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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)

CCP Phantom C C P C C P Alliance 5034	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:15:46 - [1] - Quote With the Rhea release on December 9 we will see changes to clones and what is happening with you skillpoints when you get pod killed. The most important changes are: Removal of all clone grades No general loss of skillpoints upon death (special cases, like T3 cruiser aside) Setting your home station will cost 100,000 ISK instead of 5400 ISK. Read more about these changes, why they are introduced and what other development we can expect regarding clones and death in CCP Terminus' latest dev blog A new Era of Clones. CCP Phantom - Senior Community Representative - Volunteer Manager

Michal Jita Lords Of The Universe 13	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:21:22 - [2] - Quote Looking forward to see what death brings in future ... Edit: First :)
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 482	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:21:59 - [3] - Quote Confirming I've never lost JDCV at least twice.
Bariolage Control F9 33	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:22:29 - [4] - Quote I really appreciate these meaningful changes guys.
Quintessen Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos 443	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:30:00 - [5] - Quote Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare.
Adunh Slavy 1595	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:34:32 - [6] - Quote Yay! Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
Winter Archipelago Thera Industries 302	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:37:37 - [7] - Quote Time to buy up a thousand frigs, and then clog the Thera undocks with my wrecks and corpses! Join the channel *Thera Industries* in-game for a general public channel for Thera-based industrialists.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1006	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:37:49 - [8] - Quote should definitely remove the SP loss on T3's Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
Dierdra Vaal Interstellar Stargate Syndicate 312	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:44:33 - [9] - Quote I'm going to lose so many rifters in rhea [center][i]Veto #205 Director Emeritus at EVE University CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman[/i][/center]
witchking42 UNFRL Fleet Operations 122	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:44:50 - [10] - Quote Looks good.

Valterra Craven 388	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:46:55 - [11] - Quote You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints: Quote: Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player. You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP. In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly.
UFS Fenix United Tactical Operations and Manufacturing 0	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:51:05 - [12] - Quote What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that. Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one. Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game. We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up. Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed. What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless... Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun. Yes you can have my stuff, for the trolls. It seems like in order to bring in more scrubs into eve you alienate the Veterans.
Damjan Fox Fox Industries and Exploration 61	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:51:52 - [13] - Quote Quote: should definitely remove the SP loss on T3's I think that's exactly, what we are going to get, with the Tech3 rebalance. From the dev blog: Quote: Subsystem skills related to T3 Strategic Cruisers will still work as they did before. This is because their skill loss is a component of the ship balancing itself. This may be revisited in the future.
Helison Times of Ancar Mature Decadence 0	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:52:27 - [14] - Quote While I agree that the process of upgrading clones was not the best experience, I dislike how much the death penalty is reduced with this change. Now it will be better in most cases to just self-destruct the pod after losing a ship than trying to get the pod safe. Please do not continue this path of making EVE easier and easier!

CCP Terminus C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:53:27 - [15] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints: Quote: Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player. You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP. In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly. Your point did not go undebated in the office.

GeeShizzle MacCloud 492	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:55:50 - [16] - Quote CCP wrote: ... But Death is Just the Beginning These medical clone changes are just the beginning of a larger project revolving around clones and their purpose in EVE. While we are still in the early stages of design, the Rhea changes are our first step towards the future possibilities of clones. inb4 clones are an item that can be built/grown and have to be constantly resupplied in nullsec stations for people to wake up in, else they wake up in the nearest npc station with clone facilities.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 961	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:56:06 - [17] - Quote I remember screaming about that myself as I tended to build out fuel blocks to power my pos. that move kinda screwed me and a few others :-P Yaay!!!!
l0rd carlos Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire 1098	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:57:52 - [18] - Quote UFS Fenix wrote: What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. How did jump upgrade make the game challenging? German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com
Valterra Craven 388	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:58:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Terminus wrote: Your point did not go undebated in the office. Fair enough, any comments as to how the debate went and what actually decided it?
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1008	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:01:05 - [20] - Quote CCP Terminus wrote: Valterra Craven wrote: You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints: Quote: Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player. You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP. In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly. Your point did not go undebated in the office. i hope the against side won comfortably, you know when you train something it could be liable too change you just hope for the better, you can't insure against everything, eve is a game of risk Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please

Kolb Novaku Inc The Pestilent Legion 4	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:02:34 - [21] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: CCP Terminus wrote: Your point did not go undebated in the office. Fair enough, any comments as to how the debate went and what actually decided it? I think we all know how the debate went, though the deciding factor would be interesting to know. Didn't Greyscale or someone say they didn't want to redeem the points because it trivialized the efforts in training the skills up? I could be misremembering though.
Noriko Mai 1629	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:06:15 - [22] - Quote Finally \o/
Dominique Vasilkovsky BFG Tech 49	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:06:39 - [23] - Quote Will you refund the isk for the clones we are sitting in now? GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ -áDominique Vasilkovsky GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ
Lord Echon Star-Crossed Enterprises 13	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:08:23 - [24] - Quote While I prefer the new clone system in Rhea compared to the old one, I think a compromise would have been even better. If you had made clone upgrades permanent (meaning a pilot with Clone Grade XI would still have XI after being podded), you could have reduced the death penalty instead of removing it.
Phoenix Jones Isogen 5 961	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:13:14 - [25] - Quote Lord Echon wrote: While I prefer the new clone system in Rhea compared to the old one, I think a compromise would have been even better. If you had made clone upgrades permanent (meaning a pilot with Clone Grade XI would still have XI after being podded), you could have reduced the death penalty instead of removing it. I think they believe there was no point in the penalty in the first place. Basically you log in, pay 200 million isk day 1 to get clone max upgrade to never worry about it again? Ccp's decision is sound. Now to get rid of the training skill boosting implants :-) Yaay!!!!
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1182	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:20:39 - [26] - Quote Lord Echon wrote: While I prefer the new clone system in Rhea compared to the old one, I think a compromise would have been even better. If you had made clone upgrades permanent (meaning a pilot with Clone Grade XI would still have XI after being podded), you could have reduced the death penalty instead of removing it. This still creates a bunch of busywork that you have to keep track of which has no real benefit to the user. They are trying to eliminate that sort of thing when it is glaringly obvious, like it is in this case. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Barrett Fruitcake State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:22:41 - [27] - Quote Can you remove the massive sec status drop related to podding now?
Sir Livingston Club Deadspace 292	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:23:13 - [28] - Quote EVE Online videos to inform and inspire http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1420	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:27:20 - [29] - Quote This was an intelligent and reasonable decision. Whilst some people seem to be of the opinion that focusing on buzzwords and phrases is the answer to most things. There is no getting away from the fact that there are mechanics in the game, that simply make things unpleasant, without any other mitigating feature. I am pleased to see that these are being dealt with in a thoughtful manner, even though there are those who feel somewhat aggrieved, believing that bad mechanics being removed, is somehow a negative direction for the game. It is not. Removing bad, legacy, mechanics, that have the effect of making the game a negative experience, and have NO benefit, is a desireable and laudable goal. If there is any benefit to them, focus on THAT, and rebuild/redesign it. I look forward to seeing more of these changes being implemented as they are identified. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Daza Vyndre Looking For Britches 0	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:32:54 - [30] - Quote Helison wrote: Now it will be better in most cases to just self-destruct the pod after losing a ship than trying to get the pod safe. Please do not continue this path of making EVE easier and easier! Implants. This change doesn't make the game easier, it makes it less unpleasant. I really disagree with your notion of having to sink ISK to make the game difficult.

Defier Orilis Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:37:04 - [31] - Quote How do you say "AMEN" in Jovian? Cuz, I have the feeling I am going to die a lot more when the sleepers arrive...
Tahnil Sirius Fleet AXIOS. 52	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:43:39 - [32] - Quote This is a very good change! Helison wrote: While I agree that the process of upgrading clones was not the best experience, I dislike how much the death penalty is reduced with this change. Now it will be better in most cases to just self-destruct the pod after losing a ship than trying to get the pod safe. Please do not continue this path of making EVE easier and easier! It depends! If your clone has expensive implants or if your medical clone is GÇô-áfor some reason GÇô-áfar away from your staging system / reshipping point, you still want to save your pod!
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 449	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:52:21 - [33] - Quote I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities? As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP. For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons. Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations.
Eyrun Mangeiri Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 29	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:55:28 - [34] - Quote Helison wrote: While I agree that the process of upgrading clones was not the best experience, I dislike how much the death penalty is reduced with this change. Now it will be better in most cases to just self-destruct the pod after losing a ship than trying to get the pod safe. Please do not continue this path of making EVE easier and easier! And this is different from now because of what? It's not like anyone is getting poor because he is buying clone upgrades o_o I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song.
Vartan Sarkisian Reasonable People Of Sound Mind 163	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:55:40 - [35] - Quote CCP Terminus wrote: Valterra Craven wrote: You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints: Quote: Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player. You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP. In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly. Your point did not go undebated in the office. Debated and yet ultimately ignored it would seem. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.
Draahk Chimera 0ne Percent. Odin's Call 41	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:56:14 - [36] - Quote I do not like this change one bit, and few of your (CCP) arguments are valid. Quote: A choice between a bad option of losing ISK, and a worse option of losing skillpoints. You can say that about almost everything in EVE. You can make a poor choice by paying ISK for a hurricane, or a worse one by flying an ibis. Quote: Small lapses of forgetfulness will no longer cause players to retrain weeks of lost skillpoint time. Will you also replace the ships of pilots who "forgot" it was a bad idea to jump wormholes without a scout? Quote: In addition, veteran players will have more reasons to undock in cheaper ships No they wont. I am a 2005 character and I pvp in frigs and t1 cruisers all the time. The reason being that I do not have high grade slave implants. Many of my friends are also that age or even older and they too pvp in small ships regular. Those 04-05 toons who do not undock unless in a pirate bs or a capital will not start doing so just because they do not have to pay for a clone. It is the pirate implants that is the big cost you see. Quote: Forgetting to upgrade the clone and losing skill points because of that is a terrible experience for new players This is your (CCP) only valid argument and could be fixed by a warning box for players younger then, say, 3 months rather then taking away one huge risk vs. reward (also known as Darwinism) from EVE. 404 - Image not found
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 378	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:59:36 - [37] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities? As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP. For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons. Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations. You can't set your clone to a non-medical station anymore with the abolition of podjumping.
C DeLeon Ministry of War Amarr Empire 307	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:01:27 - [38] - Quote It would be awesome if we would be able to manufacture clones with specialized bonuses (like bonus on scanning skills, command ship bonuses, ceptor bonuses, mining bonuses etc etc), being able to put implants in all of them and swap between the clones any time as long as the clone is at the same station as where we are. We should be able to haul around clones in the ships cargo hold. Death and clones would be tied to the economy and there would a real choice around the whole death is punishing and risk vs reward idea (better clones would cost more). Also I don't like the current implant system. If we use some implants for a specific activity, we pretty much stuck with it for the next 24 hours until we can swap jump clones. I see it as the same problem as not going out and taking risks in small scale pvp because of high clone costs. It would solve this too. (And we should be able to salvage some of the implants out of the corpses. Just imagine it! Collecting corpses as a new profession in eve)
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 449	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:02:21 - [39] - Quote EvilweaselFinance wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities? As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP. For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons. Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations. You can't set your clone to a non-medical station anymore with the abolition of podjumping. Incorrect I believe. You can still set your clone location to your corporation office, which doesn't have to have a medical facility.

CCP Terminus C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:02:42 - [40] - Quote Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote: Will you refund the isk for the clones we are sitting in now? There will be no refunds relating to the removal of the upgrade mechanic. It is both impractical (determining when a person last bought their clone and for what price seeing as factional warfare and previous balancing has changed prices) and undesirable from our view to do so.


EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 378	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:05:13 - [41] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Incorrect I believe. You can still set your clone location to your corporation office, which doesn't have to have a medical facility. You can do this once a year. Then you can't change it for the entire year without being locked out. Any corp that is getting podded enough to care where their clone is won't find that loophole all that useful given the downside.
Valterra Craven 390	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:06:34 - [42] - Quote Harvey James wrote: i hope the against side won comfortably, you know when you train something it could be liable too change you just hope for the better, you can't insure against everything, eve is a game of risk Except insurance actually exists in this game... That aside, what logical reason are arguing against skill point resets on changes? Every time Turbine made a change to how Legendary Items worked in Lord of the Rings Online, all of the points spent on legacies were reset. Every. single. time. They practically made changes to LI's every patch. If something changes players should have the option of choosing to invest those SP into something else. Keep in mind I'm not arguing the extreme that SP should be refunded on balance changes like if they change the OP ship of the month like the ISHTAR and nerfed it. What I am saying is that when the skill changes roles like the Material Efficiency skill did, that the SP should have been refunded.
Valterra Craven 390	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:08:50 - [43] - Quote Kolb wrote: Didn't Greyscale or someone say they didn't want to redeem the points because it trivialized the efforts in training the skills up? I seem to remember an argument along those lines, or something similar. I just find it incredibly hypocritical to not make the change to SP then, but make the clone change now using reasoning that works for both of the changes.
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 334	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:09:19 - [44] - Quote CCP Phantom wrote: With the Rhea release on December 9 we will see changes to clones and what is happening with you skillpoints when you get pod killed. The most important changes are: Removal of all clone grades No general loss of skillpoints upon death (special cases, like T3 cruiser aside) Setting your home station will cost 100,000 ISK instead of 5400 ISK. Read more about these changes, why they are introduced and what other development we can expect regarding clones and death in CCP Terminus' latest dev blog A new Era of Clones. So death just became a little less painful and cold hard eve universe a lot more friendly and fluffy I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Dr Cedric Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor 81	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:09:53 - [45] - Quote Granted, some will take my following statement and simply say "that was your choice!" On the other hand: I have been playing for 10 years, and my subscription has been active for 9.5 of those. I love this game, enough to call it a hobby and to base life choices on it! I have a record of almost every single pod death I've suffered, (or at least those since the game started tracking it). I'm able to play maybe 5 hours a week, and when i do I participate with the group im with. If its mining or anoms or PvP, I join right in. Its taken me thise 10 years to accrue the 2B in assets and 500M in liquid ISK on this character. When (not if) i get podded it hurts, as each of thise pods cost 30M+ ISK each. So, my real question: can we get a refund of the ISK invested in a soon-to-be useless mechanic? Playing the game would take me, personally, 8 weeks or so to make back that ISK. Im willing and able to do it, but I'd much rather be making content for other players, rather than ratting. Thanks for the consideration Cedric
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 334	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:12:01 - [46] - Quote CCP Terminus wrote: Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote: Will you refund the isk for the clones we are sitting in now? There will be no refunds relating to the removal of the upgrade mechanic. It is both impractical (determining when a person last bought their clone and for what price seeing as factional warfare and previous balancing has changed prices) and undesirable from our view to do so. Isnt the current system an isk sink? What are you going to do to replace it and prevent isk inflation? I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 449	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:13:10 - [47] - Quote EvilweaselFinance wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Incorrect I believe. You can still set your clone location to your corporation office, which doesn't have to have a medical facility. You can do this once a year. Then you can't change it for the entire year without being locked out. Any corp that is getting podded enough to care where their clone is won't find that loophole all that useful given the downside. I'm not sure how you don't see this, but this is incredibly useful, and in fact game changing for a corporation who lives in NPC null for instance where medical facilities are sparse. Now I can setup a corporation office at any location without having to worry about medical facilities, it literally planes the whole geography of a region such as Stain as certain areas where no go beforehand. I get the one year cooldown drawback, but that will have little effect in reality as most corporations and pilots who operate in the area where I am stick to one location anyway, so they will simply set their clone at the new facility and then leave it there for good.
Serenit Adoulin Animus Supra Corpus Most Usual Suspects 18	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:19:34 - [48] - Quote Well i think thats a solid change :D I acutally saw people skill themself a entiere new character after their high skillled capital and whatnot else toon, so they could just get back in a HAC and go for PVP without risking a 200m+ pod. (Without any implants) That was before the clone grades got cheaper. After all those who would be really good in flying t1 frigates often don't do it because of too high SP on the toon. Great job CCP. Looking forward to take revenge on supercap pilots in a frig 1v1 :D
Ab'del Abu Atlantis Ascendant 107	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:22:44 - [49] - Quote Inb4 pod fatigue. You die, you're skills are temporarily diminished.
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition. 5690	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:24:22 - [50] - Quote One of the best changes yet! The Paradox

Aliventi Hard Knocks Inc. 780	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:30:43 - [51] - Quote First: Awesome. This is a fantastic change that has been a long time coming. Great job getting this done. Second, I honestly hope you all will continue this trend and look at attributes, attribute implants, and remaps. So much of the logic you just gave against clone grades applies to attributes. I'll highlight a few: New players can be badly surprised by this system since they have so many other important things to learn. The attribute and remap system is difficult for a new player to understand. I cannot tell you how many times I have see new players waste all their remaps without having a clue as to what they should have done. I have heard everything from just plain clueless all the way to RPG players who who though Charisma would help them talk to NPCs. Forgetting to upgrade the clone and losing skill points because of that is a terrible experience for new players. Not knowing or being able to afford implants is an SP loss compared to what you could have had. Same with remaps. Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player. If only you didn't have to pay ~500 mil for +5 implants to train perfectly on top of what you already paid just to play the game to get perfect sp/hour. In addition, veteran players will have more reasons to undock in cheaper ships, furthering our goal of increased interactivity within the game, since the cost of the higher clone grades could be orders of magnitude more than the cost of a PvP ship hull. We expect more risks to be taken more often by veterans because of this change. +5 implants make veterans not want to undock and put those implants at risk. Even +3 implants make new players not want to do anything dangerous and put those implants at risk. Small lapses of forgetfulness will no longer cause players to retrain weeks of lost skillpoint time. This too should encourage veterans to fly even more boldly into battle without worrying about protecting valuable skills. If your goal is to "Encourage veterans to fly even more boldly into battle with worrying about protecting X" then attribute implants need to die in a fire. Oh and my favorite: We want every choice you make as a player to impact the world around you. From the rookie ship mining Veldspar to calling targets in the largest Alliance battles, your actions in the game should have meaning and affect other players either directly or indirectly. Attribute, attribute implants, and remaps IN NO WAY are a choice that a player makes that impacts the world around them. They DO NOT affect other players directly or indirectly. And add in: The same cannot be said for the current clone death mechanics. They are not a real choice, they are an illusion of choice. A choice between a bad option of losing ISK, and a worse option of losing skillpoints. A choice which does not affect the EVE universe as a whole, other than to empty players accounts of ISK and discourage the same interactions we want to foster. Attributes have this one nailed. The illusion of choice is that you had a choice more beneficial than optimal remaps and the best implants you can afford. You lose isk buying implants or you lose SP for not having them. Attributes do not affect the Eve universe as a whole. Attribute implants empty players wallets of isk and discourage the interactions you want to foster. For the love of New Even: GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system.
Gaia Ma'chello V.I.C.E. 115	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:30:59 - [52] - Quote Grammar police alert! "what is happening with you skillpoints when you get pod killed. " Should be: "with your skill points" Beyond that, I like not having to worry about med clones. It was just an annoyance, and a dis-enabler.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent 893	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:32:42 - [53] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: Confirming I've never lost JDCV at least twice. Lost Wing Commander 5 here. Looks strange having FC 4 and WC 4. Still haven't retrained it. As for what clone death may bring in the future, I am looking forward to scavenging implants and reprocessing biomass for a new clone industry. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Alty McAltypants Eretz Israel 3	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:33:35 - [54] - Quote Overall, its a good change. It has removed that niggle that we would all get about when shipping up and weighing up the cost (or time to recoup the cost) of losing a clone. The 'cold hard eve' isn't dead, you can still plug in a bil + of implants or fit faction modules CCP Terminus wrote: These medical clone changes are just the beginning of a larger project revolving around clones and their purpose in EVE. While we are still in the early stages of design, the Rhea changes are our first step towards the future possibilities of clones. We will maintain the meaningful nature of death and we are going to give you ways to interact with that death which will affect the whole EVE universe. So far in this thread ideas on: 1) Growing clones to sell to players 2) Growing clones with specific enhanced abilities To add 3) Clones for espionage...from a corpse, clone another pod pilot (set a pretty low time period on their shelf life like 15 mins or something). You could house them in a clove vat, break them out and infiltrate an enemy stronghold before you become gue! 4) Pod cannon, fire capsuleer pods around for no apparent point/reason. 5) Corpse cannon, see 4) but with corpses 6) Corpse implant salvaging (an idea that's pretty old but nonetheless)... 7) Corpse collection - gotta catch me all ... I will stop now
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 451	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:36:19 - [55] - Quote Judging from some of the posts by players in this thread, I believe there are many other games which would be better suited to themselves other than eve. What I am basically reading is people basically want to remove all consequences from the game. Leave eve as one of the few niche game where consequences matter, there are plenty of other games for people who don't like consequences.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1182	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:40:31 - [56] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Judging from some of the posts by players in this thread, I believe there are many other games which would be better suited to themselves other than eve. What I am basically reading is people basically want to remove all consequences from the game. Leave eve as one of the few niche game where consequences matter, there are plenty of other games for people who don't like consequences. You are overreacting. Death still has plenty of consequence. In fact, it retains ALL the consequence it used to have GÇö-áthe current system doesn't actually introduce any consequence. The current system just means you have to remember to do a little bit of busywork every time you die. There's not a meaningful choice or any sort of skill involved in remembering to update your clone. Removing the mechanic is unabashedly positive. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 451	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:42:19 - [57] - Quote Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Judging from some of the posts by players in this thread, I believe there are many other games which would be better suited to themselves other than eve. What I am basically reading is people basically want to remove all consequences from the game. Leave eve as one of the few niche game where consequences matter, there are plenty of other games for people who don't like consequences. You are overreacting. Death still has plenty of consequence. In fact, it retains ALL the consequence it used to have GÇö-áthe current system doesn't actually introduce any consequence. The current system just means you have to remember to do a little bit of busywork every time you die. There's not a meaningful choice or any sort of skill involved in remembering to update your clone. Removing the mechanic is unabashedly positive. Quintessen wrote: Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare. So Querns, you agree with stuff like this? I'm not talking about the removal of clones, but some of the other suggestions which players are coming up with in this thread.
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 291	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:45:11 - [58] - Quote I chose EVE because it had harsh consequences for mistakes, the possibility to lose skill points being the most important of these. Yes, losing a level V skill is indeed a negative experience (I've trained Astrometric Rangefinding V twice, herp derp), but the existence of such brutalities create the necessary contrast to positive experiences. Without butthurt, there can be no joy either. This is the yin and yang of everything, and games aren't exceptions.
Barrett Fruitcake State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:45:19 - [59] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: CCP Terminus wrote: Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote: Will you refund the isk for the clones we are sitting in now? There will be no refunds relating to the removal of the upgrade mechanic. It is both impractical (determining when a person last bought their clone and for what price seeing as factional warfare and previous balancing has changed prices) and undesirable from our view to do so. Isnt the current system an isk sink? What are you going to do to replace it and prevent isk inflation? More pvp
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1182	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:45:28 - [60] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Judging from some of the posts by players in this thread, I believe there are many other games which would be better suited to themselves other than eve. What I am basically reading is people basically want to remove all consequences from the game. Leave eve as one of the few niche game where consequences matter, there are plenty of other games for people who don't like consequences. You are overreacting. Death still has plenty of consequence. In fact, it retains ALL the consequence it used to have GÇö-áthe current system doesn't actually introduce any consequence. The current system just means you have to remember to do a little bit of busywork every time you die. There's not a meaningful choice or any sort of skill involved in remembering to update your clone. Removing the mechanic is unabashedly positive. Quintessen wrote: Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare. So Querns, you agree with stuff like this? I'm not talking about the removal of clones, but some of the other suggestions which players are coming up with in this thread. I don't agree that what you're quoting there is even remotely relevant to this discussion. There is no slippery slope here GÇö-áI'd ask that you refrain from trying to introduce one. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 378	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:46:05 - [61] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Judging from some of the posts by players in this thread, I believe there are many other games which would be better suited to themselves other than eve. What I am basically reading is people basically want to remove all consequences from the game. Leave eve as one of the few niche game where consequences matter, there are plenty of other games for people who don't like consequences. You are overreacting. Death still has plenty of consequence. In fact, it retains ALL the consequence it used to have GÇö-áthe current system doesn't actually introduce any consequence. The current system just means you have to remember to do a little bit of busywork every time you die. There's not a meaningful choice or any sort of skill involved in remembering to update your clone. Removing the mechanic is unabashedly positive. Quintessen wrote: Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare. So Querns, you agree with stuff like this? I'm not talking about the removal of clones, but some of the other suggestions which players are coming up with in this thread. that thing is a good change yes, there are numerous idiots who equate "random vicious penalties" with "consequences" and who don't really get that random vicious penalties are not a great way to implement consequences in a game

CCP Terminus C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:47:03 - [62] - Quote In regards to the comments on making clones player created, and looking at how attributes and implants work. We are definitely looking at those kinds of things and we'll see where they go. We will be looking at removing unnecessary complexity, while keeping or adding to the depth of the mechanics.

Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 451	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:49:30 - [63] - Quote Quintessen wrote: Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare. EvilweaselFinance wrote: that thing is a good change yes, there are numerous idiots who equate "random vicious penalties" with "consequences" and who don't really get that random vicious penalties are not a great way to implement consequences in a game Interesting, so you think standing penalties should also be removed. Sorry but I disagree with you here, removing medical clones has some merit if it can be replaced with an alternative, but removing standing penalties is a step too far.
Alexis Nightwish 60	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:50:09 - [64] - Quote This change is better than the previous system, but I still think that simply sending a pilot a medical bill when podded (with a modal, unavoidable pop-up window upon respawn) based on the applicable SP of the ships he/she flew from the last time he/she was in a station with medical facilities would have been a better choice. You were in a supercap and then got podded? Expensive. You were in a T1 frig and then got podded? Cheap! Power Projection: A Brighter Future
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 378	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:52:06 - [65] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Interesting, so you think standing penalties should also be removed. Sorry but I disagree with you here, removing medical clones has some merit if it can be replaced with an alternative, but removing standing penalties is a step too far. standings penalties, as implemented, are generally implemented poorly and should be looked at because it is an obtuse stupid mechanism where it's easy to screw yourself over long-term that's not to say standings penalties are a bad thing generally speaking - they could be implemented well - but the idiotic notion that "it is a consequence therefore it should stay" is dumb Alexis Nightwish wrote: This change is better than the previous system, but I still think that simply sending a pilot a medical bill when podded (with a modal, unavoidable pop-up window upon respawn) based on the applicable SP of the ships he/she flew from the last time he/she was in a station with medical facilities would have been a better choice. You were in a supercap and then got podded? Expensive. You were in a T1 frig and then got podded? Cheap! this exists, its called implants
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 334	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:52:18 - [66] - Quote Barrett Fruitcake wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: CCP Terminus wrote: Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote: Will you refund the isk for the clones we are sitting in now? There will be no refunds relating to the removal of the upgrade mechanic. It is both impractical (determining when a person last bought their clone and for what price seeing as factional warfare and previous balancing has changed prices) and undesirable from our view to do so. Isnt the current system an isk sink? What are you going to do to replace it and prevent isk inflation? More pvp Doesnt remove isk from the game - rather pvp just shuffles it around. By allowing more isk to remain in the game there should be further isk inflation making everything more expensive. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 378	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:54:59 - [67] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Doesnt remove isk from the game - rather pvp just shuffles it around. By allowing more isk to remain in the game there should be further isk inflation making everything more expensive. this is simplistic and not correct in the way you think it is part of the cost of items in this game is isk - your ship cost isk to make in fees, your faction modules cost isk to buy (in addition to LP) from the LP store, your implants also cost isk and each of those was an isk sink as they blow up they are replaced and isk goes into those sinks again i don't believe you considered any of these what makes this complex and not just you being wrong is the minor matter of default insurance and if that generally makes pvp a net isk faucet or a net isk sink
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 451	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:58:07 - [68] - Quote EvilweaselFinance wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Interesting, so you think standing penalties should also be removed. Sorry but I disagree with you here, removing medical clones has some merit if it can be replaced with an alternative, but removing standing penalties is a step too far. standings penalties, as implemented, are generally implemented poorly and should be looked at because it is an obtuse stupid mechanism where it's easy to screw yourself over long-term that's not to say standings penalties are a bad thing generally speaking - they could be implemented well - but the idiotic notion that "it is a consequence therefore it should stay" is dumb Alexis Nightwish wrote: This change is better than the previous system, but I still think that simply sending a pilot a medical bill when podded (with a modal, unavoidable pop-up window upon respawn) based on the applicable SP of the ships he/she flew from the last time he/she was in a station with medical facilities would have been a better choice. You were in a supercap and then got podded? Expensive. You were in a T1 frig and then got podded? Cheap! this exists, its called implants Well before throwing out supposedly "dumb" mechanics which have been a pillar of eve for over ten years, perhaps an alternative should be implemented instead of this knee jerk and equally idiotic stance of lets just throw everything out that makes eve harsh. What you consider random and vicious, is actually quite easy to avoid, it is only random if you don't know what you are doing as in the case of newbies who soon learn. As for standing they have already implemented a safety net so you can grind your standing back up from below -2, and if you have completely wrecked them and then want to work with an opposing faction, well tough luck, either grind them back up from level 1 agents or HTFU and stick with your current factions that you have good standings with. There is nothing random about any of the penalties you mentioned, and all can be easily avoided.
Draahk Chimera 0ne Percent. Odin's Call 42	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:58:13 - [69] - Quote Well since the Devs commenting in this thread is only qouting and answering the positive feedback it is quite clear it is one of those things they will put in regardless of player input. I will not threaten to quit as I find it a childish reaction but I will definitivly have a sour taste in my mouth while patching Rhea come dec. 9. 404 - Image not found
Ryek Darkener Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen 47	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:59:50 - [70] - Quote ... ... The Current Medical Clone System - I recognized it after I lost 2 Clones, so I wasted some skillpoints ... ... New players can be badly surprised by this system since they have so many other important things to learn. ... ... and I want to say the following: This is the reason because I love the game. As it (not so much as years before) still punishes ignorance. If I lose a 150 Mill. Skillpoint Clone, that is MY problem. If I can't afford an adequate clone, it is, already, MY problem. Because this is the reason I'm here. I find that the current clone system is in between pampered pet and die hard. If there is a good reason to improve the clone system, go ahead. But you should take into consideration that nearly anybody who survived the first year and is still playing EVE Online has the resources to buy a new skillclone or to upgrade the old one. I'm in doubt that this improvement will motivate veterans to become podded in cheap ships more often. Just my 5 ISK.

EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 378	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:02:29 - [71] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Well before throwing out supposedly "dumb" mechanics which have been a pillar of eve for over ten years, perhaps an alternative should be implemented instead of this knee jerk and equally idiotic stance of lets just throw everything out that makes eve harsh. What you consider random and vicious, is actually quite easy to avoid, it is only random if you don't know what you are doing as in the case of newbies who soon learn. this is the sort of stupid eve design heresy that should be called out and hits nearly every aspect 1) because a thing is a certain way it should remain that way 2) using "harsh" or "sandbox" in a talismanic way without actually understanding what it means and how it interacts with design 3) using "well you can learn the stupid unfun obtruse mechanism that makes it tolerable"
Jean Luc Lemmont Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 375	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:04:21 - [72] - Quote Vartan Sarkisian wrote: CCP Terminus wrote: Valterra Craven wrote: You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints: Quote: Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player. You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP. In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly. Your point did not go undebated in the office. Debated and yet ultimately ignored it would seem. If it was debated then, by definition, it was not ignored. Will I get banned for boxing!?!?! This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1182	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:05:01 - [73] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Well before throwing out supposedly "dumb" mechanics which have been a pillar of eve for over ten years, perhaps an alternative should be implemented instead of this knee jerk and equally idiotic stance of lets just throw everything out that makes eve harsh. What you consider random and vicious, is actually quite easy to avoid, it is only random if you don't know what you are doing as in the case of newbies who soon learn. As for standing they have already implemented a safety net so you can grind your standing back up from below -2, and if you have completely wrecked them and then want to work with an opposing faction, well tough luck, either grind them back up from level 1 agents or HTFU and stick with your current factions that you have good standings with. There is nothing random about any of the penalties you mentioned, and all can be easily avoided. The fact that it is easy to avoid is precisely why it is being removed GÇö-áthere is no nuance to clone grades, and the penalty is so severe that there is no choice to comply. It adds no nuance and requires no skill to mitigate, nor any sort of long term planning GÇö it's just this constant burden that you can never forget about, ever. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 451	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:09:29 - [74] - Quote EvilweaselFinance wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Well before throwing out supposedly "dumb" mechanics which have been a pillar of eve for over ten years, perhaps an alternative should be implemented instead of this knee jerk and equally idiotic stance of lets just throw everything out that makes eve harsh. What you consider random and vicious, is actually quite easy to avoid, it is only random if you don't know what you are doing as in the case of newbies who soon learn. this is the sort of stupid eve design heresy that should be called out and hits nearly every aspect 1) because a thing is a certain way it should remain that way 2) using "harsh" or "sandbox" in a talismanic way without actually understanding what it means and how it interacts with design 3) using "well you can learn the stupid unfun obtruse mechanism that makes it tolerable" What you miss, is I didn't say the mechanics cannot be improved upon. I'm in favour of replacing the medical clone mechanic with something better as at the moment it is pretty terrible. Improving mechanics does not mean you need to completely throw them out though as the posters had been suggesting in the quotes I linked. So standing penalites are harsh, answer = lets scrap standings. Medical clone mechanic doesn't offer interesting choices = lets scrap medical clones. I don't like losing implants when podded = lets remove attributes so everyone is on a level playing field. That mentality is completely wrong for the game which is what I stated, and there are already plenty of other games for players who think like this.
Jean Luc Lemmont Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 375	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:11:02 - [75] - Quote Querns wrote: The fact that it is easy to avoid is precisely why it is being removed GÇö-áthere is no nuance to clone grades, and the penalty is so severe that there is no choice to comply. It adds no nuance and requires no skill to mitigate, nor any sort of long term planning GÇö it's just this constant burden that you can never forget about, ever. This. There was absolutely no net benefit for upgrading your clone. You did so to avoid a net penalty, and there was no choice or decision making involved. You either paid the fee and kept your skill points, or you didn't, and you suffered. In that way, it was kind of like an old school protection racket. Pay up, or lose them. "Nice skill points. Be a shame if something bad happened to them." Will I get banned for boxing!?!?! This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1186	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:11:52 - [76] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: EvilweaselFinance wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Well before throwing out supposedly "dumb" mechanics which have been a pillar of eve for over ten years, perhaps an alternative should be implemented instead of this knee jerk and equally idiotic stance of lets just throw everything out that makes eve harsh. What you consider random and vicious, is actually quite easy to avoid, it is only random if you don't know what you are doing as in the case of newbies who soon learn. this is the sort of stupid eve design heresy that should be called out and hits nearly every aspect 1) because a thing is a certain way it should remain that way 2) using "harsh" or "sandbox" in a talismanic way without actually understanding what it means and how it interacts with design 3) using "well you can learn the stupid unfun obtruse mechanism that makes it tolerable" What you miss, is I didn't say the mechanics cannot be improved upon. I'm in favour of replacing the medical clone mechanic with something better as at the moment it is pretty terrible. Improving mechanics does not mean you need to completely throw them out though as the posters had been suggesting in the quotes I linked. So standing penalites are harsh, answer = lets scrap standings. Medical clone mechanic doesn't offer interesting choices = lets scrap medical clones. I don't like losing implants when podded = lets remove attributes so everyone is on a level playing field. That mentality is completely wrong for the game which is what I stated, and there are already plenty of other games for players who think like this. The problem with this is that you're conflating completely unrelated things. You're imagining a slippery slope that simply does not exist. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 293	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:16:40 - [77] - Quote Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Well before throwing out supposedly "dumb" mechanics which have been a pillar of eve for over ten years, perhaps an alternative should be implemented instead of this knee jerk and equally idiotic stance of lets just throw everything out that makes eve harsh. What you consider random and vicious, is actually quite easy to avoid, it is only random if you don't know what you are doing as in the case of newbies who soon learn. As for standing they have already implemented a safety net so you can grind your standing back up from below -2, and if you have completely wrecked them and then want to work with an opposing faction, well tough luck, either grind them back up from level 1 agents or HTFU and stick with your current factions that you have good standings with. There is nothing random about any of the penalties you mentioned, and all can be easily avoided. The fact that it is easy to avoid is precisely why it is being removed GÇö-áthere is no nuance to clone grades, and the penalty is so severe that there is no choice to comply. It adds no nuance and requires no skill to mitigate, nor any sort of long term planning GÇö it's just this constant burden that you can never forget about, ever. No, you are not making a case for removing it, only listing reasons why it could be improved.
Jean Luc Lemmont Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 375	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:16:45 - [78] - Quote Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: So standing penalites are harsh, answer = lets scrap standings. Medical clone mechanic doesn't offer interesting choices = lets scrap medical clones. I don't like losing implants when podded = lets remove attributes so everyone is on a level playing field. The problem with this is that you're conflating completely unrelated things. You're imagining a slippery slope that simply does not exist. To expand on what Querms is saying: Unlike medical clone purchases, there are meaningful choices to be made with both standings and implants. In the one case, you can make large areas of the map unaccessible, or get worse market rates on buy and sell orders. In the second case, the correct implants can make a massive difference in your performance in the game, and so choosing the correct ones (since some are conflicting choices in a single clone) becomes a decision making process with meaningful tradeoffs (do I get more direct DPS, or a higher rate of fire. If I get the higher rate of fire, do I need more capacitor to compensate...). Upgrading your medical clone had none of these. There was no decision - you simply did it because the alternative was too unpalatable to accept. King Fu Hostile wrote: No, you are not making a case for removing it, only listing reasons why it could be improved. The point being that, in this case, there is no reason to wait for the new mechanic before removing the old one becuse the old one has no net benefit to anyone. Will I get banned for boxing!?!?! This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 451	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:17:00 - [79] - Quote Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: EvilweaselFinance wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Well before throwing out supposedly "dumb" mechanics which have been a pillar of eve for over ten years, perhaps an alternative should be implemented instead of this knee jerk and equally idiotic stance of lets just throw everything out that makes eve harsh. What you consider random and vicious, is actually quite easy to avoid, it is only random if you don't know what you are doing as in the case of newbies who soon learn. this is the sort of stupid eve design heresy that should be called out and hits nearly every aspect 1) because a thing is a certain way it should remain that way 2) using "harsh" or "sandbox" in a talismanic way without actually understanding what it means and how it interacts with design 3) using "well you can learn the stupid unfun obtruse mechanism that makes it tolerable" What you miss, is I didn't say the mechanics cannot be improved upon. I'm in favour of replacing the medical clone mechanic with something better as at the moment it is pretty terrible. Improving mechanics does not mean you need to completely throw them out though as the posters had been suggesting in the quotes I linked. So standing penalites are harsh, answer = lets scrap standings. Medical clone mechanic doesn't offer interesting choices = lets scrap medical clones. I don't like losing implants when podded = lets remove attributes so everyone is on a level playing field. That mentality is completely wrong for the game which is what I stated, and there are already plenty of other games for players who think like this. The problem with this is that you're conflating completely unrelated things. You're imagining a slippery slope that simply does not exist. Lol, well I linked the posts which were calling for these things to be scrapped in the thread earlier, so not sure how much more factual you want.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1188	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:18:06 - [80] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Lol, well I linked the posts which were calling for these things to be scrapped in the thread earlier, so not sure how much more factual you want. You're not the only one making this mistake, is what I am saying. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Pic'n dor Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda 40	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:18:30 - [81] - Quote Do you plan to add a medical bay to every NPC stations since upgrading a clone is no more an issue after podkill ? This will make again non medical NPC station a valuable home system for players. As you removed remote home system setup, you can no longer setup you home station in a non medical npc station unless once a year if your corp has an office. If you deploy somewhere else within a year you can't change your home... so bad.. Rejoignez-nous : http://www.epsilon-lyr.com
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1188	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:19:00 - [82] - Quote King Fu Hostile wrote: No, you are not making a case for removing it, only listing reasons why it could be improved. Agreed GÇö-áand removing it completely, in this instance, is the best improvement that can be made. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1188	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:20:17 - [83] - Quote Pic'n dor wrote: Do you plan to add a medical bay to every NPC stations since upgrading a clone is no more an issue after podkill ? This will make again non medical NPC station a valuable home system for players. As you removed remote home system setup, you can no longer setup you home station in a non medical npc station unless once a year if your corp has an office. If you deploy somewhere else within a year you can't change your home... so bad.. It seems you have stumbled upon one of the intended consequences of the power projection damping changes made in Phoebe. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1427	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:21:41 - [84] - Quote I lost 13 pods so far (killed 910 give or take). I hardly get out of my slave set (Santo trafficante can tell) so clone costs are not the issue rather than implant costs. Make corpses a ressource (salvageable) that can be salvaged that would spark a whole new profession. What more motivation for a empire carebear than salvaging some pirats corpse is there to finally dare to go to low sec? Head hunter actually would mean something. This could also work in pve. Place some frozen corpses in exploration sites or wormhole sites (Jove went into cryo-sleep...would fit into lore to stage some "malfunctions". I guess you thought that through so I expect some mitigation that makes death still mean something. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1188	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:31:01 - [85] - Quote Eugene Kerner wrote: I lost 13 pods so far (killed 910 give or take). I hardly get out of my slave set (Santo trafficante can tell) so clone costs are not the issue rather than implant costs. Make corpses a ressource (salvageable) that can be salvaged that would spark a whole new profession. What more motivation for a empire carebear than salvaging some pirats corpse is there to finally dare to go to low sec? Head hunter actually would mean something. This could also work in pve. Place some frozen corpses in exploration sites or wormhole sites (Jove went into cryo-sleep...would fit into lore to stage some "malfunctions". I guess you thought that through so I expect some mitigation that makes death still mean something. I've always thought this was a good idea GÇö-áthe idea of folks scrambling to loot and/or salvage corpses during gatecamps always felt like a fun, if ghoulish, thing that could be added. Doing it this way means that the spoils almost always go to the aggressors rather than the person who lost the stuff, which is an added bonus in my book. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Anonymous Forumposter State War Academy Caldari State 172	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:32:09 - [86] - Quote Quoting UFS Fenix "This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve." Bye :) "Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that." And during those times you reaped the benefits of that strategy. "Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one." Apparently being upset makes you post irrationally. "Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game." You're "We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up. Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed." Please see response #3* "What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless..." Plans changed. This is common. The entire world is familiar with this happening. "Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun." You're looking at the first stage in an obstacle course and judging the entire thing based of your flawed understanding of the first part. This is just the beginning. In case you simply struggle with reading comprehension, this was made VERY clear in the blog. "Yes you can have my stuff." Thanks :) "It seems like in order to bring in more scrubs into eve you alienate the Veterans." "It seems like in order to bring NEW PLAYERS* into eve you alienate the PROBLEMS. "* FTFY
SFM Hobb3s Wrecking Shots Black Legion. 237	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:37:55 - [87] - Quote As much as I will like not having to worry about clone costs any more, CCP seems to have overlooked the strategic and tactical implications this change will have. CCP has unwittingly undone a positive combat change implemented with Phoebe with this move. With Phoebe, because you can no longer remotely move your deathclone, it was possible to incap station medical services (made easier with Phoebe), which would prevent any smart player from undocking again if they had gotten killed and podded. This is something that would be pretty useful given the hideous state of sov warfare, especially with several hundred combatants in the system, and now it will be gone.
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 293	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:40:46 - [88] - Quote Jean Luc Lemmont wrote: The point being that, in this case, there is no reason to wait for the new mechanic before removing the old one becuse the old one has no net benefit to anyone. That makes no sense, mechanics don't have to have net benefits to anyone. A game with nothing but beneficial mechanisms is not worth playing. Net penalties are just as important.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1188	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:40:55 - [89] - Quote SFM Hobb3s wrote: As much as I will like not having to worry about clone costs any more, CCP seems to have overlooked the strategic and tactical implications this change will have. CCP has unwittingly undone a positive combat change implemented with Phoebe with this move. With Phoebe, because you can no longer remotely move your deathclone, it was possible to incap station medical services (made easier with Phoebe), which would prevent any smart player from undocking again if they had gotten killed and podded. This is something that would be pretty useful given the hideous state of sov warfare, especially with several hundred combatants in the system, and now it will be gone. This would have meant more if it were possible to incap NPC 0.0 medical services. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 293	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:43:10 - [90] - Quote Querns wrote: King Fu Hostile wrote: No, you are not making a case for removing it, only listing reasons why it could be improved. Agreed GÇö-áand removing it completely, in this instance, is the best improvement that can be made. Unfortunately it doesn't actually improve anything. No new gameplay, choices or benefits are created with the removal.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1188	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:46:15 - [91] - Quote King Fu Hostile wrote: Querns wrote: King Fu Hostile wrote: No, you are not making a case for removing it, only listing reasons why it could be improved. Agreed GÇö-áand removing it completely, in this instance, is the best improvement that can be made. Unfortunately it doesn't actually improve anything. No new gameplay, choices or benefits are created with the removal. Sure it does GÇö-áit allows people with large amounts of SP to more readily fly smaller, more vulnerable ships. You benefit from not having to have this little bit of pointless domain knowledge at the forefront of your mind every time you die. You benefit from not losing SP due to forgetting a pointless thing. There is no mastery involved with clone costs. They are just a thing you have to remember to do in an environment with no time or financial pressure. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Adunh Slavy 1595	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:48:43 - [92] - Quote For those that do not like this change, because you are of the opinion that it makes Eve too easy, feel free to send me the ISK that you would have had to pay before the change any time you are podded. I will hold that ISK in escrow for you for ever and ever, then for you, Eve can be just as difficult as before and the rest of us no-fee pod scrubs can bask in your elite glory. No, don't like that solution ... what are you arguing again? Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
Gogela The Conference Elite CODE. 3279	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:49:06 - [93] - Quote As a pod who's lost a lot of SP to inattention I'm pretty happy about this change. Now if only we could salvage implant components from frozen corpses...
Adunh Slavy 1595	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:52:31 - [94] - Quote CCP Terminus wrote: In regards to the comments on making clones player created, and looking at how attributes and implants work. We are definitely looking at those kinds of things and we'll see where they go. We will be looking at removing unnecessary complexity, while keeping or adding to the depth of the mechanics. Player made implants, from harvesting raw materials, intermediate processing and final good are where it is at. There should be a minimum of three levels of production, four would be ideal, five would be pushing it. Mix in new resources and old. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
Beledia Ilphukiir Proffessional Experts Group 45	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:54:00 - [95] - Quote King Fu Hostile wrote: Jean Luc Lemmont wrote: The point being that, in this case, there is no reason to wait for the new mechanic before removing the old one becuse the old one has no net benefit to anyone. That makes no sense, mechanics don't have to have net benefits to anyone. A game with nothing but beneficial mechanisms is not worth playing. Net penalties are just as important. A penalty for its own sake is just pointless punishment. A penalty as part of a conscious game design can be a good thing and provide for interesting gameplay. The old system was always a bad system, but it did have mitigating circumstances. Mainly the ISK sink and the prevention of free teleportation through podding. The problem with it now is, that the ISK sink could always be transferred to better gameplay systems and easy teleportation to the destination of your choice got nerfed. Basically at the moment the minor mitigating points have been largely removed, while the downsides are still there. The whole system is now nothing but a cancerous growth with little purpose and no enjoyment, so there is no reason to preserve it anymore. A new system maybe be build where it once stood, but getting rid of the old one is a good chance no matter if those plans ever come to fruition or not.
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1142	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:59:22 - [96] - Quote I swear if in the next dev blog you say "We are removing pirate implant sets because they make it to hard for new players to fight against older players" or something along those lines... You had better not. I can't say just how awesome the different playstyles garnered by the pirate implant sets are. Love being fast tackle? Snakes. In an armor BS? Slaves. Soloing in a Maelstrom? Crystals. If anything, introduce new ones... Also, if you remove death penalties altogether, then it wouldn't really feel right. TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us My ship fits
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 293	Posted - 2014.12.02 18:59:41 - [97] - Quote Querns wrote: King Fu Hostile wrote: Querns wrote: King Fu Hostile wrote: No, you are not making a case for removing it, only listing reasons why it could be improved. Agreed GÇö-áand removing it completely, in this instance, is the best improvement that can be made. Unfortunately it doesn't actually improve anything. No new gameplay, choices or benefits are created with the removal. Sure it does GÇö-áit allows people with large amounts of SP to more readily fly smaller, more vulnerable ships. You benefit from not having to have this little bit of pointless domain knowledge at the forefront of your mind every time you die. You benefit from not losing SP due to forgetting a pointless thing. There is no mastery involved with clone costs. They are just a thing you have to remember to do in an environment with no time or financial pressure. There was no such obstacle before, clone costs have never been connected to ship size by any game mechanic. I don't benefit from not having to remember to upgrade my clone, earlier I did benefit from remembering it.
Winter Archipelago Thera Industries 302	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:00:36 - [98] - Quote The people who are equating standings loss for running missions to having to update your clone are forgetting one critical thing: When you lose standings for one group, you're gaining standings with another group. Often, changes to standings are reflected across multiple factions. Getting a +% under Amarr also gives a +% for Caldari, Khanid, and Ammatar, while giving a -% for Gallente and Minmatar (among other less-notable factions). You are also gaining ISK and, if you're missioning as opposed to ratting, you're gaining LP. Increasing standings with one group can also give you access to jump clones and lower taxes, a trade-off for the risk of lowering your standings with other groups. With clone upgrades, there is no option. You upgrade, or you put a significant amount of time in jeopardy without having any sort of reward other than not having wasted two weeks' time. There is no benefit to clone upgrades, there is only a drawback if you don't do so. With standings, there are benefits to having higher standings, and you have to make a decision regarding whether or not those benefits are worth having lowered standings with another faction. With clone upgrades, all you get is "I either upgrade and keep the SP that I currently have, or I don't upgrade and will very likely lose two weeks' training." There is no benefit gained because you already have the SP. There is only a drawback. That isn't a true choice, whereas taking a hit to standings with one group to gain standings with another group is an actual choice. Join the channel *Thera Industries* in-game for a general public channel for Thera-based industrialists.
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 293	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:04:50 - [99] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: For those that do not like this change, because you are of the opinion that it makes Eve too easy, feel free to send me the ISK that you would have had to pay before the change any time you are podded. I will hold that ISK in escrow for you for ever and ever, then for you, Eve can be just as difficult as before and the rest of us no-fee pod scrubs can bask in your elite glory. No, don't like that solution ... what are you arguing again? It's not about the ISK, clone costs are trivial and literally nobody cares about them. However, the fear of losing skillpoints was not trivial, it was a horrible consequence for your own mistake. Now there's no fear anymore, you can lose your pod million times and it never means anything.
SFM Hobb3s Wrecking Shots Black Legion. 237	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:09:18 - [100] - Quote Querns wrote: SFM Hobb3s wrote: As much as I will like not having to worry about clone costs any more, CCP seems to have overlooked the strategic and tactical implications this change will have. CCP has unwittingly undone a positive combat change implemented with Phoebe with this move. With Phoebe, because you can no longer remotely move your deathclone, it was possible to incap station medical services (made easier with Phoebe), which would prevent any smart player from undocking again if they had gotten killed and podded. This is something that would be pretty useful given the hideous state of sov warfare, especially with several hundred combatants in the system, and now it will be gone. This would have meant more if it were possible to incap NPC 0.0 medical services. Hehe, suckers...Venal deployment best deployment

Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1142	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:09:54 - [101] - Quote Eugene Kerner wrote: I hardly get out of my slave set You hardly get out of station. #Shotsfired #Corpbanter #Imissyoubro TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us My ship fits
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7172	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:12:17 - [102] - Quote Remove T3 cruiser skillpoint loss, revamp T3. Recon makes them stronger
Ashlar Maidstone Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 128	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:13:20 - [103] - Quote @ CCP_Phantom; From what I have read to this change, I looked at the pros and cons of this and have a question for you; Are you SAYING that after all this time of logging in to set skill ques and accrueing skill points will go out the window???? Are you telling me that irregardless of how much time I or as any veteran in the past will ask, what was the ORIGINAL point of EVEN having such a system in place?? Are you telling me that after all of the time I PERSONALLY spent hard earned ISK for clone upgrades to cover my own skill point has become personally a waste of my time, energy and millions in isk thrown away......FOR NOTHING??? I prided myself for such an accomplishment to even get the required skill points to even get a battleship, fittings galore, rigs and having to skill up to even undock my BS and to see the number of points I gained which was a major accomplishment in and of it's own right. Then in conclusion contrary to others here in this discussion I have wasted my time, credit card balance for absolutely nothing. I will apologize if I sounded like I was ranting but I wasn't I was just merely emphasizsing my question in general, I do look forward to a reply by Evemail rather than the forums. In Kind Regards, Ashlar Maidstone, Space Nun for The Empire.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7172	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:15:17 - [104] - Quote CCP Terminus wrote: Valterra Craven wrote: You know what's funny? I've made this exact same argument to Greyscale et al about skillpoints: Quote: Skill point acquisition is very much tied to your subscription and the real money you spent on the game, so taking some of their skill points away can feel like wasted money to the player. You know whats worse? When that logical argument is ignored by the devs every time they change a skill. One of the biggest changes I can remember is the change to the ME % in industry recently. Players complained and complained about losing something valuable and replacing it with something worthless. And you know what? You guys didn't have a single GOOD argument for why you shouldn't have refunded everyone's SP. In my opinion every time a skill is changed regardless of how trivial or major, you should refund the SP of that skill. Period. No questions asked. SP is simply too intertwined with the subscription costs to treat changes to them so nonchalantly. Your point did not go undebated in the office. I hope discussion was like: CCP dev1:....meh CCP dev2:...me too meh. Recon makes them stronger
Sven Viko VIkolander Friends and Feminists 313	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:16:10 - [105] - Quote This is a fantastic change. Has been suggested for years. The mechanic primarily harms newer players. There are no good arguments against it. Etc. etc.. bravo. I will tell you exactly what needs to be changed after this, though: Jump clones need to be significantly changed, so that jumping in the same system to switch implants is completely removed from jumping across the galaxy for fast travel. The whole "clones as specialized implant sets" system and "clone as fast travel" mechanic need to be completely separated. Along with that, you need to allow for multiple clones in a single station. THEN, you need to allow clones to be moved by players, so that if I want to deploy to an area I don't have to spend days jumping to each of my clones and moving them, instead I can put them all in a ship and take the huge risk to fly them to my destination. Those changes are at the top of my list for improvements to EVE by a wide margin.
Anonymous Forumposter State War Academy Caldari State 172	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:17:56 - [106] - Quote Ashlar Maidstone wrote: @ CCP_Phantom; From what I have read to this change, I looked at the pros and cons of this and have a question for you; Are you SAYING that after all this time of logging in to set skill ques and accrueing skill points will go out the window???? Are you telling me that irregardless of how much time I or as any veteran in the past will ask, what was the ORIGINAL point of EVEN having such a system in place?? Are you telling me that after all of the time I PERSONALLY spent hard earned ISK for clone upgrades to cover my own skill point has become personally a waste of my time, energy and millions in isk thrown away......FOR NOTHING??? I prided myself for such an accomplishment to even get the required skill points to even get a battleship, fittings galore, rigs and having to skill up to even undock my BS and to see the number of points I gained which was a major accomplishment in and of it's own right. Then in conclusion contrary to others here in this discussion I have wasted my time, credit card balance for absolutely nothing. I will apologize if I sounded like I was ranting but I wasn't I was just merely emphasizsing my question in general, I do look forward to a reply by Evemail rather than the forums. In Kind Regards, Ashlar Maidstone, Space Nun for The Empire. Nothing you did was a waste of time as at the time you did it, it mattered and you benefited from it. This change doesn't go back and remove the benefits you received during that time, it just changes the way things impact you going forward. Your logic here is horrible.
Anonymous Forumposter State War Academy Caldari State 172	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:19:31 - [107] - Quote Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: This is a fantastic change. Has been suggested for years. The mechanic primarily harms newer players. There are no good arguments against it. Etc. etc.. bravo. I will tell you exactly what needs to be changed after this, though: Jump clones need to be significantly changed, so that jumping in the same system to switch implants is completely removed from jumping across the galaxy for fast travel. The whole "clones as specialized implant sets" system and "clone as fast travel" mechanic need to be completely separated. Along with that, you need to allow for multiple clones in a single station. THEN, you need to allow clones to be moved by players, so that if I want to deploy to an area I don't have to spend days jumping to each of my clones and moving them, instead I can put them all in a ship and take the huge risk to fly them to my destination. Those changes are at the top of my list for improvements to EVE by a wide margin. This.
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1427	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:25:30 - [108] - Quote Warde Guildencrantz wrote: Eugene Kerner wrote: I hardly get out of my slave set You hardly get out of station. #Shotsfired #Corpbanter #Imissyoubro heyheyhey...I did yesterday...Blopsed a Fcon BS fleet. They had spider Domis and ****...was not even easy to kill them. #feedsthebabyduringops #shotstaken #ilikeboobies TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:25:56 - [109] - Quote Ashlar Maidstone wrote: stuff What exactly is your complaint here? They're removing skill point loss on death, not messing with your ability to fly a battleship or whatever you do in highsec. This is a great change for everyone.
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF 424	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:28:56 - [110] - Quote Quintessen wrote: Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare. -9.8 faction standing with gallente and proud of it!

Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:30:05 - [111] - Quote CCP: Does this mean you can look at removing the need for medical bays on stations? After Rhea, the only use for them will be to set Jump Clones and to manually change your clone location. What if we set our corp HQ to a station without a medical bay and then use the built in feature to change our clone location to that station? I haven't tried that in game and don't want to blow a year cd on it :) After this change it seems like an additional unnecessary requirement for people. The days of pod cloning are over, so aside from jump clones, we're stuck flying everywhere manually anyways.
rsantos TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh 23	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:31:42 - [112] - Quote Would love to see some stats on skill point loss
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF 424	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:36:03 - [113] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: EvilweaselFinance wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities? As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP. For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons. Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations. You can't set your clone to a non-medical station anymore with the abolition of podjumping. Incorrect I believe. You can still set your clone location to your corporation office, which doesn't have to have a medical facility. This is correct. Reverse pod-jumping back to a friendly station or your home station leaves the other clone in the place you jumped from. This is a commonly accepted tactic for day ops in enemy fw hisec, or running nullsec missions in pirate space. You can pod jump FROM anywhere you're not locked out of; it just takes a little effort.
Ashlar Maidstone Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 129	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:38:54 - [114] - Quote Anonymous Forumposter wrote: Ashlar Maidstone wrote: @ CCP_Phantom; From what I have read to this change, I looked at the pros and cons of this and have a question for you; Are you SAYING that after all this time of logging in to set skill ques and accrueing skill points will go out the window???? Are you telling me that irregardless of how much time I or as any veteran in the past will ask, what was the ORIGINAL point of EVEN having such a system in place?? Are you telling me that after all of the time I PERSONALLY spent hard earned ISK for clone upgrades to cover my own skill point has become personally a waste of my time, energy and millions in isk thrown away......FOR NOTHING??? I prided myself for such an accomplishment to even get the required skill points to even get a battleship, fittings galore, rigs and having to skill up to even undock my BS and to see the number of points I gained which was a major accomplishment in and of it's own right. Then in conclusion contrary to others here in this discussion I have wasted my time, credit card balance for absolutely nothing. I will apologize if I sounded like I was ranting but I wasn't I was just merely emphasizsing my question in general, I do look forward to a reply by Evemail rather than the forums. In Kind Regards, Ashlar Maidstone, Space Nun for The Empire. Nothing you did was a waste of time as at the time you did it, it mattered and you benefited from it. This change doesn't go back and remove the benefits you received during that time, it just changes the way things impact you going forward. Your logic here is horrible. P.S. "irregardless" should be "regardless." LOL my bad spelling, blame it on my auto-spellchecker! Well still tho I feel like I wasted a tremendous amount of time and resources to get to where I'm at today, but thanks for your input tho!
Adunh Slavy 1596	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:10:43 - [115] - Quote King Fu Hostile wrote: ... it was a horrible consequence for your own mistake ... Which mistake was that? Going out flying around and having fun? Yes that is a horrible mistake, let's keep everyone locked up in the stations. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7176	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:31:35 - [116] - Quote Don't cry people, you wil have occasion to shoot some old, inexpewpewienced players without implants in their heads flying in cheap frigates. They will not cry, so why should you? Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
Commissar Kate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 98960	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:32:47 - [117] - Quote Good call CCP. I'm excited to see what you guys have in store for clones after this change. Unlock all the clothes \|\| My Fanclub Harmless - Penniless - Aimless
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1189	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:40:13 - [118] - Quote Bagrat Skalski wrote: inexpewpewienced You're not very good at making portmanteaus. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Miss Doggy Zahadu 16	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:41:53 - [119] - Quote CCP Terminus wrote: In regards to the comments on making clones player created, and looking at how attributes and implants work. We are definitely looking at those kinds of things and we'll see where they go. We will be looking at removing unnecessary complexity, while keeping or adding to the depth of the mechanics. Typical CCP approach. lets change something and see how it goes lol
XR05 XR05 Corp 0	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:44:44 - [120] - Quote UFS Fenix wrote: What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that. Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one. Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game. We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up. Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed. What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless... Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun. Yes you can have my stuff, for the trolls. It seems like in order to bring in more scrubs into eve you alienate the Veterans. Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "micro" updates...

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1189	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:52:06 - [121] - Quote So many slippery slopes attempting to be erected in this thread. Please stop. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Valterra Craven 399	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:52:39 - [122] - Quote XR05 wrote: UFS Fenix wrote: What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "micro" updates... So apparently hitting a button to make sure your clone will retain all your SP is a challenge.... I don't think you guys understand what challenges are....
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:06:02 - [123] - Quote Yes, because in an active battle in space, not only do you need to reship - join up with your fleet again or join a new fleet - and shoot bad guys, you need to also remember to click three buttons and spend some ISK to make sure you still have the skills to fly that same exact ship. That is really what makes EVE challenging- those extra few clicks. Right???
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:15:15 - [124] - Quote XR05 wrote: Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "mini" updates...look what happen, no more 50K+ in weekends after all new "mini" updates all time become more boring game... Spoken like a true PVP veteran. Oh wait. King Fu Hostile wrote: It's not about the ISK, clone costs are trivial and literally nobody cares about them. However, the fear of losing skillpoints was not trivial, it was a horrible consequence for your own mistake. Now there's no fear anymore, you can lose your pod million times and it never means anything. So you're saying that your fear is what is powering your epic killboard stats? King Fu Hostile wrote: I chose EVE because it had harsh consequences for mistakes, the possibility to lose skill points being the most important of these. Yes, losing a level V skill is indeed a negative experience (I've trained Astrometric Rangefinding V twice, herp derp), but the existence of such brutalities create the necessary contrast to positive experiences. Without butthurt, there can be no joy either. This is the yin and yang of everything, and games aren't exceptions. This is an ironic post coming from a posting alt
Mikkymisodonlow School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:25:01 - [125] - Quote So this is certainly starting to sound like EVE is going in the direction of Call of duty. Die, respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn..... with no consequences or cost or even the remote ability to use that thing rattling around inside your skull to prevent you from making a regrettable mistake. but isnt that what makes this game fun? So as someone said, EVE is becoming less of a hardcore game and turning into WoW, even the blind can see that. CCP messes this up anymore than they have, Ill be unsubbing my 5 accounts. And yes, you can all have my stuffs :)
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1190	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:28:34 - [126] - Quote Mikkymisodonlow wrote: So this is certainly starting to sound like EVE is going in the direction of Call of duty. Die, respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn..... with no consequences or cost or even the remote ability to use that thing rattling around inside your skull to prevent you from making a regrettable mistake. but isnt that what makes this game fun? So as someone said, EVE is becoming less of a hardcore game and turning into WoW, even the blind can see that. CCP messes this up anymore than they have, Ill be unsubbing my 5 accounts. And yes, you can all have my stuffs :) I, too, consider rote busywork the hallmark of a "hardcore game." This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Lateris 49	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:33:12 - [127] - Quote If CCP is going to give us new clothes then at least gives us the corp offices sometime downnnnn the road. Otherwise this is a great expansion\update :) Ty for the Drones update for the UI. 0/
Anonymous Forumposter State War Academy Caldari State 173	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:36:11 - [128] - Quote Mikkymisodonlow wrote: CCP messes this up anymore than they have, Ill be unsubbing my 5 accounts. And yes, you can all have my stuffs :) Bye :) and THANKS!
Sizeof Void Ninja Suicide Squadron 525	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:39:09 - [129] - Quote I agree completely with the reasons for making this change. Good job, CCP. CCP Terminus wrote: Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote: Will you refund the isk for the clones we are sitting in now? There will be no refunds relating to the removal of the upgrade mechanic. It is both impractical (determining when a person last bought their clone and for what price seeing as factional warfare and previous balancing has changed prices) and undesirable from our view to do so. You could simply reimburse the current clones at the current prices. This would be trivial - just a couple of lines of SQL. At least, everyone would get something back - and something is better than nothing. It would also cut down on the inevitable whining and it is not exploitable, since it is a one-time reimbursement.
Distant Soul Brace for contact 0	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:43:58 - [130] - Quote CCP definitely turning this into a **** game. good job.

epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1421	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:45:21 - [131] - Quote Querns wrote: Mikkymisodonlow wrote: So this is certainly starting to sound like EVE is going in the direction of Call of duty. Die, respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn..... with no consequences or cost or even the remote ability to use that thing rattling around inside your skull to prevent you from making a regrettable mistake. but isnt that what makes this game fun? So as someone said, EVE is becoming less of a hardcore game and turning into WoW, even the blind can see that. CCP messes this up anymore than they have, Ill be unsubbing my 5 accounts. And yes, you can all have my stuffs :) I, too, consider rote busywork the hallmark of a "hardcore game." Hardwire implants are a phenomenally useful tool, learning implants, not so much. They really need to be seperated. Suggestion, 1. learning implants are purchased through the life of a character, and become a permanent part of their clone contract. Just like the golden Pod. Upgrading a learning implant destroys the original implant. 2. Hardwirings however including the additional functionality of genolutions, slaves etc (seperate them from the learning functions in new slots), are occasionally dropped on death, for players to loot according to the loot fairy and are not replaced during rebirth and need replacing if required. 3. Seperate clone jumping from Implant switching. Clone jumping transfers the current implant fit. 4. Allow the SWAPPING of implants, any item in slot 6 for example needs to be replaced by another slot 6 implant. naturally people will purchase and have stocks of implants,for different roles at various locations where their clones reside. 5. Allow implant fittings to be saved, just the same as ship fittings for fast re-equipping. That is all. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:49:06 - [132] - Quote Tip: Do not be dumb and post complaints about this change on your limited/zero pvp posting alts. Where is the HTFU crowd when you need them?
Anonymous Forumposter State War Academy Caldari State 173	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:56:32 - [133] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Tip: Do not be dumb and post complaints about this change on your limited/zero pvp posting alts. Where is the HTFU crowd when you need them? They are doing things that are more interesting than supporting your elitist my way or the highway propaganda.
Udonor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 65	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:06:03 - [134] - Quote OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty? How about random location if using NPC service? Rationale: NPC corp is resurrecting clones on first space available basis. (Could optionally throw in some communication network saturation effects too based on demand vs sovereignty/security=level of development - if you want to make the story more complex.) That would certainly be inconvenient and possibly challenging. Adds realism by increasing time for most players to reenter an ongoing battle...unless Corp cloning facility is in area and thus at risk. Plus its an opportunity to get slugabeds to see new parts of EVE and interact with new player toons. Alliances or friendships might span much of EVE to some degree to facilitate returning pilots...and even lead to trade etc crossing out of isolated sovereignty or hi sec areas. Home base fee would then select an NPC corp and maybe slightly increase odds of appearing at particular station that NPC corp owns. Fees MIGHT vary similar to Corp Office fees (overall NPC corp demand, number of NPC corp stations and desirability rank of prefered station EVEwide). Basically corps would be rewarded for investing in corp cloning facilities and placing them in risky strategic positions. But there probably should be conditions when corp systems are overloaded (blob battle) and cloning rolls over into NPC stations...or players AI final will and testament (implemented as player client popup) opts to wait until corp facility can handle their resurrection (can play another toon until popup says clone is available). Hmmm...I can see corp execs wanting at least 2-3 level priority setting for who gets resurrected first during big battle if corp clone facilities are inadequate. And I realize that this would make it more feasible to push null sec owners out of their systems if you could inflict enough poddings and kill their clone facilities. Gee that sounds like strategy beyond the bet phone call and biggest wallet and shipyards in null!!! With changes to # of jumps per time there would almost be a call for intelligence officers to track key enemy ship positions - since everyone in EVE could not necessarily arrive at big blob battle and keep returning until they ran out of fitted ships.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1191	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:09:29 - [135] - Quote Udonor wrote: OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty? Loss of implants and removal from the area of space you were in isn't good enough? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:11:30 - [136] - Quote I would argue that having to reship and rejoin your fleet in 10% TiDi is a big enough penalty.
Ian Morbius 158	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:12:00 - [137] - Quote Soon coming to in game chat. "In my days, we use to pay isk for clone upgrades, and let me tell you pod about death isk costs...." To avoid this, can't we just keep the upgrade costs. I keed. Death Valley & Mojave real world hardcore. www.acronymfinder.com
Udonor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 65	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:18:18 - [138] - Quote Querns wrote: Udonor wrote: OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty? Loss of implants and removal from the area of space you were in isn't good enough? Implants in battle -- maybe none. Removal from area? LOL Right now & as proposed to continue -- Only if there isn't an NPC medical clone station nearby to which to set yourself and store your extra ships. Such player basing is super common if you have extra ships and time or some player toon to haul the extras. * In fact I assume null alliances will have noncombat players use new Bowhead to constantly haul non-capital replacement ships to staging area near blob battles (but still behind their defense lines such as they are). ** In fact Bowhead will make moveable player station bases even more common in hi sec. For missioners, miners or anyone else who might lose ship but wanting to stay working systems near station with medical clones.
King Fu Hostile Imperial Collective Unsettled. 296	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:20:38 - [139] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: King Fu Hostile wrote: It's not about the ISK, clone costs are trivial and literally nobody cares about them. However, the fear of losing skillpoints was not trivial, it was a horrible consequence for your own mistake. Now there's no fear anymore, you can lose your pod million times and it never means anything. So you're saying that your fear is what is powering your epic killboard stats? King Fu Hostile wrote: I chose EVE because it had harsh consequences for mistakes, the possibility to lose skill points being the most important of these. Yes, losing a level V skill is indeed a negative experience (I've trained Astrometric Rangefinding V twice, herp derp), but the existence of such brutalities create the necessary contrast to positive experiences. Without butthurt, there can be no joy either. This is the yin and yang of everything, and games aren't exceptions. This is an ironic post coming from a posting alt Shut your mouth if this is your main :DDD br, Roime https://zkillboard.com/character/1456935381/
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:26:44 - [140] - Quote Udonor wrote: * In fact I assume null alliances will have noncombat players use new Bowhead to constantly haul non-capital replacement ships to staging area near blob battles (but still behind their defense lines such as they are). ** Spoken like someone who truly has no clue about nullsec and is effectively suggesting we'd freighter ships to the front line

SFM Hobb3s Wrecking Shots Black Legion. 237	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:40:08 - [141] - Quote How about this: remove the clone mechanics, but, to make death actually MEANINGFUL, when you get podded, you are back in hisec. This idea will be loved by all the lowsec pirates...all that traffic they'd be getting...
Proddy Scun Renfield Inc 63	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:46:04 - [142] - Quote Udonor wrote: OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty? Maybe it time to eliminate the use of pods. If pods exist only so you can BM your wreck and save your implants, I am sort of torn. On one hand its nice to save implant ISK. But on the other it seems CCP could say that increasing Sansha compromise of the cloning system means implants have just become another subsystem in the ship fit. If we keep free pods & clones How about automating a true ejection system? to include dropping a BM and taking off toward the next waypoint or a user selected BM? BM could be set in same system or any other in EVE without messing with route. Route doesn't make sense in wh anyways.
Plofkip Arji Real Life Outpost 0	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:46:36 - [143] - Quote As a new player I like the thrill of losing skill points. It's actually one of the most interesting and discussed features whenever I talk to somebody curious about EVE. While I understand the points made in the post, I can not deny disappointment in the complete removal of death penalties ( beside losing your ship that is ), getting podded for a veteran means basically nothing, since they are capable to jump back in a brand new T2 ship as soon as they are cloned, and trying to escape in your pod is a lot less tense now. What I would personally like to see is a temporary post death penalty, which increments based on how long you have been alive. I like the idea of a beaten up player waiting to be able to pilot his T2 again and get revenge, or a group of pirates trying to corner a penalized player even more ( I know that sounds negative, but ganking in World of Warcraft was actually what sparkled most of the player interaction, and yes I mentioned WOW on EVE forums ). That said I am sure you will come up with something interesting, but I wish you would have pushed a more flashed out death mechanic for this patch. P.S. Would it be possible to see the numbers that have brought to this design decision? Stuff like how many people get podded for example?
Beledia Ilphukiir Proffessional Experts Group 46	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:48:02 - [144] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Hardwire implants are a phenomenally useful tool, they provide a real benefit in combat and at a risk and price to discourage casual, illconsidered use, true risk and reward, though that phrase gets used to justify so many bad suggestions. learning implants, not so much. Crippling your learning to engage in PVP simply encourages risk evasion, the very behaviour that they should be preventing. They really need to be seperated. Suggestion, 1. learning implants are purchased through the life of a character, and become a permanent part of their clone contract. Just like the golden Pod. To encourage the decision to upgrade to have a real magnitude, Upgrading to a new, better, learning implant destroys the original implant. A tiered system with increased bonuses on all levels and no negatives is not a real decision. It's a no brainer and pointless no-choice. If you're going to go down that route, you might as well just give everyone +5 to all attrributes and delete all attribute bonuses from the game. That way you get the same end result, but new players don't have to waste time doing the learning implant grind before starting to play the game properly. epicurus ataraxia wrote: 2. Hardwirings however including the additional functionality of genolutions, slaves etc (seperate their functionality from the learning functions in new slots), are occasionally dropped on death, for players to loot according to the loot fairy and are not replaced during rebirth and need replacing if required. Buying a slave set will now only equip slot 15-21 for example, the learning element is removed. No intact implants should ever drop. At the minimum there needs to be a miniprofession for corpse harvesting in the hopes of recovering those implants or recovering implant components, that can be manufactured into implants. Maybe even to totally new ones, that can only be gained this way. epicurus ataraxia wrote: 3. Seperate clone jumping from Implant switching. Clone jumping transfers the current hardwire implant fit. The clone always retains the learning implants purchased. 4. Allow the SWAPPING of implants, any item in slot 6 for example needs to be replaced by another slot 6 implant. naturally people will purchase and have multiple stocks of implants,for different roles at various locations where their clones reside. Wouldn't this just encourage the use of cheap ass implant sets to in practice allow implant removal? Implant set swithing is definitely a nice idea, but I think there has to be a better way to do it. Sort of making your clones act like ships in this sense. You can have multiple sets of them in station and quickly switch to the one you need at the moment. Basically separate clone jumping(teleport with a long timer) from clone switching(local with a session change timer). epicurus ataraxia wrote: 5. Allow implant fitting plans to be saved, just the same as ship fittings for fast re-equipping. That is all.
Sizeof Void Ninja Suicide Squadron 525	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:51:54 - [145] - Quote Udonor wrote: Querns wrote: Udonor wrote: OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty? Loss of implants and removal from the area of space you were in isn't good enough? Implants in battle -- maybe none. Not very likely. I suspect that most of the players here will say that if you are not using some set of implants in battle, then you are doing it wrong.
Proddy Scun Renfield Inc 63	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:52:35 - [146] - Quote Plofkip Arji wrote: As a new player I like the thrill of losing skill points. It's actually one of the most interesting and discussed features whenever I talk to somebody curious about EVE. While I understand the points made in the post, I can not deny disappointment in the complete removal of death penalties ( beside losing your ship that is ), getting podded for a veteran means basically nothing, since they are capable to jump back in a brand new T2 ship as soon as they are cloned, and trying to escape in your pod is a lot less tense now. What I would personally like to see is a temporary post death penalty, which increments based on how long you have been alive. I like the idea of a beaten up player waiting to be able to pilot his T2 again and get revenge, or a group of pirates trying to corner a penalized player even more ( I know that sounds negative, but ganking in World of Warcraft was actually what sparkled most of the player interaction, and yes I mentioned WOW on EVE forums ). That said I am sure you will come up with something interesting, but I wish you would have pushed a more flashed out death mechanic for this patch. P.S. Would it be possible to see the numbers that have brought to this design decision? Stuff like how many people get podded for example? Still got implants loss if any are equipped. While its true veterans often move to a jump clone equipped with less expensive combat/fitting skill oriented implants -- its still a loss they can avoid. Some of those sets are pretty expensive in absolute terms, if probably not compared to their wallet.
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:03:35 - [147] - Quote Counterpoint: keep pod deaths (other than implants) worthless so people won't target pods in fleet fights and make pilots wait for 20 minutes in 10% tidi for their self destruct timer to finish.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1191	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:06:46 - [148] - Quote Don't forget GÇö-áit's part of the lore of Eve that capsuleers have a cavalier attitude towards death, and that their deaths are fairly meaningless. Conflating skill loss to be some sort of penalty for death is just not that apt of a comparison, given how trivial it is to avoid it. This triviality still makes it eligible for removal, bear in mind. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Proddy Scun Renfield Inc 63	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:07:53 - [149] - Quote Sizeof Void wrote: Udonor wrote: Querns wrote: Udonor wrote: OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty? Loss of implants and removal from the area of space you were in isn't good enough? Implants in battle -- maybe none. Not very likely. I suspect that most of the players here will say that if you are not using some set of implants in battle, then you are doing it wrong. Yes a well-chosen set of cheaper implants for combat is wise for most toons. Implant value is often a lot less than during "safe" training times. Combat skill implants are cheap at the low end and not very cost effective or significant at the upper end. Same for fitting implants except what you are required to have is driven by your fit and/or lack of skills. Capital pilots are a frequent exception to the absolute cost of implants in combat of course. But overall I suspect that when expecting combat only the filthy rich players equip implants worth more than their ship. That probably applies to most capital pilots too. Bottom-line: lots of players may run around in "safe" space with a full set of +5 attribute implants or insane mining boost implants. But in potential combat situations very few veterans have that level of ISK in their head-pod. Veterans are usually pretty good at judging when those rules apply. If they fly around with huge sums in their head under all conditions then they are probably insanely rich or on PLEX to ISK as needed and those folk do not care about th implant loss issue.
EvilweaselFinance BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 380	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:10:33 - [150] - Quote Proddy Scun wrote: Udonor wrote: OK I missed it. What is the NEW death penalty? Maybe it time to eliminate the use of pods. If pods exist only so you can BM your wreck and save your implants, I am sort of torn. On one hand its nice to save implant ISK. But on the other it seems CCP could say that increasing Sansha compromise of the cloning system means implants have just become another subsystem in the ship fit. If we keep free pods & clones How about automating a true ejection system? to include dropping a BM and taking off toward the next waypoint or a user selected BM? BM could be set in same system or any other in EVE without messing with route. Route doesn't make sense in wh anyways. the biggest difference between lowsec and nullsec is in lowsec you won't get podded if you're competent and in nullsec you are toast because you're bubbled

Bienator II madmen of the skies 2990	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:48:23 - [151] - Quote i always felt it would be a good idea to put the pod in focus when you redesign clones. - fittable like a ship where the only allowed modules would be implants interfacing between you and the pod (reuses fitting screen) - drugs would work like temporary modules and would be also displayed in their slots. - clonejumps between pods in stations should not cause a huge cooldown, instead, the cooldown should be jump distance dependent. - jumpclones would be pods and would display in your assets list as if it would be a ship once you have a cool ingame representation of the pod you can improve on it with custom pods etc etc. "Golden pod" would be an actual pod type, not a strange implant. a pod would come with a clone of course. Its just about how you represent it in the game. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:50:49 - [152] - Quote Bienator II wrote: - clonejumps between pods in stations should not cause a huge cooldown, instead, the cooldown should be jump distance dependent. Clonejump Fatigue
Bienator II madmen of the skies 2990	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:56:20 - [153] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Bienator II wrote: - clonejumps between pods in stations should not cause a huge cooldown, instead, the cooldown should be jump distance dependent. Clonejump Fatigue not needed. we already have 24h cooldown. all i am saying is that you get less cooldown when the distance is shorter eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
Sabriz Adoudel Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 3877	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:05:28 - [154] - Quote I feel people are making a mountain over a molehill here. If you need a 30 million ISK clone, you are a high skillpoint player. Probably 30 million is utter chump change to you, but let's say it isn't - let's say you are legitimately broke and down to your last three billion because you just got scammed hard or something like that. 30 million isn't trivial if your assets are only 3b. Even then, the cost of going on a frigate roam isn't just the 3 million frig plus the 30 million pod. It's the 100 million you'd have made if you spent the time you used roaming instead ishtar ratting, or scamming a trade/mission hub, or suicide ganking autopiloting Iterons in highsec, or trading, or hell even running highsec missions. (I'll assume, because you are broke, that you aren't doing these activities in a very efficient manner). That 2 hour roam goes from a 33 million cost and 100m opportunity cost down to a 3m cost and 100m opportunity cost. So my two cents is - who really cares? If a tax on high skillpoint characters is desired (and IMO it is), reducing all insurance payouts by an amount of ISK equal to your skillpoint total would achieve the goal much better than the clone costs do. Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 & Vote #2 Tora Bushido
Commissar Kate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 99172	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:34:51 - [155] - Quote Bienator II wrote: i always felt it would be a good idea to put the pod in focus when you redesign clones. - fittable like a ship where the only allowed modules would be implants interfacing between you and the pod (reuses fitting screen) - drugs would work like temporary modules and would be also displayed in their slots. - clonejumps between pods in stations should not cause a huge cooldown, instead, the cooldown should be jump distance dependent. - jumpclones would be pods and would display in your assets list as if it would be a ship once you have a cool ingame representation of the pod you can improve on it with custom pods etc etc. "Golden pod" would be an actual pod type, not a strange implant. a pod would come with a clone of course. Its just about how you represent it in the game. I have a strong feeling that this is sort of the route that CCP wants to take from everything they have said over the past few weeks about clones. We will probably have to fit our capsules with 'hardwires' instead of the actual clone here in the near future. Which would also allow rapid 'refitting' of implants depending whats needed for whatever ship you are flying and negating the need of jump clones for swapping out implants. I can't remember exactly where I saw or read it but I could have swore I saw a dev say something like this "Flying an empty clone might soon be like flying an unfitted ship." If that's true, fitting capsules seems like it could be very plausible. Unlock all the clothes \|\| My Fanclub Harmless - Penniless - Aimless
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 7201	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:40:40 - [156] - Quote 100,000 ISK is trivial "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Karl Hobb Imperial Margarine 2122	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:43:49 - [157] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: 100,000 ISK is trivial I crap 100,000 ISK A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Sizeof Void Ninja Suicide Squadron 525	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:58:31 - [158] - Quote Karl Hobb wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: 100,000 ISK is trivial I crap 100,000 ISK Perhaps this should be raised to 100M ISK?
Rick McCormick JOGONADAI inc. 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:04:18 - [159] - Quote Im actually writing this as a character whos going to be biomassed in couple of hours. For me paying the clone upgrade has never been issue when being podded, but it has been nasty 'must remember' issue. Today one alt got podded and lost 100M implants and 150M ship, thats part of the game and the risk. I really do welcome the removal of 'must remember'. Someone mentioned the reusability of implants and it got me thinking and I realized, I have never been much to Impants, other than +3 and +4 training 'boosters'... Personally I would get excited if impants could be plugged in and and removed. Thoughts: 1. If EVE engineers are so clever that they can clone ppl, they can not remove implants... 2. What kind of effect would it actually have on implant market (ccp could probably simulate it?) 3. Would it make a new exciting decision making process to prepare for battle, when deciding which implants to take to battle? 4. New profession: Implant hauler - head full of expensive implants delivered to remote location. 5. Collecting implants on your station, for different purpose, nice? 6. Would you buy more implants then? All this comes from solo-player, so I probably dont think it wide enough. Im actually in process of biomassing 2 characters (used for tradehubs). Closing 2 subscriptions and selling 5 characters. Leaving only my main and one trader. im most likely terminating 3 jump-clones from my main leaving only one with maxed training implants somewhere in hi-sec for holidays. All this to make the experience 'being there' stronger, I have missed that with all jump-clones and alts and their jump-clones. -Rick (r.i.p.)
Karl Hobb Imperial Margarine 2122	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:19:59 - [160] - Quote Sizeof Void wrote: Karl Hobb wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: 100,000 ISK is trivial I crap 100,000 ISK Perhaps this should be raised to 100M ISK? Skillpoints/10 ISK. A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Algathas Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad. 44	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:25:51 - [161] - Quote "Death Matters..." .. not anymore in EVE... I joined eve partly because it had things like XP loss and was greatly disappointed when I first found out about this update. Other games are boring because there is no risk, and EVE is heading that way. So now it would be more punishing to not pod someone so that they have to fly back to their home base. Except that now there is no loss from being podded so the person will just self-destruct. Welcome to less meaningful PVP with less choices. If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. At least then we can have a "choice" to either pod them to blow up implants or to not pod them and make them fly 20 jumps home. At least that is reasonable since we cant slow an enemy down isk wise anymore.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 26586	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:29:50 - [162] - Quote Karl Hobb wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: 100,000 ISK is trivial I crap 100,000 ISK how often can you crap. is there a way to make you crap faster? perhaps it's possible for you to crap several times at once? even if it's just you, if you can automate that and do it 23/7 it will add up. I'm thinking maybe we can work something out to both our benefit. lemme know. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Karl Hobb Imperial Margarine 2122	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:33:13 - [163] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Karl Hobb wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: 100,000 ISK is trivial I crap 100,000 ISK how often can you crap. is there a way to make you crap faster? perhaps it's possible for you to crap several times at once? even if it's just you, if you can automate that and do it 23/7 it will add up. I'm thinking maybe we can work something out to both our benefit. lemme know. I'm pretty regular, but I'd love your help working something out. A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
M1k3y Koontz Thorn Project Surely You're Joking 618	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:36:49 - [164] - Quote Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: This is a fantastic change. Has been suggested for years. The mechanic primarily harms newer players. There are no good arguments against it. Etc. etc.. bravo. I will tell you exactly what needs to be changed after this, though: Jump clones need to be significantly changed, so that jumping in the same system to switch implants is completely removed from jumping across the galaxy for fast travel. The whole "clones as specialized implant sets" system and "clone as fast travel" mechanic need to be completely separated. Along with that, you need to allow for multiple clones in a single station. THEN, you need to allow clones to be moved by players, so that if I want to deploy to an area I don't have to spend days jumping to each of my clones and moving them, instead I can put them all in a ship and take the huge risk to fly them to my destination. Those changes are at the top of my list for improvements to EVE by a wide margin. This. But also, dont stop with sov changes and POS changes, pleeeaaasssee with the POS changes! How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Peoke Interstellar Renegades Advent of Fate 2	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:46:54 - [165] - Quote now that there is no cost whats to stop entire alliances changing thier clone location and self destructing to travel across the galaxy. you can bypass jump fatigue by just setting clone locations. was this even discussed.
fukier Brave Collective 1172	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:47:43 - [166] - Quote My Idea for player made clones. So now that there is no longer a payment for loosing a clone based on Skill points there is a loss of isk sink. So i would propose that clones are made by players using PI materials. CLone vat bays would be upgraded to be usefull and there would be the reintroduction of the mothership which acts as a mobile base for wh space. now why should ther be variation in clones? well its simple its called faction implants and hardware and jump clone time. My idea is you add special clone bpc for faction loot that allows you to manufacture pirate faction clones that allow you to install pirate faction inplants. without one of these clones you cant install lets say snake or slave implants. I would then add some sort of isk sink in the manufacturing prosses for clones that replace the current metric of clone upgrades. also there could be a clone that allows you to jump clone ever 12 hours but cant have harware upgrades and only up to plus two implants for attribute points. i would totally like to get a shadow serpentis clone or a true sansha clone or angel. `At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.`
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2025	Posted - 2014.12.03 01:53:06 - [167] - Quote fukier wrote: My Idea for player made clones. So now that there is no longer a payment for loosing a clone based on Skill points there is a loss of isk sink. So i would propose that clones are made by players using PI materials. CLone vat bays would be upgraded to be usefull and there would be the reintroduction of the mothership which acts as a mobile base for wh space. now why should ther be variation in clones? well its simple its called faction implants and hardware and jump clone time. My idea is you add special clone bpc for faction loot that allows you to manufacture pirate faction clones that allow you to install pirate faction inplants. without one of these clones you cant install lets say snake or slave implants. I would then add some sort of isk sink in the manufacturing prosses for clones that replace the current metric of clone upgrades. also there could be a clone that allows you to jump clone ever 12 hours but cant have harware upgrades and only up to plus two implants for attribute points. i would totally like to get a shadow serpentis clone or a true sansha clone or angel. how about variation in clones too like low grade standard and high end that separates the variations even more. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jack Tronic borkedLabs 226	Posted - 2014.12.03 02:02:47 - [168] - Quote Algathas wrote: "Death Matters..." .. not anymore in EVE... I joined eve partly because it had things like XP loss and was greatly disappointed when I first found out about this update. Other games are boring because there is no risk, and EVE is heading that way. So now it would be more punishing to not pod someone so that they have to fly back to their home base. Except that now there is no loss from being podded so the person will just self-destruct. Welcome to less meaningful PVP with less choices. If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. At least then we can have a "choice" to either pod them to blow up implants or to not pod them and make them fly 20 jumps home. At least that is reasonable since we cant slow an enemy down isk wise anymore. Only 0.0001% of people lost XP in EVE. Those that did only because they slipped up, everyone else has the boring task of automating the clone grade in muscle memory. If its something everyone does by default, why bother? Nobody ever lacked the isk. Implant loss doesn't mean much either. Quote: If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. They already did, you can "suicide" inside stations instantly.
Natalia Srebnaja Ginnunga Industries Sanctuary Pact 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 02:11:45 - [169] - Quote Aliventi wrote: [b]First: Awesome. (...) GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system. What a wonderfully well put together post!
Algathas Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad. 44	Posted - 2014.12.03 02:11:58 - [170] - Quote Jack Tronic wrote: Algathas wrote: "Death Matters..." .. not anymore in EVE... I joined eve partly because it had things like XP loss and was greatly disappointed when I first found out about this update. Other games are boring because there is no risk, and EVE is heading that way. So now it would be more punishing to not pod someone so that they have to fly back to their home base. Except that now there is no loss from being podded so the person will just self-destruct. Welcome to less meaningful PVP with less choices. If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. At least then we can have a "choice" to either pod them to blow up implants or to not pod them and make them fly 20 jumps home. At least that is reasonable since we cant slow an enemy down isk wise anymore. Only 0.0001% of people lost XP in EVE. Those that did only because they slipped up, everyone else has the boring task of automating the clone grade in muscle memory. If its something everyone does by default, why bother? Nobody ever lacked the isk. Implant loss doesn't mean much either. Quote: If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. They already did, you can "suicide" inside stations instantly. I think you did not understand what I was saying at all. In null most pods have no implants. So in war it was a good idea to pod them to cause your enemy more loss and slow them down. Now, since you can self destruct in space and in station, and you have no loss from that, it is actually preferable when you lose your ship to also be podded, since it gets you home faster. If you don't get podded you can just self destruct in space, aka getting you home faster. The idea about not allowing self destruct of pods in space (and only allowing it in station) gives the choice to either pod the person (giving you a small chance of killing some implants but not likely) or making them fly their pod home, knowing they must fly home because they cant self destruct. Otherwise, the choice to pod or not pod is meaningless since they will just self destruct in space anyway.

Distant Soul Brace for contact 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 02:29:07 - [171] - Quote Natalia Srebnaja wrote: Aliventi wrote: [b]First: Awesome. (...) GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system. What a wonderfully well put together post! this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. must be a butthurt WoW player who doesnt like the current system.
Warde Guildencrantz TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory. 1144	Posted - 2014.12.03 02:29:49 - [172] - Quote Natalia Srebnaja wrote: Aliventi wrote: [b]First: Awesome. (...) GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system. What a wonderfully well put together post! I see it this way, instead of attribute enhancers, the first 5 slots should be exclusively for implants that promote a style of play (Like snakes, slaves, etc. for tacklers, armor brawlers and solo shield pvpers respectively) The other 5 should be for boosting of random skill attributes as they are now. However, there should be an 11th slot just for pirate omegas. It's fairly annoying that certain slot 6 implants cant be combined with a full set of pirate implants. (For example, you can get the 8% armor implant in your head at the same time as a full set of slaves, but not shaqil's speed enhancer (8% velocity) at the same time as snake implants. I find that a little bit of an annoyance.) TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us My ship fits
Winter Archipelago Thera Industries 302	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:33:33 - [173] - Quote Peoke wrote: now that there is no cost whats to stop entire alliances changing thier clone location and self destructing to travel across the galaxy. you can bypass jump fatigue by just setting clone locations. was this even discussed. You can only change you clone location remotely once per year. You can change it whenever you please, so long as you're actually in the station you want to be in. You have to fly there, first, though. Join the channel *Thera Industries* in-game for a general public channel for Thera-based industrialists.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1193	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:36:44 - [174] - Quote Peoke wrote: now that there is no cost whats to stop entire alliances changing thier clone location and self destructing to travel across the galaxy. you can bypass jump fatigue by just setting clone locations. was this even discussed. They changed it in Phoebe so that you can no longer set your clone station remotely to any station. You can set it to your corporation's HQ once a year, or to the station you're currently in at any time. Podjumping is, essentially, neutered. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Aramis Rosicrux Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris 21	Posted - 2014.12.03 03:58:40 - [175] - Quote I like this change. The pilots whining about the loss of their SP, they need to adjust their attitude. In the real world, I spent seven years getting certified in a technology called "DEC-VAX". Then, the company got lost in a buyout by a conglomerate, and now all my real life skills are lost. I HAD to re-educate. Fortunately, I got into automation engineering, so I found an alternative, but it did hurt my real world earnings. So having to scramble to gain skills in a game? *No problem.* Aramis Rosicrux Sinq Laison Bitter Vet ================================================================================ -á Whats with all the freaking NERFS?-á Everytime I get a skill trained you ruin it.-á Quit breaking our game!
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7183	Posted - 2014.12.03 08:22:59 - [176] - Quote Algathas wrote: If this change goes through, please remove self destructing of pods outside of station. At least then we can have a "choice" to either pod them to blow up implants or to not pod them and make them fly 20 jumps home. At least that is reasonable since we cant slow an enemy down isk wise anymore. Can't do, because of wormholes. Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7183	Posted - 2014.12.03 08:29:05 - [177] - Quote Winter Archipelago wrote: Peoke wrote: now that there is no cost whats to stop entire alliances changing thier clone location and self destructing to travel across the galaxy. you can bypass jump fatigue by just setting clone locations. was this even discussed. You can only change you clone location remotely once per year. You can change it whenever you please, so long as you're actually in the station you want to be in. You have to fly there, first, though. Why even change the location remotely? New guys wanting to get to null sec should be fair play jumping everywhere and tasting EVE how it truly tastes just from the begining. A lot of things to learn: earlier = better. Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
Brian Harrelstein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 10	Posted - 2014.12.03 09:41:34 - [178] - Quote I get the feeling that CCP wants to remove everything from the game. First they start gutting modules, then they gutted the jump drive, and now clones... BTW: thanks for turning all my meta 4 small missile launchers into "compact launchers". Now they're not worth anything. Good to know I'm not getting reimbursed for those either... So what's next? Insurance? We all know nobody uses that either.
Alris Soben Konzil der Drei Evictus. 1	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:11:36 - [179] - Quote I'm looking at their implementation of the Jump fatique and imagine (in horror) how they are already crafting a new icon for the death fatigue timer. The Mouseovermessage shows: "Constantly dying strains your mind. You wake up in your new clone with a massive headache. Going back into your pod and undock is the last thing you want to do at the moment." 5 Hour cooldown before you can undock again. Have Fun. We definitely need more timers
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 802	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:16:39 - [180] - Quote I look forward to seeing how the clone changes transpire but would be against being able to harvest implants. Having created implants from BPCs I can say that they use a fair chunk of PI materials in their production. Also many implants are dropped as loot from missions/deadspace etc rats. Allowing implants to be recovered would hit both of these areas, the loot values especially. It would also make nil sense in lore terms. The implant is stuck into your brain. To be able to function it would have to use some kind of custom interface/nanotech that 'grows' into your brain and is absolutely unique to you. On top of that your brain is flash-fried by a very powerful laser when you get podded which would cause immeasurable damage to delicate nanostructures. If this were to become a thing it would be better to allow players to use Reverse Engineering on corpses to basically disect the skull and implants to drop out a BPC for the implant (probably a lower grade one than the original due to damage). Also change loot drops to be BPC's mainly with actual implants being rare or not at all (Other than maybe from high level rats). This would then create a market in BPC sales and also add impetus to the PI market and also increase options for science characters.

Tyby Little Willies Out of Sight. 4	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:29:26 - [181] - Quote good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?!
Arcos Vandymion White Beast Inc. 91	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:35:08 - [182] - Quote Quote: The cost of setting your home station will be increased from 5400 ISK to 100,000 ISK. This keeps the cost of moving your home station low without making it completely trivial. Haven't laughed that hard in an entire week.
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 457	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:16:27 - [183] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities? As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP. For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons. Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations. Ive still seen no adequate response to this concern ^ Only the goon economic warfare blah blah team seem to be responding trying to underplay what is going to be a massive strategic change, which means that this will probably benefit goons; I'm betting they will send one of their acolytes to respond to this now trying to underplay it again. Is there any chance of a response from CCP on what their plans out though for medical bays though? I really would like to know whether they are going to be relevant and worth fighting over still, as of right now they are worth practically nothing.
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 457	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:21:03 - [184] - Quote Distant Soul wrote: Natalia Srebnaja wrote: Aliventi wrote: [b]First: Awesome. (...) GET RID OF ATTRIBUTES. Attributes, attribute implants, and remaps do far more harm than good. A simple everyone trains at 2700 sp/hour is a far better system. What a wonderfully well put together post! this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. must be a butthurt WoW player who doesnt like the current system. And the goon propoganda merchants which are rife in this thread apparently support this also along with removing standing penalties for missioning with opposing factions. Apparently goons are now pansy's that need to be hand held so that these "vicious and random" mechanics do not hurt them. If something smells fishy then you know there is an ulterior motive, as the goon merchants are clearly showing in this thread; this change to medical facilities must be benefiting them in some way. And I can predict that next they are going to tell us that they are simply trying to improve the game and help subs.
Antihrist Pripravnik T-AFK and counting 825	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:43:16 - [185] - Quote Fun times in cheap ships ahead I know it will breathe a bit of life in my game. I may even close this corp and start actively playing again Thanks, CCP o.0
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1194	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:11:22 - [186] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities? As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP. For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons. Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations. Ive still seen no adequate response to this concern ^ Only the goon economic warfare blah blah team seem to be responding trying to underplay what is going to be a massive strategic change, which means that this will probably benefit goons; I'm betting they will send one of their acolytes to respond to this now trying to underplay it again. Is there any chance of a response from CCP on what their plans out though for medical bays though? I really would like to know whether they are going to be relevant and worth fighting over still, as of right now they are worth practically nothing. Well, I was content to leave organizational affiliations out of this discussion, but since you seem so eager to drag it in, let ol' Uncle Querns schoolfeed you a bit. The thing about this line of thinking is that it really doesn't affect us, in particular. Goonswarm Federation, and the CFC in general, tend to operate exclusively out of conquerable stations and outposts. The thing about these stations is that every single one has medical facilities. Scarcity of cloning is only a concern for those who don't own any sov. Knowing this, you can extrapolate the change to say that the removal of clone grades and the subsequent removal of the possibility of SP loss only harms us, in the long run, by removing a potential discouragement from the game. However, the fact of the matter is, it's like you said GÇö this change is an unabashed positive for the whole of the game, including those we would rather not be. No amount of prefacing the rest of the conversation with a warning about these sorts of statements takes that away. We're allowed to point out when changes just make things objectively better without it constituting a mote of propaganda, slithering demurely from our inexorable spin-holes. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 222	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:22:43 - [187] - Quote The dev blog was pretty interesting even though I oppose this type of change as a whole. I stinks of EA and the long term goal of making Eve more scalable to EA. It's part of a wider slippery slope though. Give it another 5 years and we'll all be playing wow in space assuming we all stick around. Anyhow the one positive thing to come of this is the subtle hint that we'll be able to harvest implants from floating corpses at some point in the future. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve... Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace Unsettled. 170	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:44:01 - [188] - Quote Tyby wrote: good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! What gift? What benefit?
Gwenvahar The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:46:46 - [189] - Quote As a fundamental mechanic for what motivated players to play better, I dont see this as a great change. No death penalty takes a great deal of sting out of EvE. In every MMO I ever 'loved' it was the little irritations which define the character of the game. Tinker with them at your peril DEVs. As an after thought I see Pay to Win, direct skill point injections on the horizon in the micro transaction cash shop. Not to mention why even have 'pods' anymore.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1194	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:50:42 - [190] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Tyby wrote: good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! What gift? What benefit? It's the gift of freedom from rote busywork. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 457	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:54:46 - [191] - Quote Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: I am not sure if CCP have considered this, but how will this effect the current importance of medical facilities? As of now, medical facilities are of vital strategic importance, as if your reanimate in a station without medical facilities, then you cannot upgrade your clone and basically cannot pvp unless you risk losing SP. For this reason most people try and base their corporation at a location with a medical facility, and there is real meaning to death as if you are defending an area with no medical facility then when you are podded you end up out the fight. Many corporations have based themselves around stations with vital medical facilities for these reasons. Are there any plans now to keep the importance of medical facilities? As of now they have no purpose with this change, and a massive blow has been struck to the strategic planning of many corporations. Ive still seen no adequate response to this concern ^ Only the goon economic warfare blah blah team seem to be responding trying to underplay what is going to be a massive strategic change, which means that this will probably benefit goons; I'm betting they will send one of their acolytes to respond to this now trying to underplay it again. Is there any chance of a response from CCP on what their plans out though for medical bays though? I really would like to know whether they are going to be relevant and worth fighting over still, as of right now they are worth practically nothing. Well, I was content to leave organizational affiliations out of this discussion, but since you seem so eager to drag it in, let ol' Uncle Querns schoolfeed you a bit. The thing about this line of thinking is that it really doesn't affect us, in particular. Goonswarm Federation, and the CFC in general, tend to operate exclusively out of conquerable stations and outposts. The thing about these stations is that every single one has medical facilities. Scarcity of cloning is only a concern for those who don't own any sov. Knowing this, you can extrapolate the change to say that the removal of clone grades and the subsequent removal of the possibility of SP loss only harms us, in the long run, by removing a potential discouragement from the game. However, the fact of the matter is, it's like you said GÇö this change is an unabashed positive for the whole of the game, including those we would rather not be. No amount of prefacing the rest of the conversation with a warning about these sorts of statements takes that away. We're allowed to point out when changes just make things objectively better without it constituting a mote of propaganda, slithering demurely from our inexorable spin-holes. This may not affect the goons then in terms of the medical facilities as you suggest, although it will have a massive impact on those of us living in NPC null sec and even low sec to some extent. It will plane the geography of regions such as stain and venal and many others. I do agree with you in terms of the current clone mechanic being terrible, although I think CCP have overlooked the medical facility aspect, and so as you can see that this has massive consequences for those living in NPC regions. All I am suggesting is that medical clones can "only" be set at a station with a medical facility, instead of the current arrangement of being able to set it at a corporation office.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1194	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:57:35 - [192] - Quote It is sort of telling, seeing several people extoll this change as a net reduction in mastery associated with playing Eve. That having to remember to use a dialog after dying is seen as not only some sort of immense strategic decision, as well as a literal hallmark of differentiation between games in the same genre is fascinating. Like, really? Are we even playing the same videogame? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gwenvahar The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:04:37 - [193] - Quote CCP Terminus wrote: In regards to the comments on making clones player created, and looking at how attributes and implants work. We are definitely looking at those kinds of things and we'll see where they go. We will be looking at removing unnecessary complexity, while keeping or adding to the depth of the mechanics. Its complex and deep? Am I missing something?
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1194	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:04:51 - [194] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: All I am suggesting is that medical clones can "only" be set at a station with a medical facility, instead of the current arrangement of being able to set it at a corporation office. You are aware that pilots can only choose to sync their medical clone with the corporation's single designated system once per year, right? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2352	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:13:07 - [195] - Quote Gwenvahar wrote: As a fundamental mechanic for what motivated players to play better, I dont see this as a great change. No death penalty takes a great deal of sting out of EvE. In every MMO I ever 'loved' it was the little irritations which define the character of the game. Tinker with them at your peril DEVs. As an after thought I see Pay to Win, direct skill point injections on the horizon in the micro transaction cash shop. Not to mention why even have 'pods' anymore. There is still a penalty to death. You lose any implants you CHOSE to install. You get wiped off the field, possibly far away to the station you CHOSE to put your clone at. Yea there is a reason I'm highlighting choice. To steal a CCP quote from another thread, which personally I think sums up the whole clone cost issue best: CCP Darwin wrote: The fundamental issue is that clone grades don't add a choice. When you are pod killed, you aren't presented with an interesting question -- "Should I upgrade my pod? How much should I upgrade it?" Instead, you either upgrade, and protect your skill points against an inevitable further pod kill, or you don't, and suffer. One choice is so incredibly better than the other that you'll always pick it, unless you happen to forget. Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. It should be about presenting a meaningful choice to a player and letting them pick which way to go, with benefits to offset risk. Clone upgrade costs just don't do that -- they present a choice for which there's only one right answer.
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 457	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:14:13 - [196] - Quote Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: All I am suggesting is that medical clones can "only" be set at a station with a medical facility, instead of the current arrangement of being able to set it at a corporation office. You are aware that pilots can only choose to sync their medical clone with the corporation's single designated system once per year, right? Yes, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, that drawback is trivial as most people who reside in the area which I live in and many other areas of NPC null are permanent residents. They've probably had their clone set in its current location for the last 5 years or more. Also there is virtually no drawback to making it so medical clone can only be set at a station with medical facilities. I'm sure you could support this simple fix Querns; there are no drawback, and it would only be beneficial in allowing us to keep the landscape of eve a little bumpy.
Gwenvahar The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:14:52 - [197] - Quote Valterra Craven wrote: XR05 wrote: UFS Fenix wrote: What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "micro" updates... So apparently hitting a button to make sure your clone will retain all your SP is a challenge.... I don't think you guys understand what challenges are.... It's not the 'challenge' of clicking that matters but what it means to forget to click that matters. Because it's all supposed to matter and be connected to a bigger picture. If those extra three clicks make me feel like I did myself a favor in remembering to do it, that is part of the experience that is 'balanced' to me.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace Unsettled. 170	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:15:27 - [198] - Quote Querns wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Tyby wrote: good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! What gift? What benefit? It's the gift of freedom from rote busywork. lol, as if upgrading your clone would be "work"
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1197	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:20:27 - [199] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Querns wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Tyby wrote: good move CCP, can't wait top go back to flying dictors i can't really believe there is so much but hurt against this change; this is one of those rare changes that only bring benefits to every player no matter how old...and cheap clones will probly mean ppl will use the extra money for implants= better eve common,really, you guys will complain even when CCP is giving you a nice ******* gift?! What gift? What benefit? It's the gift of freedom from rote busywork. lol, as if upgrading your clone would be "work" Small amounts of work are still work. :shrug: This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Tavin Aikisen Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 333	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:24:08 - [200] - Quote GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote: [quote=CCP] inb4 clones are an item that can be built/grown and have to be constantly resupplied in nullsec stations for people to wake up in, else they wake up in the nearest npc station with clone facilities. Not sure if sarcasm? But I actually love that idea... High-sec clones should still have some cost. The previous mechanic was tricksy, but if they remove clone costs altogether, who is going to pay for them? "Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home." -Cold Wind

Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace Unsettled. 170	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:34:23 - [201] - Quote Querns wrote: Small amounts of work are still work. :shrug: There are so many more arduous and stupid tasks in this game that removing a few mouseclicks to upgrade your clone every now and then hardly justifies the removal. Removing it isn't a tangible benefit.
Radius Prime Tax Evading Ass. 187	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:42:48 - [202] - Quote No more reason to limit your SP total :). No more reason for highly focused PVP pilots. Prices on extreme SP PVP pilots will be on the rise ^^. Good decision there CCP. Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:56:53 - [203] - Quote So they removed the risk for vets.............removed the risk.......so now its only reward. Interesting.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1206	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:16:38 - [204] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Querns wrote: Small amounts of work are still work. :shrug: There are so many more arduous and stupid tasks in this game that removing a few mouseclicks to upgrade your clone every now and then hardly justifies the removal. Removing it isn't a tangible benefit. It's a benefit. Syn Shi wrote: So they removed the risk for vets.............removed the risk.......so now its only reward. Interesting. Ah, yes, the game where you should be punished the longer you play it. Also I think there are more full stops in this post than letters. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2352	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:17:35 - [205] - Quote Syn Shi wrote: So they removed the risk for vets.............removed the risk.......so now its only reward. Interesting. I think its more they removed the penalty for playing and training for a long time. I'm still not getting the sky is falling BS. I know I will still be spamming warp to save my pods.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1206	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:19:35 - [206] - Quote On a further philosophical note, it's amazing to see the sorts of stories people tell themselves about a sandbox game. That there would be more than zero people taking this change as a net negative is just fascinating. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Worrff Viziam Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:23:23 - [207] - Quote Draahk Chimera wrote: Well since the Devs commenting in this thread is only qouting and answering the positive feedback it is quite clear it is one of those things they will put in regardless of player input. Its all they ever do. Anything that does not fit in with their "plan" gets pretty much ignored.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1206	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:27:03 - [208] - Quote Worrff wrote: Draahk Chimera wrote: Well since the Devs commenting in this thread is only qouting and answering the positive feedback it is quite clear it is one of those things they will put in regardless of player input. Its all they ever do. Anything that does not fit in with their "plan" gets pretty much ignored. Have you tried being nicer? I've had a pretty good success rate WRT feedback being integrated, if it's actually good feedback, because I generally keep it positive. "Don't do it because I had to suffer through it, making it required that all others must in turn" is not good feedback. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Etara Silverblade Morex Group Inc. Haven. 35	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:30:19 - [209] - Quote Here's an idea that could go along with the clone grade removal, how about insuring implants? So that when we are podded, if we have them insured, we would wake up with them again. You could create implant insurance levels similar to clone grades so that the more expensive implants or better ones cost more, or pay per slot, or something like that. But it would be a good sink and since it's not a loss of time just isk not everyone would have to do it.
Friday Football The Ministry of Destruction Phoebe Freeport Republic 1	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:31:25 - [210] - Quote Weighing in on this as a NEW player (lots of vets speaking their minds), I am excited by the prospect of more PVP. That's what brought me into EVE in the first place. Also, to the vets complaining about no risk, I can tell you that losing my 12m ship + my 50m impants hurts as a new player. I know that's a drop in the bucket to the vets with billions, but it hurts me.

Jackson Apollo Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:41:01 - [211] - Quote Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: This is a fantastic change. Has been suggested for years. The mechanic primarily harms newer players. There are no good arguments against it. Etc. etc.. bravo. I will tell you exactly what needs to be changed after this, though: Jump clones need to be significantly changed, so that jumping in the same system to switch implants is completely removed from jumping across the galaxy for fast travel. The whole "clones as specialized implant sets" system and "clone as fast travel" mechanic need to be completely separated. Along with that, you need to allow for multiple clones in a single station. THEN, you need to allow clones to be moved by players, so that if I want to deploy to an area I don't have to spend days jumping to each of my clones and moving them, instead I can put them all in a ship and take the huge risk to fly them to my destination. Those changes are at the top of my list for improvements to EVE by a wide margin. the winner of the thread is you.
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 457	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:41:42 - [212] - Quote Friday Football wrote: Weighing in on this as a NEW player (lots of vets speaking their minds), I am excited by the prospect of more PVP. That's what brought me into EVE in the first place. I'm going to bet this won't make jot of difference to the amount of pvp. What your hearing is mainly propaganda with no evidence. I'd like to see after a couple of months if this had made any difference whatsover to the amount of pvp; I very much doubt it.
Dersen Lowery Drinking in Station 1306	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:55:48 - [213] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Friday Football wrote: Weighing in on this as a NEW player (lots of vets speaking their minds), I am excited by the prospect of more PVP. That's what brought me into EVE in the first place. I'm going to bet this won't make jot of difference to the amount of pvp. What your hearing is mainly propaganda with no evidence. I'd like to see after a couple of months if this had made any difference whatsover to the amount of pvp; I very much doubt it. If there's no effect at all, then the old system had no effect either. In that case, the systems are interchangeable in terms of their impact on the game; why not prefer the simpler of the two? Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7186	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:05:32 - [214] - Quote Gwenvahar wrote: Valterra Craven wrote: XR05 wrote: UFS Fenix wrote: What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Yep, 100% true, 6-10 mo. and it's be "woo-online" so kids from 5 and up can play, may be somebody want to destroy EVE, like baby steps with this "micro" updates... So apparently hitting a button to make sure your clone will retain all your SP is a challenge.... I don't think you guys understand what challenges are.... It's not the 'challenge' of clicking that matters but what it means to forget to click that matters. Because it's all supposed to matter and be connected to a bigger picture. If those extra three clicks make me feel like I did myself a favor in remembering to do it, that is part of the experience that is 'balanced' to me. I know what you mean, its about the feel of the game more than game mechanic. You can be sure about death in real life, and you had to be sure to upgrade your clone in game. No discussion. It makes something horibly unfair, because you can't choose, and that is what makes it "DEAL WITH IT" and "HTFU". It was making EVE for a long time and it worked! I dont know how this change and the next will change the feel of game, maybe it will be so miniscule, that people will forget about it in half a year. Maybe it will make bittervets even more bitter. We will know. Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
Beledia Ilphukiir Proffessional Experts Group 46	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:14:28 - [215] - Quote Etara Silverblade wrote: Here's an idea that could go along with the clone grade removal, how about insuring implants? So that when we are podded, if we have them insured, we would wake up with them again. You could create implant insurance levels similar to clone grades so that the more expensive implants or better ones cost more, or pay per slot, or something like that. But it would be a good sink and since it's not a loss of time just isk not everyone would have to do it. It would ruin the implant market, since the number of implant sales would likely plummet as a result.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7186	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:25:19 - [216] - Quote BTW I still don't know how it will make people feel about PvP in general, because you will still have ship and implants on stake, and most importantly, your e-peen. but maybe we will see something else. A new Era of Clowns (now in rookie ships) Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2352	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:43:40 - [217] - Quote Etara Silverblade wrote: Here's an idea that could go along with the clone grade removal, how about insuring implants? So that when we are podded, if we have them insured, we would wake up with them again. You could create implant insurance levels similar to clone grades so that the more expensive implants or better ones cost more, or pay per slot, or something like that. But it would be a good sink and since it's not a loss of time just isk not everyone would have to do it. No implants are fine as is. Implants are a perfect example of the EVE adage of risk/reward choices.
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 275	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:52:28 - [218] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Etara Silverblade wrote: Here's an idea that could go along with the clone grade removal, how about insuring implants? So that when we are podded, if we have them insured, we would wake up with them again. You could create implant insurance levels similar to clone grades so that the more expensive implants or better ones cost more, or pay per slot, or something like that. But it would be a good sink and since it's not a loss of time just isk not everyone would have to do it. No implants are fine as is. Implants are a perfect example of the EVE adage of risk/reward choices. I'd agree with you on the condition that two changes are made. First, allow multiple jump clones per station. Second, allow for switching between jump clones at the same station without a cooldown, or with the cooldown greatly reduced. Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2353	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:56:00 - [219] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Etara Silverblade wrote: Here's an idea that could go along with the clone grade removal, how about insuring implants? So that when we are podded, if we have them insured, we would wake up with them again. You could create implant insurance levels similar to clone grades so that the more expensive implants or better ones cost more, or pay per slot, or something like that. But it would be a good sink and since it's not a loss of time just isk not everyone would have to do it. No implants are fine as is. Implants are a perfect example of the EVE adage of risk/reward choices. I'd agree with you on the condition that two changes are made. First, allow multiple jump clones per station. Second, allow for switching between jump clones at the same station without a cooldown, or with the cooldown greatly reduced. Nope. What clone/implants I bring to a station is as important of a choice of what ships I choose to stock for battle. I cannot simply wish a different ship into existence if I forgot it, especially if the market has nothing local. Similar I have to make that choice when it comes to implants. I see no need to change this. (I have lived in WH space since 2009 so I have always had to balance my implant choices with my pilots. It isn't always easy or optimal, but that is EVE).
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 275	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:58:41 - [220] - Quote Uhhh, what are you talking about? You can put more than one ship in a station. All I'm saying is that you should be able to put more than one clone in a station. Nobody's talking about wishing things into existence. Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]

gascanu Bearing Srl. 198	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:04:10 - [221] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: All I am suggesting is that medical clones can "only" be set at a station with a medical facility, instead of the current arrangement of being able to set it at a corporation office. You are aware that pilots can only choose to sync their medical clone with the corporation's single designated system once per year, right? Yes, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, that drawback is trivial as most people who reside in the area which I live in and many other areas of NPC null are permanent residents. They've probably had their clone set in its current location for the last 5 years or more. Also there is virtually no drawback to making it so medical clone can only be set at a station with medical facilities. I'm sure you could support this simple fix Querns; there are no drawback, and it would only be beneficial in allowing us to keep the landscape of eve a little bumpy. and why should this be a bad move? sov space is getting reshaped, why npc 0.0/low sec should be excluded? yes, this will change political landscape, but why are you assuming this will be for the worst? atm, cloning facility are quite sparse in 0.0 npc(not sure about low sec), so controlling the cloning station/system gives you a measure of control over the nearby station systems that don't have one, so many of those are basically abandoned. since eve is going towards occupational sov, this change will be doing about the same thing in NPC 0.0/low sec. tldr: it's a bad change for you personally, but this does not mean it's a bad change for eve
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2353	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:14:11 - [222] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: Uhhh, what are you talking about? You can put more than one ship in a station. All I'm saying is that you should be able to put more than one clone in a station. Nobody's talking about wishing things into existence. Geez really? It's not that hard. Unlike ships, its not like you need that many clone options. Being able to say put all of your JC's in the same station and swap at will pretty much negates the point of the risk/reward choice.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1209	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:21:56 - [223] - Quote I've always been in favor of a jump-fatigue-like mechanic for jump clones (even before jump fatigue was conceived.) The way it works in my head is that using a jump clone to the same station is a very short cooldown (possibly even no cooldown,) and the further you travel, the longer the cooldown becomes, up to the current maximum. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Barrett Fruitcake State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:56:45 - [224] - Quote Brian Harrelstein wrote: I get the feeling that CCP wants to remove everything from the game. First they start gutting modules, then they gutted the jump drive, and now clones... BTW: thanks for turning all my meta 4 small missile launchers into "compact launchers". Now they're not worth anything. Good to know I'm not getting reimbursed for those either... So what's next? Insurance? We all know nobody uses that either. Wait for it. There's yet even another change inbound for meta things IIRC.... Btw, I'm all for getting rid of insurance.
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 278	Posted - 2014.12.03 18:12:45 - [225] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Primary This Rifter wrote: Uhhh, what are you talking about? You can put more than one ship in a station. All I'm saying is that you should be able to put more than one clone in a station. Nobody's talking about wishing things into existence. Geez really? It's not that hard. Unlike ships, its not like you need that many clone options. Being able to say put all of your JC's in the same station and swap at will pretty much negates the point of the risk/reward choice. No it doesn't. You still only get ten at the maximum, and when you get podded you still lose all of the implants that you had in that pod. This would just allow you to choose which implants to risk. Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.03 18:32:56 - [226] - Quote Medalyn Isis wrote: And the goon propoganda merchants which are rife in this thread apparently support this also along with removing standing penalties for missioning with opposing factions. Apparently goons are now pansy's that need to be hand held so that these "vicious and random" mechanics do not hurt them. If something smells fishy then you know there is an ulterior motive, as the goon merchants are clearly showing in this thread; this change to medical facilities must be benefiting them in some way. Confirming that we are in fact pansies and have outstretched hands to be held by CCP in order to keep our space, during this stressful time of a three front war. We're grasping at straws to keep our coalition alive, and it won't be long before we need to start re-evaluating our goals in Eve. This change doesn't necessarily help us more than any other pilot- it's just a tedious mechanic that is going away that really isn't necessary. Despite us giving CCP a hard time, we're simply trying to suggest improvements to the game and help keep eve alive by maintaining and increasing subscription numbers.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2353	Posted - 2014.12.03 18:39:43 - [227] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Primary This Rifter wrote: Uhhh, what are you talking about? You can put more than one ship in a station. All I'm saying is that you should be able to put more than one clone in a station. Nobody's talking about wishing things into existence. Geez really? It's not that hard. Unlike ships, its not like you need that many clone options. Being able to say put all of your JC's in the same station and swap at will pretty much negates the point of the risk/reward choice. No it doesn't. You still only get ten at the maximum, and when you get podded you still lose all of the implants that you had in that pod. This would just allow you to choose which implants to risk. Exactly, it is a CHOICE. That is why I personally don't have an issue with the way jump clones and implants work. Implants are a 100% voluntary choice. There is no implant which is REQUIRED to play EVE. I'd bet there are plenty of players in EVE who enjoy this game and almost never use any implants. So given that fact, I have no issue with players being able to make informed risk/reward choices about their clone's implants based on the games current mechanics.
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations 72	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:48:32 - [228] - Quote The perfidious plan to rationalize those changes with "veteran's needs" fails. If you are a veteran and have any problems with the current clone mechanics, you are not a veteran at all. CCP, add a grace period for noobs (3-6 months) and discard the changes of clone mechanics. THIS -> "There will no longer be any skillpoint loss upon death." lead to THIS -> Hello Kitty in space, or WoW 0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story-á
Aiko Intaki Lodizal Shield Tek Lodizal Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:51:20 - [229] - Quote Now please make Jump Clone cool downs inversely proportional to the distance jumped. Perhaps 'jumping' within the same station is an hour cooldown (capped, or further modified by skills) allowing someone to swap into a pvp or other specialized clone for a play session, then swap back into their skill training clone before logging for the night. Using JCs to insta-travel across the universe could then still be more taxing, with a cooldown similar to what we have today to preserve the importance of distance.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1211	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:56:28 - [230] - Quote Zhula Guixgrixks wrote: The perfidious plan to rationalize those changes with "veteran's needs" fails. If you are a veteran and have any problems with the current clone mechanics, you are not a veteran at all. CCP, add a grace period for noobs (3-6 months) and discard the changes of clone mechanics. THIS -> "There will no longer be any skillpoint loss upon death." lead to THIS -> Hello Kitty in space, or WoW Nice hyperbole. Having to remember to interact with a dialog every time you die neither garners nor expresses any sort of mastery. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 254	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:57:12 - [231] - Quote Zhula Guixgrixks wrote: THIS -> "There will no longer be any skillpoint loss upon death." lead to THIS -> Hello Kitty in space, or WoW Because clicking three buttons and spending a little ISK to prevent skillpoint loss IS LITERALLY THE REASON THAT THIS GAME IS SO HARDCORE
Beledia Ilphukiir Proffessional Experts Group 47	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:02:40 - [232] - Quote Zhula Guixgrixks wrote: The perfidious plan to rationalize those changes with "veteran's needs" fails. If you are a veteran and have any problems with the current clone mechanics, you are not a veteran at all. CCP, add a grace period for noobs (3-6 months) and discard the changes of clone mechanics. THIS -> "There will no longer be any skillpoint loss upon death." lead to THIS -> Hello Kitty in space, or WoW That rationalization is just an objective observation based on facts. The extent this change will alter player behavior is debatable. You're objection on the other hand is just nonsensical, your alternate solution doesn't address any of the raised problems with the current one and your prediction is plain hyperbolic. Feel free to continue to express yourself, but if your purpose is to give reasons for CCP to not go though with this change, you might have more success with rational, well thought out reasons instead. Just a suggestion though, so feel free to ignore it.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland The 99 Percent 902	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:11:31 - [233] - Quote As someone that has a fairly high amount of SP and has lost the maximum possible (1.4M SP) because, yes, I forgot to push buttan after death cloning myself around once, I support this change. Tbh, I didn't even know that I had lost any SP until 2 weeks and 2 large fleets later with line members intermittently complaining they weren't getting their fleet bonuses. It went something like this: Check skill sheet. "Where'd WC5 go? How can I possibly have FC4, and not WC5? OH SHITFUCKGODAMNFUCKMYLIFEHATECCP!HATESELF!RRAAAGGGEEEEEQUIT!!!!!!!! There wasn't even a notice, popup, or anything. Pretty sure I didn't log in for the next week. The consequences of such SP loss is... ridiculous. Its nearly a month of game time to train 1.4M SP even with +5s and a proper attribute map. I have lots of other things I'd rather be training than something I've already trained once before. Here's another parable for us old-timers. Ever played D&D? Remember that feeling when you encountered monsters like Vampires, Wraiths, Shadow Dragons, and other undead that could drain your character's levels even unto death? What typically happens when you get hit and the DM says those dreaded words "Whelp. You lose x levels"? Pencils break, dice fly, and people walk out. Why? Because it took that player a lot of time to get there, time that they will never have back. Sometimes they would even die instantly no matter how many HP they had. It also caused problems for everyone in the group because now that player couldn't perform up to the same skill level as the rest of the party. Same principle applies here in Eve-O. Permanent experience loss is not only a bad mechanic, but one of the most hated game mechanics ever. Because SP loss is potentially weeks lost from something someone has had no choice but to wait patiently to get, they are much more emotionally invested in the loss. Not only that, but high multiplier skills within a certain skill set (like Leadership) are generally completed after a remap, very few of which we get. They cannot be spent frivolously and only replenish at a rate one a year. If you lose that skill while mapped for something else, it takes even longer to retrain that skill than before. I don't know bout everyone else, but I'm not spending 2 remaps just to shave one week off of a 4 or 5 week skill. Having to pay isk for an upgraded clone to avert this loss was also an indirect time sink. Though to a lesser extent. It didn't take anywhere near as long to get a few dozens of millions of isk. But it was still a time sink, as well as an isk sink. Fortunately, isk costs were reduced enough to make it not quite so painful. If I as a pilot were buying an actual clone that I could produce, see, and trade rather than some vaporous number on a spreadsheet that has "100M SP" tattooed on it, having a clone would become more immersive and potentially have consequences like people want. For example: no more clones at your base or corp HQ? You wake up in hisec NPC corp station. RIP deployment for the next 30 minutes while you travel back to base. No loss of SP. But you do have to spend a small chunk of time getting back into the fight. If the fight is under heavy tidi, you can get back into the action "sooner". But it will still take the same amount of rl time to get there. This kind of mechanic might even make clone-vat capable ships more valuable, especially in w-space. Running out of clones should not be inconsequential. But neither should it be the rage-inducing, month-long experience in self-flagellation that is has been until now. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2025	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:34:42 - [234] - Quote Querns wrote: I've always been in favor of a jump-fatigue-like mechanic for jump clones (even before jump fatigue was conceived.) The way it works in my head is that using a jump clone to the same station is a very short cooldown (possibly even no cooldown,) and the further you travel, the longer the cooldown becomes, up to the current maximum. how about player made clones. instead of clone price for SP it would clone price for clone specialisation. one of them could be a jump fatigue clone that reduces the timer by 50% and stacks against ships that already have a reduction... but the clone cant put in any implants. the idea is to expand choice for clones you have... make it so you can have more then one clone per station and have player made clones that add choice for players. I liked the idea where if you wanted to put in pirate faction implants you should have a pirate faction clone. that way if you want to use anything better then "standard" attribute implants you would need that pirate factions Clone. RP would be along the line that because these implants are high specialised in how and where they use the brain it takes a special designed clone that can take the input. Make clone BPC drop from pirate faction ships and make them available in faction LP stores. Clones would be made from dead pod pilots whose clones you collect after podding them or from PI materials. Though keep in mind that clones made from PVP produce new clones faster then ones made from scratch. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 223	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:38:20 - [235] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Zhula Guixgrixks wrote: THIS -> "There will no longer be any skillpoint loss upon death." lead to THIS -> Hello Kitty in space, or WoW Because clicking three buttons and spending a little ISK to prevent skillpoint loss IS LITERALLY THE REASON THAT THIS GAME IS SO HARDCORE If it's only a little isk then it's not a problem. Next it will be implants and ships. Eve is being moved into ***** mode one step at a time. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve... Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 223	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:43:21 - [236] - Quote Dersen Lowery wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Friday Football wrote: Weighing in on this as a NEW player (lots of vets speaking their minds), I am excited by the prospect of more PVP. That's what brought me into EVE in the first place. I'm going to bet this won't make jot of difference to the amount of pvp. What your hearing is mainly propaganda with no evidence. I'd like to see after a couple of months if this had made any difference whatsover to the amount of pvp; I very much doubt it. If there's no effect at all, then the old system had no effect either. In that case, the systems are interchangeable in terms of their impact on the game; why not prefer the simpler of the two? Because when I kill my enemy I want it to hurt. Ships and implants can all be SRP'd. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve... Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2026	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:48:41 - [237] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Dersen Lowery wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Friday Football wrote: Weighing in on this as a NEW player (lots of vets speaking their minds), I am excited by the prospect of more PVP. That's what brought me into EVE in the first place. I'm going to bet this won't make jot of difference to the amount of pvp. What your hearing is mainly propaganda with no evidence. I'd like to see after a couple of months if this had made any difference whatsover to the amount of pvp; I very much doubt it. If there's no effect at all, then the old system had no effect either. In that case, the systems are interchangeable in terms of their impact on the game; why not prefer the simpler of the two? Because when I kill my enemy I want it to hurt. Ships and implants can all be SRP'd. yeah and so can clones... whats the point... this aint about the big fish its about the small guy who has lots of SP left the game a few years ago and is coming back and might not have the much isk to support the clone not to mention new player retention who do not understand the mechanic... just get over it clones for SP are a thing of the past... Embrace player made clones for Specialization. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1211	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:15:20 - [238] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Dersen Lowery wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Friday Football wrote: Weighing in on this as a NEW player (lots of vets speaking their minds), I am excited by the prospect of more PVP. That's what brought me into EVE in the first place. I'm going to bet this won't make jot of difference to the amount of pvp. What your hearing is mainly propaganda with no evidence. I'd like to see after a couple of months if this had made any difference whatsover to the amount of pvp; I very much doubt it. If there's no effect at all, then the old system had no effect either. In that case, the systems are interchangeable in terms of their impact on the game; why not prefer the simpler of the two? Because when I kill my enemy I want it to hurt. Ships and implants can all be SRP'd. The odds of your podkill inflicting skillpoint loss is infinitesimally low, and even if you did luck into the podkill that did it, there's no way for you to know it happened unless the person you killed specifically tells you. You are literally banking on the player making an easily avoidable mistake, then having the lack of presence of mind to talk about it. But, hey GÇö-ágood news. If you want to inflict skillpoint loss on folks, just prey exclusively on strategic cruisers. That part didn't change. You even have the surety of the loss in that instance! This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 255	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:57:30 - [239] - Quote Querns wrote: The odds...infinitesimally low Almost as low as me making a good post
Medalyn Isis Aliastra Gallente Federation 458	Posted - 2014.12.03 23:06:44 - [240] - Quote gascanu wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Querns wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: All I am suggesting is that medical clones can "only" be set at a station with a medical facility, instead of the current arrangement of being able to set it at a corporation office. You are aware that pilots can only choose to sync their medical clone with the corporation's single designated system once per year, right? Yes, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, that drawback is trivial as most people who reside in the area which I live in and many other areas of NPC null are permanent residents. They've probably had their clone set in its current location for the last 5 years or more. Also there is virtually no drawback to making it so medical clone can only be set at a station with medical facilities. I'm sure you could support this simple fix Querns; there are no drawback, and it would only be beneficial in allowing us to keep the landscape of eve a little bumpy. and why should this be a bad move? sov space is getting reshaped, why npc 0.0/low sec should be excluded? yes, this will change political landscape, but why are you assuming this will be for the worst? atm, cloning facility are quite sparse in 0.0 npc(not sure about low sec), so controlling the cloning station/system gives you a measure of control over the nearby station systems that don't have one, so many of those are basically abandoned. since eve is going towards occupational sov, this change will be doing about the same thing in NPC 0.0/low sec. tldr: it's a bad change for you personally, but this does not mean it's a bad change for eve I'd prefer that they did keep the importance of medical bays, not that it would benefit me personally, but simply to give the player a more meaningful strategic decision when choosing where to locate. That being said, I'd just like to know one way or the other if this is an intended change, or if there is any chance of medical bays being made important again. It seems like an oversight on CCPs part as they haven't mentioned it at all. Either way it is not the end of the world, but would just be nice to know why this was done and if it is here to stay.

Commissar Kate GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 100031	Posted - 2014.12.03 23:50:21 - [241] - Quote Who else wants to bet something like this will happen in the future? Unlock all the clothes \|\| My Fanclub Harmless - Penniless - Aimless
Algathas Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad. 46	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:05:22 - [242] - Quote Soldarius wrote: If I as a pilot were buying an actual clone that I could produce, see, and trade rather than some vaporous number on a spreadsheet that has "100M SP" tattooed on it, having a clone would become more immersive and potentially have consequences like people want. For example: no more clones at your base or corp HQ? You wake up in hisec NPC corp station. RIP deployment for the next 30 minutes while you travel back to base. No loss of SP. But you do have to spend a small chunk of time getting back into the fight. If the fight is under heavy tidi, you can get back into the action "sooner". But it will still take the same amount of rl time to get there. This kind of mechanic might even make clone-vat capable ships more valuable, especially in w-space. Running out of clones should not be inconsequential. But neither should it be the rage-inducing, month-long experience in self-flagellation that is has been until now. Except that they are replacing clones with nothing. I would be perfectly happy if they put something useful in the current mechanic's place. But replacing them with nothing but a "maybe we will do something with them sometime when we get around to it" is not really acceptable.
Algathas Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad. 46	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:13:23 - [243] - Quote Querns wrote: Mharius Skjem wrote: Dersen Lowery wrote: Medalyn Isis wrote: Friday Football wrote: Weighing in on this as a NEW player (lots of vets speaking their minds), I am excited by the prospect of more PVP. That's what brought me into EVE in the first place. I'm going to bet this won't make jot of difference to the amount of pvp. What your hearing is mainly propaganda with no evidence. I'd like to see after a couple of months if this had made any difference whatsover to the amount of pvp; I very much doubt it. If there's no effect at all, then the old system had no effect either. In that case, the systems are interchangeable in terms of their impact on the game; why not prefer the simpler of the two? Because when I kill my enemy I want it to hurt. Ships and implants can all be SRP'd. The odds of your podkill inflicting skillpoint loss is infinitesimally low, and even if you did luck into the podkill that did it, there's no way for you to know it happened unless the person you killed specifically tells you. You are literally banking on the player making an easily avoidable mistake, then having the lack of presence of mind to talk about it. But, hey GÇö-ágood news. If you want to inflict skillpoint loss on folks, just prey exclusively on strategic cruisers. That part didn't change. You even have the surety of the loss in that instance! It isnt about making them lose SP. It is about having some penalty for losing the pod to make someone make a strategic decision to not lose them. Most pods have no implants, so at least you inflict some isk damage on your opponent. If they lose isk per pod, most people will not lose them over and over again. For example I have seen where someone came through the gate over and over again, trying to get to their ships in a POS. The pods never had implants so only had the loss of the clone. Each time we podded them until they got tired of losing their pod and logged on a titan to bridge around the gate LOL. Under the new scenario since they have nothing to lose, the same person might just continually keep coming over and over until we get too tired to kill their worthless pod. So as you can see, a penalty for pod death can cause content by causing someone to think of a strategy to avoid it.
Brenda Esterkarzova Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.12.04 05:39:24 - [244] - Quote Well as a new player...I do not know a large amount about the great loss of SP due to being podded. I have made several trips into LowSec and lost a ship there. It was annoying, but in truth something I knew was going to happen someday and I just wanted to get it out of the way. Did a pub run with some experienced pvp'ers with frigates into NullSec. It was fun. The risk of death was there. The risk of being podded was there. I had something around 200K SP which the Alpha clone covers. Still made it out alive. Never once did I care about losing any SP. After selling a PLEX and starting some pve content while researching skills and equipment/materials replenishment I came to realize that if I wanted to pvp without cost I just had to think small. Dump everything into mining and just farm in high sec. If I go pvp then i could just take a less than 900K SP toon into low or Null and let her get podded into oblivion. Basic Alpha clone covers that SP, so please pew pew away. Yes losing that Venture or Rifter is annoying, however I have a few in reserve in several locations and crafting more to sell or use. I can throw ship after ship at you for no real loss. Hell the group I was with gifted me some ships and ISK for having the moxie to try pvp with a toon that was less than a week old. Something tells me the high end corps that love pvp have absolutely no problem covering that loss. That run also taught me that losing a ship can be more painful than losing a non upgraded pod. Why would I cry over a frigate or a lowly Alpha clone pod, you just lost a super duper T3 battleship to a swarm of level nothing bees? As CCP is going to remove this mechanic from the game I will say I now have a real reason to upgrade all my skills and fly bigger ships. Is the risk there...to me it is, always was. If I am foolhardy enough to take a fully decked out ship which I cannot or can barely afford to lose and toon full of impressively valuable implants and solo run into nullsec...maybe I need to be podded for my impressive stupidity. The SP loss was and is an inconvience, nothing more to me. Flush some ISK down a useless hole incase I am unlucky. Still did not cover the implants which i have heard are more valuable than the SP on occasion. Ship insurance can at least give me a little profit if I invest in the right level for my ship and it goes boom. Maybe some of you Veterans feel different and I respect that. It is what you are used to and humanity does not do change well. Honestly from the stand point of a Noob, yes I am a noob in this game and I bask in my silly foolishness. This change gives me more of a reason to be brave and stupid and take a chance. I will tell everyone this, I just came to this game from another more grindy, pampered, hold my hand, space mmo which I really only enjoyed because I was a fan of the IP. Even with the removal of the SP clone mechanic. EVE has a VERY LONG way to fall before they get that bad. This game is still incredibly hardcore in comparison to most if not all MMOs out there. That is what intrigues me. Thanks for the fun folks, see you out there.
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 415	Posted - 2014.12.04 07:11:59 - [245] - Quote It seems people have forgotten that there is one group especially who benefits from this change; we the wormhole people and especially the new ones who are to constantly upgrading their clones.
Sizeof Void Ninja Suicide Squadron 527	Posted - 2014.12.04 07:42:23 - [246] - Quote I like that I can now use my 140M SP main to light cynos, rather than use an alt... lol.
Beledia Ilphukiir Proffessional Experts Group 49	Posted - 2014.12.04 09:04:52 - [247] - Quote Algathas wrote: It isnt about making them lose SP. It is about having some penalty for losing the pod to make someone make a strategic decision to not lose them. Most pods have no implants, so at least you inflict some isk damage on your opponent. If they lose isk per pod, most people will not lose them over and over again. For example I have seen where someone came through the gate over and over again, trying to get to their ships in a POS. The pods never had implants so only had the loss of the clone. Each time we podded them until they got tired of losing their pod and logged on a titan to bridge around the gate LOL. Under the new scenario since they have nothing to lose, the same person might just continually keep coming over and over until we get too tired to kill their worthless pod. So as you can see, a penalty for pod death can cause content by causing someone to think of a strategy to avoid it. Did they tell you they were getting too heavy ISK losses, so they had to titan around you or are you just assuming things? Maybe it was done because they didn't have an infinite amount of time to play a game and wanted to get to their destination. A very good reason to do it and maybe more likely scenario considering the people in question could afford a titan. As I said though, the consequences on player behavior are certainly debatable and we'll see how things change. Personally your theoretical scenario wouldn't be a problem for me. It takes a lot more time and effort for them to come back, than it takes someone to put an end to their beer can of a spaceship and sent them back to the clone bay. Not to mention the game is already filled with ways to get through camps, that are much faster and cheaper then losing a large amount of pods. After this change they won't be cheaper, but they're still faster and much more likely to get you to your destination, so I don't see much of an issue.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 808	Posted - 2014.12.04 10:04:44 - [248] - Quote Soldarius wrote: ...Ever played D&D? Remember that feeling when you encountered monsters like Vampires, Wraiths, Shadow Dragons, and other undead that could drain your character's levels even unto death? What typically happens when you get hit and the DM says those dreaded words "Whelp. You lose x levels"? ... I played CyperPunk 2020, screw up and you get minced by a minigun toting cyborg...'Game Over man, Game over!' You people with clones don't even know you're born...:D
marly cortez Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance 58	Posted - 2014.12.04 11:05:09 - [249] - Quote Not at all pleased with the Clone changes over all, I joined this game simply because after study it was the best around, difficult to progress, costly when you got it wrong and it required time and effort, plus not a little money over a long period of time to progress. What I have seen in the past four years however has brought forwards the belief that CCP is staffed by people who believe not in the original concept of EVE but in the idea that it should be a game of instant gratification, started and finished in an afternoons thumb twitching which to be honest leaves a lot of players feeling they have wasted many years investment in both the game and CCP. The game has lost balance, skewed as it's focus currently is towards Pvp, we have seen changes over the years to Jump bridges, mining, industry and now simply moving around the game board, this constant tinkering each time has left one aspect or another of the game it a disadvantage to the point now were some players seldom venture outside there home systems and in some cases have not moved for years. The recent travel nerf's have seen players leave Null Sec in a flood, or at the very least become very resistant to movement at all placing a real strain on Alliance and Corp recruitment as the idea of jumping 30 or 40 gates to a system, 114 for some of us the other night, simply because they cannot even consider using Jump Bridges now, has meant that many will not even bother to join fleets and put in hours travelling on the off chance of a fight, mainly because the travel time outstrips there available play time, result, stagnant game play. What little game play content generation there was left in EVE has been stripped away simply because players don't have the time to invest in these extended travel requirement so as predicted it,s local only stuff, and even then there is marked resistance to the travel involved, I,m all for change if it improves things, but in this case it has done the opposite and as a result players are finding it harder to justify investing the time and money in EVE required just to get to the fight CCP's advertising hype promised them...Please consider ALL aspects of a change before making it. Each of these so called 'Improvements', have in fact not improved the game for all, but just for a minority faction and now we see CCP take away one of the most minor hindrances to even that area, what's next, new clones complete with implants you can never loose, wonder were we have seen that sort of thing before.
Commander Spurty State War Academy Caldari State 1411	Posted - 2014.12.04 13:01:47 - [250] - Quote Strange whines: "I disagree with this change as pod loss should mean something" = It does, they left the battlefield. Military Experts are calling this "A win". Then there is this guy who states: "There should be some challenge to trying to get your pod to safety" and then goes on to say "Most pods have no implants anyway" . No, not disagreeing with yourself in the same paragraph matey. Seems that all this furor is misguided. It would be unacceptable if this change meant your implants remain intact after being podded. In fact, a lot of these whines make it sound like that this is the result of this change. That would indeed be awful. It's not though is it? It's not because that's not what will happen. Now, if you want to put a full high grade slave set in and start podding yourself "because you don't need to buy medical", go for it. [u]*signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums*[/u]

Spurty State War Academy Caldari State 1411	Posted - 2014.12.04 13:01:47 - [251] - Quote Strange whines: "I disagree with this change as pod loss should mean something" = It does, they left the battlefield. Military Experts are calling this "A win". Then there is this guy who states: "There should be some challenge to trying to get your pod to safety" and then goes on to say "Most pods have no implants anyway" . No, not disagreeing with yourself in the same paragraph matey. Seems that all this furor is misguided. It would be unacceptable if this change meant your implants remain intact after being podded. In fact, a lot of these whines make it sound like that this is the result of this change. That would indeed be awful. It's not though is it? It's not because that's not what will happen. Now, if you want to put a full high grade slave set in and start podding yourself "because you don't need to buy medical", go for it. [u]*signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums*[/u]
Algathas Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad. 46	Posted - 2014.12.04 13:12:22 - [252] - Quote Beledia Ilphukiir wrote: Algathas wrote: It isnt about making them lose SP. It is about having some penalty for losing the pod to make someone make a strategic decision to not lose them. Most pods have no implants, so at least you inflict some isk damage on your opponent. If they lose isk per pod, most people will not lose them over and over again. For example I have seen where someone came through the gate over and over again, trying to get to their ships in a POS. The pods never had implants so only had the loss of the clone. Each time we podded them until they got tired of losing their pod and logged on a titan to bridge around the gate LOL. Under the new scenario since they have nothing to lose, the same person might just continually keep coming over and over until we get too tired to kill their worthless pod. So as you can see, a penalty for pod death can cause content by causing someone to think of a strategy to avoid it. Did they tell you they were getting too heavy ISK losses, so they had to titan around you or are you just assuming things? Maybe it was done because they didn't have an infinite amount of time to play a game and wanted to get to their destination. A very good reason to do it and maybe more likely scenario considering the people in question could afford a titan. As I said though, the consequences on player behavior are certainly debatable and we'll see how things change. Personally your theoretical scenario wouldn't be a problem for me. It takes a lot more time and effort for them to come back, than it takes someone to put an end to their beer can of a spaceship and sent them back to the clone bay. Not to mention the game is already filled with ways to get through camps, that are much faster and cheaper then losing a large amount of pods. After this change they won't be cheaper, but they're still faster and much more likely to get you to your destination, so I don't see much of an issue. They titan bridged to go what would be 1 jump by gate. So their effort to come back is nill except that their pod had expense. Even in a normal combat scenario, most people don't have implants, thus if this patch goes through they would actually prefer to be podded so they can come back quicker. A system where people prefer to die is worse than a system with clones.
Algathas Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad. 46	Posted - 2014.12.04 13:18:43 - [253] - Quote Commander Spurty wrote: Strange whines: Then there is this guy who states: "There should be some challenge to trying to get your pod to safety"* and then goes on to say [i]"Most pods have no implants anyway"* . No, not disagreeing with yourself in the same paragraph matey. Seems that all this furor is misguided. I'm not contradicting myself at all. There definitely should be a challenge or reason to get your pod to safety even without implants in your pod. Why should someone prefer to be podded so they can come back quicker? Shouldn't death be something not preferable, or at the very least if you choose to die, then you get to your base quicker but you choose the consequence. If these changes go through it would be more preferable to be podded than to not be podded, to the point where I imagine anyone without implants thats not podded will even self destruct rather than trying to live.
gascanu Bearing Srl. 198	Posted - 2014.12.04 15:20:11 - [254] - Quote Algathas wrote: Commander Spurty wrote: Strange whines: Then there is this guy who states: "There should be some challenge to trying to get your pod to safety"* and then goes on to say [i]"Most pods have no implants anyway"* . No, not disagreeing with yourself in the same paragraph matey. Seems that all this furor is misguided. I'm not contradicting myself at all. There definitely should be a challenge or reason to get your pod to safety even without implants in your pod. Why should someone prefer to be podded so they can come back quicker? Shouldn't death be something not preferable, or at the very least if you choose to die, then you get to your base quicker but you choose the consequence. If these changes go through it would be more preferable to be podded than to not be podded, to the point where I imagine anyone without implants thats not podded will even self destruct rather than trying to live. newsflash: that's exactlly how is happening right now; you die in a fight, and if you are away from home and have no implants you let yourself podded or selfdestruct
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace Unsettled. 173	Posted - 2014.12.04 18:48:11 - [255] - Quote gascanu wrote: newsflash: that's exactlly how is happening right now; you die in a fight, and if you are away from home and have no implants you let yourself podded or selfdestruct But people don't even undock because of medical clone costs? Anyway, earlier pod express at least cost something, in the future there's no reason ever to not SD or ask to get podded. In other words, pod death becomes a mean of transport instead of something to avoid.
Mr Omniblivion GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 256	Posted - 2014.12.04 21:02:56 - [256] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: But people don't even undock because of medical clone costs? It's amazing how many people can't see that this is a bad thing for the game overall. Quote: John Doe is a 200mil skillpoint character that rarely undocks because his clone cost is very high. If John were to undock, that means that he is most likely flying a ship made by a player. If John gets blown up, that means that a player needs to make another ship for John to fly in their new pod. People making ships for John create more demand for minerals, t2 items, t3 items, faction gear, etc. In order for people to make ships and items for John, people need to move materials from point A to B. With high clone costs, John likely will not undock to go shoot that neutral freighter passing through his system, which is carrying goods that will be made into the next ship he undocks in.
JamnOne Jammin Corp Jammin Mad 23	Posted - 2014.12.04 21:18:28 - [257] - Quote Since our clones won't be stuck to a pod anymore that we cherish, and CCP has learned how to make players walk with DUST514(R), does this mean we can walk in station now? Okay - on a more serious note, with players no longer having to worry about skill point losses due to clone loses I can see an increase of griefing. Why worry about the consequences when there is nothing to lose but a cheap ship?
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace Unsettled. 175	Posted - 2014.12.04 21:26:02 - [258] - Quote But people currently SD or get themselves podded to get home faster? Make up your minds? Also, John Doe's medical clone costs 46 million isk. As much as a T1 cruiser, this is not "very high" by anyone's standards. The most expensive medical clone in game is 105mil. Which is also nothing. Average clone cost using eveboard data is 2.1 million.
Pic'n dor Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda 40	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:56:29 - [259] - Quote Pod fatigue anyone ? If podkill X LY from your home system,you can't Jump Clone for Y minutes more and Z minutes upon skill queue reactivation ? mouhahahah i love bad ideas ! Rejoignez-nous : http://www.epsilon-lyr.com
Serenit Adoulin Animus Supra Corpus Most Usual Suspects 19	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:10:06 - [260] - Quote First of all: HURREEAYYYY WE ALL LOVE YOU FOR THESE CHANGES. (not all cuz haters apperently but haters gona hate ...) I think the changes are pretty awsome. Eventhough i would like to prupose another idea to consider: What about a small chance to get implants back if you unplug them ? that dont need to be a high chance so only like 20 or 40 percent or even lower. also that may change from implan to implant (expansive ones lower rate, cheap ones higher or so) That would make it better for players who have expansive implantes but dont need or use the effect anymore. For example If someone plugged a +5 capacitor implant into his Pod. has no jumpclones jet and needs the 6 slot for a t2 omega implant or a other hardwire implant. The speciffic person has improved his skills on cap management as well. No he is forced to unplug the implant and destroys it. In my opinion, if you are so far ahead in neuro technologie to make your ship generate more cap through a piece of electronic cercuits pluged into your brain, than you normally also live in a civilization that has the techonolgy to unplug these things again without damageing you (allready possible) and the implant as well (currently not possible) Also that could be applied to riggs, of course, since it is basicly the same thing. for ships, but that would have a way to big impact on the ecconomy of salvage and inpracticable to get you the intact rigg back. -serenit

Serenit Adoulin Animus Supra Corpus Most Usual Suspects 19	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:17:42 - [261] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: But people currently SD or get themselves podded to get home faster? "most expensive medical clone in game is 105mil. Which is also nothing. " Average clone cost using eveboard data is 2.1 million. 1. Don't missunderstand me, but 105m for the most expansive clone is still unpracticable to lose often in a row. Its like a fee for beeing playing long which is stupid. In addition thats now, after the remap of the skillgrade costs. The maximum cost for a clone used to be far more! 2. Averages are dangerous to play with. Especially since people with more than 2,1m Sp know who to save pods and will do so. Also more people with low SP die in FW for example. There is a nice statistic I like to bring if people argue with averages: 9 out of 10 people enjoy a massrape. Shoudn't we apply democratic values now and make it legal then ? Think about it. you might judge a book on its cover. -Serenit
dark heartt 509	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:38:43 - [262] - Quote Dr Cedric wrote: Granted, some will take my following statement and simply say "that was your choice!" On the other hand: I have been playing for 10 years, and my subscription has been active for 9.5 of those. I love this game, enough to call it a hobby and to base life choices on it! I have a record of almost every single pod death I've suffered, (or at least those since the game started tracking it). I'm able to play maybe 5 hours a week, and when i do I participate with the group im with. If its mining or anoms or PvP, I join right in. Its taken me thise 10 years to accrue the 2B in assets and 500M in liquid ISK on this character. When (not if) i get podded it hurts, as each of thise pods cost 30M+ ISK each. So, my real question: can we get a refund of the ISK invested in a soon-to-be useless mechanic? Playing the game would take me, personally, 8 weeks or so to make back that ISK. Im willing and able to do it, but I'd much rather be making content for other players, rather than ratting. Thanks for the consideration No. http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/ Just an Aussie with a mining laser and too much time.
erittainvarma Fistful of Finns Triumvirate. 27	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:10:47 - [263] - Quote marly cortez wrote: Not at all pleased with the Clone changes over all, I joined this game simply because after study it was the best around, difficult to progress, costly when you got it wrong and it required time and effort, plus not a little money over a long period of time to progress. What I have seen in the past four years however has brought forwards the belief that CCP is staffed by people who believe not in the original concept of EVE but in the idea that it should be a game of instant gratification, started and finished in an afternoons thumb twitching which to be honest leaves a lot of players feeling they have wasted many years investment in both the game and CCP. The game has lost balance, skewed as it's focus currently is towards Pvp, we have seen changes over the years to Jump bridges, mining, industry and now simply moving around the game board, this constant tinkering each time has left one aspect or another of the game at a disadvantage to the point now were some players seldom venture outside there home systems and in some cases have not moved for years. The recent travel nerf's have seen players leave Null Sec in a flood, or at the very least become very resistant to movement at all placing a real strain on Alliance and Corp recruitment as the idea of jumping 30 or 40 gates to a system, 114 for some of us the other night, simply because they cannot even consider using Jump Bridges now, has meant that many will not even bother to join fleets and put in hours travelling on the off chance of a fight, mainly because the travel time outstrips there available play time, result, stagnant game play. What little game play content generation there was left in EVE has been stripped away simply because players don't have the time to invest in these extended travel requirement so as predicted it,s local only stuff, and even then there is marked resistance to the travel involved, I,m all for change if it improves things, but in this case it has done the opposite and as a result players are finding it harder to justify investing the time and money in EVE required just to get to the fight CCP's advertising hype promised them...Please consider ALL aspects of a change before making it. Each of these so called 'Improvements', have in fact not improved the game for all, but just for a minority faction and now we see CCP take away one of the most minor hindrances to even that area, what's next, new clones complete with implants you can never loose, wonder were we have seen that sort of thing before. So, the game is wrong, not your choice? Why are you in alliance that sits behind vast blue sea? You can fix your EVE yourself, leave CFC (and other big blocks) and go to smaller alliance that actually does some stuff alone. My PVP starts under 10 jumps, usually much closer. Past jump changes era have been pretty much best time in EVE I have had in "bigger" fleets, as we can select to engage only 1-2 CFC entities per time. Or if they all come, just skip that fight and have 300 dudes waste hours for nothing.
Sable Moran Moran Light Industries 424	Posted - 2014.12.05 12:39:11 - [264] - Quote Quintessen wrote: Good change overall. Now I'd like to see other penalties removed that prevent people from playing the game itself. I'm thinking standings penalties for missions for factions you care about. I'm thinking about standings loss from faction warfare. I don't think the loss of standings is much of a problem. The problem is that in some cases restoring those standings is virtually impossible and in many cases maybe a bit too much of a chore. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 7197	Posted - 2014.12.05 21:22:34 - [265] - Quote Beledia Ilphukiir wrote: Algathas wrote: It isnt about making them lose SP. It is about having some penalty for losing the pod to make someone make a strategic decision to not lose them. Most pods have no implants, so at least you inflict some isk damage on your opponent. If they lose isk per pod, most people will not lose them over and over again. For example I have seen where someone came through the gate over and over again, trying to get to their ships in a POS. The pods never had implants so only had the loss of the clone. Each time we podded them until they got tired of losing their pod and logged on a titan to bridge around the gate LOL. Under the new scenario since they have nothing to lose, the same person might just continually keep coming over and over until we get too tired to kill their worthless pod. So as you can see, a penalty for pod death can cause content by causing someone to think of a strategy to avoid it. Did they tell you they were getting too heavy ISK losses, so they had to titan around you or are you just assuming things? Maybe it was done because they didn't have an infinite amount of time to play a game and wanted to get to their destination. A very good reason to do it and maybe more likely scenario considering the people in question could afford a titan. As I said though, the consequences on player behavior are certainly debatable and we'll see how things change. Personally your theoretical scenario wouldn't be a problem for me. It takes a lot more time and effort for them to come back, than it takes someone to put an end to their beer can of a spaceship and sent them back to the clone bay. Not to mention the game is already filled with ways to get through camps, that are much faster and cheaper then losing a large amount of pods. After this change they won't be cheaper, but they're still faster and much more likely to get you to your destination, so I don't see much of an issue. Getting around this mechanic of spamming clown clones everywhere is likely to cause CCP to get timer on the activation of new clone after death like with caps. Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
Noslen Nosilla Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate United Interests 24	Posted - 2014.12.06 01:49:09 - [266] - Quote Setting your home station will cost 100,000 ISK instead of 5400 ISK? BTW it's 5600 ISK, but wow talk about inflation, I often move about and changing my "Home System" was a common thing for me to do...while 100,000 ISK isn't much it's still a unjustified cost increase...does CCP not want us to move around in the game? Oh Great Bird of the Galaxy does no one ever read the news?
dark heartt 510	Posted - 2014.12.06 02:20:27 - [267] - Quote Noslen Nosilla wrote: Setting your home station will cost 100,000 ISK instead of 5400 ISK? BTW it's 5600 ISK, but wow talk about inflation, I often move about and changing my "Home System" was a common thing for me to do...while 100,000 ISK isn't much it's still a unjustified cost increase...does CCP not want us to move around in the game? It'll still be cheaper for you in the long run than the cost of updating clones constantly. 100,000 isk is a trivial amount, and you need isk sinks need to exist. http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/ Just an Aussie with a mining laser and too much time.
servalaan 7	Posted - 2014.12.06 11:23:29 - [268] - Quote UFS Fenix wrote: What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that. Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one. Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game. We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up. Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed. What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless... Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun. Amen. If pinocchio told you his nose was about to grow, what would happen?
Ashlar Vellum 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 128	Posted - 2014.12.06 18:21:17 - [269] - Quote Mr Omniblivion wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: But people don't even undock because of medical clone costs? It's amazing how many people can't see that this is a bad thing for the game overall. Nah man, people who didn't undock 'cause of clone costs will find another excuse to stay docked. Losing precious +5s, ogb everywhere, warp travel time, can't fly a T3, loss of skill points for losing T3s or they just can't remove some expensive implant that they plugged in 5 seconds ago ... etc. possibilities for excuses are endless. The only thing this change will do is remove an isk sink, nothing more.
hagris Arcana Coelestia 0	Posted - 2014.12.07 15:40:05 - [270] - Quote This change alone was enough to get me to resub

Kblackjack54 Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance 128	Posted - 2014.12.08 03:04:34 - [271] - Quote erittainvarma wrote: marly cortez wrote: Not at all pleased with the Clone changes over all, I joined this game simply because after study it was the best around, difficult to progress, costly when you got it wrong and it required time and effort, plus not a little money over a long period of time to progress. What I have seen in the past four years however has brought forwards the belief that CCP is staffed by people who believe not in the original concept of EVE but in the idea that it should be a game of instant gratification, started and finished in an afternoons thumb twitching which to be honest leaves a lot of players feeling they have wasted many years investment in both the game and CCP. The game has lost balance, skewed as it's focus currently is towards Pvp, we have seen changes over the years to Jump bridges, mining, industry and now simply moving around the game board, this constant tinkering each time has left one aspect or another of the game at a disadvantage to the point now were some players seldom venture outside there home systems and in some cases have not moved for years. The recent travel nerf's have seen players leave Null Sec in a flood, or at the very least become very resistant to movement at all placing a real strain on Alliance and Corp recruitment as the idea of jumping 30 or 40 gates to a system, 114 for some of us the other night, simply because they cannot even consider using Jump Bridges now, has meant that many will not even bother to join fleets and put in hours travelling on the off chance of a fight, mainly because the travel time outstrips there available play time, result, stagnant game play. What little game play content generation there was left in EVE has been stripped away simply because players don't have the time to invest in these extended travel requirement so as predicted it,s local only stuff, and even then there is marked resistance to the travel involved, I,m all for change if it improves things, but in this case it has done the opposite and as a result players are finding it harder to justify investing the time and money in EVE required just to get to the fight CCP's advertising hype promised them...Please consider ALL aspects of a change before making it. Each of these so called 'Improvements', have in fact not improved the game for all, but just for a minority faction and now we see CCP take away one of the most minor hindrances to even that area, what's next, new clones complete with implants you can never loose, wonder were we have seen that sort of thing before. So, the game is wrong, not your choice? Why are you in alliance that sits behind vast blue sea? You can fix your EVE yourself, leave CFC (and other big blocks) and go to smaller alliance that actually does some stuff alone. My PVP starts under 10 jumps, usually much closer. Past jump changes era have been pretty much best time in EVE I have had in "bigger" fleets, as we can select to engage only 1-2 CFC entities per time. Or if they all come, just skip that fight and have 300 dudes waste hours for nothing. Let's agree that you misunderstood the direction of my post but that said the facts are self evident for some Alliances, travel time exceeding available game time for a number of players is now becoming a real problem for Alliances. Why I am in an Alliance surrounded by a sea of blue is simply down to history and the fact that my members as a group have and see no reason to move. If that changes I will take them were they wish to go. As for your own circumstances, that you are positioned just 10 or so jumps out from your engagement systems is fortuoutous for your Alliance, you should hope that remains the case rather than gloat about it. =ƒÿë
Severnij Veter Amamake Liberation Force 0	Posted - 2014.12.08 10:43:33 - [272] - Quote I play EvE, because it's challenging. I lost SP once and had understanding that everything is mortal in EvE. It gives unique feeling, extreme passion and adrenaline. In my opinion the harder - the better. Game should be a challenge. Moreover, in ideal Eve there should be chance of permanent death. Now, it becomes just like Warcraft or any other arcade facegrind games.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 120	Posted - 2014.12.08 13:53:17 - [273] - Quote Severnij Veter wrote: I play EvE, because it's challenging. I lost SP once and had understanding that everything is mortal in EvE. It gives unique feeling, extreme passion and adrenaline. In my opinion the harder - the better. Game should be a challenge. Moreover, in ideal Eve there should be chance of permanent death. Now, it becomes just like Warcraft or any other arcade facegrind games. How? the clone's were more like wow's armor system that you needed to repair after death so that you continue to benefit from that armor. In eve it wasn't a challenge it was needless clicking,
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 120	Posted - 2014.12.08 13:54:30 - [274] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Mr Omniblivion wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: But people don't even undock because of medical clone costs? It's amazing how many people can't see that this is a bad thing for the game overall. Nah man, people who didn't undock 'cause of clone costs will find another excuse to stay docked. Losing precious +5s, ogb everywhere, warp travel time, can't fly a T3, loss of skill points for losing T3s or they just can't remove some expensive implant that they plugged in 5 seconds ago ... etc. possibilities for excuses are endless. The only thing this change will do is remove an isk sink, nothing more. also gets rid of needless and annoying clicking.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 550	Posted - 2014.12.09 05:37:06 - [275] - Quote Lady Rift wrote: Severnij Veter wrote: I play EvE, because it's challenging. I lost SP once and had understanding that everything is mortal in EvE. It gives unique feeling, extreme passion and adrenaline. In my opinion the harder - the better. Game should be a challenge. Moreover, in ideal Eve there should be chance of permanent death. Now, it becomes just like Warcraft or any other arcade facegrind games. How? the clone's were more like wow's armor system that you needed to repair after death so that you continue to benefit from that armor. In eve it wasn't a challenge it was needless clicking, this basically. Maybe back in the days when I started in apocrypha where the isk faucets weren't as many this crap mattered. I remember having some tight budgets back then starting out. Its 2014....players new and old can scrape the isk easy for this. Even if its just a half assed attempt at PI. Or the other isk faucets put in game since I started. This harshness of eve....not seeing either. My noobtard mistake of dying in a non-upgraded clone back then was a whopping 5 day retrain. Was not harsh to me. I said oh well, undocked again (after double checking clone to not repeat the mistake ofc) for pvp and accepted I would fly with a bit of a gimp to my stats a few days. Since we have the well people will just keep undocking and undocking. People do this now. Now they can do it in less clicks. A change I like, aggravation for aggravations sake did not work here.
Andy Koraka Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion 47	Posted - 2014.12.10 02:36:35 - [276] - Quote My only gripe is that shooting the "station cloning services" is pointless now, it was a very powerful and interesting tactic to shut off someone's ability to reship. IMO make is so that when the station service gets taken out clone contracts are punted off to your Corp's "home" NPC station. Lets be real, you wouldn't want to reanimate there when the cloning shop is all shot to pieces.
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 232	Posted - 2014.12.10 23:39:22 - [277] - Quote servalaan wrote: UFS Fenix wrote: What is this? The ***** convention? So much crying, Lets just remove everything that makes eve challenging. This change and the changes to awoxing really make me want to re-consider eve. Us hardcore pilots grinded missions so we could put poses in High sec, you guys changed this. Us veterans made extra isk and for over 7 years kept our clones up to date, you changed that. Why don't you remove all standings for factions so we can run lvl 4s from day one and get good refining from day one. Why do we have pods with the current changes? Just remove the pods and make us normal eve pilots... while your at it , get rid of everything else that adds risk to the game. We can just make the ships respawn with fittings in our hangers after we get blown up. Change the name from eve-online to wow-online because that's where things are headed. What ever happened to the other changes you promised years ago? Walking in stations never went anywhere, I cant manipulate anything in my captains quarters, doors don't close, cant enter main part of station, beds are useless... Eve is about the risk/vs Reward. Removing risk, removes the fun. The cap changes last month I thought were great, things like this clone change make eve less risky and therefore less fun. Amen. +1 A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve... Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 232	Posted - 2014.12.10 23:42:27 - [278] - Quote Well patch day has been and gone and we're one day closer to p u s s i e s online... Next I predict Zero penalty for implants loss Ship's replaced in the hanger plus fittings Free to Play Eve with MT Top ups Removal of all skills so that noobs can fly all ships and use all weapons without training making Eve pay to win. Takeover by EA Games... A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve... Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1764	Posted - 2014.12.13 05:40:53 - [279] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Well patch day has been and gone and we're one day closer to p u s s i e s online... Next I predict Zero penalty for implants loss Ship's replaced in the hanger plus fittings Free to Play Eve with MT Top ups Removal of all skills so that noobs can fly all ships and use all weapons without training making Eve pay to win. Takeover by EA Games... So when do you predict this by.... And can I have all your stuff when none of this becomes true.
SabotNoob Sabot Industries 59	Posted - 2014.12.15 18:01:39 - [280] - Quote An awesome change, I love it. I just found out about it last night. I've been playing since early 2010 and was always put off from PvP because it always felt like it took too much time to find a fight and make your way back in case you lose your ship. For that reason, I left for World of Tanks for a long time because it offered instant PvP. I find that this change makes PvP far more feasible for me. I'm more likely to dive into it more often now. Rather than flying 20 jumps back in a pod, I'll either get podded or suicide to save on that time. Time better spent on buying a new ship/modules and getting into another fight. This is basically the goal that CCP is moving towards. I think it will work.

Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 27397	Posted - 2014.12.16 06:41:16 - [281] - Quote Hey. I tweeted this, and I'm also leaving this here: I triple boxed on a welp roam with two scimis and a hawk, and lost everything (including some implants whoops)... but it felt different knowing I was only going to lose what undocked. thanks. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Tyranis Marcus Bloody Heathens 1209	Posted - 2014.12.18 02:21:45 - [282] - Quote When I saw this I resubbed. Do not run. We are your friends.
Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 786	Posted - 2014.12.19 15:26:21 - [283] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Mharius Skjem wrote: Well patch day has been and gone and we're one day closer to p u s s i e s online... Next I predict Zero penalty for implants loss Ship's replaced in the hanger plus fittings Free to Play Eve with MT Top ups Removal of all skills so that noobs can fly all ships and use all weapons without training making Eve pay to win. Takeover by EA Games... So when do you predict this by.... And can I have all your stuff when none of this becomes true. What we see there is hyperbole at its finest. The devs change clones to where there is no clone grades any more and suddenly the sky is falling right.
Dr Urchin New Eden Network Solutions 0	Posted - 2014.12.24 18:35:51 - [284] - Quote To the Developers: There are many features about the clone changes I like, and the reasoning you have had for the changes is sound. However, nothing is without consequences, and I hope to point out one that may or may not have been foreseen: "Miner Bumping" is becoming a fairly common practice, in which criminals find a way to go to high sec systems to kill miners who are quietly doing their work. Heretofore, there have been two routes that the miners in high sec regions can take to defend themselves: (1) teaming up with friends who guard you or monitor the system while you work. In short: never mine alone. (2) pay large bounties on the ones who kill them, knowing that there may well be the satisfaction of the killer forgetting to upgrade his or her clone and losing badly when they get killed for the fourth or fifth time. Since many miners are forced by real life circumstances to mine alone, the latter option is often the most satisfying one. No doubt the Miner Bumpers are having fun, being pirates who get to immerse themselves entirely into the game, and kill miners that they could never get in real life. However, the high-sec mining group consists largely of many people who are having fun of a quiet game experience while in real life having to do boring paperwork or other similar drudgery. EvE mining thus becomes a release from drudgery for the miners, who could never immerse themselves fully in the game experience. Alas that the bounty route no longer offers a satisfying means of revenge for people that have never developed PvP skills. Of course, there's an interesting way that LAWSUITS could be incorporated into the game. I don't think the consequences of that change would be so good long term.


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