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Hellois Dawn
The Outlet
2
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:21:51 -
[1] - Quote
Hello
Is the Rattlesnake still a viable drone boat or was function ruined in the last update.
Im using a dommi but i would like to use a few in level 5 missions
thanks for your help |
Liam Inkuras
Mafia Redux
1362
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:57:15 -
[2] - Quote
What is the search tool
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Hellois Dawn
The Outlet
2
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Posted - 2014.11.30 17:15:48 -
[3] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:What is the search tool
Im asking because i dont know. Im also not very smart |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6641
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Posted - 2014.11.30 20:49:41 -
[4] - Quote
Use EFT and play around with the fits. Then compare.
The long and short of it is...
- the Rattlensnake is a shield tanker, the Dominix armor tanks.
- shield tanks allow for more damage mods, but less utility.
- Dominix has a drone tracking bonus, the Rattlesnake does not.
- The Rattlesnake is a drone-missile hybrid... the Dominix is a drone-other hybrid ("other" being any weapon system you prefer)
- The drone bonus on the Rattlesnake gives it about 0.5 more effective drones than a Dominix.
- The Rattlesnakes 2 "superdrones" are hard for NPCs to kill... assuming you keep an eye on them and do not use them stupidly (hint: use sentries and range).
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
104
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Posted - 2014.11.30 22:21:33 -
[5] - Quote
Or use a gecko... Aka a HAC in drone form. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
494
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:56:02 -
[6] - Quote
Aerie Evingod wrote:Or use a gecko... Aka a HAC in drone form.
I take it you haven't done any level 5 missions..
In most of them there are very evil neutralizing towers which murder any active tank. You will need at least 2x logistic boats or warp out very often.
signature
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Chris Winter
Winters Are Coming
561
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Posted - 2014.12.01 02:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: - The drone bonus on the Rattlesnake gives it about 0.5 more effective drones than a Dominix.
This isn't true at max skills. Both the Domi and the Rattlesnake have 7.5 effective drones at max skills. The rattlesnake also has that many at minimum skills, since its drone bonus is a role bonus and not tied to any skills.
The domi also has a drone optimal range bonus, which means you can use a higher damage sentry and hit farther--Gardes hit out to 50km optimal easily.
However, the Rattlesnake's tank bonus does mean that it ends up with a stronger tank, which may be important for L5s.
But really, if all you care about is drone capability, there's nothing better than a Dominix. It's unfortunate that there's no upgrade to it...I wish there was a drone marauder. |
Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.12.01 12:08:09 -
[8] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:ShahFluffers wrote: - The drone bonus on the Rattlesnake gives it about 0.5 more effective drones than a Dominix.
This isn't true at max skills. Both the Domi and the Rattlesnake have 7.5 effective drones at max skills. The rattlesnake also has that many at minimum skills, since its drone bonus is a role bonus and not tied to any skills. The domi also has a drone optimal range bonus, which means you can use a higher damage sentry and hit farther--Gardes hit out to 50km optimal easily. However, the Rattlesnake's tank bonus does mean that it ends up with a stronger tank, which may be important for L5s. But really, if all you care about is drone capability, there's nothing better than a Dominix. It's unfortunate that there's no upgrade to it...I wish there was a drone marauder.
Gonna have to say that having a gecko doing 275% damage and hit points is better than 2 gecko at 50% damage and Hit points.
Gonna let you do the math on that one.
Sentries, yes they will be even, but the two you get in the Rattler are much much harder to kill with much better alpha each than the Domi. |
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
617
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Posted - 2014.12.01 13:14:16 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:Gonna have to say that having a gecko doing 275% damage and hit points is better than 2 gecko at 50% damage and Hit points.
This is wrong.
On the Rattlesnake you get 275% bonus, in addition to the 100% without the bonus so:
- 1 Gecko that does 375% damage
On the Dominix you 50% bonus at BS V skill, plus you have space for 2 Geckos and 1 Ogre II so:
- 2 Gecko that do 150% damage each, (i.e. 300% overall) - 1 Ogro II doing 150% damage
Total for Rattlesnake = 461 DPS, total for Dominix = 464DPS
So the Domi does do more damage so long as you have Gallente Battleship V. The domi also gets a tracking bonus, which makes large drones more effective against small targets.
Though the Rattlesnake Gecko does have a lot of HP, true. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
109
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Posted - 2014.12.01 15:38:45 -
[10] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Aerie Evingod wrote:Or use a gecko... Aka a HAC in drone form. I take it you haven't done any level 5 missions.. In most of them there are very evil neutralizing towers which murder any active tank. You will need at least 2x logistic boats or warp out very often.
Ummmm.... What? |
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Chris Winter
Winters Are Coming
563
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Posted - 2014.12.01 21:01:19 -
[11] - Quote
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Gonna have to say that having a gecko doing 275% damage and hit points is better than 2 gecko at 50% damage and Hit points.
Gonna let you do the math on that one.
Sentries, yes they will be even, but the two you get in the Rattler are much much harder to kill with much better alpha each than the Domi.
As a poster above me pointed out, you forgot to include the rest of the Domi's drone bandwidth. |
Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.12.02 00:06:25 -
[12] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Gonna have to say that having a gecko doing 275% damage and hit points is better than 2 gecko at 50% damage and Hit points.
Gonna let you do the math on that one.
Sentries, yes they will be even, but the two you get in the Rattler are much much harder to kill with much better alpha each than the Domi.
As a poster above me pointed out, you forgot to include the rest of the Domi's drone bandwidth.
Domi gets to 464 with the Ogre II at max skill Rattle gets to 461 with just the Gecko at Drone skill max only
Rattle's Gecko has more hit points than a Zealot lol
And Domi's Ogre is still slow boating over to the enemy as I speak while my Gecko is already done killing the rat.
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Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
219
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Posted - 2014.12.03 06:59:40 -
[13] - Quote
It is a viable drone boat. It is also worth it to use missiles (cruise) even if using meta 4 launchers. At its current very low cost, it is a ship that is hard to beat. Since it has a better tank than the Domi, it is easy to make up for the Domi bonuses with Omni Tracking Links....
Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent
899
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Posted - 2014.12.03 17:01:44 -
[14] - Quote
Rattler has wht 6 low slots? Fit 3x DDA IIs, 2x BCS IIs, and DCII, shield tank it, cruise fit it, don't forget your MJD, put a DLA or 2 in your utility high(s) and go to town. Darn thing gets like 1500 dps with heavies and cruise missiles. At 70km you will be out the the effective range of any PvE content that doesn't include the word "sleeper" in it. Not sure on Incursion rats.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Chris Winter
Winters Are Coming
564
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Posted - 2014.12.03 18:45:11 -
[15] - Quote
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
PS... 5x Garde II Domi and 2x Garde II Rattle both get to 421 dps... the Rattle can also you know, throw some decent DPS at range too on top of it.
Congrats, you just proved that the rattlesnake and the domi have the same number of effective drones at max skills, which is exactly what I said. |
Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.12.03 19:47:57 -
[16] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
PS... 5x Garde II Domi and 2x Garde II Rattle both get to 421 dps... the Rattle can also you know, throw some decent DPS at range too on top of it.
Congrats, you just proved that the rattlesnake and the domi have the same number of effective drones at max skills, which is exactly what I said.
No... You were trying to make the argument that the same number was equal between the two. And I was making the argument that the RS gets its drones to come home because they can weather full aggro for more than an alpha strike.
The RS can also pump out DPS ON TOP of the drones, and with the mid slot tank it can use effective damage mods. The Domi cannot.
So yeah, DPS to DPS for just the drones, they are equal. That is hardly a ringing endorsement for why the Domi is the better ship since drones are all it's got. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
779
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Posted - 2014.12.03 20:14:03 -
[17] - Quote
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:So yeah, DPS to DPS for just the drones, they are equal. That is hardly a ringing endorsement for why the Domi is the better ship since drones are all it's got.
the drone optimal and tracking bonus is pretty cool.
tbh it comes down to use and cost. sometimes I would want a domi, sometimes a rattler.
I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me!
In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod
- Mara Rinn
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
405
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:14:41 -
[18] - Quote
The RS is still great as a drone boat.
One of the best L4 ships in the game. |
Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.12.03 21:16:26 -
[19] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:So yeah, DPS to DPS for just the drones, they are equal. That is hardly a ringing endorsement for why the Domi is the better ship since drones are all it's got. the drone optimal and tracking bonus is pretty cool. tbh it comes down to use and cost. sometimes I would want a domi, sometimes a rattler.
Optimal and tracking is nice, but with the plethora of mids and the lows free to use on the rattle you can more than make up for it. Besides, the Gecko doesn't need either tracking or optimal bonus really. Cost, not much of a difference. 190 for a domi and 450 for a RS. RS is just hands down the winner if you have any kind of decent skills and arent completely afk. |
Chris Winter
Winters Are Coming
564
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:08:12 -
[20] - Quote
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: No... You were trying to make the argument that the same number was equal between the two. And I was making the argument that the RS gets its drones to come home because they can weather full aggro for more than an alpha strike.
I never claimed that "the same number was equal between the two." I have no idea where you got that from. And I never disagreed that the rattlesnake's drones have more hit points.
Quote: The RS can also pump out DPS ON TOP of the drones, and with the mid slot tank it can use effective damage mods. The Domi cannot.
True but entirely irrelevant to the thread which says in the title "as a pure drone boat."
Quote: So yeah, DPS to DPS for just the drones, they are equal. That is hardly a ringing endorsement for why the Domi is the better ship since drones are all it's got.
Drones are all that this thread is talking about. |
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Chris Winter
Winters Are Coming
564
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Posted - 2014.12.03 22:10:09 -
[21] - Quote
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Optimal and tracking is nice, but with the plethora of mids and the lows free to use on the rattle you can more than make up for it.
Actually, due to stacking penalties, you can't make up for it. A domi can easily get Garde IIs to 50km+25km range and .08 tracking. The rattlesnake can't even come close to that. |
Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.12.03 23:11:03 -
[22] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:
Optimal and tracking is nice, but with the plethora of mids and the lows free to use on the rattle you can more than make up for it.
Actually, due to stacking penalties, you can't make up for it. A domi can easily get Garde IIs to 50km+25km range and .08 tracking. The rattlesnake can't even come close to that.
You do know a full bonus Domi only gets 37.5% increase right?
Anyways, sure you are right, Domi's are OP. They are the best. No one should use a Rattlesnake. Which is probably why no one does right? |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
783
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Posted - 2014.12.04 04:56:09 -
[23] - Quote
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:Optimal and tracking is nice, but with the plethora of mids and the lows free to use on the rattle you can more than make up for it. Besides, the Gecko doesn't need either tracking or optimal bonus really. Cost, not much of a difference. 190 for a domi and 450 for a RS. RS is just hands down the winner if you have any kind of decent skills and arent completely afk.
the cost factor is way closer than I was thinking, can't seem to get my brain to accept domis don't cost 48 mil, and make money from insurance when they go boom.
also 50+25 on garde IIs comes from 2x omnis, one with optimal script one with no script. 2 tracking speed scripted ones on top will get you up to the 0.08 figure.
I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me!
In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod
- Mara Rinn
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3911
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Posted - 2014.12.04 05:26:15 -
[24] - Quote
Using the Rattlesnake as a pure drone ship is like shield tanking a Megathron or using the Celestis as an energy neutralizer ship.
Yes, you can do it. No, you generally should not, as it does not play to the strengths of the hull.
The Rattler is an extremely strong ship if used properly, which means Gecko + missiles at close range, or 2x sentry and long range missiles.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Chris Winter
Winters Are Coming
564
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Posted - 2014.12.04 06:36:30 -
[25] - Quote
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote:You do know a full bonus Domi only gets 37.5% increase right and no bonus to falloff? You do know that has nothing to do with my statement, right? A rattler simply cannot get the same range and tracking on drones that a domi can. Even if it devotes all of its midslots to omnis, it just won't work. Try it in EFT if you don't believe me.
And yes, I'm quite aware that using a rattler just for drones isn't the best idea. |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
161
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Posted - 2014.12.04 07:00:08 -
[26] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:You will need at least 2x logistic boats or warp out very often.
ur doing it wrong
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Kestrix
Industrial Renaissance MinTek Conglomerate
149
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Posted - 2014.12.04 08:10:39 -
[27] - Quote
Hellois Dawn wrote:Hello
Is the Rattlesnake still a viable drone boat or was function ruined in the last update.
Im using a dommi but i would like to use a few in level 5 missions
thanks for your help
Yes |
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
758
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Posted - 2014.12.05 22:10:49 -
[28] - Quote
any ship where you ignore one of it's bonuses will be subpar to another in the same class where you use all of them. |
Toad The Hitchhiker
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2014.12.05 22:16:11 -
[29] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:any ship where you ignore one of it's bonuses will be subpar to another in the same class where you use all of them.
I pray you aren't talking about the Rattle vs the Domi. The RS actually gets more than 2 bonuses
The original domi had a bonus to large hybrids... no one seems to miss it lol |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2014.12.05 22:24:30 -
[30] - Quote
Toad The Hitchhiker wrote: The original domi had a bonus to large hybrids... no one seems to miss it lol
That stupid buff went now to Navy Dominix, and only makes it worse than simple Dominix :( |
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