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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Unsettled.
171
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Posted - 2014.12.04 07:23:10 -
[121] - Quote
My take on links, repost from another forum and from F&I
Links should be turned into targeted high-slot modules with RR-like range. Details are up to discussion & further development, but here's the basic lowdown repeated for the Nth time.
This requires:
1. A new small link ship (Command Destroyer would be a pretty good candidate) to better keep up with skirmish gangs and allow use in FW 2. All link ships need 9 high slots (not 9 turret/launcher hardpoints) 3. Links need to have their fitting requirements redone to allow fitting 9 links without Command Processors 4. Links need to use a non-trivial amount of capacitor 5. Adjusting CSs and T3s to make sure they all have approximately equal (or equally non-existent) damage dealing capabilities when running links (think current Eos vs the rest) 6. Links need to have their bonuses dropped considerably, because
- targeted links of the same type are stacking penalized, but several can be activated on a single ship - links can be overheated
This solution has the following benefits:
1. It solves the offgrid issue in an elegant way without recoding EVE Online bu using existing methods 2. It makes links scale with fleet size (one link ship can only boost a squad) 3. It removes the 100% alt account gameplay, but instead of resulting in mass-biomassing of all the OGB toons, it turns boosters into a new combat role that is actually exciting to play and emphasizes player skill. Currently nobody flies OGB as their main.
Links today are like champions/standard-bearers/musicians in fantasy strategy games, simply providing a blanket stats boost as long as they meet two conditions, be in fleet and present in system. I'd like to see links turned into "bards", that cast buffing spells on selected fleet members to improve their performance in critical situations. Basic gameplay is similar to logistics in EVE, but is more proactive in nature.
tl,dr; instead of being simple "engage links, receive bacon for whole fleet", targeted links do **** all nothing without the pilot making the right choices at the right time, while flying his ship on grid.
- not a finished idea as what comes to the stats, but and idea worth developing imho.
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
15753
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Posted - 2014.12.04 07:29:05 -
[122] - Quote
As bards it would make sense for the OGB to sing on comms for as long as they would want the boost to last.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
278
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Posted - 2014.12.04 07:31:51 -
[123] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:My take on links, repost from another forum and from F&ILinks should be turned into targeted high-slot modules with RR-like range. Details are up to discussion & further development, but here's the basic lowdown repeated for the Nth time. This requires: 1. A new small link ship (Command Destroyer would be a pretty good candidate) to better keep up with skirmish gangs and allow use in FW 2. All link ships need 9 high slots (not 9 turret/launcher hardpoints) 3. Links need to have their fitting requirements redone to allow fitting 9 links without Command Processors 4. Links need to use a non-trivial amount of capacitor 5. Adjusting CSs and T3s to make sure they all have approximately equal (or equally non-existent) damage dealing capabilities when running links (think current Eos vs the rest) 6. Links need to have their bonuses dropped considerably, because - targeted links of the same type are stacking penalized, but several can be activated on a single ship - links can be overheated This solution has the following benefits: 1. It solves the offgrid issue in an elegant way without recoding EVE Online bu using existing methods 2. It makes links scale with fleet size (one link ship can only boost a squad) 3. It removes the 100% alt account gameplay, but instead of resulting in mass-biomassing of all the OGB toons, it turns boosters into a new combat role that is actually exciting to play and emphasizes player skill. Currently nobody flies OGB as their main. Links today are like champions/standard-bearers/musicians in fantasy strategy games, simply providing a blanket stats boost as long as they meet two conditions, be in fleet and present in system. I'd like to see links turned into "bards", that cast buffing spells on selected fleet members to improve their performance in critical situations. Basic gameplay is similar to logistics in EVE, but is more proactive in nature. tl,dr; instead of being simple "engage links, receive bacon for whole fleet", targeted links do **** all nothing without the pilot making the right choices at the right time, while flying his ship on grid. - not a finished idea as what comes to the stats, but and idea worth developing imho. Congratulations, you've made links too much of a pain in the ass to use. So much for the "instead of resulting in mass-biomassing" part.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Unsettled.
171
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Posted - 2014.12.04 07:33:18 -
[124] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote: Congratulations, you've made links too much of a pain in the ass to use. So much for the "instead of resulting in mass-biomassing" part.
I can't really agree with that, I'd find flying this kind of link ship very interesting.
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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous Safety's Set To Red
27152
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Posted - 2014.12.04 07:43:05 -
[125] - Quote
"since this is my first post I will excuse myself from searching for past discussions about a topic that was discussed many times before"
Founder of the Graycember movement and LAGL's pet cat.
Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2362
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Posted - 2014.12.04 07:54:36 -
[126] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Congratulations, you've made links too much of a pain in the ass to use. So much for the "instead of resulting in mass-biomassing" part. Yeah, more or less this. If links become targeted modules, then you might as well bring logistics or another combat ship instead, because you'll get more utility that way. Unless, of course, links become much, much stronger. But then that leads to a whole different set of balance issues.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Unsettled.
171
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Posted - 2014.12.04 08:03:01 -
[127] - Quote
Same reasons to use links still apply- the side with links is faster, tanks more, has more tackle range, is harder to jam etc.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2364
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Posted - 2014.12.04 08:36:04 -
[128] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Same reasons to use links still apply- the side with links is faster, tanks more, has more tackle range, is harder to jam etc. The only reason why boosting is useful is because it's a force projection mechanism. If boosting operated on a 1:1 correspondence with provider/receiver, then it would be universally more advantageous to bring another combat ship instead, unless the links were made to be significantly stronger.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous Safety's Set To Red
27237
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Posted - 2014.12.04 08:39:30 -
[129] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:Same reasons to use links still apply- the side with links is faster, tanks more, has more tackle range, is harder to jam etc. The only reason why boosting is useful is because it's a force projection mechanism. If boosting operated on a 1:1 correspondence with provider/receiver, then it would be universally more advantageous to bring another combat ship instead, unless the links were made to be significantly stronger. And even then logistics would be vastly superior to WFL.
Founder of the Graycember movement and LAGL's pet cat.
Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase
I like to gank it, gank it!
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Unsettled.
171
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Posted - 2014.12.04 08:44:19 -
[130] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:Same reasons to use links still apply- the side with links is faster, tanks more, has more tackle range, is harder to jam etc. The only reason why boosting is useful is because it's a force projection mechanism. If boosting operated on a 1:1 correspondence with provider/receiver, then it would be universally more advantageous to bring another combat ship instead, unless the links were made to be significantly stronger.
Yeah, I guess 1:1 would be pretty pointless, but my suggestion is 1:9.
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
94
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Posted - 2014.12.04 08:56:36 -
[131] - Quote
Just thinking a bit outside the box now...
How about FW sites don't allow for boosts to function within them? Either certain sites or all the sites. This would protect messing with boost mechanics outside of that specific situation.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Charlie Firpol
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
280
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Posted - 2014.12.04 11:25:27 -
[132] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Timer inheritance is very much acceptable and makes sense, as long as the criminal flag discrepancy I mentioned earlier is addressed. Timers, kill mails, and sensor strength rebalancing delivered as a package should constitute an acceptable solution to this perceived problem, while keeping the overall balance of power intact.
Weapons timer would be perfectly fine for me. All I want is to be able to shoot them with my frigates :) |
Brutus Le'montac
240
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Posted - 2014.12.04 12:23:25 -
[133] - Quote
Train up for an ogb yourself, or stop whining. this is clearly the "he cant haz nice things cuz i dont haz them" kinda behavior.
people invested months of training and subscription to train for it. its also a compleet valid mechanic.
so its easy, get one yourself or stop your whining behavior.
offgrid boosting is fine. scan and kill it, or bring your own.
end of discussion.
Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Unsettled.
171
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Posted - 2014.12.04 13:13:21 -
[134] - Quote
Brutus Le'montac wrote:Train up for an ogb yourself, or stop whining. this is clearly the "he cant haz nice things cuz i dont haz them" kinda behavior.
people invested months of training and subscription to train for it. its also a compleet valid mechanic.
so its easy, get one yourself or stop your whining behavior.
offgrid boosting is fine. scan and kill it, or bring your own.
end of discussion.
This is the most ******** argument for keeping any ******** mechanic in general. Having an alt-tabbed alt that automagically wins you fights should not be a pre-requisite for PVP.
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Charlie Firpol
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
280
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Posted - 2014.12.04 13:23:29 -
[135] - Quote
Brutus Le'montac wrote:scan and kill it end of discussion.
I will say it just for you again:
You don-¦t have to scan down an offgrid booster, because they are at gates/stations, protected by sentry guns.
You can-¦t kill an offgrid booster, because they are at gates/stations, protected by sentry guns.
(strictly speaking from my factional warfare perspective, as we-¦re flying frigs and dessies 9 out of 10 times)
I hope this helps you to understand where the problem lies and I hope that you can now add something useful to this discussion.
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
206
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:43:33 -
[136] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:SoonGäó Off-grid boosting should stay. Don't like it? Probe down the booster alt, and kill it. Booster should be able to be active from behind pos shields. Don't like it? Find the moon and kill the PoS. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
279
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:43:52 -
[137] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Brutus Le'montac wrote:Train up for an ogb yourself, or stop whining. this is clearly the "he cant haz nice things cuz i dont haz them" kinda behavior.
people invested months of training and subscription to train for it. its also a compleet valid mechanic.
so its easy, get one yourself or stop your whining behavior.
offgrid boosting is fine. scan and kill it, or bring your own.
end of discussion. This is the most ******** argument for keeping any ******** mechanic in general. Having an alt-tabbed alt that automagically wins you fights should not be a pre-requisite for PVP. They don't, and it's not.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2367
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Posted - 2014.12.04 14:50:20 -
[138] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:SoonGäó Off-grid boosting should stay. Don't like it? Probe down the booster alt, and kill it. Booster should be able to be active from behind pos shields. Don't like it? Find the moon and kill the PoS. That's a really bad strawman. You can't do anything at all inside POS shields aside from activating a limited list of personal modules, so not being able to boost from within the shield is very consistent with all of the other remote assistance restrictions that entails. Try again.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
15762
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Posted - 2014.12.04 15:09:40 -
[139] - Quote
Another option would be to start adding Logi ships to killmails. This would introduce a new meta for data collection of which PVP pilots hang out with which Logi pilots by trawling killboards.
This way, if you are fighting someone, you know which Logi to be on the lookout for to probe down and kill.
It would also help you quickly identify who in Local is likely OGB.
Friendship is the best ship.
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
491
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Posted - 2014.12.04 15:21:19 -
[140] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: That's a really bad strawman. You can't do anything at all inside POS shields aside from activating a limited list of personal modules, so not being able to boost from within the shield is very consistent with all of the other remote assistance restrictions that entails. Try again.
I can't rep or transfer cap to someone who is not on grid with me, so not being able to boost someone who is not on grid with me would be consistent with all of the other forms of remote assistance. |
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2369
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Posted - 2014.12.04 15:26:57 -
[141] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: That's a really bad strawman. You can't do anything at all inside POS shields aside from activating a limited list of personal modules, so not being able to boost from within the shield is very consistent with all of the other remote assistance restrictions that entails. Try again.
I can't rep or transfer cap to someone who is not on grid with me, so not being able to boost someone who is not on grid with me would be consistent with all of the other forms of remote assistance. Even providing fleet bonuses and assigning fighters?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
491
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Posted - 2014.12.04 15:29:56 -
[142] - Quote
Oh yeah forgot about those.
Delete all boosts, logi, and caps. IMHO. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2369
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Posted - 2014.12.04 15:32:16 -
[143] - Quote
Now we're talkin'.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
185
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Posted - 2014.12.04 15:54:15 -
[144] - Quote
I haven't read the replies on this thread.
My understanding is that CCP has hated off-grid boosting for a while. I was pretty involved in the threads to update the Rorqual, and the topic of off-grid boosting was a topic there, and one of the points made was that CCP is trying to find a way to make the Rorqual survive on grid so that they could get rid of off-grid boosting.
My guess is that off-grid boosting will go away at some point, but preparatory steps have not been made yet.
As for my input, this toon that I am posting on is my Rorqual and Orca pilot and as such is mapped for leadership, and I have recently decided to train dear old Paynus for a Claymore. So I have been thinking about boosting and whatnot. Now while Paynus is an alt and I would benefit greatly from off-grid boosting (my main is a maxed out snake-fitted frigate pilot), I must admit that I do hope off-grid boosting goes away so that booster pilots are actually a player career, rather than an alt career. I think it would make a dent in Eve's "Alts Online" nature.
With that, however, I think CCP should introduce some T2 destroyers that offer a 1% link bonus (where T3s give 2% and Command Ships give 3%). So boosting would still be available to small-ship low sec groups. The destroyers should not be able to use a covert cloak. I would also like to see T3s be reconfigured somehow so that they cannot fit both cloak and links. Basically, make the boosting subsystem an offensive subsystem instead of a defensive subsystem. So you have to choose a cloak subsystem or a boost subsystem but you can't have both.
I think off-grid boosting should go away and boosting should be an actual career for a skilled player, with more ships available to provide boosts in a wider variety of contexts, and with T3s nerfed a bit in their ability to boost, in addition to requiring on grid boosts across the board. I think this should apply to the Orca as well - it must be in the belt with the miners to give mining boosts. I think the Rorqual should be given a role bonus that makes it the only ship in the game that can boost off-grid, at least until they crack the nut of how to make it survivable in the belts. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2370
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:01:30 -
[145] - Quote
Well, maybe you should read the replies, because some of them make very important points about why on-grid boosting is a bad idea.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2339
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:11:35 -
[146] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Brutus Le'montac wrote:Train up for an ogb yourself, or stop whining. this is clearly the "he cant haz nice things cuz i dont haz them" kinda behavior.
people invested months of training and subscription to train for it. its also a compleet valid mechanic.
so its easy, get one yourself or stop your whining behavior.
offgrid boosting is fine. scan and kill it, or bring your own.
end of discussion. This is the most ******** argument for keeping any ******** mechanic in general. Having an alt-tabbed alt that automagically wins you fights should not be a pre-requisite for PVP.
No, the crappiest argument for keeping something is "because I had to do it". Boosting doesn't make you automatically win. You still have to put out effort, and you can still be overwhelmed, outmaneuvered, and outsmarted. Boosts just give you a little extra.
Your posts still smack of "I want it gone because I'm afraid of using it, and hate fighting it".
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
185
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:13:21 -
[147] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Well, maybe you should read the replies, because some of them make very important points about why on-grid boosting is a bad idea.
Alright I read everything. I still think off-grid boosting should go away and boosting should be modified. There wasn't really anything substantial other than Steve's post about the technical challenges of getting rid of off-grid boosting. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:19:36 -
[148] - Quote
You should be able to receive boosts from a ship in an adjacent star system. Also, links should be active while cloaked.
It's not that hard to spend $200 on PLEX and go buy a booster alt. Stop being so lazy you dirty looters. It will be harder to farm effortless mails in an 8k m/s garmur when everyone has links but hey **** happens.
I make a lot of money so I really enjoy pay 2 win games. |
Zahhadune
the 57th Overlanders Brigade
1
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:22:16 -
[149] - Quote
Why not just have a small icon that shows someone is getting OGB. Doesn't that solve everything? You know the person is getting OGB and you can bounce if you don't want to play?? |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1146
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:22:22 -
[150] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:You should be able to receive boosts from a ship in an adjacent star system. Also, links should be active while cloaked.
It's not that hard to spend $200 on PLEX and go buy a booster alt. Stop being so lazy you dirty looters. It will be harder to farm effortless mails in an 8k m/s garmur when everyone has links but hey **** happens.
I make a lot of money so I really enjoy pay 2 win games.
Removed for trolling
-PPC Warde
TunDraGon Director ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~
Youtube ~ Join Us
My ship fits
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