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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Masao Kurata
Z List
139
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:11:32 -
[1381] - Quote
Bertucio wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Bertucio wrote:This does make me wonder if the real design goal of the Bowhead is just to provide more cannon fodder for gankers? Since as it stands now - unless you fly with it in a fleet or dual account play and have some kind of logistics, you're going to have to say bye bye to your Bowhead everytime a group of 20 cheap dessies and their CODE? leader want to gank it in hi-sec. 35 destroyers if you tank it properly. And if you're flying solo. If you're caught at all with your 10 second warps. If the fc can even get 35 gankers. Who by the way have to all have perfect skills for this calculation. Counting the wrecks I saw in Uedama
...is irrelevant. We're talking about a tanked bowhead, not a freighter. As to the rest of your points, no you do not have the right to play solo without other players interfering in your gameplay. If you want a single player space trading simulator, there are a number out there, EVE isn't one. Might is right here. |
Bertucio
Chandra Labs
15
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:16:38 -
[1382] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Bertucio wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:Bertucio wrote:This does make me wonder if the real design goal of the Bowhead is just to provide more cannon fodder for gankers? Since as it stands now - unless you fly with it in a fleet or dual account play and have some kind of logistics, you're going to have to say bye bye to your Bowhead everytime a group of 20 cheap dessies and their CODE? leader want to gank it in hi-sec. 35 destroyers if you tank it properly. And if you're flying solo. If you're caught at all with your 10 second warps. If the fc can even get 35 gankers. Who by the way have to all have perfect skills for this calculation. Counting the wrecks I saw in Uedama ...is irrelevant. We're talking about a tanked bowhead, not a freighter. As to the rest of your points, no you do not have the right to play solo without other players interfering in your gameplay. If you want a single player space trading simulator, there are a number out there, EVE isn't one. Might is right here.
Irrelevant? Bowhead is suppose to be some kind freighter level ship. It is going to be a capital ship at the least. Perhaps not an expensive freighter but nevertheless somewhere between 700mil to 1bil is my guess. Maybe Orca level. How you find that irrelevant is beyond my ken.
Hey - It's not just me who flies solo and does solo stuff in Eve. If you think I'm some kind of anomaly player in hi-sec i.e. there are not a lot of solo missioners or people who haul their stuff solo or would want to use a ship hauling tugboat solo - then tbh, you're better off believing in Never Never Land - because there are lots of Eve players who do play solo and enjoy it.
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Masao Kurata
Z List
139
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:17:37 -
[1383] - Quote
It's irrelevant because the bowheap's peak EHP is much higher than any T1 freighter. |
Bertucio
Chandra Labs
15
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:19:22 -
[1384] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:It's irrelevant because the bowheap's peak EHP is much higher than any T1 freighter.
.... Irrelevant, since you know as well as I that the current cheap dessy paradigm in Uedama will still be able to take the Bow down - risking a lot less ISK than it's actually worth. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1282
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:20:45 -
[1385] - Quote
Bertucio wrote:Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. That gankers shouldn't be entitled to take it down unless they also risk what the freighter pilot is risking - a billion ISK. Let me get this straight, if I undock a shuttle with 30 PLEX in it, the amount of ships needed to kill my shuttle should be equivalent to the current value of 30 PLEX? Is that your reasoning?
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Bertucio
Chandra Labs
15
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:26:01 -
[1386] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Bertucio wrote:Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. That gankers shouldn't be entitled to take it down unless they also risk what the freighter pilot is risking - a billion ISK. Let me get this straight, if I undock a shuttle with 30 PLEX in it, the amount of ships needed to kill my shuttle should be equivalent to the current value of 30 PLEX? Is that your reasoning?
Let me get this straight, shipping 30 PLEX is the same as a slow freighter flying through Uedama?
Because if you're arguing that 30 PLEX is the same as a freighter trying to transport stuff through Uedama is the same then your argument is irrelevant. The two are not the same.
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1282
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:46:04 -
[1387] - Quote
Bertucio wrote:Let me get this straight, shipping 30 PLEX is the same as a slow freighter flying through Uedama? If you weren't hauling expensive stuff in that freighter your chances of being a target would go down astronomically because ganking costs time and ISK, same as the freighter. If it takes 35 dudes in Catalysts (minimum) to take down a (well-tanked) Bowhead the manpower cost is quite high; you need a guy to scan Bowheads looking for a good profit, you need a guy to bump, you need 35 dudes all sitting around waiting on a moment's notice to undock and bring down righteous fury on the careless carebear, you need a guy in a freighter to scoop the loot (that's a major risk) or multiple guys to hop in those ships (still a major risk), you need alts to bring in ganking gear, you need market alts to sell the goods,, etc... The time in person-hours required to take down a Bowhead with destroyers is substantial if you want to be profitable. If you're doing it "for lulz" you still need financing and logistics, which might come from donations (in CODE.'s case) which involves the toil of many other people. A ton of effort goes into a successful gank. Your argument about the effort of and cost to a single player is irrelevant compared to the organization required for ganking.
Bertucio wrote:Because if you're arguing that shipping 30 PLEX is the same as a freighter trying to transport stuff through Uedama then your argument is irrelevant. The two are not the same. Your argument amounts to cost being the balancing factor, so they are the same thing. Is not the sweat of my brow equal in worth to yours?
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Masao Kurata
Z List
140
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:46:45 -
[1388] - Quote
Bertucio wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:It's irrelevant because the bowheap's peak EHP is much higher than any T1 freighter. .... Irrelevant, since you know as well as I that the current cheap dessy paradigm in Uedama will still be able to take the Bow down - risking a lot less ISK than it's actually worth.
If one pilot could fly a large number of ships by remote you would have something resembling a point, as it is you do not. |
Masao Kurata
Z List
140
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:47:50 -
[1389] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:If it takes 35 dudes in Catalysts (minimum) to take down a freighter
A well tanked bowhead which isn't AFK, not a freighter, and that's if using destroyers. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1282
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:52:47 -
[1390] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:A well tanked bowhead which isn't AFK, not a freighter, and that's if using destroyers. Thank you for the correction.
CCP has no sense of humour.
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Fruckton Haulalot
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:54:56 -
[1391] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Bertucio wrote:Masao Kurata wrote:It's irrelevant because the bowheap's peak EHP is much higher than any T1 freighter. .... Irrelevant, since you know as well as I that the current cheap dessy paradigm in Uedama will still be able to take the Bow down - risking a lot less ISK than it's actually worth. If one pilot could fly a large number of ships by remote you would have something resembling a point, as it is you do not.
you sire are mistaken... there are several players who fly multiple ships aka accounts... there are nurmerous players who feild 10 to 20 accounts at a time ...
there are a few... who can and do feild 40 or more accounts at a time for ganking. |
Masao Kurata
Z List
140
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Posted - 2014.11.13 23:01:19 -
[1392] - Quote
Fruckton Haulalot wrote:you sire are mistaken...
I'm not royalty but thanks.
Quote: there are several players who fly multiple ships aka accounts...
I said pilot, not player. That said I am wholly opposed to isboxer and think it's shameful that CCP haven't strictly forbidden its use.
Quote: there are nurmerous players who feild 10 to 20 accounts at a time ... there are a few... who can and do feild 40 or more accounts at a time for ganking.
Well if anyone's multiboxing 40 gankers by himself, which I have seen no evidence of, he must be incredibly lazy because he sure isn't ganking much. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13889
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Posted - 2014.11.13 23:41:52 -
[1393] - Quote
Bertucio wrote:
Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. .
There is a megathron in EVE worth around 5-10 trillion isk. Using your logic, this ship should have a tank greater than a fleet of titans.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.11.13 23:49:53 -
[1394] - Quote
Could we come back on the subject aka the ship himself and let the suicide ganking discussion for another time ...
-What about the new skill , it doesn't seem right to me to introduce a third skill affecting ORE ship line . -Introduction of an Ore bay ? -Bonus to warp speed for the hull ? 10 % per level ? -Removal of the jump fatigue bonus ? -BP and ship available trought concord LP ? -A little more space in the SMA at lvl 4 of the skill to carry 3 different type of pirate BS + a logi ? -Cpu is a bit short for fitting 2 invul t2+ a mwd meta 4 |
Masao Kurata
Z List
140
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:15:17 -
[1395] - Quote
A warp speed per level bonus would be nice, though probably not necessary. The agility bonus is definitely unnecessary, its original agility was fine considering that it benefits from advanced spaceship command. The only change that needs to be made is reverting the stats back to version 1. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
105
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:15:37 -
[1396] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bertucio wrote:
Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. .
There is a megathron in EVE worth around 5-10 trillion isk. Using your logic, this ship should have a tank greater than a fleet of titans.
maybe only compare hull value and not mods |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13889
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:20:16 -
[1397] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bertucio wrote:
Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. .
There is a megathron in EVE worth around 5-10 trillion isk. Using your logic, this ship should have a tank greater than a fleet of titans. maybe only compare hull value and not mods
That is the hull. The mods only come to a paltry few hundred billion.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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KatanTharkay
V I R I I Ineluctable.
48
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:47:32 -
[1398] - Quote
Can it get a high slot and fleet hangars, pretty please? |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
273
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:52:14 -
[1399] - Quote
The reality is that the only group in highsec that actually needs to move 3 battleships around at once is incursion runners, and most of them with either have vindi+mach+nm or vindi+nm+scimi+basi,
Either way the hull value alone is getting close to 2 bil....and lots of highsec players will be sticking their expensive mods in as well, so we could easily be looking at 10 bil+ inside. I'm just hoping we don't start seeing these blowing up the same way we see jump freighters blowing up.
Personally I'm gonna wait a couple of months to see the ganking level before I even consider flying this. |
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax3
73
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:54:43 -
[1400] - Quote
I 'am a mission runnner.
This new ship has potential. What I would like to see is a trade off , tank vs ship carrying ability. The ability to carry four battleships at the expence of tank, or the ability to fit a large tank while only able to carry two or three battleships. Give it the ability to use a MJD , to reward active piloting.
As it stands atm, I would hesitate to transport maruaders or priate battleships using the Bowhead. |
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
105
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Posted - 2014.11.14 01:28:04 -
[1401] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bertucio wrote:
Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. .
There is a megathron in EVE worth around 5-10 trillion isk. Using your logic, this ship should have a tank greater than a fleet of titans. maybe only compare hull value and not mods That is the hull. The mods only come to a paltry few hundred billion.
build cost then |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1671
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 01:56:05 -
[1402] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bertucio wrote:
Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. .
There is a megathron in EVE worth around 5-10 trillion isk. Using your logic, this ship should have a tank greater than a fleet of titans. maybe only compare hull value and not mods That is the hull. The mods only come to a paltry few hundred billion. build cost then It still comes down to the idea that the more money you throw at it the safer it should be. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
196
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Posted - 2014.11.14 02:51:58 -
[1403] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lady Rift wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bertucio wrote:
Yeah - that's what I'm saying. If you spend a billion ISK on a freighter, than something around a billion ISK should be spent to take it down in hi-sec. .
There is a megathron in EVE worth around 5-10 trillion isk. Using your logic, this ship should have a tank greater than a fleet of titans. maybe only compare hull value and not mods That is the hull. The mods only come to a paltry few hundred billion. build cost then Fine day to pick cherries...
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2014.11.14 03:01:54 -
[1404] - Quote
hey guys let's balance ship hulls on cost
--CCP titan development team, 2005 |
Bertucio
Chandra Labs
29
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Posted - 2014.11.14 03:52:12 -
[1405] - Quote
Nya Kittenheart wrote:Could we come back on the subject aka the ship himself and let the suicide ganking discussion for another time ...
-What about the new skill , it doesn't seem right to me to introduce a third skill affecting ORE ship line . -Introduction of an Ore bay ? -Bonus to warp speed for the hull ? 10 % per level ? -Removal of the jump fatigue bonus ? -BP and ship available trought concord LP ? -A little more space in the SMA at lvl 4 of the skill to carry 3 different type of pirate BS + a logi ? -Cpu is a bit short for fitting 2 invul t2+ a mwd meta 4
-The ship should be in the Interbus line -Note the role of the ship an Ore bay -Warp speed for a tugboat? Doesn't seem realistic and comparable to other T1 freighters or Orca. -Removal of jump fatigue bonus (just another way of nul-sec alliances trying to cheat on the power projection nerfs) -That will sure limit availability and won't add much to regular Industrialist players in Eve. So no. -Yeah I think 3 BS's seems a bit little and the 1st comments on this thread were to buff the SMA -Why more CPU? Since suicide ganking we shouldn't discuss and now is not even an issue.
I agree with one of the earlier posters: I'm going to wait for this puppy since it seems pretty clear to me now that it's going to be released with not much more buff to it - basically because of the bias in Eve and ingrained entitlement of gankers (also known as griefers) to have a free roam in hi-sec. But then that's always the case when new stuff is put out - it is usually only about a half a year or year later of abuse that CCP finally get around to addressing the problem and it gets fixed. But hey that's Eve! As for me - I'm outta here! |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1693
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Posted - 2014.11.14 04:37:10 -
[1406] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:The reality is that the only group in highsec that actually needs to move 3 battleships around at once is incursion runners, and most of them with either have vindi+mach+nm or vindi+nm+scimi+basi,
Either way the hull value alone is getting close to 2 bil....and lots of highsec players will be sticking their expensive mods in as well, so we could easily be looking at 10 bil+ inside. I'm just hoping we don't start seeing these blowing up the same way we see jump freighters blowing up.
Personally I'm gonna wait a couple of months to see the ganking level before I even consider flying this. As I said a number of pages back, if players stick 10 bil of Modules in this also expect to get Ganked. Based on current EHP numbers the bare hulls 'shouldn't' be worth ganking by a standard ABC gank, and are close in break even for a Catalyst gank which at about 50-60 needed is starting to get to the point they will be bumping each other out of effective range for small blasters possibly. It certainly shouldn't have it's EHP nerfed though or it becomes an auto profit for any real use that it would actually see in highsec, rather than this mythical pilot needing to move multiple T1 hulls who can't simply package them. And more fitting options would be nice. It would be interesting to see indy ships actually given plenty of fitting & slots to use. After all if someone wants to use it as bait with smart bombs, it should be allowed. The artificial restriction on all Indy ships on fitting is a large part of what hurts them and forces the base EHP numbers to be so high. |
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
76
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Posted - 2014.11.14 04:48:16 -
[1407] - Quote
Sorry for the noob question, can a fitted ship in the ship maintenance array be used? If I am in a pod can I fly up to the Bowhead and enter the ship or can it be jettisoned for me to get into?
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
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Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
303
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Posted - 2014.11.14 07:35:33 -
[1408] - Quote
Any news on courier contracting goodness?
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Anonymous Forumposter
State War Academy Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2014.11.14 07:44:01 -
[1409] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Any news on courier contracting goodness? Not yet.
Things people are waiting for answers to:
- Will this ship cause modifications to plastic wrapping ships in courier contracts? (Will we be able to haul plastic wrapped ships in the Bowhead? Will plastic wrapped ships still be courier-able via freighters and other ships)
- Will this ship have a Ship Maintenance Array (P.O.S. Module)? or a Ship maintenance Bay (Like every other ship that holds ships)
- Will we be able to board and load ships to/from this vessel in space?
- Will we be able to refit in ships in space using this ship?
If you're also interested in the answers to these questions, please like this post! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1871
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Posted - 2014.11.14 08:38:18 -
[1410] - Quote
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:They need to move their single battleship alone. Since they are alone, there is no sense on usign a ship capable of moving 3 battleships at a time? This assumes they have only one ship to move. This is not the norm amongst Incursioners.
So adapt.. as everyone in game adapts. You do not need several battleships. If you eel entitled to that.. PAY THE PRICE!
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Also.. you want to ccp take you by the hand? By resorting to such cliche and terrible personal attacks you discredit yourself which actually works against you in the long run.
Where in the nine hells is that a personal attack? It is neither an attack neither personal. It is just a serious statement about the nature of the responses in this thread. If you think that is a personal attack, no wodner that eve is too harsh for you> probably a butterfly flapping its wings near you would be too harsh as well.
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
It's a reality that is common for Incursioners to log in and have the entire focus moved in a matter of hours. Your ignorance of such a simple fact demonstrates your lack of context to effectively debate the situation thereby negating any validity you could have offered to the debate on this aspect.
Aa pooor boy. What do you think happens for people in 0.0 or wormhoel space when their station or POS are attacked? Oo right. They COMMUNICATE and try to solve the issue. I am not ignroant of anything, I used to hunt you guys a lot. I know very well your movement patterns, and know that you guys could easily solve it, if you had a little bit of goodwill.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
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