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Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
731
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Posted - 2014.11.21 09:39:46 -
[1] - Quote
Let me start this thread by saying: No I'm not mad, Yes this did come to my attention after being killed (although it is the 2nd time this has happened). Despite this, I fully expect some trolling or insulting comments.
For many active modules, I notice if I click them twice in rapid succession, I get a message that the module is already active, instead of deactivating the module. This is not so with the cloak. Also unlike the other modules, you cannot immediately reactivate the cloak. As a result, 1 misclick can be quite disasterous.
Therefore I suggest chainging it so that a double click on the cloak will not deactivate a cloak, but will instead relay a message that the cloak is already active.
I can't think of any situation where the ability to engage and then disengage the cloak within 1 second would be of any use. Therefore I see not disadvantage to this.
I don't consider it a gameplay feature, but rather a change to the UI. Given the lag that often occurs between a click and the UI showing its effect, I think it is sorely needed.
Thoughts? |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
795
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Posted - 2014.11.21 10:29:18 -
[2] - Quote
if I click 2x to armor repairer, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to shield booster, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to damage control, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to shield hardener, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to armor hardener, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to any other active module, same happens as to cloak.
so why again, should cloak be a special module???
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Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
731
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Posted - 2014.11.21 10:31:43 -
[3] - Quote
That is not the case I have seen.
As I said in the OP: "For many active modules, I notice if I click them twice in rapid succession, I get a message that the module is already active, instead of deactivating the module."
If I click them twice with a large delay, I don't get that. But if I click, and nothing happens (due to lag), and then click again, I get the module activating, and a message pops up saying the module is already active.
I just want the same thing to happen with cloaks. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2536
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Posted - 2014.11.21 10:33:24 -
[4] - Quote
Cloak is a special module because it is simply on or off, so the accidental double click immediately shuts the cloak off, where as the rest of the modules you listed have a cycle time.
Im not saying I agree or disagree with the OP, but this is why I always use my F1 key for the cloak, it greatly reduces the chance of a double taping the key.
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Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
731
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Posted - 2014.11.21 10:40:23 -
[5] - Quote
Another minor complaint is that the UI is much less clear when it has been activated. The slowly pulsing halo around it is not as clear as the solid green bar and other effects that go along with modules that have a cycle time.
The time I was killed before, I was trying to get more than 2,000 m from something (the edge of a POS force field, which I couldn't really tell how far away I was)... and i kept clicking it trying to get it to activate as soon as possible (the POS was bubbled, and there was someone visiting from time to time)
I finally got far enouhg away and cloaked, only to immediately decloak with the next click. Then the cloak reactivation delay happened, but no one was on grid yet, so I tried to just push through the bubble as I waited to recloak... I should have turned and went back inside the POS, but I didn't and someone showed up, and I died.
MWDs can be stopped mid cycle... How about having the cloak have a cycle time, and allowing you to resume the auto repeat. Ie if you click once too many times, the cycle bar turns red, click again, it goes back to green.
Would solve the problem, and again, this is mainly just a user interface issue. |
Major Trant
287 Marine Regiment
1261
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Posted - 2014.11.21 11:39:24 -
[6] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:if I click 2x to armor repairer, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to shield booster, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to damage control, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to shield hardener, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to armor hardener, same happens as to cloak. if I click 2x to any other active module, same happens as to cloak.
so why again, should cloak be a special module???
This is blantantly not true. Everyone of those module will cycle for 10-30 seconds first before switching down and then you can immediately restart them. With a cloak, it switches down immediately, then there is a reativation delay of up to 30 seconds.
I agree with the OP. The emote complicates the issue too, it pulse once per second, related to the server tick. Thus when you first click it, it could be full second before you see the emote, before even considering any lag. So when you are going from a gate cloak to the onboard cloak, it is not immediately obvious that you have made the crossover. You are left having to delay clicking the onboard cloak for a second to make absolutely sure you are clear of the gate cloak. Not something you want to do when you have jumped into an insta-lock gate camp. In that situation you could end up clicking too early or mashing the button a second time, thinking it hasn't engaged. I too have been killed making that mistake under those circumstances.
I can understand the need to drop the cloak immediately on command. However, as the OP says, there is no vital need, where you would want to drop the cloak within, say, 3 seconds of raising it.
I would suggest a simple halt on the abiltity to switch off the cloak within 3 seconds of starting it. Thus allowing the button to be mashed as you break the gate cloak. But no message to the user, the last thing you want to deal with is a message when you have jumped into a gate camp. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13959
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Posted - 2014.11.21 11:46:45 -
[7] - Quote
Dont double click.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Major Trant
287 Marine Regiment
1262
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Posted - 2014.11.21 11:51:18 -
[8] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dont double click. I don't think you get it:
1. You have jumped into an insta lock gate camp. 2. You break gate cloak and click the onboard cloak 3. In the first second, you see nothing happening other than the gate cloak dropping.
Have you clicked too early, or are you just unlucky with the server tick and a bit of lag? Remember you are decloaking into an insta lock gate camp. |
CaCi-A 001Me
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.11.21 11:59:01 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dont double click. seriously? that's your contribution?
i agree, a cloak deactivation delay is sorely needed for the reasons already mentioned above.
i don't play real life, the balancing sucks!
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1337
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Posted - 2014.11.21 12:05:15 -
[10] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:That is not the case I have seen.
As I said in the OP: "For many active modules, I notice if I click them twice in rapid succession, I get a message that the module is already active, instead of deactivating the module."
If I click them twice with a large delay, I don't get that. But if I click, and nothing happens (due to lag), and then click again, I get the module activating, and a message pops up saying the module is already active.
I just want the same thing to happen with cloaks. Never happened to me, must be a new bug or something.
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13959
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Posted - 2014.11.21 12:17:08 -
[11] - Quote
CaCi-A 001Me wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dont double click. seriously? that's your contribution? i agree, a cloak deactivation delay is sorely needed for the reasons already mentioned above.
Its a simple answer to a player made problem.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
733
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Posted - 2014.11.21 12:36:27 -
[12] - Quote
a problem stemming from the UI
DId you argue against the addition of the visible weapons timers and cooldown timers too? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
222
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Posted - 2014.11.21 12:52:45 -
[13] - Quote
Don't double click Pilot error is a great thing in this game more systems should not be put in place to remove it |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
2154
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:05:49 -
[14] - Quote
A 1 second delay for all modules would be fine actually.
Not because of pilot error (which is great) but because of lag (which is less great).
For example, it sometimes happens to me that i click on prop mod, because of lag it doesn't immediately show that it's activated, so I click on it again and end up deactivating it.
Yes, it will cycle anyway, but at the end of the cycle it will auto turn off and I have to remember to turn it back on again. No big deal, but slightly annoying if you're PVPing and concentrated on several other things.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Major Trant
287 Marine Regiment
1265
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:10:37 -
[15] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Don't double click Pilot error is a great thing in this game more systems should not be put in place to remove it It is not a double click pilot error, wrong terminology, it is two distinct clicks or key strokes. The issue is not being sure whether the first activation has worked or not due to both the server tick/emote delay and lag, the latter of which could also delay the gate cloak dropping. Then in a time critical situation reacting by clicking again - or using a mapped key, it doesn't matter which. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13959
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:28:25 -
[16] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:a problem stemming from the UI
DId you argue against the addition of the visible weapons timers and cooldown timers too?
Ui has nothing to do with it, the issue is between the chair and the keyboard.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
498
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:38:29 -
[17] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Verity Sovereign wrote:a problem stemming from the UI
DId you argue against the addition of the visible weapons timers and cooldown timers too? Ui has nothing to do with it, the issue is between the chair and the keyboard.
Only to a limited degree. Mashing to activate is common in lag situations, it's far from uncommon for things not to take straight away.
Admittedly that is in bigger scraps, not usually seen in camp territory - but I do agree it is a UI issue at the core. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9048
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:42:51 -
[18] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Let me start this thread by saying: No I'm not mad, Yes this did come to my attention after being killed (although it is the 2nd time this has happened). Despite this, I fully expect some trolling or insulting comments.
For many active modules, I notice if I click them twice in rapid succession, I get a message that the module is already active, instead of deactivating the module. This is not so with the cloak. Also unlike the other modules, you cannot immediately reactivate the cloak. As a result, 1 misclick can be quite disasterous.
Therefore I suggest chainging it so that a double click on the cloak will not deactivate a cloak, but will instead relay a message that the cloak is already active.
I can't think of any situation where the ability to engage and then disengage the cloak within 1 second would be of any use. Therefore I see not disadvantage to this.
I don't consider it a gameplay feature, but rather a change to the UI. Given the lag that often occurs between a click and the UI showing its effect, I think it is sorely needed.
Thoughts?
My thoughts are that you should not be asking people to correct your mistakes. ANY request of a devloper that is based on them fixing a mistake you made is a bad request by default.
I've lost ships to misclicking on a cloak in low sec (my ship decloaked before it could warp). That's the cost for getting overly excited (I call it "premature De-cloak-ulation"). The 'cure' is slowing down, being precise in what you do, and accepting that when you fail it was YOU that failed, it wasn't the game.
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Iris Bravemount
Eldar Army La Division Bleue
346
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Posted - 2014.11.21 13:42:54 -
[19] - Quote
I would welcome a deactivation delay of 1sec on any and all modules.
"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
64
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:10:18 -
[20] - Quote
As one who experiences lags due to a poor internet connection on a consistent basis I understand the OP all to well. Is it to much to ask that the emote around the cloak icon actually gives an indication that it has been activated in the same way that virtually every other module does?
It was asked why should the cloak be given something special that no other module has. I would turn that around and ask why should the cloak be special in that it does not have the same thing that the other modules do?
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Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
390
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Posted - 2014.11.22 04:04:49 -
[21] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:My thoughts are that you should not be asking people to correct your mistakes. ANY request of a devloper that is based on them fixing a mistake you made is a bad request by default. This is not the OP's fault: this is a case of the UI lying to the OP, saying the module is not active when it is.
Side note which is just an interesting mechanic I've run into re: cloaks and gates:
If you land on a gate while cloaked using the "Jump" option, if you don't land towards the gate in that 2.5 km arrival bubble, you won't jump through immediately. Instead, your ship decloaks and you spend a server tick or two approaching the gate before jumping. To counter this, you can decloak just before you're out of decell, and you'll jump through immediately. HOWEVER, if you do this, you will then have a cooldown on your cloak which you wouldn't have had otherwise.
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Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
733
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Posted - 2014.11.22 09:04:24 -
[22] - Quote
See this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5229934#post5229934
When a UI change would comletely fix the issue,I submit that the UI was the issue. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
274
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Posted - 2014.11.22 10:10:52 -
[23] - Quote
Only thing they need to fix about cloak (and other modules) is the visual for active state- the faint green glow around the module is simply too weak, and often gets completely hidden by nebulas / gas clouds.
About the double-click - if you click the cloak too early after a jump, you get a notification. If you don't get a notification, your click was successful and clicking again is your own mistake.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
7058
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Posted - 2014.11.22 10:52:08 -
[24] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Ui has nothing to do with it, the issue is between the chair and the keyboard.
exactly this, having lost a legion to the stated "problem" in the op i still think of it as my own dam fault because (wait for it) ... it was my own dam fault.
lesson learned, sp lost, never made that particular mistake again
we always need room for pilot error and this is a great one ,
no problem here whatsoever.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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CaCi-A 001Me
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.11.22 21:12:08 -
[25] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Its a simple answer to a player made problem. no, it's not. it's a wannabe witty remark, that is in fact just trollish and neither constructive nor does it show the reasons why you are against the OP's idea, which you obviously seem to be. i also fail to see how the client beeing unable to give the correct information about whether the cloak is already active or not, due to lag or server tick or whatever, is a player made problem.
i don't play real life, the balancing sucks!
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
218
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Posted - 2014.11.22 22:51:46 -
[26] - Quote
Major Trant wrote:I can understand the need to drop the cloak immediately on command. However, as the OP says, there is no vital need, where you would want to drop the cloak within, say, 3 seconds of raising it.
I would suggest a simple halt on the ability to switch off the cloak within 3 seconds of starting it. Thus allowing the button to be mashed as you break the gate cloak. But no message to the user, the last thing you want to deal with is a message when you have jumped into a gate camp.
Edit: I would further suggest that during those 3 seconds, you have the reload emote circling the cloak icon. Which would alleviate the problem of not being sure whether the cloak has started up or not.
This seems a valid workaround - particularly if it was a client setting - that could be toggled - then those who say 'just don't misclick' can leave it off and get caught in the odd gatecamp - and those who acknowledge the need will use it - and likely die a little less than they did before;
everyone happy?
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Paranoid Loyd
2755
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Posted - 2014.11.22 23:34:08 -
[27] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I've lost ships to misclicking on a cloak in low sec (my ship decloaked before it could warp). That's the cost for getting overly excited (I call it "premature De-cloak-ulation"). The 'cure' is slowing down, being precise in what you do, and accepting that when you fail it was YOU that failed, it wasn't the game. This, you lost your ship because you were caught in a situation that made you tense up and do things you normally wouldn't do in a calm situation. Learn to control your emotions and you will learn to click when and where appropriate. If you clicked the button you clicked it. Sometimes there is lag, but if you clicked the button there is no need to click it again. Also, I have not seen one mention of using hotkeys in this thread. Using an f-key to activate the cloak will remove this mistake, fairly certain this is what Baltec was getting at.
My loot scooper on occasion (although it is rare) will need to deactivate his cloak within a few seconds of cloaking, so I for one strongly disagree with adding a delay to it.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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