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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
504
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Posted - 2014.11.05 15:20:55 -
[61] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Nah, current mechanic is fine as is. Falls perfectly in line with the "Risk vs. Reward" system of EVE. The risk being your standings, the reward being isk gain. Basically boils down to the old saying of, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." I bet you would like to see gankers put in 30 days jail where all they can do is log in and mark another scratch on the wall. Because punishing people for playing the game is awful. And later you would be one of those posting in "Eve is dying because PCU is getting lower" threads. Oh I have one nice feature since you all seem to like stupid NPC boundaries: why wouldn't empires ban pirate ships from their space? But wait, not only pirate ships but also ships from opposing factions. And enemy drones too. Yep, no more blitzing with that mach. No more switching sentries to match rats' resists or distances.
I don't have anything against gankers, and I don't even see how they factor into this. Space is harsh. EVE is harsh. Don't like it? Get out.
Now if all this is really about is being notified about the potential effects of your actions, then I can see having something in the mission briefing telling you that you will lose standings. It can't tell you how much, because that is determined based on skills. As far as tracking how much you lose, currently you can go to the Standings tab in your character sheet, right click on the NPC faction and "Show Transactions". That mechanic could use some tweaking, but if I remember correctly security status hit doesn't tell you how much you lost until you pull up your character sheet. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2907
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Posted - 2014.11.05 15:46:16 -
[62] - Quote
Space is harsh but stupid grind is still stupid. You run missions here and you would like to run them there, I run there and would like to run them here. We both acquire tags as rewards or loot or whatever and I can sell you mine, you can sell me yours. Nobody lost anything, nobody gained anything out of thin air, we both are happy with new scenery. Where's harm done?
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2159
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Posted - 2014.11.05 17:06:16 -
[63] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Space is harsh but stupid grind is still stupid. You run missions here and you would like to run them there, I run there and would like to run them here. We both acquire tags as rewards or loot or whatever and I can sell you mine, you can sell me yours. Nobody lost anything, nobody gained anything out of thin air, we both are happy with new scenery. Where's harm done? no one forces you into the 'stupid grind'. if you don't want to grind, don't do it.
I should buy an Ishtar.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2909
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Posted - 2014.11.05 17:10:08 -
[64] - Quote
Nobody forces me to wreck my sec status either but I'm free to do it and just buy myself out via tags+ISK. Why standings should be any different? What's so glorifying in grinding for standings?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
739
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Posted - 2014.11.05 20:17:33 -
[65] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I was a bit confused about the bit where they talk about spreading mission runners out. I actually quite like the concentration around particular systems because these become minor trade hubs. They are admittedly very minor but still provide trading opportunities outside the major hubs which are reasonably accessible to newer traders.
Disclaimer: I don't have any such markets set up but have in the past.
I used to stock Irjunen with items, but now that place is like a ghost town. On the other hand going to that one system with the SoE agent and just seeing a ton of people undocking in shiny ships is strange now. Having that many people farming one system just seems wrong to me. also I dunno exactly what that does to the server hamsters.
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Syn Shi wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:I live in hisec now and my sec status is almost 0. You know why? Because I had few tags from rats, rest I bought and I can now grind L4s in hisec like nobody's business. In your face! Cool, no reason to change anything then. Looks like the system is working as intended. Good work. /claps Except I'm banned from Amarr/Caldari space due to almost a year of farming Smash The Supplier and other anti faction missions which while extremely profitable tanked my standing with them to the ground. And now what, half of the map is a nono for me. You think it's good? Well, multiply me by few thousands and you have healthy chunk of players excluded from half of places where they could be ganked. Think about players that cannot join their friends to have fleet fun simply because NPCs say so. Think about children! I admit, I RP a little in my hatred for Amarr so I don't care about being in their space anyway but when glass ceiling is preventing people from having fun together unless they spent days on idiotic grind it's bad for the game and for players. Tags4sec solved this issue perfectly: those who rat hunt for tags, sell them to those who don't and everybody is happy. Wouldn't you like it better to just sell me few tags instead having me fleeted for days while my standings slowly get high enough? And last but not least - those who grind and keep their standings balanced are not better (or worse) than those who didn't. Just as those who steal are not worse than those who make Eve their second job. You think being a martyr makes you better person?
I did the oposite with Farming Enemies abound and a few SoE storylines put me back in the okay. To fix Caldari/amarr standings I would think Khanad or Ammatar missions would work.
I would guess they would have done an epic arc in the past, but the way things are going seems to me like tags for standings would be the way to go.
I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me!
In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod
- Mara Rinn
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1261
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Posted - 2014.11.05 20:35:28 -
[66] - Quote
Zappity wrote:[Sorry, what's the actual feature &/or idea?
Dersen Lowery wrote:[T]he game could be clearer about how and where and how much any such mission hurts your standings. Right now they're buried in the character sheet, and a newer player might not even know that they've tanked their standings against another faction until they fly a hauler or a mission boat through that faction's space.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1530
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Posted - 2014.11.05 22:57:44 -
[67] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Nobody forces me to wreck my sec status either but I'm free to do it and just buy myself out via tags+ISK. Why standings should be any different? What's so glorifying in grinding for standings? I agree with you: 'tags for security status' was full nonsense. One of those examples of your 'dev who is bad at thinking'
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1171
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Posted - 2014.11.05 23:34:39 -
[68] - Quote
There are already plenty of Tags4Standings .
Only issue is they are one off datacentre missions.
I see no need whatsoever to change the current situation as stands are far to easy to get already - however if CCP wanted to make it even easier they just need to make the datacentres cycle every 3 months like the Epic arcs. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
505
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Posted - 2014.11.06 02:18:44 -
[69] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Nobody forces me to wreck my sec status either but I'm free to do it and just buy myself out via tags+ISK. Why standings should be any different? What's so glorifying in grinding for standings?
What is so glorifying in wrecking your sec status doing pvp?
It's easy to see you just want easy mode for EVE. People with that attitude towards the game make me throw up a little in my mouth. Lucky for you there is a game made especially for that kind of attitude! It is called World of Warcraft! |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1517
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Posted - 2014.11.06 04:12:51 -
[70] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Nobody forces me to wreck my sec status either but I'm free to do it and just buy myself out via tags+ISK. Why standings should be any different? What's so glorifying in grinding for standings? What is so glorifying in wrecking your sec status doing pvp? It's easy to see you just want easy mode for EVE. People with that attitude towards the game make me throw up a little in my mouth. Lucky for you there is a game made especially for that kind of attitude! It is called World of Warcraft! Heard it here first boys and girls. EVE is defined by the mindless grind.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1171
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Posted - 2014.11.06 04:29:04 -
[71] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Nobody forces me to wreck my sec status either but I'm free to do it and just buy myself out via tags+ISK. Why standings should be any different? What's so glorifying in grinding for standings? What is so glorifying in wrecking your sec status doing pvp? It's easy to see you just want easy mode for EVE. People with that attitude towards the game make me throw up a little in my mouth. Lucky for you there is a game made especially for that kind of attitude! It is called World of Warcraft! Heard it here first boys and girls. EVE is defined by the mindless grind.
Perhaps there is a place for a type of play that fits somewhere in between "login and afk mine rocks all day 7 days a week" and ""login once a week for a few hours and gank a few things and log out again for another week" .
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2913
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Posted - 2014.11.06 11:20:37 -
[72] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Nobody forces me to wreck my sec status either but I'm free to do it and just buy myself out via tags+ISK. Why standings should be any different? What's so glorifying in grinding for standings? What is so glorifying in wrecking your sec status doing pvp? It's easy to see you just want easy mode for EVE. People with that attitude towards the game make me throw up a little in my mouth. Lucky for you there is a game made especially for that kind of attitude! It is called World of Warcraft!
Well, nice come back, I give you that. You could improve ratio of logic to idiocy but let's not dwell on details too much.
You are aware that Tags4Sec is sth that currently exists in Eve, right? So me wanting easy or not has very little to do with the fact that easy already is here. And sec status loss is only for attacking players so why shooting wrong kind of NPCs should be more significant than this?
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2913
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Posted - 2014.11.06 11:25:39 -
[73] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:I agree with you: 'tags for security status' was full nonsense. One of those examples of your 'dev who is bad at thinking'
Well, that's your opinion and you have every right to have and express it. It doesn't change the fact that Tags4Sec exist and made possible for players to avoid grind they don't want to do.
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1266
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Posted - 2014.11.06 15:09:08 -
[74] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:March rabbit wrote:I agree with you: 'tags for security status' was full nonsense. One of those examples of your 'dev who is bad at thinking' Well, that's your opinion and you have every right to have and express it. It doesn't change the fact that Tags4Sec exist and made possible for players to avoid grind they don't want to do.
It's a potential balance issue, because if you can make far more ISK running missions that pay our much more on the grounds that the extra reward is balanced by the faction standings hit, but then you can turn around and trivially negate that standings hit, then what you essentially have is even more cherry picking: Smash the absolute hell out of every supplier you can find, say sorry by dumping a bunch of tags off with some agent, and pocket the reward. Anyone who doesn't do that is leaving ISK on the table.
And that doesn't even get at the bigger problem, which is that if standings are so quick and so easy to manipulate, why do we have them at all? Your grind is someone else's investment.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2920
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Posted - 2014.11.06 17:15:01 -
[75] - Quote
True on the other hand it's still NPC we are talking about. They are there for us to kill, nothing else. Why should it matter which one you shoot? Ok, I know it's market, inflation and all those very important things but does it really matter how expensive stuff is if you have all empires to farm instead of just 1/4 of it? Bribe you way with tags from first gate up to agent of your choosing so not only you can get missions but also won't get shot by navies and read in news how "empires lose their grip on capsuleers" :)
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
507
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Posted - 2014.11.07 04:02:03 -
[76] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Nobody forces me to wreck my sec status either but I'm free to do it and just buy myself out via tags+ISK. Why standings should be any different? What's so glorifying in grinding for standings? What is so glorifying in wrecking your sec status doing pvp? It's easy to see you just want easy mode for EVE. People with that attitude towards the game make me throw up a little in my mouth. Lucky for you there is a game made especially for that kind of attitude! It is called World of Warcraft! Heard it here first boys and girls. EVE is defined by the mindless grind.
Eve has always been a grind, and I agree with March rabbit that Tags4SecStatus was a bad idea. It killed the whole allure of going -10, and I was well on my of way of getting it to that.
Dersen makes a very valid point that the whole idea of buying back NPC standings would just break missioning. Not only in hisec, but in lowsec and null. Because now people would find it much easier to go out to null to farm LP for the pirate factions. Making those expensive pirate battleships much more cheaper to get, and therefore making a nice dent in the market for those items. Albeit, it would possibly get more people out in the far reaches of space, but more likely it would become a farming ground for those alliances who live in that space who would saturate the market. Grinding NPC standings is the way to regulate that type of behavior.
Schmata, you make it sound like grinding standings is hard, when in fact is is relatively easy to go from 0 standing to +5 standing with an NPC corp. I've been able to do it in the past in about 10 hours of game time. It's not that hard. Now if you ruined your faction standings due to playing the FW game, then that is all on you. Players are warned of the risks of joining FW, and the rewards of doing FW are some of the best in the game. I've been there and done it, and fixed my standings.
By all means, if you want this game to become filled with more carebears screaming for a safer hisec, let's do it. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1519
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Posted - 2014.11.07 04:33:35 -
[77] - Quote
I guess you aren't thrilled about the removal of clone costs in Rhea either because of consequences etc?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2931
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Posted - 2014.11.07 08:40:27 -
[78] - Quote
Oh god, WTF theoretical Tags4Standings has to do with carebears screaming for safer hisec? And yeah, more people moving around and doing stuff in space would be totally wrong. It's completely not what CCP would want.
Call me risk averse, call me entitled - I don't care because you have no idea what I do in Eve just as I have no idea what you do. All I know is that I would like to have a way to buy myself out of standings "inconvenience" because I don't think choices you make in dealings with NPCs should have any kind of significant meaning in Eve. It's ok to have lore and stuff, play around with sleepers, clone soldiers and whatnot RP related is there but at the end of the day they are here just as cannon fodder we slaughter and pray upon. Eve is about what you do to people and consequences of those actions is what really matters.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
34596
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Posted - 2014.11.07 09:34:09 -
[79] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Eve is about what you do t¦¦o¦¦ ¦¦p¦¦e¦¦o¦¦p¦¦l¦¦e¦¦ and consequences of those actions is what really matters. Fixed that for you.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2931
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Posted - 2014.11.07 09:38:10 -
[80] - Quote
Still NPC < people
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1538
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Posted - 2014.11.07 12:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:True on the other hand it's still NPC we are talking about. They are there for us to kill, nothing else. Why should it matter which one you shoot? Well. in the game we have 4 empires + sleepers + CONCORD. If you are going to keep them in the game you should keep some difference between them. Else why have them at all? Merge all NPC empires to 1, call it somehow 'NPC' and remove all racial specifics. Pretty straightforward.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1538
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Posted - 2014.11.07 12:34:13 -
[82] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I guess you aren't thrilled about the removal of clone costs in Rhea either because of consequences etc? exactly. I'm approaching 100mil SP and i see no skills i need to train anymore. So at this point i can just stop to care about my pod at all. First pod loss will free me of implants (full set of +4s) and then.... Kill my pod everyone! It's free!
Compare it to spamming warp button when you are losing your ship, returning to your station evading bubbles and camps.... I used to return in pod from CTAs in sov-0.0 after losing my ship to get new ship and return to the battle. Now you can have my pod. It's free.
Now you kill the pod if you can. When pod loss is meaningless why bother? Even better: let him live and spend time returning to his station instead of pvp.
Result? Content removed.
PS: i'm thinking about keeping my subscription till free pods and then flood Dodixie undock with my corpses. Just move clone there, go out in a pod, get suspect. Wake up in station, undock, repeat until bored as hell.... Or until GMs ban me for killing server node... Because you know: corpses don't disappear unlike wrecks
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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