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Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:06:40 -
[1] - Quote
I started playing this game 5 years ago for a period of 2 years. I often got frustrated because a) the connection was poor and b) my computer overheated, but enjoyed it nonetheless.
I decide to have a 3-year break. I come here with a new 1.5k computer with brand new broadband as well with 35mbps wifi on my laptop... and I come on and I get ******* constant 'packet loss' errors and I get ditched by the client every 5 minutes or so.
Well, this game is unplayable for me. At least it was only -ú7 as opposed to -ú10... but seriously, what's happened to make the connection even worse than it was 3 years ago? |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
6372
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:09:04 -
[2] - Quote
I don't know what happened to your ISP since you last time played. I have WiFi and everything is ok.
Recon makes them stronger
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5198
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:09:28 -
[3] - Quote
I'd bring your problems up with the ISP and ask them what they're doing with your packages.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
23
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:10:03 -
[4] - Quote
>blaming CCP for your bad internet |
Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:10:37 -
[5] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:I'd bring your problems up with the ISP and ask them what they're doing with your packages.
i've made a ticket with two documents containing diagnostics data... hopefully this will solve it |
Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:11:23 -
[6] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:>blaming CCP for your bad internet
my internet isn't bad... CCP's overly sensitive network is bad, the rest of my internet works perfectly fine and the eve client ditches me. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17697
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:13:15 -
[7] - Quote
DAM U CCP!! Y U NO FIX MAI ISP!!!!! DAM U ALL TO HEK!!!!
I R UNSUB 4 REASONZ! GRRRRRRRRRRRR CLOASED PACKET LOSS SOCKET ERROR LAUNCHER!!!!!
On a serious note, when you are finally able to log in, perhaps a transfer of your assets to me is in order?
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
484
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:14:14 -
[8] - Quote
I run two clients on a 7 year old system with 2GB RAM over an translation layer (wine) in Linux which uses a ZFS raidZ which consumes probably half of that RAM already.
I don't think your problem has something to do with the EVE client. I have hardly ever seen a game that runs so smooth (recent DDOS incidents excluded).
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Paranoid Loyd
2654
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:15:46 -
[9] - Quote
Are you sure it's plugged in? Have you tried turning it off and them back on again?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10633
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:15:53 -
[10] - Quote
I run this game off of a local internet provider, with a relatively cheap router. Eve works fine for me, barring obvious outages, and I typically run two or three clients at once.
But then I actually bother with things like port forwarding, network optimization, and such.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
7222
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:36:22 -
[11] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:35mbps wifi on my laptop... and I come on and I get ******* constant 'packet loss' errors and I get ditched by the client every 5 minutes or so.
Aesiron wrote: 35mbps wifi on my laptop...
Houston, I think we've discovered the problem.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17699
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:38:17 -
[12] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Houston, I think we've discovered the problem.
I was just in Houston, playing Eve on my business laptop, with cheesy hotel Wifi.. Houston isn't the problem.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:40:36 -
[13] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:DAM U CCP!! Y U NO FIX MAI ISP!!!!! DAM U ALL TO HEK!!!!
I R UNSUB 4 REASONZ! GRRRRRRRRRRRR CLOASED PACKET LOSS SOCKET ERROR LAUNCHER!!!!!
On a serious note, when you are finally able to log in, perhaps a transfer of your assets to me is in order?
I can log in I just can't sustain more than 5 minutes online. So don't try to be funny it makes you look stupid. Also it is CCP's fault because I've tried it on two separate wifi networks and the same problem occurs. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
7222
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:42:12 -
[14] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Houston, I think we've discovered the problem. I was just in Houston, playing Eve on my business laptop, with cheesy hotel Wifi.. Houston isn't the problem.
To be fair, just everyone's been in Houston.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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Paranoid Loyd
2656
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:55:18 -
[15] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:So don't try to be funny it makes you look stupid. Blaming the problem on CCP makes you look stupid.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
155
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Posted - 2014.11.17 19:59:36 -
[16] - Quote
I hardly fi d it is the ips issue as most days mg net is fine and other days I get disconnect with socket closed every hour at a specific point is inc I have my first socket closed at 2035 I can expect my next socket closed at 2135.
And another reason I know it isn't isp, because it would affect other online games and even net browsing as the socket closed on eve often kicks the net connection offline as it reconnects and only happens when I'm on eve.
I also dont believe the garbage ccp tries to feed us about our data getting lost and that its not ddos/ other attacks Kinda like the alien guy meme
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Xavier Holtzman
Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension
224
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:01:05 -
[17] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:I started playing this game 5 years ago for a period of 2 years. I often got frustrated because a) the connection was poor and b) my computer overheated, but enjoyed it nonetheless.
I decide to have a 3-year break. I come here with a new 1.5k computer with brand new broadband as well with 35mbps wifi on my laptop... and I come on and I get ******* constant 'packet loss' errors and I get ditched by the client every 5 minutes or so.
Well, this game is unplayable for me. At least it was only -ú7 as opposed to -ú10... but seriously, what's happened to make the connection even worse than it was 3 years ago? You're right! It is totally ridiculous that you would blame CCP for your ISPs problems.
Also ... WIFI lol!
I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it.
- Bill Frug
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
7222
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:03:55 -
[18] - Quote
Xavier Holtzman wrote:
Also ... WIFI lol!
Next thing the OP is probably going to tell us is that he's still using the launcher.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17700
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:08:31 -
[19] - Quote
Aesiron wrote: So don't try to be funny it makes you look stupid.
Yoda wrote:Do or do not, there is no try. Also, blame CCP not. Your ISP's problem it is.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5512
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:09:48 -
[20] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:>blaming CCP for your bad internet my internet isn't bad... CCP's overly sensitive network is bad, the rest of my internet works perfectly fine and the eve client ditches me.
Umm, I'm afraid it *is* your internet that is bad. CCP isn't singling you out.
Somewhere between your laptop and the on-ramps to the internet superhighway of the future, someone with about your level of networking expertise seems to be mismanaging things and causing your issue.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic Did he say Jump
114
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:10:02 -
[21] - Quote
This is what happens when you have internet made of Gallentean hussies.
You should upgrade to Amarr!
Gÿå The Explorer I
Gÿå The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
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DaReaper
Net 7
1296
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:29:37 -
[22] - Quote
1) is it just eve or when yoru client drops do you have internet to say facebook or yahoo or something?
That will help determin the issue.
A little story:
When my wife and I moved into my in laws house to help out my mother in law (RIP) we upgraded there ****** 1.2mb dsl to 40mb cable from Comcast. had issues of random d/c's for a few months then ordered a new modem... issues got worse. But I ignored it. One night I was playing star craft 2 and my mother in law was on net flix and the wife was playing a facebook game when all three of us disconnected. So I called Comcast and after getting a small run around, finally got the issue corrected, they had not added my new modem to the network, so it would occasionally drop. The things that took the brunt the most was eve and Netflix, facebook would seem to lag a bit then move past after a few seconds. So odds are the issue is your isp.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:32:35 -
[23] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Aesiron wrote:So don't try to be funny it makes you look stupid. Blaming the problem on CCP makes you look stupid.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Aesiron wrote: So don't try to be funny it makes you look stupid. Yoda wrote:Do or do not, there is no try. Also, blame CCP not. Your ISP's problem it is.
It clearly is, because CCP admit they have 'more sensitive than usual networks' which is why I can still operate online while I suffer from packet losses. I want CCP to sort this out, no other MMO I know of has this issue. And even then when I played 3 years ago my connection was fine.
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Paranoid Loyd
2657
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:36:12 -
[24] - Quote
It clearly is not as I rarely if ever have any connection issues.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1282
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:39:33 -
[25] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:It clearly is, because CCP admit they have 'more sensitive than usual networks' which is why I can still operate online while I suffer from packet losses. I want CCP to sort this out, no other MMO I know of has this issue. And even then when I played 3 years ago my connection was fine.
EVE doesn't do well if there's heavy or demanding network traffic while it's running. If you're running torrents (especially), streaming, or something similar, EVE will complain about closed sockets all the time.
People here are chuckling about wifi, but not only do I run EVE just fine over WiFi to a DSL connection, but when a heavy storm took that down last year I ran it just fine over a WiFi tether to a 3G phone. Absolute bandwidth isn't the issue. EVE doesn't take up much. It just doesn't like to share, and it doesn't like to wait very long at all for a response.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:41:01 -
[26] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:It clearly is not as I rarely if ever have any connection issues.
does it maybe frighten you to know that connections vary from place to place? EVE's connection isn't the same everywhere, and why should I have to mess with my ISP/router when it's clearly CCP's 'fragile network'. |
Paranoid Loyd
2657
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:46:39 -
[27] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:It clearly is not as I rarely if ever have any connection issues. does it maybe frighten you to know that connections vary from place to place? EVE's connection isn't the same everywhere, and why should I have to mess with my ISP/router when it's clearly CCP's 'fragile network'. I'm not sure what you mean, we all connect to the same server.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5512
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:52:55 -
[28] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:
It clearly is, because CCP admit they have 'more sensitive than usual networks' which is why I can still operate online while I suffer from packet losses. I want CCP to sort this out, no other MMO I know of has this issue. And even then when I played 3 years ago my connection was fine.
If CCP tell you their software is sensitive to packet loss, and you admit your network has packet loss, why is it CCP's problem?
And what is this about 3 years ago your connection was fine? Your OP said that your connection was bad back then too.
Seriously - the problem is either on your end or your ISP's end. CCP may be able to help you track it down, but it still won't be anything they can fix for you.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all.
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Marsha Mallow
1696
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:53:56 -
[29] - Quote
If you're using BT, it's them. Someone ingame keeps whinging about packet loss and apparently spent hours on the phone squealing at them recently with no result. You'll get more helpful responses in Issues & Workarounds btw, no point having a tantrum in General Drama.
DON'T BE RIDICULOUS!
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Ajunta Pal
Sith Wannabies Annonymous
11
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:54:39 -
[30] - Quote
If you really have tried it on two seperate wifi networks, the next question, have you tried it on a starbux or mcdonalds wifi network? (so its a different isp) wifi is really bad when it comes to packet loss, if you lose too many packets you will get dropped, YOU losing the packets, not CCP background internet activity, torrents, regular downloads, audio/video streaming, will all increase the chance of dropped packets.
my recommendation, try pluging in the lan cable and seeing if you still get dropped, if you still get dropped you will have ruled out that it is your wifi, if you stop being droped then its your wifi
next step assuming you are still being dropped would be to test it on a seperate isp, maybe go over to a friends house - if its happening on multiple ISPs then it might really be CCPs fault (chances are its the internet not CCP)
This problem used to happen to me back when I played everquest, it even happened when I played a free WoW trial - solution for me, it was my lan card drivers, I had an "off" brand lan-card and once I installed compatible "on" brand drivers I stopped dropping, took a closer look, and the dropped packet policies for the two drivers were different, the off brand ignored dropped packets while the on brand retransmited dropped packets
please don't blame the problem on ccp, if it was ccp we would all be suffering from this problem, and even then it would be more likely to be an internet problem in general or a ddos than for it to be ccp |
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Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:55:52 -
[31] - Quote
Ajunta Pal wrote:If you really have tried it on two seperate wifi networks, the next question, have you tried it on a starbux or mcdonalds wifi network? (so its a different isp) wifi is really bad when it comes to packet loss, if you lose too many packets you will get dropped, YOU losing the packets, not CCP background internet activity, torrents, regular downloads, audio/video streaming, will all increase the chance of dropped packets.
my recommendation, try pluging in the lan cable and seeing if you still get dropped, if you still get dropped you will have ruled out that it is your wifi, if you stop being droped then its your wifi
next step assuming you are still being dropped would be to test it on a seperate isp, maybe go over to a friends house - if its happening on multiple ISPs then it might really be CCPs fault (chances are its the internet not CCP)
This problem used to happen to me back when I played everquest, it even happened when I played a free WoW trial - solution for me, it was my lan card drivers, I had an "off" brand lan-card and once I installed compatible "on" brand drivers I stopped dropping, took a closer look, and the dropped packet policies for the two drivers were different, the off brand ignored dropped packets while the on brand retransmited dropped packets
please don't blame the problem on ccp, if it was ccp we would all be suffering from this problem, and even then it would be more likely to be an internet problem in general or a ddos than for it to be ccp
So why is this suddenly a problem now?
3 years ago I had a worse network which disconnected every time the ****** phone rang, now I have fibre optic, I have a wifi extender about 3 feet away from my computer and I get disconnected now? What's happened in 3 years to make CCP's tolerance for wifi drop sky low? |
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
190
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:57:29 -
[32] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Houston, I think we've discovered the problem. I was just in Houston, playing Eve on my business laptop, with cheesy hotel Wifi.. Houston isn't the problem.
In Texas it is referred to as a Biddnis laptop. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17701
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Posted - 2014.11.17 20:57:34 -
[33] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:If CCP tell you their software is sensitive to packet loss, and you admit your network has packet loss, why is it CCP's problem?
Thank you. You had me at common sense.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2709
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Issues, Workarounds & Localization.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Ajunta Pal
Sith Wannabies Annonymous
11
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:05:43 -
[35] - Quote
thats exactly it, NOTHING happened with CCP
your wifi extender should be closer to your wifi router than your PC, its probably not helping cause if its 3 feet from your pc its only extending your wifi by 3 feet
the problem could be potentially with many things
on your end 1) wifi (something wrong with the drivers, the card itself, or lots of background interference) 2) drivers/settings on your comp 3) local network topography (crappy hardware, crappy settings on the hardware)
on your isp 1) simultaneous active connection limits 2) throttling (which includes the above) 3) crappy hardware (modem in your home, router outside your home, etc) 4) crappy network topography
the internets 1) crappy network topography 2) crappy hardware on the path your isp is taking to get you to ccp 3) ddos attacks
ccp same as all the above, everyone would be suffering from the same problem, not just you, not a handful, not hundreds....EVERYONE |
Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:18:46 -
[36] - Quote
Ajunta Pal wrote:thats exactly it, NOTHING happened with CCP
your wifi extender should be closer to your wifi router than your PC, its probably not helping cause if its 3 feet from your pc its only extending your wifi by 3 feet
the problem could be potentially with many things
on your end 1) wifi (something wrong with the drivers, the card itself, or lots of background interference) 2) drivers/settings on your comp 3) local network topography (crappy hardware, crappy settings on the hardware)
on your isp 1) simultaneous active connection limits 2) throttling (which includes the above) 3) crappy hardware (modem in your home, router outside your home, etc) 4) crappy network topography
the internets 1) crappy network topography 2) crappy hardware on the path your isp is taking to get you to ccp 3) ddos attacks
ccp same as all the above, everyone would be suffering from the same problem, not just you, not a handful, not hundreds....EVERYONE
does an ethernet cable fix this probl+½m |
Ajunta Pal
Sith Wannabies Annonymous
11
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:22:58 -
[37] - Quote
possibly, all I can say is try it, if it does then its something with your wifi, if it doesn't then you've ruled out that its your wifi
there are some drivers and services on windows PCs that effect both wifi and lan - those would be the next things to check
after that I would try turning off all firewall/internet protection services on any routers you may have - they sometimes interfere with connection quality |
Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:24:27 -
[38] - Quote
Ajunta Pal wrote:possibly, all I can say is try it, if it does then its something with your wifi, if it doesn't then you've ruled out that its your wifi
there are some drivers and services on windows PCs that effect both wifi and lan - those would be the next things to check
after that I would try turning off all firewall/internet protection services on any routers you may have - they sometimes interfere with connection quality
tengo un mac, i dont have antivirus
but could the mac be diffusing packets around the globe like mayhem? |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
485
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:33:08 -
[39] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:does an ethernet cable fix this probl+½m I would certainly try just to rule out the wifi. Where I live the standard box you get for the internet access has wifi enabled by default. There are only so many channels and the radio spectra of them are already overlapping. If you live in a flat with many neighbors close by that will have a significant impact on your wifi connection. There are apps for mobile phones who can show you the utilization of the channels and if that may be the problem.
Also stop downloading **** while playing EVE.
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Ajunta Pal
Sith Wannabies Annonymous
11
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:35:40 -
[40] - Quote
its possible, at a basic level all computers work the same mac diffusing packets wouldn't really be accurate, hubs and wifi both send packets "globally" in the case of a hub, everyone on the network gets every packet in the case of wifi, everyone in range gets every packet
ya, not worried about anti-virus, macs iirc do have a built in firewall, just like windows - those settings not being right could cause the problem
did you try the physical cable?
-its difficult to diagnose problems when you aren't sitting there with the other person I'm really only trying to suggest diagnostic steps to find out what the problem really is |
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Aesiron
Viziam Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:44:12 -
[41] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Aesiron wrote:does an ethernet cable fix this probl+½m I would certainly try just to rule out the wifi. Where I live the standard box you get for the internet access has wifi enabled by default. There are only so many channels and the radio spectra of them are already overlapping. If you live in a flat with many neighbors close by that will have a significant impact on your wifi connection. There are apps for mobile phones who can show you the utilization of the channels and if that may be the problem. Also stop downloading **** while playing EVE.
im not downloading anything while playing EVE.
and my bad it's not 'packet loss' its 'socket loss/bad socket' |
Xercodo
Vector Galactic Did he say Jump
3841
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Posted - 2014.11.17 21:48:39 -
[42] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:It clearly is not as I rarely if ever have any connection issues. does it maybe frighten you to know that connections vary from place to place? EVE's connection isn't the same everywhere, and why should I have to mess with my ISP/router when it's clearly CCP's 'fragile network'.
I highly doubt CCP has ANYTHING to do with the ISP in your are of the world....unless you live in the UK where I hear the server is actually maintained. There is only one server for all of EVE (Sisi is a test server and Serenity is only for China) so unless something is happening to EVERYONE it's just you bro.
Sometimes a lot of people get dced at once. Those tend to be DDOS attacks that CCP can't do much about. Sometimes a regional ISP fucks up, especially on the hop over the Atlantic, still not CCP's problem. Do a traceroute to the server, find the derp in the middle ******* it up.
The Drake is a Lie
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
17702
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Posted - 2014.11.17 22:28:37 -
[43] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:
and my bad it's not 'packet loss' its 'socket loss/bad socket'
Have you seen this?
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
485
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Posted - 2014.11.18 00:39:31 -
[44] - Quote
Aesiron wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Aesiron wrote:does an ethernet cable fix this probl+½m I would certainly try just to rule out the wifi. Where I live the standard box you get for the internet access has wifi enabled by default. There are only so many channels and the radio spectra of them are already overlapping. If you live in a flat with many neighbors close by that will have a significant impact on your wifi connection. There are apps for mobile phones who can show you the utilization of the channels and if that may be the problem. Also stop downloading **** while playing EVE. im not downloading anything while playing EVE. and my bad it's not 'packet loss' its 'socket loss/bad socket' Have you tried the cable yet?
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Jurico Elemenohpe
Laughing Coffin's Surely You're Joking
12
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Posted - 2014.11.18 03:37:16 -
[45] - Quote
I haven't had Socket closed since before the DDOS attacks (what if the ddos attacks were a cover up for ccp to secretly replace the hamsters?). As the thread somewhere in this says, it's something to do with one of the middle ISPs. |
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