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Longtom McGregor
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.11.17 06:21:15 -
[1] - Quote
I've been around for a long time. This is my first post on these forums - ever.
I don't generally complain, but today, I saw a guy camping a gate with a friend, and between them they had FIFTEEN multiboxed characters. Of course, they easily slaughtering anything that came in or out of the gate.
With that kind of money, skills don't matter. Ships don't matter. "Pay to win," indeed.
Now, I'm not trying to complain, but this just made me sad. When I say sad, I mean really, down to my toes sad.
Are we going to have to get a minimum of four accounts and learn how to multibox in order to enjoy the game? Is the difference between success or failure not by skills but by why owns the most payed accounts?
Has it sunk as low as this? |
Marrr quet Whoorrr
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.11.17 06:42:41 -
[2] - Quote
The concept of Pay to win is not valid within Eve
Pay to win is the concept where a player uses real life currency to beat other players who may be inherently better than you within the parameters of the game Usually by means that is unobtainable within the limits of the game if you do not use external ("real" (#eveisreal#ccpseagullweloveyouverymuch#ccpingeneraltoo)) currency
Multiboxing does require a program, or clever use of game windows and multiple computers + sticky tape and sticks to manipulate mass mouse / keyboard strokes
You absolutely do not require multiple characters to play this game, nor enjoy it Yes certain goals are locked behind a minimum player limit but that does not mean you need more toons
Eve is fundamentally a multiplayer game, so go make friends that can all think for themselves instead of just a replicated keystroke
Also you can buy plex >>> multiple accounts, so again...not really pay to win.... |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
487
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Posted - 2014.11.17 06:52:43 -
[3] - Quote
If you want to get deeper in, get more accounts.
You can do it with 3 accounts. 2 if you squeeze it into a niche in dangerous space. Beyond that, a minority of players use 1 account outside highsec.
As you can see by the above post, justifications for doing this will be common in this thread but the reality is that this game now pretty much requires multiple accounts to get deeper into it - that is accepted by the majority of those who play. |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
514
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:01:37 -
[4] - Quote
How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side?
Even if we ignore the collosal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate?
What is the fundamental difference between the two?
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17676
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:11:07 -
[5] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side?
Even if we ignore the collosal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate?
What is the fundamental difference between the two?
Its obvious.
You cant use the words 'Pay to Win' in a gripe about 15 individual people stomping your ***.
Its all about the buzzwords man! Lrn2gripe.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1697
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:16:09 -
[6] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote: How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side? Even if we ignore the colossal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate? What is the fundamental difference between the two?
Because the scout can know what's on the other side without jumping first? And because if you don't have multiple accounts you don't always have a scout handy? Also 15 individual people have a larger chance of human error. And without ISboxer 15 multiboxed accounts have a command lag as they tab through each one.
So, there is a difference between one person ISBoxing 15 accounts and any other scenario.
ISBoxer does violate the spirit of the EULA with regards to not being allowed to use programs that speed up an activity faster than a human could do so. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
938
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:21:50 -
[7] - Quote
Mocam wrote:If you want to get deeper in, get more accounts.
.
And thats the problem with this game.
Wana be better?...buy more accounts wana be unstoppable? buy multibox software
Dont ignore the elephant in the room... Multibox software must die in EVE.
CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
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Prince Kobol
2358
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:27:01 -
[8] - Quote
Marrr quet Whoorrr wrote:
Also you can buy plex >>> multiple accounts, so again...not really pay to win....
So are you saying that buying plexes to obtain more accounts and then buying multiboxing software is not pay to win? |
Toxicblu3
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
1
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:32:06 -
[9] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Mocam wrote:If you want to get deeper in, get more accounts.
. And thats the problem with this game. Wana be better?...buy more accounts wana be unstoppable? buy multibox software Dont ignore the elephant in the room... Multibox software must die in EVE.
Will never happen. Too much money to be had from people paying subs and using plex to have those accounts.
CCP is a business.
Actually the mmo market in general is plagued with multiboxing for the most part. The unforunate thing though is that most of the other ones im thinking of are almost entirely pve focused, and eve is not.
Still.. If it keeps a 10+ year old game going strong with content updates every few months I dont mind dealing with it. Of course this is coming from a guy that has had several accounts over the years, doesn't remember all the login info's, and has had more inactive time than actual subscription time on all of them. |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
514
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:33:26 -
[10] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:So are you saying that buying plexes to obtain more accounts [...] is not pay to win?
You have lost your mind.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
514
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:41:19 -
[11] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Because the scout can know what's on the other side without jumping first?
A scout is expendable. A scout dies so your assets don't have to.
Quote:And because if you don't have multiple accounts you don't always have a scout handy?
Friends don't cost any money. Also, you get 3 pilots per account and gate camps don't assemble in mere minutes.
Quote:Also 15 individual people have a larger chance of human error. And without ISboxer 15 multiboxed accounts have a command lag as they tab through each one.
In certain activities such as mining and bombing multiboxers are better than individual pilots because they effectively bypass the logistical difficulties of a squad of individuals. I disagree that gate camps are one of these activities.
Thread starter should never have been in that situation to begin with. |
Josef Djugashvilis
2677
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:46:12 -
[12] - Quote
[quote=Jvpiter]
How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side?
Even if we ignore the collosal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate?
What is the fundamental difference between the two?
[/quote
Perhaps it because it takes more effort to organize fifteen people to death camp a gate than for two multi-boxers to death camp a gate?
This is not a signature.
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Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
379
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Posted - 2014.11.17 07:54:19 -
[13] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:
Friends don't cost any money. Also, you get 3 pilots per account and gate camps don't assemble in mere minutes.
You are aware that you can use only one character at a time per account, right ? That means each of those characters is it's own account.
Though I don't see ISB or other similar software as a problem in it self. I see it as problem in that there could had been 14 more actual players in gate camp and that takes way the M in MMO and that can't be a good thing for EVE in the long run. |
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
184
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Posted - 2014.11.17 08:08:40 -
[14] - Quote
hey look a new isboxer thread!
also since plex, eve turn to pay2win (buy gtc > sell plex > buy toon/ship/mods)
also check Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Star Conflict (warning it's a pay2win but can be fun if you found good wingmen)
oh btw i used isboxer so i pay2win too
Keeping active account just to shitpost
there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !
CCP Fozzie : AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power
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Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
815
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Posted - 2014.11.17 08:09:15 -
[15] - Quote
EVE Online is an old MMO that has old consepts. One of those concepts is that gank trumps all.
3 guys, 15 ships. 15 guys, 15 ships. People gank because it works. If it was new I could better appreciate your story but it's as old as EVE. |
Toxicblu3
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.17 08:11:07 -
[16] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Jvpiter wrote:
Friends don't cost any money. Also, you get 3 pilots per account and gate camps don't assemble in mere minutes.
You are aware that you can use only one character at a time per account, right ? That means each of those characters is it's own account. Though I don't see ISB or other similar software as a problem in it self. I see it as problem in that there could had been 14 more actual players in gate camp and that takes way the M in MMO and that can't be a good thing for EVE in the long run.
Hes talking about logging off your main, logging on an alt, scanning the gate from the contact side, logging off the alt, logging back into the main, and jumping through.
Tedious but if your jumping anything of value its better than the alternative |
Jvpiter
Jovelike
520
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Posted - 2014.11.17 08:12:52 -
[17] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Perhaps it because it takes more effort to organize fifteen people to death camp a gate than for two multi-boxers to death camp a gate?
No one should amend the EULA to account for a person's lack of ability to rally corpies to do something.
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Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
1266
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Posted - 2014.11.17 10:35:27 -
[18] - Quote
Longtom McGregor wrote:I've been around for a long time.
I don't generally complain, but today, I saw a guy camping a gate with a friend, and between them they had FIFTEEN multiboxed characters.
You've been around a long time, and this is one of the first times that you've run into a gatecamp with 2 people 7-8 ships each.
Sounds to me like, by your own statements, this is not a common issue. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
21640
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Posted - 2014.11.17 10:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Longtom McGregor wrote:Are we going to have to get a minimum of four accounts and learn how to multibox in order to enjoy the game? Is the difference between success or failure not by skills but by why owns the most payed accounts? No.
One character. Avoid the gate.
Simple problem solved and no kills for them.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
554
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Posted - 2014.11.17 11:06:25 -
[20] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Mocam wrote:If you want to get deeper in, get more accounts.
. And thats the problem with this game. Wana be better?...buy more accounts wana be unstoppable? buy multibox software And this is not just about "to have some advantage" in game (like offgrid booster or something). In case of pvp, for example bombing runs in bombers, multibox software have a waaay too huge advantage. In fact, being a human, piloting your multiple ships, is a major disadvantage. Dont ignore the elephant in the room... Multibox software must die in EVE.
You make it sound like Eve is a single-player game. I think you need to re-check on that and go wreck faces with friends.
Almethea wrote:hey look a new isboxer thread!
also since plex, eve turn to pay2win (buy gtc > sell plex > buy toon/ship/mods)
also check Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Star Conflict (warning it's a pay2win but can be fun if you found good wingmen)
oh btw i used isboxer so i pay2win too
By this definition, every single subscriber service is pay2win as you cannot play, watch the movies or download music without paying first. |
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F3X5ON
Zero Fun Allowed
20
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Posted - 2014.11.17 11:24:48 -
[21] - Quote
isboxer is strenght isboxer is love |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
524
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Posted - 2014.11.17 11:55:57 -
[22] - Quote
You guys are missing something. The CFC are pay2win! Honestly look at them with their 30,000 members! They are literally pay2win with that amount of people against my special snowflake of a character! I demand nerfs to friends and social structures so I can own all of sov space!
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services CAStabouts
192
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Posted - 2014.11.17 12:10:19 -
[23] - Quote
MMO, Massive Multiboxing Online. It's no longer about playing with others, it's about playing with yourself in front of others |
Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
3
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Posted - 2014.11.17 12:53:17 -
[24] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote: Also, you get 3 pilots per account and gate camps don't assemble in mere minutes.
clever and effective ones do actually. Their scout sees a scout come through, ... then the rest warp to gate (or decloak) and boom. |
Angeal MacNova
The Scope Gallente Federation
248
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Posted - 2014.11.17 12:58:05 -
[25] - Quote
Yes it has sunk that low. EvE became P2W the moment PLEX happened. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
594
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Posted - 2014.11.17 13:20:49 -
[26] - Quote
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:It's no longer about playing with others, it's about playing with yourself in front of others
It's all fun and games until the police arrive. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9023
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Posted - 2014.11.17 13:22:14 -
[27] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Jvpiter wrote: How did you encounter a gate camp? Why would any of your assets jump a gate without knowing what's on the other side? Even if we ignore the colossal mistake that you made, which is hard to do, do you think you would have survived fifteen individual people at that gate? What is the fundamental difference between the two?
Because the scout can know what's on the other side without jumping first? And because if you don't have multiple accounts you don't always have a scout handy? Also 15 individual people have a larger chance of human error. And without ISboxer 15 multiboxed accounts have a command lag as they tab through each one. So, there is a difference between one person ISBoxing 15 accounts and any other scenario. ISBoxer does violate the spirit of the EULA with regards to not being allowed to use programs that speed up an activity faster than a human could do so.
The 'scout' is expendable, that's why it's a scout.
As to the second point, there is this new invention called "other human beings" that are like even better than alts. While i'm sure CCP will get around to nerfing these 'other people' things one day (it's on the schedule after fixing the pos code), for right now they are seriously over powered.
And what does "human error" matter in a gate camp? "Oh gee, I only have 14 scrams on me instead of 15.... NOW'S MY CHANCE!!".
And theie is ZERO "command lag when you have 15 accounts going with 2 shooters (one of which is a hictor), 12 in drone ships (6 each assigning sentries to the 2 'shooters') and 1 ship to sensor boost the hictor. Anyone can do that without isboxer and if things go south, the FC can fleet warp everything.
Isboxer is a pain in the ass to use (if it wasn't I would be isboxing missions and anomalies) and regardless of your incorrect interpretation of the 'spirit' of the EULA, the only people who matter in this (CCP) says it's ok for people to use this thing in their game. I don't much care for it but I'm not going to pretend it's not something that is allowed either.
If we are talking low sec, then it's only the OPs fault that he got caught by a gate camp. This game gives us a million and one ways to avoid and ignore such things and if you don't use them, that is your fault. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
209
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Posted - 2014.11.17 13:29:20 -
[28] - Quote
Why just last night goons drop on us with 100 or so harpys. But i don't have 100 friends. It is soo unfair. Nurf friends now!
I should be able to win by myself, and get sov and never lose a ship. Oh and while i am at it, why are titans soo expensive. Its totally pay to win. How can one person ever afford to mine or mission that much.
Eve is a MMO. MMOs are like sex. Sure you can go solo, but it is more fun in a group.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9024
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Posted - 2014.11.17 13:29:46 -
[29] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Yes it has sunk that low. EvE became P2W the moment PLEX happened.
Ah, so the day CCP introduced a thing that is the thing that probably let EVE ONline survive as a viable product (because it is a product and products need to make money for their owners, CCP revenues were "anemic" before plex) was somehow a bad day huh?
I've played pay to win games where money unlocked things other people could not get via playing. PLEX doesn't do that, all it does is allow people to trade time for money with other players (ie I have lots of time to grind pve, plex allows me to trade my time for someone else's money). Real p2w is an actual game mechanic (you give the game company money, they give you a mechanical in game advantage).
At this point, if I had to pay a sub and THEN grind in game money to do things in game, I myself wouldn't be playing EVE after all these years (or wouldn't be doing it with 4 accounts at least). PLEX has kept me in the game by allowing me access to the game via doing what I enjoy (PVE).
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Prince Kobol
2359
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Posted - 2014.11.17 13:40:34 -
[30] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Isboxer is a pain in the ass to use (if it wasn't I would be isboxing missions and anomalies)
I have to pull you up one this one point. It really inst a pain in the ass. It is actually incredibly easy.
There are even overview settings and guides you can download specifically to be used with ISBoxer depending on what you are doing, Incursions, Mining, Mission Runner, Ratting, PvP etc..
Just go on Youtube and search for ISboxer Eve Guides.. it is very easy.
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