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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
277
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 12:33:24 -
[91] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: Goal is to create new way to pull this isk from the system in a some way - and not only assume that the best way to remove isk from game is to wait for someone to abandon his accounts.
But still the question remains- why? Why do you think the economy needs a new ISK sink? |
DaeHan Minhyok
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
29
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 12:42:38 -
[92] - Quote
how about charging people 10m isk to post bad ideas on the forums? |
Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
41
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 13:53:32 -
[93] - Quote
How about to boost the most lucrative NPCs? Give them more HP and DPS. As they will be more deadly they will generate less isk. Boost LP rewards, lower ISK reward, etc. |
Anthar Thebess
803
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 13:53:34 -
[94] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: Goal is to create new way to pull this isk from the system in a some way - and not only assume that the best way to remove isk from game is to wait for someone to abandon his accounts.
But still the question remains- why? Why do you think the economy needs a new ISK sink?
When i started to play eve fitted Battleship was around 70mil , full fit and rigs included. Now the same battleship cost around 250mil.
Yes there was changes to industry , extra materials etc , but when you take this into account cost change should be around 10-15%.
Yes im aware that drone regions where nerfed and most of minerals came from them, reprocessing changed ... still. Prices are constantly increasing , and the only way for something to get really cheaper is making some stuff worthless by some CCP re balance.
Every month you cannot buy the same stuff for 1b you managed in previous month. To what this will lead : Check this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation
Btw. I have some stamps from this period. 0.10 base value and new value in black stamp on top of it. Guess the new value ....... 4.000.000
Something like here : http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=200807307920.stamp_nook_hyperinflation
Yes this is a game, game that wants to be REAL .
PHOEBE Retrospective
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Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
41
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:03:56 -
[95] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: Goal is to create new way to pull this isk from the system in a some way - and not only assume that the best way to remove isk from game is to wait for someone to abandon his accounts.
But still the question remains- why? Why do you think the economy needs a new ISK sink? Everything got very expansive. PLEX will cost 1 bil soon. Poeple are leaving because they are tired to grind to buy something. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
509
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:04:14 -
[96] - Quote
Still curious as to why it is a problem.
A PWNAGE dropped today nets newbro ~200k
Let's say there is hyperinflation and they sell for 2 BILLION isk. Newbro loots.....wait for it....an item he can flip for 2B isk.
So who cares? It remains relative, in the main.
Except for, you know....the items that don't drop....like...PLEX.....which takes me back to my first post. |
Anthar Thebess
803
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:15:33 -
[97] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Still curious as to why it is a problem. A PWNAGE dropped today nets newbro ~200k Let's say there is hyperinflation and they sell for 2 BILLION isk. Newbro loots.....wait for it....an item he can flip for 2B isk. So who cares? It remains relative, in the main. Except for, you know....the items that don't drop....like...PLEX.....which takes me back to my first post.
Sorry but linking ISK sinks to PLEX prices is wrong. Plex is not normal item. Its VALUE ( not price ) will never be affected by ISK sinks.
Current plex price is around 85% real VALUE and around 15% speculation.
As for hyperinflation ... think what you can buy for those 2bil then.... nothing.
(it will not get to this point... but ... if you go this way ) At the same time think about new players - they come and they have to make 15bil to buy caracal.
PHOEBE Retrospective
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
509
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:20:02 -
[98] - Quote
So I repeat.....who cares?
What is the problem and what does it matter? People have to loot more? Good, creates more opportunities for player interaction, better lifestyle for ninjas. More "loss" immediately warping out the minute someone hits local. |
Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
41
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:23:03 -
[99] - Quote
afkalt wrote:So I repeat.....who cares?
What is the problem and what does it matter? People have to loot more? Good, creates more opportunities for player interaction, better lifestyle for ninjas. More "loss" immediately warping out the minute someone hits local. Well as I've said somebody will just leave and game will get just more boring. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
509
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:26:28 -
[100] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:afkalt wrote:So I repeat.....who cares?
What is the problem and what does it matter? People have to loot more? Good, creates more opportunities for player interaction, better lifestyle for ninjas. More "loss" immediately warping out the minute someone hits local. Well as I've said somebody will just leave and game will get just more boring.
Why leave? Because you need to pay to play the game?
Good. F2P is a ******* scourge on the face of real gaming and needs to be exterminated with extreme prejudice.
Or is it because stopping to loot is "hard"? |
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Anthar Thebess
803
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Posted - 2014.11.24 14:32:28 -
[101] - Quote
Who cares that excessive isk makes every thing more expensive? Sometimes more expensive than it should be?
Very simple example. 1. You want to buy Battleship You earn 50mil / h ... we have excessive isk floating around the system, so it was easy to make some stuff to cost more. This battleship costs 150mil.
In order to do it you have to do PVE for 3hours.
But. Because there is a lot of isk in the system, the battleship not cost any more 150mil, but 300mi. You still earn 50mil/h , so you have to PVE not for 3hours but for 6 hours. So something that was fun at some point slowly is changing to work.
Look at the new player. For him, when he is earning 10mil/h ... this shiny BS is goal for near future ... this 150mil is expensive , not even talking about 300mil per hull.
PHOEBE Retrospective
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Lidia Caderu
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
41
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:36:31 -
[102] - Quote
Quote: F2P is a ******* scourge on the face of real gaming Lol you are a real r****d :)))) |
Anthar Thebess
803
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:37:46 -
[103] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:afkalt wrote:So I repeat.....who cares?
What is the problem and what does it matter? People have to loot more? Good, creates more opportunities for player interaction, better lifestyle for ninjas. More "loss" immediately warping out the minute someone hits local. Well as I've said somebody will just leave and game will get just more boring. Why leave? Because you need to pay to play the game? Good. F2P is a ******* scourge on the face of real gaming and needs to be exterminated with extreme prejudice. Or is it because stopping to loot is "hard"?
You are getting this totally wrong way. Remember that this is game, not work. Many , if not most , of eve players don't have 19 years any more. They have work , families.
Sorry but the for me, and for many people the moment i will have to buy PLEX from CCP just to have isk to afford ships will be the last day you will see me on server.
This thread is not about this, F2P or Plex prices.
This thread is how to remove isk flowing into the system. Isk that is created from nowhere and where most of it should land at the end.
PHOEBE Retrospective
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
509
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:40:20 -
[104] - Quote
Maybe newbros shouldn't be looking at battleships then? If you can only make 10m/hour, you'll lose 150m-300m per hour the minute you sit in that shiny BS and have it blow the hell out from under you.
If poor newbro is a miner (the only thing I can think of making such poor isk) making 10m/hour and things triple in cost, why would be not then make 30m/hour thus keeping the relative cost the same?
Perhaps, if inflation pushes everything 3x more expensive but your income remains constant perhaps it is time to revisit your efficiency?
edit: TL;RD: Stop thinking "isk/hour" and start thinking "assets/hour" |
Anthar Thebess
803
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 14:54:20 -
[105] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Maybe newbros shouldn't be looking at battleships then? When you come to eve you want to fly bigger and bigger ships. I still remember my first cruiser, battlecruiser ... Over the years and experience you learn that smaller signature is important , and when you skill up a bit , you can have similar DPS on proper ships.
So please post your ideas about possible ISK sinks , rather than talkin how PLEX is expensive , and how you don't care that every thing is getting more and more expensive ( while the VALUE stay the same).
afkalt wrote:edit: TL;RD: Stop thinking "isk/hour" and start thinking "assets/hour" That is the point of why we need isk sinks.
Because inflation every month you can buy less assets/hour than in the previous month.
PHOEBE Retrospective
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
509
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 15:11:43 -
[106] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:afkalt wrote:edit: TL;RD: Stop thinking "isk/hour" and start thinking "assets/hour" That is the point of why we need isk sinks. Because inflation every month you can buy less assets/hour than in the previous month.
I fail to see how I can make this any clearer, you're just missing my point.
If I loot 75m per hour in drops today and a battleship costs 150m then two hours of loot generation gets me it
Let's say hyperinflation hits tomorrow then tomorrow and the battleship costs 1,500m but remember the same thing affects drops so I'm now looting 750m per hour in drops.....it takes me two hours to afford the battleship. Same as before.
What will happen is bounty farming will slowly give ground to bounty and loot farming.
Asset generation stays consistent, affordability stays broadly consistent. Supply and demand will level it off, there will hit a point where people wont go beyond for an item as inflation outpaces isk facuets and liquid isk stockpiles transfer to assets, then it'll settle down to a norm.
Point being, it's not really going to hurt newbies, or anyone else for that matter. Maybe the NPCs seeding titan skill books ;) |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
290
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 17:01:20 -
[107] - Quote
PVP can be enough of an isk sink as it is. Calling ship insurance an isk faucet is laughable; it's the only reason many people will take out expensive or big ships. I dunno about you, but I refuse to grind red crosses to replace 300 mil losses.
Solution is simple, less hi security space, more low security space and less zero risk income. Yeah, Nullsec is safer than Hisec but that's a much larger problem CCP has created.
There isn't enough low sec outside of FW space. |
Sera Kor-Azor
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 19:37:22 -
[108] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Sera Kor-Azor wrote: Really though, arguing about Insurance at all is like focusing on the candle flame while ignoring the forest fire behind you.
As I have said. The cause of inflation is station trading. Station traders sit in a station perfectly safe while buying low and re-listing for a higher price. These aren't peanuts, but transactions of Billions of ISK.
Are you trolling? Please say you are. Time for preschool level examples. I have an apple. Bob pays me 100$ for this apple (It's an awesome apple) The omnipotent Gov rushes in and taxes 10$ from that hundred, then tosses it in a fire, destroying it. How much money is in the system at the end of the action? 90$ WOW! LOOK! Trading is a deflationary action There is no money coming out of thin air when trading is done. there is only money vanishing and trading hands. Inflation occurs when the money supply increases proportionate to the number of players. Trading cannot create inflation. Trading sets the demand/supply levels and prices of any particular good, but that would still happen in an economy with an absolute closed system.
Am I trolling?
No, it is not my intention to troll. I was merely making suggestions. Perhaps they are all bad suggestions. Perhaps they are all foolish suggestions. However, the OP was asking for suggestions, so that is what I provided. Suggestions.
You on the other hand, provide NO suggestions that I have seen. You merely point out how other people's suggestions are bad ideas. However, since you have metaphorically referred to the use of violence ("I can't be the only one who wants to smack people in the head'), as well as employing insults and a condescending tone, I have to wonder if it is you who are the troll.
I did end up reconsidering my position on Insurance, and adopting your side. Despite this, the steady stream of insults and vitriol continues, regardless of the fact that there is no need for you to resort to them at all to get your point across. Yet when it comes to addressing the original topic, which is making suggestions on how to improve things, suggestions are noticeably absent from you.
So yes, that is a good question.
Who is the troll? Why are you here? What is the point you are trying to make?
Your hyperbolic example doesn't mention that apples only cost a dollar to begin with, and Bob is making an $89 profit by buying it cheap and relisting it for a hundred dollars.
Is that considered inflation? This might help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
It no longer matters to me at this point. I am beginning to see that inflation is indeed an imaginary problem and these ideas are ways to 'fix' the non existent problem by changing the game in ways that nerf the game play of other players but benefit the poster personally.
Since a few people here have trouble getting into their 'big boy pants', and refraining from getting emotional or using insults, I am not going to bother with this discussion anymore. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
784
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 20:43:19 -
[109] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:afkalt wrote:Maybe newbros shouldn't be looking at battleships then? When you come to eve you want to fly bigger and bigger ships. I still remember my first cruiser, battlecruiser ....
Actually I've only ever wanted to fly a ship that's 'fit for purpose' in my current activities and have yet to fly a BS even though I can.
Back on post I don't see any rampant inflation so far if you set aside plex. Last major price jump I noticed was on AFs and pirate frigs when burnermissions were introduced and that was simply supply and demand in action. No issues for me here at all so -1.
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
76
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 21:01:51 -
[110] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Sera Kor-Azor wrote: Really though, arguing about Insurance at all is like focusing on the candle flame while ignoring the forest fire behind you.
As I have said. The cause of inflation is station trading. Station traders sit in a station perfectly safe while buying low and re-listing for a higher price. These aren't peanuts, but transactions of Billions of ISK.
Are you trolling? Please say you are. Time for preschool level examples. I have an apple. Bob pays me 100$ for this apple (It's an awesome apple) The omnipotent Gov rushes in and taxes 10$ from that hundred, then tosses it in a fire, destroying it. How much money is in the system at the end of the action? 90$ WOW! LOOK! Trading is a deflationary action There is no money coming out of thin air when trading is done. there is only money vanishing and trading hands. Inflation occurs when the money supply increases proportionate to the number of players. Trading cannot create inflation. Trading sets the demand/supply levels and prices of any particular good, but that would still happen in an economy with an absolute closed system. You might want to learn about what you're talking about before sounding off like this . If you think the taxes done through trading outweigh the actions taken by traders to increase their profits, you just don't know trading in EVE.
Those of us who make our ISK trading know that what Sera Kor-Azor has stated is absolutely true. ISK faucets do play a role in market pricing but the biggest factor is the actions of the market players. I suspect this to be the cause for inflation in most cases. Ultimately though no one knows without CCP providing data about it.
I'm in enough trader chat rooms to know though just how dastardly some deeds have been. A single player with enough ISK can enter more or less any market of his choosing and decide the prices himself, be it creating an upwards or downwards trend. PLEX is the only exception to this rule. Minerals like Tritanium arguably also an exception.
This does not mean trading in itself creates inflation or deflation. There are times when traders want to purposely create deflation in a market. The point here is the markets are directly controlled by the traders. The players providing materials for the market or the purchases of the market goods all play a role too but they are usually only a secondary factor.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
658
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 21:22:03 -
[111] - Quote
Sera Kor-Azor wrote:No, it is not my intention to troll. I was merely making suggestions. Perhaps they are all bad suggestions. Perhaps they are all foolish suggestions. However, the OP was asking for suggestions, so that is what I provided. Suggestions. You on the other hand, provide NO suggestions that I have seen. You merely point out how other people's suggestions are bad ideas. However, since you have metaphorically referred to the use of violence ("I can't be the only one who wants to smack people in the head'), as well as employing insults and a condescending tone, I have to wonder if it is you who are the troll. Your hyperbolic example doesn't mention that apples only cost a dollar to begin with, and Bob is making an $89 profit by buying it cheap and relisting it for a hundred dollars. Is that considered inflation? This might help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
Why do you assume an apple is worth only a dollar? In the example provided, at the time provided, the amazingly awesome apple in question was worth 100$. If we imagine that the apple and that 100$ are the sole components of the economy, at the end of the transaction, there is one apple, and 90$ existing.
This means that instead of 1$ being 1/100 of an amazingly awesome apple, it is now worth 1/90th of an amazingly awesome apple.
This means that the functional buying power of a dollar has increased due to a decrease in the overall money supply. For simplicity sake, we refer to this as deflation. Each and every money is removed from the EVE economy due to a market transaction fee, clone fee, purchase from an NPC, what we call isk sinks, it is a deflationary source. |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
659
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 21:28:27 -
[112] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:You might want to learn about what you're talking about before sounding off like this . If you think the taxes done through trading outweigh the actions taken by traders to increase their profits, you just don't know trading in EVE. Those of us who make our ISK trading know that what Sera Kor-Azor has stated is absolutely true. ISK faucets do play a role in market pricing but the biggest factor is the actions of the market players. I suspect this to be the cause for inflation in most cases. Ultimately though no one knows without CCP providing data about it. I'm in enough trader chat rooms to know though just how dastardly some deeds have been. A single player with enough ISK can enter more or less any market of his choosing and decide the prices himself, be it creating an upwards or downwards trend. PLEX is the only exception to this rule. Minerals like Tritanium arguably also an exception. This does not mean trading in itself creates inflation or deflation. There are times when traders want to purposely create deflation in a market. The point here is the markets are directly controlled by the traders. The players providing materials for the market or the purchases of the market goods all play a role too but they are usually only a secondary factor.
You are mixing up price fixing with economic inflation.
A rapid spike in a certain items price due to market fixing is not inflation because A: It is temporary. B: Inflation is usually pegged to the overall buying power of a certain amount of money. Just because some trader pumps up the price of _____ by 30% over where it would sit without manipulation is price fixing, not inflation.
After all, price fixing occurs even (arguably far more often) in systems with a resticted, limited money supply than those with open sinks and faucets like eve.
TLDR: Temporary price fixing is not inflation, in the economic meaning of the word. It might be in the "inflating a balloon", but inflation is judged on a larger index than any single item. |
Sera Kor-Azor
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 22:10:33 -
[113] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Sera Kor-Azor wrote:No, it is not my intention to troll. I was merely making suggestions. Perhaps they are all bad suggestions. Perhaps they are all foolish suggestions. However, the OP was asking for suggestions, so that is what I provided. Suggestions. You on the other hand, provide NO suggestions that I have seen. You merely point out how other people's suggestions are bad ideas. However, since you have metaphorically referred to the use of violence ("I can't be the only one who wants to smack people in the head'), as well as employing insults and a condescending tone, I have to wonder if it is you who are the troll. Your hyperbolic example doesn't mention that apples only cost a dollar to begin with, and Bob is making an $89 profit by buying it cheap and relisting it for a hundred dollars. Is that considered inflation? This might help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation Why do you assume an apple is worth only a dollar? In the example provided, at the time provided, the amazingly awesome apple in question was worth 100$. If we imagine that the apple and that 100$ are the sole components of the economy, at the end of the transaction, there is one apple, and 90$ existing. This means that instead of 1$ being 1/100 of an amazingly awesome apple, it is now worth 1/90th of an amazingly awesome apple. This means that the functional buying power of a dollar has increased due to a decrease in the overall money supply. For simplicity sake, we refer to this as deflation. Each and every money is removed from the EVE economy due to a market transaction fee, clone fee, purchase from an NPC, what we call isk sinks, it is a deflationary source.
First you started with a straw-man, and mixed in a little personal attack, and now you seem to be moving the goal posts.
You took my suggestion for increasing station trading taxes/ linking station taxes with security status, and then paradoxically used it as an example as why my suggestion somehow wouldn't work.
In your own example, it's the TAXES that remove the ISK from the equation, not the actual process of trading itself.
In order for your example to work, we would have to suspend disbelief about what we know about apples in the real world. You might find an apple with the face of Jesus on it, and be able to sell it for $100, but the initial cost of that apple was $1 or under at the grocery store. If you doubt this, go buy an apple yourself and confirm if this is true. If that apple is sold on E-bay for $100, that is an example of relisting. When ALL the apples in the world are bought for $1 and relisted for $100, that's inflation.
Still though, we hear no actual solutions from you regarding the problem of inflation, if it actually is a problem. Instead, you seem to have your laser like focus set on shooting down other people's ideas and suggestions.
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Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
77
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 22:48:03 -
[114] - Quote
Phaade wrote:PVP can be enough of an isk sink as it is. Calling ship insurance an isk faucet is laughable; it's the only reason many people will take out expensive or big ships. I dunno about you, but I refuse to grind red crosses to replace 300 mil losses.
Solution is simple, less hi security space, more low security space and less zero risk income. Yeah, Nullsec is safer than Hisec but that's a much larger problem CCP has created.
There isn't enough low sec outside of FW space.
Nope. You're confusing ISK in an individual's wallet with the amount of ISK in the game.
PVP isn't an ISK sink. No money leaves the system when a ship is blown up. The individual might be out some cash if the pilot purchaced the ships, but that money goes to who the pilot bought the ships from. That's ISK movement, not a sink.
If the pilot builds her own ships, then there's a slight sink in manufacturing fees. But then, that's not PVP, that's industry.
If all the ships in the game were uninsured and exploded tomorrow, this would only cause an ISK loss in one way: Players rage-quitting EvE and taking their ISK out of circulation.
Insurance is a type of faucet because if everyone had insurance on all those ships, then that ISK from the payments would come from nowhere. However, insuance is also a sink, because if magically every ship in the game had insurance and they all survived for the length of an insurance contract, then that's money leaving the game with no return. Insurance is tricky, and honestly needs to be reviewed to make sure that the pay-ins and pay-outs cancel each other out as much as possible.
Safety has nothing to do with the amount of ISK circulating in the game. It might decide how much it moves between players, but that has nothing to with how much ISK is generated or is destroyed as a whole.
As for why this thread was looking for sink ideas. We are about to lose a sink in the form of med-clone costs. While the loss of this sink obviously hasn't affected the game's economy yet, and we don't know for sure how it will affect the economy in the future, it would be better to have something to replace the sink should we need it.
I'll say again, that it's better to have a solution to a problem ready before the problem becomes a problem. Since this is all speculation, it doesn't cost the devs anything but some idle chat over beers and some note taking. Should a problem with inflation become apparent, then the devs can brush off the sink ideas and implement it. Better to be vigilant.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
279
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 23:02:28 -
[115] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: Goal is to create new way to pull this isk from the system in a some way - and not only assume that the best way to remove isk from game is to wait for someone to abandon his accounts.
But still the question remains- why? Why do you think the economy needs a new ISK sink? When i started to play eve fitted Battleship was around 70mil , full fit and rigs included. Now the same battleship cost around 250mil. Yes there was changes to industry , extra materials etc , but when you take this into account cost change should be around 10-15%. Yes im aware that drone regions where nerfed and most of minerals came from them, reprocessing changed ... still. Prices are constantly increasing , and the only way for something to get really cheaper is making some stuff worthless by some CCP re balance. Every month you cannot buy the same stuff for 1b you managed in previous month. To what this will lead : Check this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation Btw. I have some stamps from this period. 0.10 base value and new value in black stamp on top of it. Guess the new value ....... 4.000.000 Something like here : http://zapatopi.net/blog/?post=200807307920.stamp_nook_hyperinflation Yes this is a game, game that wants to be REAL .
Look at prices for common items for the past year and you'll see that they haven't gone up. Some have come down. If your inflation theory was true, you'd see an upward curve for every item.
Like you said, price increases for battleships are a result of game changes, not inflation. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
513
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 23:08:14 -
[116] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:PVP isn't an ISK sink. No money leaves the system when a ship is blown up.
Destroyed modules need repurchased. Module repairs need effected. Ammunition is expended. Drones are lost. |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
77
|
Posted - 2014.11.25 00:07:10 -
[117] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:PVP isn't an ISK sink. No money leaves the system when a ship is blown up. Destroyed modules need repurchased. Module repairs need effected. Ammunition is expended. Drones are lost.
Modules, ammunition, and drones are all either found via loot. -- no ISK generated or lost to the system, or are manufactered -- slight sink for manufacturing fees. There are also fees for market transactions. Once again, this is not PVP. This is Industry and trade. The PVP pilot, if she just buys all the stuff, only pays a sink in trade fees. If she's using the stuff she found via looting the enemy, then she's contributed no ISK loss or gain to circulation. Her personal finances may go up and down, but the ISK in the system remained constant.
PVP can lead to more industry and trade, and these lead to ISK sinks in manufacturing and trade fees. So while PVP doesn't actually generate or produce ISK into circulation, it can be a catalyst for other activities to do so.
I can't really think of any fair way of taxing the PVPer specifically, let alone even want to try. Actually... scratch that. I guess war decs would count as a PVP-centric sink.
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
108
|
Posted - 2014.11.25 00:13:01 -
[118] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: Goal is to create new way to pull this isk from the system in a some way - and not only assume that the best way to remove isk from game is to wait for someone to abandon his accounts.
But still the question remains- why? Why do you think the economy needs a new ISK sink? When i started to play eve fitted Battleship was around 70mil , full fit and rigs included. Now the same battleship cost around 250mil. Yes there was changes to industry , extra materials etc , but when you take this into account cost change should be around 10-15%.
the amount of minerals went up by more than 10% it was equalized to the teir 3's |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
785
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Posted - 2014.11.25 00:15:37 -
[119] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:afkalt wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:PVP isn't an ISK sink. No money leaves the system when a ship is blown up. Destroyed modules need repurchased. Module repairs need effected. Ammunition is expended. Drones are lost. Modules, ammunition, and drones are all either found via loot. -- no ISK generated or lost to the system, or are manufactered -- slight sink for manufacturing fees. There are also fees for market transactions. Once again, this is not PVP. This is Industry and trade. The PVP pilot, if she just buys all the stuff, only pays a sink in trade fees. If she's using the stuff she found via looting the enemy, then she's contributed no ISK loss or gain to circulation. Her personal finances may go up and down, but the ISK in the system remained constant. PVP can lead to more industry and trade, and these lead to ISK sinks in manufacturing and trade fees. So while PVP doesn't actually generate or produce ISK into circulation, it can be a catalyst for other activities to do so. I can't really think of any fair way of taxing the PVPer specifically, let alone even want to try. Actually... scratch that. I guess war decs would count as a PVP-centric sink. --Gadget
Just a quick note that industry and trade are equally PvP as you are directly competing with other players, you may not be shooting them but can cost them isk just as effectively... |
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
77
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Posted - 2014.11.25 00:25:25 -
[120] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:[ Just a quick note that industry and trade are equally PvP as you are directly competing with other players, you may not be shooting them but can cost them isk just as effectively...
That's a given. I was refering to PVP in it's more focused meaning. Blowing each other up. :)
--Gadget
Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck
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