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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
796
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Posted - 2014.11.22 01:55:01 -
[1] - Quote
I believe idiot-proof almost invulnerable ships dont fit into concept of cold and harsh universe of new eden.
Now you introduced a low-SP, low-cost frigates which
1) cost almost nothing, can be flown by a month old char 1) warp instantly or almost instantly, so you cant lock it and shoot them, regardless of your scan resolution 2) can't be bubbled -> means a safe travel ship for actually should-be-dangerous space like 0.0 or WH
Only way are smartbombs but they only work or are effective on battleships, which in turn became very vulnerable after your recent speed and agility nerf, cost roughly 250-300mil ISK with fit (interceptors cost 20) and is easy prey for all neutrals hanging around - trying to pull off this show will very likely end quickly on KB, reasons why basically noone is doing it.
Please either nerf interceptors agility, raise server tick rate to 2Hz or nerf bubble immunity in some way (maybe keep it only for anchorable bubbles), active players should be able to catch an uncareful interceptor pilot, piloting shouldnt consist of a succession of mindless jump,warp,jump,warp,jump,warp clicks like it is right now.
If you look at 0.0 space, NPC at least with lots of traffic, you will find 80-90% of all ships are interceptors, something you should be aware of, just because they became such a safe, idiot-proof ship to buzz around.
You nerfed interdictors bad enough already, time to give them some more meaning again, at least they should not be outmaneuvered and laughed at by low-entry hulls like that, fix your game CCP. |
Paranoid Loyd
2710
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Posted - 2014.11.22 02:02:20 -
[2] - Quote
One might argue that being able to completely lock down a system/gate/station is broken.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
796
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Posted - 2014.11.22 02:09:59 -
[3] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:One might argue that being able to completely lock down a system/gate/station is broken.
its not, you still can get through pretty easily in a covert ops or interceptor if you arent stupid und act properly. There were nullified T3 too, was already bad enough. A gate is very very far from locked down by a single interdictor or a bubble. |
Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
85
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Posted - 2014.11.22 02:17:30 -
[4] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:One might argue that being able to completely lock down a system/gate/station is broken.
its not, you still can get through pretty easily in a covert ops .
Negative, covops die to bubble camps that have a competent de-cloaker all the time. Nullified ceptors are the counter to gate camps. No ceptors means bubbles are an I-Win button, this is a "buff gate camps" thread in disguise.
-1, sorry. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
796
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Posted - 2014.11.22 02:22:58 -
[5] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote: Negative, covops die to bubble camps that have a competent de-cloaker all the time. Nullified ceptors are the counter to gate camps. No ceptors means bubbles are an I-Win button, this is a "buff gate camps" thread in disguise.
-1, sorry.
positive. its very very hard to decloak a mwding covert, if the pilot is not a noob, he will always get away regardless how competent the decloaker is. an interceptor will always be able to burn away from an interdictor before. Its where skill comes into play, now its just a dumb jump-warp-jump-warp, totally mindless and way too secure way of travel. A bubble camp with many people should not be countered by a single 20m entry level ship and a single warp click, thats not right. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
80
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Posted - 2014.11.22 02:26:06 -
[6] - Quote
First we need to work on alts, ship reimbursements, instaundock bookmarks and so on.
Nothing says ignore the harsh reality of the eve universe like hopping into an alt to avoid aggressive pilots or wardecs, or scout for your freighter. Nothing says carebear like using alts rather than needing and paying other people for exploration/scout services, or fighting your attackers for you.
Alts necessarily ruined merc corps profit margins. Why hire someone when you can just hop on an alt?
There's a lot "wrong" with EvE, in my opinion, that makes the game very forgiving and lenient. It's only harsh and unforgiving to people with less characters, less accounts, and less time in game to have made the ISK.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
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Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
85
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Posted - 2014.11.22 02:50:14 -
[7] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Leonard Nimoy II wrote: Negative, covops die to bubble camps that have a competent de-cloaker all the time. Nullified ceptors are the counter to gate camps. No ceptors means bubbles are an I-Win button, this is a "buff gate camps" thread in disguise.
-1, sorry.
positive. its very very hard to decloak a mwding covert, if the pilot is not a noob, he will always get away regardless how competent the decloaker is. an interceptor will always be able to burn away from an interdictor before. Its where skill comes into play, now its just a dumb jump-warp-jump-warp, totally mindless and way too secure way of travel. A bubble camp with many people should not be countered by a single 20m entry level ship and a single warp click, thats not right.
Negative. I have killed many cloakies this way. Also combat fit interceptors can be pointed with a sebo'd insta-locker. Align time under 2s is required for this to be impossible, which means the ceptor has to be fit with basically zero tank and isn't really combat capable. My -1 remains sturdy, sry. |
Liam Inkuras
Mafia Redux
1333
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:05:22 -
[8] - Quote
You will also find that 80%-90% of statistics are made up on the spot
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:28:29 -
[9] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote: Negative. I have killed many cloakies this way.
I'm not sure what you are about right now. If you are alone, you wont catch a cloaker who knows what he's doing with an interdictor. So wont you catch an interceptor jumping gate alone.
If you like we can test it, I come with a covert and you try to catch me with your dictor. Again, I'm not talking about a gatecamp of many people including bubbler and fast ships for decloaks, a gang setup this way SHOULD be able to catch an interceptor, unlike now.
Leonard Nimoy II wrote: Also combat fit interceptors can be pointed with a sebo'd insta-locker. Align time under 2s is required for this to be impossible, which means the ceptor has to be fit with basically zero tank and isn't really combat capable. My -1 remains sturdy, sry.
like I said, a gang should be able to do this. Noone should be able to counter a whole setup gatecamp by flying a cheap frigate hull.
Right now you can traverse whole eve 0.0 from one end to the other just by pressing 2 buttons, in a 20m hull without a real chance to anyone to stop you, which is completely wrong IMO. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
389
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Posted - 2014.11.22 03:37:34 -
[10] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:Negative. I have killed many cloakies this way. Also combat fit interceptors can be pointed with a sebo'd insta-locker. Align time under 2s is required for this to be impossible... Not impossible, but server-and-luck dependent.
My poor, poor 1.7s-align inty. I shall miss you. |
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
773
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Posted - 2014.11.22 04:21:58 -
[11] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:whaaa.... the mean inty got past my bubble cluster and pointed my pve ship Grow up and kill the interceptor. Travel fit inties are laughably ineffective in combat and combat fit inties aren't that hard to catch. |
Ssoraszh Tzarszh
Eschelon Directive Universal Consortium
69
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Posted - 2014.11.22 04:37:08 -
[12] - Quote
Is this in response to what PL did last night against CFC?
Because i was laughing really hard when that interceptor blob just hopped around the grid oneshotting random ships that wandered just an inch to far from the main fleet shooting the structures.
They have a paper tank, and if you can't deal with nullsec being a dangerous place for your blob the only answer can be that its too safe for whatever killed your shiny ship obviously |
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
55
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Posted - 2014.11.22 04:51:05 -
[13] - Quote
"means a safe travel ship for actually should-be-dangerous space like 0.0 or WH" Yeah last time I tried to take a speedy center from High to Null, I died to a smartbombing battleship in Low... What should stop you in null? |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
715
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Posted - 2014.11.22 04:51:35 -
[14] - Quote
So basically you want to sit at a jump gate all day long, with your AFK cloaker on the other side, the ghoul lord spawns and drops a FBSS for you people blunder into your gate gamp, and they have zero chance of getting away, basicly you want to win everytime. Sounds like how a carebear wants better protection, but they are always shot down and even from the likes of the OP.....hey on the up side now the donut of null sec will be broken with scouts that can out run and out fly you, bring people willing to smash your face in, and break up that monotony of a gate camp so you cannot control it unless you can just out "spawn them" with more ships and rearm quicker. The alternative is another whine about nerfing level 4 in high sec followed by MWD + Cloak = exploit trick....no, leave it as is cause now you know that once someone crashes through your gate camp that you are not invincible and might have company coming. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
625
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Posted - 2014.11.22 05:01:52 -
[15] - Quote
I, along with many others, predicted that interceptors would be 0.0 shuttles. It's only natural. They can, however, be caught by someone in the right part of the world (UK) with the right fleet composition. I know because the NPC Fountain dwellers often catch "uncatchable" interceptors using remote sensor boosted ships.
I also think that people being able to get around space is more important than people being able to exclude people from space. I feel there is a decent balance in this regard in the current meta.
PS - the PL Claws were a fun addition to the fights I was in a few hours ago. While the fit may not be very manly, they do demonstrate the sandbox very well.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Sa Matra
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
33
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Posted - 2014.11.22 06:25:04 -
[16] - Quote
CCP you should let interceptors jump to cynos, jump fatigue will make it balanced |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
990
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Posted - 2014.11.22 08:39:05 -
[17] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:One might argue that being able to completely lock down a system/gate/station is broken.
its not, you still can get through pretty easily in a covert ops or interceptor if you arent stupid und act properly. There were nullified T3 too, was already bad enough. A gate is very very far from locked down by a single interdictor or a bubble.
By a single yes, but not by bubble fields stretching hundreds of kilometers.
-1 to ceptor changes until anchorable bubbles are removed or changed. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
563
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Posted - 2014.11.22 10:09:54 -
[18] - Quote
1. Get into an interceptor yourself 2. Get a friend in a ship with at least 3 mids 3. Fit remote sebos to friend's ship 4. Apply resebos to interceptor to gain over 4500 scan res to make the ceptor lock time below 0.5 seconds 5. When a ceptor appears, you have 50/50 chance to catch it on the same tick as it decloaked, apply point (or 3) at the same time 6. ??? 7. Profit |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 13:26:07 -
[19] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:whaaa.... the mean inty got past my bubble cluster and pointed my pve ship Grow up and kill the interceptor. Travel fit inties are laughably ineffective in combat and combat fit inties aren't that hard to catch. the thread is not about combat interceptors but about interceptors as safe travel vessel.
Ssoraszh Tzarszh wrote:Is this in response to what PL did last night against CFC? Because i was laughing really hard when that interceptor blob just hopped around the grid oneshotting random ships that wandered just an inch to far from the main fleet shooting the structures. They have a paper tank, and if you can't deal with nullsec being a dangerous place for your blob the only answer can be that its too safe for whatever killed your shiny ship obviously no its not and yes it was my alliance mates who were hopping around CFC last night. I attend to this kind of gangs too but its not what the thread is about.
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 13:27:04 -
[20] - Quote
Discomanco wrote:"means a safe travel ship for actually should-be-dangerous space like 0.0 or WH" Yeah last time I tried to take a speedy center from High to Null, I died to a smartbombing battleship in Low... What should stop you in null? like I mentioned in my OP, smartbombs are an option but they are way too much effort and risk for what interceptors are. Even if you are even this unlucky, well, grab next disposable shuttleinterceptor and bounce planet in spot where you know a smartbomber was.
Aqriue wrote:So basically you want to sit at a jump gate all day long, with your AFK cloaker on the other side, the ghoul lord spawns and drops a FBSS for you people blunder into your gate gamp, and they have zero chance of getting away, basicly you want to win everytime. survivability of interceptors was already better than required pre-buff. Your rant misses the topic.
FT Diomedes wrote:I, along with many others, predicted that interceptors would be 0.0 shuttles. It's only natural. They can, however, be caught by someone in the right part of the world (UK) with the right fleet composition. I know because the NPC Fountain dwellers often catch "uncatchable" interceptors using remote sensor boosted ships. good for someone who is living in UK. For me, those things are not even lockable as they drop gate cloak and I'm not far away from UK.
FT Diomedes wrote:I also think that people being able to get around space is more important than people being able to exclude people from space. I feel there is a decent balance in this regard in the current meta. I dont think that riskless travel in 0.0 should be possible in form like it is now. warp-jump-warp-jump until you're there.
Adrie Atticus wrote:1. Get into an interceptor yourself 2. Get a friend in a ship with at least 3 mids 3. Fit remote sebos to friend's ship 4. Apply resebos to interceptor to gain over 4500 scan res to make the ceptor lock time below 0.5 seconds 5. When a ceptor appears, you have 50/50 chance to catch it on the same tick as it decloaked, apply point (or 3) at the same time 6. ??? 7. Profit see above. In majority of cases I cant even start locking them as they are already in warp. Locked overview, spamclicking on bottom of OV like mad, ship decloaks and is already unlockable because in warp. You might have scanres of 25000 it wont help you. |
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Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
86
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Posted - 2014.11.22 13:35:17 -
[21] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:[quote=Antillie Sa'Kan][quote=Robert Caldera] the thread is not about combat interceptors but about interceptors as safe travel vessel.
So there should be no safe vessel for null travel (since we've already cleared up that cloakies are easy to catch with a couple guys and a bubble)? |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 13:47:32 -
[22] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:[quote=Antillie Sa'Kan][quote=Robert Caldera] the thread is not about combat interceptors but about interceptors as safe travel vessel.
So there should be no safe vessel for null travel (since we've already cleared up that cloakies are easy to catch with a couple guys and a bubble)?
no there shouldnt. Well T3 were already there which allowed very very safe travel which only was to fail at extreme bad luck. cloakies allow pretty safe travel if you are not a noob. pre-buff ceptors allowed pretty safe travel if you were careful and cautious. To answer your question, no there shouldnt be such a safe travel for idiots in 0.0 as nullified interceptors today. you should need a brain and some little skill to move in dangerous areas of eve as 0.0 is supposed to be. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
218
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Posted - 2014.11.22 13:58:28 -
[23] - Quote
why should there not be? given that it's already been established that these travel fit 'ceptors are laughable at combat, so they're not a threat to any pilot being sensible, nor can they carry enough to be used as effective haulers.
In all my time in WH's (this char and others) I've never been caught by a travel fit 'ceptor (though I've lost a couple to combat fit 'ceptors on WH's), and tbh, neither have I heard of it happening. In null-sec you get more intel than in WH's; you don't need to be within 14.3 AU to know "there's a neut in system so I ought to dock my bling PVE boat..." and if he cyno's your gatecamp - sorry, so could anyone else!
tl;dr HTFU
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 14:23:38 -
[24] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:why should there not be? because well, safe travel isnt eve like, even more in 0.0 or WH.
Xe'Cara'eos wrote: given that it's already been established that these travel fit 'ceptors are laughable at combat, so they're not a threat to any pilot being sensible, nor can they carry enough to be used as effective haulers.
but this thread is not about combat ceptors (even those are very hard to catch)
said someone who is advocating easy mode? |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
540
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Posted - 2014.11.22 14:28:17 -
[25] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:why should there not be? given that it's already been established that these travel fit 'ceptors are laughable at combat, so they're not a threat to any pilot being sensible, nor can they carry enough to be used as effective haulers.
They set up a camp. Ergo everything that lands in it must explode.
Now my take on this has always been I always won't be the camper...and may very well be the dude that lands in someone else's camp. So if a fish was slippery enough to clear our nets I took notes and remembered what they did. And applied it when I was stuck in a bad spot.
Travel inty's in 0.0...disco it. Heard sob story about bs' getting jumped. Well support them to no have this so bad. Personally I think its a weak argument, At many points in eve's pricing history t2 cruisers have price the same if not more. Personally I think the camp just can't find players to give up the thrill ride a t2 cruiser can be to sit and press f1. Which is cool...we all got our likes and dislikes.
But....if you can't scare up disco BS's most likely inties are off the menu for the night for stuff you can kill. Still got cruiser/bs, bs, etc. Make those kills pile up to compensate for the ones that got away by choice of what you brought. Fishing reaches you this. Somewhere out there is a mahi mahi who fought me a good 15 minutes before snapping my 75 lb test line. I don't dwell on this often however. That same trip out I caught enough smaller mahi mahi to stock the fridges of mine and several in laws families.
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Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
86
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Posted - 2014.11.22 14:29:34 -
[26] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote: but this thread is not about combat ceptors (even those are very easy to catch)
I fixed it for you
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 15:24:12 -
[27] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:Robert Caldera wrote: but this thread is not about combat ceptors (even those are very easy to catch)
I fixed it for you
sure, I guess its the reason why everyone and his dog flies interceptors nowadays in INTERCEPTORS ONLINE. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
773
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Posted - 2014.11.22 15:31:08 -
[28] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:the thread is not about combat interceptors but about interceptors as safe travel vessel. So in your opinion there is a problem with travel fit inties. Do you have any evidence to back that up?
Calling for a change based solely on your opinion is not a good way to suggest changes to the game. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
797
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Posted - 2014.11.22 15:42:03 -
[29] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: Calling for a change based solely on your opinion is not the best way to suggest changes to the game.
you just need to look around you. |
Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
228
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Posted - 2014.11.22 16:37:18 -
[30] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote: you should need a brain
Well they have enough of a brain to be flying the correct ship to beat your gate camp, so there is that.
Anyone who does die to your camp was flying the incorrect ship, and therefore has less of a brain. |
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