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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1865
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Posted - 2014.11.12 08:01:11 -
[811] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:
People are asking for crazy stuff because it is 'meh' as it is now, a 1.6m m3 freighter.
According to my finger math, with 2x fitted bs, T3 and a T2 logi, you will very likely be past the treshold of profitability.
But maybe it is exactly that what you have wanted, dunno, i do not see it as the highsec equivalent of a suitcase carrier, and not because of the inability to jump.
I want it to be the decision of the owner of the Bowhead. Overload it and take a chance of gank or fit sensibly and be a lot safer. You should have the option of fitting/filling badly and paying the price for greed.
Yeah, I am a carebear . . .
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
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Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 08:18:10 -
[812] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I want it to be the decision of the owner of the Bowhead. Overload it and take a chance of gank or fit sensibly and be a lot safer. You should have the option of fitting/filling badly and paying the price for greed.
Yeah, I am a carebear . . .
m
I haven't really seen people argue against this mentality. The unfortunate reality with it's current limitation on capacity is that it's near impossible for it to make sense for what's it's been promoted as being intended for. There is a real desire for a means to move 2 Faction BS's + 1 or 2 logi + misc without being a glorious loot pinata for little to no risk or loss . The problem lies in the tiny room for balance on the scale of maxing out at 3 BS's. Providing more room for people to overstuff would ease the balance of opportunity to stuff beyond reasonable levels while still offering reasonable protection for it's desired niche, however, it also exacerbates the force projection factor.
It's a very tight squeeze to make this ship practical on all fronts. SOMEONE is going to be disappointed with the end result, It would just make more sense for it to not be the intended pilots. Otherwise the time and energy of everyone that worked on making it happen becomes devalued.
I feel there is a strong need to seriously evaluate the practicality of removing the jump fatigue bonus as it doesn't provide any benefit for its proposed purpose (High sec) and opens up a large opportunity to circumvent the efforts of the jump fatigue changes. Unless this is an intended and planned use of the ship that is.
I propose people debate on the premise of adding more cost, SMB capacity, more tank and removing the jump fatigue. If the target audience is incursion runners, a 2bil isk ship to move everything they own safely in one trip is pocket change. For specialized pilots focusing on moving fitted and rigged ships, it's a small investment yet again. Especially if players were no longer provided the ability to plastic wrap rigged ships into freighters.
The larger cost will help justify the capacity and defenses while also providing more opportunity for people to be greedy and overstuff. I also feel like treating this as a neutered carrier or rorqual makes more sense than treating it as a niche freighter. |
Dave Stark
7146
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Posted - 2014.11.12 08:25:27 -
[813] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I want it to be the decision of the owner of the Bowhead. Overload it and take a chance of gank or fit sensibly and be a lot safer. You should have the option of fitting/filling badly and paying the price for greed.
Yeah, I am a carebear . . .
m
it'll fall on deaf ears, mike.
it's crap unless it's a gank proof hauler that can move trillions with 0 risk. |
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 08:34:28 -
[814] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Anonymous Forumposter wrote:I haven't really seen people argue against this mentality. so, you haven't read half of the posts in the thread?
I've read every single post and not a single one of them argued against a situation for the pilot to overstuff and experience great loss. The ship has been presented by CCP as a solution for Incursion pilots. The reality of a good majority of incursion pilots is that they have multiple faction BS's and multiple logi's that they need to regularly move around. WIth that being the context, the average value they need to move regularly is well over the threshold for "you WILL be ganked". You also need to factor beyond the isk value. A single item worth 1 bil isk vs 10 items worth 100 million isk is more likely to instill greed in pirates and convince them to f1.
The argument is that this solution doesn't provide a reasonable enough solution to justify its risks for what it's been presented as a solution for. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
198
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Posted - 2014.11.12 08:36:34 -
[815] - Quote
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Wanna hear a cool story ship maint bays as of now don't drop anything.... I've got a better story. CCP Rise wrote:Acquisition will work the same as freighters - there will be a NPC seeded BPO (with the same distribution as the Orca), it will be a bit cheaper than a freighter BPO, the Bowhead build materials will also be similar to other Freighters but will be be a bit lower. I would expect eventual market price to be 100 or 200 mil lower than other freighters.
It will use capital rigs.
I think it's been said other places but as far as loot - we hope to get a change ready in time for Rhea that will make SMA loot work the same as CHAs where the contents will be inside the wreck on ship death, it's still not totally clear if that will happen in time but it would be in the following release if not.
I'm not convinced about the EHP needing to be higher but I'll bring this to the rest of the team and get back to you. Reading is hard yo.
Yes i read that particularly the part about trying to get that implemented in time.... my hopes aren't high |
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 08:50:13 -
[816] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Yes i read that particularly the part about trying to get that implemented in time.... my hopes aren't high
So to you, waiting an extra 5 weeks for the fix isn't reasonable on any level? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:10:10 -
[817] - Quote
This is like arguing with a brick.
You keep on going on about maths so lets see if you can follow these very easy sums.
one pilot in a bowhead can transport 3 battleships, lets assume each incursion runner owns two battleships and a logi. In a group of 20 you would use 15 bowheads to transport the battleships and logi and 5 pilots to fly a logi support when moving. To do this same move without the bowheads will require 3 trips. The bowheads just saved you a lot of time and by moving in a convoy they were all but invincible to gankers.
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Dave Stark
7147
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:31:03 -
[818] - Quote
what's the cost of like 40 fully fit tornados? which is the obvious counter to "bring logi" |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:36:31 -
[819] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:what's the cost of like 40 fully fit tornados? which is the obvious counter to "bring logi"
2.4 bil.
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Dave Stark
7147
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:38:37 -
[820] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:what's the cost of like 40 fully fit tornados? which is the obvious counter to "bring logi" 2.4 bil.
yeah just checked the jita price of nado hulls, the hulls alone come to about that. |
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Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
58
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Posted - 2014.11.12 09:40:35 -
[821] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:This is like arguing with a brick. This is like arguing with a goon.
baltec1 wrote:You keep on going on about maths so lets see if you can follow these very easy sums.
one pilot in a bowhead can transport 3 battleships, lets assume each incursion runner owns two battleships and a logi. In a group of 20 you would use 15 bowheads to transport the battleships and logi and 5 pilots to fly a logi support when moving. To do this same move without the bowheads will require 3 trips. The bowheads just saved you a lot of time and by moving in a convoy they were all but invincible to gankers. Transporting your ships in this way is infact much safer than flying the battleships themselves as there is no force in high sec with the manpower or firepower to alpha something with the tank of a bowhead being supported with 5 logi. All right, I admit I never thought about groups that big. That said, a group of 20 people is just too big for hisec. What about smaller (and more realistic) groups? Screwed? What about bumping? Screwed as well, I guess.
I still don't see much use for it, though I admit the corner case scenario of a large group you described.
A crap ton equals 1000 crap loads in metric, and roughly 91 shit loads 12 bull shits and 1 puppy's unforeseen disaster in imperial.
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Dave Stark
7147
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Posted - 2014.11.12 09:42:25 -
[822] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:That said, a group of 20 people is just too big for hisec. What about smaller (and more realistic) groups? Screwed?
erm, if we're being realistic... an incursion fleet is 40 people.
so, 20 people is actually too small. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:43:38 -
[823] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:what's the cost of like 40 fully fit tornados? which is the obvious counter to "bring logi" 2.4 bil. yeah just checked the jita price of nado hulls, the hulls alone come to about that.
To put that into context 3 mach hulls are only worth 1.8 bil.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1867
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:50:04 -
[824] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:We are the corp that invented industrialised ganking of freighters. With a bulkhead setup and three faction battleships in the hold it is unprofitable to gank. Good girl! Now invent some math. Hint: there is a difference between "actually not profitable" and "less than 1 billion per hour, meh, not profitable", which you intentionally avoid. baltec1 wrote:As for the incursion escort comment, it is entirely viable to run an escort as you will have to do multiple trips if you just fly the ships themselves. This is the entire crux of the argument. These ships sport a good tank and are virtually invincible with an escort of logi. Transporting 3x pirate faction battleships solo in one of these things is not ment to be risk free. You people are forever banging on about how close the incursion community is, its about time you showed this by working together rather than whining that you cant solo your way past 40 people. You need more escort than ships you can stuff inside this whale, thus there is no point in using it, period. Training into travel fits doesn't take much nowadays - you don't need all those gunnery skills to fly it from A to B, so if you have people to escort, you have people to actually fly them, and since escort+bowhead is at least equal to 3 bs flying by themselves, there is no point in Bowhead, unless it can offer something flying 3 bs doesn't, like less gank vulnerability, faster travel, or anything else to make it stand out. What's risk free here is ganking it: if you have sufficient force, you win, if you don't, you don't gank. Flying it doesn't need to be risk free, but it sure as **** shouldn't be MORE risky than any other option. As it stands now, flying bs themselves is less risk, hauling them in freighters is less risk - which basically means that at current values the Bowhead is the most risk option, since it's risk free to gank it. I'd even say it's a suicide option at current values. It should stand out to be used or it might as well not exist. With a risk-free gank on it, no advantages in speed, and requiring more escort than it hauls there is just nothing in it which is useful outside of blue donut.
I usually do not agree with baltec. But he is RIGHT this time. Incursiosn are the group that would have the LEAST issues making this thing work, as long as you guys use brains. You can send 10 of these ships together and paired by 4 guardians and it would be incredbly safe.
They will be useless as a solo "let me move my whole collection" type of ship. But I do not think that was their intended role.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:53:50 -
[825] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:We are the corp that invented industrialised ganking of freighters. With a bulkhead setup and three faction battleships in the hold it is unprofitable to gank. Good girl! Now invent some math. Hint: there is a difference between "actually not profitable" and "less than 1 billion per hour, meh, not profitable", which you intentionally avoid. baltec1 wrote:As for the incursion escort comment, it is entirely viable to run an escort as you will have to do multiple trips if you just fly the ships themselves. This is the entire crux of the argument. These ships sport a good tank and are virtually invincible with an escort of logi. Transporting 3x pirate faction battleships solo in one of these things is not ment to be risk free. You people are forever banging on about how close the incursion community is, its about time you showed this by working together rather than whining that you cant solo your way past 40 people. You need more escort than ships you can stuff inside this whale, thus there is no point in using it, period. Training into travel fits doesn't take much nowadays - you don't need all those gunnery skills to fly it from A to B, so if you have people to escort, you have people to actually fly them, and since escort+bowhead is at least equal to 3 bs flying by themselves, there is no point in Bowhead, unless it can offer something flying 3 bs doesn't, like less gank vulnerability, faster travel, or anything else to make it stand out. What's risk free here is ganking it: if you have sufficient force, you win, if you don't, you don't gank. Flying it doesn't need to be risk free, but it sure as **** shouldn't be MORE risky than any other option. As it stands now, flying bs themselves is less risk, hauling them in freighters is less risk - which basically means that at current values the Bowhead is the most risk option, since it's risk free to gank it. I'd even say it's a suicide option at current values. It should stand out to be used or it might as well not exist. With a risk-free gank on it, no advantages in speed, and requiring more escort than it hauls there is just nothing in it which is useful outside of blue donut. I usually do not agree with baltec. But he is RIGHT this time. Incursiosn are the group that would have the LEAST issues making this thing work, as long as you guys use brains. You can send 10 of these ships together and paired by 4 guardians and it would be incredbly safe. They will be useless as a solo "let me move my whole collection" type of ship. But I do not think that was their intended role.
So how do you account for the pilots that aren't currently at the staging area and need to get there. Your strategy ONLY works in a perfect situation and completely falls apart otherwise. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:56:37 -
[826] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is like arguing with a brick. This is like arguing with a goon. baltec1 wrote:You keep on going on about maths so lets see if you can follow these very easy sums.
one pilot in a bowhead can transport 3 battleships, lets assume each incursion runner owns two battleships and a logi. In a group of 20 you would use 15 bowheads to transport the battleships and logi and 5 pilots to fly a logi support when moving. To do this same move without the bowheads will require 3 trips. The bowheads just saved you a lot of time and by moving in a convoy they were all but invincible to gankers. Transporting your ships in this way is infact much safer than flying the battleships themselves as there is no force in high sec with the manpower or firepower to alpha something with the tank of a bowhead being supported with 5 logi. All right, I admit I never thought about groups that big. That said, a group of 20 people is just too big for hisec. What about smaller (and more realistic) groups? Screwed? What about bumping? Screwed as well, I guess. I still don't see much use for it, though I admit the corner case scenario of a large group you described.
Incursions are run in groups of 40 and any incursion corp will have many more members than that. The reality is that these conyoys are going to be numbering 100+ pilots when these incursion groups move.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Dave Stark
7147
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:58:21 -
[827] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dave Stark wrote:what's the cost of like 40 fully fit tornados? which is the obvious counter to "bring logi" 2.4 bil. yeah just checked the jita price of nado hulls, the hulls alone come to about that. To put that into context 3 mach hulls are only worth 1.8 bil.
even fitted you're probably only doubling the value, then assuming 50% drop rate as per other loot drop mechanics... we're back at an expected profit of 1.8bn which is still less than the cost of the 40 nados needed to "bypass" the logistics element of the convoy.
maybe a bit more, then again, just put 2 and a few cheaper logistics ships/command ships/drone bunny ships etc in with the 2 battleships to spread cost. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 09:58:55 -
[828] - Quote
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
So how do you account for the pilots that aren't currently at the staging area and need to get there. Your strategy ONLY works in a perfect situation and completely falls apart otherwise.
You ask your corp for help moving.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
949
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:05:31 -
[829] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Warr Akini wrote: Again, try not to assume too much about the ganker mindset. I haven't really been involved in this whole ganking debate, honestly because it shouldn't be part of this thread. But I'd like to add my two cents at this point just because people don't have to assume anything about your mindset or motivations for this "mechanic" to be insanely stupid to begin with. And before I get started on why, no I don't believe hi-sec space should be 100% safe. That being said, the fact that people can repeatedly kill ships in hi sec over and over again is stupid. Think of it this way. Criminals today usually get second and third chances, but at some point, the legal systems realizes a person is a lost cause and removes them civilization. In this case you can repair your sec an unlimited number of times. How does that make sense? What needs to happen is that the system needs to be modified so that hi sec gankers after a certain amount of ganks get un-repairable sec status so as to make it very risky for them to move around empire. This allows people to engage in the activity on a limited basis with actual true consequences for their actions should they try to make it a full time career.
if they made it a 3 strikes and your sec is unfixable per account .. then that would work as a deterrant i would think... and any further accounts using the same computer should be affeted the same.. too stop trial accounts/secound accounts expoting the rule.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
95
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Posted - 2014.11.12 10:07:10 -
[830] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
So how do you account for the pilots that aren't currently at the staging area and need to get there. Your strategy ONLY works in a perfect situation and completely falls apart otherwise.
You ask your corp for help moving.
Doesnt the inclusion of a corp service kinda shrink the use cases to "i dont want to loose the insurance on my navy bs" ? |
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Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:07:43 -
[831] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
So how do you account for the pilots that aren't currently at the staging area and need to get there. Your strategy ONLY works in a perfect situation and completely falls apart otherwise.
You ask your corp for help moving.
A VERY large chunk of people running incursions, don't belong to an incursion corp, much less a corp of anything other than themselves. It's also not uncommon for you to logout for the day, and log in the next day and have the entire community already relocated to the next site. So how is it practical at this point to relocate if the entire ship is balanced around needing logistics support? Beg and plead with the incursion community to travel all the way back just to escort me and my Bowhead all the way out there again? Perhaps I should just give up on this ship providing any actual bennefit and ignore the fact that it exists altogether. Because we all love ships that aren't practical and as such get neglected. |
Dave Stark
7147
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:11:33 -
[832] - Quote
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
So how do you account for the pilots that aren't currently at the staging area and need to get there. Your strategy ONLY works in a perfect situation and completely falls apart otherwise.
You ask your corp for help moving. A VERY large chunk of people running incursions, don't belong to an incursion corp, much less a corp of anything other than themselves. It's also not uncommon for you to logout for the day, and log in the next day and have the entire community already relocated to the next site. So how is it practical at this point to relocate if the entire ship is balanced around needing logistics support? Beg and plead with the incursion community to travel all the way back just to escort me and my Bowhead all the way out there again? Perhaps I should just give up on this ship providing any actual bennefit and ignore the fact that it exists altogether. Because we all love ships that aren't practical and as such get neglected.
if you're not moving the instant that an incursion focus changes, and you're only carrying your own personal assets. the chance of anyone bothering to gank you is minimal anyway.
besides, if the focus has moved and the fleets already up and full... you have all the time in the world to move your ships as slowly and safely as you want. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:12:21 -
[833] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Warr Akini wrote: Again, try not to assume too much about the ganker mindset. I haven't really been involved in this whole ganking debate, honestly because it shouldn't be part of this thread. But I'd like to add my two cents at this point just because people don't have to assume anything about your mindset or motivations for this "mechanic" to be insanely stupid to begin with. And before I get started on why, no I don't believe hi-sec space should be 100% safe. That being said, the fact that people can repeatedly kill ships in hi sec over and over again is stupid. Think of it this way. Criminals today usually get second and third chances, but at some point, the legal systems realizes a person is a lost cause and removes them civilization. In this case you can repair your sec an unlimited number of times. How does that make sense? What needs to happen is that the system needs to be modified so that hi sec gankers after a certain amount of ganks get un-repairable sec status so as to make it very risky for them to move around empire. This allows people to engage in the activity on a limited basis with actual true consequences for their actions should they try to make it a full time career. if they made it a 3 strikes and your sec is unfixable per account .. then that would work as a deterrant i would think... and any further accounts using the same computer should be affeted the same.. too stop trial accounts/secound accounts expoting the rule.
You just killed eve for families/students ect who share a computer and anyone who pvps in low sec plus anyone who accidentaly shoots things in high sec thinking its low sec and people who wish to give up their life of crime. Meanwhile the people who are neg ten all the time anyway are not impacted.
Please take these terrible ideas to another thread.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:15:47 -
[834] - Quote
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
So how do you account for the pilots that aren't currently at the staging area and need to get there. Your strategy ONLY works in a perfect situation and completely falls apart otherwise.
You ask your corp for help moving. A VERY large chunk of people running incursions, don't belong to an incursion corp, much less a corp of anything other than themselves. It's also not uncommon for you to logout for the day, and log in the next day and have the entire community already relocated to the next site. So how is it practical at this point to relocate if the entire ship is balanced around needing logistics support? Beg and plead with the incursion community to travel all the way back just to escort me and my Bowhead all the way out there again? Perhaps I should just give up on this ship providing any actual bennefit and ignore the fact that it exists altogether. Because we all love ships that aren't practical and as such get neglected.
Its not balanced around needing logi support, its just that it works best in an organised group. Just like every single other ship in EVE.
Frankly, this is a good example of why you should leave the state war acadamy and make some friends.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:17:39 -
[835] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
So how do you account for the pilots that aren't currently at the staging area and need to get there. Your strategy ONLY works in a perfect situation and completely falls apart otherwise.
You ask your corp for help moving. Doesnt the inclusion of a corp service kinda shrink the use cases to "i dont want to loose the insurance on my navy bs" ?
So long as they dont enter your ship your insurance is fine.
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Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:18:53 -
[836] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:This is like arguing with a brick. You keep on going on about maths so lets see if you can follow these very easy sums. one pilot in a bowhead can transport 3 battleships, lets assume each incursion runner owns two battleships and a logi. In a group of 20 you would use 15 bowheads to transport the battleships and logi and 5 pilots to fly a logi support when moving. To do this same move without the bowheads will require 3 trips. The bowheads just saved you a lot of time and by moving in a convoy they were all but invincible to gankers. Transporting your ships in this way is infact much safer than flying the battleships themselves as there is no force in high sec with the manpower or firepower to alpha something with the tank of a bowhead being supported with 5 logi.
Too bad most regular incursionners (more than 6 months old pilot) own 3 BS (mach,vindi,Nm)+2 logi(scimi + basi)+ CS + scout so in group of 20 ,we would need 20 bow head and with the current SMA state that wouldn't be enought. And your theory of convoy make me laught hard,noone use the convoy tactics anymore because it doesn't change anything expect increasing risk by enhancing the visibility of such convoy.Actually flying the BS one of by one is extremely safe compared to load them in a single ship (speed can go to 5.9 au/s and ehp goes from 145k to 225K on antimatter) so ganking such ships is a no go for gankers. It 's not surprizing for people to expect that level of security for the bow head meaning at least 450 K EHP for the speed versions and much more for the tankier one around 600 K. But i don't learn you anything isn't it baltec, your spreadsheet is just crying than at this amount of EHP if people doesn't carry shinnies it won't be that much profitable.But not every ship has to be profitable to suicide gank,it's unlikely than CODE and BAT has to complain about their return on investment. Currently those incursion BS are out of your reach as far as profitability is concerned i don't see any reasonwhy they should be after the indroduction of this ship... Nobody can have all they want for example i'd like the set up used on BOW HEAD to be extended to every other freighter and jump freighter meaning 3 R 3 M 3L and enought grid and CPU for a MWD.Even if that would happen ganking would still be profitable when i see the value dropped by freighters in niarjas and uedama . |
Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:20:12 -
[837] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Frankly, this is a good example of why you should leave the state war acadamy and make some friends.
It's nice to see that you've convinced yourself that despite being an obvious forum alt, There is NO possible way I could be in a corp and or have friends. You've just done wonders for your credibility ;)
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 10:21:00 -
[838] - Quote
Nya Kittenheart wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is like arguing with a brick. You keep on going on about maths so lets see if you can follow these very easy sums. one pilot in a bowhead can transport 3 battleships, lets assume each incursion runner owns two battleships and a logi. In a group of 20 you would use 15 bowheads to transport the battleships and logi and 5 pilots to fly a logi support when moving. To do this same move without the bowheads will require 3 trips. The bowheads just saved you a lot of time and by moving in a convoy they were all but invincible to gankers. Transporting your ships in this way is infact much safer than flying the battleships themselves as there is no force in high sec with the manpower or firepower to alpha something with the tank of a bowhead being supported with 5 logi. Too bad most regular incursionners (more than 6 months old pilot) own 3 BS (mach,vindi,Nm)+2 logi(scimi + basi)+ CS + scout so in group of 20 ,we would need 20 bow head and with the current SMA state that wouldn't be enought. And your theory of convoy make me laught hard,noone use the convoy tactics anymore because it doesn't change anything expect increasing risk by enhancing the visibility of such convoy.Actually flying the BS one of by one is extremely safe compared to load them in a single ship (speed can go to 5.9 au/s and ehp goes from 145k to 225K on antimatter) so ganking such ships is a no go for gankers. It 's not surprizing for people to expect that level of security for the bow head meaning at least 450 K EHP for the speed versions and much more for the tankier one around 600 K. But i don't learn you anything isn't it baltec, your spreadsheet is just crying than at this amount of EHP if people doesn't carry shinnies it won't be that much profitable.But not every ship has to be profitable to suicide gank,it's unlikely than CODE and BAT has to complain about their return on investment. Currently those incursion BS are out of your reach as far as profitability is concerned i don't see any reasonwhy they should be after the indroduction of this ship... Nobody can have all they want for example i'd like the set up used on BOW HEAD to be extended to every other freighter and jump freighter meaning 3 R 3 M 3L and enought grid and CPU for a MWD.Even if that would happen ganking would still be profitable when i see the value dropped by freighters in niarjas and uedama .
So you make two trips rather than one. This isnt hard people.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Dave Stark
7147
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Posted - 2014.11.12 10:22:52 -
[839] - Quote
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:baltec1 wrote:Frankly, this is a good example of why you should leave the state war acadamy and make some friends. It's nice to see that you've convinced yourself that despite being an obvious forum alt, There is NO possible way I could be in a corp and or have friends. You've just done wonders for your credibility ;)
with the amount of whining you're doing, it's pretty evident that you're unlikely to have friends or be in a half decent corp.
baltec1 wrote:So you make two trips rather than one. This isnt hard people. or people stop hauling 5 ships to every focus and just take the ones they need (which is like, 2 ships) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13862
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Posted - 2014.11.12 10:22:57 -
[840] - Quote
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:baltec1 wrote:Frankly, this is a good example of why you should leave the state war acadamy and make some friends. It's nice to see that you've convinced yourself that despite being an obvious forum alt, There is NO possible way I could be in a corp and or have friends. You've just done wonders for your credibility ;)
Point still stands. Get into a corp and life becomes a lot easier in EVE.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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