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Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
3
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Posted - 2015.04.15 22:56:22 -
[361] - Quote
Alexi Stokov wrote:If the PLEX holders are fearful that the PLEX change will occur and possibly lock PLEX to an account, what are you going to need 4000 months of game time for?
Fair point, there is always that risk with any asset (the risk that CCP will nerf it). However, is there reason to think CCP is moving in that direction? The ability to use PLEX for many more things (swap for AUR, give to a friend, multiple training) would indicate they are moving towards more, rather than less, use for PLEX. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4970
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Posted - 2015.04.16 00:08:06 -
[362] - Quote
Noonian Enaka wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:Current plex holders keeping prices up. I know people that have around 4 thousand of plexes they want to sell now.
That is a LOT of bound capital. I am not sure if that amount of capital and it`s associated speculation is healthy for the game economy I was always under the impression, that there is way too much ISK influx past and present. It`s understandable that peolpe are looking for a hedge to put all that ISK in...but wow...at 750 million per Plex we are talking about 3million millions Thats enough to **** over any economy. The more I think about it the more I think it would be good if plex would crash overnight down to the 200ish million mark or lower like it used to be.
4K PLEX is 3T ISK, after factoring in that you couldn't get buy order price for that quantity.
Three trillion ISK is less than one twentieth of one percent of the total player built or looted assets in EVE. There is provably more than six quadrillion (6000 T) in player-built assets without counting blueprints, 'unique' ships and the like.
I expect the PLEX price to trend up slowly over time, punctuated with speculative bumps along the way.
200m days are forever gone. 200m prices occurred when there was a lot less ISK in the economy.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Koniforous
Tauren Transit
226
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Posted - 2015.04.16 02:29:54 -
[363] - Quote
Is it plausible that ccp is the primary entity keeping prices around 800mil? They've said their central bank intervenes when prices increase too fast, but with a new operator, maybe the bank attempts to maintain a steady price against decreases also. Call me a n00b, but it just seems a little far fetched that a pilot or pilot entity can possess enough market force to keep something like plex at a steady ~800mil, but for someone with unbounded access to banned assets and banned accounts it would be an easy thing to accomplish.
Maybe the central bank aims for a specific rate of price growth?
TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending
TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
100
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Posted - 2015.04.16 03:57:19 -
[364] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:Is it plausible that ccp is the primary entity keeping prices around 800mil?
Yes, by being bad.
Lowest Peak-concurrent-user numbers since 2007, with newborn player creation levels back to 2010, along with no increase of (new) players willing to spend real cash on the game, and ever-growing number of bittervets with 2.5 accounts average left in the game will do that for this most interesting commodity.
Elementary zupply und demand, friend.
Quote:They've said their central bank intervenes when prices increase too fast
Oooh, could you be so kind as to direct me to learning more details on this most curious facility? Thank you.
Quote:Maybe the central bank aims for a specific rate of price growth?
Entirely possible and entirely bad - Can artificially create supply and put it on the market to suppress prices, or buy out current supply to hike prices via unlimited ISK facility, subject to their data on new player creation numbers, their habits, and their interest in spending lave on a virtual currency at specific price levels/exchange rates.
You didn't hear me say that, but I'm thinking aloud.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Koniforous
Tauren Transit
227
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Posted - 2015.04.16 05:21:34 -
[365] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Koniforous wrote:They've said their central bank intervenes when prices increase too fast Oooh, could you be so kind as to direct me to learning more details on this most curious facility? Thank you. Google...
TAUTX: Private Bank and Lending
TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
101
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Posted - 2015.04.16 06:32:59 -
[366] - Quote
I'm just trying to stem human interaction, that is all.
Thanks
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5337
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Posted - 2015.04.16 10:09:37 -
[367] - Quote
Alexi Stokov wrote:If the PLEX holders are fearful that the PLEX change will occur and possibly lock PLEX to an account, what are you going to need 4000 months of game time for? Even if this were to happen (unlikely), you'd still be able to convert the PLEX to AUR and trade the AUR in the same way PLEX currently trades. I can't see them locking both and screaming "YOLO" on their way down while people explode with monument shooting rage.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
33828
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Posted - 2015.04.16 12:38:54 -
[368] - Quote
Four thousand PLEX is not that much, considering daily volumes though.
Why do bad threads happen to good people?
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Priest Amarr
Temple's Gate
0
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Posted - 2015.04.16 13:48:09 -
[369] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
In 2013 CCP said they had over 10,000 Plex sitting in holding accounts from confiscated banned characters. CCP also admitted that most of the Plex sold on market ends up sitting unused in character hangers.
I think they have some very valid reasons for taking Plex out of the game and into the AUR market. Many sad speculators when this happens.
The moment Plex's convertibility is gone, so would plex. Why would anybody need plex for if they won't be able to trade it for isk? For paying the subscription? You can directly subscribe with your credit card. For secondary training? No need to plex for that either.
The moment you take plex out of the game CCP would start losing accounts big time. Because plex caters two different types of players at once. Player A spends time to make isk in game so he can play for free, Player B has more real money and not much time so he buys plex and trades it for isk with Player A. Therefore player B's real cash finances player A's game time and player A's in game efforts give Player B a chance to get himself shinny stuff without a sweat. Now take the plex out of this equation and suddenly Player A has to pay real cash for his game time and Player B has to grind in game to make isk. They are both unhappy, they are both gone. So as long as CCP is in it's right mind, plex will stay. They may replace it with something even better though. Maybe add more functionality to it.
Plex sitting in hangars without being used doesn't hurt anybody either. When I took a break I had more than 10 plexes in my hangar. I didn't come back for years and they just stood there. When I finally logged back in I found them where I left. This is what you are talking about, and it's not a problem. I can use them for my game time or sell them for isk. It's my concern not CCP's. CCP already got paid for them in advance. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
102
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Posted - 2015.04.16 13:59:16 -
[370] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Four thousand PLEX is not that much, considering daily volumes though.
Speaking of volumes, it is unavailable pre-2014/07 on eve-markets. http://eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=29668#history
Fuzz works excellently for the short term charting - https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/market/marketdisplay.php?typeid=29668®ionid=10000002
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Alexi Stokov
State War Academy Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2015.04.16 20:45:40 -
[371] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:OMG That stupid Toady guy was right! Quote:The team is looking into removing buying PLEX directly and replacing it with buying AUR which can then be redeemed for a PLEX from the New Eden Store, reducing the current ISK/PLEX/AUR to simply ISK/AUR From Day One of the CSM... no more buying Plex on the market, they want us to use AUR instead.
Here is the reference to changing PLEX |
Hemmo Paskiainen
474
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Posted - 2015.04.16 23:05:29 -
[372] - Quote
Think simple, there's just too few revenue streaming in. I wonder why ccp.... how about: "Ha Ha you should have listned 5 yrs ago"
"Relativity equals time plus momentum: if it can be erased by a single click on a button, would it be worth spending your time?"
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erg cz
Tribal Core
214
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:54:58 -
[373] - Quote
Priest Amarr wrote:Because plex caters two different types of players at once.
Wrong. According to CCP statistics, average PLEX changes 4 owners before it got used. Among those 4 owners are ppl with hundreds or even thousands of PLEXes, who keep prices up. So CCP loses money (your type B players need to buy less plexes cause player A gives him more ISK for one) This quota thing, when you can convert only limited amount of PLEXes into AUR, is simple and effective solution how to make those 2 or 3 speculants rage quit. Rest of the community will happily keep on playing.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5341
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Posted - 2015.04.17 12:33:19 -
[374] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Priest Amarr wrote:Because plex caters two different types of players at once. Wrong. According to CCP statistics, average PLEX changes 4 owners before it got used. Among those 4 owners are ppl with hundreds or even thousands of PLEXes, who keep prices up. So CCP loses money (your type B players need to buy less plexes cause player A gives him more ISK for one) This quota thing, when you can convert only limited amount of PLEXes into AUR, is simple and effective solution how to make those 2 or 3 speculants rage quit. Rest of the community will happily keep on playing. Actually there was a podcast a while back (I'll hunt for it later) with one of the owners of one of the GTC selling websites (I think it was eve-codes) and they were asked about PLEX prices and they stated that there was no real correlation between price of PLEX and PLEX sold. I imagine it's because while people need less PLEX each when the price gets highers, more people are willing to part with real cash for that much more ISK.
As for people trading PLEX, that's what a healthy economy does. It's not a problem that requires a solution, it's a required part of a healthy market. I doubt very much CCP will put in arbitrary limits on or remove the ability to trade PLEX.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Priest Amarr
Temple's Gate
0
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Posted - 2015.04.19 08:54:57 -
[375] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Priest Amarr wrote:Because plex caters two different types of players at once. Wrong. According to CCP statistics, average PLEX changes 4 owners before it got used. Among those 4 owners are ppl with hundreds or even thousands of PLEXes, who keep prices up. So CCP loses money (your type B players need to buy less plexes cause player A gives him more ISK for one) This quota thing, when you can convert only limited amount of PLEXes into AUR, is simple and effective solution how to make those 2 or 3 speculants rage quit. Rest of the community will happily keep on playing.
I said two different types of players, not two different players.
CCP doesn't lose money from high plex prices because people's game budgets are limited to begin with. A person that buys a plex for $19.95 and sells it for 800mil won't start paying $160 if you drop plex prices to 100mil. Instead he'll think 100mil wouldn't worth his 19.95 and stop buying altogether.
Plex prices are not going up because of speculation. It's the inflation. Some people are able to pay trillions of isk for buying thousands of plexus because the in-game economy inflation allows them to reach those wallet sizes. In that case majority of players becomes (relatively) poor, and poorer right? Well, welcome to the reality of inflation based economy. This happens everyday in real world. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
123
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Posted - 2015.04.19 11:40:59 -
[376] - Quote
Priest Amarr wrote:erg cz wrote:Priest Amarr wrote:Because plex caters two different types of players at once. Wrong. According to CCP statistics, average PLEX changes 4 owners before it got used. Among those 4 owners are ppl with hundreds or even thousands of PLEXes, who keep prices up. So CCP loses money (your type B players need to buy less plexes cause player A gives him more ISK for one) This quota thing, when you can convert only limited amount of PLEXes into AUR, is simple and effective solution how to make those 2 or 3 speculants rage quit. Rest of the community will happily keep on playing. I said two different types of players, not two different players. CCP doesn't lose money from high plex prices because people's game budgets are limited to begin with. A person that buys a plex for $19.95 and sells it for 800mil won't start paying $160 if you drop plex prices to 100mil. Instead he'll think 100mil wouldn't worth his 19.95 and stop buying altogether. Plex prices are not going up because of speculation. It's the inflation. Some people are able to pay trillions of isk for buying thousands of plexus because the in-game economy inflation allows them to reach those wallet sizes. In that case majority of players becomes (relatively) poor, and poorer right? Well, welcome to the reality of inflation based economy. This happens everyday in real world.
There is no inflation in this game. It has been said many many times with many many graphics. Eve has been deflationary for more than half a decade. Now even the Faction/DED gear is deflationary.
Falling subscription numbers, free CCP gifts, changes to mining and manufacturing, increased averaged SP and increased availability of drops have made everything in this game deflationary.
Don't believe me? Consult the graph http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65910/1/Indices_2014-02.png
By the way, your statement is completely wrong. There might be an upper limit to how much money the player base will spend because of real life budgets, but just because plex goes to 2bil a piece doesn't mean people will continue to max out their budget.
What you describe is the upper limit of spending, but the bottom limit is zero. I am sure the players using plex for isk would love higher prices, CCP wouldn't though. |
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
108
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Posted - 2015.04.19 18:50:54 -
[377] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: There is no inflation in this game. It has been said many many times with many many graphics. Eve has been deflationary for more than half a decade. Now even the Faction/DED gear is deflationary.
Really now? And the prices of Tritanium, Pyerite & other base basket minerals, which are used to calculate Eve's CPI, have been the same as they were back in 2010?
Pyerite: http://eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=35#history Mexallon: http://eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=36#history
Sold to you!
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
108
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Posted - 2015.04.19 19:24:12 -
[378] - Quote
Priest Amarr wrote: CCP doesn't lose money from high plex prices
They do, actually.
[quote]A person that buys a plex for $19.95 and sells it for 800mil won't start paying $160 if you drop plex prices to 100mil. Instead he'll think 100mil wouldn't worth his 19.95 and stop buying altogether.
A price difference of 8 times is an extreme example - yes at those exchange rates people wouldn't be interested in plex. Now, 800 vs 600 is a lot more reasonable - a 25% decrease in plex "purchasing power", but still within the threshold of providing excellent options.
Since prices topped just short of 1bn ISK, that would constitute a 40% decrease, or 1.66 plexes being needed to purchase the same basket of commodities, compared to just one back in Nov of 2014.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
123
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 04:31:45 -
[379] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: There is no inflation in this game. It has been said many many times with many many graphics. Eve has been deflationary for more than half a decade. Now even the Faction/DED gear is deflationary.
Really now? And the prices of Tritanium, Pyerite & other base basket minerals, which are used to calculate Eve's true CPI, have been the same as they were back in 2010? A forty percent rise on average looks pretty inflationary. Pyerite: http://eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=35#history Mexallon: http://eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=36#history http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html - 1 Tril ISK circa 2012 vs 380bn per day in 2010 entering & staying can also be disregarded? Sold to you! Incidentally, plex really took off, with a lag of a few months, during the advances in Pyerite & Mexallon, beginning around the start of the year 2012.
The mineral index doesn't matter one hill of beans if the total end product prices are still decreasing. It means either the build costs were reduced or the profits on manufacturing were reduced.
CCP has released the inflation numbers and 4 of the 5 indicators are deflationary, with minerals being the only inflationary index.
Sorry, no one cares what the price of minerals are, but we do care how much a T2 missile launcher is... get it? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5343
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 10:27:11 -
[380] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Priest Amarr wrote: CCP doesn't lose money from high plex prices
They do, actually. No they don't. As I said above, when one of the ETC traders was interviewed they stated that the number of codes sold does not change with the price of PLEX, likely either because peopel have a set amount they want to spend or codes or the price increases attract more players buying fewer each for the same total.
GankYou wrote:Since prices topped just short of 1bn ISK, that would constitute a 40% decrease, or 1.66 plexes being required to purchase the same basket of commodities, compared to just one back in Nov of 2014. Prices didn't really top just short of 1bn, at least not steadily. If you look at the PLEX graphs the price suddenly shot up rapidly just prior to the isboxer announcement. To me that was an artificial raise being pushed by someone with enough capital to get the price primed for cashing out around the time the announcement was made (which actually raises questions of who had prior knowledge of the change) as you can see here. Even without any other changes I don't think the price would have stayed there without someone holding it up as it was too sharp a rise to be the natural price increase.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
109
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Posted - 2015.04.20 10:35:09 -
[381] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: The mineral index doesn't matter one hill of beans if the total end product prices are still decreasing. It means either the build costs were reduced or the profits on manufacturing were reduced.
They are still decreasing?
So we still have tier 3 BS @ 140 mil Carriers sub 900 mln ISK Supercarriers @ 21 bn Cruisers sub 10 mil Freighters below 900 mil, most certainly. Titans at 80bn?
Decreasing he said.
Quote:CCP has released the inflation numbers and 4 of the 5 indicators are deflationary, with minerals being the only inflationary index.
Their CPI calculation is irrelevant: they take a Tengu and see a 60% decrease from the price of 1bn - whoah-hey lets put that into the index with an unknown weight attached - presto deflation!
You want to see Eve's CPI metrics, you look at Tech 1 only, which are 80% of the total ships used in New Eden.
All capital ships are Tech 1.
And do address the point of 28 trillion ISK entering & staying per month. ISK can only be "lost", or destroyed by using NPCs' products or services, everything else is just its healthy breathing through the system.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
109
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Posted - 2015.04.20 10:45:41 -
[382] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:GankYou wrote:Priest Amarr wrote: CCP doesn't lose money from high plex prices
They do, actually. No they don't. As I said above, when one of the ETC traders was interviewed they stated that the number of codes sold does not change with the price of PLEX, likely either because peopel have a set amount they want to spend or codes or the price increases attract more players buying fewer each for the same total.
Timeframe has to be taken into account, as we are experienced almost 2007 levels of player activity currently. So it is possible that the ones purchasing plex right now are the only people interested to spend any monies on this game at all.
In an expanding economy with new players taking note of plex everyday, they would lose on sales.
Quote:GankYou wrote:Since prices topped just short of 1bn ISK, that would constitute a 40% decrease, or 1.66 plexes being required to purchase the same basket of commodities, compared to just one back in Nov of 2014. Prices didn't really top just short of 1bn, at least not steadily. If you look at the PLEX graphs the price suddenly shot up rapidly just prior to the isboxer announcement. To me that was an artificial raise being pushed by someone with enough capital to get the price primed for cashing out around the time the announcement was made (which actually raises questions of who had prior knowledge of the change) as you can see here. Even without any other changes I don't think the price would have stayed there without someone holding it up as it was too sharp a rise to be the natural price increase.
"Artifical raise" "Natural price increase"
When I bought out Megacyte and Zydrine Empire-wide on March 20th that was pretty natural, and true price discovery ensued.
It is irrelevant how one views this development - market forces conspired to make it so, and the peak is for everyone to see, especially those who would be trying to retrace those levels.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5343
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 11:14:51 -
[383] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Timeframe has to be taken into account, as we are experienced almost 2007 levels of player activity currently. So it is possible that the ones purchasing plex right now are the only people interested to spend any monies on this game at all. In an expanding economy with new players taking note of plex everyday, they would lose on sales. Like you say, more players taking note of PLEX everyday, on both sides of the market. While a single player may not buy as many PLEX, there's always someone in right behind him saying "last month it wasn't worth my money, but now it is". you also have to account for how many people have a set real money budget and get as much PLEX as they can get for that regardless of how much ISK it turns into.
GankYou wrote:"Artifical raise" "Natural price increase" When I bought out Megacyte and Zydrine Empire-wide on March 20th that was pretty natural, and true price discovery ensued. It is irrelevant how one views this development - market forces conspired to make it so, and the peak is for everyone to see, especially those who would be trying to retrace those levels. Yeah, but when you talk about the price dropping you have to talk about a steady price, not a random peak. I could go and buy out an item, quadrupling it's price n the very short term. After a week it's back to normal. We wouldn't then say in a months time that the item had drastically decreased in price since a month ago, since it was never actually at that price, just pushed up temporarily due to an out of the ordinary trading pattern.
To be honest, I think you know the difference :D
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
109
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:25:27 -
[384] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Yeah, but when you talk about the price dropping you have to talk about a steady price, not a random peak.
Volume hasn't changed during this development. The thing you regard as "random" are actually the markings of fundamental changes, and turns in the market.
It doesn't matter how these peaks and troughs occur, because following a major change, an instrument may not see those prices again for years, even decades.
Most of the time it is characterised by panic selling, or buying.
Quote:I could go and buy out an item, quadrupling it's price n the very short term. After a week it's back to normal.
That only is possible in illiquid markets and commodities.
Quote:We wouldn't then say in a months time that the item had drastically decreased in price since a month ago, since it was never actually at that price
If the volume had stayed the same, and transactions occurred, then yes that price is indeed more than just chart noise.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5343
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:49:32 -
[385] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Volume didn't change during the development leading upto the 1bn ISK mark, and had gone up significantly afterwards - during the crash. The thing you regard as "random" are actually the markings of fundamental changes, and turns in the market. It doesn't matter how these peaks and troughs occur, because following a major change, an instrument may not see those prices again for years, even decades. Most of the time it is characterised by panic selling, or buying. If someone was previously buying and selling each PLEX once and instead switched to just buying twice as much, the price would increase but the volume would remain the same, which is what I believe happened that caused the price to shoot up by nearly 100m in under 2 weeks. As the announcement hit, the volumes then spiked as they cashed out at the inflated price.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
109
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Posted - 2015.04.20 13:01:50 -
[386] - Quote
A 13% rise over that time period in anticipation of significant and fundamental news is entirely healthy.
You need to account for the fact that the stockpile that had been accumulated during the movement has to be sold, in order to bank a profit. With the volume that is required to push prices of this commodity higher, one can argue that the participants only made 5-7% on average, if even that.
Still, 7% on a trillion investment is 70bn ISK.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
109
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Posted - 2015.04.20 13:12:36 -
[387] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: As the announcement hit, the volumes then spiked as they cashed out at the inflated price.
Sell volume. Any buy orders which had not been updated in time had indeed constituted a fair share of the dump - price at that time averages around 896 mln.
As is ordained by the Almighty - some suckers need to be left holding the bag.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5343
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Posted - 2015.04.20 13:26:14 -
[388] - Quote
GankYou wrote:A 13% rise over that time period in anticipation of significant and fundamental news is entirely healthy. You need to account for the fact that the stockpile that had been accumulated during the movement has to be sold, in order to bank a profit. With the volume that is required to push prices of this commodity higher, one can argue that the participants only made 5-7% on average, if even that. Still, 7% on a trillion investment is 70bn ISK. At the time that the prices were rising there was no anticipation of the announcement, it wasn't hinted at prior to Nov 25th. Otherwise I'd agree that the entire market adjusting to a change would cause that. As it wasn't it leads me to believe it was only a couple of individuals at most. I imagine that knowing there was to be a change that would cause a drop in the PLEX price and sitting on a substantial number of PLEX, it would have been impossible to ships that stockpile at with just sell orders and without taking a loss. However by raising the price substantially so that buy orders were significantly higher, the stock could then be dumped onto them, like you say, leaving some suckers holding the bag.
Of course it's all speculation, I simply refuse to believe that the stable price went from mid 800s to high 900s in under 14 days with no announcements of changes pushing it. It just seems like short term manipulation to me.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
109
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Posted - 2015.04.20 13:28:37 -
[389] - Quote
Never under-estimate the madness and delusions of the masses once the final ball gets rolling.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
125
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Posted - 2015.04.20 14:47:10 -
[390] - Quote
GankYou wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: The mineral index doesn't matter one hill of beans if the total end product prices are still decreasing. It means either the build costs were reduced or the profits on manufacturing were reduced.
They are still decreasing? So we still have tier 3 BS @ 140 mil Carriers sub 900 mln ISK Supercarriers @ 21 bn Cruisers sub 10 mil Freighters below 900 mil, most certainly. Titans at 80bn? Quote:CCP has released the inflation numbers and 4 of the 5 indicators are deflationary, with minerals being the only inflationary index. Their CPI calculation is irrelevant: they take a Tengu and see a 60% decrease from the price of 1bn - whoah-hey lets put that into the index with an unknown weight attached - presto deflation! You want to see Eve's CPI metrics, you look at Tech 1 only, which are 80% of the total ships used in New Eden. All capital ships are Tech 1, except for the JFs. And do address the point of 28 trillion ISK entering & staying per month. ISK can only be "lost", or destroyed by using NPCs' products or services, everything else is just its healthy breathing through the system.
You assume two things rather poorly. First that most capitals are bought on the market at all and not simply built (thus not actually being counted in CPI) and second that there is enough capitals to overshadow the pirate BS, Navy BS and module market.
CCP Takes ships and fits them with common fittings, since the price of modules has been decimated over the last years the price of the total package is still low. And yes, many T1 ships have dropped and continue to drop in price.
Also why shouldn't the drop from a 90day post release price of 1bil for a tengu that now sells for 140mil not be included? Inflation is inflation and deflation is deflation. But cherry picking one segment or a handful of ships and declaring their graphs and stats wrong is just bad form.
Also to add, take the archon for example. It is down from a 1000 day stable high of 1.5bil to 1.05bil. http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=23757#history
Yes even capital ships are showing deflationary pressure (See compression changes). Build cost is still 930mil. |
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