forum is doing that, for that matter. No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles. And for someone who goes around calling himself a high functioning sociopath, I'm really, really unconcerned by attempts from you and your ilk to mock me. I'm a PVE player. I post to let other people know that you are in no way a representative of the PVEing EVE community.
Good for you. I think you are in no way representative of the broad highsec PvE "carebear" community. And happily so, I might add. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10287
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:14:36 -
[463] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles.
Nope. He and I were here before you, and we'll be here long after you've either been banned or chased away from this game.
And with how prolific your rampant trolling is, it's pretty hard not to trip over some of the nonsense you sperg all over this forum. It's pretty much impossible in fact. You seem to have some burning desire to make sure everyone knows you are a worthless carebear, which is akin to wearing a sandwich board advertising your mental illness.
I'd ignore you, but you embarrass yourself often enough that you provide a fair amount of amusement.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10287
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:15:41 -
[464] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Good for you. I think you are in no way representative of the broad highsec PvE "carebear" community. And happily so, I might add.
Of course he isn't representative of the highsec carebear community, Jenn is a real player.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8741
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:17:42 -
[465] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Good for you. I think you are in no way representative of the broad highsec PvE "carebear" community. And happily so, I might add.
Wrong (as usual). Most of us who pve in high sec don't whine about gankers on the forums or obsess about them like you do. We get on with the business of playing. Most PVE players are way more like me than like you, we know gankers have the same right to play the way they want to as we do and we take pride in avoiding them rather then crying like children.
|
Crimson Nirnroots
Compliance Munitions
20
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:18:07 -
[466] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: This is EVE, the best ting you can do for a new player is kick his butt and if he's EVE material, it's make him mad AND make him learn how to avoid a butt kicking. Screw this new age kumbayaa crap.
Yes, I agree with this. Very much.I was not very clear in my post, sorry for that.
Kumbayaa. I don't sing
I think educating pilots is important right from the word go. That education includes a good buttwhoopin, no handholding, no 'stand behind me, thou fragile vase'.
I love reading about the pilots who had conversations with the victors of their engagements. I really enjoy reading about the corps or FC's that give pilots direction and expectations, and provide for them realistic environments to practice and succeed at those tasks.
I think constructive feedback is important.
I don't think that happens all of the time, and for the time I have lurked here before posting I witnessed many posts of players 'saving the new pilots' from everything but themselves.
Forgive me my clarity, my coffee is nearly complete o7
Antimatter, now with more Nirnroots.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:18:19 -
[467] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles.
Nope. He and I were here before you, and we'll be here long after you've either been banned or chased away from this game. And with how prolific your rampant trolling is, it's pretty hard not to trip over some of the nonsense you sperg all over this forum. It's pretty much impossible in fact. You seem to have some burning desire to make sure everyone knows you are a worthless carebear, which is akin to wearing a sandwich board advertising your mental illness. I'd ignore you, but you embarrass yourself often enough that you provide a fair amount of amusement.
I guess we can have a contest to see which of us gets banned first....I can't imagine who will win.
And for the record, I think that the highsec PvE players are the "real players" not the scammers, awoxers, market manipulators, wardeccers, etc.... |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21118
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:19:55 -
[468] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles. And for someone who goes around calling himself a high functioning sociopath, I'm really, really unconcerned by attempts from you and your ilk to mock me. Pointing out the flaws and ignorance evident in pretty much everything you post is not obsessive, it's a public service to those that may mistakenly think that you know what you're talking about.
As for the rest I'm a happy and unrepentant PvE player, I mine, I mission I trade, I make stuff. However I accept that others are free to shoot at me if they wish to, and take steps to lower the chances of that happening. You on the other hand want CCP to take those steps for you.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:20:03 -
[469] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Good for you. I think you are in no way representative of the broad highsec PvE "carebear" community. And happily so, I might add.
Wrong (as usual). Most of us who pve in high sec don't whine about gankers on the forums or obsess about them like you do. We get on with the business of playing. Most PVE players are way more like me than like you, we know gankers have the same right to play the way they want to as we do and we take pride in avoiding them rather then crying like children.
Nonsense. The vast majority of highsec PvE players wan't to be able to happily PvE without constantly being wardecced, ganked, awoxxed, etc..... Virtually none of them appreciate the PvP folks. Look at the all the forum posts requesting nerfs.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10290
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:25:00 -
[470] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I guess we can have a contest to see which of us gets banned first....I can't imagine who will win.
I'm 6-0 so far. Go for it. Hell I outlived Dinsdale, and you're half the man he was.
Quote: And for the record, I think that the highsec PvE players are the "real players" not the scammers, awoxers, market manipulators, wardeccers, etc....
You think wrong.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21122
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:25:37 -
[471] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Nonsense. The vast majority of highsec PvE players wan't to be able to happily PvE without constantly being wardecced, ganked, awoxxed, etc..... I've managed to happily PvE away for the last 5 years with absolutley zero wardecs, ganks, awoxing etc. The only problems I've had have been down to my own stupidity and greed.
Quote:Virtually none of them appreciate the PvP folks. Look at the all the forum posts requesting nerfs. They should do, without PvP players there would be pretty much nobody to sell ships and modules to.
Quote:You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. Maybe you should take this statement to heart. You're continually presenting your own opinion as fact, or doesn't it apply to you?
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10290
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:28:44 -
[472] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The vast majority of highsec PvE players wan't to be able to happily PvE without constantly being wardecced, ganked, awoxxed, etc.....
Which is exactly why non consensual PvP is so important. If it were up to people like you, PvP would not exist at all.
Quote: Virtually none of them appreciate the PvP folks. Look at the all the forum posts requesting nerfs.
Yeah, they are ungrateful little pricks, by and large. You'd think they'd be thankful for the tireless efforts of the real players to bring some excitement into their lives.
Quote: You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Oh, the irony of someone like you saying something like this. You people literally demand your own facts, because if you can't make things up, your basic point stops existing at all.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:30:41 -
[473] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles. And for someone who goes around calling himself a high functioning sociopath, I'm really, really unconcerned by attempts from you and your ilk to mock me. Pointing out the flaws and ignorance evident in pretty much everything you post is not obsessive, it's a public service to those who may mistakenly think you know what you're talking about. As for the rest I'm a happy and unrepentant PvE player, I mine, I mission I trade, I make stuff. However I accept that others are free to shoot at me if they wish to, and take steps to lower the chances of that happening. You on the other hand want CCP to take those steps for you.
Nonsense. I am completely unconcerned about people shooting at me. When has it happened before? I consider myself virtually invincible, and completely unconcerned by the laughable gankers.
What does concern me is the slaughter of AFK haulers and miners, of new players, and of generally helpless people in places like Uedama. That I think is profoundly wrong, and determintal to the game, and that I think should be addressed by CCP.
Nothing to do with me, Veers will be fine regardless. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2796
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:32:50 -
[474] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Nonsense. I am completely unconcerned about people shooting at me. When has it happened before? I consider myself virtually invincible, and completely unconcerned by the laughable gankers.
What does concern me is the slaughter of AFK haulers and miners, of new players, and of generally helpless people in places like Uedama. That I think is profoundly wrong, and determintal to the game, and that I think should be addressed by CCP.
Nothing to do with me, Veers will be fine regardless.
So go out and protect them then if it bothers you, Uedama is not a rookie system.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6160
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:33:03 -
[475] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: And yet you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time crying about what I do and post. So apparently one of us is much more interested in the other, and it sure ain't me.
He posts less than you do per day. Oh, and he isn't crying, he's actively mocking you. Much of this forum is doing that, for that matter. No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles. And for someone who goes around calling himself a high functioning sociopath, I'm really, really unconcerned by attempts from you and your ilk to mock me. well luckily for us, the posts you leave here are several orders of magnitude funnier than anything we could say about you
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:35:52 -
[476] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Nonsense. I am completely unconcerned about people shooting at me. When has it happened before? I consider myself virtually invincible, and completely unconcerned by the laughable gankers.
What does concern me is the slaughter of AFK haulers and miners, of new players, and of generally helpless people in places like Uedama. That I think is profoundly wrong, and determintal to the game, and that I think should be addressed by CCP.
Nothing to do with me, Veers will be fine regardless.
So go out and protect them then if it bothers you, Uedama is not a rookie system.
There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods. There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama. There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail. The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21123
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:39:25 -
[477] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Nonsense. I am completely unconcerned about people shooting at me. When has it happened before? I consider myself virtually invincible, and completely unconcerned by the laughable gankers. Nonsense is the right word for about 99.99% of your posting, including this particular little gem.
Quote:What does concern me is the slaughter of AFK haulers and miners Don't be AFK, it's that simple.
When new players get ganked you'll find that the gankers will often reimburse them for their losses once they realise that they're newbies, especially if they're good sports about it.
Quote:and of generally helpless people in places like Uedama. They choose to be helpless, their problem not mine, or anybody else's for that matter
Quote:That I think is profoundly wrong, and determintal to the game, and that I think should be addressed by CCP. Your opinion is irrelevant, CCP address things that they see as worth addressing, non consensual PvP in highsec is not on their list of things worth addressing as far as I know.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10301
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:40:22 -
[478] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods.
False. Not only have I done it to other people, I have had it done to me.
Quote: There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama.
Also false. Spoken like a true "never-was", Anslo would be proud.
Quote: There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail.
Of course not, since no real crime is being committed.
Quote: The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap.
That's because, unlike you, gankers don't refuse to admit that risk exists, they accept it, embrace it, and take steps to mitigate negative outcomes.
They do this because, again unlike you, gankers are real players.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2797
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 19:58:56 -
[479] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Nonsense. I am completely unconcerned about people shooting at me. When has it happened before? I consider myself virtually invincible, and completely unconcerned by the laughable gankers.
What does concern me is the slaughter of AFK haulers and miners, of new players, and of generally helpless people in places like Uedama. That I think is profoundly wrong, and determintal to the game, and that I think should be addressed by CCP.
Nothing to do with me, Veers will be fine regardless.
So go out and protect them then if it bothers you, Uedama is not a rookie system. There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods. There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama. There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail. The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap.
There are plenty of ways to protect against that, think about it.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21129
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 20:01:43 -
[480] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:There are plenty of ways to protect against that, think about it. :effort:
It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 21:10:24 -
[481] - Quote
HIgh Sec Prison
You people don't understand, I'm not locked up in here with you, you are locked up in here with me
Another devious suggestion
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
241
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 21:17:43 -
[482] - Quote
Quote:2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. We've had to clean this thread a couple times. Please refresh yourself on our forum rules before hitting that reply button. I've removed a post that violated the aforementioned rules.
ISD Decoy
Lieutenant Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 22:24:31 -
[483] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote::effort:
It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.
CCP does do it for you, no player organisation would be able to produce the same reaction as Concord
Another devious suggestion
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 22:28:56 -
[484] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote::effort:
It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.
CCP does do it for you, no player organisation would be able to produce the same reaction as Concord
Yep, the idea of spending time and effort to kill a 3 million is thrasher, so the guy can just come back in 15 minutes and try again is...well....pointless. Asking players to police highsec, without any power to impose meaningful punishments, is just empty. |
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 22:45:49 -
[485] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Yep, the idea of spending time and effort to kill a 3 million isk thrasher, so the guy can just come back in 15 minutes and try again is...well....pointless. Asking players to police highsec, without any power to impose meaningful punishments, is just empty.
Also if you try to police high sec then Concord starts working for the other side.
Another devious suggestion
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
10307
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 23:01:16 -
[486] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Yep, the idea of spending time and effort to kill a 3 million isk thrasher, so the guy can just come back in 15 minutes and try again is...well....pointless. Asking players to police highsec, without any power to impose meaningful punishments, is just empty.
Also if you try to police high sec then Concord starts working for the other side.
The majority of the ganking community runs at neg ten, so that's highly unlikely. If by some chance the ganker has gone to the trouble of keeping up his sec status, he's earned it, because it either takes about twenty hours of ratting or about 500-700 mil.
And if they are doing that, then they sure as **** are not shooting pods either, because that flushes your sec status away really damn quickly.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.26 23:27:42 -
[487] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The majority of the ganking community runs at neg ten, so that's highly unlikely. .
Dunno, I just heard the screams and tears down the intercom, which secretly slightly amused me. Don't get me wrong when I say the game should include a more workable provision for bounty hunters, it's only a view of what might make the game better. Unfortunately we are stuck with wall of Concord until someone has a better idea. That better idea isn't going to be easy to think of because I'm fairly sure a lot of people have already tried.
Another devious suggestion
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21137
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 04:31:31 -
[488] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote::effort:
It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.
CCP does do it for you, no player organisation would be able to produce the same reaction as Concord To a certain extent yes, Concord punishes crime, it doesn't prevent it though, and it never should.
Some people would like to see Concord's role expanded to protection and prevention too, instagibbing anybody who has the temerity to enter highsec while -5 or worse essentially outlawing criminals to lowsec, providing protection details etc. As far as I'm concerned these things should be provided by players working together, not an omnipotent NPC that you can't escape. Those people are the ones that the :effort: comment is aimed at.
Furthermore some also want low sec status to result in highsec docking rights removal, inability to access highsec POS's while under GCC or with low sec status, the list goes on and on.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Silent Stories
Sector IX Concordokken.
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 05:34:53 -
[489] - Quote
Not sure if this was mentioned, but. I'm fairly new and i'm sure some of you will say super new, ive been playing for a couple of months and enjoying the game as much as i can get on and play.
I find the hardest thing to do in this game is making "new" friends. When i first started i was found by a mining group that took me in. they've basically disbanded now.
I'm still in the corp, but what i find the most obnoxious is that they tell you don't talk in local chat at all, or it will start a war. So i never did it, i didn't wanna be the problem.
How was i supposed to find and meet new people tho? I finally made a post on here about finding a Corp tonight so hopefully that helps. i think that's a big reason why new players have trouble tho. gets lonely out there all alone sometimes. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21141
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 06:30:58 -
[490] - Quote
Silent Stories wrote:Not sure if this was mentioned, but. I'm fairly new and i'm sure some of you will say super new, ive been playing for a couple of months and enjoying the game as much as i can get on and play. Welcome to Eve
Quote:I find the hardest thing to do in this game is making "new" friends. When i first started i was found by a mining group that took me in. they've basically disbanded now.
I'm still in the corp, but what i find the most obnoxious is that they tell you don't talk in local chat at all, or it will start a war. So i never did it, i didn't wanna be the problem. Finding new friends can be tough, especially with the terrible advice you were given about chatting with others. Unless you talk crap in local you're unlikely to start a war, Eve is a social game and telling you not to talk in local goes against that. My advice to you is to find a corp that isn't paranoid. You may find Nightcrawler's guide to finding the right corp helpful in this respect.
Quote:How was i supposed to find and meet new people tho? I finally made a post on here about finding a Corp tonight so hopefully that helps. Good stuff and good luck, if you get an offer to join a corp that requires any sort of security deposit, or they offer to move all your stuff, it's almost definitely a scam, avoid those offers like the plaque
Quote:i think that's a big reason why new players have trouble tho. gets lonely out there all alone sometimes. Indeed it does.
If you have any questions relating to anything at all post them over in New Citizens Q&A, the older players that post there tend to be knowledgeable, helpful and normally quite friendly. Here in GD there be trolls, over in NCQA trolls get stomped on very rapidly.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
|
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 11:53:45 -
[491] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote::effort:
It's much easier to ask CCP to do it for you.
CCP does do it for you, no player organisation would be able to produce the same reaction as Concord To a certain extent yes, Concord punishes crime, it doesn't prevent it though, and it never should.
Concord doesn't punish crime, it reacts consistently and invariably with a specific response to one type of action.
This is overcome by gathering the correct resources to get past it, ie; Lots of players , lots of cheap ships
A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point.
Another devious suggestion
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
139
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:03:14 -
[492] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods. There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama. There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail. The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap.
dont autopilot
warp to a 0km undock spot and then dock immediatley.
avoid uedama if u know there is a 40 man fleet of gankers who will give 0 fucks about losing thier ship to get urs
put people in jail? we are playing a game arent we?
if i saw that guy undock every 15 mins to snipe a pod of a shuttle i would wait till he goes criminal and get in on the km....
honestly i believe the players can police the systems. locate your gankers, griefers, miscreants and kill them. if they have friends then bring friends. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8746
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:13:41 -
[493] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Good for you. I think you are in no way representative of the broad highsec PvE "carebear" community. And happily so, I might add.
Wrong (as usual). Most of us who pve in high sec don't whine about gankers on the forums or obsess about them like you do. We get on with the business of playing. Most PVE players are way more like me than like you, we know gankers have the same right to play the way they want to as we do and we take pride in avoiding them rather then crying like children. Nonsense. The vast majority of highsec PvE players wan't to be able to happily PvE without constantly being wardecced, ganked, awoxxed, etc..... Virtually none of them appreciate the PvP folks. Look at the all the forum posts requesting nerfs. You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
And yet the VAST majority of EVE players never post on these forums. So how can you tell what others want? lol at "look at all the post asking for nerfs" (that's called confirmation bias btw, and you're doing it). We can prove most EVE characters don't post on the forums, but you can't prove what you believe. Not that you're the type that requires evidence to form an opinion, just saying.
The point here is that you are in no way representative of the real PVE community in this game, which (despite the vocal minority who can't handle the loss of imaginary space ships) is rather tough compared to pve types in other games.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21155
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:18:43 -
[494] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Concord doesn't punish crime, it reacts consistently and invariably with a specific response to one type of action. You're kind of right, the Crimewatch system controls the flagging of players, stealing loot and flipping cans are consider to be "petty" offences, hence you only get flagged; shooting someone in the face outside of a limited set of conditions is considered a "serious" crime and incurs a GCC flag, hence Concord roll up and BBQ you everytime you undock in anything other than a pod for the duration of that flag.
Concord responding to petty crime would fall under crime prevention, which is not their designed role.
Quote:This is overcome by gathering the correct resources to get past it, ie; Lots of players , lots of cheap ships Yep, but that doesn't change the fact that Concord still punish the offenders.
Quote:A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point. I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8749
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:21:16 -
[495] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Nonsense. The vast majority of highsec PvE players wan't to be able to happily PvE without constantly being wardecced, ganked, awoxxed, etc..... I've managed to happily PvE away for the last 5 years with absolutley zero wardecs, ganks, awoxing etc. The only problems I've had have been down to my own stupidity and greed.
Same. other than buying a 100 million isk hauler because i was in too much of a hurry to count the zeros and had my market window misconfigured (and of course their was the "autopiliting JF to jita while both drunk and war decced incident ) I've had no problems (and since most people don't post on forums, we can assume this is the same for many, maybe most pve players). The people (like Veers and the OP) who whine about these things are simply the folks who can't take responsibility for their own actions. They need things to be someone Else's fault to in order to protect their egos.
As in real life in this case, so in EVE: 90+% of an individuals 'problems' in any given situation (at least in the "First World") stems from their internal faults, bad thinking and/or bad choices. people stop thinking stupid thoughts, people stop having stupid problems, but of course, that's a lot harder than just saying "those people over their are bad and the cause of all evil".
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Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
59
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:35:13 -
[496] - Quote
I think a players driven Militia is a great idea!
That way they can have a sniff at PvP without giving up mining.
What if Miners would unite? Bigger and smaller corp's get organised and raise a militia. A whole solarsystem under guard by the same organisation that mines it sounds completely in line with the games design.
After all... if CODE can do it then why cant miners do the same?
A Miners Co+¦p with its own Militia (Militia can be from a sort of mandatory guard tour or from hired hands).
i read somewhere that you can make your claim public when you get unlawfully ganked right?
CCP should lengthen that state and make a ganker vulnerable for a longer period.... after all the miners are vulnerable all the time so...
Just a thought... although its a bit offtopic... unless OP was in a Miners Co+¦p
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
106
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 12:44:36 -
[497] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods. There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama. There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail. The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap.
The maximum punishment a ganker can administer to a target is the destruction of their ship and pod. Why should a ganker be forced to risk more than other players when undocking?
Eve is not an experiment in creating a harmonious space society. If it was CCP could cancel the clone contracts of gankers or put them on space trial and put them in space prison forever for continued ganking. Eve is a PvP game where there is suppose to be combat and ganking everywhere including highsec. You can't seem to grasp the idea that ganking is baked into the design. The fact that autopiloting untanked ships are being destroyed or that overloaded, unescorted freighters are being taken down by groups of dozens of players, is suppose to happen. New Eden is a dangerous place.
Players already have the tools to prevent almost all of these attacks. And if they do almost everything right but are very unlucky, well they are suppose to be able to absorb the loss of a ship by not flying what they cannot afford to lose, and then learn from that loss. Why do you even want to "protect" these other "players", when they won't even bother to take the time to protect themselves?
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Haleuth
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 13:44:40 -
[498] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:No, he, like you, is obsessing with what I post - unable to handle out that some of us are proud and happy PvE players, unrepentant for our playstyles. And for someone who goes around calling himself a high functioning sociopath, I'm really, really unconcerned by attempts from you and your ilk to mock me. Pointing out the flaws and ignorance evident in pretty much everything you post is not obsessive, it's a public service to those who may mistakenly think you know what you're talking about. As for the rest I'm a happy and unrepentant PvE player, I mine, I mission I trade, I make stuff. However I accept that others are free to shoot at me if they wish to, and take steps to lower the chances of that happening. You on the other hand want CCP to take those steps for you. Nonsense. I am completely unconcerned about people shooting at me. When has it happened before? I consider myself virtually invincible, and completely unconcerned by the laughable gankers. What does concern me is the slaughter of AFK haulers and miners, of new players, and of generally helpless people in places like Uedama. That I think is profoundly wrong, and determintal to the game, and that I think should be addressed by CCP. Nothing to do with me, Veers will be fine regardless.
You state this "Nor do I really care about AFK freighters getting ganked" on http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/10/kills-of-week_26.html#comment-form
If it wasn't for the new order, what exactly would be your reason to play since the only thing you seem to do with your time is post on forums?
I suppose your next project will be to stop people shooting each other in Battlefield 4 LOL
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 14:22:47 -
[499] - Quote
Haleuth wrote:[quote=Veers Belvar] You state this "Nor do I really care about AFK freighters getting ganked" on http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/10/kills-of-week_26.html#comment-form If it wasn't for the new order, what exactly would be your reason to play since the only thing you seem to do with your time is post on forums? I suppose your next project will be to stop people shooting each other in Battlefield 4 LOL
The individual killing of AFK haulers and miners doesn't concern me. The concerted effort by the same players to do so over and over again, without doing any PvE style activties in the interim, and still facing no real punishment from CONCORD is what concerns me. It creates and effectively lawless and dystopian society in highsec, and drives a lot of more reasonable players out of the game.
And if you would have bothered reading my posts you would realize that I do a tremendous amount of highsec PvE....but I guess I'm still not as elite as.....wait for it.....RvB, lolz. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 14:28:42 -
[500] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: There is no way to "protect" against a guy in a thrasher undocking every 15 minutes to shoot autopiloting shuttles and pods. There is no way to "protect" against 40 man gank fleets in Uedama. There is no way to arrest people, put them on trial, and sentence them to 15 years in jail. The maximum punishment you can administer is destruction of ship and pod, which for gankers is laughably cheap.
The maximum punishment a ganker can administer to a target is the destruction of their ship and pod. Why should a ganker be forced to risk more than other players when undocking? Eve is not an experiment in creating a harmonious space society. If it was CCP could cancel the clone contracts of gankers or put them on space trial and put them in space prison forever for continued ganking. Eve is a PvP game where there is suppose to be combat and ganking everywhere including highsec. You can't seem to grasp the idea that ganking is baked into the design. The fact that autopiloting untanked ships are being destroyed or that overloaded, unescorted freighters are being taken down by groups of dozens of players, is suppose to happen. New Eden is a dangerous place. Players already have the tools to prevent almost all of these attacks. And if they do almost everything right but are very unlucky, well they are suppose to be able to absorb the loss of a ship by not flying what they cannot afford to lose, and then learn from that loss. Why do you even want to "protect" these other "players", when they won't even bother to take the time to protect themselves?
Agreed, gankers risk is capped at ship + pod. Which is why the game design should reflect that fact, and limit their reward accordingly. If your risk is 5 million isk, why should your reward potentially be hundreds of millions of isk? OP glass cannon gank ships are fundamentally breaking the risk-reward at the heart of Eve. Just check out the CODE Uedama ganks in risk/reward terms.....10 billion isk drops from gankalysts.
I agree that ganking and criminal activity are very much part of the fabric of highsec. What I disagree on is CONCORD treatment of players who do literally nothing except for suicide ganking. No PvE activities at all, nothing that would make them curry any kind of favor in the eyes of CONCORD and explain the kid gloves treatment, just ganking all day, every day. To me that screams out for a fix. I have no problem with people who do criminal activity as part of a broad spectrum of Eve activities, and understand why CONCORD wouldn't come down hard on them. I see no justification in the game design for career criminals to escape real punishment. So yes, ganking is fine, but gankers, meaning those who do nothing at all except for gank, were never an essential part of the fabric of the game. |
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
140
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 14:42:33 -
[501] - Quote
are there many? players who gank all day everyday?
in my ~3 years of eve i have been suicide ganked once. and i was in an empty bestower.
that player i cant remember the name now pissed me off so much because i wasnt even a profitable target.
That same player was hanging around osmon just blapping people as they came out of soe station.
me and another likeminded player decided to make life diificult for them by killing them before concord got the chanec when they went criminal.
and also attempting to kill his bustard friend when he went suspect for grabbing the loot.
killed them 3 times or so and guess what? they left osmon alone.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 14:50:11 -
[502] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:are there many? players who gank all day everyday?
in my ~3 years of eve i have been suicide ganked once. and i was in an empty bestower.
that player i cant remember the name now pissed me off so much because i wasnt even a profitable target.
That same player was hanging around osmon just blapping people as they came out of soe station.
me and another likeminded player decided to make life diificult for them by killing them before concord got the chanec when they went criminal.
and also attempting to kill his bustard friend when he went suspect for grabbing the loot.
killed them 3 times or so and guess what? they left osmon alone.
Check the killboard of CODE. There are tens of dedicated gank alts who do virtually nothing but gank, gank, gank. The use of alts is another issues - gankers should feel the consequences of their actions across all their characters, not be able to confine it to the gank alt. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
141
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 14:52:00 -
[503] - Quote
why dont people band together? wait till they go criminal and then kill them. steal their loot for urself and dock up. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
107
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:00:50 -
[504] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: I see no justification in the game design for career criminals to escape real punishment. So yes, ganking is fine, but gankers, meaning those who do nothing at all except for gank, were never an essential part of the fabric of the game.
Isn't "driving player vs. player conflict in a PvP game" enough? To have good guys you need bad guys so why shouldn't there be career criminals in highsec? The game punishes criminal behaviour, but more telling, the game design makes career criminals immune from the protections of highsec and thus enables other players to provide punishment if they so desire.
Suicide gankers, whether they be part-time or full-time, are indeed an essential part of the game. Without them there is no risk at all in highsec (outside of wardecs which NPC corp players, actually all players really, are immune to) which would not only have profound effects on the economy, but would make the game far less interesting as everyone would fit for yield/cargo and AFK their way to riches.
The only point you have made at all in this thread that may have some validity is the problem of new players getting caught by gankers before they have learned how to protect themselves. This problem is made worse by the absurdly low amount of risk in modern highsec - a player may not even encounter highsec PvP until late in their Eve career while flying a too-expensive ship and then rage-quit. Since Eve is a complex game, a bright-eyed newbie may not fully understand the risks to their shiny new ship and be somewhat put off the game when it explodes when they don't even get that Eve has fully open world PvP. Personally, I think the best way for them to learn is by being exploded several times while they are flying ships that are easily replaced like Ventures or T1 haulers, but I would support an initiative to help educate new players about the risks of operating in highsec and what they can do to protect themselves, either through a more developed tutorial or better integration into competent highsec corps after starting the game. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:01:42 -
[505] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:why dont people band together? wait till they go criminal and then kill them. steal their loot for urself and dock up.
They use neutral bumper alts to trap the freighters and then insta undock and warp to them. You are unlikely to kill many before CONCORD arrives.
As far as the pod killing thrashers they insta undock, bounce around to safes, and find an AFK shuttle/pod to pop.
Both of these are exceedingly difficult to stop....nor should I need to spend my time doing so. Police are here for a reason, repeat criminals should get extended punishments. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
141
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:05:35 -
[506] - Quote
no u cant really stop them i suppose. but you can steal thier ill gotten gains. by killing whatever hauler picks up loot for them. he will go suspect when he picks up the loot so just bring a few nados and hes dead. if that fails just align blow up the wreck they want to loot and warp...
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6189
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:05:41 -
[507] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:why dont people band together? wait till they go criminal and then kill them. steal their loot for urself and dock up. we do, its fun they don't make it exactly easy though, so some coordination is required hens the bears aren't botherd.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
143
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:07:15 -
[508] - Quote
see. seems like the carebears give up when the going gets tough.... |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6190
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:14:17 -
[509] - Quote
something like that, they see a coordinated group they cannot touch solo and instead of coordinating into a group and going hell for leather opt to whinge and whine about coordination being op
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Haleuth
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:14:29 -
[510] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Haleuth wrote:[quote=Veers Belvar] You state this "Nor do I really care about AFK freighters getting ganked" on http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/10/kills-of-week_26.html#comment-form If it wasn't for the new order, what exactly would be your reason to play since the only thing you seem to do with your time is post on forums? I suppose your next project will be to stop people shooting each other in Battlefield 4 LOL The individual killing of AFK haulers and miners doesn't concern me. The concerted effort by the same players to do so over and over again, without doing any PvE style activties in the interim, and still facing no real punishment from CONCORD is what concerns me. It creates and effectively lawless and dystopian society in highsec, and drives a lot of more reasonable players out of the game. And if you would have bothered reading my posts you would realize that I do a tremendous amount of highsec PvE....but I guess I'm still not as elite as.....wait for it.....RvB, lolz.
First off, why would i bother to read your huge amount of whine posts? Two is enough to realise that you do not grab the concept of what Eve online is about. The whole game, including highsec, is meant to be lawless and dystopian.
Second, with even the most basic understanding of high sec mechanics, you would realise that a -10 cannot participate in RvB. I'm there because i have alot of old friends, enjoy the banter and like to help new players with fits and isk. Yes, you read that right.....NEW PLAYERS, the very people that you state are being driven out of the game.
Third, and most importantly, players that spend one day in RvB are more elite than you. They are up for a fight without concord jamming their target for instance, something that is beyond your capabilities.
You state that you "do a tremendous amount of highsec PvE". There are countless other space mmo's that allow you to do that activity while having your hand held. It's your fault that you chose the wrong game to play.
It's also your fault that you are not well versed in ganking mechanics to have any idea how to stop them, the old eve slogan adapt or die comes to mind.
They are stoppable, you chose to fight them with words rather than guns.
|
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
143
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:16:42 -
[511] - Quote
how hard is it to get on comms?
u dont even need ts eve has in game voice ffs.
carebear: please sir stop hitting me in the face
gankers: SPARTAAAAAAAA!!!!!! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21160
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:17:12 -
[512] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:if that fails just align blow up the wreck they want to loot and warp... IIRC shooting a wreck that doesn't belong to you incurs a Concord response, it's treated the same as a ship; people like Veers won't risk that.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
143
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:21:06 -
[513] - Quote
ok my bad. use a cheap ship to shoot the wreck.
u will lose ur ship but ur still wining. think off it as cutting off the enemies supply lines...
edit: i thought u would only get suspect timer. might be rong. jonah knows more about these things than i do anyway |
Prince Kobol
2321
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:26:34 -
[514] - Quote
You want to know what Eve's major problem is.. its age.
Think about it.. Eve is what 11, 12 years old now
How many MMO's exist now that were released at the same time Eve was and how many of them have the same subscription numbers as they did a few years ago.
I am going to guess none do. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21161
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:27:05 -
[515] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:ok my bad. use a cheap ship to shoot the wreck. u will lose ur ship but ur still wining. think off it as cutting off the enemies supply lines... edit: i thought u would only get suspect timer. might be rong. jonah knows more about these things than i do anyway The Wiki entry is about 18 months old, Crimewatch 2.0 pre dates it by about 5-6 months it so I'm assuming the info is correct.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
143
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:27:42 -
[516] - Quote
this gives me an idea.
why not make it so that containers that were produced as a result of illegal destrcution of another ship should be free for all?
allowing anyone to grab/destroy the loot?
this might deter gankers, but honsetly i think people should defend themselves for chrissakes
edit - oh nevemrind this wqould prolly make ganking even easier i guess...
second edit - you can shoot the wreck if your in fleet according to the wiki entry
"When taking is not stealing
If you do not own a loot or jettison container, you may still have an implicit right to take from it. However, this is only if the owner of the container:
Has given you a personal standing of 10 Is in the same player corporation as you Is in the same gang as you (and is located in the same solar system as you)." |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:34:19 -
[517] - Quote
Haleuth wrote:
First off, why would i bother to read your huge amount of whine posts? Two is enough to realise that you do not grab the concept of what Eve online is about. The whole game, including highsec, is meant to be lawless and dystopian.
Second, with even the most basic understanding of high sec mechanics, you would realise that a -10 cannot participate in RvB. I'm there because i have alot of old friends, enjoy the banter and like to help new players with fits and isk. Yes, you read that right.....NEW PLAYERS, the very people that you state are being driven out of the game.
Third, and most importantly, players that spend one day in RvB are more elite than you. They are up for a fight without concord jamming their target for instance, something that is beyond your capabilities.
You state that you "do a tremendous amount of highsec PvE". There are countless other space mmo's that allow you to do that activity while having your hand held. It's your fault that you chose the wrong game to play.
It's also your fault that you are not well versed in ganking mechanics to have any idea how to stop them, the old eve slogan adapt or die comes to mind.
They are stoppable, you chose to fight them with words rather than guns.
More nonsense. Highsec is by definition not lawless. Never claimed RvB are -10.
PvP doesn't make you more "elite" than PvE. It's a choice - both are valid. I prefer PvE. And I enjoy playing Eve for the PvE, why would I play something else. I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:39:24 -
[518] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:poeple will always target you if u make urself an easy target just saying.
Well, I don't get targeted because I am very good at what I do. The problem is that the new/casual players do get targeted and driven out of the game. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8754
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:39:25 -
[519] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:[ It creates and effectively lawless and dystopian society in highsec
Gasp!, you mean people are creating EVE ONLINE in high sec? How dare they?!??!
Quote: , and drives a lot of more reasonable players out of the game.
You have no proof of this at all.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8754
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:43:14 -
[520] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:poeple will always target you if u make urself an easy target just saying.
Well, I don't get targeted because I am very good at what I do. The problem is that the new/casual players do get targeted and driven out of the game.
Even if that were true (again, you have no proof, you bevel this because it fits into your insane preconceived notions), why is this your concern? No one appointed you savior of the mythical new people. I say mythical because "new people" for fly freighters lol.
This is an example of someone self appointing themselves as guardian of the "downtrodden". EVE players are mostly adults, they don't need you to crap up the forums on a crusade to "save" people to pitiful to properly learn a video game. |
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
146
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:44:36 -
[521] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Well, I don't get targeted because I am very good at what I do. The problem is that the new/casual players do get targeted and driven out of the game.
some yes, but then in warcraft (Gasp) for example nobody stopped that level 90 character killing me in the alliance capital. didnt break the game for me i just went about my business somewhere else.
in tera the same thing seemed to happen to me wherever i went.
in clash of clans people with bigger towns than mine usually raid and steal my precious loot.
i dont see hordes of players leaving the game becuase of it. therfore i conclude that it is working as intended. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8754
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:45:42 -
[522] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Haleuth wrote:
First off, why would i bother to read your huge amount of whine posts? Two is enough to realise that you do not grab the concept of what Eve online is about. The whole game, including highsec, is meant to be lawless and dystopian.
Second, with even the most basic understanding of high sec mechanics, you would realise that a -10 cannot participate in RvB. I'm there because i have alot of old friends, enjoy the banter and like to help new players with fits and isk. Yes, you read that right.....NEW PLAYERS, the very people that you state are being driven out of the game.
Third, and most importantly, players that spend one day in RvB are more elite than you. They are up for a fight without concord jamming their target for instance, something that is beyond your capabilities.
You state that you "do a tremendous amount of highsec PvE". There are countless other space mmo's that allow you to do that activity while having your hand held. It's your fault that you chose the wrong game to play.
It's also your fault that you are not well versed in ganking mechanics to have any idea how to stop them, the old eve slogan adapt or die comes to mind.
They are stoppable, you chose to fight them with words rather than guns.
More nonsense. Highsec is by definition not lawless. Never claimed RvB are -10. PvP doesn't make you more "elite" than PvE. It's a choice - both are valid. I prefer PvE. And I enjoy playing Eve for the PvE, why would I play something else. I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished.
Damn you CCP for your prohibition against talking politics on here, were it not for that i'd have some nice words for the guy who thinks that the "newbies" (poor people) need hugging and protecting and that it's the responsibility of the police to protect people from their own stupidity!!
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:47:58 -
[523] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:poeple will always target you if u make urself an easy target just saying.
Well, I don't get targeted because I am very good at what I do. The problem is that the new/casual players do get targeted and driven out of the game. Even if that were true (again, you have no proof, you bevel this because it fits into your insane preconceived notions), why is this your concern? No one appointed you savior of the mythical new people. I say mythical because "new people" for fly freighters lol. This is an example of someone self appointing themselves as guardian of the "downtrodden". EVE players are mostly adults, they don't need you to crap up the forums on a crusade to "save" people to pitiful to properly learn a video game.
The retention rate for highsec players is very low. And most people would agree that getting scammed/ganked/stomped, etc... doesn't help. I'm perfectly entitled to speak up for them. And I could care less if you consider them "pitiful," for I consider them the decent and emotionally stable people the game needs more of. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6193
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:59:45 -
[524] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
More nonsense. Highsec is by definition not lawless. Never claimed RvB are -10.
PvP doesn't make you more "elite" than PvE. It's a choice - both are valid. I prefer PvE. And I enjoy playing Eve for the PvE, why would I play something else. I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished.
*cough*
Veers "1337" Belvar wrote: I'm elite PvE, elite PvP, and elite Eve.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8755
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 15:59:57 -
[525] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
The retention rate for highsec players is very low. And most people would agree that getting scammed/ganked/stomped, etc... doesn't help.
Where is your proof?
Quote:I'm perfectly entitled to speak up for them. And I could care less if you consider them "pitiful," for I consider them the decent and emotionally stable people the game needs more of.
Again, no one appointed you to anything. Speak for yourself.
Added to that, "decent and emotionally stable" people don't quit a video game that they knew (or should have known, if they can use google) was harsh before they installed it, they press on to victory and fun. The people you are speaking for are the weak and will-less and the game is better off without them as all they would do is beg CCP to compensate for their personal lack by dumbing down the game (further).
You'd be more useful to the community if you spent your time trying to help worthy and mentally compatible people learn to survive in EVE rather than what you actually do (which is sperg uselessly on these forums).
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6467
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:03:05 -
[526] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Quote:I'm perfectly entitled to speak up for them. And I could care less if you consider them "pitiful," for I consider them the decent and emotionally stable people the game needs more of. Added to that, "decent and emotionally stable" people don't quit a video game that they knew (or should have known, if they can use google) was harsh before they installed it, they press on to victory and fun. The people you are speaking for are the weak and will-less and the game is better off without them as all they would do is beg CCP to compensate for their personal lack by dumbing down the game (further). You'd be more useful to the community if you spent your time trying to help worthy and mentally compatible people learn to survive in EVE rather than what you actually do (which is sperg uselessly on these forums). Maybe it would help if you joined the people you were speaking up for, and leave this horrible place.
Perhaps move to WoW or someplace filled with more decent and emotionally stable people.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6193
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:04:34 -
[527] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I'm perfectly entitled to speak up for them. you are entitled to speak for yourself and no one els veers, drop the messianic complex man, its ugly.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6467
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:06:32 -
[528] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I'm perfectly entitled to speak up for them. you are entitled to speak for yourself and no one els veers, drop the messianic complex man, its ugly. More like
Veers Belvar wrote:I'm perfectly entitled
Eh, wait a second
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8755
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:06:38 -
[529] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Quote:I'm perfectly entitled to speak up for them. And I could care less if you consider them "pitiful," for I consider them the decent and emotionally stable people the game needs more of. Added to that, "decent and emotionally stable" people don't quit a video game that they knew (or should have known, if they can use google) was harsh before they installed it, they press on to victory and fun. The people you are speaking for are the weak and will-less and the game is better off without them as all they would do is beg CCP to compensate for their personal lack by dumbing down the game (further). You'd be more useful to the community if you spent your time trying to help worthy and mentally compatible people learn to survive in EVE rather than what you actually do (which is sperg uselessly on these forums). Maybe it would help if you joined the people you were speaking up for, and leave this horrible place. Perhaps move to WoW or someplace filled with more decent and emotionally stable people.
I saw you replied to me and I was all like "goddamn Goons, I remember being in NCDot when yall kicked us out of Tribute, now this forum post is too far, THIS MEANS WAR!!!".
Then i realized you were talking to Veers
|
Haleuth
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:11:16 -
[530] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Haleuth wrote:
First off, why would i bother to read your huge amount of whine posts? Two is enough to realise that you do not grab the concept of what Eve online is about. The whole game, including highsec, is meant to be lawless and dystopian.
Second, with even the most basic understanding of high sec mechanics, you would realise that a -10 cannot participate in RvB. I'm there because i have alot of old friends, enjoy the banter and like to help new players with fits and isk. Yes, you read that right.....NEW PLAYERS, the very people that you state are being driven out of the game.
Third, and most importantly, players that spend one day in RvB are more elite than you. They are up for a fight without concord jamming their target for instance, something that is beyond your capabilities.
You state that you "do a tremendous amount of highsec PvE". There are countless other space mmo's that allow you to do that activity while having your hand held. It's your fault that you chose the wrong game to play.
It's also your fault that you are not well versed in ganking mechanics to have any idea how to stop them, the old eve slogan adapt or die comes to mind.
They are stoppable, you chose to fight them with words rather than guns.
More nonsense. Highsec is by definition not lawless. Never claimed RvB are -10. PvP doesn't make you more "elite" than PvE. It's a choice - both are valid. I prefer PvE. And I enjoy playing Eve for the PvE, why would I play something else. I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished.
More nonesense, high sec is safer, not safe, it's been this way for over 11 years, it's this way by design, part of the original concept, read CCP Falcon's recent post on the subject. Why should it be changed for you?
From what i see, you dont PvE, you whine on forums, constantly, thats your game, thats what you pay for. How could anyone whine as much as you do and still have the time to do any PvE?
"I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec" More nonesense, more failure to grasp what a sandbox is all about, it's the job of players to counter this activity, not CCP. And you dont stop it because your clueless.
This is what player generated content within a sandbox is all about. PvE is not content in Eve, it's a means to earn the currency to create content or be part of it. Players like you benefit from this activity. If there was no ganking, there'd be no anti ganking. If there was no ganking you would have little reason to whine on all the forums that you do on this subject.
You feel that gankers should be "properly punished". I take it that this is because you feel that this issue should be as it is in real life? Well, the police, i.e Concord act the same way as real life, they turn up after the crime has been commited.
You should come with me on some ganking, i'd be happy to teach you everything i know, you'd realise how much effort goes into the activity, and you'd learn alot about how to stop it. You might even get a taste for it.
Thats a genuine offer btw.
|
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
147
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:12:56 -
[531] - Quote
Veers is this your first/only toon?
i only ask because in my experience players who enjoy the pve are younger players.
However eventually pve becomes boring, repetitive, unchallenging and now recently not even worth it (for the loot drop nerfs ceeceepee)
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6468
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:14:21 -
[532] - Quote
Perhaps more buffs to the magical teleporting space "police"... is what they are getting at.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:15:01 -
[533] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point. I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime.
Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration.
Another devious suggestion
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
148
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:18:00 -
[534] - Quote
lock all gankers out of stations, and prohibit them from using gates they must stay in space till they are dead. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .. ... ... .. .. ... ... ... .. just kididng |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21164
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:20:00 -
[535] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I'm perfectly entitled to speak up for them.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar Nuff said
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6195
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:22:26 -
[536] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point. I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime. Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration. such as? i spend a lot of my time in game suspect flagged so . currently the 15 minuet timer is extended if i steal anything els or if i shoot at anyone's assets in space. and fyi i get shot at by players at gates all the time if i travel with that timer (bears might be cowards but you run into all sorts at gates)
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21164
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:26:26 -
[537] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point. I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime. Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration. The GCC timer is the equivalent of a custodial sentence, once you've served your "time" as it were, you're considered to be rehabilitated to a certain extent.
Jenn aSide is probably more able to explain it clearly, he deals with that sort of thing in RL.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
149
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:26:51 -
[538] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:such as? i spend a lot of my time in game suspect flagged so . currently the 15 minuet timer is extended if i steal anything els or if i shoot at anyone's assets in space. and fyi i get shot at by players at gates all the time if i travel with that timer (bears might be cowards but you run into all sorts at gates)
and in rens on BTT station.
was sitting there in my dual deadspace rep sacrilege suspect flagged.
when a fleet of frigs just started shooting me.
only had one point so they got away -1 poor poor fool.
what a delicious memory.
tried a similar thing in a vargur and no one touched me... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6469
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:27:12 -
[539] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point. I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime. Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration. Maybe the question was about sec status
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1560
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:31:52 -
[540] - Quote
Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...
X________________ |
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6196
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:36:14 -
[541] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...
X________________ better suggestion would be to play it without the body armour as is the case with rugby (much the same american "football" but played by men)
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21167
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:37:55 -
[542] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...
X________________ Don't forget about removing one of the most entertaining parts of Ice Hockey. The fact that the game can start at any time during the fight must alienate those who think an Ice Rink is for figure skating.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8757
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:49:32 -
[543] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...
X________________
Post of the damn day here.
You just described a significant portion of high sec dwelling forum posters :)
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1564
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:50:03 -
[544] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rowells wrote:Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...
X________________ better suggestion would be to play it without the body armour as is the case with rugby (much the same american "football" but played by men) I was going to suggest adding more pillows and a change to a less aggressive form of hugging the opposing players until they feel obligated to stop out of mutual friendship. Replacing the men with schoolgirls might be a welcome addition for the common man as well. Not for the reasons you think. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
109
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:52:00 -
[545] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished.
See here is the crux of your problem - you should need to stop gankers in highsec if you have a problem with them, not a NPC-based mechanism. It is a game. A game centered around conflict between players - and this conflict is the whole point of playing. And the complex ganking/security status/CONCORD system was explicitly designed to allow these repeat criminals to continually operate to drive conflict in highsec.
Repeat offenders are punished. You want them "properly punished" though. What is that? A punishment that is so severe they can't operate in highsec? That would break the game. But if you made the punishments just a little more severe and the gankers adapted and continued killing things, you would conclude that the punishment wasn't severe enough and continue arguing for further increases. This would only end when the punishments were so severe that no more ganking was possible, highsec was perfectly safe, and you had effectively removed PvP from a PvP game, thus breaking it.
Your proposals are not compatible with a functioning PvP game.
You need to step back a bit. CONCORD is not actually there to "punish" players to stop them from ganking as you seem to think. After all, ganking, and the conflict it drives are explicitly allowed by the game mechanics. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21168
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 16:53:07 -
[546] - Quote
Rowells wrote:I was going to suggest adding more pillows and a change to a less aggressive form of hugging the opposing players until they feel obligated to stop out of mutual friendship. Replacing the men with schoolgirls scantily clad cheerleaders might be a welcome addition for the common man as well. Not for all of the reasons you think. FTFY
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Haleuth
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
11
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 17:09:59 -
[547] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished. See here is the crux of your problem - you should need to stop gankers in highsec if you have a problem with them, not a NPC-based mechanism. It is a game. A game centered around conflict between players - and this conflict is the whole point of playing. And the complex ganking/security status/CONCORD system was explicitly designed to allow these repeat criminals to continually operate to drive conflict in highsec. Repeat offenders are punished. You want them "properly punished" though. What is that? A punishment that is so severe they can't operate in highsec? That would break the game. But if you made the punishments just a little more severe and the gankers adapted and continued killing things, you would conclude that the punishment wasn't severe enough and continue arguing for further increases. This would only end when the punishments were so severe that no more ganking was possible, highsec was perfectly safe, and you had effectively removed PvP from a PvP game, thus breaking it. Your proposals are not compatible with a functioning PvP game. You need to step back a bit. CONCORD is not actually there to "punish" players to stop them from ganking as you seem to think. After all, ganking, and the conflict it drives are explicitly allowed by the game mechanics.
Lets hope he can stand back and unstand this.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21173
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 17:20:34 -
[548] - Quote
Haleuth wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished. See here is the crux of your problem - you should need to stop gankers in highsec if you have a problem with them, not a NPC-based mechanism. It is a game. A game centered around conflict between players - and this conflict is the whole point of playing. And the complex ganking/security status/CONCORD system was explicitly designed to allow these repeat criminals to continually operate to drive conflict in highsec. Repeat offenders are punished. You want them "properly punished" though. What is that? A punishment that is so severe they can't operate in highsec? That would break the game. But if you made the punishments just a little more severe and the gankers adapted and continued killing things, you would conclude that the punishment wasn't severe enough and continue arguing for further increases. This would only end when the punishments were so severe that no more ganking was possible, highsec was perfectly safe, and you had effectively removed PvP from a PvP game, thus breaking it. Your proposals are not compatible with a functioning PvP game. You need to step back a bit. CONCORD is not actually there to "punish" players to stop them from ganking as you seem to think. After all, ganking, and the conflict it drives are explicitly allowed by the game mechanics. Lets hope he can stand back and unstand this. Doubtful, it's Veers, unless you're him or agree with him, you're wrong as far as he's concerned
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6206
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:04:53 -
[549] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Rowells wrote:Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...
X________________ better suggestion would be to play it without the body armour as is the case with rugby (much the same american "football" but played by men) I was going to suggest adding more pillows and a change to a less aggressive form of hugging the opposing players until they feel obligated to stop out of mutual friendship. Replacing the men with schoolgirls might be a welcome addition for the common man as well. Not for the reasons you think. forgive me but didn't you just describe american football?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:31:39 -
[550] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point. I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime. Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration. such as? i spend a lot of my time in game suspect flagged so . currently the 15 minuet timer is extended if i steal anything els or if i shoot at anyone's assets in space. and fyi i get shot at by players at gates all the time if i travel with that timer (bears might be cowards but you run into all sorts at gates)
As soon as you hit -5 security status then that flag is effectively permanent but until that point it is always 15mins, why not have a progressively longer flag the more crime you comit until you reach -5 security status ?
Another devious suggestion
|
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6210
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:41:43 -
[551] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point. I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime. Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration. such as? i spend a lot of my time in game suspect flagged so . currently the 15 minuet timer is extended if i steal anything els or if i shoot at anyone's assets in space. and fyi i get shot at by players at gates all the time if i travel with that timer (bears might be cowards but you run into all sorts at gates) As soon as you hit -5 security status then that flag is effectively permanent but until that point it is always 15mins, why not have a progressively longer flag the more crime you comit until you reach -5 security status ? once you hit -2 sec status the local npc's start chasing you and will asplode your ship when they catch you
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 18:56:31 -
[552] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
once you hit -2 sec status the local npc's start chasing you and will asplode your ship when they catch you
yes in 1.0 sec level systems, there is that progressive sec level where they do it
-2, -2.5,-3, -3.5 -4 ect..
Translate that to
10 min 12 min 15 min 19 min 24 min 30 min
Though I'm not sure that is quite what we are looking for. the suspect flag works fine maybe for low sec violence and can flipping but I think what they want is that when someone is Concorded and criminal flagged, that flag should downgrade to suspect when the timer is up for x amount of time.
The only thing I don't like about this idea is that it is all taking way from gankers without giving anything back to keep them in business.
Another devious suggestion
|
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1202
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:03:09 -
[553] - Quote
I thought dealing with carebears on a daily basis was punishment enough, now we're talking about punishing gankers further?
CCP has no sense of humour.
|
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:06:47 -
[554] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:I thought dealing with carebears on a daily basis was punishment enough, now we're talking about punishing gankers further?
You could remove the -5 sec status ruling if the suspect flags were long enough to keep everyone happy.
Another devious suggestion
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6213
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:43:36 -
[555] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Some Rando wrote:I thought dealing with carebears on a daily basis was punishment enough, now we're talking about punishing gankers further? You could remove the -5 sec status ruling if the suspect flags were long enough to keep everyone happy. nevil...have you ever actually gone suspect?
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1203
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 19:56:54 -
[556] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:nevil...have you ever actually gone suspect? Obviously not if he views it as a form of "punishment". "Downgrading" to suspect from criminal isn't going to change how people operate in the slightest.
CCP has no sense of humour.
|
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 21:03:14 -
[557] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: nevil...have you ever actually gone suspect?
Yeah, usually when I haven't fleeted a corp mate and they have run out of cargo space, so I have to steal from their wreck. I try not to make a habit of it.
Another devious suggestion
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2827
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 21:12:16 -
[558] - Quote
This all seems to continually converge upon not getting emotionally invested in video games.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
|
Nevil Oscillator
40
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 21:48:24 -
[559] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:nevil...have you ever actually gone suspect? Obviously not if he views it as a form of "punishment". "Downgrading" to suspect from criminal isn't going to change how people operate in the slightest.
You want to go suspect for 60 minutes after your criminal flag has expired ?
Another devious suggestion
|
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1204
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 22:09:02 -
[560] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:You want to go suspect for 60 minutes after your criminal flag has expired ? Please explain to me why the suspect flag would matter to me if I'm -5 sec status already and going for another gank after my criminal flag ran out. Or hell, if I'm -2 sec status, even.
CCP has no sense of humour.
|
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Nevil Oscillator
42
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 22:47:07 -
[561] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:You want to go suspect for 60 minutes after your criminal flag has expired ? Please explain to me why the suspect flag would matter to me if I'm -5 sec status already and going for another gank after my criminal flag ran out. Or hell, if I'm -2 sec status, even.
Dunno, for a minute then you got me thinking they are invincible
Another devious suggestion
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
10334
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 23:49:42 -
[562] - Quote
I love the part where Tears Belvar adamantly states that no one should be forced to PvP, but that PvP oriented players should in fact be forced into PvE activities.
Because you cannot be a carebear without being a hypocrite, folks. They are inseparable.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1204
|
Posted - 2014.10.27 23:56:21 -
[563] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Dunno, for a minute then you got me thinking they are invincible All a suspect flag does is let other people to freely shoot you. Having a -5 sec status also allows other people to freely shoot you as well as other drawbacks. Therefore, having a suspect flag means nothing to the -5 person since they're already worse off anyway. For the newbie gankers with a -2 sec status, this also doesn't matter because it just acts like -5 while they're losing sec status blowing people up; they'll soon be -5 anyway. Downgrading flags with added timers won't change anything.
CCP has no sense of humour.
|
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
634
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 01:06:04 -
[564] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:This all seems to continually converge upon not getting emotionally invested in video games.
Of course if you enjoy EVE you are emotionally invested. While that's a cure to the situation the situation is that the root of PvP is PvP for the sake of PvP and no logic drives it.
Crab Bucket EVE |
Nevil Oscillator
42
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 01:12:02 -
[565] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Dunno, for a minute then you got me thinking they are invincible All a suspect flag does is let other people freely shoot you. Having a -5 sec status also allows other people to freely shoot you as well as other drawbacks. Therefore, having a suspect flag means nothing to the -5 person since they're already worse off anyway. For the newbie gankers with a -2 sec status, this also doesn't matter because it just acts like -5 while they're losing sec status blowing people up; they'll soon be -5 anyway. Downgrading flags with added timers won't change anything.
I'm really not seeing -5 sec status that often in high sec.
Another devious suggestion
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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
1055
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 03:32:33 -
[566] - Quote
Whenever I see an article about bitter, detached people using online anonymity to bully others that are less knowledgeable or experienced about a game (oh my) I pretty much know where to find a bunch of those people.
EvE should change its slogan from "Trust no One" to "Ignore most".
But then again if CCP did their part to constantly innovate and change the paradigm people would have less opportunity to hone their bitterness into well crafted weapons.
No one is innocent, you choose to play or not. Unfortunately many would choose to see this game die than live if it meant they had to spend a single moment thinking.
This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Luwc
Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole
264
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 07:39:59 -
[567] - Quote
well.
in a nutshell.
"nice lamborghini you got. can I drive it ? but only around the block" - from a random stranger.
same thing.
You just have been stupid i.e. naive.
http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
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beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 09:51:41 -
[568] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Whenever I see an article about bitter, detached people using online anonymity to bully others that are less knowledgeable or experienced about a game (oh my) I pretty much know where to find a bunch of those people. It's funny; whenever I see an article about bitter, detached people using online anonymity to bully others, it makes me think that playing EVE ought to be mandatory. |
Nevil Oscillator
42
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 11:08:31 -
[569] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Whenever I see an article about bitter, detached people using online anonymity to bully others that are less knowledgeable or experienced about a game (oh my) I pretty much know where to find a bunch of those people. It's funny; whenever I see an article about bitter, detached people using online anonymity to bully others, it makes me think that playing EVE ought to be mandatory.
It makes me think, why do they think I care that much ?
Another devious suggestion
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6249
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 11:36:19 -
[570] - Quote
^^ http://i.imgur.com/AJrLSKY.jpg
if your going to troll nevil, at least make it funny.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8767
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 12:36:29 -
[571] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I love the part where Tears Belvar adamantly states that no one should be forced to PvP, but that PvP oriented players should in fact be forced into PvE activities.
Because you cannot be a carebear without being a hypocrite, folks. They are inseparable.
That's even more true than you know, double standards are at the heart of 'carebearism'.
Care bears want "to be left alone" to do what they want, but what they want to do involves actions that have a measurable impact on others. Every unit of ore they mine decrease the value of everyone Else's ore. Every NPC bounty they receive lowers the value of the isk in everyone Else's wallet. Every LP store item they acquire does the same thing. They KNOW this.
Yet they claim that they "aren't hurting anyone and stay in high second so should be left alone". If they wanted to be "alone" and didn't care about the money {*} they'd be playing on SiSi, or would be playing another space based mmo (like Star Trek Online that by designed doesn't allowed unwanted pvp) or would be playing X-Rebrith where other players can't even get to them at all in any way because it's a single player game.
No, what they really want is to have their cake (ie gameplay in a multiplayer environment where actions matter) and eat it too (total safety against OTHER people's actions mattering. At the heart of carebearism is a deep and unrepentant selfishness that this game world would be so much better without.
As a PVE player (but not a carebear) I understand and accept that the price I pay for doing what I want (exploring, mission running etc) is having to spend time and effort on protecting myself and my interests from players who (legitimately within the EULA) have competing interests, whether it's that guy in Jita undercutting my price on Virtue implants or that guy in Osmon who just went suspect in Osmon as he steals my mission objective (hah hah fool, I'm +9 to Sisters of EVE, i just fail the mission and get another, good luck selling that thing you tried to extort me for on contracts ).
I despise true carebears so much that I'm going to Washington DC about it. I'm going to form a PAC (political action committee) to lobby congress for anti carebear laws. My PAC will actually be named, well, PAC... "PVErs Against Carebearism". Don't forget to vote in November!
-- {*} just to add, i remember before the 1st incursion nerf how many in the community railed against the changes because "imaginary space money doesn't matter, I run incursions for the community aspect" CCP nerfed incursions and the same community that didn't care about the isk F'd off back to missions or faction warfare to make better money, leaving the incursion communities they claimed to love behind to die until CCP slightly un-nerfed them.
I guess it really was about the imaginary space money after all |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:25:39 -
[572] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Whenever I see an article about bitter, detached people using online anonymity to bully others that are less knowledgeable or experienced about a game (oh my) I pretty much know where to find a bunch of those people.
EvE should change its slogan from "Trust no One" to "Ignore most".
But then again if CCP did their part to constantly innovate and change the paradigm people would have less opportunity to hone their bitterness into well crafted weapons.
No one is innocent, you choose to play or not. Unfortunately many would choose to see this game die than live if it meant they had to spend a single moment thinking.
Yes, it's pretty pathetic how the only enjoyment for so many PvP folks comes from trying to make other players, especially PvE ones, miserable. It's one thing to go after people because you have some legitimate strategic objective to achieve, but to go after people just because you can and just because you enjoying spreading misery is nothing short of disgraceful and dysfunctional. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
149
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:35:06 -
[573] - Quote
i agree with u but this wouldnt happen if the bears had teeth. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:38:53 -
[574] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:i agree with u but this wouldnt happen if the bears had teeth.
You shouldn't need "teeth" to operate in high security space. The police force should punish with enough force to deter the conduct. This means progressively more painful punishments for repeat criminals, and especially for those whose sole in game play is to commit crimes in highsec. Players in Eve are not law enforcement, they have no power to punish beyond destroying ship and pod, and since gankers can accomplish their goals with laughably cheap versions of those, it follows that player punishments have no tangible impact. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
149
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:43:33 -
[575] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:You shouldn't need "teeth" to operate in high security space. The police force should punish with enough force to deter the conduct. This means progressively more painful punishments for repeat criminals, and especially for those whose sole in game play is to commit crimes in highsec. Players in Eve are not law enforcement, they have no power to punish beyond destroying ship and pod, and since gankers can accomplish their goals with laughably cheap versions of those, it follows that player punishments have no tangible impact.
do the police do that in real life? or do people get off scott free all the time for things like gbh and assault.
a friend of mine was attacked by another dude chocked and slammed up against a wall all in front of cctv. police didnt want to know.
If you walk around the city flashing your cash and ur expensive **** do u think that people will not target you. also dont you think they would be less likely to target you if u were also extremely muscular and known to not take bullshit from people?
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:50:57 -
[576] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:You shouldn't need "teeth" to operate in high security space. The police force should punish with enough force to deter the conduct. This means progressively more painful punishments for repeat criminals, and especially for those whose sole in game play is to commit crimes in highsec. Players in Eve are not law enforcement, they have no power to punish beyond destroying ship and pod, and since gankers can accomplish their goals with laughably cheap versions of those, it follows that player punishments have no tangible impact. do the police do that in real life? or do people get off scott free all the time for things like gbh and assault. a friend of mine was attacked by another dude choked and slammed up against a wall all in front of cctv. police didnt want to know. If you walk around the city flashing your cash and ur expensive **** do u think that people will not target you. also dont you think they would be less likely to target you if u were also extremely muscular and known to not take bullshit from people?
Not sure where you are from but where I live in upper-middle class suburbia the police take these things very seriously. Sure if one low class/gang affiliated/criminal record person assaults another low class/gang affiliated/criminal record person the police may not express much interest. But if someone commits assault against middle to upper class law abiding citizens with no criminal record the severe punishments tend to follow quickly, not to mention the civil lawsuits.
Which is what highsec should be like. Shooting people with dodgy reputations? Slap on the wrist. Shooting the core law abiding PvE population? Severe punishment.
Again, I don't know where you are from, but where I live there are expensive cars/houses/jewelry all over, and no people don't come and "target" us because of the significant deterrent imposed by the legal system as well as the robust and visible police force. Somehow, despite being neither muscular nor known for my brawling skills, I have managed to avoid being targeted for RL crimes. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
149
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:53:47 -
[577] - Quote
well life isnt cushty all over.
there are places...
on earth...
where people eat other people... |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
237
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:54:57 -
[578] - Quote
Dev's refusal to draw any sort of line. Refusal to talk about any policy. Refusal to admit they derped. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2841
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:56:02 -
[579] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:well life isnt cushty all over.
there are places...
on earth...
where people eat other people...
The Ozarks and Appalachia in the US come to mind.
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Improve the forums, support this idea:
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
149
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:57:03 -
[580] - Quote
lol |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:57:15 -
[581] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:well life isnt cushty all over.
there are places...
on earth...
where people eat other people...
True, you might call them, oh...I don't know.... nullsec?
Why should highsec resemble those places? Why not have a range of police presence throughout space, and let people CHOOSE where they want to live? Kinda like now, but with much more severe consequences for committing crimes in highsec.
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1204
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 14:57:57 -
[582] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:It's one thing to go after people because you have some legitimate strategic objective to achieve, but to go after people just because you can and just because you enjoying spreading misery is nothing short of disgraceful and dysfunctional. Ah, but ganking does have a legitimate strategic objective: it helps make the economy go round. Why, if carebears didn't have anything to lose they really wouldn't have anything to gain!
Also, in CODE.'s case at least, the ganking spectacle makes them money. Think of it as theatre. I paid for my two tickets and, look! I am entertained!
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
149
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:00:41 -
[583] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:True, you might call them, oh...I don't know.... nullsec?
Why should highsec resemble those places? Why not have a range of police presence throughout space, and let people CHOOSE where they want to live? Kinda like now, but with much more severe consequences for committing crimes in highsec.
do u want to hold hands as well? |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2841
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:04:11 -
[584] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:True, you might call them, oh...I don't know.... nullsec?
Why should highsec resemble those places? Why not have a range of police presence throughout space, and let people CHOOSE where they want to live? Kinda like now, but with much more severe consequences for committing crimes in highsec.
do u want to hold hands as well?
Probably not with you, he has a mancrush on Baltec1.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:12:47 -
[585] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:True, you might call them, oh...I don't know.... nullsec?
Why should highsec resemble those places? Why not have a range of police presence throughout space, and let people CHOOSE where they want to live? Kinda like now, but with much more severe consequences for committing crimes in highsec.
do u want to hold hands as well? Probably not with you, he has a mancrush on Baltec1.
get help |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21202
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:16:37 -
[586] - Quote
Veers Belvar, in every post he makes wrote:I have delusions of grandeur and grossly misunderstand the nature of the game I have chosen to play.
I believe that highsec should be the equivalent of a gated community, one with a police officer on every corner to stop the nasty people from making my spaceship explode or using my own stupidity against me to achieve their own ends.
I believe that people who indulge in the darker side of Eve are nasty people in real life, because their in game persona is a direct reflection of them in real life.
I want CCP to change their game so that those that play the game as villains in highsec are punished in the manner in which I feel to be appropriate, because I'm too damn lazy to use the mechanics already available to me to do it myself.
I know better than anyone, including CCP, what is good for the game.
I'm an expert in all matters Eve related, listen to me because I'm always right.
I shall randomly insult people and then reroll my corp when they decide to retort ingame. All of the above wasn't actually posted by Veers, however it's a pretty accurate summary of his posts IMHO.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
150
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:17:19 -
[587] - Quote
be careful veers those are goons. who u know burn jita
like **** da police |
Lupe Meza
Hedion University Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:19:54 -
[588] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:i agree with u but this wouldnt happen if the bears had teeth. You shouldn't need "teeth" to operate in high security space. The police force should punish with enough force to deter the conduct. This means progressively more painful punishments for repeat criminals, and especially for those whose sole in game play is to commit crimes in highsec. Players in Eve are not law enforcement, they have no power to punish beyond destroying ship and pod, and since gankers can accomplish their goals with laughably cheap versions of those, it follows that player punishments have no tangible impact.
Not sure if I completely agree, a player in EvE's role is whatever that player decides it to be. So if they decide to be a perpetual victim that doesn't "need the teeth" required to defend themselves or their interests in this game so be it. But in the end, they will be just that, a perpetual victim.
That said however, I don't think the current state of affairs in balanced because of some of the reasons you brought up. When you have so many multi-year old characters with scads of disposable income and free time because they are "bored" that they aimlessly can throw away ships for the express purpose of ruining another's play experience solely for the sake of ruining another's play experience; I'm not seeing where they are ever truly at "risk," yet they consider to reap the "reward" of their activities.
It is a bizarre universe where missioners, miners and industrialists are at greater risk in high security space than "Highsec PvP'ers". I personally wouldn't mind CCP putting more weight into a persistent system where your actions have more consequence, especially those that result in sec loss, in space that is labeled as High Security. Pirates and criminals should be about as safe in High Sec as a carebear missioner is in low sec in my opinion. I'm talking gate and station lockout in high sec for any action that causes you to go supsect for the duration of the suspect timer to give the victim or third parties a chance to hunt the offender down, doubling the amount of tags required to improve sec status, and lowering the negative status required to be permanently engage-able in High Sec.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:20:43 -
[589] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:be careful veers those are goons. who u know burn jita
like **** da police
I think you meant to say -
Be careful Veers, those are Goons, who u know just abandoned a nice chunk of their sov and renters, holed up in Deklein like a bunch of cowards, and are about to get beaten down by a whole multitude of bigger kids on the block. RIP Goons. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
622
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:23:33 -
[590] - Quote
Oh the buttery goodness. If only my popcorn also came with bacon. Did anyone else happen to read the OP's most recent post in this thread? I'll TL;DR it for you... Enlightened Recantment. Sooo... given that, the bloody shirt, why is it still being waved? Propagation of a false notion of safety in highsec is a disservice to every nooblet who plays this game. By championing this cause you are poisoning the very people whom you claim to protect. You do harm by shielding them from the world, and no amount of sperging is going to change the nature of the world into this virtual beary bear paradise you envision for all. Stahp. |
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
150
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:23:51 -
[591] - Quote
i heard pl sold a lot of thier space recently as well. i guess becuase of the changes to long distance travel a lot of big corps/alliances are re-evaluating the space they can effectively hold. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2841
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:26:08 -
[592] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:True, you might call them, oh...I don't know.... nullsec?
Why should highsec resemble those places? Why not have a range of police presence throughout space, and let people CHOOSE where they want to live? Kinda like now, but with much more severe consequences for committing crimes in highsec.
do u want to hold hands as well? Probably not with you, he has a mancrush on Baltec1. get help
I don't need it I can separate the game from real life whereas you cannot.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8774
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:26:42 -
[593] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:You shouldn't need "teeth" to operate in high security space. The police force should punish with enough force to deter the conduct. This means progressively more painful punishments for repeat criminals, and especially for those whose sole in game play is to commit crimes in highsec. Players in Eve are not law enforcement, they have no power to punish beyond destroying ship and pod, and since gankers can accomplish their goals with laughably cheap versions of those, it follows that player punishments have no tangible impact. do the police do that in real life? or do people get off scott free all the time for things like gbh and assault. a friend of mine was attacked by another dude choked and slammed up against a wall all in front of cctv. police didnt want to know. If you walk around the city flashing your cash and ur expensive **** do u think that people will not target you. also dont you think they would be less likely to target you if u were also extremely muscular and known to not take bullshit from people? Not sure where you are from but where I live in upper-middle class suburbia the police take these things very seriously. Sure if one low class/gang affiliated/criminal record person assaults another low class/gang affiliated/criminal record person the police may not express much interest. But if someone commits assault against middle to upper class law abiding citizens with no criminal record the severe punishments tend to follow quickly, not to mention the civil lawsuits. Which is what highsec should be like. Shooting people with dodgy reputations? Slap on the wrist. Shooting the core law abiding PvE population? Severe punishment. Again, I don't know where you are from, but where I live there are expensive cars/houses/jewelry all over, and no people don't come and "target" us because of the significant deterrent imposed by the legal system as well as the robust and visible police force. Somehow, despite being neither muscular nor known for my brawling skills, I have managed to avoid being targeted for RL crimes.
That you come from that the kind of coddled and entitled real life environment where one does not feel the need to take responsibility for his own personal safety comes as absolutely no shock what-so-ever.
And i mean that, as a member of "real life CONCORD" (if only I could magically drop out of the like in game CONCORD could, that would be aces lol), I deal with (and take reports from) your type all the time. The "I pay taxes so other people should protect me" types who ALWAYS get victimized, unlike the "my protection is my responsibility, the police are just back up and after event clean up" types who NEVER get victimized.
EVE mirrors real life. Just as I've seen people get mad at everyone (The gankers, the scammers, CCP etc) but themselves, I've seen people in real life get mad at ME for not magically being around to stop that guy that broke into their BMW they parked on a public street with an IPhone, Ipad and laptop in the passengers seat in plain view instead of taking the literal 5 seconds it would have taken to put those items in the trunk or at least hide them by covering them and putting them in the floor.
Funny thing is, I come from a high crime type area and learning how to not 'get got' happens around the time you learn how to walk....just like EVE. This may be why people like me (real PVE players) fit into EVE and people from the more....1st world...neighborhoods tend to...well, not lol.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:27:57 -
[594] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:i heard pl sold a lot of thier space recently as well. i guess becuase of the changes to long distance travel a lot of big corps/alliances are re-evaluating the space they can effectively hold.
All of it, from what I understand. Northern Coalition is also abandoning huge swaths of renter sov.
All the nullsec empires are being forced to consolidate, and to move closer to each other, which should create some nice conflicts and power changes in nullsec at last. The biggest losers in all this will be the CFC/Goons (and who knows if the CFC is even worth keeping anymore), who will now actually need to PLAY the game. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
150
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:30:34 -
[595] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:which should create some nice conflicts and power changes in nullsec at last.
i certainly hope so |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:30:36 -
[596] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:That you come from that the kind of coddled and entitled real life environment where one does not feel the need to take responsibility for his own personal safety comes as absolutely no shock what-so-ever. And i mean that, as a member of "real life CONCORD" (if only I could magically drop out of the like in game CONCORD could, that would be aces lol), I deal with (and take reports from) your type all the time. The "I pay taxes so other people should protect me" types who ALWAYS get victimized, unlike the "my protection is my responsibility, the police are just back up and after event clean up" types who NEVER get victimized. EVE mirrors real life. Just as I've seen people get mad at everyone (The gankers, the scammers, CCP etc) but themselves, I've seen people in real life get mad at ME for not magically being around to stop that guy that broke into their BMW they parked on a public street with an IPhone, Ipad and laptop in the passengers seat in plain view instead of taking the literal 5 seconds it would have taken to put those items in the trunk or at least hide them by covering them and putting them in the floor. Funny thing is, I come from a high crime type area and learning how to not 'get got' happens around the time you learn how to walk....just like EVE. This may be why people like me (real PVE players) fit into EVE and people from the more....1st world...neighborhoods tend to...well, not lol.
And yet, amusingly, despite your whole diatribe, you apparently failed to realize that I have been victimized neither in Eve nor in RL. So seems I am "fitting" in just fine, thank you. As opposed to the miners, haulers, etc.... who get stomped on by new players and quit the game, apparently to the delight of many here. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
150
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:32:20 -
[597] - Quote
in jenna's defence you go on about it like it happens to you everyday. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2843
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:33:02 -
[598] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: And yet, amusingly, despite your whole diatribe, you apparently failed to realize that I have been victimized neither in Eve nor in RL. So seems I am "fitting" in just fine, thank you. As opposed to the miners, haulers, etc.... who get stomped on by new players and quit the game, apparently to the delight of many here.
Good the bolded part is the point and intentional. You shouldn't be victimized in real life over anything done here in the game. If newbies are ganking haulers and miners good for them too hopefully they have found their niche in the game.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:34:37 -
[599] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:in jenna's defence you go on about it like it happens to you everyday.
No, I go on about it because it happens to MULTIPLE OTHER PEOPLE every day, and they mostly respond by quitting the game and are not here to post about it. Or else they do post about it and get relentlessly mocked and disparaged. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
153
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:37:42 -
[600] - Quote
friends of yours? |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:38:45 -
[601] - Quote
Not really. But I see their being driven out as bad for the game, and choose to speak out about it. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2843
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:39:44 -
[602] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:in jenna's defence you go on about it like it happens to you everyday. No, I go on about it because it happens to MULTIPLE OTHER PEOPLE every day, and they mostly respond by quitting the game and are not here to post about it. Or else they do post about it and get relentlessly mocked and disparaged.
Ah the so called silent majority which you cannot prove nor show any evidence of existence. Badposting will always have some sort of retribution for it hence the mocking. Maybe you and the rest of the "silent majority" could learn to post better and things would be different.
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
153
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:40:59 -
[603] - Quote
i dont know man this game is in its second decade now. It hasnt had too many people leave due to suicide ganks that it cant run a pay to play model.
Other games dont make it very far at all before they go FTP.
the situation cant be as dire as your saying. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:41:41 -
[604] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:in jenna's defence you go on about it like it happens to you everyday. No, I go on about it because it happens to MULTIPLE OTHER PEOPLE every day, and they mostly respond by quitting the game and are not here to post about it. Or else they do post about it and get relentlessly mocked and disparaged. Ah the so called silent majority which you cannot prove nor show any evidence of existence. Badposting will always have some sort of retribution for it hence the mocking. Maybe you and the rest of the "silent majority" could learn to post better and things would be different.
Thankfully I'm unconcerned what the Goonie propaganda machine thinks about my posting.
Why don't you try flying around highsec belt to belt and asking the miners and haulers what they think about Code, suicide ganking, etc...? I have, and the overwhelming feeling is that the game mechanics are broken and favor the bad guys. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
626
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:42:07 -
[605] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
And yet, amusingly, despite your whole diatribe, you apparently failed to realize that I have been victimized neither in Eve nor in RL. So seems I am "fitting" in just fine, thank you. As opposed to the miners, haulers, etc.... who get stomped on by new players and quit the game, apparently to the delight of many here.
If miners and haulers are being stomped on by new players and subsequently quit the game, then yes I do take great delight in this as it shows that our new players get it, and the miners and haulers do not. This is not WoW. This is not EQ. Any attempt made to turn it into any other themepark game will be met with the fiercest of resistance by those of us who have made New Eden our home, pve'r and pvp'r alike. Those who cannot adapt to the nature of EVE, quit. This has been a daily occurrence for over ten years now. It's a good thing.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8774
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:43:10 -
[606] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
And yet, amusingly, despite your whole diatribe, you apparently failed to realize that I have been victimized neither in Eve nor in RL. So seems I am "fitting" in just fine, thank you. As opposed to the miners, haulers, etc.... who get stomped on by new players and quit the game, apparently to the delight of many here.
Very few people display the kind of crusader like mentality you do without having been victimized 1st.
However, pure bleeding heart ideologues who self appoint themselves as saviors of the downtrodden do sometimes exist. Oddly enough, they too tend to come from highly coddled and entitled backgrounds/families/neighborhoods and feel the need (and the right) to "speak up" for us poor, mistreated "minorities" as if we were pets and not people. I know your type Veers, and I despise it.
Back to the point. Your outlook is completely incompatible and at odds with what a game like EVE is. If any player (new or not) can be run out of the game due to legitimate (meaning "within the rules of the EULA") in game actions, that means they didn't have the mental toughness to play the game in the 1st place. You are defending bad choices and weakness.
If you don't like what goes on in EVE, why are you playing this game instead of games meant for people like you? Games that don't allow the kinds of things EVE does.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2843
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:45:33 -
[607] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Thankfully I'm unconcerned what the Goonie propaganda machine thinks about my posting.
Why don't you try flying around highsec belt to belt and asking the miners and haulers what they think about Code, suicide ganking, etc...? I have, and the overwhelming feeling is that the game mechanics are broken and favor the bad guys.
A feeling but, no evidence and a mind boggling amount of angst. EVE is kind of like Dark Souls first you start human like Veers here, then over time the anger and angst eats away at you until you end up a hollowed shell like Anslo.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:53:12 -
[608] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Very few people display the kind of crusader like mentality you do without having been victimized 1st.
However, pure bleeding heart ideologues who self appoint themselves as saviors of the downtrodden do sometimes exist. Oddly enough, they too tend to come from highly coddled and entitled backgrounds/families/neighborhoods and feel the need (and the right) to "speak up" for us poor, mistreated "minorities" as if we were pets and not people. I know your type Veers, and I despise it.
Back to the point. Your outlook is completely incompatible and at odds with what a game like EVE is. If any player (new or not) can be run out of the game due to legitimate (meaning "within the rules of the EULA") in game actions, that means they didn't have the mental toughness to play the game in the 1st place. You are defending bad choices and weakness.
If you don't like what goes on in EVE, why are you playing this game instead of games meant for people like you? Games that don't allow the kinds of things EVE does.
Well Jenn, I delight in your despising me. Heck, if someone like you had ANY positive feeling for me, I would be unconcerned. That the people who play Eve solely to inflict misery on others despise me is something that I take great pride in, and would hope that it continues unabated indefinitely.
And I completely disagree with your characterization of Eve. Once again you simply ignore any inconvenient facts to reach conclusions that just coincidentally match your pre-conceived notions.
For example - you ignore the existence of rookie systems and the strict griefing restrictions therein, you ignore the broad availability of PvE in highsec, you ignore the infallible CONCORD presence. Literally you ignore the existence of every game mechanic meant to bring a measure of security and safety to highsec, or meant to protect new players.
CCP has already taken multiple steps to protect new players and create a measure of safety in highsec, all measures that I fully support. So perhaps it is you who is playing the wrong game and should look for something else? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21204
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:54:42 -
[609] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: Thankfully I'm unconcerned what the Goonie propaganda machine thinks about my posting.
Why don't you try flying around highsec belt to belt and asking the miners and haulers what they think about Code, suicide ganking, etc...? I have, and the overwhelming feeling is that the game mechanics are broken and favor the bad guys.
A feeling but, no evidence and a mind boggling amount of angst. EVE is kind of like Dark Souls first you start human like Veers here, then over time the anger and angst eats away at you until you end up a hollowed shell like Anslo. Evidence is overrated, hyperbole and misinformed opinion are far more relevant
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
154
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:58:56 -
[610] - Quote
so ur mining right.
in a fleet.
ok
and gankers drop in.
surely the miners have drones and stuff?
would it be so bad to take jamming drones as well? (i know this doesnt guarantee safety)
or if ur in a fleet could assign all drones to someone and start alphaing ships.
surely a tank procurer with sevral drones assigned to him can kill an untanked catalyst?
do the miners watch d s-scan? or are they afk?
maybe if they pvpd a bit they would know how to assign drones.
Ther is also no reason not to be on comms in eve. Its available in game free of charge.
If they are getting ganked and not enjoying and cant defend themselves i pity them. but i cannot help them, if i did they would rely on me and still not learn.
they must help themsleves |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 15:58:59 -
[611] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: Thankfully I'm unconcerned what the Goonie propaganda machine thinks about my posting.
Why don't you try flying around highsec belt to belt and asking the miners and haulers what they think about Code, suicide ganking, etc...? I have, and the overwhelming feeling is that the game mechanics are broken and favor the bad guys.
A feeling but, no evidence and a mind boggling amount of angst. EVE is kind of like Dark Souls first you start human like Veers here, then over time the anger and angst eats away at you until you end up a hollowed shell like Anslo. Evidence is overrated, hyperbole and misinformed opinion are far more relevant
Feel free to launch the New Eden Pew Institute for Polling to gauge the opinions of highsec miners on ganking and bumping. |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:00:38 -
[612] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Not sure where you are from but where I live in upper-middle class suburbia the police take these things very seriously. Sure if one low class/gang affiliated/criminal record person assaults another low class/gang affiliated/criminal record person the police may not express much interest. But if someone commits assault against middle to upper class law abiding citizens with no criminal record the severe punishments tend to follow quickly, not to mention the civil lawsuits.
Which is what highsec should be like. Shooting people with dodgy reputations? Slap on the wrist. Shooting the core law abiding PvE population? Severe punishment.
Again, I don't know where you are from, but where I live there are expensive cars/houses/jewelry all over, and no people don't come and "target" us because of the significant deterrent imposed by the legal system as well as the robust and visible police force. Somehow, despite being neither muscular nor known for my brawling skills, I have managed to avoid being targeted for RL crimes.
With respect? You live in a fantasy world IRL. The police don't care about the 'upper middle class' like you are talking about. They react to the squeaky wheels who complain the most. Not to people who get attacked/scammed/robbed and don't talk about it.
You sound fairly young and very naive. Wait a few years and you will realize the world IRL is a lot more like EVE than you think. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21208
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:02:21 -
[613] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Well Jenn, I delight in your despising me. Heck, if someone like you had ANY positive feeling for me, I would be unconcerned. That the people who play Eve solely to inflict misery on others despise me is something that I take great pride in, and would hope that it continues unabated indefinitely.
You do realise that Jenn aSide is actually one of the people that you claim to represent? He is a PvE player afterall.
The only misery he inflicts is unto NPC's and shitposters such as yourself
Quote: Once again you simply ignore any inconvenient facts to reach conclusions that just coincidentally match your pre-conceived notions. Have you looked in a mirror recently? The person you're describing in this little gem is YOU.
Quote:you ignore the existence of rookie systems and the strict griefing restrictions therein, you ignore the broad availability of PvE in highsec, you ignore the infallible CONCORD presence. Nope, nope and nope. None of these things have been ignored.
Quote:Literally you ignore the existence of every game mechanic meant to bring a measure of security and safety to highsec, or meant to protect new players.
CCP has already taken multiple steps to protect new players and create a measure of safety in highsec, all measures that I fully support. Highsec is already safer than it has been at any time in the past.
Quote:So perhaps it is you who is playing the wrong game and should look for something else? Maybe you should take your own advice and stop trying to water Eve down into just another MMO. Eve has been doing just fine for 11 years, it's outlasted numerous other MMO's.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2849
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:02:42 -
[614] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Feel free to launch the New Eden Pew Institute for Polling to gauge the opinions of highsec miners on ganking and bumping.
You made the claim you provide the evidence.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:04:16 -
[615] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Feel free to launch the New Eden Pew Institute for Polling to gauge the opinions of highsec miners on ganking and bumping. You made the claim you provide the evidence.
The overwhelming majority of the random miners/haulers I have spoken with have expressed these sentiments. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21208
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:04:42 -
[616] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Feel free to launch the New Eden Pew Institute for Polling to gauge the opinions of highsec miners on ganking and bumping. You made the claim you provide the evidence. Another case of somebody else should do something, pretty much the norm for Veers. Which is kind of sad.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2849
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:06:55 -
[617] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Feel free to launch the New Eden Pew Institute for Polling to gauge the opinions of highsec miners on ganking and bumping. You made the claim you provide the evidence. Another case of somebody else should do something, pretty much the norm for Veers. Which is kind of sad.
He is literally a DS2 NPC.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:09:34 -
[618] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: The overwhelming majority of the random miners/haulers I have spoken with have expressed these sentiments.
The overwhelming majority of random highsec pubbies I have spoken to have expressed sentiments that you are wrong and forever will be wrong and never will ever be right in any situation ever. Do you now see why anecdotes are not evidence and that you must provide evidence to back up your claims for anyone to consider them seriously?
The difference is that mine actually happened and reinforces the logical and most likely conclusion. Yours is a) insulting ("pubbies") and b) made up. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8777
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:11:49 -
[619] - Quote
w theVeers Belvar wrote: Well Jenn, I delight in your despising me. Heck, if someone like you had ANY positive feeling for me, I would be unconcerned. That the people who play Eve solely to inflict misery on others despise me is something that I take great pride in, and would hope that it continues unabated indefinitely.
I only cause misery for selfish and insane people on forums. I spend my in game time killing even npc pirates.
But what you posted is important, because it shows how you see yourself as some kind of white knight. And yet you do nothing concrete for the people you claim to want to see protected. Folks like me teach people how to avoid the bad guys, how to WIN at EVE by being the kind of aware and responsible PVE player that jumps into the mosh pit with the ganekrs and scream "GAME ON" rather than doing what you do (run to the forums and beg CCP, run to the miner bumping site and talk crap their etc etc).
Again no different from real life, where the 'social justice warriors' spend all their time talking about and protesting 'injustice' while people like me actually risk things and DO something about such injustices.
Quote: And I completely disagree with your characterization of Eve. Once again you simply ignore any inconvenient facts to reach conclusions that just coincidentally match your pre-conceived notions.
For example - you ignore the existence of rookie systems and the strict griefing restrictions therein, you ignore the broad availability of PvE in highsec, you ignore the infallible CONCORD presence. Literally you ignore the existence of every game mechanic meant to bring a measure of security and safety to highsec, or meant to protect new players.
I don't ignore those things, i recognize their limits. Rookies system protection ends outside the rookie system Those other game mechanics DETER, not prevent unwanted pvp. it's up to the individual player to prevent bad things from happening, because EVE features universal non-consensual pvp.
Quote: CCP has already taken multiple steps to protect new players and create a measure of safety in highsec, all measures that I fully support. So perhaps it is you who is playing the wrong game and should look for something else?
You didn't answer the question. i know you won't because even you must understand what answering truthfully will mean for you basic beliefs .
But I'll ask it again anyways. If you hate so much of what EVE is and allows (and has always allowed), if you hate the gankers and the scammers who you think are chasing away good 'decent' folks, WHY are you here instead of being in one of the multitude of MMOs that doesn't allow the same things EVE does in the 1st place.
Rhetorical question I know, because everyone already knows the answer. I'd just like to see if you can be honest enough (with yourself) for a few seconds to admit it publicly.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21209
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:13:31 -
[620] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: The overwhelming majority of the random miners/haulers I have spoken with have expressed these sentiments.
The overwhelming majority of random highsec pubbies I have spoken to have expressed sentiments that you are wrong and forever will be wrong and never will ever be right in any situation ever. Do you now see why anecdotes are not evidence and that you must provide evidence to back up your claims for anyone to consider them seriously? The difference is that mine actually happened and reinforces the logical and most likely conclusion. Yours is a) insulting ("pubbies") and b) made up. La Nariz openly admits that his is just anecdote and therefore subject to doubt.
Without any evidence being presented your claim is as valid as that of La Nariz, maybe you should try holding yourself to the same standards you demand of others.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:17:03 -
[621] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
If you hate so much of what EVE is and allows (and has always allowed), if you hate the gankers and the scammers who you think are chasing away good 'decent' folks, WHY are you here instead of being in one of the multitude of MMOs that doesn't allow the same things EVE does in the 1st place.
Rhetorical question I know, because everyone already knows the answer. I'd just like to see if you can be honest enough (with yourself) for a few seconds to admit it publicly.
Because I like a lot of the PvE content, I like the market system, the fitting system, and I like a lot of the highsec PvE players, and even some of the nullsec PvP folks who don't take pleasure in inflicting misery on helpless PvE players in highsec. Eve has a lot of positives to offer, and the depth and richness here is truly not found anywhere else.
I also think that the people that I detest compromise a small fraction of those playing the game, and the good people far outnumber the bad people.
No other game offers me as good a package as this one, and I'm happy to be an advocate for positive change here, rather than give in to the bad people and run away to somewhere else.
Capice? |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:18:21 -
[622] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: The overwhelming majority of the random miners/haulers I have spoken with have expressed these sentiments.
The overwhelming majority of random highsec pubbies I have spoken to have expressed sentiments that you are wrong and forever will be wrong and never will ever be right in any situation ever. Do you now see why anecdotes are not evidence and that you must provide evidence to back up your claims for anyone to consider them seriously? The difference is that mine actually happened and reinforces the logical and most likely conclusion. Yours is a) insulting ("pubbies") and b) made up. La Nariz openly admits that his is just anecdote and therefore subject to doubt. Without any evidence being presented your claim is as valid as that of La Nariz, maybe you should try holding yourself to the same standards you demand of others. Or is that inconvenient because your claim is a fabrication and you're talking out of your arse as per normal?
Confirming that my claim is fabricated, as I have in fact never gone to highsec belts and asked miners/haulers what they think of the ganking and bumping mechanics. Also confirming that my overwhelmingly logical and indisputably true conclusion is fabricated. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
113
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:20:11 -
[623] - Quote
Lupe Meza wrote: It is a bizarre universe where missioners, miners and industrialists are at greater risk in high security space than "Highsec PvP'ers". I personally wouldn't mind CCP putting more weight into a persistent system where your actions have more consequence, especially those that result in sec loss, in space that is labeled as High Security. Pirates and criminals should be about as safe in High Sec as a carebear missioner is in low sec in my opinion. I'm talking gate and station lockout in high sec for any action that causes you to go supsect for the duration of the suspect timer to give the victim or third parties a chance to hunt the offender down, doubling the amount of tags required to improve sec status, and lowering the negative status required to be permanently engage-able in High Sec.
Outlaws already not only engage-able without penalty by anyone in highsec, but also have a omniscient NPC police force appear and destroy them if they stay in one place for any length of time severely limiting what activities they can participate in and what ships they can fly.
It would seem to me that outlaws are already much less safe in highsec than a positive security status player is in lowsec.
Your basic premise is wrong however - highsec missioners, miners and industrialists basically face no risk at all. Ganking is at an all time low according to CCP and the current mechanics are such that if you put any effort in at all, you are effectively safe from attack. There is no need for "more consequences" to discourage suicide ganking - if anything highsec ganking and other mechanics are due for some buffs to put some risk back into highsec.
But I will agree I would like to see some new mechanics to allow and even encourage PvE players to fight back or get revenge against gankers as this conflict is the essence of the game. The problem is of course figuring out a way to do that within the current game mechanics.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21212
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:22:50 -
[624] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Confirming that my claim is fabricated, as I have in fact never gone to highsec belts and asked miners/haulers what they think of the ganking and bumping mechanics. Also confirming that my overwhelmingly logical and indisputably true conclusion is fabricated. Finally, the truth.
Without evidence your claim is rightfully treated as a fabrication, I could claim to be the long lost cousin of Tsar Nicolas of pre revolution Russia, without evidence to back it up that claim will be derided, much like all of your claims.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:24:13 -
[625] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Confirming that my claim is fabricated, as I have in fact never gone to highsec belts and asked miners/haulers what they think of the ganking and bumping mechanics. Also confirming that my overwhelmingly logical and indisputably true conclusion is fabricated. Finally, the truth. Without evidence your claim is rightfully treated as a fabrication, I could claim to be the long lost cousin of Tsar Nicolas of pre revolution Russia, without evidence to back it up that claim will be derided, much like all of your claims.
Confirming that I also lack evidence that the world is round, that man has landed on the moon, that most people are pleased electricity was invented, and a host of other claims, so they should all be considered fabrications for now. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2854
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:27:43 -
[626] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Confirming that I also lack evidence that the world is round, that man has landed on the moon, that most people are pleased electricity was invented, and a host of other claims, so they should all be considered fabrications for now.
So we're back to hyperbole, back up your claims if you want them to be taken seriously. Otherwise you will be mocked and no one is going to believe a word you say kind of like how we treat dinsdale. However he is at least funny.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21213
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:28:13 -
[627] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Confirming that I also lack evidence that the world is round, that man has landed on the moon, that most people are pleased electricity was invented, and a host of other claims, so they should all be considered fabrications for now. The specified things are considered to be common knowledge, and there are vast quantities of readily and publicly available evidence that proves them to be factual and true, unlike any of your claims.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:28:16 -
[628] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The overwhelming majority of the random miners/haulers I have spoken with have expressed these sentiments.
Then they are playing the wrong game. EVE has never claimed to be a game for people who want anything easy and risk-free. Quoting CCP Falcon
CCP Falcon wrote:Okay, so what follows is entirely my personal opinion.
It's not a case of not "catering to the tearfilled entitled", it's a case of us staying true to the core of what EVE was built on.
Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.
Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.
While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you you're going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players who've had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that it's enough to make your head explode.
The entire design is based around being harsh, vicious, relentless, hostile and cold. It's about action and reaction, and the story that unfolds as you experience these two things.
True, we're working hard to lower the bar of entry so that more players can enjoy EVE and can get into the game. Our NPE (New Player Experience) is challenging, and we're trying to improve it to better prepare rookies for what lies out there, but when you start to play eve, you'll always start out as the little fish in the big pond.
The only way to grow is to voraciously consume what's around you, and its your choice whether that happens to be New Eden's abundant natural resources, or the other people who're also fighting their way to the top.
EVE is a playing experience like no other, where every action or reaction resonates through a single universe and is felt by players from all corners of the word. There are no shards here, no mirror universes, no instances and very few rules. If you stumble across something valuable, then chances are someone else already knows where you are, or is working their way toward you and you better be prepared to fight for what you've discovered.
EVE will test you from the outset, from the very second you undock and glimpse the stars, and will take pleasure from sorting those who can survive from those who'd rather curl up and perish.
EVE will let you fight until you collapse, then let you struggle to your feet, exhausted from the effort. Then when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel it'll kick you flat on your ass in the mud again and ask you why you deserve to be standing. It'll test you against every other individual playing at some point or another, and it'll ask for answers.
Give it an answer and maybe it'll let you up again, long enough to gather your thoughts. After a few more steps you're on the ground again and it's asking more questions.
EVE is designed to be harsh, it's designed to be challenging, and it's designed to be so deep and complex that it should fascinate and terrify you at the same time.
Corporation, Alliances and coalitions of tens of thousands have risen and fallen on these basic principles, and every one of those thousands of people has their own unique story to tell about how it affected them and what they experienced.
That's the beauty of EVE. Action and reaction. Emergence.
Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground you'll ever experience.
Veers - you are trying to turn EVE into a completely different game. People who think the way you do never were the target audience of EVE.
It is not, has never been, and never will be 'just a kinda cool space sim' |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
154
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 16:30:41 -
[629] - Quote
petre if i could give another like i would. thank u for clarifying things |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:03:39 -
[630] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:The overwhelming majority of the random miners/haulers I have spoken with have expressed these sentiments. Then they are playing the wrong game. EVE has never claimed to be a game for people who want anything easy and risk-free. Quoting CCP Falcon CCP Falcon wrote:Okay, so what follows is entirely my personal opinion.
It's not a case of not "catering to the tearfilled entitled", it's a case of us staying true to the core of what EVE was built on.
Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.
Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.
While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you you're going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players who've had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that it's enough to make your head explode.
The entire design is based around being harsh, vicious, relentless, hostile and cold. It's about action and reaction, and the story that unfolds as you experience these two things.
True, we're working hard to lower the bar of entry so that more players can enjoy EVE and can get into the game. Our NPE (New Player Experience) is challenging, and we're trying to improve it to better prepare rookies for what lies out there, but when you start to play eve, you'll always start out as the little fish in the big pond.
The only way to grow is to voraciously consume what's around you, and its your choice whether that happens to be New Eden's abundant natural resources, or the other people who're also fighting their way to the top.
EVE is a playing experience like no other, where every action or reaction resonates through a single universe and is felt by players from all corners of the word. There are no shards here, no mirror universes, no instances and very few rules. If you stumble across something valuable, then chances are someone else already knows where you are, or is working their way toward you and you better be prepared to fight for what you've discovered.
EVE will test you from the outset, from the very second you undock and glimpse the stars, and will take pleasure from sorting those who can survive from those who'd rather curl up and perish.
EVE will let you fight until you collapse, then let you struggle to your feet, exhausted from the effort. Then when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel it'll kick you flat on your ass in the mud again and ask you why you deserve to be standing. It'll test you against every other individual playing at some point or another, and it'll ask for answers.
Give it an answer and maybe it'll let you up again, long enough to gather your thoughts. After a few more steps you're on the ground again and it's asking more questions.
EVE is designed to be harsh, it's designed to be challenging, and it's designed to be so deep and complex that it should fascinate and terrify you at the same time.
Corporation, Alliances and coalitions of tens of thousands have risen and fallen on these basic principles, and every one of those thousands of people has their own unique story to tell about how it affected them and what they experienced.
That's the beauty of EVE. Action and reaction. Emergence.
Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground you'll ever experience. Veers - you are trying to turn EVE into a completely different game. People who think the way you do never were the target audience of EVE. It is not, has never been, and never will be 'just a kinda cool space sim'
I see nothing in the above inconsistent with harsher penalties on career criminals, or to support the idea of folks who pop pods every 15 minutes or gank freighters every 15 minutes. |
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:04:33 -
[631] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Confirming that I also lack evidence that the world is round, that man has landed on the moon, that most people are pleased electricity was invented, and a host of other claims, so they should all be considered fabrications for now. So we're back to hyperbole, back up your claims if you want them to be taken seriously. Otherwise you will be mocked and no one is going to believe a word you say kind of like how we treat dinsdale. However he is at least funny.
When the Goon propaganda machine stops mocking me and starts "taking me seriously" it's probably time to quit Eve and move on....because at that point I will have stopped saying the truth. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21215
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:12:28 -
[632] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:When the Goon propaganda machine stops mocking me and starts "taking me seriously" it's probably time to quit Eve and move on....because at that point I will have stopped saying the truth. To stop telling the truth you must first start telling the truth
TL;DR You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face with a wrecking ball.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:14:32 -
[633] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Confirming that I also lack evidence that the world is round, that man has landed on the moon, that most people are pleased electricity was invented, and a host of other claims, so they should all be considered fabrications for now. So we're back to hyperbole, back up your claims if you want them to be taken seriously. Otherwise you will be mocked and no one is going to believe a word you say kind of like how we treat dinsdale. However he is at least funny.
It's pretty laughable that you think the idea that highsec miners are unhappy with the ganking/bumping mechanics is a proposition that needs to be proven. Do you ever try actually talking to folks in highsec (the "pubbies" as you derisively call them)? |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:17:46 -
[634] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I see nothing in the above inconsistent with harsher penalties on career criminals, or to support the idea of folks who pop pods every 15 minutes or gank freighters every 15 minutes.
Did you even read it?
What part of
Quote:The entire design is based around being harsh, vicious, relentless, hostile and cold.
is hard for you to comprehend? |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
158
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:18:36 -
[635] - Quote
people only see what they want to see |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2856
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:21:54 -
[636] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Confirming that I also lack evidence that the world is round, that man has landed on the moon, that most people are pleased electricity was invented, and a host of other claims, so they should all be considered fabrications for now. So we're back to hyperbole, back up your claims if you want them to be taken seriously. Otherwise you will be mocked and no one is going to believe a word you say kind of like how we treat dinsdale. However he is at least funny. It's pretty laughable that you think the idea that highsec miners are unhappy with the ganking/bumping mechanics is a proposition that needs to be proven. Do you ever try actually talking to folks in highsec (the "pubbies" as you derisively call them)?
Of course as a recruiter it's my job to talk to pubbies so other goons don't have to, the sacrifices I make. Most of the highsec pubbies are blithely unaware of what is going on.
None of this removes your obligation of supporting your own claims; of which you have two:
-there is a silent majority in highesc that is unhappy with the status quo,
-you hold the same views they hold.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2860
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:23:59 -
[637] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:When the Goon propaganda machine stops mocking me and starts "taking me seriously" it's probably time to quit Eve and move on....because at that point I will have stopped saying the truth. To stop telling the truth you must first start telling the truth TL;DR You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face with a wrecking ball.
I'm not so certain that's the kind of ball he is after .
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:24:31 -
[638] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
Of course as a recruiter it's my job to talk to pubbies so other goons don't have to, the sacrifices I make. Most of the highsec pubbies are blithely unaware of what is going on.
None of this removes your obligation of supporting your own claims; of which you have two:
-there is a silent majority in highesc that is unhappy with the status quo,
-you hold the same views they hold.
I guess recruiter and scammer are now interchangeable words?
Both claims are hilariously obvious and true, and anyone can easily verify them by going and actually chatting with highsec miners.
But if you need even more evidence go read blogposts on minerbumping.com and see the response of folks to the CODE. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:26:19 -
[639] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:When the Goon propaganda machine stops mocking me and starts "taking me seriously" it's probably time to quit Eve and move on....because at that point I will have stopped saying the truth. To stop telling the truth you must first start telling the truth TL;DR You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face with a wrecking ball. I'm not so certain that's the kind of ball he is after .
Insinuations of homosexuality (and false ones I might add!)? The new Goon meta? |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2860
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:26:19 -
[640] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Of course as a recruiter it's my job to talk to pubbies so other goons don't have to, the sacrifices I make. Most of the highsec pubbies are blithely unaware of what is going on.
None of this removes your obligation of supporting your own claims; of which you have two:
-there is a silent majority in highesc that is unhappy with the status quo,
-you hold the same views they hold.
I guess recruiter and scammer are now interchangeable words? Both claims are hilariously obvious and true, and anyone can easily verify them by going and actually chatting with highsec miners. But if you need even more evidence go read blogposts on minerbumping.com and see the response of folks to the CODE.
If they are obviously true then you have no excuse for refusing to produce evidence of them.
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|
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:27:05 -
[641] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Of course as a recruiter it's my job to talk to pubbies so other goons don't have to, the sacrifices I make. Most of the highsec pubbies are blithely unaware of what is going on.
None of this removes your obligation of supporting your own claims; of which you have two:
-there is a silent majority in highesc that is unhappy with the status quo,
-you hold the same views they hold.
I guess recruiter and scammer are now interchangeable words? Both claims are hilariously obvious and true, and anyone can easily verify them by going and actually chatting with highsec miners. But if you need even more evidence go read blogposts on minerbumping.com and see the response of folks to the CODE. If they are obviously true then you have no excuse for refusing to produce evidence of them.
I have. Not every piece of evidence involves charts and graphs. Talking to people is also evidence. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1341
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:28:18 -
[642] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Of course as a recruiter it's my job to talk to pubbies so other goons don't have to, the sacrifices I make. Most of the highsec pubbies are blithely unaware of what is going on.
None of this removes your obligation of supporting your own claims; of which you have two:
-there is a silent majority in highesc that is unhappy with the status quo,
-you hold the same views they hold.
I guess recruiter and scammer are now interchangeable words? Both claims are hilariously obvious and true, and anyone can easily verify them by going and actually chatting with highsec miners. But if you need even more evidence go read blogposts on minerbumping.com and see the response of folks to the CODE.
La Nariz is not a scammer. Well at least he was not when I asked him how to join Goonwaffe. I didn't join because :reasons: but at the end of the exchange, I was left with a hoard of information and my asset list/wallet intact. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2860
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:29:50 -
[643] - Quote
@veers:
Then you should be able to produce a survey showing a significance. Yes facts and data are required to support your claims, no there isn't an easy way out, yes you and only you have to do the work, no I won't go get baltec1 for you.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2860
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:31:02 -
[644] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:When the Goon propaganda machine stops mocking me and starts "taking me seriously" it's probably time to quit Eve and move on....because at that point I will have stopped saying the truth. To stop telling the truth you must first start telling the truth TL;DR You wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face with a wrecking ball. I'm not so certain that's the kind of ball he is after . Insinuations of homosexuality (and false ones I might add!)? The new Goon meta?
Bigotry and hatred are not cool man.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8780
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:33:09 -
[645] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:@veers:
Then you should be able to produce a survey showing a significance. Yes facts and data are required to support your claims, no there isn't an easy way out, yes you and only you have to do the work, no I won't go get baltec1 for you.
You're asking for evidence from someone who isn't an evidence based thinker lol.
On a side note, it's typical of an discussion with high sec partisans. we can go back and look at any of those old thread naughts about high vs null and see the null side provide links and graphs and ccp videos and copy pasted dev posts and other forms of evidence while the high sec side would post "well, everyone I've talked to said" and nothing else.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:33:47 -
[646] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:
Bigotry and hatred are not cool man.
Ooooh....epic.
Accuse me of homosexuality, get called on it, respond that doing so is "bigotry and hatred."
It's not even a good troll. Try harder. This is really the best Goons can muster? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21216
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:34:37 -
[647] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Both claims are hilariously obvious and true, and anyone can easily verify them by going and actually chatting with highsec miners. If they can find one that's actually able to respond because they're not AFK
Quote:But if you need even more evidence go read blogposts on minerbumping.com and see the response of folks to the CODE. You mean all of those people who appear to have a problem distinguishing the difference between reality and fantasy and spew vitriol and threats of real life violence for acts carried out in a virtual world? They're hardly well adjusted individuals tbh.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:34:58 -
[648] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:La Nariz wrote:@veers:
Then you should be able to produce a survey showing a significance. Yes facts and data are required to support your claims, no there isn't an easy way out, yes you and only you have to do the work, no I won't go get baltec1 for you. You're asking for evidence from someone who isn't an evidence based thinker lol. On a side note, it's typical of an discussion with high sec partisans. we can go back and look at any of those old thread naughts about high vs null and see the null side provide links and graphs and ccp videos and copy pasted dev posts and other forms of evidence while the high sec side would post "well, everyone I've talked to said" and nothing else.
There exists no surveys or charts or what not on what highsec PvE players "think." Thankfully, since it is so obvious, it does not need to be proven. Anyone with a brain can figure it out. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2860
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:35:30 -
[649] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Bigotry and hatred are not cool man.
Ooooh....epic. Accuse me of homosexuality, get called on it, respond that doing so is "bigotry and hatred." It's not even a good troll. Try harder. This is really the best Goons can muster?
I didn't accuse you of anything I called you out for your homophobia.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:38:48 -
[650] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Bigotry and hatred are not cool man.
Ooooh....epic. Accuse me of homosexuality, get called on it, respond that doing so is "bigotry and hatred." It's not even a good troll. Try harder. This is really the best Goons can muster? I didn't accuse you of anything I called you out for your homophobia.
You accused me of having a mancrush on someone, and then questioned what type of "ball" I am after with a red embarrassed face. Pretty low stuff. Maybe try to show at least a shred of class here? |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21216
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:41:53 -
[651] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:There exists no surveys or charts or what not on what highsec PvE players "think." Thankfully, since it is so obvious, it does not need to be proven. Anyone with a brain can figure it out. Maybe you should start one, I'll even make it easy for you by providing the first response.
I'm a highsec PvE player and I think that the current highsec mechanics are fine because I takes precautions to protect myself from the actions of others who may play the game more aggressively that I do.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6266
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:45:15 -
[652] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Accuse me of homosexuality
stop typing verrs, for your own good.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:47:56 -
[653] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Accuse me of homosexuality
stop typing verrs, for your own good.
Hardly. Expecting at least a minimal level of decorum on the forums should not be too much to ask for. I don't think the supposed "dystopian" society of Eve extends to the forums. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2861
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:50:48 -
[654] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Bigotry and hatred are not cool man.
Ooooh....epic. Accuse me of homosexuality, get called on it, respond that doing so is "bigotry and hatred." It's not even a good troll. Try harder. This is really the best Goons can muster? I didn't accuse you of anything I called you out for your homophobia. You accused me of having a mancrush on someone, and then questioned what type of "ball" I am after with a red embarrassed face. Pretty low stuff. Maybe try to show at least a shred of class here?
I noted an observation I never accused you of anything. You are the one that got homophobic on all of us.
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Paranoid Loyd
2413
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:51:11 -
[655] - Quote
Tears Belvar everyone, Tears. He'll be here all week.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:53:30 -
[656] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:
Bigotry and hatred are not cool man.
Ooooh....epic. Accuse me of homosexuality, get called on it, respond that doing so is "bigotry and hatred." It's not even a good troll. Try harder. This is really the best Goons can muster? I didn't accuse you of anything I called you out for your homophobia. You accused me of having a mancrush on someone, and then questioned what type of "ball" I am after with a red embarrassed face. Pretty low stuff. Maybe try to show at least a shred of class here? I noted an observation I never accused you of anything. You are the one that got homophobic on all of us.
No you suggested that my sexual preference is homosexuality without a shred of evidence for it. Why you would do such a thing is beyond me. Is this the new Goon tactic to try and antagonize their opponents...suggest things about their personal preferences? Why not try to stick to substantive issues on the forums and avoid this kind of personal garbage? As a recruiter for a major alliance I expect a lot more from you - try to show at least a minimal level of class here. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6268
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 17:58:02 -
[657] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Accuse me of homosexuality
stop typing verrs, for your own good. Hardly. Expecting at least a minimal level of decorum on the forums should not be too much to ask for. I don't think the supposed "dystopian" society of Eve extends to the forums. completely missing the point there bucko.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2861
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:01:11 -
[658] - Quote
@veers:
Your repeated longing for Baltec1 was my evidence.
e: I don't care what pubbies think of us they don't hold any sort of power over us and thet harbor bigotry for us because they don't like our culture.
The worthy get to join the unworthy get to wail on the forums about us and be refused entrance.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:04:05 -
[659] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:@veers:
Your repeated longing for Baltec1 was my evidence.
That I said he is a better propagandist and has clearer talking points is in no conceivable way an indication of sexual preference.
Please in the future do try to avoid this kind of stupidity, it just adds more fuel to forums full of so much trolling and antagonism already. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6271
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:08:26 -
[660] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Please in the future do try to avoid this kind of stupidity, it just adds more fuel to forums full of so much trolling and antagonism already.
Please in the future do try to avoid this kind of stupidity, it just adds more fuel to forums full of so much trolling and antagonism already.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
80
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:11:25 -
[661] - Quote
Sheesh WTF is this place now....a deliberate attempt to derail so it gets locked?
Veers...be an adult like you claim you are and either 1.) Ignore the verbal assault aimed at you or 2.) Just shut up and walk away from this one....
The other guy...Really? its not funny dude...maybe at first....but its really not funny anymore. Come on im sure even a Goon has some class some where?
Now as to a survey idea I think mentioned pg 25.....
Heres another one for you Veers.
Highsec players especially miners need to man up and defend themselves, their neighbors, and if they want to be part of a corp then they need to SFTU and learn how that corp operates so they can learn how to be part of a group.
They also need to learn...in EvE...AFK/BOts/ISboxers/sissies/beggars/whiners deserve to be shot/ganked/dec'd/trolled and otherwise abused (within terms of the EULA of course) till they learn how to play or leave. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2861
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:16:04 -
[662] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:@veers:
Your repeated longing for Baltec1 was my evidence. That I said he is a better propagandist and has clearer talking points is in no conceivable way an indication of sexual preference. Please in the future do try to avoid this kind of stupidity, it just adds more fuel to forums full of so much trolling and antagonism already.
Ralph said it better than I can right now so read his post twice.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6274
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 18:27:49 -
[663] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Highsec players especially miners need to man up and defend themselves, their neighbors, and if they want to be part of a corp then they need to SFTU and learn how that corp operates so they can learn how to be part of a group.
They also need to learn...in EvE...AFK/BOts/ISboxers/sissies/beggars/whiners deserve to be shot/ganked/dec'd/trolled and otherwise abused (within terms of the EULA of course) till they learn how to play or leave. o7
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Nevil Oscillator
43
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 19:08:24 -
[664] - Quote
Too many pages to back track to what this thread was about, I'm sure it was on about getting better ways to execute gankers.
Another devious suggestion
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8787
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 20:57:55 -
[665] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
There exists no surveys or charts or what not on what highsec PvE players "think." Thankfully, since it is so obvious, it does not need to be proven. Anyone with a brain can figure it out.
The self serving bias here is too much. You are basically saying "There is no evidence so OF COURSE people must agree with me". It's like the very idea that you could be incorrect can't survive in the hostile environment of your mind for more than a microsecond lol.
If you can't prove it you can't know, why would any reasonable person hang the basis of their opinion on something they can't prove? Oops, I think I indented the reason in my own question lol.
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
159
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:06:59 -
[666] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Too many pages to back track to what this thread was about, I'm sure it was on about getting better ways to execute gankers.
Copy ralphs example
http://www.devilswarrior.info/kb/index.php/alliance_detail/643/
try something like that
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:15:44 -
[667] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
There exists no surveys or charts or what not on what highsec PvE players "think." Thankfully, since it is so obvious, it does not need to be proven. Anyone with a brain can figure it out.
The self serving bias here is too much. You are basically saying "There is no evidence so OF COURSE people must agree with me". It's like the very idea that you could be incorrect can't survive in the hostile environment of your mind for more than a microsecond lol. If you can't prove it you can't know, why would any reasonable person hang the basis of their opinion on something they can't prove? Oops, I think I indented the reason in my own question lol.
Because I actually go and talk to them, and the overwhelming sentiment is opposition to the bumping and ganking mechanics. When I raised this issue with the CODE folks they didn't disagree, they just called the miners "criminals."
But hey if in your idea of bizzaroland somehow the miners and haulers like being blown up, well good for you then. I think the reasonable people here who read the forums, talk to the PvE players, read minerbumping, and use common sense, realize that the highsec "carebear" population is not very pleased with the CODE ganking/bumping exploits. |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:23:36 -
[668] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Because I actually go and talk to them, and the overwhelming sentiment is opposition to the bumping and ganking mechanics. When I raised this issue with the CODE folks they didn't disagree, they just called the miners "criminals."
But hey if in your idea of bizzaroland somehow the miners and haulers like being blown up, well good for you then. I think the reasonable people here who read the forums, talk to the PvE players, read minerbumping, and use common sense, realize that the highsec "carebear" population is not very pleased with the CODE ganking/bumping exploits.
The fact that you are literally the only person in threads like this who feels that way is resounding evidence that you are wrong.
Veers - how much time do you spend telling those miners how to better tank their ships, how to use d-scan, how to stay pre-aligned to safe spots, how to find defense fleets? Since you care this much, I assume a pretty big chunk of your time is spent doing things like that. Right? |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:34:57 -
[669] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Because I actually go and talk to them, and the overwhelming sentiment is opposition to the bumping and ganking mechanics. When I raised this issue with the CODE folks they didn't disagree, they just called the miners "criminals."
But hey if in your idea of bizzaroland somehow the miners and haulers like being blown up, well good for you then. I think the reasonable people here who read the forums, talk to the PvE players, read minerbumping, and use common sense, realize that the highsec "carebear" population is not very pleased with the CODE ganking/bumping exploits. The fact that you are literally the only person in threads like this who feels that way is resounding evidence that you are wrong. Veers - how much time do you spend telling those miners how to better tank their ships, how to use d-scan, how to stay pre-aligned to safe spots, how to find defense fleets? Since you care this much, I assume a pretty big chunk of your time is spent doing things like that. Right?
Do you bother reading the threads by the miners who get ganked and then mocked by the PvP experts here? Go read through the forums.
Also, why would CCP make Skiffs so much tankier if no one had a problem with the number of miners getting ganked? |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:36:19 -
[670] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Do you bother reading the threads by the miners who get ganked and then mocked by the PvP experts here? Go read through the forums.
Do you bother to read a question before responding to it? If you are doing what I just said, you will never be ganked mining.
Let me ask again.
How much time do you spend telling those miners how to better tank their ships, how to use d-scan, how to stay pre-aligned to safe spots, how to find defense fleets? |
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
198
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:39:08 -
[671] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: Do you bother reading the threads by the miners who get ganked and then mocked by the PvP experts here? Go read through the forums.
Do you bother to read a question before responding to it? If you are doing what I just said, you will never be ganked mining. Let me ask again. How much time do you spend telling those miners how to better tank their ships, how to use d-scan, how to stay pre-aligned to safe spots, how to find defense fleets?
Personally I think mining is too boring to be done non-afk, so i assume these guys are afk 95% of the time. So none of those would help. |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:44:23 -
[672] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Personally I think mining is too boring to be done non-afk, so i assume these guys are afk 95% of the time. So none of those would help.
This is as if someone kept walking out into the street and getting hit by a car, your solution is to force all cars off the road, not teach the person to look both ways before stepping off the sidewalk.
To everyone else in this thread, send me a message with a confirmed Veers kill and I will pay 100 mil/corpse. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
199
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 21:48:44 -
[673] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Personally I think mining is too boring to be done non-afk, so i assume these guys are afk 95% of the time. So none of those would help. This is as if someone kept walking out into the street and getting hit by a car, your solution is to force all cars off the road, not teach the person to look both ways before stepping off the sidewalk. To everyone else in this thread, send me a message with a confirmed Veers kill and I will pay 100 mil/corpse.
If you would like I'd be happy to get someone to podkill an empty clone of mine and split the 100 mil.
As far as your analogy - if the same people kept intentionally going onto the sidewalk and hitting people with cars I would send them for extended jail sentences instead of blaming the victims. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21237
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 22:27:31 -
[674] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Do you bother reading the threads by the miners who get ganked and then mocked by the PvP experts here? Go read through the forums. You mean the threads where people tell them how to avoid being ganked via fitting their ships properly and not afk mining? The ones where the advice is met with scorn, because of its source, despite the validity of it?
Informing people how to avoid the predations of highsec gankers is not mockery, the mockery starts after the advice is ignored and scorned by people who are too damned lazy to make any effort at all to protect themselves.
Quote:Personally I think mining is too boring to be done non-afk, so i assume these guys are afk 95% of the time. So none of those would help. Yet you somehow magically get a response when you ask them how they feel about PvP in a PvP game
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 22:35:23 -
[675] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:As far as your analogy - if the same people kept intentionally going onto the sidewalk and hitting people with cars I would send them for extended jail sentences instead of blaming the victims.
...no...you are proposing the same thing as banning cars from the road because people walked into traffic without looking both ways.
The game is...."working as intended" (TM) |
Paranoid Loyd
2420
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 22:39:46 -
[676] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:To everyone else in this thread, send me a message with a confirmed Veers kill and I will pay 100 mil/corpse.
You're tardy to the party.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
161
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 22:50:41 -
[677] - Quote
LFMAO |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
199
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 22:52:36 -
[678] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:As far as your analogy - if the same people kept intentionally going onto the sidewalk and hitting people with cars I would send them for extended jail sentences instead of blaming the victims. ...no...you are proposing the same thing as banning cars from the road because people walked into traffic without looking both ways. The game is...."working as intended" (TM) I will gladly give you 100 mil/month to stop posting on the forums, Veers.
Right, because quietly mining in a belt and being killed by gankers who intentionally come over and kill you is the exact same thing as walking in the middle of the road.
And as compelling as your 100 mil a month is....I'll pass |
Paranoid Loyd
2423
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:04:42 -
[679] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Petre en Thielles wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:As far as your analogy - if the same people kept intentionally going onto the sidewalk and hitting people with cars I would send them for extended jail sentences instead of blaming the victims. ...no...you are proposing the same thing as banning cars from the road because people walked into traffic without looking both ways. The game is...."working as intended" (TM) I will gladly give you 100 mil/month to stop posting on the forums, Veers. Right, because quietly mining in a belt and being killed by gankers who intentionally come over and kill you is the exact same thing as walking in the middle of the road. And as compelling as your 100 mil a month is....I'll pass I rarely agree with Petre but it is an apt analogy.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
199
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:14:21 -
[680] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
And as compelling as your 100 mil a month is....I'll pass
I rarely agree with Petre but it is an apt analogy. [/quote]
Yes, the brilliant new analogy is now that mining in highsec is the same thing as walking in the middle of the street without looking.
I mean this is just crazy talk. |
|
Paranoid Loyd
2425
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:25:21 -
[681] - Quote
It's perfectly logical. The car has a role, it is to drive down the street. The person has a role, it is to walk across the street. If the person walks across the street without looking and gets hit by the car, is it the car's fault?
The miner has a role, it is to mine with the understanding this is a PVP game and undocking means you can be engaged at anytime. The ganker has a role, it is to kill miners. If the ganker kills the miner, is it the ganker's fault?
No, in both situations, the latter is properly filling their role while the former is not.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:35:38 -
[682] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: I rarely agree with Petre but it is an apt analogy.
I can't believe it, but I gave a +1 to Paranoid Loyd.
something is wrong here... |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
164
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:39:07 -
[683] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Yes, the brilliant new analogy is now that mining in highsec is the same thing as walking in the middle of the street without looking.
I mean this is just crazy talk.
Mining AFK is not paying attention while doing something.
Walking into the street without looking is the same thing |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
200
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:40:32 -
[684] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Yes, the brilliant new analogy is now that mining in highsec is the same thing as walking in the middle of the street without looking.
I mean this is just crazy talk. Mining AFK is not paying attention while doing something. Walking into the street without looking is the same thing
Mining AFK is like sitting in the park not paying attention. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
164
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:41:11 -
[685] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Mining AFK is like sitting in the park not paying attention.
in the park there are thugs... |
Paranoid Loyd
2425
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:41:56 -
[686] - Quote
In Happy Funtime land maybe, not in Eve.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
200
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:43:01 -
[687] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:In Happy Funtime land maybe, not in Eve.
confirming that ganking miners in highsec is no longer a criminal offense. |
Paranoid Loyd
2425
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:43:49 -
[688] - Quote
Who said that?
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
200
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:44:19 -
[689] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Mining AFK is like sitting in the park not paying attention. in the park there are thugs...
Precisely, there are thugs in the park, and I still don't pay attention. The expectation is that the police handle these matters and protect the public. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
164
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:44:28 -
[690] - Quote
i dont even |
|
Paranoid Loyd
2429
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:46:18 -
[691] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Mining AFK is like sitting in the park not paying attention. in the park there are thugs... Precisely, there are thugs in the park, and I still don't pay attention. The expectation is that the police handle these matters and protect the public.
Confirming if you are sitting on a bench in the park and a thug approaches you, you should not run away, you should wait for the police to come.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
164
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:46:50 -
[692] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Precisely, there are thugs in the park, and I still don't pay attention. The expectation is that the police handle these matters and protect the public.
ok so how much time will it take for the police to reach u if these guys try something? |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
65
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:49:11 -
[693] - Quote
Appearantly this thread needed another 130+ pages of squabbeling fishwives...
Good job folks
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
200
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:50:04 -
[694] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Mining AFK is like sitting in the park not paying attention. in the park there are thugs... Precisely, there are thugs in the park, and I still don't pay attention. The expectation is that the police handle these matters and protect the public. Confirming if you are sitting on a bench in the park and a thug approaches you, you should not run away, you should wait for the police to come.
Confirming that the same thug who has stolen 795 wallets through armed robbery in the last week and been arrested each time for it is still there to come up to you because the punishment consists of a 15 main detention and no restitution of property. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
164
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:50:16 -
[695] - Quote
Brochan McLeod wrote:Appearantly this thread needed another 130+ pages of squabbeling fishwives... Good job folks
im just trying to teach the guy something. but he doesnt want to see it.
your right though this has gotten boring. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21245
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:50:32 -
[696] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Precisely, there are thugs in the park, and I still don't pay attention. The expectation is that the police handle these matters and protect the public. ok so how much time will it take for the police to reach u if these guys try something? How close is the nearest doughnut shop?
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Skex Relbore
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
274
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:58:21 -
[697] - Quote
Thanks OP I needed a laugh,
The game has been around 10+ years, that's 10+ years of ganking scamming and general villainy. so why exactly do you think that's suddenly going to kill off the game.
This game isn't for everyone, you either learn to deal with it's peculiarities or you quit playing and find some game that will be more pleasing to you.
Personally what I like most about this game is that the lack of mechanics that force trust mean that the trust that does exist is real not fabricated.
Think about this, where I live I can fly around and know with near certitude who will be trying to kill me (awoxers not withstanding) I can make a fairly firm assumption that someone who's blue isn't going to do anything to my stuff, For anyone who's not blue I can make a fairly firm assumption that they are going to be trying to do something to my stuff, so if I think I have the upper hand I have no compulsion with shooting first or running as may be required. If they do get the better of me well that just the way the RNG rolls. If someone blue messes with me I know that if nothing else they've made themselves pariah to the most powerful force in null sec whether that bothers them or not.
The point is that EVE is a game where your choices have consequences in the game , you made a poor choice and anyone who's played this game for any length of time could have told you would not turn out well for you. You suffered the expected consequences for that choice. Then to further the reward to the person who blew your stuff up, you came here and cried about it which is like icing on their cake.
You are left with three choices, leave and find another activity more suited to your tender sensibilities, take this as a lesson and learn from it and learn how to figure out who you can and can't trust and to make more beneficial choices in the future, or you can continue the way you are going, If you choose the last option be certain to come here and make regular reports about all the awful things that happen to you and why the problem is with the game rather than yourself.
|
Paranoid Loyd
2431
|
Posted - 2014.10.28 23:59:58 -
[698] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Confirming that the same thug who has stolen 795 wallets through armed robbery in the last week and been arrested each time for it is still there to come up to you because the punishment consists of a 15 main detention and no restitution of property.
Fail, you can compare things to real life as long as you keep them separate from the game, this is still your problem Tears, you can't keep reality and fantasy separate. The rules are different.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
164
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:03:14 -
[699] - Quote
hes basically saying he wants gankers removed from the game as the police would do irl to a repeat offender.
your right its just a game. he cannot seem to diffrentiate between fantasy and reality and has some trouble with metaphors... this is not intended as a personal attack but rather an observation. |
J'mee Leggs
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
64
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:04:55 -
[700] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I'm still not as elite as.....wait for it.....RvB, lolz.
Ironically this is the only thing you've said in this thread that is true.
Veers Belvar wrote:Personally I think mining is too boring to be done non-afk, so i assume these guys are afk 95% of the time.
Assuming you are correct, surely then you can see how your claim to have spoken to enough of them to know how the majority of them feel about anything at all is...problematic. |
|
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:05:13 -
[701] - Quote
I now sincerely think Veers is a troll, and one of the best trolls these forums have seen in a long time.
+1 Veers, for amazing trolling. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21252
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:07:48 -
[702] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:hes basically saying he wants gankers removed from the game as the police would do irl to a repeat offender.
your right its just a game. he cannot seem to diffrentiate between fantasy and reality and has some trouble with metaphors... this is not intended as a personal attack but rather an observation. I wonder what his opinion of Grand Theft Auto multiplayer is?
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
165
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:10:25 -
[703] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I wonder what his opinion of Grand Theft Auto multiplayer is?
hahaha |
Nevil Oscillator
43
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:24:18 -
[704] - Quote
Keep them talking Veers, I'm nearly in range
Another devious suggestion
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
10375
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:27:42 -
[705] - Quote
This just gets funnier.
And to think, all of it can be so easily avoided, by choosing not be a prey animal. Of course accepting the consequences of their choice is too much to ask.
But then they are pathological narcissists after all, pretty sure most carebears are.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
87
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 00:40:04 -
[706] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Mining AFK is like sitting in the park not paying attention. in the park there are thugs... Precisely, there are thugs in the park, and I still don't pay attention. The expectation is that the police handle these matters and protect the public.
The police do handle it. When you get mugged, they investigate the crime after you get mugged. Just like concord. Your point?
Please troll better tiger. mmkay? |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:01:32 -
[707] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:
The police do handle it. When you get mugged, they investigate the crime after you get mugged. Just like concord. Your point?
Please troll better tiger. mmkay?
"trolling."
The police investigate, they catch the mugger, they make him pay restitution (and damages!), and then put him away for a nice jail sentence, especially if he is a repeat offender.
In Eve - they show up, blow up the attacker, give him a 15 minute timeout, don't make him pay any restitution, and make no attempt to recover the stolen property. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
167
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:03:52 -
[708] - Quote
but u get the rights to kill him |
Paranoid Loyd
2435
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:04:03 -
[709] - Quote
Fail, you can compare things to real life as long as you keep them separate from the game, this is still your problem Tears, you can't keep reality and fantasy separate. The rules are different.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:05:26 -
[710] - Quote
J'mee Leggs wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I'm still not as elite as.....wait for it.....RvB, lolz. Ironically this is the only thing you've said in this thread that is true. Veers Belvar wrote:Personally I think mining is too boring to be done non-afk, so i assume these guys are afk 95% of the time. Assuming you are correct, surely then you can see how your claim to have spoken to enough of them to know how the majority of them feel about anything at all is...problematic.
The fact that miners are usually AFK is of course not a reason why they can't be spoken to. If there are 20 miners in a system, and each needs to return to keyboard every 20 minutes to press F1, then as long as you hang out for 20 minutes you speak to all of them, and if perfectly distributed you could do 1 a minute.
But please, don't believe me - go out and try for yourself. Go through highsec, belt to belt, and try talking to miners. Not insulting them, threatening them, calling them names, etc... Try to have an honest conversation with as many as will respond to you, and gauge their support for CODE, ganking, bumping, etc...
Do some support these things? Sure. But I fervently believe that you will find, as I did, that many of the miners are unhappy with the current game structure, and have very negative feelings towards the gankers. They don't like at it like Hide and Go Seek, they look at it like a sociopathic turkey shoot. It's a game to one side of the equation, but not much fun to the other side. |
|
Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5798
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:09:50 -
[711] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Petre en Thielles wrote:
The police do handle it. When you get mugged, they investigate the crime after you get mugged. Just like concord. Your point?
Please troll better tiger. mmkay?
"trolling." The police investigate, they catch the mugger, they make him pay restitution (and damages!), and then put him away for a nice jail sentence, especially if he is a repeat offender. In Eve - they show up, blow up the attacker, give him a 15 minute timeout, don't make him pay any restitution, and make no attempt to recover the stolen property.
Concord were only ever intended as a limited deterrence. ie, if you commit a hostile act in high sec, you get blown up, unless you bribe concord (wardec) for the kills/fights. Your problem is, you don't see EVE for what it is meant to be, a player-driven PVP environment, and it is up to players to deal with their own restitution. You want your stuff back? Go get it yourself. That's what EVE is. If you don't like that, then EVE is not for you. That's the bottom line Veers. Concord = limited deterrence and punishment. In this player-driven game, if you're expecting anything more from Concord, or asking for it, then you're in the wrong game, because ultimately, CCP want Concord gone. How will you ever survive without them if you're relying on them to 'protect' you? You're entirely capable of making friends and protecting yourself. If you can't do that, it's your problem and again, you're playing the wrong game.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
10377
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:10:32 -
[712] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: The police investigate, they catch the mugger, they make him pay restitution (and damages!), and then put him away for a nice jail sentence, especially if he is a repeat offender.
Unless you're a politician, or a rockstar, or other celebrity.
And being a capsuleer is an order of magnitude above all of those things put together.
Jail time is for people who aren't demigods.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21263
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:11:35 -
[713] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The police investigate, they catch the mugger, they make him pay restitution (and damages!), and then put him away for a nice jail sentence, especially if he is a repeat offender.he appears in court and either gets off on a technicality, or gets a short /suspended sentence and a small fine, or community service and a small fine; any unclaimed stolen property is sold off at auction and goes into the pot for the works christmas party FTFY so that it a more accurate representation of most criminal justice systems.
Quote:In Eve - they show up, blow up the attacker, give him a 15 minute timeout, don't make him pay any restitution, and make no attempt to recover the stolen property. The difference is that the stolen property actually belongs to CCP, as stated in the EULA.
You as a player own diddly squat within the Eve universe, it is merely on loan from CCP, as long as it remains in the game CCP don't care how it changes hands.
Once again you're displaying that you can't differentiate between the real world and a fantasy one.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space
10377
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:13:42 -
[714] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: It's a game to one side of the equation, but not much fun to the other side.
Then they need to stop choosing to be a prey animal.
Stop mining, stop hauling, but above all else stop being afk. That's even worse, since it's being a dumb, blind, deaf prey animal. Yes, you might get eaten.
That's the choice you made.
If they aren't satisfied with the results of their choices, they might want to stop repeating the action that got them there.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Nevil Oscillator
43
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:25:00 -
[715] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Do some support these things? Sure. But I fervently believe that you will find, as I did, that many of the miners are unhappy with the current game structure, and have very negative feelings towards the gankers. They don't look at it like Hide and Go Seek, they look at it like a sociopathic turkey shoot. It's a game to one side of the equation, but not much fun to the other side.
Really ? where does all this happen ? all I see is two rats appear and zoom in a 2000m/s and when they get there they struggle to kill a mining drone let alone destroy my ship.
Another devious suggestion
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:31:30 -
[716] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Do some support these things? Sure. But I fervently believe that you will find, as I did, that many of the miners are unhappy with the current game structure, and have very negative feelings towards the gankers. They don't look at it like Hide and Go Seek, they look at it like a sociopathic turkey shoot. It's a game to one side of the equation, but not much fun to the other side.
Really ? where does all this happen ? all I see is two rats appear and zoom in a 2000m/s and when they get there they struggle to kill a mining drone let alone destroy my ship.
*scratches head* Did you think I was trying to say that miners find highsec belt rats to be too powerful? |
J'mee Leggs
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
67
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:33:50 -
[717] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Go through highsec, belt to belt, and try talking to miners.
No thanks, I'd rather play the game. Maybe you should try it some time. |
Nevil Oscillator
43
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:37:31 -
[718] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:[quote=Nevil Oscillator]
*scratches head* Did you think I was trying to say that miners find highsec belt rats to be too powerful?
No I just want to know what belts they prey on
Another devious suggestion
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21265
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 01:38:42 -
[719] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I fervently believe that you will find, as I did, that many of the miners are unhappy with the current game structure, and have very negative feelings towards the gankers. You yourself have admitted that you consider >90% of them to be afk. Have you miraculously found a way to communicate with afk miners, or are you talking out of your arse again?
Quote:They don't look at it like Hide and Go Seek, they look at it like a sociopathic turkey shoot. It's a game to one side of the equation, but not much fun to the other side. Maybe they should change the way they play the game to take into account the realities of Eve, simple things like fitting a tank, checking local for players with low sec status or criminal flags, or god forbid, actually being at the bloody keyboard.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
634
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 03:24:51 -
[720] - Quote
re: Polling highsec miners about ganking. "Excuse me mister Rabbit, could you spare a moment to share with me your feelings about Foxes?"
Of course the answers you get from those who are actually at the keys are predictable.
Of course the mice are in favor of belling the cat.
However, CCP is under no obligation to either put the bell on, or provide said bell. |
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 03:51:54 -
[721] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:re: Polling highsec miners about ganking. "Excuse me mister Rabbit, could you spare a moment to share with me your feelings about Foxes?"
Of course the answers you get from those who are actually at the keys are predictable.
Of course the mice are in favor of belling the cat.
However, CCP is under no obligation to either put the bell on, or provide said bell.
Also, you should keep in mind that taking it upon yourself to champion those who cannot be bothered to defend themselves is not the same as championing the defenseless. No amount of verbal gymnastics is going to change that.
I suggest taking a step back and taking a good look at what's going on here. Yours is the only voice crying out in this thread against these perceived injustices. You are trying to defend an indefensible position. It is madness.
Well I'm glad you agree with me on what the miners would say. Now if only you could convince your allies of the same, there seems to be no end to the number of irrational posts asking me to "prove" this. I commend you for at least having the competent to see the obvious truth here.
The reality is that due to the AFK nature of mining, and the type of people who do it, they will never be able to defend themselves. No ifs ands or buts about it. As for the tenor of the posters here, the "carebear" posters tend to mocked, ridiculed, wardecced, hunted down in game, and eventually driven out of it entirely. I have spoken with multiple folks who have had those experiences when speaking up for "carebears," which is why you don't see em here. Thankfully I'm not someone who can be bullied like that. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2898
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 03:58:42 -
[722] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Well I'm glad you agree with me on what the miners would say. Now if only you could convince your allies of the same, there seems to be no end to the number of irrational posts asking me to "prove" this. I commend you for at least having the competent to see the obvious truth here.
The reality is that due to the AFK nature of mining, and the type of people who do it, they will never be able to defend themselves. No ifs ands or buts about it. As for the tenor of the posters here, the "carebear" posters tend to mocked, ridiculed, wardecced, hunted down in game, and eventually driven out of it entirely. I have spoken with multiple folks who have had those experiences when speaking up for "carebears," which is why you don't see em here. Thankfully I'm not someone who can be bullied like that.
The entitlement dripping from this post is nauseating.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 04:04:50 -
[723] - Quote
* passes the bucket
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
636
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 04:21:13 -
[724] - Quote
Mining is not by nature AFK. Stop that wrong minded thinking right now. People CHOOSE to mine AFK. In doing so they CHOOSE not to defend themselves. The reason you are speaking alone is not because others are too afraid to back you up, it's because you are wrong. I used to PVE exclusively, including mining and mission running. I have since changed my playstyle. Other PVE'rs have also chimed in to explain to you the magnitude of the wrong that you are bringing to the table here as well. There is nothing, nothing at all wrong with embracing a PVE playstyle in this game, so long as you do not lose touch with the pvp-centric nature of the game itself. Deliberately engaging in AFK activities while in game pretty much forfeits any right to complain about bad things happening as a result. Those who become 'victims' as a result of this have nobody to blame but themselves. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 05:14:33 -
[725] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mining is not by nature AFK. Stop that wrong minded thinking right now.
Sorry, I was laughing too hard after reading this to continue. The effortless activity that requires no more than returning every 20 minutes to press F1 is not by nature AFK? Ok then, I guess we must have different definitions of "nature." |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
639
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 05:37:29 -
[726] - Quote
I don't think you understand how to mine properly. Lemme break it down for you. You start at a point near the belt that has a direct clear path to the station you eventually dock at, or a chosen safe spot in space. You then align to said point after scanning a series of juicy rocks that you want to badtouch. Target the nearest few and commence with the noms. Meanwhile, you open up your D-scan and set it to 360 with a distance of around oh, say 1AU or so... or just under the distance to the nearest station or belt. As rocks start to pass out of range of your lasers you switch to new roids further ahead... there's no need to fully deplete them to get what you need. Watch local, scoop ore, hit D-scan. If someone dubious shows up in system you start hovering near the 'warp' button. If something that's not a fellow miner shows up on D-scan you start warping immediately. If a fellow miner shows up in belt and then starts to act oddly in ANY fashion, you warp away.
In doing this I've never been ganked, but have had a few try. Mining by hitting F1 and coming back in 20 minutes is simply put, idiotic, and asking for suffering.
There. Now you know how to mine, for free no less. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1568
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 05:43:11 -
[727] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mining is not by nature AFK. Stop that wrong minded thinking right now.
Sorry, I was laughing too hard after reading this to continue. The effortless activity that requires no more than returning every 20 minutes to press F1 is not by nature AFK? Ok then, I guess we must have different definitions of "nature." I'd like to hear your mining experience. Apparently you know something the rest of us don't. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 05:58:51 -
[728] - Quote
The New Player Experience is bloody awful.
Resident Newbie at: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
|
Nevil Oscillator
43
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 10:19:01 -
[729] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Mining is not by nature AFK. Stop that wrong minded thinking right now.
Sorry, I was laughing too hard after reading this to continue. The effortless activity that requires no more than returning every 20 minutes to press F1 is not by nature AFK? Ok then, I guess we must have different definitions of "nature."
Does reading this count as AFK ?
Another devious suggestion
|
Satan's Spawn
Satan's Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 11:52:05 -
[730] - Quote
what's wrong? ... the recent production re-design.
Over graphiced, over complicated (as in too many steps n click, not that it's too difficult), and thus I get bored/fustrated/lethargic halfway through. Aside from an accruate managable business model is 'urgh' ... bring back the old way. Much more like real life economics. |
|
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
872
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 13:00:57 -
[731] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:This all seems to continually converge upon not getting emotionally invested in video games. Then I have great news for you. It would seem that more and more people are becoming less emotionally invested in Eve Online. Indeed a cause for celebration.
Successfully doinitwrongGäó since 2006.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21274
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 13:10:18 -
[732] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:The New Player Experience is bloody awful. If you think the NPE is awful now you should have tried it when it consisted of "here's a ship, there's an NPC, try not to die too quickly" or as it was otherwise known "here's a Rubik cube, go forth and perform an unlikely sexual act on yourself"
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2899
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 13:16:31 -
[733] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:La Nariz wrote:This all seems to continually converge upon not getting emotionally invested in video games. Then I have great news for you. It would seem that more and more people are becoming less emotionally invested in Eve Online. Indeed a cause for celebration.
There is another thread for idiotic EVE is dieing rants npc alt.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21274
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 13:27:50 -
[734] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I don't think you understand how to mine properly. Lemme break it down for you. You start at a point near the belt that has a direct clear path to the station you eventually dock at, or a chosen safe spot in space. You then align to said point after scanning a series of juicy rocks that you want to badtouch. Target the nearest few and commence with the noms. Meanwhile, you open up your D-scan and set it to 360 with a distance of around oh, say 1AU or so... or just under the distance to the nearest station or belt. As rocks start to pass out of range of your lasers you switch to new roids further ahead... there's no need to fully deplete them to get what you need. Watch local, scoop ore, hit D-scan. If someone dubious shows up in system you start hovering near the 'warp' button. If something that's not a fellow miner shows up on D-scan you start warping immediately. If a fellow miner shows up in belt and then starts to act oddly in ANY fashion, you warp away.
In doing this I've never been ganked, but have had a few try. Mining by hitting F1 and coming back in 20 minutes is simply put, idiotic, and asking for suffering.
There. Now you know how to mine, for free no less.
Edit: To be fair this model is for solo mining. It gets more sophisticated once you start working with an orca, other miners, haulers, and an active guard on duty. Pretty much this, however it involves entirely too much effort for some. It's far easier to park on the warp in point, hit F1 and go back to watching faptupe, reading a book or just walking away to do something else, then moan on the forums when you get ganked.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
205
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:10:41 -
[735] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:
What on earth makes you think the depressing was waning by the late 30s?
And the spending jolt that started to improve GDP happened around 1939 in America, when we started production to PREPARE for going to war, making your "removing millions of unemployable young men" argument somewhat worthless.
Preparing to go to war, similar to preparing to lose ships in high-sec.
Now take it one step further. What would happen to CCP's CURRENT customer base (ie, the people they have profited off of for over a decade) if they decided to dilute their brand in the way you describe?
You also need to take this another step further. Ignoring "irrational loyalty" as you so incorrectly put it, certain brands signify a level of quality and a level of service. Why would you ask CCP to destroy that level and type of service by changing the fundamental basic principle that EVE was founded on?
Have you honestly given this any thought? Are you a college kid who just picked up his first marketing/economics textbooks and wanted to start copying and pasting them in here?
Veers argument is the same as "Lets call Volkswagens, Audis, Bugattis, Bentlys, etc.. the same thing and assume no customers will leave or be unhappy!"
And my reply is the same it has always been "so young, so naive"
Oh nonsense. America didn't go onto war footing until after Pearl Harbor. You can check the GDP growth numbers in the 30s to see the recovery in action.
Whatever, this economics talk is boring and has no bearing on the game. Next topic.
As far as branding....I would say 70+ % of the playerbase lives in highsec, and they overwhelmingly oppose the suicide ganking which is done by 1-2% of the playerbase, if that. The Eve brand is not built around blowing up new players in highsec through the actions of career criminals. Restricting that, much like cracking down on real life harassment or the like would not hurt Eve's brand - rather it would burnish it.
And while young at heart, I do confess to having an advanced degree a some years of work experience...so better find a new line of attack.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2907
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:17:32 -
[736] - Quote
Other than it making financial sense to nerf highsec.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1308
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:24:38 -
[737] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Petre en Thielles wrote:
What on earth makes you think the depressing was waning by the late 30s?
And the spending jolt that started to improve GDP happened around 1939 in America, when we started production to PREPARE for going to war, making your "removing millions of unemployable young men" argument somewhat worthless.
Preparing to go to war, similar to preparing to lose ships in high-sec.
Now take it one step further. What would happen to CCP's CURRENT customer base (ie, the people they have profited off of for over a decade) if they decided to dilute their brand in the way you describe?
You also need to take this another step further. Ignoring "irrational loyalty" as you so incorrectly put it, certain brands signify a level of quality and a level of service. Why would you ask CCP to destroy that level and type of service by changing the fundamental basic principle that EVE was founded on?
Have you honestly given this any thought? Are you a college kid who just picked up his first marketing/economics textbooks and wanted to start copying and pasting them in here?
Veers argument is the same as "Lets call Volkswagens, Audis, Bugattis, Bentlys, etc.. the same thing and assume no customers will leave or be unhappy!"
And my reply is the same it has always been "so young, so naive"
Oh nonsense. America didn't go onto war footing until after Pearl Harbor. You can check the GDP growth numbers in the 30s to see the recovery in action. Whatever, this economics talk is boring and has no bearing on the game. Next topic. As far as branding....I would say 70+ % of the playerbase lives in highsec, and they overwhelmingly oppose the suicide ganking which is done by 1-2% of the playerbase, if that. The Eve brand is not built around blowing up new players in highsec through the actions of career criminals. Restricting that, much like cracking down on real life harassment or the like would not hurt Eve's brand - rather it would burnish it. And while young at heart, I do confess to having an advanced degree a some years of work experience...so better find a new line of attack.
What does any of this have to do with a video game???
Despite the slogan "Eve is real" it is NOT... If you think Eve has anything to do with or is related to real life... GET HELP!!!
|
Hiasa Kite
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
34
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:37:12 -
[738] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:As far as branding....I would say 70+ % of the playerbase lives in highsec Source? |
Nevil Oscillator
44
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:39:33 -
[739] - Quote
You can tell that this thread has no grounds by the fact it would be locked if you pointed out something that actually is wrong with Eve
So your saying that isn't a graphics related issue ?
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:46:33 -
[740] - Quote
IIshira wrote: What does any of this have to do with a video game???
I think one of them is trying to push forward the notion that the destruction by the conflict itself is essential for economic growth during war and in eve.
Which is in itself a far stretch considering that war effort is planned well in forward, funded by potentially unlimited sources instead of true economic growth (bonds or more simply drafting the workforce) and the destruction of the results of human labor can be achieved by arbitrary means (1984 and floating fortresses so long in production they are obsolete when they leave the dry dock come to mind). |
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 18:48:41 -
[741] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Oh nonsense. America didn't go onto war footing until after Pearl Harbor. False, the US started preparing for war in around 1937 when they started to produce battleships again. In 1940 FDR authorised the doubling in size of the Navy, he also authorised the lend-lease program in the same year which commenced in March 1941 as well as the draft, in July 1941 the US occupied Iceland, freeing up British forces for action elsewhere; all of which are prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.
Quote:I would say 70+ % of the playerbase lives in highsec That's characters, not players, you'll also find that a lot of nullsec players have highsec alts because highsec is where the markets are, and up until recently was the goto place for industry.
Quote:they overwhelmingly oppose the suicide ganking Citation/evidence needed, without them that is speculation on your part.
Quote:The Eve brand is not built around blowing up new players in highsec through the actions of career criminals. You're kind of correct, the brand isn't built around the blowing up of new players in highsec, what it is built around is it being a harsh dark and dystopian universe, with mainly player driven content, huge battles that hit the headlines of mainstream media etc. Getting blown up in highsec and career criminals are part of that.
Quote:Restricting that, much like cracking down on real life harassment or the like would not hurt Eve's brand - rather it would burnish it. And while young at heart, I do confess to having an advanced degree a some years of work experience...so better find a new line of attack. While I agree on the cracking down of real life harrasment, you're wrong about restricting highsec PvP not hurting the Eve brand. It's not a game where you get mollycoddled by the Devs, which is why many of us play it.
As for your final statement, your actions on the forums suggests otherwise, I think you're embellishing the truth in an attempt to aggrandize yourself, and failing miserably.
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1308
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 19:00:52 -
[742] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:IIshira wrote: What does any of this have to do with a video game???
I think one of them is trying to push forward the notion that the destruction by the conflict itself is essential for economic growth during war and in eve. Which is in itself a far stretch considering that war effort is planned well in forward, funded by potentially unlimited sources instead of true economic growth (bonds or more simply drafting the workforce) and the destruction of the results of human labor can be achieved by arbitrary means (1984 and floating fortresses so long in production they are obsolete when they leave the dry dock come to mind).
I understand that but this is a video game. The examples are real life. People that compare gankers in the game to ISIS terrorists that behead people and other in game fights to real battles where thousands of REAL people died are so far out of touch from reality. What's next.. PTSD from playing an MMO? |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
205
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 19:03:19 -
[743] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Barton Breau wrote:IIshira wrote: What does any of this have to do with a video game???
I think one of them is trying to push forward the notion that the destruction by the conflict itself is essential for economic growth during war and in eve. Which is in itself a far stretch considering that war effort is planned well in forward, funded by potentially unlimited sources instead of true economic growth (bonds or more simply drafting the workforce) and the destruction of the results of human labor can be achieved by arbitrary means (1984 and floating fortresses so long in production they are obsolete when they leave the dry dock come to mind). I understand that but this is a video game. The examples are real life. People that compare gankers in the game to ISIS terrorists that behead people and other in game fights to real battles where thousands of REAL people died are so far out of touch from reality. What's next.. PTSD from playing an MMO?
PTSD not so far fetched....think of some of the null hellcamp victims. |
Nevil Oscillator
44
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 19:08:59 -
[744] - Quote
This Month I will mostly be going Loco in Lowsec
So your saying that isn't a graphics related issue ?
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21290
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 19:11:44 -
[745] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:This Month I will mostly be going Loco in Lowsec Loco on a POCO
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 22:19:39 -
[746] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:IIshira wrote:
I understand that but this is a video game. The examples are real life. People that compare gankers in the game to ISIS terrorists that behead people and other in game fights to real battles where thousands of REAL people died are so far out of touch from reality. What's next.. PTSD from playing an MMO?
PTSD not so far fetched....think of some of the null hellcamp victims.
Drawing paralels if one discusses a subject is not uncommon, while i would not call gate campers terrorists, not everything can be just waved away with "it is not real".
Imagine CCP having a metldown and trying that argument upon loosing all your account data :) |
Nevil Oscillator
44
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 22:30:26 -
[747] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:
Drawing paralels if one discusses a subject is not uncommon, while i would not call gate campers terrorists, not everything can be just waved away with "it is not real".
Imagine CCP having a metldown and trying that argument upon loosing all your account data :)
What ? Terrorists did it ? I can't say it would surprise me, seems to be the excuse everyone uses these days
So your saying that isn't a graphics related issue ?
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.10.29 22:52:37 -
[748] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Barton Breau wrote:
Drawing paralels if one discusses a subject is not uncommon, while i would not call gate campers terrorists, not everything can be just waved away with "it is not real".
Imagine CCP having a metldown and trying that argument upon loosing all your account data :)
What ? Terrorists did it ? I can't say it would surprise me, seems to be the excuse everyone uses these days
No, "it's not real", but yours would probably work better :) |
Nevil Oscillator
44
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 01:15:16 -
[749] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:
No, "it's not real", but yours would probably work better :)
Eve clearly isn't designed to be a prediction of the future based on probability, it is purposefully designed the way it is. The appeal of just living normal life in that Universe is probably there more by accident than pirating is. Eve characters are very detached having little if anything of a background compared to what a real person has, there is an appeal of being someone different, an alter ego that does all the bad things or heroic character, perhaps you grow out of that, I wouldn't like to say. It is possible for players to collectively frown upon some behaviour but characters don't really connect with society the way real people do to a large extent, it won't be very effective. I think economic reasons might provide some recourse because someone somewhere wants those mining ships to keep supplying them
or they don't.
So your saying that isn't a graphics related issue ?
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Desimus Maximus
Embargo.
127
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 08:02:20 -
[750] - Quote
The Mittani.
Shadoo.
BRAVE.
nuff said. |
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
115
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 09:35:44 -
[751] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I don't think you are getting it. My point is that the highsec ganking economy has a minimal impact on global gameplay. Therefore tweaks to it, or removing it entirely, would not materially affect the game or its "brand."
Yes it would becuase as u said the influx of cheap commodities would drive the isk price of plex up. so people who plex thier accounts will no longer be able to play becuase they will not make enough isk per month any more for that to be viable. Those poeple who do that are probably at thier computers playing the game trying hard to earn that isk. but your in support of people who are AFK not really playing the game and whose activities are making playing the game unviable for people who use isk to plex thier accounts. is that corrrect? Miscommunication. THIS IS HAPPENING ALREADY. Plex prices are already shooting up, and everything else is deflating. All suicide ganking is doing is hurting and driving off the new/casual players. As far as the isboxers/isbotters are concerned it's just a minor cost of doing business. In fact, CODE has essentially given up on ganking miners because they realize that they have no hope of actually curtailing mining....now they are focused on haulers and incursion runners, though in both cases they will once again hit the casual players while not impeding the boxers/botters.
Mr. Belvar is on to something, although his prescription would be fatal to Eve. There is currently a serious imbalance in the risk vs. reward balance in highsec. Miners, haulers, and mission/incursion runners are able to operate with practically no risk, and print ISK/gather resources with the same or even higher income that equivalent activities in non-highsec. CCP has indicated that ganking is at an all time low despite the best efforts of groups like the New Order to bring some risk back into highsec. Highsec is plagued by AFK and multiboxing mining fleets, serial mission runners, AFK haulers all which operate under the free and absolute protection that CONCORD provide, effectively shunting the risk vs. reward original design of the game.
How can this be fixed? Changing either parameter is an option. Reducing reward would be one way. Dramatically reduce the amount of ore available (or only allow Venture mining) or introduce a new tier with a less valuable use, slashing the payout or remove L4 missions and incursions from highsec and the like would be options. This would force people to move out of highsec if they want to maintain their income and assume the risk that comes with this. Of course, many players might also decide to just quit, but if they truly just liked mining or missioning, they could keep at it with reduced rewards. After all, if they are not taking much risk, why do they even need a significant income? They would have their desired safe space and it would have little impact on the overall economy of Eve.
Alternatively, highsec can be made more dynamic through the addition of risk. Things like making CONCORD response time a little longer and more variable, changing wardecs to no longer be so easily dodged like they were before, perhaps removing CONCORD completely from incursion systems, add some dangerous NPCs that spawn infrequently but are deadly to AFK players. Basically anything to encourage conflict and make it impossible to be 100% safe (99% safe is ok). A player who actively takes all precautions should be near 100% safe, but players who autopilot blockade runners or AFK-run Skiff fleets should be much less safe. This option will cause the truly risk-adverse to quit as there will no longer be anywhere safe, but I think it is the better option to make Eve the game it was designed to be.
Eve is a competitive single-universe game. Player who are able to generate ISK or mine ore with no risk distort the economy and end up staying/returning to highsec, and this serves as positive feedback to make highsec the most important income-generating region of the game because more players are there. If highsec was left as is profit-wise, but all risk removed like Mr. Belvar and the other carebears wish, the economy would collapse in months as no significant amount of ships would be lost and ore and ISK would keep appearing in the game. Botters, AFKers and multiboxers would flood into highsec even more, and the importance of the space outside highsec would be diminished even further.
Increasing risk is my preferred option as it disincentivizes lazy and multibox play, but the economy could be stabilized by decreasing rewards and making highsec more of a "kiddie pool" where resource-neutral activities like trading and industry (the building part anyway) can go on, and new players can splash around in relative safety but with little reward, so as to not distort the greater Eve economy by the generation of resources/ISK risk-free.
Maybe the best solution is somewhere in the middle, but something needs to be done as this current imbalance in risk vs. reward is already having noticeable effects which will only intensify unless something changes.
TL;DR: In simplest terms the biggest problem of Eve is the imbalance of risk vs. reward in high security space.
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
192
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 09:48:56 -
[752] - Quote
some nice ideas and good reasoning +1.
i like the one about spawning a dangerous rat every so often that miners will have to run from. this will reduce afk mining and make it a bit more dangerous. The miners would have actually pay attention as they should be doing.
I for one also support the idea of a concord response to awoxing. I should be able to trust my corpmates... |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
115
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 10:59:36 -
[753] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:some nice ideas and good reasoning +1.
i like the one about spawning a dangerous rat every so often that miners will have to run from. this will reduce afk mining and make it a bit more dangerous. The miners would have actually pay attention as they should be doing.
I for one also support the idea of a concord response to awoxing. I should be able to trust my corpmates...
I think awoxing has driven much conflict and generated much content/stories, but I would agree that there are other ways to bring down a corporation from the inside then just blowing up your corp mates. If this is actually the first part of some effort to get people out of NPC corps and into meaningful, persistent player corps that will be able to be wardecced, then I am all for the change. If it is just pandering to the risk-adverse with no greater plan in mind, then all you have done is reduced the avenues of non-consensual PvP (i.e. risk) in highsec to just the current neutered version of wardeccing and suicide ganking, with no benefit to show.
Couple it with some nerfs on NPC corp income (increased tax, ban on running L4's/incursions, or mining in anything other than a Venture while in an NPC corp), and limitations on corp jumping to shed wardecs, then it will serve to generate more conflict by getting players into corps and encouraging group PvP play. Otherwise, removing awoxing will just result in less ships exploding and the economic problems will be even worse.
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
192
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 11:03:39 -
[754] - Quote
but its only a concord response, its not a total ban on awoxing. so it is still possible however 2 ships will be lost instead of 1. |
MiA Jamus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 11:14:58 -
[755] - Quote
/tears
Love it. |
Westmarch
28
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 11:33:40 -
[756] - Quote
You joined EVE. Trust No one. KILL EVERYTHING. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2913
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 12:17:49 -
[757] - Quote
Enable awoxing for NPC corporations only, and make CONCORD not respond to violence against <10 man corporations. All of EVE' problems solved in two changes.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
115
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 12:32:35 -
[758] - Quote
Bastion Arzi wrote:but its only a concord response, its not a total ban on awoxing. so it is still possible however 2 ships will be lost instead of 1. I don't understand your point. If CCP removes awoxing, that is the legal ability to shoot corp mates in highsec, by adding a CONCORD response (although the exact change is probably still under discussion), then shooting a corp mate is exactly the same as suicide ganking. This will severely limit the types of ships that can be destroyed by an awoxer before CONCORD arrives, and makes the whole endeavour (sneaking into a corp to damage it) moot as the attacker will loose their ship exactly the same way as if they did not join the corp in the first place. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
206
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 13:54:06 -
[759] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Enable awoxing for NPC corporations only, and make CONCORD not respond to violence against <10 man corporations. All of EVE' problems solved in two changes.
Oh yes because nothing would be better for Eve than the creation of 10 man alt corps or forcing everyone into the blue donut. The playerbase has spoken - their response to awoxxing is to stay in NPC corps...they don't like the mechanic. That is what is motivating CCP, not the fact that awoxxing is claiming victims, but the fact that highsecers are responding en masse by just avoiding the entire corporation system because of it. |
Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:05:10 -
[760] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Enable awoxing for NPC corporations only, and make CONCORD not respond to violence against <10 man corporations. All of EVE' problems solved in two changes. Oh yes because nothing would be better for Eve than the creation of 10 man alt corps or forcing everyone into the blue donut. The playerbase has spoken - their response to awoxxing is to stay in NPC corps...they don't like the mechanic. That is what is motivating CCP, not the fact that awoxxing is claiming victims, but the fact that highsecers are responding en masse by just avoiding the entire corporation system because of it.
Uh... At that point, there's nothing inherently wrong with the system. The problem lies with the players. Everything, for the most part, in Eve has a risk associated with it. The risk associated with the Corporation system isn't "too high", the players are just too scared to take the risk. That doesn't justify changing it. In fact, it's empirical evidence that your players are crybabies.
Just because people cry about it doesn't make it a good reason. |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
207
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:09:36 -
[761] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Enable awoxing for NPC corporations only, and make CONCORD not respond to violence against <10 man corporations. All of EVE' problems solved in two changes. Oh yes because nothing would be better for Eve than the creation of 10 man alt corps or forcing everyone into the blue donut. The playerbase has spoken - their response to awoxxing is to stay in NPC corps...they don't like the mechanic. That is what is motivating CCP, not the fact that awoxxing is claiming victims, but the fact that highsecers are responding en masse by just avoiding the entire corporation system because of it. Uh... At that point, there's nothing inherently wrong with the system. The problem lies with the players. Everything, for the most part, in Eve has a risk associated with it. The risk associated with the Corporation system isn't "too high", the players are just too scared to take the risk. That doesn't justify changing it. In fact, it's empirical evidence that your players are crybabies. Just because people cry about it doesn't make it a good reason.
True enough. What worries CCP is that solo mission runners who avoid the corp system and stick with solo play are less likely to remain paying accounts. They feel (probably correctly) that getting more people involved in the social fabric of Eve will lead to a higher retention rate and a broader subscriber base. So to the extent players are responding to current game mechanics by engaging in corpless solo play, CCP has an interest in adjusting those mechanics to encourage otherwise. |
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:36:10 -
[762] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Bastion Arzi wrote:but its only a concord response, its not a total ban on awoxing. so it is still possible however 2 ships will be lost instead of 1. I don't understand your point. If CCP removes awoxing, that is the legal ability to shoot corp mates in highsec, by adding a CONCORD response (although the exact change is probably still under discussion), then shooting a corp mate is exactly the same as suicide ganking. This will severely limit the types of ships that can be destroyed by an awoxer before CONCORD arrives, and makes the whole endeavour (sneaking into a corp to damage it) moot as the attacker will loose their ship exactly the same way as if they did not join the corp in the first place.
yeah i agree |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2915
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:54:53 -
[763] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Enable awoxing for NPC corporations only, and make CONCORD not respond to violence against <10 man corporations. All of EVE' problems solved in two changes. Oh yes because nothing would be better for Eve than the creation of 10 man alt corps or forcing everyone into the blue donut. The playerbase has spoken - their response to awoxxing is to stay in NPC corps...they don't like the mechanic. That is what is motivating CCP, not the fact that awoxxing is claiming victims, but the fact that highsecers are responding en masse by just avoiding the entire corporation system because of it.
It would improve a lot of things and give an incentive to get out of npc corps. It adds easily mitigated risk. You also need to provide proof that people stay in npc corps because of awoxing.
CCP is repeating history right now and we know how popular incarna was.
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Fabio Suave
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 14:57:57 -
[764] - Quote
I don't like the time-based skill system. Instead I wish we all got X number of skill points, and we could drop 1-5 points into any skills we wanted.
Maybe it's an idea for EVE 2? I just hate waiting weeks or months for a skill to train. I love everything else about EVE. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2915
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:13:09 -
[765] - Quote
Fabio Suave wrote:I don't like the time-based skill system. Instead I wish we all got X number of skill points, and we could drop 1-5 points into any skills we wanted.
Maybe it's an idea for EVE 2? I just hate waiting weeks or months for a skill to train. I love everything else about EVE.
This and remove learning implants.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21299
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:15:27 -
[766] - Quote
Fabio Suave wrote:I don't like the time-based skill system. Instead I wish we all got X number of skill points, and we could drop 1-5 points into any skills we wanted.
Maybe it's an idea for EVE 2? I just hate waiting weeks or months for a skill to train. I love everything else about EVE. We passed version 2 a long time ago, we're currently on Version: 8 and a bit.
The fact that skills train in real time is a draw for many, not a deterrent. Unlike pretty much every other game out there your skills still improve when you're not logged in.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:20:43 -
[767] - Quote
Fabio Suave wrote:I don't like the time-based skill system. Instead I wish we all got X number of skill points, and we could drop 1-5 points into any skills we wanted.
Maybe it's an idea for EVE 2? I just hate waiting weeks or months for a skill to train. I love everything else about EVE.
No |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2915
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:27:41 -
[768] - Quote
Wait with unlimited skill queue all we need to do is remove learning implants.
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Fabio Suave
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:49:22 -
[769] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Fabio Suave wrote:I don't like the time-based skill system. Instead I wish we all got X number of skill points, and we could drop 1-5 points into any skills we wanted.
Maybe it's an idea for EVE 2? I just hate waiting weeks or months for a skill to train. I love everything else about EVE. We passed version 2 a long time ago, we're currently on Version: 8 and a bit. The fact that skills train in real time is a draw for many, not a deterrent. Unlike pretty much every other game out there your skills still improve when you're not logged in.
Your skills train while your logged off, sure. But it's like the exercise wheel in a hamster cage - it doesn't take you where you want to go. My main character is years old and still can't fly ships I want. With a point-based system like I described you could just respec your skills and instantly be able to fly a new ship. It's a better system, IMO. They could even charge a small fee for extra respec points and get extra money from people like me that want to jump around and try out new setups all the time.
I started shortly before Incarna and now that I am sitting on all these skill points I can't look back and say "Yeah. All those years were worth it. I sure did a good job waiting all that time." The hamster wheel just keeps turning. I would rather grind the ISK for my new ships and have the instant satisfaction of being able to drop my skill points intodifferent skills. The current system where you grind skill points and can get instant ISK from plex is completely back-asswards.
Anyways, rant over. I don't want to start an argument, I'm just venting. |
R0mparkin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:54:36 -
[770] - Quote
simplest terms whats wrong? EvE hasn't gone F2P yet!!!!! Once EvE goes F2P ccp will see cash rev go up 100% |
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R0mparkin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 15:59:35 -
[771] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Enable awoxing for NPC corporations only, and make CONCORD not respond to violence against <10 man corporations. All of EVE' problems solved in two changes. Oh yes because nothing would be better for Eve than the creation of 10 man alt corps or forcing everyone into the blue donut. The playerbase has spoken - their response to awoxxing is to stay in NPC corps...they don't like the mechanic. That is what is motivating CCP, not the fact that awoxxing is claiming victims, but the fact that highsecers are responding en masse by just avoiding the entire corporation system because of it. It would improve a lot of things and give an incentive to get out of npc corps. It adds easily mitigated risk. You also need to provide proof that people stay in npc corps because of awoxing. CCP is repeating history right now and we know how popular incarna was.
i will confirm it. i stay out of corps because of it. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2917
|
Posted - 2014.10.30 16:10:01 -
[772] - Quote
R0mparkin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:La Nariz wrote:Enable awoxing for NPC corporations only, and make CONCORD not respond to violence against <10 man corporations. All of EVE' problems solved in two changes. Oh yes because nothing would be better for Eve than the creation of 10 man alt corps or forcing everyone into the blue donut. The playerbase has spoken - their response to awoxxing is to stay in NPC corps...they don't like the mechanic. That is what is motivating CCP, not the fact that awoxxing is claiming victims, but the fact that highsecers are responding en masse by just avoiding the entire corporation system because of it. It would improve a lot of things and give an incentive to get out of npc corps. It adds easily mitigated risk. You also need to provide proof that people stay in npc corps because of awoxing. CCP is repeating history right now and we know how popular incarna was. i will confirm it. i stay out of corps because of it.
Now get a couple thousand more people's opinion and do some statistics and we might have something.
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1309
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 05:05:14 -
[773] - Quote
Fabio Suave wrote:I don't like the time-based skill system. Instead I wish we all got X number of skill points, and we could drop 1-5 points into any skills we wanted.
Maybe it's an idea for EVE 2? I just hate waiting weeks or months for a skill to train. I love everything else about EVE.
What you want is a space game based on the WoW system... I'm not saying it wouldn't be popular but this isn't Eve. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
304
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 19:34:36 -
[774] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
Amen to this. There really should be severe consequences to all fighting in highsec, more than just a loss of a ship. and an insignificant sec status drop. Wardecs need to go bye bye too. They are the equivalent to the government allowing criminal activity against others for no reason at all. In either context it is an affront to fundamental fairness and civility. If you want to fight people take your bullshit to low/null sec. Allowing that boorishness in highsec to go unpunshed is what turns people off from this game. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2972
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 19:39:36 -
[775] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
Amen to this. There really should be severe consequences to all fighting in highsec, more than just a loss of a ship. and an insignificant sec status drop. Wardecs need to go bye bye too. They are the equivalent to the government allowing criminal activity against others for no reason at all. In either context it is an affront to fundamental fairness and civility. If you want to fight people take your bullshit to low/null sec. Allowing that boorishness in highsec to go unpunshed is what turns people off from this game.
There is a reason, capsuleers bribe the government to ignore the crime that's going to happen. Removing pvp from highsec should only happen if all activities are also removed from highsec.
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
82
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:25:59 -
[776] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:
Amen to this. There really should be severe consequences to all fighting in highsec, more than just a loss of a ship. and an insignificant sec status drop. Wardecs need to go bye bye too. They are the equivalent to the government allowing criminal activity against others for no reason at all. In either context it is an affront to fundamental fairness and civility. If you want to fight people take your bullshit to low/null sec. Allowing that boorishness in highsec to go unpunshed is what turns people off from this game.
Are you daft???
Ok fine I love industry, i like missioning at times. I enjjoy the ability to get rid of competitors if i so choose to in what ever way i like, gank or dec. I am not a carebear....because that is a state of mentality. So i must say, if PEW PEW PVP is removed from highsec and i have no way to curtail botters, competitors or what not....then yes if gunboat PvP is removed from highsec then all missions, mining, PI, incursions....everything must be moved into Losec and Nullsec...anything worth to the game of EvE being played...so all those worthless rocks with no usebale mins can stay in highsec, and if must have missions...they must be lowkey with no loot drops, and a maximum of 5 ISK bounty paid per kill, and the wrecks must not give not give up salvage.
That is how it should be if combat PVP is 100% taken away from highsec.....so yeha keep preaching. Matter in fact I think you deserve to be ganked or dec'd for what you said |
Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5821
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:37:34 -
[777] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
Amen to this. There really should be severe consequences to all fighting in highsec, more than just a loss of a ship. and an insignificant sec status drop. Wardecs need to go bye bye too. They are the equivalent to the government allowing criminal activity against others for no reason at all. In either context it is an affront to fundamental fairness and civility. If you want to fight people take your bullshit to low/null sec. Allowing that boorishness in highsec to go unpunshed is what turns people off from this game.
No, this is simply wrong, nobody gets 'turned off' EVE that wasn't already going to get turned off. Allowing PVP to continue in highsec is what filters out the weak from this game, the slackjawed carebears that can't handle a little competition from intelligent people instead of AI. It's because of that that EVE as it is may fail, because the console generation it's attracting these days is basically bred weak by virtue of the easiness of today's games. It may have to become something else if CCP wishes to keep making money from it, but without PVP in highsec, EVE will be EVE in name only. The EVE I subscribed for will be long gone.
But every person that quits EVE because of PVP is EVE working exactly as intended. EVE is a PVP game, after all, and whether you subscribe to it knowing that, or not knowing that, is entirely on you. When you play a game of chess, do you change the rules to make it easier on you, or do you play it as intended? You don't change the game, you learn it, and adapt to it, or you weren't really playing the game to begin with.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10443
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:45:00 -
[778] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Wardecs need to go bye bye too. They are the equivalent to the government allowing criminal activity against others for no reason at all.
It's not "no reason", we're paying them the equivalent of the gross domestic product of two dozen industrialized planets to be able to shoot each other.
That's as good of a reason as a government could ask for.
Quote: In either context it is an affront to fundamental fairness and civility.
This is a PvP videogame, you silly ****. There is no "civility".
Quote: If you want to fight people take your bullshit to low/null sec.
No. PvP belongs everywhere, that includes highsec. If you don't want to PvP in this PvP game, take your bullshit to Star Trek Online with the rest of the losers.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21369
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:46:15 -
[779] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:
Ok fine I love industry, i like missioning at times. I enjjoy the ability to get rid of competitors if i so choose to in what ever way i like, gank or dec. I am not a carebear....because that is a state of mentality.
Bang on the money, carebearism is an attitude not a playstyle. I mainly mission and dabble in industry, and I actively take steps to minimise the risk from other players. I don't expect CCP to do it for me.
Quote:So i must say, if PEW PEW PVP is removed from highsec and i have no way to curtail botters, competitors or what not....then yes if gunboat PvP is removed from highsec then all missions, mining, PI, incursions....everything must be moved into Losec and Nullsec...anything worth to the game of EvE being played...so all those worthless rocks with no usebale mins can stay in highsec, and if must have missions...they must be lowkey with no loot drops, and a maximum of 5 ISK bounty paid per kill, and the wrecks must not give not give up salvage. Agreed, and sadly it would turn Eve into just another MMO with highsec essentially being a separate shard.
Quote:That is how it should be if combat PVP is 100% taken away from highsec.....so yeha keep preaching. Matter in fact I think you deserve to be ganked or dec'd for what you said Agreed, in fact I think Shizuken deserves to be be relentlessly hounded until he or she quits entirely.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5822
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:48:58 -
[780] - Quote
In light of my last post, I have an answer for the OP's title question.
In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE?
The players, most notably, the players who want to turn EVE into a themepark ride. CCP needs to stop catering to them and remember the foundations upon which EVE was conceived. The game itself is a great game, and has been for over a decade.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10444
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:54:04 -
[781] - Quote
If you wanted to play a prissified, civil, well mannered, raise-your-pinky-in-the-air kind of game, and you chose a PvP sandbox game, you are quite literally mentally challenged.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21371
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:56:33 -
[782] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:The players, most notably, the players who want to turn EVE into a themepark ride. CCP needs to stop catering to them and remember the foundations upon which EVE was conceived. The game itself is a great game, and has been for over a decade. The self same players who, if they succeed in turning Eve into a theme park, will leave shortly thereafter and go onto the next latest and greatest game because "Eve is boring", leaving those of us that are left and actually liked Eve for what it "was" with a hideously broken game.
There's even historical precedent for it, to wit, Ultima Online.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5824
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:59:56 -
[783] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:The players, most notably, the players who want to turn EVE into a themepark ride. CCP needs to stop catering to them and remember the foundations upon which EVE was conceived. The game itself is a great game, and has been for over a decade. The self same players who, if they succeed in turning Eve into a theme park, will leave shortly thereafter and go onto the next latest and greatest game because "it's boring" leaving those of us that are left and actually liked Eve for what it "was" with a hideously broken game. There's even historical precedent for it, to wit, Ultima Online.
Ironically, it's exactly that happening to Ultima which lead to the development of EVE Online.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10445
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:01:31 -
[784] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:The players, most notably, the players who want to turn EVE into a themepark ride. CCP needs to stop catering to them and remember the foundations upon which EVE was conceived. The game itself is a great game, and has been for over a decade. The self same players who, if they succeed in turning Eve into a theme park, will leave shortly thereafter and go onto the next latest and greatest game because "it's boring" leaving those of us that are left and actually liked Eve for what it "was" with a hideously broken game. There's even historical precedent for it, to wit, Ultima Online. Ironically, it's exactly that happening to Ultima which lead to the development of EVE Online.
So what I'm getting from this is that carebears are like locusts.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21371
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:01:44 -
[785] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:The players, most notably, the players who want to turn EVE into a themepark ride. CCP needs to stop catering to them and remember the foundations upon which EVE was conceived. The game itself is a great game, and has been for over a decade. The self same players who, if they succeed in turning Eve into a theme park, will leave shortly thereafter and go onto the next latest and greatest game because "it's boring" leaving those of us that are left and actually liked Eve for what it "was" with a hideously broken game. There's even historical precedent for it, to wit, Ultima Online. Ironically, it's exactly that happening to Ultima which lead to the development of EVE Online. Unfortunately CCP appear to have forgotten their roots in that respect. At least that's the impression I get from some of the proposed changes to highsec.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2470
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:03:01 -
[786] - Quote
Thread spillover. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21371
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:04:49 -
[787] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Thread spillover. Bound to happen, the threads are so closely related that King Joffery could be their child
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5825
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:08:28 -
[788] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:The players, most notably, the players who want to turn EVE into a themepark ride. CCP needs to stop catering to them and remember the foundations upon which EVE was conceived. The game itself is a great game, and has been for over a decade. The self same players who, if they succeed in turning Eve into a theme park, will leave shortly thereafter and go onto the next latest and greatest game because "it's boring" leaving those of us that are left and actually liked Eve for what it "was" with a hideously broken game. There's even historical precedent for it, to wit, Ultima Online. Ironically, it's exactly that happening to Ultima which lead to the development of EVE Online. Unfortunately CCP appear to have forgotten their roots in that respect. At least that's the impression I get from some of the proposed changes to highsec.
Which is why it's important to remind them, and not just them, but the players doing the damage as well. They need to be told what the game is meant to be in contrast to what they want it to be. Best case scenario, they understand, and either adapt to what EVE is or move on to something else. Worst case scenario, they keep trying to play chess like a game of checkers, fail, and quit anyway. In the extreme event that CCP caves completely and EVE goes themepark, then it won't be EVE anymore, and I've a thousand other games I could be playing instead.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2470
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:14:57 -
[789] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:The players, most notably, the players who want to turn EVE into a themepark ride. CCP needs to stop catering to them and remember the foundations upon which EVE was conceived. The game itself is a great game, and has been for over a decade. The self same players who, if they succeed in turning Eve into a theme park, will leave shortly thereafter and go onto the next latest and greatest game because "it's boring" leaving those of us that are left and actually liked Eve for what it "was" with a hideously broken game. There's even historical precedent for it, to wit, Ultima Online. Ironically, it's exactly that happening to Ultima which lead to the development of EVE Online. Unfortunately CCP appear to have forgotten their roots in that respect. At least that's the impression I get from some of the proposed changes to highsec. Which is why it's important to remind them, and not just them, but the players doing the damage as well. They need to be told what the game is meant to be in contrast to what they want it to be. Best case scenario, they understand, and either adapt to what EVE is or move on to something else. Worst case scenario, they keep trying to play chess like a game of checkers, fail, and quit anyway. In the extreme event that CCP caves completely and EVE goes themepark, then it won't be EVE anymore, and I've a thousand other games I could be playing instead. I'm all for the sandbox, crime, betrayal, suicide ganking, corp theft, all that good stuff. But what part of your vision suggests new players will want to come into a game where older players beat them mercilessly due to arcane mechanics or, worse still, no one wants to play with them in the first place because they're a risk?
An eve without new players is not a game that will last the next decade. I want eve to last the next decade. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10447
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:20:28 -
[790] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: or, worse still, no one wants to play with them in the first place because they're a risk?
I have no problem getting into corps with my awox alts. Dozens and dozens of times, with killboard records like a gaping wound.
So this "no one is recruiting" fallacy people have devised seems entirely made up to me.
There are no shortage of people hiring new players. None whatsoever.
Quote: An eve without new players is not a game that will last the next decade. I want eve to last the next decade.
Then don't sell it's soul for the sake of theoretical casuals. Ultima Online made that mistake.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2470
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:22:23 -
[791] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: or, worse still, no one wants to play with them in the first place because they're a risk?
I have no problem getting into corps with my awox alts. Dozens and dozens of times, with killboard records like a gaping wound. So this "no one is recruiting" fallacy people have devised seems entirely made up to me. There are no shortage of people hiring new players. None whatsoever. So CCP, with it's access to a reliable base of statistics on the playerbase as a whole, is....what? Making stuff up? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21374
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:29:30 -
[792] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: or, worse still, no one wants to play with them in the first place because they're a risk?
I have no problem getting into corps with my awox alts. Dozens and dozens of times, with killboard records like a gaping wound. So this "no one is recruiting" fallacy people have devised seems entirely made up to me. There are no shortage of people hiring new players. None whatsoever. So CCP, with it's access to a reliable base of statistics on the playerbase as a whole, is....what? Making stuff up? As you say CCP has the stats, however, in my experience there's plenty of corps out there openly recruiting. I see their can spam everywhere, my alt that's currently in an NPC corp receives evemails regularly from recruiters spamming everyone in local or the NPC chat channels.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10447
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:31:50 -
[793] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: or, worse still, no one wants to play with them in the first place because they're a risk?
I have no problem getting into corps with my awox alts. Dozens and dozens of times, with killboard records like a gaping wound. So this "no one is recruiting" fallacy people have devised seems entirely made up to me. There are no shortage of people hiring new players. None whatsoever. So CCP, with it's access to a reliable base of statistics on the playerbase as a whole, is....what? Making stuff up?
CCP did not say a word about any stats on the matter.
Literally. Go read it again, they mention absolutely nothing about numbers, both of them just talked touchy feely speculation the whole time.
And they'd be the ones who'd have the data, as you said. So either the data isn't there, or for some reason they decided to omit everything that might strengthen their argument.
But for what I see? With a week long rap sheet of killing corpies, I can get into a corp easily. Easily. As in, I have to wait two hours at most before someone lets me in.
A genuinely new player is not going to magically have a harder time. To suggest so is foolishness.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2470
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 02:57:15 -
[794] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: So CCP, with it's access to a reliable base of statistics on the playerbase as a whole, is....what? Making stuff up?
CCP did not say a word about any stats on the matter. Literally. Go read it again, they mention absolutely nothing about numbers, both of them just talked touchy feely speculation the whole time. And they'd be the ones who'd have the data, as you said. So either the data isn't there, or for some reason they decided to omit everything that might strengthen their argument. But for what I see? With a week long rap sheet of killing corpies, I can get into a corp easily. Easily. As in, I have to wait two hours at most before someone lets me in. A genuinely new player is not going to magically have a harder time. To suggest so is foolishness. CCP is not obligated to provide you with any stats in the minutes. Player retention is a serious issue for CCP, you'd have to be daft to think they don't look at the related metrics. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2473
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 03:04:44 -
[795] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:An eve without new players is not a game that will last the next decade. I want eve to last the next decade. As do I, but not as some poxy themepark that's a shadow of its former self (worse case scenario) Yes but adding a concord response to attacking a corp mate won't turn it into a "poxy themepark." You know that, and I know that. Scams, awoxes (of the traditional low/null variety), suicide ganking, scamming, spying, war decs, miner bumping, and god knows what else are unaffected.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:So CCP, with it's access to a reliable base of statistics on the playerbase as a whole, is....what? Making stuff up? As you say CCP has the stats, however, in my experience there's plenty of corps out there openly recruiting. I see their can spam everywhere, my alt that's currently in an NPC corp receives evemails regularly from recruiters spamming everyone in local or the NPC chat channels. While I appreciate that point of view, the evidence you provide is purely anecdotal. The fact that ccp (who is historically slow to act on anything) is taking action now suggests that they have some particular metric motivating them to do so. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5601
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 03:12:21 -
[796] - Quote
So a thread about AWOXing has spilled over into a thread asking "what is wrong with Eve?".
Think about that.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21374
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 03:30:50 -
[797] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Yes but adding a concord response to attacking a corp mate won't turn it into a "poxy themepark." Hence the worst case scenario in brackets, I don't expect CCP to go down that path, they're not stupid; but there is always a remote possibility that some moron in marketing or the shareholders will attempt to push them down that path as a way of increasing subscriptions and thus revenue.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Quote:So CCP, with it's access to a reliable base of statistics on the playerbase as a whole, is....what? Making stuff up? As you say CCP has the stats, however, in my experience there's plenty of corps out there openly recruiting. I see their can spam everywhere, my alt that's currently in an NPC corp receives evemails regularly from recruiters spamming everyone in local or the NPC chat channels. While I appreciate that point of view, the evidence you provide is purely anecdotal. The fact that ccp (who is historically slow to act on anything) is taking action now suggests that they have some particular metric motivating them to do so.[/quote]Agreed it is anecdote, I merely present the evidence that I see with my own eyes.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2975
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 03:55:55 -
[798] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:So a thread about AWOXing has spilled over into a thread asking "what is wrong with Eve?".
Think about that.
Highsec has more prevalence in this thread than awoxing think about that.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5826
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 04:07:13 -
[799] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: Which is why it's important to remind them, and not just them, but the players doing the damage as well. They need to be told what the game is meant to be in contrast to what they want it to be. Best case scenario, they understand, and either adapt to what EVE is or move on to something else. Worst case scenario, they keep trying to play chess like a game of checkers, fail, and quit anyway. In the extreme event that CCP caves completely and EVE goes themepark, then it won't be EVE anymore, and I've a thousand other games I could be playing instead.
I'm all for the sandbox, crime, betrayal, suicide ganking, corp theft, all that good stuff. But what part of your vision suggests new players will want to come into a game where older players beat them mercilessly due to arcane mechanics or, worse still, no one wants to play with them in the first place because they're a risk? An eve without new players is not a game that will last the next decade. I want eve to last the next decade.
We're not talking about my vision, we're talking about the original vision for EVE in the first place. And also, rubbish. I was new to the game in 2012 and I'm still picking up new players today. I'm calling BS on your 'no new people want to play' lie, a carebear-invention to force CCP to pander to those that would turn EVE into a themepark. Those kinds of lies are the real problem with EVE, and by telling them, you make yourself part of the problem.
An EVE without new players is not an indication of something wrong with EVE, it's an indication of something wrong with a lack of strong enough players. If EVE changes to cater to the weak, then it is no longer EVE anyway. Changing EVE to make it something else means it dies anyway, and you don't get your next decade.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 05:17:48 -
[800] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:the original vision for EVE
There ain't no greater Vision. One Vision for sure was: Lets earn money!
Funny, WoW hated by lots of players was a pioneer, an example that MMOs can work and bring money. EvE, developed by a small team, it was hard to add much in game stuff, so it was just declared as sandbox and was started as a kind of experiment. Players (together with CCP) made EvE what it is today.
EvE and CCP do what all must do. Change and adapt, or die.
Remiel Pollard wrote: An EVE without new players is not an indication of something wrong with EVE, it's an indication of something wrong with a lack of strong enough players.
Life goes on, so there will always be people who leave New Eden for somthing else. So without new Players EvE is dying very fast. Changes to highsec do not make New Eden catering the weak. This sounds like someone who hides hinself in hisec and mocks other players because he thinks he is tougher. CCP will want to create some kind of reliable rookie area but have lots incentives to lure people out of those areas.
Forum Main
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5827
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 06:52:02 -
[801] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:the original vision for EVE There ain't no greater Vision.
Way to quote mine. Again, I'm not talking about a greater vision, or my vision, but the ORIGINAL vision. If you think people only do things for money, you aren't just an idiot but incredibly pessimistic as well. EVE was created by gamers that wanted an open PVP sandbox.
Quote:EvE and CCP do what all must do. Change and adapt, or die.
Of course they will, but the EVE we have now won't be EVE anymore if it panders to the WOW crowd. It has survived more than a decade without having to do that. There are plenty of spaceship games out there for the weak to play, but there is only one single-shard PVP player-driven sandbox.
Quote:Life goes on, so there will always be people who leave New Eden for somthing else. So without new Players EvE is dying very fast. Changes to highsec do not make New Eden catering the weak. This sounds like someone who hides hinself in hisec and mocks other players because he thinks he is tougher. CCP will want to create some kind of reliable rookie area but have lots incentives to lure people out of those areas.
You sound like someone who doesn't check their facts. I haven't been to high sec in months, and I ain't hiding. If you want to make this personal, then come at me in game. Unless you're the one hiding, of course. High sec already has rookie areas, they're called starter systems. There is plenty of room to create some learning content in those systems for rookies to munch on while they learn the basics.
High sec is meant to be the safest part of New Eden. It is not meant to be safe, but safer. Do you understand the difference? There are no PVP zones, no mining zones, no trading zones, because the entire game is an all-in-one zone, hence single-shard. If you put too much cotton wool on new players, and they get used to it and expect it all the time. They will quit eventually ANYWAY because of the nasty surprise they'll get when their cotton wool layer gets melted by someone's antimatter. Better that they discover what the game is from the very beginning and either adapt or quit sooner.
You don't sit down to a game of chess and try to play checkers, so why the hell would you log into EVE and expect WOW?
And in future, before you get snarky and pompous at me, try actually understanding what I'm saying, and not taking it out of context. Intentional ignorance is not a good place to make a point from.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 09:48:49 -
[802] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:La Rynx wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:the original vision for EVE There ain't no greater Vision. Way to quote mine. Again, I'm not talking about a greater vision, or my vision, but the ORIGINAL vision. Kapitals do not help you. There is no ORIGINAL (greater) Vision.
Remiel Pollard wrote: Of course they will, but the EVE we have now won't be EVE anymore if it panders to the WOW crowd.
Nice simplification. CCP will try to get more customers. They started to concentrate on the core-business since the other projects didn't work out so well. They want at least not lose more customers, no they want more paying customers. More customers means more occasional players. Players that do not have so much time or do not spend so mauch time as others but still want to play in a big universe. To get those, EvE will changed to be an option for those players. EvE will change as it has changed over the years. CCP is smoothing the Edges of EvE all the time and they will continue doing that.
Maybe some old players leave, but just thanks to Elite and SC, now is the Time for EvE to, new players will come.
You whine about a change in hisec when you don't play there and it doesn't affect you. The rookies can still be shoot by corpsmembers, but the awoxer will lose his ship. There is no rsik for the awoxer, so i do not see why he should get a free reward.
Quote:This sounds like someone who hides hinself in hisec and mocks other players because he thinks he is tougher. about understanding differences, i did not say that you are in hisec. Try reading again.
Forum Main
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5830
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 10:21:23 -
[803] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:There is no ORIGINAL (greater) Vision.
No, sorry, don't be stupid. Show me a thesaurus where 'original' is synonymous with 'greater' and we'll talk about how you're no longer a complete moron because right now, you're intentionally and pretentiously putting words in my mouth. It's not only rude, it's stupid, and by doing so you are intentionally ignoring my point. also, *capitals were added for emphasis to point out how stupid you were being by replacing 'original' with 'greater'. My point was, which you intentionally ignored again, that they do not mean the same thing. I never suggested there was a 'greater' vision, and for you to suggest such a thing to further your own agenda is idiotic rhetoric. If you're going to play rhetoric games, try playing them with someone who's not me, because I've played them with the best.
Quote:Maybe some old players leave, but just thanks to Elite and SC, now is the Time for EvE to, new players will come.
EVE is still getting new players. I know, because I recruit them frequently. They stick around more often when they have a good idea of what to expect in EVE, and I know this from experience. This lie you perpetuate that EVE isn't getting or retaining new players is not fooling anyone except those of the carebear persuasion, such as yourself, but I suspect some proponents of this lie as a scare tactic to convince carebears to pull out the bullhorns and use it to demand CCP change the game or they're gonna quit. Truth be told, the game is better off without them, and better off without you, trying to change it from chess to checkers. Bottom line, lrn2EVE, or **** off.
Quote:You whine about a change in hisec when you don't play there and it doesn't affect you.
I'm not whining about anything, I'm criticising unnecessary changes to EVE, regardless of what sec it's in. I was merely pointing out your bullshit presumption that I was hiding in highsec to avoid risk. For the record, being in high sec does not mean one is avoiding risk. It may mean they are creating risk for those that think high sec is risk free. Additionally, by assuming one is in high sec to avoid risk, one is already conceding that it is risk-free enough, so why are we making it more so?
[quote[The rookies can still be shoot by corps members, but the awoxer will lose his ship. There is no risk for the awoxer, so i do not see why he should get a free reward.[/quote]
Of course there is risk to the awoxer. By virtue of an awoxer being able to shoot his corp, he can also be shot by his own corp. That's the risk he takes. Why bring concord into this? Why do we need to summon magic space fairies to save us when we're 100% capable of shooting back? What kind of pussies are we to need concord at all?
Quote: about understanding differences, i did not say that you are in hisec. Try reading again.
I read it just fine. You were making an idiotic assumption about me based on flawed logic. I'm not surprised though, considering you have demonstrated little to no grasp on logic to begin with, but I could be wrong. You could be doing it intentionally as a form of passive-aggressive vexatious mud slinging because you're just buttmad. So instead of flinging idiotic presumptions like a monkey flinging it's own poop, let's try growing up and discussing things like adults. That would include not putting words in my mouth. Seriously, pretending 'original' means the same thing as 'greater' is nothing more than a moronic attempt to shift the goalposts and pretend I'm arguing something I'm not. Try again, or **** off.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
662
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 10:25:15 -
[804] - Quote
and yet, some compromises should not be made. More money is good, sure. Changing your product to be more appealing to the masses by altering fundamental features of it and thus possibly alienating your current customers? Dubious. There is such a thing as bad money, I assure you. A short term gain that results in a long term falloff isn't healthy. Drastic changes will likely do more harm than good in the long run, whereas some lesser tweaks here and there may cause benefit. Change isn't necessarily a bad thing, but caution has to be employed when you start talking about altering things like overall safety in high sec. Remove AWOXing and what's left? Wardecs and suicide ganks. Then the bloody shirt gets waved again and the rabble rises up against ganking again... then perhaps that gets nuked too. Wardecs unfair! Nuked. Suddenly it's only honorable space duels, or perhaps people having to flag themselves to pvp in order to fight in high sec... *shudder* Now I'm gonna have to splode a mission runner to get that image out of my head. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5602
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 11:02:42 -
[805] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:So a thread about AWOXing has spilled over into a thread asking "what is wrong with Eve?".
Think about that.
Highsec has more prevalence in this thread than awoxing think about that.
Yeah yeah the usual hate highsec and all that. The schtick is getting old. I've prowled in goon space. All they do is farm out there.
What wrong with Eve is that everybody boils down to farming and grinding and even those who win at Eve merely win more farming.
Enjoy the stagnation.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
290
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 11:20:26 -
[806] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:So a thread about AWOXing has spilled over into a thread asking "what is wrong with Eve?".
Think about that.
I could start a thread about Corvettes and by page 2 we are talking about how Rick Shaw Drivers are putting Bus Drivers out of work... |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2981
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 13:34:51 -
[807] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Yeah yeah the usual hate highsec and all that. The schtick is getting old. I've prowled in goon space. All they do is farm out there.
What wrong with Eve is that everybody boils down to farming and grinding and even those who win at Eve merely win more farming.
Enjoy the stagnation.
If they fixed the risk : reward dynamic it would stop coming up.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
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Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
401
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 13:39:22 -
[808] - Quote
In simple Terms ,people forget it's game and want to inehect real life term or concept in it like
HONOR or some bullshit .
In this game respect this rules and evrything will be fine
1- Don't trust anyone
2-never fly solo ,and apply rule n-¦1
3-Train , train train pvp like hell with frigs , if you want to duel do it with T1 frigs maybe T1 cruiser if you don't know the guy and apply N-¦1
4-Specialize yourself one Race ( caldari etc etc ) , one kind of ship in the first time and aplly n-¦1 .. not even trust yourself ...for skillplan.
CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails
.... Open that damn door !!
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Arla Sarain
91
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 15:17:13 -
[809] - Quote
In simplest terms what is wrong with EVE
It sends out the wrong message. People think that the game is Missions and Highsec. Everything else is an overthought and is present for richer kids.
This is largely the consequence of poor NPE. CCP is aware of that.
Fixes are coming.
Many fights will be had. Burn [insert place here]. |
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
61
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 20:39:45 -
[810] - Quote
OP, I totally understand why you felt compelled to make this post. If you are saying these grief monkeys are part of what is wrong with EVE it seems to me you would be correct. EVE is a griefers paradise. There are no significant penalties for suicide ganking and players can even fly into your missions in high sec and **** with your mission required items at no penalty to them whatsoever. Additionally, being a suicide ganker/griefer in EVE does not take any skill or brainpower whatsoever. And for some of these pathetic losers who seem to get so much pleasure out of shitting in someone elses corn flakes who doesn't have the ability to fight back, the easier the better. I assume they do it to make other players feel some of what they are feeling all the time.
You are right to feel sorry for them
As a skilled pvper I would not often waste my time picking on weaklings in any game. I find it much more satisfying going after players targets can actually provide a challenge and try hards. |
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P3ps1 Max
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 20:55:35 -
[811] - Quote
Not a game but rather a time queue could be one? |
AeonOfTime
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
39
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 21:03:05 -
[812] - Quote
OP, you managed to voice what I had trouble describing. I think you pretty much nailed it, and I share your fears for the future.
I started playing with Red Moon Rising, and I believe that on a social level the game has worsened over time. While it is not easily quantifiable, New Eden is definitely more dangerous today than it was back then - despite all the so-called buffs to highsec. I suppose that marketing the game by promoting the ruthlessness of the universe paid off.
I love EVE, but I doubt I would keep playing if I joined today. People like C.O.D.E. would quite possibly have spoiled my miner's gaming experience, not to mention other awesome metagaming trends that have risen since then. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6601
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 21:28:08 -
[813] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
We're not talking about my vision, we're talking about the original vision for EVE in the first place.
The original vision for EVE was a fully interactive science fiction simulation. This in no way stopped at flying in space. CCP's vision included not only walking in stations as a core mechanic, but also planetary flight and many other interesting immersive ideas.
I waited for years to see the realization of that dream. Sadly, the nearest we got was 'asshats in space' and a room with a couch.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3176
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 22:09:19 -
[814] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
We're not talking about my vision, we're talking about the original vision for EVE in the first place.
The original vision for EVE was a fully interactive science fiction simulation. This in no way stopped at flying in space. CCP's vision included not only walking in stations as a core mechanic, but also planetary flight and many other interesting immersive ideas. I waited for years to see the realization of that dream. Sadly, the nearest we got was 'asshats in space' and a room with a couch. Mr Epeen
The original idea behind EVE was "Elite with friends". Yes, it is a bit difficult to see that after what the concept became and 11 years of evolution, but the idea was exactly that: "Elite with friends".
Ironically, the game EVE intended to be still hasn't been done. Elite: Dangerous is "space pilot simulator online" and there really is no point in playing it with friends.
Star Citizen is All In One Chris Roberts Franchise, and God help me if I know what that thing pretends to be -certainly not the same I backed up when they barely had got 120,000 USD.
As for the future of EVE, I wish it was a game I could like better. I keep a modicum of faith that it can grow outside of its niche (as CCP never messed up expanding PvE because they never expanded PvE), but so far the odds are 5:1 in favor of death over expansion beyond the niche.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Michele Bachmann
Collapsed Out Overload Everything
102
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 23:50:03 -
[815] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
This is a classic trait of the high sec crowd: believing EVE is some balkanized 'thing' instead of what it is; a singular whole. The rules apply everywhere, the ONLY difference is the consequences in high sec.
CONCORD does not wipe out criminals, criminals fly everyday in high sec in full view of CONCORD. The system provides a consequence for certain actions, but that's all. Guns don't magically stop working just because one is in high sec.
Another confused argument. Try to grasp that all of the game mechanics are arbitrarily determined by CCP, and can, and often are, changed on a whim. To advocate for changes that I view as positive for the game is nothing short of laudable. LOL ccp doesn't arbitrarily decide about mechanics of the game.
But i forgot you're so far up your own butthole you dont notice what you even had for lunch |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
158
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 00:10:16 -
[816] - Quote
Aeon Plex wrote:I wanted to share quickly what I see as wrong with EVE, and what is so amazingly right, at the same time.
Over the last month, the price of the Garmur has dropped drastically. This is awesome as I've been waiting to get one!
So last night I got a Garmur. Looked up fits and made one I liked. I took it out for a spin and the second I undocked from jita every single person wanted a duel. I was finally hailed to convo by a 9 year old character asking if I wanted to duel.
"Sure I said, but only to hull, as I just bought this and I haven't had a proper fight in it yet."
They agreed, more than once, and I was very very clear. But were busy, and kept putting off he fight, so I logged for the night.
Tonight I jump on, and a few minutes later I'm hailed again by this 9 yr old character. They ask if I would like to duel to hull, and I say sure!
We fly to planet 1, and they ask if they can test the range on their fit, and I'm happy to oblige. They ask me to stop orbiting them so they can check range, and so I do, and then they fly to 0, and kill my Garmur without hesitation, then blink off the conversation we had been having for about an hour.
Now you may say to yourself, "well, duh! Next time don't trust anyone in EVE!"
but honestly that's what he said, so don't be an idiot.
Let's be clear. Losing an 80 mil ISK ship isn't going to bankrupt me or ruin my experience in EVE.
I can see it ruining someone else's experience though, and that's what I want to express. This person had nothing to gain, not even a killmail from killing my Garmur. Doing this kind of thing, is what makes people leave this game. And maybe that's what someone like him wants.
If it had been a fair fight and he had kept going past hull, I wouldn't have minded all that much, but there was no honor, and no sportsmanship at all. In the end, I really just ended up feeling sorry for this guy as a human being.
I've met some really amazing people in EVE, people that have given me ships, people that have taught me things about the game, and people that have podded me, and then given me the money I would need to get my ship back 10x.
Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
I know myself, that I rarely see any new characters anymore. Everyone I see is almost 10 years old. And this is why. If a 9 year old character has nothing better to do, that troll new characters, and under the sad guise of 'don't trust anyone in EVE' then I'm really not sure that I can see a long term investment in this game is something I want to consider.
*Snip* Please refrain from posting private in game correspondence. ISD Ezwal.
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
YOU are what's wrong with Eve. Goodbye. |
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
77
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 00:23:07 -
[817] - Quote
I'd be more concerned that appearantly people are leaving the game before they get a chance to get hooked on it.
If that is happening on such a scale that CCP finds it unavoidable to remove a given mechanic then maybe everybody will just have to swallow and get on with it?
Also, when i re-joined this game two months ago i was greeted with two Corp invites.
- The first was in German, stating i needn't bother to reply if i didn't speak German. - The second one had a list of do's and don'ts as long as my flippin' arm. It ended with requiring a full API ? Yeah right. Maybe check up my arse for any hidden contraband as well? .. yes, no?
If there is a Red versus Blue floating about and an Eve University and the likes, then why the hell aren't THEY out there reeling the newbies in and educating them?
Offer them an education that touches all the bases and then kick em out. To get them in... make them offers they cant refuse (Reputation with chosen faction, a bunch of cash, a few nice frigats etc..) Kindof like the tutorial does but then in a more 'live' fashion.
Anyway, there are probably lots of creative ways to pull people in and make em enthousiastic for the game.
Questioning CCP's ability to evaluate the data and exit polls is NOT one of em... seriously, the sheer arrogance.
Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
|
Bastion Arzi
Mortis Angelus The Kadeshi
199
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 00:41:24 -
[818] - Quote
Paynus Maiassus wrote:YOU are what's wrong with Eve. Goodbye.
prick
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5834
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 02:02:00 -
[819] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
We're not talking about my vision, we're talking about the original vision for EVE in the first place.
The original vision for EVE was a fully interactive science fiction simulation. This in no way stopped at flying in space. CCP's vision included not only walking in stations as a core mechanic, but also planetary flight and many other interesting immersive ideas. I waited for years to see the realization of that dream. Sadly, the nearest we got was 'asshats in space' and a room with a couch. Mr Epeen
Indeed, agree 100%, I would have loved to have seen all this properly implemented in the EVE sandbox.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5836
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 02:13:24 -
[820] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I keep a modicum of faith that it can grow outside of its niche (as CCP never messed up expanding PvE because they never expanded PvE), but so far the odds are 5:1 in favor of death over expansion beyond the niche.
If EVE changes to be more inclusive, it is no longer EVE, so it's dead anyway. If it EXPANDS to be more inclusive, however, it can still be EVE, but with something else added on. It's the same difference between Ferrari changing what it makes entirely from fast exotic sports cars to family saloons and wagons, where they cut out the exotic audience, or continuing production on the exotics but ADDING family saloons and wagons, whereby they continue to attract exotic customers but also attract new customers.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 03:05:38 -
[821] - Quote
CCP growing the game from a single account and training into multi-training for RL cash and bots that never get cleaned out even when reported, and CCP allowing the use of some automation script programs that are by definition botting. Simplest terms.
Remiel Pollard wrote:Shizuken wrote:Aeon Plex wrote: Ask yourself though, when the majority of people that come into this game as newbies get treated like crap, (I have been treated like crap plenty more times than this in EVE) and for no reason, and leave, can you blame them? And can you see any future in a game like that? Any real value?
Whatever, I'll buy another ship, but how much longer can a game like this really last? I've talked with ppl on TS about this, and they are just as worried about the serious lack of new blood in EVE.
Amen to this. There really should be severe consequences to all fighting in highsec, more than just a loss of a ship. and an insignificant sec status drop. Wardecs need to go bye bye too. They are the equivalent to the government allowing criminal activity against others for no reason at all. In either context it is an affront to fundamental fairness and civility. If you want to fight people take your bullshit to low/null sec. Allowing that boorishness in highsec to go unpunshed is what turns people off from this game. No, this is simply wrong, nobody gets 'turned off' EVE that wasn't already going to get turned off. Allowing PVP to continue in highsec is what filters out the weak from this game, the slackjawed carebears that can't handle a little competition from intelligent people instead of AI. It's because of that that EVE as it is may fail, because the console generation it's attracting these days is basically bred weak by virtue of the easiness of today's games. It may have to become something else if CCP wishes to keep making money from it, but without PVP in highsec, EVE will be EVE in name only. The EVE I subscribed for will be long gone. But every person that quits EVE because of PVP is EVE working exactly as intended. EVE is a PVP game, after all, and whether you subscribe to it knowing that, or not knowing that, is entirely on you. When you play a game of chess, do you change the rules to make it easier on you, or do you play it as intended? You don't change the game, you learn it, and adapt to it, or you weren't really playing the game to begin with.
Because people who play MMO's do it to not interact with other people, or be challenged by intelligent opposition, right? Because people that prefer multiplayer FPS over single player are going to complain about PvP in a fair environment, right?
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Race Rocket
Rockets and Missile
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 03:58:54 -
[822] - Quote
I completely agree with you.
CCP will have to create a balanced PVP solo mechanic once games like Star citizen or Elite get going, and their player base shrinks. CCP allows far too many griefer's to play this game and should create a duel that restricts variables as you requested, such as duel to hull only, or armor, etc... basically a setting when you set up the duel that restricts the fight to that variable. That way you can adjust your play styles, meet new players and assure a balance. They do it for contracts, why not honor.
The PVP in this game is a total joke, just exploit after exploit and more boring than PVE.
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3450
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 04:17:36 -
[823] - Quote
Removed an off topic post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5837
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 06:26:08 -
[824] - Quote
Race Rocket wrote:I completely agree with you.
CCP will have to create a balanced PVP solo mechanic once games like Star citizen or Elite get going, and their player base shrinks. CCP allows far too many griefer's to play this game and should create a duel that restricts variables as you requested, such as duel to hull only, or armor, etc... basically a setting when you set up the duel that restricts the fight to that variable. That way you can adjust your play styles, meet new players and assure a balance. They do it for contracts, why not honor.
The PVP in this game is a total joke, just exploit after exploit and more boring than PVE.
If you have found an exploit in PVP, please file a petition to CCP customer support about it, because exploiting the game is against the rules.
And if you're looking for 'honour', then yes, you are playing the wrong game. EVE is primarily player-driven, the mechanics and content just create the sandbox and tools with which we create our own balance. As a solo PVP'er who does quite well myself, I can tell you that if you can't accept the risks and challenges that come with solo PVP in this single-shard sandbox MMO, which are high, then you are doing it wrong. The PVP in this game is excellent, lrn2play, or **** off to star citizen.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
183
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 06:48:35 -
[825] - Quote
Needs more cowbell. |
Hiasa Kite
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
35
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 07:25:14 -
[826] - Quote
Race Rocket wrote:I completely agree with you.
CCP will have to create a balanced PVP solo mechanic once games like Star citizen or Elite get going, and their player base shrinks. CCP allows far too many griefer's to play this game and should create a duel that restricts variables as you requested, such as duel to hull only, or armor, etc... basically a setting when you set up the duel that restricts the fight to that variable. That way you can adjust your play styles, meet new players and assure a balance. They do it for contracts, why not honor.
The PVP in this game is a total joke, just exploit after exploit and more boring than PVE. EVE IS about the unfair fights and one's ability to avoid them when they see they're going to lose versus their ability to push when they see they're going to win.
If you want fair, structured fights, there' s a multitude of PvP games out there that suit your wishes. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3178
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 09:46:47 -
[827] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I keep a modicum of faith that it can grow outside of its niche (as CCP never messed up expanding PvE because they never expanded PvE), but so far the odds are 5:1 in favor of death over expansion beyond the niche. If EVE changes to be more inclusive, it is no longer EVE, so it's dead anyway. If it EXPANDS to be more inclusive, however, it can still be EVE, but with something else added on. It's the same difference between Ferrari changing what it makes entirely from fast exotic sports cars to family saloons and wagons, where they cut out the exotic audience, or continuing production on the exotics but ADDING family saloons and wagons, whereby they continue to attract exotic customers but also attract new customers.
That's the whole point. You know, Lamborghini started up manufacturing tractors...
There's many people playing EVE whose interests don't include exploding player stuff, and CCP has been ignoring that for years. They (and almost 99% of players) see that attitude as a liability
"Uh, uh, he doesn't wants to come beat the living lights out of us! He's a misfit freak!"
No my friend, no. Maybe he wants to put some laxative in your breakfast cereal. Maybe he wants to bribe your landowner to cut your water for three days...
There's more than boxing in the world. There's also chessboxing, and even chess.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
11
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 10:11:33 -
[828] - Quote
What is wrong ? Hum...
It is not a question of the grieving aspect of EVE, I think that new players would be able to go over it... if there wasn't any killmails. After all, people hate lose, and so refuse to have a bad history. It wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't permanent or if it was under the control of the said player, but syndication and API don't permit that. The solution is simple : CCP should give an option to hide the loser name in a lossmail (it would be a trade-off : your name would be hidden in a killmail too) but the corp/alliance name should remain in all cases (for obvious reasons). I think that PVP should get a real boost and it should attract players who was reluctant until then because there is a way to not have to suffer of a permanent record, until they think they are ready.
Some few others things :
- Long history of bad nerfs and bad choices : It affects the reputation of the game. When you hear about WIS, or the "Fix what isn't broken" standard CCP policy, or if you encounter a bittervet who will explain why this game is doomed, why a new player would remain into EVE ? I do hope that CCP will take advantage of his new addon policy to stop that and rebuild his reputation.
- Plex prices : People who have time but low wallet can play with Plex, but their price is raising, it make it more and more difficult to buy them. The problem is the IRL price who don't make any sense : 20 Gé¼ instead of 15 Gé¼ like a standard subscription ? No wonder that the ISK price can only go up.
- No translations or too long to release them : Seriously, is it so hard to release spanish/italian/etc ? The french translation would be a good thing FIVE YEARS AGO while there was still the TCF alliance and stuff who could do advertising to attract new players, not today as it is too late. Just forget the modules and release multiple translations already.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8891
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 11:46:24 -
[829] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:That's the whole point. You know, Lamborghini started up manufacturing tractors... There's many people playing EVE whose interests don't include exploding player stuff, and CCP has been ignoring that for years. They (and almost 99% of players) see that attitude as a liability "Uh, uh, he doesn't wants to come beat the living lights out of us! He's a misfit freak!" No my friend, no. Maybe he wants to put some laxative in your breakfast cereal. Maybe he wants to bribe your landowner to cut your water for three days... There's more than boxing in the world. There's also chessboxing, and even chess.
This attitude is actually pretty standard, but the fact is that it's really just a dodge. I have little interest in exploding player stuff and the game, CCP and the game's community treat me just fine. Being a misfit freak has nothing to do with whether or not you want to engage in 'pew pew' pvp or not.
It has everything to do with the personality of the player, and many times people have personalities incompatible with this game (but rather than understand that, they think it's the game's fault). THIS is what I and others post about, not whether or not you wanna wag your epeen by shooting other folks. It's not PVP vs PVE it's "players that actually like what EVE is" vs the "oh, EVE could be so much better IF ONLY... and EVE better hurry because X new game is coming!" crowd.
Too many posters try to hide behind that "you just want me to play your way/you just want easy kills" lie to salve their own egos, they don't know how to deal with the fact that their are many of us who are PVE focused players and feel the exact same way about the game as many of (but by no means all of) the PVPrs do. I say not all because some pvp're are worse carebears than actual carebears are.
No one (that actually likes EVE) wants EVE to fail. No one wants CCP to broke. No one wants EVE to not change and Evolve, but some of us what the CORE of EVE it's spirit, what it means to stay intact and the "expand to a wider audience" crap has never been compatible with that.
EVE should be the best high quality niche genre game possible, it should appeal firstly and fore-mostly to the kinds of people who already like it and it's concept. Going beyond that would water down the game, burn off it's edge in favor of the nasty blandness the rest of the game (especially MMO) world has fallen in to. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3178
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 13:38:01 -
[830] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:That's the whole point. You know, Lamborghini started up manufacturing tractors... There's many people playing EVE whose interests don't include exploding player stuff, and CCP has been ignoring that for years. They (and almost 99% of players) see that attitude as a liability "Uh, uh, he doesn't wants to come beat the living lights out of us! He's a misfit freak!" No my friend, no. Maybe he wants to put some laxative in your breakfast cereal. Maybe he wants to bribe your landowner to cut your water for three days... There's more than boxing in the world. There's also chessboxing, and even chess. This attitude is actually pretty standard, but the fact is that it's really just a dodge. I have little interest in exploding player stuff and the game, CCP and the game's community treat me just fine. Being a misfit freak has nothing to do with whether or not you want to engage in 'pew pew' pvp or not. It has everything to do with the personality of the player, and many times people have personalities incompatible with this game (but rather than understand that, they think it's the game's fault). THIS is what I and others post about, not whether or not you wanna wag your epeen by shooting other folks. It's not PVP vs PVE it's "players that actually like what EVE is" vs the "oh, EVE could be so much better IF ONLY... and EVE better hurry because X new game is coming!" crowd. Too many posters try to hide behind that "you just want me to play your way/you just want easy kills" lie to salve their own egos, they don't know how to deal with the fact that their are many of us who are PVE focused players and feel the exact same way about the game as many of (but by no means all of) the PVPrs do. I say not all because some pvp're are worse carebears than actual carebears are. No one (that actually likes EVE) wants EVE to fail. No one wants CCP to broke. No one wants EVE to not change and Evolve, but some of us what the CORE of EVE it's spirit, what it means to stay intact and the "expand to a wider audience" crap has never been compatible with that. EVE should be the best high quality niche genre game possible, it should appeal firstly and fore-mostly to the kinds of people who already like it and it's concept. Going beyond that would water down the game, burn off it's edge in favor of the nasty blandness the rest of the game (especially MMO) world has fallen in to.
All that fails against a single fact: who is paying the game?
Which boils down to who is buying PLEX from CCP, and who is paying subscriptions rather than buying PLEX from players.
And, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that the people doing that it's not the die hard veterans -all in all, didn't 40% of all players end up being "raven levelers"? Why don't give them something simialr but better... more EVE... rather than go head over heels with "the essence" so the 10% of retention becomes, woo-hoo, a whole 15%? Do you think EVE can be sustainable without 80% of the people currently paying for it?
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8891
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 14:51:34 -
[831] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
All that fails against a single fact: who is paying the game?
Which boils down to who is buying PLEX from CCP, and who is paying subscriptions rather than buying PLEX from players.
And, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that the people doing that it's not the die hard veterans -all in all, didn't 40% of all players end up being "raven levelers"? Why don't give them something simialr but better... more EVE... rather than go head over heels with "the essence" so the 10% of retention becomes, woo-hoo, a whole 15%? Do you think EVE can be sustainable without 80% of the people currently paying for it?
You talk of EVE as it if has already exceeded the average lifespan of a western mmo. I find that the majority of people who obsess about "sustainability" are the ones who are trying to use the issue as a wedge to get CCP to make the game into what they want. I've been here 7 years and don't see EVE dying any time soon. However, if it does, big whoop, it's a video game, no matter how much I love it.
The preception that CCP isn't giving anything to some large group of people while giving all this stuff to pvp types is false. When I started, much of the PVE activities that exist and pay out didn't even exist or existed in a different way. LVL 5s were new, their was no faction warfare (thus no FW missions), null anomalies were these randomly spawning things , many anoms (like the named hubs) and signature complexes we have now didn't exist, Incursions didn't exist, Wormholes (and thus wormhole PVE) didn't exist. Marauders didn't exist, missions were a pain to run because of the lack of UI information, mining ships were new (before people were mining with other ships) etc etc etc.
As a PVE player, i've never had so much to do or had so much fun in EVE as I have now, still trying to get a grip on burner missions.
One last thing is that you don't seem to understand that PLEx bring CCP more cash per purchase than a sub does lol. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
94
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 15:08:53 -
[832] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE should be the best high quality niche genre game possible, it should appeal firstly and fore-mostly to the kinds of people who already like it and it's concept. Going beyond that would water down the game, burn off it's edge in favor of the nasty blandness the rest of the game (especially MMO) world has fallen in to.
In context of titles like WoW or Rift your stance is understandable and more or less correct, but there is also the other side, represented by titles like Ryzom or the first iteration of D3, which are too exclusive.
Lets not forget we are aleady in a niche^3 (mmo, space, ffa pvp), it should atleast be very carefully weighted if we really want to have the "players being mean to eachother because they can and it is profitable" niche to be included, and how strong.
I do really think this is more a nrds vs normal paranoia concept, maybe a bit more egocentric in this thread. |
Justice Zeta
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 15:18:16 -
[833] - Quote
It's funny when people expect honour in a computer game. It's just pixels ffs. This isn't pistols at dawn. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
3178
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 15:35:07 -
[834] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
All that fails against a single fact: who is paying the game?
Which boils down to who is buying PLEX from CCP, and who is paying subscriptions rather than buying PLEX from players.
And, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that the people doing that it's not the die hard veterans -all in all, didn't 40% of all players end up being "raven levelers"? Why don't give them something simialr but better... more EVE... rather than go head over heels with "the essence" so the 10% of retention becomes, woo-hoo, a whole 15%? Do you think EVE can be sustainable without 80% of the people currently paying for it?
You talk of EVE as it if has already exceeded the average lifespan of a western mmo. I find that the majority of people who obsess about "sustainability" are the ones who are trying to use the issue as a wedge to get CCP to make the game into what they want. I've been here 7 years and don't see EVE dying any time soon. However, if it does, big whoop, it's a video game, no matter how much I love it. The preception that CCP isn't giving anything to some large group of people while giving all this stuff to pvp types is false. When I started, much of the PVE activities that exist and pay out didn't even exist or existed in a different way. LVL 5s were new, their was no faction warfare (thus no FW missions), null anomalies were these randomly spawning things , many anoms (like the named hubs) and signature complexes we have now didn't exist, Incursions didn't exist, Wormholes (and thus wormhole PVE) didn't exist. Marauders didn't exist, missions were a pain to run because of the lack of UI information, mining ships were new (before people were mining with other ships) etc etc etc. As a PVE player, i've never had so much to do or had so much fun in EVE as I have now, still trying to get a grip on burner missions. One last thing is that you don't seem to understand that PLEx bring CCP more cash per purchase than a sub does lol.
Who purchases PLEX from CCP, and why? The reason to spend 18 on what gives the same game time as 15, it's to get something else... say, ISK.
So, who buys those "ISK tokens" legally from CCP? New players? Veteran players...?
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
|
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 16:30:26 -
[835] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
All that fails against a single fact: who is paying the game?
Which boils down to who is buying PLEX from CCP, and who is paying subscriptions rather than buying PLEX from players.
And, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that the people doing that it's not the die hard veterans -all in all, didn't 40% of all players end up being "raven levelers"? Why don't give them something simialr but better... more EVE... rather than go head over heels with "the essence" so the 10% of retention becomes, woo-hoo, a whole 15%? Do you think EVE can be sustainable without 80% of the people currently paying for it?
You talk of EVE as it if has already exceeded the average lifespan of a western mmo. I find that the majority of people who obsess about "sustainability" are the ones who are trying to use the issue as a wedge to get CCP to make the game into what they want. I've been here 7 years and don't see EVE dying any time soon. However, if it does, big whoop, it's a video game, no matter how much I love it. The preception that CCP isn't giving anything to some large group of people while giving all this stuff to pvp types is false. When I started, much of the PVE activities that exist and pay out didn't even exist or existed in a different way. LVL 5s were new, their was no faction warfare (thus no FW missions), null anomalies were these randomly spawning things , many anoms (like the named hubs) and signature complexes we have now didn't exist, Incursions didn't exist, Wormholes (and thus wormhole PVE) didn't exist. Marauders didn't exist, missions were a pain to run because of the lack of UI information, mining ships were new (before people were mining with other ships) etc etc etc. As a PVE player, i've never had so much to do or had so much fun in EVE as I have now, still trying to get a grip on burner missions. One last thing is that you don't seem to understand that PLEx bring CCP more cash per purchase than a sub does lol. Who purchases PLEX from CCP, and why? The reason to spend 18 on what gives the same game time as 15, it's to get something else... say, ISK. So, who buys those "ISK tokens" legally from CCP? New players? Veteran players...?
Well, the vet players like to brag how they haven't paid a cent for the game in years.
So I would guess that the new player's are buying the plex.
So what you are left with are vets who don't contribute financially to the game making life miserable for the new players.
So the new players leave (and the vets say we didn't need that carebear anyway and all rejoice and celebrate)
But they also take the money with them and CCP loses out.
CCP...I applaud giving the power to the player base but at some point you have to realize that your current stable of bitter vets are going to drive it under if you leave it as is. And they love to preach the cycle of abuse thing as defense. I was treated this way so I have to treat everyone else like this.
For the love of all that is decent CCP......Stop the cycle of abuse being perpetrated by the vets.
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Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 17:45:19 -
[836] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Well, the vet players like to brag how they haven't paid a cent for the game in years. So I would guess that the new player's are buying the plex. So what you are left with are vets who don't contribute financially to the game making life miserable for the new players. So the new players leave (and the vets say we didn't need that carebear anyway and all rejoice and celebrate)
But they also take the money with them and CCP loses out.
CCP...I applaud giving the power to the player base but at some point you have to realize that your current stable of bitter vets are going to drive it under if you leave it as is. And they love to preach the cycle of abuse thing as defense. I was treated this way so I have to treat everyone else like this.
For the love of all that is decent CCP......Stop the cycle of abuse being perpetrated by the vets.
You fail at logic and reasoning.
You take a comment that's about a group of people: Well, the vet players like to brag how they haven't paid a cent for the game in years.
You then assume this comment is valid for 100% of the people. It's not btw, as I pay my sub with cash and have bought lots of PLEX for money already.
Then you base an assumption on that comment: So I would guess that the new player's are buying the plex.
Then you take that assumption and turn it into an imaginary fact: So what you are left with are vets who don't contribute financially to the game making life miserable for the new players.
And then you come up with a conclusion, which is based on an assumption based on a random comment you generalised onto *every single vet* in this game.
Quote:CCP...I applaud giving the power to the player base but at some point you have to realize that your current stable of bitter vets are going to drive it under if you leave it as is. And they love to preach the cycle of abuse thing as defense. I was treated this way so I have to treat everyone else like this.
For the love of all that is decent CCP......Stop the cycle of abuse being perpetrated by the vets.
You are poor.
Mentally.
And you are a coward hiding behind a forum alt.
Post with your main so we can kick his candy ass. |
Nevil Oscillator
46
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 17:46:02 -
[837] - Quote
I'm not sure about taking issue with players actions to CCP, players form groups for mutual advantage, anything they do is either working for them or it isn't. That includes knowing every aspect of the game in detail to catch out newbies I guess. If that is the most profitable way to use that knowledge, I am not so sure. So go ahead and bet on it.
Nevil Oscillator say N O to Space Crime
|
Sol Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 17:49:04 -
[838] - Quote
Justice Zeta wrote:It's funny when people expect honour in a computer game. It's just pixels ffs. This isn't pistols at dawn. You know who wins these fights?
The cheaters.
The upside was that the losers couldn't whine about it, because they didn't respawn in a clonevat. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 18:09:38 -
[839] - Quote
Sol Project wrote:Syn Shi wrote:Well, the vet players like to brag how they haven't paid a cent for the game in years. So I would guess that the new player's are buying the plex. So what you are left with are vets who don't contribute financially to the game making life miserable for the new players. So the new players leave (and the vets say we didn't need that carebear anyway and all rejoice and celebrate)
But they also take the money with them and CCP loses out.
CCP...I applaud giving the power to the player base but at some point you have to realize that your current stable of bitter vets are going to drive it under if you leave it as is. And they love to preach the cycle of abuse thing as defense. I was treated this way so I have to treat everyone else like this.
For the love of all that is decent CCP......Stop the cycle of abuse being perpetrated by the vets.
You fail at logic and reasoning. You take a comment that's about a group of people: Well, the vet players like to brag how they haven't paid a cent for the game in years.You then assume this comment is valid for 100% of the people. It's not btw, as I pay my sub with cash and have bought lots of PLEX for money already. Then you base an assumption on that comment: So I would guess that the new player's are buying the plex.Then you take that assumption and turn it into an imaginary fact: So what you are left with are vets who don't contribute financially to the game making life miserable for the new players.And then you come up with a conclusion, which is based on an assumption based on a random comment you generalised onto *every single vet* in this game. Quote:CCP...I applaud giving the power to the player base but at some point you have to realize that your current stable of bitter vets are going to drive it under if you leave it as is. And they love to preach the cycle of abuse thing as defense. I was treated this way so I have to treat everyone else like this.
For the love of all that is decent CCP......Stop the cycle of abuse being perpetrated by the vets.
You are poor. Mentally. And you are a coward hiding behind a forum alt. Post with your main so we can kick his candy ass.
You take a comment that's about a group of people: Well, the vet players like to brag how they haven't paid a cent for the game in years.
You then assume this comment is invalid because of your own experience. It's not btw, as I pay my sub with cash and have bought lots of PLEX for money already.
Then you base an assumption on that comment: So I would guess that the vet player's are buying the plex because I am.
Then you take that assumption and turn it into an imaginary fact: So what you are left with are vets who contribute financially to the game and don't make life miserable for the new players.
And then you come up with a conclusion, which is based on my experience is this so everyone else has the same experience and if they didn't I will dismiss it.....because I can.
No need for insults so I will stop here. |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
700
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 18:58:20 -
[840] - Quote
I like the way eve is (was). Even as a new player bei9ng victimised myself, i thoroughly enjoyed the experience and the dark scaryness of it all. Without the **** players out there trying to screw me EvE would have been boring and i'd have left ages ago.
Grow a pair, this is the way things should be.
[u]BUDDY TRIALS - 21days + ISK bonus + Starting Assistance :[/u]
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=77facad8-d941-45ad-95bc-c1ec90919b6b&action=buddy
Feel free to contact me with questions :)
|
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6355
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 19:09:16 -
[841] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:I like the way eve is (was). Even as a new player bei9ng victimised myself, i thoroughly enjoyed the experience and the dark scaryness of it all. Without the **** players out there trying to screw me EvE would have been boring and i'd have left ages ago.
Grow a pair, this is the way things should be. actually the op posted in the thread again and it was an enlightened and encouraging post.
yeah your right though, for the first yer of play i was prey but i fell in love with the edgy fear that new eden instils
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
Race Rocket
Rockets and Missile
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 00:34:12 -
[842] - Quote
I just love the FANBOY go away trolls from people who obviously spend far too much time playing a game and even more time trolling the forum with 5000 likes. Really, get a weight set and lift or something useful.
So let's look at the fun factor of EVE PVP combat for new players.
1) Spend 4 to 6 months of subscription time to even get skilled enough to fly a frigate competitively solo. 2) Spend hours and hours of play time doing PVE content to get money just to lose your cool ride to an unbalanced PVP encounter in 30 seconds, because the guy hangs out in Jita with nothing else to do with his time but scam new players for kicks.
Sure, sounds great......
and you don't think this is old by now?
I play just part time and only because a friend gave me some plex to do it, and YES I play other more balanced games.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10464
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 00:45:44 -
[843] - Quote
Race Rocket wrote:I just love the FANBOY go away trolls from people who obviously spend far too much time playing a game and even more time trolling the forum with 5000 likes. Really, get a weight set and lift or something useful.
So let's look at the fun factor of EVE PVP combat for new players.
1) Spend 4 to 6 months of subscription time to even get skilled enough to fly a frigate competitively solo. 2) Spend hours and hours of play time doing PVE content to get money just to lose your cool ride to an unbalanced PVP encounter in 30 seconds, because the guy hangs out in Jita with nothing else to do with his time but scam new players for kicks.
Sure, sounds great......
and you don't think this is old by now?
I play just part time and only because a friend gave me some plex to do it, and YES I play other more balanced games.
Fabulous Rod alt detected.
Gtfo.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
|
Remiel Pollard
Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds
5838
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 01:19:59 -
[844] - Quote
Race Rocket wrote:I just love the FANBOY go away trolls from people who obviously spend far too much time playing a game and even more time trolling the forum with 5000 likes. Really, get a weight set and lift or something useful.
If you want my comeback, you'll have to wipe it off your mum's face.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 03:52:00 -
[845] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:That's the whole point. You know, Lamborghini started up manufacturing tractors... There's many people playing EVE whose interests don't include exploding player stuff, and CCP has been ignoring that for years. They (and almost 99% of players) see that attitude as a liability "Uh, uh, he doesn't wants to come beat the living lights out of us! He's a misfit freak!" No my friend, no. Maybe he wants to put some laxative in your breakfast cereal. Maybe he wants to bribe your landowner to cut your water for three days... There's more than boxing in the world. There's also chessboxing, and even chess. This attitude is actually pretty standard, but the fact is that it's really just a dodge. I have little interest in exploding player stuff and the game, CCP and the game's community treat me just fine. Being a misfit freak has nothing to do with whether or not you want to engage in 'pew pew' pvp or not. It has everything to do with the personality of the player, and many times people have personalities incompatible with this game (but rather than understand that, they think it's the game's fault). THIS is what I and others post about, not whether or not you wanna wag your epeen by shooting other folks. It's not PVP vs PVE it's "players that actually like what EVE is" vs the "oh, EVE could be so much better IF ONLY... and EVE better hurry because X new game is coming!" crowd. Too many posters try to hide behind that "you just want me to play your way/you just want easy kills" lie to salve their own egos, they don't know how to deal with the fact that their are many of us who are PVE focused players and feel the exact same way about the game as many of (but by no means all of) the PVPrs do. I say not all because some pvp're are worse carebears than actual carebears are. No one (that actually likes EVE) wants EVE to fail. No one wants CCP to broke. No one wants EVE to not change and Evolve, but some of us what the CORE of EVE it's spirit, what it means to stay intact and the "expand to a wider audience" crap has never been compatible with that. EVE should be the best high quality niche genre game possible, it should appeal firstly and fore-mostly to the kinds of people who already like it and it's concept. Going beyond that would water down the game, burn off it's edge in favor of the nasty blandness the rest of the game (especially MMO) world has fallen in to. All that fails against a single fact: who is paying the game? Which boils down to who is buying PLEX from CCP, and who is paying subscriptions rather than buying PLEX from players. And, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that the people doing that it's not the die hard veterans -all in all, didn't 40% of all players end up being "raven levelers"? Why don't give them something simialr but better... more EVE... rather than go head over heels with "the essence" so the 10% of retention becomes, woo-hoo, a whole 15%? Do you think EVE can be sustainable without 80% of the people currently paying for it?
Which is why PLEX has always been a bad thing. If people mass accounts by trading in ISK for RL money vis a vis gametime, then they have a lot more weight and a lot more say in the game's structure, because keeping them happy, when they're the cash cow, that's what's important. If they want Eve to be more free of risk, CCP would be forced by the MBA's to do it. PLEX has always been the pandora's box, as all pay-to-win models are.
Dollars equal votes, in any business or election or economy ever. With the ability of people to mass accounts, their voice suddenly becomes a lot more powerful than if everyone only had one account. "Keeping up with the Joneses" is a very real thing.
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Nevil Oscillator
46
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 06:23:29 -
[846] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:
Which is why PLEX has always been a bad thing. If people mass accounts by trading in ISK for RL money vis a vis gametime, then they have a lot more weight and a lot more say in the game's structure, because keeping them happy, when they're the cash cow, that's what's important. If they want Eve to be more free of risk, CCP would be forced by the MBA's to do it. PLEX has always been the pandora's box, as all pay-to-win models are.
Dollars equal votes, in any business or election or economy ever. With the ability of people to mass accounts, their voice suddenly becomes a lot more powerful than if everyone only had one account. "Keeping up with the Joneses" is a very real thing from the player end. As a consumer base increases in size, individual customers matter less and less as long as a reasonable majority are pampered, you can **** off the minority with things they don't like, because they suddenly stop being "representative of your client base". Mass accounts means that the majority doesn't have to be nearly as big, and it could even be a minority, because if they as individuals "pay" a lot more for Eve, they have more value than a majority who don't mass accounts. This means that the majority in this case can be pissed off, because they aren't the cash cow.
I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions about what other players are doing, what they want and why without any statistical evidence to back it up.
Nevil Oscillator say N O to Space Crime
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2558
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 10:23:44 -
[847] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
6372
|
Posted - 2014.11.03 10:49:39 -
[848] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions about what other players are doing, what they want and why without any statistical evidence to back it up.
this is general discussion, you dont let silly things like evidence an statistics get in the way of a good hysterical rant about the games imminent death
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Nevil Oscillator
47
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Posted - 2014.11.03 12:22:15 -
[849] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:
I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions about what other players are doing, what they want and why without any statistical evidence to back it up.
this is general discussion, you dont let silly things like evidence an statistics get in the way of a good hysterical rant about the games imminent death
Your right I shouldn't expect everyone to live up to my standards of stating clearly if my comment is objective or based entirely on my own paranoia. So let me state clearly here that I do occasionally do both as far as my paranoia knows.
Nevil Oscillator say N O to Space Crime
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Mithandra
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
217
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Posted - 2014.11.03 16:43:07 -
[850] - Quote
The one thing wrong with eve is each individual players thinks their way is the only way.
Me included
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
6
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Posted - 2014.11.03 18:49:27 -
[851] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Which is why PLEX has always been a bad thing. If people mass accounts by trading in ISK for RL money vis a vis gametime, then they have a lot more weight and a lot more say in the game's structure, because keeping them happy, when they're the cash cow, that's what's important.
Most probably i just misunderstood you, but how are players that never spend RL currency on the game CCPs cash cow? Or get the developers to believe they were? While it is true that in eve an additional account, regardless of how it is maintained, can give you more ingame power than e.g. spending that ISK on expensive gear, it should hardly improve whining. (In the context of this post i define whining as the activity of producing text for the purpose of influencing game development in one's favor.) When trying to use one's account number directly to add weight to one's argumentation, CCP staff can simply check how many of those accounts were plexed and how many were actually paid for. Also whining can't really be multiboxed at all. As it is now, to simulate multiple players sharing one's opinion (or seemingly sharing that of your opposition while acting unlikeable) one only needs 1 account and to cycle the additional characters on it. And the text production for that purpose is near impossible to automate, thus creating a hard cap on whining speed for a single player. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3002
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:10:19 -
[852] - Quote
Highsec and super caps are the two most wrong things with eve.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:29:53 -
[853] - Quote
deleted.
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
7024
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:31:48 -
[854] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Highsec and super caps are the two most wrong things with eve.
Grr, highsec.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2014.11.03 22:31:54 -
[855] - Quote
Violet Hurst wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Which is why PLEX has always been a bad thing. If people mass accounts by trading in ISK for RL money vis a vis gametime, then they have a lot more weight and a lot more say in the game's structure, because keeping them happy, when they're the cash cow, that's what's important. Most probably i just misunderstood you, but how are players that never spend RL currency on the game CCPs cash cow? Or get the developers to believe they were? While it is true that in eve an additional account, regardless of how it is maintained, can give you more ingame power than e.g. spending that ISK on expensive gear, it should hardly improve whining. (In the context of this post i define whining as the activity of producing text for the purpose of influencing game development in one's favor.) When trying to use one's account number directly to add weight to one's argumentation, CCP staff can simply check how many of those accounts were plexed and how many were actually paid for. Also whining can't really be multiboxed at all. As it is now, to simulate multiple players sharing one's opinion (or seemingly sharing that of your opposition while acting unlikeable) one only needs 1 account and to cycle the additional characters on it. And the text production for that purpose is near impossible to automate, thus creating a hard cap on whining speed for a single player.
RL money being poured into Eve wouldn't exist without those people who exist to trade ISK for PLEX. Without people selling ISK for what is de factor ISK for RL money, there wouldn't be a market, and hence, no flow of money into CCP. PLEX buyers are the cash cow, because if they didn't exist, people wouldn't be buying excess PLEX to trade in game to other players in the first place.
[quote] So 50 retreivers and 1 ganker walk into a bar, and the ganker turns to all the retreivers and says "I know how to play this game, you're wrong, now give me your money and then let me blow you up". That's the joke. [/quote]
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1312
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Posted - 2014.11.03 23:01:45 -
[856] - Quote
Justice Zeta wrote:It's funny when people expect honour in a computer game. It's just pixels ffs. This isn't pistols at dawn.
I can't help but hear the musical pocket watch from "For a Few Dollars More". Perhaps CCP should make this the dueling music. PVP in Eve will never be about a "fair fight".
Even or "fair" fights happen on occasion but likely due to poor planning on at least one of the pilots. Maybe duels or test fights between friends could be one exception. Once people learn and accept how the game play actually works rather than how they want it to work Eve can be a fun game. People that insist on playing Eve like it's WoW with spaceships will continue to rage about how "unfair" it was that their ship was destroyed and that they were killed using an "exploit". |
Clair Bear
Perkone Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.11.04 03:57:36 -
[857] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote: RL money being poured into Eve wouldn't exist without those people who exist to trade ISK for PLEX. Without people selling ISK for what is de factor ISK for RL money, there wouldn't be a market, and hence, no flow of money into CCP. PLEX buyers are the cash cow, because if they didn't exist, people wouldn't be buying excess PLEX to trade in game to other players in the first place.
PLEX sellers are the only ones that matter. The grinding competition people are having to obtain the PLEX from the market is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if someone pays 850M for a PLEX or 150M. At the end of the day, CCP receives roughly $20 no matter how much ISK changed hands in game.
You could even argue that the more grinding happens (read: the more ISK each PLEX buys) the less PLEX are bought to meet people's goals. You can get a freaking fitted carrier or blingy mission boat for mowing someone's RL lawn! Back in the day of ghost training and 30 day timecards if someone wanted that kind of boat violence they'd be forking over hundreds. Or personally grinding for a month. |
Nevil Oscillator
48
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Posted - 2014.11.04 14:19:05 -
[858] - Quote
Someone wants to buy something that costs 3 billion ISK and use real money to do it. If PLEX is 500 mil then they have trade 6, if PLEX is 1 billion then they only have to trade 3.
You trade PLEX on market you get ISK, in contracts I guess you could ask for other things but that is the only fact about it that I am sure of, they want your ISK. Is that so hard to believe, looking at the efforts some players put in to taking it from you by PVP force and AFK mining or manufacturing things that you want to buy ?
Nevil Oscillator say N O to Space Crime
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The Tomonator
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
0
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Posted - 2014.11.04 14:35:20 -
[859] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:[quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai][quote=Jenn aSide][quote=Indahmawar Fazmarai]
Mass accounts means that the majority doesn't have to be nearly as big, and it could even be a minority, because if they as individuals "pay" a lot more for Eve, they have more value than a majority who don't mass accounts. This means that the majority in this case can be pissed off, because they aren't the cash cow.
Unless the actions of pissed off majority pisses off the minority, in which case the fall will be quick and sudden if that minority reacts. Thus, a very vulnerable position, and unwise business sense. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3010
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Posted - 2014.11.04 14:50:25 -
[860] - Quote
Isboxer is okay until ccp says it's not.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Improve the forums, support this idea:
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
699
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Posted - 2014.11.04 15:17:08 -
[861] - Quote
The ultimate summing up of the answer to this thread. People not letting themselves have fun in EVE is what's wrong with it. Take joy in the explosion of others. Take joy in the explosion of the self. The BOOM is primal and beautiful, it is what makes everything go. If you get caught in the blast, well that sucks for right now... but that doesn't stop you from going forth and spreading the BOOM to someone else. Stop taking this so seriously, that's what RL is for. |
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