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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace Unsettled.
176
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Posted - 2014.12.04 22:19:31 -
[181] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote: Titan pilots. AFK cloaky scouts. Solo-hunting recon pilots. Etc. All of those guys sit in safespots for hours on end, doing nothing. If that's how they want to play the game, IDGAF. Besides. What do you mean "doing nothing"? Aren't you the one saying OGB is some all-powerful "I Win Button"? At least be consistent.
I'm not advocating for any kind of afk alt gameplay, and you don't seem to have any arguments for promoting that either. Yes, doing nothing, the alt giving boosts does nothing after the links are running.
Quote: Yes, because it's still not going to be a PvP role that too many people will want to do with their main. Maybe carebears will be all about it, but most PvP guys that aren't supercap pilots want to brawl. Boosting is for alts, and probably always will be.
Lol, guess you've never flown logi or EWAR or even spoken with anyone who really enjoys it. Flying a targeted link ship would be like that, except more challenging.
Quote:I dislike the idea of targeted links, because you can't provide those boosts to an entire fleet. It defeats the purpose, and causes a rift in the fleet dynamic (FC forced to either play favorites, or let the noobs have all the bonuses, leaving the vets hanging... that's dumb), plus it's totally impractical and unrealistic as a goal.
Yes you can provide the boosts to an entire fleet, just bring more boosters. For a small gang, one ship would be enough. Choosing who gets boosts based on their character age would be a really bad decision, and your fleet would most likely lose. A competent booster would actually send boosts to the ships that currently need them. Impractical and unrealistic, how exactly?
Quote:That's actually a somewhat more reasonable idea than eliminating OGB, but people like you are still going to whine about it being "totally unfair". Plus, CCP would be shafting everyone who has trained a booster alt. Again... an unrealistic goal that is impractical and foolish to implement.
I have never whined about links being totally unfair, not in this thread or before. Try to focus. Do you think paying for a booster alt makes you entitled to keeping it? Anyway, keeping link toons in game is one of the goals of my suggestion. Making boosting an interesting role to play in fleet is part of what makes it a good suggestion. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6881
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 22:42:13 -
[182] - Quote
Lugia3 wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:I'm fine with OGB and I'll tell you why. To make a good booster takes a long time. It's not like banging out a gank alt on a trial. It's more than six months of focused min/max training to do one simple thing. To add on grid capabilities to that would be another number of months. So I feel there is enough of a penalty involved in training one that the balance is maintained. And as mentioned above, they can be probed down and easily blapped. Mr Epeen Frigate 1v1's. There is a brick tanked Damnation sitting on station boosting the Incursus you want to fight with your Rifter. Good luck.
First off, that's a two on one. Secondly, your logistic alt will tip the scale in your favor.
There's always a counter.
On top of that, I'd guess that frigate 1v1s are about 1/100th of 1% of the battles taking place in New Eden at any given time. Really not worth calling for a mechanic makeover, in my opinion.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 23:06:51 -
[183] - Quote
Whenever I have seen a logi in pvp its in the thick of things. And it can be attacked and killed without leaving the fight.
I have never seen an OGB in the thick of things. And you cannot attack it without leaving the fight.
And that's where it falls apart.
Make the bonuses scale with proximity so they have to make a choice, get the full benefit by being on grid and risk losing the ship or get a small bonus but not on grid and be safe.
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2341
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 23:18:08 -
[184] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote: I'm not advocating for any kind of afk alt gameplay, and you don't seem to have any arguments for promoting that either.
I've given several. You just haven't been listening because it doesn't line up with your unbending opinion.
Quote: Lol, guess you've never flown logi or EWAR or even spoken with anyone who really enjoys it. Flying a targeted link ship would be like that, except more challenging.
There are several guys in my alliance who love running EWar and Logi. Strawman. Misdirect. Fail.
Quote:Yes you can provide the boosts to an entire fleet, just bring more boosters. For a small gang, one ship would be enough. Choosing who gets boosts based on their character age would be a really bad decision, and your fleet would most likely lose. A competent booster would actually send boosts to the ships that currently need them. Impractical and unrealistic, how exactly?.
The whole fleet needs it at all times. When you're trying to break contact and spread the other fleet out, you don't need only one guy at +7% max velocity. You need the whole fleet doing it. Besides the fact that the re-coding they'd have to do to re-work links uses time better spent fixing aspects of the game that we need fixed. Not just one legit, properly functioning mechanic that only a few people whine about.
Quote: I have never whined about links being totally unfair, not in this thread or before. Try to focus. Do you think paying for a booster alt makes you entitled to keeping it? Anyway, keeping link toons in game is one of the goals of my suggestion. Making boosting an interesting role to play in fleet is part of what makes it a good suggestion.
You've done nothing but QQ about how unfair it is, this whole time. Claiming that boosting ships are impossible to scan down and kill (false). Claiming that a boosted fleet will always slaughter a non-boosted fleet (superfalse). Your suggestions are so outlandish that you should probably apply for a job with EA. They like making their own products a pain in the ass to play.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6881
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 23:21:24 -
[185] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Whenever I have seen a logi in pvp its in the thick of things. And it can be attacked and killed without leaving the fight.
I have never seen an OGB in the thick of things. And you cannot attack it without leaving the fight.
And that's where it falls apart.
Make the bonuses scale with proximity so they have to make a choice, get the full benefit by being on grid and risk losing the ship or get a small bonus but not on grid and be safe.
In the thick of things?
The example was a 1v1 frigate fight. Not that thick.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 23:54:30 -
[186] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Lugia3 wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:I'm fine with OGB and I'll tell you why. To make a good booster takes a long time. It's not like banging out a gank alt on a trial. It's more than six months of focused min/max training to do one simple thing. To add on grid capabilities to that would be another number of months. So I feel there is enough of a penalty involved in training one that the balance is maintained. And as mentioned above, they can be probed down and easily blapped. Mr Epeen Frigate 1v1's. There is a brick tanked Damnation sitting on station boosting the Incursus you want to fight with your Rifter. Good luck. First off, that's a two on one. Secondly, your logistic alt will tip the scale in your favor. There's always a counter. On top of that, I'd guess that frigate 1v1s are about 1/100th of 1% of the battles taking place in New Eden at any given time. Really not worth calling for a mechanic makeover, in my opinion. Mr Epeen
Your post above. You mentioned logi. I responded including what you mentioned.
Moving on. The troll factor is thick in this one.
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2342
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 00:03:03 -
[187] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:
Your post above. You mentioned logi. I responded including what you mentioned.
Moving on. The troll factor is thick in this one.
You argue like those dingbats that believe vaccines cause autism. Anybody that presents a solid fact-based argument that discredits or contradicts your woo-spew is either "trolling" or someone "being paid to say that".
It doesn't work for them, and it won't work for you.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 00:10:45 -
[188] - Quote
"My booster alt cost me so much time and money. You can't take it away because this is the way eve was meant to be played."
QQ.
So much tears at the prospect of play to win instead of pay to win.
And I like to attach labels like 'crying, whining, tears, QQ' etc to draw attention from my gleeful exploitation of broken mechanics. |
Deltan Lilthanzarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 00:19:42 -
[189] - Quote
Ok, let's say for arguments sake that we remove off-grid boosting
You're flying in your ship looking for a good, fun fight and you find your target and engage. One or more of several things will probably happen:
1. A booster ship warps in on grid and starts boosting (probably about 250km away). Given the increased risk to the boosting ship they will likely bring support as well.
2. A second ship will warp in - perhaps a logi or maybe another combat ship (probably more than one ship).
3. The ship you attack will light its cyno and oops, hotdropped!
Now for scenario 2 where we remove boosting altogether and we see again the likelihood of scenarios 2 and/or 3 above playing out.
Boosting provides an edge and it can be quite significant. Implants and correct skill training also provide an edge as does scouting and intelligence gathering (arguably a bigger edge here as you can find out your opponents likely fits and fit your ship accordingly).
I would like to see OGB changed but not removed.
I suggest: 1. Remove the capacity for ships with a booster fitted to use a cloak - mutually exclusive technology perhaps. This will lessen the likelihood of being surprised by the particular 1 v 1+1 situation you are concerned about so you can choose your battles wisely
2. Limit the range of gang links to say 400 - 500KM so grid-fu can readily (even accidentally) expose the boosting ship to immediate danger as well as facilitating finding them by D-Scan rather than forcing solo PvPers to train scanning skills (still highly recommended!) This may encourage the booster to warp and if my point below happens - cool, no more links until they can get back to an appropriate location. You can probably blap your opponent in that time.
3. Gang links unable to be used while warping thus preventing using bookmarks to warp the booster around the action at about 400KM.
4. Links should appear on Killmails so that you can learn a bit more about why you died. That was a great idea!
This should alleviate most of your concerns, right? While still allowing boosting ships to have an illusion of safety.
In a game like Eve with the vast majority of players working together, solo PvP will ALWAYS be dangerous as you never know who has friends nearby. Try flying with friends regardless of what changes are/are not made.
Lastly, have a good think about the way you'd like to see the mechanics and put together a well thought out submission and post it here. CCP reads these suggestions and if your arguments are solid believe me they do take things on board and implement them. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4400
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 00:28:10 -
[190] - Quote
Removing off-grid boosting is technically challenging. CCP was last looking at it as a technical feasibility project.
CCP Fozzie wrote:When we have any timelines to report we'll report them, in the meantime all I can say is that it will happen sometime between now and the end of time. Very likely closer to now than to the end of time, but those things are hard to be certain about.
CCP Fozzie wrote:It's a performance optimization problem. We could turn on range-based boosting in Odyssey but it would melt all the servers.
And this isn't being delayed by Odyssey, the team working on the underlying code that will make ongrid boosting possible (along with many other things) isn't releasing anything in Odyssey. It's just that big of a project.
So like I said before, at some point CCP Veritas will make all my ganglink-related dreams come true but I honestly do not know when that point will be. When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
TIP: do an all-forum search and check the DEV box |
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Deck Cadelanne
Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts
88
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 00:39:14 -
[191] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote: Off-grid boosting should stay. Don't like it? Probe down the booster alt, and kill it.
It's annoying as hell when somebody you are trying to kill is doing it. It is very helpful when somebody is doing it for you. It is not risk free, it can be countered, it should stay in game.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 00:51:26 -
[192] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Syn Shi wrote:
Your post above. You mentioned logi. I responded including what you mentioned.
Moving on. The troll factor is thick in this one.
You argue like those dingbats that believe vaccines cause autism. Anybody that presents a solid fact-based argument that discredits or contradicts your woo-spew is either "trolling" or someone "being paid to say that". It doesn't work for them, and it won't work for you.
His counter argument where he mentioned logi and then followed up saying he didn't mention it followed by me showing exactly where he mentioned logi.
I provided the example/fact that he did mention logi.
You provided................ |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2372
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 01:25:49 -
[193] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:So in an MMO it makes perfect sense to you that one player sits in a safespot doing nothing? Do you seriously believe that having the link ship flown by a player, on grid, with end results depending on player skills, coordination and well timed actions wouldn't be better gameplay for everyone than simply activating links on an alt-tabbed alt? Alt play is the experience that CCP has created, and not the players. The near requirement for alts has been an issue since day one. Going after boosters alone, when there are so many other gameplay elements that benefit from alt usage, is downright hypocritical. Perhaps we should add a little mini-game that Orca pilots need to play in order to be able to shove the ore that the barges mine into their fleet hangars? Or force mission-runners to salvage the wrecks on their combat ships by not allowing anyone else to enter the mission zone, and destroying all wrecks the first time you warp out?
Let's not hold one activity to a double standard.
Aiyshimin wrote:It's a fact, one I've verified multiple times whenever probing has been changed by CCP. Perfect scanner with perfect gear and +6% strength implant can't get 100% on my Legion. Then maybe that's the issue that needs to be dealt with first, instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater as the first course of action.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
344
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 03:00:22 -
[194] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote: Boosting doesn't make you automatically win. You still have to put out effort, and you can still be overwhelmed, outmaneuvered, and outsmarted. Boosts just give you a little extra.
Your posts still smack of "I want it gone because I'm afraid of using it, and hate fighting it".
When two otherwise equal parties meets, the side with boosts will win. This is why links are so common. So what? It's ****** gameplay and closer to pay-to-win than any other mechanic in EVE. It would be more fun and interesting for all parties if receiving bonuses depended on an active human player making the right decisions in combat. See my suggestion earlier in this thread.
Eve is not a twitch game. The majority of the skill in eve comes about in figuring out when to engage. If you want a twitch game there are many games out there that will fit your needs.
And its only pay to win if you believe that having alts is pay to win.
Basically the problem here is that you are falling victim to your own hubris. You think oh there is a weak opponent and I can beat him - but you don't do your due diligence and get eaten by the guy you thought to eat. Its not the fault of the game but you that are to blame.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2343
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 03:40:28 -
[195] - Quote
Syn Shi wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Syn Shi wrote:
Your post above. You mentioned logi. I responded including what you mentioned.
Moving on. The troll factor is thick in this one.
You argue like those dingbats that believe vaccines cause autism. Anybody that presents a solid fact-based argument that discredits or contradicts your woo-spew is either "trolling" or someone "being paid to say that". It doesn't work for them, and it won't work for you. His counter argument where he mentioned logi and then followed up saying he didn't mention it followed by me showing exactly where he mentioned logi. I provided the example/fact that he did mention logi. You provided................
You and every other OGB detractor in this thread are making a habit out of moving the goalposts, setting up strawmen, and tossing red-herrings.
This argument is like a game of Calvinball. But, in the end, you're still wrong for a lot of reasons. Even if CCP decides to remove OGB, in the end, your reasons are still pretty much all crap. You don't want to level the playing field.... you want to remove something you're not good at just so nobody else can have it. That's pisspoor sportsmanship.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2376
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 03:46:49 -
[196] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:You and every other OGB detractor in this thread are making a habit out of moving the goalposts, setting up strawmen, and tossing red-herrings.
This argument is like a game of Calvinball. But, in the end, you're still wrong for a lot of reasons. Even if CCP decides to remove OGB, in the end, your reasons are still pretty much all crap. You don't want to level the playing field.... you want to remove something you're not good at just so nobody else can have it. That's pisspoor sportsmanship. That's how people are, unfortunately.
You know, before boosting became popular, people were making the very same arguments about Falcon usage. People were literally complaining that when they were fighting in a "1v1," the enemy would bring out a Falcon alt and make the fight unfair. They were asking for stuff like being unjammable in any "1v1" situation. I'm serious, they were really asking for that stuff, and used the same arguments you see here.
You know what people complained before Falcons rolled around? That people brought in alt combat ships in "1v1" situations. And I clearly remember ridiculous proposals like being unable to be damaged by more than one damage source at a time.
There will always be something these pros will complain about when the issue of fairness is discussed.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2345
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 03:51:29 -
[197] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:You and every other OGB detractor in this thread are making a habit out of moving the goalposts, setting up strawmen, and tossing red-herrings.
This argument is like a game of Calvinball. But, in the end, you're still wrong for a lot of reasons. Even if CCP decides to remove OGB, in the end, your reasons are still pretty much all crap. You don't want to level the playing field.... you want to remove something you're not good at just so nobody else can have it. That's pisspoor sportsmanship. That's how people are, unfortunately. You know, before boosting became popular, people were making the very same arguments about Falcon usage. People were literally complaining that when they were fighting in a "1v1," the enemy would bring out a Falcon alt and make the fight unfair. They were asking for stuff like being unjammable in any "1v1" situation. I'm serious, they were really asking for that stuff, and used the same arguments you see here. You know what people complained before Falcons rolled around? That people brought in alt combat ships in "1v1" situations. And I clearly remember ridiculous proposals like being unable to be damaged by more than one damage source at a time. There will always be something these pros will complain about when the issue of fairness is discussed.
Some of these Everyone-Gets-A-Trophy Generation kids just won't be happy until every combat ship is nerfed to oblivion, and it takes an hour to kill a T1 frigate.
I really think they're just mad because there are no cheat codes.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2376
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 03:54:45 -
[198] - Quote
They just want arenas. This new gaming generation wants "honorable" duels, and lots of grindy pve content. There's been a fundamental paradigm shift in gamer mentality after the XBox rolled around. But I digress, as this is getting a bit off-topic.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Charlie Firpol
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
281
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 04:11:55 -
[199] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:First off, that's a two on one. Secondly, your logistic alt will tip the scale in your favor. There's always a counter. On top of that, I'd guess that frigate 1v1s are about 1/100th of 1% of the battles taking place in New Eden at any given time. Really not worth calling for a mechanic makeover, in my opinion. Mr Epeen
While solo and small gang frigate pvp might be a small part of the grand total of the pvp going on in new eden, it is quite a big part of the action you get in lowsec.
With this information it shoudln-¦t be suprising to you that the vocal guys here are playing in that area of our sandbox. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2346
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 04:16:22 -
[200] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:They just want arenas. This new gaming generation wants "honorable" duels, and lots of grindy pve content. There's been a fundamental paradigm shift in gamer mentality after the XBox rolled around. But I digress, as this is getting a bit off-topic.
sandbox > arena, all day, every day, and twice on Sundays.
To anybody that wants arena and instanced-PvP: you're playing the wrong friggin game.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
|
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Shaleb Heworo
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 04:55:32 -
[201] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:They just want arenas. This new gaming generation wants "honorable" duels, and lots of grindy pve content. There's been a fundamental paradigm shift in gamer mentality after the XBox rolled around. But I digress, as this is getting a bit off-topic.
How are arenas the same as making the game more about actual skill? because that's what capsuleers who are against ogb essentially want: They want the game to be more about how you pilot your spaceship and less about invisible second account super powers.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2378
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 05:03:43 -
[202] - Quote
Shaleb Heworo wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:They just want arenas. This new gaming generation wants "honorable" duels, and lots of grindy pve content. There's been a fundamental paradigm shift in gamer mentality after the XBox rolled around. But I digress, as this is getting a bit off-topic. How are arenas the same as making the game more about actual skill? because that's what capsuleers who are against ogb essentially want: They want the game to be more about how you pilot your spaceship and less about invisible second account super powers. Think about what that desire entails at its very core: to circumvent EVE's open-ended nature, with all of the strategy, planning, and thinking associated with any action, and instead to force players into as homogenized, normalized of an environment as possible.
As I said before, this isn't a request to remove an undesired gameplay mechanic as much as it is a request to force players into fair fights, which can never happen without turning EVE into a wholly different game. Read my post on the last page for my description of what people complained about before boosting became a "thing." They're not complaining about boosting, but about 1vs2. It's as simple as that.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
279
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 05:25:38 -
[203] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote: Boosting doesn't make you automatically win. You still have to put out effort, and you can still be overwhelmed, outmaneuvered, and outsmarted. Boosts just give you a little extra.
Your posts still smack of "I want it gone because I'm afraid of using it, and hate fighting it".
When two otherwise equal parties meets, the side with boosts will win. This is why links are so common. So what? It's ****** gameplay and closer to pay-to-win than any other mechanic in EVE. It would be more fun and interesting for all parties if receiving bonuses depended on an active human player making the right decisions in combat. See my suggestion earlier in this thread. When two otherwise equal parties meet and one has an advantage, the side with that advantage will win. Boosts are not unique in this regard.
Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
6882
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 05:47:43 -
[204] - Quote
Shaleb Heworo wrote: How are arenas the same as making the game more about actual skill?
I've heard that. I've often seen EVE compared to Chess as opposed to something like..say...pin the purple ***** on Jesus.
In Chess you often end up in a situation where a piece is being covered by another. If you are blissfully unaware of what's on the board and take it, you lose your queen. Much the same as having your ship being covered (boosted in this example) by another. If you are situationally blind and attack that ship, you are at a disadvantage.
So it seems to me that playing with OGB requires much more actual skill than just running up and bitchslapping each other until one blows up.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 05:53:43 -
[205] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Shaleb Heworo wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:They just want arenas. This new gaming generation wants "honorable" duels, and lots of grindy pve content. There's been a fundamental paradigm shift in gamer mentality after the XBox rolled around. But I digress, as this is getting a bit off-topic. How are arenas the same as making the game more about actual skill? because that's what capsuleers who are against ogb essentially want: They want the game to be more about how you pilot your spaceship and less about invisible second account super powers. Think about what that desire entails at its very core: to circumvent EVE's open-ended nature, with all of the strategy, planning, and thinking associated with any action, and instead to force players into as homogenized, normalized of an environment as possible. As I said before, this isn't a request to remove an undesired gameplay mechanic as much as it is a request to force players into fair fights, which can never happen without turning EVE into a wholly different game. Read my post on the last page for my description of what people complained about before boosting became a "thing." They're not complaining about boosting, but about 1vs2. It's as simple as that.
Tell me more about how much strategy, planning, and skill is necessary to tote a cloaky booster alt around fw space whilst occasionally hitting f1. |
Shaleb Heworo
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 05:55:03 -
[206] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Shaleb Heworo wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:They just want arenas. This new gaming generation wants "honorable" duels, and lots of grindy pve content. There's been a fundamental paradigm shift in gamer mentality after the XBox rolled around. But I digress, as this is getting a bit off-topic. How are arenas the same as making the game more about actual skill? because that's what capsuleers who are against ogb essentially want: They want the game to be more about how you pilot your spaceship and less about invisible second account super powers. Think about what that desire entails at its very core: to circumvent EVE's open-ended nature, with all of the strategy, planning, and thinking associated with any action, and instead to force players into as homogenized, normalized of an environment as possible. As I said before, this isn't a request to remove an undesired gameplay mechanic as much as it is a request to force players into fair fights, which can never happen without turning EVE into a wholly different game. Read my post on the last page for my description of what people complained about before boosting became a "thing." They're not complaining about boosting, but about 1vs2. It's as simple as that.
I think you really misunderstand the oponents of ogb. As far as i know many of them fight gangs/superior hulls all the time. In fact it's these "unfair" fights which are the most fun for many pilots because it' gratifying beat the odds by tactical means. That's one core motivation not only in Eve but in any any tactical game. The problem with ogb is that there is no tactical counter because the booster is... well off grid. Often you will notice the booster when your kiting ship gets webbed at 18km by an 7m isk incursus. You write about homogenization but removing ogb would in fact put more emphasis on tactical piloting skills and fitting strategy. Capsuleers will actually be forced to think harder and fly better to catch that kiter instead of relying on their second account which boosts every hull from rookie ship to t3 with the same abilities. Therefore your whole argument about normalization and homogenization is imo really misleading. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2349
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Posted - 2014.12.05 06:02:10 -
[207] - Quote
Shaleb Heworo wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:They just want arenas. This new gaming generation wants "honorable" duels, and lots of grindy pve content. There's been a fundamental paradigm shift in gamer mentality after the XBox rolled around. But I digress, as this is getting a bit off-topic. How are arenas the same as making the game more about actual skill? because that's what capsuleers who are against ogb essentially want: They want the game to be more about how you pilot your spaceship and less about invisible second account super powers.
What part of "EVE is not a twitch game" are you not understanding?
There are many different kinds of skills. In EVE, your skill in combat is in how you fit your ship and how you take best advantage of your resources. You don't actually pilot your ship. You command it. Therefore, everything that goes into direct combat is centered around how you command your ship.
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
2349
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 06:07:59 -
[208] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Tell me more about how much strategy, planning, and skill is necessary to tote a cloaky booster alt around fw space whilst occasionally hitting f1.
The inferior player's go-to insult.... "how much skill can it take to press F1?" Well, if it was so friggin easy to win, why do you lose ships so often?
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2381
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Posted - 2014.12.05 06:08:21 -
[209] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Tell me more about how much strategy, planning, and skill is necessary to tote a cloaky booster alt around fw space whilst occasionally hitting f1. Not any more or less than is required to tote around an alternate character of any kind if you're facing only one target.
Shaleb Heworo wrote:The problem with ogb is that there is no tactical counter because the booster is... well off grid. What.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Shaleb Heworo
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2014.12.05 06:31:31 -
[210] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Shaleb Heworo wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:They just want arenas. This new gaming generation wants "honorable" duels, and lots of grindy pve content. There's been a fundamental paradigm shift in gamer mentality after the XBox rolled around. But I digress, as this is getting a bit off-topic. How are arenas the same as making the game more about actual skill? because that's what capsuleers who are against ogb essentially want: They want the game to be more about how you pilot your spaceship and less about invisible second account super powers. What part of "EVE is not a twitch game" are you not understanding? There are many different kinds of skills. In EVE, your skill in combat is in how you fit your ship and how you take best advantage of your resources. You don't actually pilot your ship. You command it. Therefore, everything that goes into direct combat is centered around how you command your ship.
In all honesty: That might be the reason why you don't understand how broken ogb is: You don't pilot your ship. You see the strategic aspect only. Pilots in solo/small gang pvp have to rely on spaceship piloting tactics like kiting or slingshots and for reasons already stated that's exactly where obg becomes a problem. You on the other hand try to negate that problem by defining eve as a game of grand strategy where the opinion of those who focus on fast paced solo/small gang pvp can be disregarded because afterall it's just those players who play the wrong game. The truth is that both aspects are a part of eve and therefore you should listen to the players who have a problem in their part of the sandbox. |
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