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EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:06:00 -
[1]
It has come to my attention that "Rast" has retaken control of EIBI/EIB and Kal D'Vogh has funneled EIB/EIBI/UEMA assets through Kal D'Vogh and Veleena.
I had hopes for Kal and EIB/EIBI, especially since they reimbursed me (partly).
I am not sure if Kal lost control of his alt and who is lying at the moment. And frankly I am fed up with it.
I have been in contact with Rast and his 'friends' a bit over the last few weeks. And a lot of those conversations turned out to be lies.
In the context of "keep your friends close but your enemies closer" I have even been in talks with Rast about him reimbursing everyone and in exchange being allowed to invest a great sum into one of my corporations. Sort of a penance for what he has done. Unfortunately this turns out to be all lies as well.
Information passed to me by one of Rast's closests friends, Shinnen (a cloggie living in england who speaks dutch), made me lose total hope of anyone being able to get anything reimbursed from the EIB/EIBI.
Which means, I have no reason anymore to keep anything under wraps anymore.
Full accounts will be disclosed and all questions will be answered truthfully by me.
Only thing I won't disclose yet (before I speak with the accused) is the Main character of Kal D'Vogh, since I haven't had 100% independant confirmation of his involvement in this latest phase. And this only out of respect for the reimbursement he gave EMFi which he didn't have to do if he was going to run. Kal has until this weekend to contact me about this or come forward himself in this thread before I will disclose his main characters.
As for myself, the last few months have been very tiresome, months of intrigue, subterfuge, bluffs and counterbluffs... the web of lies has been as thick as peter's skull. I can still look myself in the eye and know I have done everything in the best interest of EvE, the Market community and my shareholders. The only one that lost due to my actions was myself.
I have spent way too much time on this... more then a RL job doing research, I have learned a great deal and gained a lot of paranoia and skepticism.
Anyways, Fire away with teh questions about EMFI, EIB, EIBI, The Audit, Rast, Investing, and freak bus accidents.. I have about 5000 files of data and information to sift through, but I will do my best to answer any question as truthfully as possible.
Please keep this thread free of bad language or references to RL or anything against the UELA to prevent the locking of this thread. also please don't ask me to state anything about anyone breaking any UELA rules or anything I know of GM actions becuase I won't comment on them in this thread.
.... Regards, EMFI.... ....... Ready to close a chapter. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Taurequis on 07/09/2006 00:19:57 Hi,
Do you have any record of any of these mysterious alliance investors that alledgely make up the vast majority of the scamed isk Rast is so reluctant to name?
Taur
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:19:00 -
[3]
Hi,
Was Luna Spira and that freighter that got blown up the other day one of Cally's alts?
I hope so.
Taur
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:21:00 -
[4]
Hi,
In your honest insider view what do you recon the real scam "score" is?
I think it is less then 200 bil....
Taur
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EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Taurequis Edited by: Taurequis on 07/09/2006 00:19:57 Hi,
Do you have any record of any of these mysterious alliance investors that alledgely make up the vast majority of the scamed isk Rast is so reluctant to name?
Taur
no record at all. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Taurequis Hi,
Was Luna Spira and that freighter that got blown up the other day one of Cally's alts?
I hope so.
Taur
Luna Spira, afaik is controlled by a seperate individual (not confirmed)
The freighter alt (Stuu) was a ***** account to which a **** people had access, most likely Rast wasn't piloting it at that time. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.09.07 00:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Taurequis Hi,
In your honest insider view what do you recon the real scam "score" is?
I think it is less then 200 bil....
Taur
Including the latest scraps (which are still being scammed today) the 'score' of the scam is in my opinion aprox 120-160b (including UEMA)
The rest are old assets of Cally/Rast and/or profits made by the bank.
There could also be aproximately 20-50b of illegitimate profits from sales of non-public EIBI and UEMA shares.
I recommend freezing of EIBI/UEMA trades on EGSEX ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
Treelox
Amarr Storm Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:44:00 -
[8]
will you ever do this auditing thing for another corp thats not a part of the emfi family again?
Also what are the most important lessons you learned from this whole afair? Would you care to share those?
In your opinion was Mung, of UEMA, in bed with cally. Was Mung scamming us aswell?
Besides considerations in recieving a partial refund to the EMFI fund, something that had first been arranged when you took the audti job on, back in june, did EMFI, any EMFI toon, or any other toons owned by Naph recieve any form of renumeration?
------- My sig seemed to disapper, let me try again... |
EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Treelox will you ever do this auditing thing for another corp thats not a part of the emfi family again?
Yes, but there will be changes to the process and terms (+ a salary)
Originally by: Treelox
Also what are the most important lessons you learned from this whole afair? Would you care to share those?
Too many lessons to list. But most importantly to make clear agreements before hand on the form and timeframe of the audit that cover both the events of a clean corp and a dirty corp.
Originally by: Treelox
In your opinion was Mung, of UEMA, in bed with cally. Was Mung scamming us aswell?
I am 99% sure that Mung wasn't in bed with Cally. I don't think he was outright scamming, but I don't think he was a good public CEO and lost (some) of the investors isk.
Originally by: Treelox
Besides considerations in recieving a partial refund to the EMFI fund, something that had first been arranged when you took the audti job on, back in june, did EMFI, any EMFI toon, or any other toons owned by Naph recieve any form of renumeration?
Someone xferred me 1mil isk "for my troubles" which I entered on the EMFI books as an audit fee. Besides this donation I received no renumeration of any sort.
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"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
Baun
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.09.07 00:58:00 -
[10]
My biggest question (and the first of many reasons I invested no money into this except that which EMFI invested for me) is how exactly the bank purportedly made money and to what extent that bank actually did these things.
Did the bank purchase BPOs with account money and pay interest on the accounts using profits?
Did the bank pursue other marketing activites with the money in order to generate the returns it showed?
Or was the bank almost exclusively operated as a pyramid scheme?
Finally is it your opinion that the screenshot was faked and the damages are considerably less significant than we have been lead to believe?
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Dagam
Dagam Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.07 01:00:00 -
[11]
What sort of promises did Rast make to you that he didn't keep?
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EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.07 01:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Baun My biggest question (and the first of many reasons I invested no money into this except that which EMFI invested for me) is how exactly the bank purportedly made money and to what extent that bank actually did these things.
This question was answered on my previous post, to the extend that teh auditor never got access to the information that would be able to verify the banks claims.
The alledged ways they made isk are published by Rast, Kal and myself mostly. Yes they had BPOs, Most was made by giving Directors 50b to "play the market with".
Quote: Did the bank purchase BPOs with account money and pay interest on the accounts using profits?
Alledgedly yes, I have seen BPO's (quite a few, most unresearched) but never got eyes on the wallet where these profits were gathered.
Quote: Did the bank pursue other marketing activites with the money in order to generate the returns it showed?
According to claims, yes. mostly market manipulation.
Quote: Or was the bank almost exclusively operated as a pyramid scheme?
Didn't get ennough access to information to verify this. However it seemed the bank did make indeed isk, and if Rast is indeed worth 800b and only stole 200b that 600b had to come from somewhere.
Quote: Finally is it your opinion that the screenshot was faked and the damages are considerably less significant than we have been lead to believe?
The screenshot was old and fake. I answered in a previous question about my estimate of the damages. I also think that Rast does have more isk (and assets) then what he stole. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.09.07 01:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dagam What sort of promises did Rast make to you that he didn't keep?
Rast or Rast/Cally? don't know where to start. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.07 01:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Baun My biggest question
Just to add... I don't think that the isk from accounts was able to generate the profits to cover the interest... However I do think that the total net worth of Rast was able to do so. But who knows what that worth really is/was. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.07 01:31:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/09/2006 01:35:18
Do you think Rast ever intended to reimburse the money as he promised?
If not, did he intend to simply, openly not do it, or to blame one of his alts and claim that alt stole the money?
Thank you EMFI: the EIBI is dead, it is time to tell the whole story, and your disclosure is very helpful and encouraging.
By the way, since everyone went "I Told You So!" to me when EIBI turned out to be a scam, its now time for my response with regards to Dentara's claim of "790 billion ISK stolen":
I TOLD YOU SO!
I guessed an absolute maximum of 200 billion stolen assuming he did not reimburse investors as promised. I guessed a maximum of 50-100 billion if he did. Sounds right to me .
As people have said, the biggest scam of EIBI was Dentara's lie about how much he stole.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.07 01:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Do you think Rast ever intended to reimburse the money as he promised?
In retrospect, not really, but don't knwo what to believe.
Quote: If not, did he intend to simply, openly not do it, or to blame one of his alts and claim that alt stole the money?
I think he hoped to corrupt me to a point where I didn't care.. (everyone has his price)
------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
Godagast Goudiyah
Amarr Templarii Holdings
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Posted - 2006.09.07 03:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Godagast Goudiyah on 07/09/2006 03:32:47
Originally by: EMFI Auditor I can still look myself in the eye and know I have done everything in the best interest of EvE, the Market community and my shareholders. The only one that lost due to my actions was myself.
That is a pretty bold statement coming from someone who was supposed to audit EIB, and throughout all the months of doing so was taken in by Cally's / Rast's deceptions and lies. The forums here were full of "reports" about the ongoing audit, which really didn't say very much - mostly that "work was being done", and that "full results would be published once the audit is complete". Which, of course, took longer and longer and longer as the scammer successfully pulled the wool over your eyes. Bus crashes, prison time, drug overdose... What a riot!
In any case, you failed to warn the investors and the general public in time that something might be wrong.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but the truth is: if anything, the EIB scandal was a consummate embarassment for all the self-proclaimed "experts" and market watchdogs out there. Actually, if I had lost money, I'd probably be angrier about them than about the scammer. Cally was pulling off a heist - fair enough, that's what criminals do. And he succeeded, even though it was probably nowhere near the scale he claims, and even though all his narcisstic self-promotion has made him an embarassment in his own right.
The "auditors", on the other hand, just failed. They had a job, namely, to check the legitimacy of EIB and to spot a potential scam. And they blew it, pure and simple.
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Treelox
Amarr Storm Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.07 03:45:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Treelox on 07/09/2006 03:45:42
Originally by: Godagast Goudiyah
The "auditors", on the other hand, just failed. They had a job, namely, to check the legitimacy of EIB and to spot a potential scam. And they blew it, pure and simple.
along this path of auditing, the auditors never failed to do their job. They were never allowed to do their job. Complete access to books were never given.
Originally by: Godagast Goudiyah The forums here were full of "reports" about the ongoing audit, which really didn't say very much - mostly that "work was being done", and that "full results would be published once the audit is complete"
The ambiguity of the auditor "update" post during the audit, to me was a great warning sign of possible troubles in EIB/EIBI/UEMA situation. Maybe others took the "no news as good news" approach, I took it as a sign to reduce my position of investment, which i did.
BTW the post by the OP is the "full results" post, saying that the whole situation is "full of scat". ------- My sig seemed to disapper, let me try again... |
Godagast Goudiyah
Amarr Templarii Holdings
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Posted - 2006.09.07 04:05:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Godagast Goudiyah on 07/09/2006 04:08:57 Edited by: Godagast Goudiyah on 07/09/2006 04:05:41
Originally by: Treelox along this path of auditing, the auditors never failed to do their job. They were never allowed to do their job. Complete access to books were never given.
If you're auditing a corporation for several weeks, even months, and access to the full records is being denied to you with one strange excuse after another, wouldn't you start to get a pretty clear idea of what is actually going on there?
A competent auditor would either yell "Scam!" right away, or, being more cautious, he would at least advise people against investing more with the corporation in question for the time being (until the records are submitted and checked as legitimate).
Quote: The ambiguity of the auditor "update" post during the audit, to me was a great warning sign of possible troubles in EIB/EIBI/UEMA situation. Maybe others took the "no news as good news" approach, I took it as a sign to reduce my position of investment, which i did.
Good for you. But it is not the job of an auditor to be ambiguous - he has to be clear and concise. And when the situation as such is ambiguous, he should take that as a sign that something may very well be wrong. A legit business will always practice transparency, and won't take weeks to respond to requests after "agreeing" to an audit.
What happened is that Cally was given the benefit of the doubt. That may be a nice thing to do in a one-on-one situation, but the job of the audit was to protect the *investors*, not the bank. In light of the fact that it was *their* money, which *they* were in danger of losing, the benefit of doubt should have tilted towards: "Maybe it is a scam after all."
Quote: BTW the post by the OP is the "full results" post, saying that the whole situation is "full of scat".
Here's the bad news, sports viewers: it's a little late for that.
But fair enough, better late than never.
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Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.07 04:57:00 -
[20]
Should you and the Dark Shikaris and Ricdics of the world have been a little less condescending to people who were skeptical about all this from the start?
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Treelox
Amarr Storm Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.07 05:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Godagast Goudiyah
Look 2 post up
Godafast I understand where you are coming from, but ultimatly I dont want people telling me if I should or shouldnt invest. I want unbaised presentation of the facts, something that an auditor is supposed to do. The facts were never available for the auditor to do this, the auditor continued to tell us that the audit had failed. Is it not really the job of the investor to decied what to do with the information from an auditor.
Originally by: Godagast Goudiyah Here's the bad news, sports viewers: it's a little late for that. But fair enough, better late than never.
So a resounding success of an audit, NOT. Of course as to my intial post in the thread, asking EMFI a question or two. EMFI states that next time there will be a time limit, something unfortunetly to our loss and EMFI's regret there was not present in the EIB audit agreement. ------- My sig seemed to disapper, let me try again... |
Treelox
Amarr Storm Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.07 05:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rthor Should you and the Dark Shikaris and Ricdics of the world have been a little less condescending to people who were skeptical about all this from the start?
Im condescending to everyone who makes allegations without proof, kind of a human trait. How about you?
Honestly, I dont understand why anyone trys to allocate blame on the detriment of their investment but themselves and maybe the perpitrator of the embezlement/scam. Its your isk, its your investment, its your decision, its your job to stay on top of your investments activities. ------- My sig seemed to disapper, let me try again... |
Pizi
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.09.07 06:55:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Pizi on 07/09/2006 06:57:04
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/09/2006 01:35:18
...............
I TOLD YOU SO!
................ As people have said, the biggest scam of EIBI was Dentara's lie about how much he stole.
not to defend him but he didnt claim to get the 800 from EIB/EIBI
he always said most money came from "alliances"
__________________________________________________ EVEpedia [Deutsch/German]
Say no to BMs |
Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2006.09.07 07:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Pizi Edited by: Pizi on 07/09/2006 06:57:04
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/09/2006 01:35:18
...............
I TOLD YOU SO!
................ As people have said, the biggest scam of EIBI was Dentara's lie about how much he stole.
not to defend him but he didnt claim to get the 800 from EIB/EIBI
he always said most money came from "alliances"
Which is the bit that still baffles me, why alliances need/want/would give their cash away to someone else for interest/banking purpose's when they could have ploughed thwe alledged billions into worthly projects for their members. Like outposts (350 bil = 10 or more) or tech 2 bpo's. Most alliances with surplus cash that I know have an industrial bankbone which generates its own income. Surplus cash would go on those projects not to some individual bloke trying to give you a ****y 8% interest.
Taur
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bucoll
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Posted - 2006.09.07 08:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Taurequis
Originally by: Pizi Edited by: Pizi on 07/09/2006 06:57:04
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/09/2006 01:35:18
...............
I TOLD YOU SO!
................ As people have said, the biggest scam of EIBI was Dentara's lie about how much he stole.
not to defend him but he didnt claim to get the 800 from EIB/EIBI
he always said most money came from "alliances"
Which is the bit that still baffles me, why alliances need/want/would give their cash away to someone else for interest/banking purpose's when they could have ploughed thwe alledged billions into worthly projects for their members. Like outposts (350 bil = 10 or more) or tech 2 bpo's. Most alliances with surplus cash that I know have an industrial bankbone which generates its own income. Surplus cash would go on those projects not to some individual bloke trying to give you a ****y 8% interest.
Taur
Rast is a liar and has a serious epeen superiority complex. That 800b is probably more like 80b. As someone has already stated, Rast's biggest "scam" was convincing people that he'd stole as much as he claimed. I highly doubt any major alliance had any dealings with eib because of the reasons you've stated. Coupled with the fact that Rast has yet to provide names of these so called alliances and proof of what they lost to him leaves me to believe he's just doing what he does best.... lie about it.
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EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.07 08:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Godagast Goudiyah In any case, you failed to warn the investors and the general public in time that something might be wrong.
The warnings were there, the only thing that happened is that people were able to withdraw for 2 months extra. There was 10's of bils of withdrawals during the audit. Remember, the isk was already 'gone' when the audit started, I only know of 1 person that invested (significantly) more into EIB during the audit, the rest of the people were able to read the results. If you had invested you would have been grateful for the opportunity to withdraw instead of me interpreting the facts for you and creating the scam.
Anyways, I didn't read any question in your post so I think you are only posting to make yourself look better. If you have a question please ask it and I will answer. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.09.07 08:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Godagast Goudiyah but the job of the audit was to protect the *investors*, not the bank. In light of the fact that it was *their* money, which *they* were in danger of losing, the benefit of doubt should have tilted towards: "Maybe it is a scam after all."
The audit at every step of the way was to protect the investors and not the bank. Every action I have taken has been in the interest of the investors. Rast at many occasions (f.ex in teh eve-nn interview and on this eve-o forum) has admitted that if I had acted differently the bank/cally would have been 100's of bil richer and the investors 100's of bil poorer.
PS: please formulate your questions in question-format. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
EMFI Auditor
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.09.07 08:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Treelox
So a resounding success of an audit, NOT. Of course as to my intial post in the thread, asking EMFI a question or two. EMFI states that next time there will be a time limit, something unfortunetly to our loss and EMFI's regret there was not present in the EIB audit agreement.
If such an agreement were in place, I could have closed the audit after 2 weeks stating: "not ennough access has been granted due to alledged RL difficulties to finish the audit in time. And now it is closed"
I will leave to the reader to decide how history would have unfolded in such a case. ------------------------------------------
"The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts."
-- Naphtalia 2006 |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.07 09:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: EMFI Auditor
I have spent way too much time on this... more then a RL job doing research, I have learned a great deal and gained a lot of paranoia and skepticism.
/me munches popcorns.
Oh, the drama, "Only the paranoid survives!" --------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is the kindest of all. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.07 09:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Pizi
Originally by: Dark Shikari
...............
I TOLD YOU SO!
................ As people have said, the biggest scam of EIBI was Dentara's lie about how much he stole.
not to defend him but he didnt claim to get the 800 from EIB/EIBI
he always said most money came from "alliances"
I think he claimed he got 800b from alliances that invested in EIB.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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