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[Insert patch name here] Capitals in High Sec Allowed or not?

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Nelli Alariel Cosmic Encounter Surely You're Joking 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:03:16 - [1] - Quote Hey, I'd like officially start a discussion for the pros and cons of having capitals in High Sec. I personally would like to see that happening for multiple reasons: - Ganking one would be harder but fun (because it would be like killing a freighter, except that the person would lose a few B each time which is good for KillBoard padding lol) - It makes sense Lore-wise to have them to show CONCORD that WE dominate space and not them (Capsuler supremacy anyone?) Cons: - PVE would be so easy with a carrier, but there is ways to balance that Like accelerations gate - POS wars... Yeah ok, Dreads are OP, but with a good balance for POS modules to actually inflict damage on caps (at the expense of getting a new anti-cap module) its gonna have to wait because a damn lot of POS would die really quickly lol I'm sure there is other pros and cons to that, but the goal in here is to discuss about why should capitals be allowed or not in high sec. Refrain from trolling as it does not advance the tread to actually go somewhere.
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 322	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:11:58 - [2] - Quote I'd like to see all capitals allowed to transit highsec via gates, but under similar rules as the veldnaught is under at this point. Making battleships worth the warp Tech 3 battleships. Moar battleships
Nelli Alariel Cosmic Encounter Surely You're Joking 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:19:19 - [3] - Quote I like the idea, but there is always people who will want to use their capitals in order to keep an apex weapon system with them. I agree though that supers and Titans are forbiden to ever go High sec. They are way too powerfull right now to be sent into high sec, but when you see a carrier dying to subcaps, you know that carriers are not that OP and can still be killed. (4BS can kill a carrier in under 10mins, I know, I've done it)
Catherine Laartii Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF 425	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:21:27 - [4] - Quote My thoughts on capitals in hisec: -Carriers and dreads should be barred from entry into accel gates for lvl 4s. This prevents mission abuse. -Siege mods on dreads and triage modules would be lowsec-only, and not allowed to activate in hisec space; much in the same way the scripted hictor mod works. -Supers would still be barred entry into hisec systems. No titans or motherships flying around. -Big pro would be that fighters could still be assigned to people, so if your friend or alt has a carrier they can help you out with fighters in your mission. -Gate travel with supers in hisec would be extremely safe, assuming there's no wardecs. The high HP would make carriers excellent armored transports as alternatives to freighters hauling high-value items. -The market implications would be enormous...having the trade hubs, jita specifically, open for business with capital production with the new industry mechanics would be a bonanza beyond the wildest dreams of nullbloc industry barons, as the massive demand for locally produced capitals would create a gold rush. The favorable locations of some trade hubs vs others may encourage more local industry in these areas as certain blocs would simply shift their capital production over to major trade hubs since it would be an incredibly simple matter to cyno them into low or null stations once they got into range. The local supply incentive would be far too great to ignore, and would draw even larger flocks of industrialists to places like Jita, Amarr, Hek, etc. -It would be hilarious for the noobs to undock in one of the starter systems and see giant capital ships floating around or shooting each other outside. One of the loveliest things about this game is the scale, and the size difference from a pod to a dread is impressive, to say the least.
Marcus Gord Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws. 72946	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:48:01 - [5] - Quote anyone remember what the original rationale for removing caps from highsec was in the past? Also, someone correct me if i'm wrong, but cap doctrines like slowcats or pantheon would still be viable even in highsec, right? that'd make things interesting.... ".....Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well....." http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 1019	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:50:14 - [6] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: -Big pro would be that fighters could still be assigned to people, so if your friend or alt has a carrier they can help you out with fighters in your mission. Good thing is that Fighters can't enter gated missions and most mission fortunately are gated. (No sarcasm involved.)
Nelli Alariel Cosmic Encounter Surely You're Joking 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:52:36 - [7] - Quote I would really like to see someone point us the way as when CCP decided that Capitals were going to Low Sec only, I'd like to see the reasoning behind it in detail from a DEV or a CSM. But yes I agree to see that capitals should not be allowed through lvl 4's, I wouldn't get them assigned fighters either actually for missions.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace Unsettled. 169	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:53:33 - [8] - Quote I think that current situation where a high SP player needs to leave the starter zone in order to fly capitals is good.
Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 3015	Posted - 2014.12.03 10:55:19 - [9] - Quote Assuming T2 guns and all Vs, it'd take 103 tornados to gank my carrier in it's standard fit, with them all shooting into my resist hole and all doing max damage. That's enough ISK in tornados to buy five carriers. And that's just on the hull price. Bearing that in mind, how, exactly, do you figure that ganking one would even be possible in highsec outside of special events?

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 13413	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:00:45 - [10] - Quote Marcus Gord wrote: anyone remember what the original rationale for removing caps from highsec was in the past? Also, someone correct me if i'm wrong, but cap doctrines like slowcats or pantheon would still be viable even in highsec, right? that'd make things interesting.... They were not really removed. CCP forgot/assumed no one would use high-sec stations to build these low-sec only ships. So back in the days we still couldn't use the gates, and not all systems had manufacturing slots (and POS'es couldn't be everywhere). But they removed the ability to build since the ships were low-sec only, and thus the risk of building them should be applied to low-sec too. /c GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba


Nelli Alariel Cosmic Encounter Surely You're Joking 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:35:23 - [11] - Quote Then, building them in lowsec and having them going to high sec could be still something
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 14076	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:59:32 - [12] - Quote Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Rivr Luzade Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 1023	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:10:41 - [13] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next. Just all the good things High sec is desperately craving for.
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 1788	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:24:55 - [14] - Quote That reminds me I have to go get a Titan concordokkened on the test server before the mirror
Nelli Alariel Cosmic Encounter Surely You're Joking 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:27:32 - [15] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next. There is always the way of trying to get some modification on how they will be allowed into high sec.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 14080	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:55:57 - [16] - Quote Nelli Alariel wrote: baltec1 wrote: Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next. There is always the way of trying to get some modification on how they will be allowed into high sec. If you have to nerf them into uselessness then they dont belong in high sec in the first place. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Nelli Alariel Cosmic Encounter Surely You're Joking 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:58:54 - [17] - Quote Maybe there is a way to balance them then ? I'm sure CCP will wait until they get around to do the capital rebalance, but in the mean time... could there be a way to balance them so they are not totally useless and they are not too OP as to be an high sec apex weapon
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 14080	Posted - 2014.12.03 23:13:49 - [18] - Quote Nelli Alariel wrote: Maybe there is a way to balance them then ? I'm sure CCP will wait until they get around to do the capital rebalance, but in the mean time... could there be a way to balance them so they are not totally useless and they are not too OP as to be an high sec apex weapon Dreads only have one job so no, you cant. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2025	Posted - 2014.12.04 01:36:08 - [19] - Quote id rather this didnt happen, caps suck the fun out of EVE. But CCP said in a dev blog that they'd like it to, and with no restrictions would you believe. Not looking forward to the day carrier reps take part in station games and dreads are used to run ungated missions and wipe out POS's in a few mins. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Eldwinn SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel 129	Posted - 2014.12.04 01:39:39 - [20] - Quote No. Image running level 5s in your titan. Firm -1

ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 6691	Posted - 2014.12.04 01:41:53 - [21] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: id rather this didnt happen, caps suck the fun out of EVE. But CCP said in a dev blog that they'd like it to, and with no restrictions would you believe. I believe their exact words were "capitals are still not allowed to enter high-sec... but we might revisit this in the future." Underlined the important word. When someone says "might" it is usually a safe bet that they won't do it unless they have a compelling reason to... which there isn't. In fact, there are more compelling reasons to keep capitals OUT of high-sec. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2026	Posted - 2014.12.04 01:55:10 - [22] - Quote Quote: Gate movement Carriers, dreadnoughts, supercarriers, titans and capital industrials can now use stargates, provided they do not lead into a highsec system. We want to reduce the usage of jump drives (see below), but we donGÇÖt also want to lock ships into particular systems. We also want to encourage more gate-to-gate traffic and allow more ships to use gates! WeGÇÖd like to allow capitals into highsec without restriction in the future, but itGÇÖs a major change that is for a later time. For now, this maintains the status quo in highsec. Source Without restriction may mean just letting them use gates, or it may mean fully operational in hi-sec. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies Apocalypse Now. 0	Posted - 2014.12.04 01:57:39 - [23] - Quote I have been playing EVE with one toon or another since before 2004. I remember capitals in high-sec, lol :) Here goes, from a vet that's seen it all, done it all... Motherships, or what they call supercarriers now a day, and Titans serve no purpose in high sec. Those are 'super' (well they used to be, now its a joke) weapons. Dreads, i can't see the point of them in high sec.... POS bashing would be too easy, they can't really hit anything small with those capital weapons... leave them out. Now carriers... those are interesting. Very multi-tasking ships, which have been gathering dust for quite sometime. Allow them in high-sec for logistic runs, force multiplier, etc. Don't let them use smartbombs, triage and maybe even stop/nerf the usage of remote repairs/boosters. Carriers would become the favorite ship and expensive cargo mover for high sec to low sec. They are a good force multiplier, and players have found roles for them time and over.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 6691	Posted - 2014.12.04 01:58:17 - [24] - Quote Interesting. But the wording is still vague and non-committal. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2026	Posted - 2014.12.04 02:10:33 - [25] - Quote d0cTeR9 wrote: Now carriers... Very multi-tasking ships, Yep, too good in fact. Quote: Would become the favorite ship and expensive cargo mover Because they are so powerful Quote: They are a good force multiplier, and players have found roles for them time and over. Because they are so powerful Quote: which have been gathering dust for quite sometime. Wait. What? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises 13004	Posted - 2014.12.04 02:13:39 - [26] - Quote If Dreadnoughts and Carriers were allowed in, I'd suggest the following: Capital Reps are deemed "illegal", much like smartbombs or other modules- using them would be a big no-no. Siege Modules are also illegal- activating either of these types would result in a swift explosion. A City made of Wood is built in the forest A City made of Stone is built in the mountains But a City made of Dreams...is built in heaven. Jovian Proverb GÖâ
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 70	Posted - 2014.12.04 02:58:43 - [27] - Quote OK just my opinion here but since you asked. Allow all caps to transit through high sec only to make moving them around because of the new jump limitations seems to be a wise and appropriate thing to do. However alll modules that are offensive in nature or that can be used for remote rep or boosting should be disabled allowing for purely defensive module activation only. Why, I have seen what a single carrier flown by a good pilot can do and that level of damage and tanking would be impossible for all but the largest of the high sec corps/alliances to deal with. This would turn high sec into a virtually risk free killing zone for cap ship pilots.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1745	Posted - 2014.12.04 03:12:58 - [28] - Quote Nothing actually is currently coded to stop capitals using their abilities in high sec (Except for DD). It runs on the honour system and only works because of how few exist in high sec. So any 'limiting' of what they can do in highsec will require additional coding.
Aqriue Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 715	Posted - 2014.12.04 04:55:39 - [29] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Assuming T2 guns and all Vs, it'd take 103 tornados to gank my carrier in it's standard fit, with them all shooting into my resist hole and all doing max damage. That's enough ISK in tornados to buy five carriers. And that's just on the hull price. Bearing that in mind, how, exactly, do you figure that ganking one would even be possible in highsec outside of special events? Type of logic I like, want to destroy my stuff you have to take a huge loss...good thing 99% of EVE is so risk adverse they have to fly so cheap to avoid a loss and CCP won't even touch destroyers (really, removing a gun or two wouldn't be over nerfing them that badly or coding them to stop making short range guns so OP cause they fire so fast...weird how destroyers lost their 50% rate of fire and suddenly the fast rate of fire gun is preferred ). If I am stupid enough to activate a capital module that allows you to shoot back or CONCORD to instant pop me (would have to finally code this part, basically I could equip tank mods and guns but to activate the guns or remote reps...you get the idea what would happen), I take a huge loss...other wise I am sitting around in space doing nothing but transiting from one point to the other. Not everyone cares for huge power blows, but having a dread or carrier would be fun and players would respond in kind should I use it against them....sensor damping/jamming EWAR already says dreads are useless against NPC, and surprise surprise they are massive over kill in any level 4 (level 5 being already fixed locations and already well known, good thing probing is so easy level 5 agents are so lonely know unless your corp locks down the area) with Incursions already focused to often in highsec for "public" raids that they cause massive shout out, like a million deaths and where suddenly silenced on the forums. Carriers on the other hand....yeah, they are the known factor with assign fighter except for someone saying they are blocked by gates..on the other hand if they could also use bombers but restricted to just 5 or Geckos where a racial class of drone instead of a type with 50m of bandwidth each. CCP just needs to go one way, balls out and remove all caps with Chribba taking it over the barrel. No one should be given particular dispensation, but the player base keeps telling CCP how the player base should be treated....so damn weird . Think the entire game needs to go hard core mode with full SP loss and no med clones, then get back to "remove level 4s or nerf Incursion income" cause some people can't seem to compete in an Everybody vs Everybody game where somebody is getting excluded
Arthur Aihaken X A X 3982	Posted - 2014.12.04 05:02:40 - [30] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Capital reps would make ganking large ehp ships impossible, dreads would make it impossible for small corps to protect their POS, station games with carriers, jita undock blockaded with a boot fleet making undocking a freighter an hour long ordeal of bumping into one carrier then the next. Something to look forward to with the next Burn Jita... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.



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