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Pottsey
Gallente Dissonance Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.05 11:52:00 -
[1]
ôWow... the vulture is a god of a tank vs Therm/Kin.ö DonÆt forgot anyone flying a Vulture will most likely have a mindlink and gang assist active both of which boost the passive tank a lot.
Passive shield tanking guide, click here. |
Pottsey
Gallente Dissonance Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.05 12:50:00 -
[2]
ôIf you run out of cap or have to sacrifice SPR's for PDS's then an active tank is your best bet...ö Unless youÆre doing PvP then the PDS are best. Your numbers are very useful but there are a few problems. Your not taking into account hitpoints or the HP regen curve. Having high hitpoints means you spend longer at a high regen. ThatÆs why extenders are often better then shield recharges. Say someone hits my PDS ship for 1000 hitpoints I might drop from 33% regen to 32% regen while a shield relay ship would drop from 33% to 29% lowering its regen. So higher hitpoints mean you take longer to get down to 30% and you spend longer in the area of high regen 15 to 60%+.
In short to medium battles your better off with hitpoint based setups. In long battles or battles where you tank holds regen is better. Its not a clear-cut case of shield relays are better then PDS. It all depends on your enemy.
If you really want to compare ships you have to add hitpoints into the formula.
Passive shield tanking guide, click here. |
Pottsey
Gallente Dissonance Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.05 18:03:00 -
[3]
öBy adding an extender you are sacrificing a resist mod or shield boost amp (the other other mids worth using really). This means that to get the added shield HP you're sacrificing resists or shield boosting bonus. This means that although your max regen area is larger, you leave that area quicker.ö I never said anything about using more extenders. I meant using PDS over relays. Your numbers make PDS look worse but often they are better. Well not always.
öThe proportional gain you get for having a large max regen area is offset by the proportionally higher damage you take or the proportionally less shield regen you have.ö Did you even test that? First use PDS over shield relay and your not taking extra damage. As for the max regen area is offset by less shield regen thatÆs sometimes true sometimes not. All depends on the length of the battle and how much DPS you are taking from the enemy. See the other thread for more details.
öI've looked at this from more angles than you realize and the added hp doesn't mean anything. If you take less damage or regen proportionally faster than the added hp it means you are able to last longer which means you have a better tank.ö I think thatÆs the problem, at a guess I would say you only looking at this from lots of angles and not doing and real testing. Anyone who says added hp doesn't mean anything clearly hasnÆt looked at it from all the angles and has not done any real combat testing. I have and my results say sometimes HP regen is better sometimes Hitpoints are better. If the HP regen tank does not outlast the Hitpoint tank then itÆs not as good and there are plenty of examples and times when the HP regen tank dies first.
Passive shield tanking guide, click here. |
Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.11 07:09:00 -
[4]
ôWith 30k Shields you wouldn't use an extender, you'd use Shield Regen II's.ö For real combat the extender works out better most of the time. Its only in the math that the shield rechargeÆs are good.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.11 19:07:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Pottsey on 11/12/2006 19:09:37 ôIf your focus is PvP that is fine, however, in PvE the math is correct on this matter. A large HP buffer doesn't mean as much in PvE as it does in PvP. If you disagree that is fine, you can continue to throw Extenders on ships with 30k shields and get your 8-9% benefit. I'll tell you that the math shows it's not the right move... and you can be Stephen Colbert and tell me that your gut tells you it's the right answer ö WhoÆs Stephen Colbert? Anyway hereÆs some math of survival time using my two Domi setups. The only difference is one has max PDS and the other has max relays. You math says always use 7 relays lets see what happens. Not done this for so long I donÆt actually know at what point the PDS setups is better.
Ship A hitpoint ship Ship B regen ship
Against 250 DPS ship A lasts 802 seconds and Ship B cannot die Against 300 DPS ship A lasts 495 seconds and Ship B lasts 1761 seconds Against 400 DPS ship A lasts 280 seconds and Ship B lasts 369 seconds Against 500 DPS ship A lasts 195 seconds and Ship B lasts 203 seconds Against 550 DPS ship A lasts 170 seconds and Ship B lasts 166 seconds Against 600 DPS ship A lasts 150 seconds and Ship B lasts 141 seconds Against 800 DPS ship A lasts 102 seconds and Ship B lasts 87 seconds Against 1000 DPS ship A lasts 77 seconds and Ship B lasts 63 seconds
All numbers rounded down. I think itÆs clear anything under 500dps and the shield regen ship is better anything over 550dps and the hitpoint ship is better. ItÆs not a clear cut case of one setups it always better. If youÆre dealing with more then 600dps then the hitpoint ships has extra time to kill the rats and lower the incoming DPS.
Above is assuming rats hit all 4 resistanceÆs the same. Also I am surprise by these results last time I ran the math it was more extreme in that the gap between the two ships was larger on both ends of the scale.
Also for the record I take a middle ground between the two setups for PvE. Unless its PvP then pure hitpoints. Most of the PvE I do is in the 1300 to 1500 range but I dont use my domi for that.
EDIT: Guess I should have taken out 1 extender and tried one shield recharger T2. But that means a long auto pilot. I will only do that if someone wants to see what happens. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.11 20:23:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Pottsey on 11/12/2006 20:25:45 öBut if you compare PDS and SPR on one of my Drake setups that can tank 400 dps instead of 300 without breaking then the numbers change substantially.ö I cannot fly a Drake and never really looked at the numbers. If you have time could you post the hitpoints, resistance and HP regen of both setups? Both the shield relays, extenders and rechargeÆs setup along with the other setup with extenders and PDS only? Along with any other setups you want me to run numbers on.
I would be very surprised if there is a 100dps difference between the two setups on my Domi there is a 39dps difference.
Not sure you read the other thread. Do you want your chart turning into a webpage and hosting? ThereÆs room on my website if you do.
ôAlso, how many HP does your shield have on your domi? Is it over 20k? If so I bet that shield recharger would be better than you realize...ö 28k hitpoints I will run the numbers with the shield rechargeÆs. How many do you want me to fit? I can run more then 1 set of if you want.
ôI'm assuming you're tanking level 4 missions with that setup?ö I spend most of the time doing Cosmos complexÆs with my Eos which is about 1500dps from the enemy. My Domi is just used for the odd lvl 3 mission. Where it doesnt really matter which setup I take only the odd missions deals more then 600dps so I take a mix of the two setups.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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