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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:23:00 -
[61]
And since there's no reason not to, I will explain in more detail why I did not yell "scam" at any point during this charade.
I guessed early on at a 1 in 8 chance of EIB being a scam, back before all the drama happened, and before a lot of the suspicious things took place (along with the audit with very questionable results). That chance reached in my mind about 5 in 8 by the time the video was posted.
Imagine if I had gone along with Currin and yelled that it was a scam. In my mind, there was a 7 in 8 chance I would be wrong. Imagine the embarassment if I had yelled scam and it wasn't? Imagine how stupid I would have looked if I yelled scam for 4 months and it never happened? Especially as in my mind, the chance was relatively low.
The chance rose, but I stuck to the logic. I figured it would be better to stay undecided and knock down arguments on both sides (both against it being a scam and for it being a scam) and try to encourage good discussion rather than the reposting of old talking points. I avoided encouraging investment: it had always sounded too fishy to me to invest in.
And in the end, I think it worked out.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Kristin Bergljot
Minmatar Marcionite Trading and Reclamation
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:26:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sir Juri Dark dosnt matter how much you debate it, some were right some like you were wrong.
I do believe that Dark stated a few posts above the he was wrong.
He even said so in bold. Whatever my feelings about him (and no one should care, I'm way too new at the game), that takes a good amount of guts.
... not to mention his almost conciliatory post addressed to Currin. That's a decent helping of crow right there. :)
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:26:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sir Juri But I have to give the point to currin me and others that saw this for the scam it was. Now atleast tell me you dont trust EMFI to 110% to?
Currin had a great deal of evidence against the EIBI.
One of the biggest bits was the promise of mysterious high return with no explanation, and a total lack of any public explanation of money-making methods.
Auditing and investigation shed little light on this matter: this is one of the biggest things Currin had going for him.
EMFI, on the other hand, has every single share he owns publicly known and gives relatively low dividends that are not only believable but of which every last ISK is accounted for.
Even Currin had evidence when he called "scam" on the EIB. Circumstantial, but still evidence.
You're calling scam on the EMFI with zero evidence.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:28:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/08/2006 03:31:56 Oh, and one more comment to Currin.
While obviously you'll never get anyone to trust this character of yours with ISK, you'll most definitely have more trust in the future. If anything, I should take back that comment about you using an alt in the future: your main is now trusted enough due to your lucky but calculated gamble that you will be the first scammer in history to be trusted for anything.
An honor? I don't know, but a first. And a heckuva job.
I don't think even I could go scam 30 billion and then get people to trust me afterwards. And I don't mean that as an insult to those who wish to trust you: there is good reason to trust Currin, at least with information. He's proven himself worthy, at least once. So as I post this, I figure I should ask Currin a few questions.
What made you decide to run your scam?
At what point during your scam did you decide to call scam on EIB?
Did you ever think there was a chance EIB wasn't a scam? Be honest here.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Darkon Gatland
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:32:00 -
[65]
Oh dear DS. Let me get this straight, you advocated for EIB but you didn't buy any shares or invest any cash and you were unharmed by said scam?
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Ricdics
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:32:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Sir Juri Crazy give it up, post with your main!
I will assume this is a joke
I must be the only person in Eve, willing to show all 9 of his active characters to the public. Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:34:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/08/2006 03:35:08
Originally by: Darkon Gatland Oh dear DS. Let me get this straight, you advocated for EIB but you didn't buy any shares or invest any cash and you were unharmed by said scam?
I did not advocate the EIB.
Primarily, I defended the EIB against accusations that I thought were baseless.
I thought it was unfair to call EIB a scam based on the current information. More fair was to consider the possibility that it could be a scam.
I thought that calling EIB a scam a month, two months, three months ago based on the evidence available was simply unfair.
I still believe I was right: the evidence was not enough to make a full, trustworthy decision. So I didn't.
I don't believe I ever suggested that people invest in the EIB. Doing so would be simply dishonest.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Sir Juri
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:34:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Dark Shikari And since there's no reason not to, I will explain in more detail why I did not yell "scam" at any point during this charade.
I guessed early on at a 1 in 8 chance of EIB being a scam, back before all the drama happened, and before a lot of the suspicious things took place (along with the audit with very questionable results). That chance reached in my mind about 5 in 8 by the time the video was posted.
Imagine if I had gone along with Currin and yelled that it was a scam. In my mind, there was a 7 in 8 chance I would be wrong. Imagine the embarassment if I had yelled scam and it wasn't? Imagine how stupid I would have looked if I yelled scam for 4 months and it never happened? Especially as in my mind, the chance was relatively low.
The chance rose, but I stuck to the logic. I figured it would be better to stay undecided and knock down arguments on both sides (both against it being a scam and for it being a scam) and try to encourage good discussion rather than the reposting of old talking points. I avoided encouraging investment: it had always sounded too fishy to me to invest in.
And in the end, I think it worked out.
Well goodluck with your fear of beeing wrong. All you do is telling us the score of the game after its been played. But this time however your trying to "fix" the score, you were supporting Cally and EMFI with napthalia even running investigations on which you then gave further support. whatever your allways "right"!?
damn need to make a new sig... |
Obaspacula
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:35:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Dentara Rast The only person involved was me. 1 Person. And that one character I used was Cally.
Not one person who supported the EIB, worked for the EIB, or was involved in anyway with the EIB was aware of my intentions.
I fooled everyone.
I win EVE.
This is why
Win MMO = Lose At Life, congradulations on the scam as i said, boo for your form. Things have a way of turning around, call it karma or whatever.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:37:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Sir Juri
Well goodluck with your fear of beeing wrong. All you do is telling us the score of the game after its been played. But this time however your trying to "fix" the score, you were supporting Cally and EMFI with napthalia even running investigations on which you then gave further support. whatever your allways "right"!?
How much ISK do you want to bet that EMFI is a scam?
Lets put a timer of two months on this for the "scam" to pan out.
How about 1 billion? 2 billion?
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Darkon Gatland
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:37:00 -
[71]
Ok. So are people accusing you of being "in on the job"? It's hard to work out seeing as i've not been following the events until recently and of course all the trolling etc.
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Darkon Gatland
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:38:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Sir Juri
Well goodluck with your fear of beeing wrong. All you do is telling us the score of the game after its been played. But this time however your trying to "fix" the score, you were supporting Cally and EMFI with napthalia even running investigations on which you then gave further support. whatever your allways "right"!?
How much ISK do you want to bet that EMFI is a scam?
Lets put a timer of two months on this for the "scam" to pan out.
How about 1 billion? 2 billion?
Should we be calling all of these "banks" scam houses just because a lot of peeps got humm dingered once/twice?
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:38:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Darkon Gatland Ok. So are people accusing you of being "in on the job"? It's hard to work out seeing as i've not been following the events until recently and of course all the trolling etc.
They're accusing EMFI, the auditor, of being in on the job.
Which is funny, considering EMFI never finished the audit, nor did EMFI ever publish any real positive information about the EIB from the audit.
In fact, I defended the EIB more than EMFI did, to be honest.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:39:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/08/2006 03:39:57
Originally by: Darkon Gatland
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Sir Juri
Well goodluck with your fear of beeing wrong. All you do is telling us the score of the game after its been played. But this time however your trying to "fix" the score, you were supporting Cally and EMFI with napthalia even running investigations on which you then gave further support. whatever your allways "right"!?
How much ISK do you want to bet that EMFI is a scam?
Lets put a timer of two months on this for the "scam" to pan out.
How about 1 billion? 2 billion?
Should we be calling all of these "banks" scam houses just because a lot of peeps got humm dingered once/twice?
Well I guess thats the crux of the argument.
Some people say that because A is a scam, this implies B is a scam, regardless of connection between A and B.
I say that's a bit silly.
I would not rule out the possibility of EMFI being a scam. For all I know, it could be. But I trust EMFI enough to invest my ISK with. And that's what matters.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Sir Juri
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:40:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 20/08/2006 03:35:08
Originally by: Darkon Gatland Oh dear DS. Let me get this straight, you advocated for EIB but you didn't buy any shares or invest any cash and you were unharmed by said scam?
I did not advocate the EIB.
Primarily, I defended the EIB against accusations that I thought were baseless.
I thought it was unfair to call EIB a scam based on the current information. More fair was to consider the possibility that it could be a scam.
I thought that calling EIB a scam a month, two months, three months ago based on the evidence available was simply unfair.
I still believe I was right: the evidence was not enough to make a full, trustworthy decision. So I didn't.
I don't believe I ever suggested that people invest in the EIB. Doing so would be simply dishonest.
If you cant gather enough "evidence" then you have to ask yourself "WHY!?" and the only conclusion and it was obvious was that it was a scam and cally wouldnt give you the info you needed. Investigation skills 4tw! hope you and EMFI future investigations doesnt rule in the accused's favor just cause they cant get enough info because it was beeing withheld by the accused
And you did advocate it, but then again you could argue that FOX news reporters are objective to
damn need to make a new sig... |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:41:00 -
[76]
Interestin information. I've gotten an answer to my earlier question: the question of where the missing cash that Dentara claims he stole came from.
Dentara claims that "some big alliances had a few hundred billion with him."
Believe it, or don't believe it. We'll probably find out anyways.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Treelox
Amarr Storm Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:43:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Treelox on 20/08/2006 03:45:32 just for the sake of clarity.....
while cally in his video called this a scam. His claims that only he was in on it. Plus stating in the video that he only decided to take the isk and run 2 months ago. That all the other workers, tellers, and directors of EIB/EIBI were not in on it.
By Callys own words it is in fact really a case of embezzlement, especially if Kal continues to make good on his word, and pay out to depositors,investors, and staff.
of course, the next week will tell. Plus it will be intresting to see how CCP reacts to someones claims of having stolen ingame assest that have a RL value of US$100,000, if converted to GTC and then ebayed.
Want to join the Storm? |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:43:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Sir Juri
If you cant gather enough "evidence" then you have to ask yourself "WHY!?" and the only conclusion and it was obvious was that it was a scam and cally wouldnt give you the info you needed.
Well, actually, the main reason EMFI couldn't get enough evidence was because Cally didn't log on!
It wasn't that Cally refused to tell him things, its just that he didn't log on enough for EMFI to get the info needed.
And thus, it was EMFI's job to say that the audit was incomplete and thus not reliable, which he did. Saying "ITS A SCAM" or "ITS NOT A SCAM" would have been completely dishonorable and wrong, simply because he did not have the information to make such a claim.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:44:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Treelox just for the sake of clarity.....
while cally in his video called this a scam. His claims that only he was in on it. Plus stating in the video that he only decided to take the isk and run 2 months ago. That all the other workers, tellers, and directors of EIB/EIBI were not in on it.
By Callys own words it is in fact really a case of embezzlement, especially if Kal continues to make good on his word, and pay out to depositors,investors, and staff.
I haven't watched the video, but from what I heard, didn't Dentara claim that Kal was his alt?
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Dentara Rast
Satan's Plague
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:44:00 -
[80]
You all should really stop pointing the finger at people. I am a master at manipulating people. I did just that. Every single event of this scam was planned and worked a charm
But lets get one thing clear. I am the scammer, not the EIB nor anyone else. I have stolen almost 300b from the EIB and almost 500b from large investors.
Like I said, you lot of numpties think you know it all, but all you have is a worthless opinion. Your opinions have no impact on EVE or anything that happens. So quit it.
Crown me as God in EVE and kiss my feet. Shower me with praise etc etc..
I left enough assets in the EIB to allow the directors to liquidate and reimburse ALL accounts. Current, savings, high interest savings, and small corporate accounts that is. So the EIB is capable of giving people their money back.
Its only the fat cats that are gonna suffer here. Unlucky guys. Lets see how the territorial maps shape up over the next few weeks
Think of me as a space Robin Hood - "steals from the rich and gives to himself" with my merry band of alts.
Currin was right about 2 things (well 1 and a half) The target (1 trillion isk) and that I used alts for my benefit. There is others in the EIB that are not me tho, but its not my problem now.
This one is for those that believe their opinion is actually even worth reading. Lets play out this scenario...
Watch this....
Loads of unimportant people have an opinion on something = nothing much happens
I post one line in a thread - BOOM EVE gets ****** up!!!
I win EVE.
Eve Just got Owned
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Kitty O'Shay
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:45:00 -
[81]
Remember, Dentara might not get to use much of that isk like he wants. He still has his court date, and still might wind up in jail for GBH. (Grievous bodily harm, i.e. he beat the crap out of someone.)
If that's the case, his Eve-billions won't be able to keep Bubba from reaming him raw a few times.
In the end, I think that might be the real reason for ending the EIB now. It was a good time to get out now, due to the mounting suspisions.
Also, it totally fits into how someone would wrap up their affairs with a jail sentence in their immediate future.
GL, Dentara, and don't drop your soap! --
1 in 10 chance to win a battleship! |
Darkon Gatland
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:45:00 -
[82]
Why do I get the feeling that this isn't over?
Why have one scam when you can have two?
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Sir Juri
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:50:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Treelox just for the sake of clarity.....
while cally in his video called this a scam. His claims that only he was in on it. Plus stating in the video that he only decided to take the isk and run 2 months ago. That all the other workers, tellers, and directors of EIB/EIBI were not in on it.
By Callys own words it is in fact really a case of embezzlement, especially if Kal continues to make good on his word, and pay out to depositors,investors, and staff.
wake up man, atleast one of the char running EIB is an alt of Cally. He says noone was in on it, but I still think nepthalia EMFI and who knows perhaps Dark (dont be naive) was in on it. And perhaps more ppl. I wouldnt trust EMFI at all or the chars running it or Dark's great judgement! nor omber or currin or any of them all, most of all alt's. ' Untill mechanics better then existing ones is implemented to the game to make it harder to scam, dont buy shares unless you expect to get scammed, only invest what you can afford to loose (like myself) and dont trust the so called best of EVE community like Dark napthalia and other "vets".
damn need to make a new sig... |
Kitty O'Shay
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:50:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Kitty O''Shay on 20/08/2006 03:52:28
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Kitty O'Shay Remember, Dentara might not get to use much of that isk like he wants. He still has his court date, and still might wind up in jail for GBH. (Grievous bodily harm, i.e. he beat the crap out of someone.)
Um, wasn't the whole jail thing a damn lie?
He admits to being in jail for a week or so, but timeline-wise it was before "Cally" went to jail. He alos says he's got a court date in the next week or so that could send him up the river for a good bit.
Edit: it's at the 10:00 mark in the vid. --
1 in 10 chance to win a battleship! |
Ricdics
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:50:00 -
[85]
For anyone that wants the link to the video, use eve search to find this thread, and the link should be in there. Will try to find it in my history and offer it to people in-game as the mods keep deleting any links here on the forums. Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
Ricdics
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:53:00 -
[86]
I wont provide the direct link, however it can be found on the Eve Wallstreet site. Use google to find this site and you will see the audio file there. Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:54:00 -
[87]
Well guys, as the drama is over, I'll hand out the final awards. I don't think its fair to give myself an award regardless of whether I deserve one, so I've removed mine.
* Best Picture: Dentara Rast * Best Leading Actor: Currin Trading * Best Supporting Actor: EMFI Manager * Best Costume Design: Dentara Rast * Best Director: Dentara Rast * Best Documentary Feature: EMFI Manager * Best Film Editing: Dentara Rast * Best Makeup: Dentara Rast * Best Visual Effects: Dentara Rast
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Sir Juri
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:57:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Dark Shikari I haven't watched the video, but from what I heard, didn't Dentara claim that Kal was his alt?
Not that i was able to hear, of course if he did I might not been able to hear it. I do believe I heard him say that he only did it with Cally in the bank though.
You would think that if some one wish to gloat and make a 16min long diatribe of mental mastur-bation, they could have at least made it with some quality. IMO SVE's exit message was far classier and better produced.
In terms of judgement perhaps not that he rob you blind. But after everything and SVE noone knows
damn need to make a new sig... |
Ricdics
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:58:00 -
[89]
* Best Gullibility : Ricdic/Ricdics/Crazy Bugger
Insured Research and Production Services Queues |
Mung Lore
Supero Omnia
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Posted - 2006.08.20 03:58:00 -
[90]
As has been previously stated, the link was removed due to excess profanity in the video. Please do not repost it (or links to any websites hosting it) and kindly conduct all further discussion of moderation with us by email at [email protected] - Serathu
News storys, how to's, IPO tools, the Scammer beware master list, all at.
Link Removed - Serathu ([email protected]) Comming Soon! |
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