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AWOX Removal Alternative: Corporate Setting

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Throwaway Sam Atild Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2014.12.09 01:03:32 - [1] - Quote It saddens me that (correct me if I'm wrong) AWOX mechanics are getting pulled from the game. I think that the constant threat of intruders into a HS indy corp (like mine) made things more interesting. However if it has to go, I'd provide this as an alternative. Allow CEO's to toggle whether or not there are Concord reprisals within their corporation. This would be tied to a 24 hour timer so that evil CEO's can't surprise members and reverse AWOX them. However, allowing the option to turn off the concord response allows HS corps to practice PVP amongst themselves which would be fantastic for groups like RVB, or anyone who likes to mix it up within their own corp for whatever reason.
Eldwinn SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel 148	Posted - 2014.12.09 01:10:37 - [2] - Quote Wut. I believe this mechanic exists in the form of a duel, null sec and low sec.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 701	Posted - 2014.12.09 01:40:25 - [3] - Quote Yeah, I don't know what makes me think this, but I'm pretty sure no CEO would turn on AWOXing for their corp, no matter how evil they are. Even the most elite of elite don't like getting blown up when they can't fight back(mining as an example).... Don't let them try to tell you otherwise..
Throwaway Sam Atild Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2014.12.09 01:55:07 - [4] - Quote Completely valid point that dueling is an existing mechanic, but adds a lot of extra clicks. Also valid that 95% may have the preference for no AWOXing. However I personally would find utility in the ability to adjust the status, as it can make training traditionally high-sec folks in PVP more difficult. It'd be my opinion that if the option can be included without much fuss, some may find it useful. If it'd take a lot of extra programming hours, obviously not a very high priority feature.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 626	Posted - 2014.12.09 01:57:08 - [5] - Quote Well when they remove awoxing it will just cease to be a thing I will care about. Because I won't be playing eve as of that moment. Just saying. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Kaarous Aldurald Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10796	Posted - 2014.12.09 01:58:54 - [6] - Quote Alongside the point of, if you use this feature, your corp pays NPC corp taxes on all their transactions. If people are going to act like they're in an NPC corp, they should get the negatives along with the positives. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Throwaway Sam Atild Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2014.12.09 02:03:33 - [7] - Quote Well, my idea isn't for a feature to turn off AWOXing. I'm personally a fan of AWOXing. However my understanding is that shutting off AWOXing is in the pipes. I'd just like to preserve the ability to fight and train within my corp without opening 50 duels.
Foxicity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 28	Posted - 2014.12.09 02:27:39 - [8] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Yeah, I don't know what makes me think this, but I'm pretty sure no CEO would turn on AWOXing for their corp, no matter how evil they are. Even the most elite of elite don't like getting blown up when they can't fight back(mining as an example).... Don't let them try to tell you otherwise.. You underestimate the evil some of us are capable of. I know some people who will be very disappointed if there's no option to turn on AWOXing.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1755	Posted - 2014.12.09 02:58:36 - [9] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Yeah, I don't know what makes me think this, but I'm pretty sure no CEO would turn on AWOXing for their corp, no matter how evil they are. Even the most elite of elite don't like getting blown up when they can't fight back(mining as an example).... Don't let them try to tell you otherwise.. Given reverse awoxing recruitment scams exist whereby CEO's invite people into the corp so they can gank them...... Pretty sure some would. And those are typically the scummiest of awox'ers as most of their victims are newer players who don't know any better. Frankly, the mechanic is outdated and should be removed entirely. You can still pull off cunning ganks by talking them into a duel, or going suspect, or going to low sec with you or giving you their ship to haul in your bowhead, or or or...... The removal of inside corp concord free aggression is not the end of Awoxing basically. It's only the removal of a poor mechanic that is inconsistent with the rest of EVE's rules. Complexity is not always good. And this is bad complexity.
Hopelesshobo Tactical Nuclear Penguin's 365	Posted - 2014.12.09 10:44:40 - [10] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: Well when they remove awoxing it will just cease to be a thing I will care about. Because I won't be playing eve as of that moment. Just saying. Can I have your stuff then? Just saying. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Gawain Edmond Angry Mustellid The Periphery 148	Posted - 2014.12.09 11:30:22 - [11] - Quote Throwaway Sam Atild wrote: It saddens me that (correct me if I'm wrong) AWOX mechanics are getting pulled from the game. I think that the constant threat of intruders into a HS indy corp (like mine) made things more interesting. However if it has to go, I'd provide this as an alternative. Allow CEO's to toggle whether or not there are Concord reprisals within their corporation. This would be tied to a 24 hour timer so that evil CEO's can't surprise members and reverse AWOX them. However, allowing the option to turn off the concord response allows HS corps to practice PVP amongst themselves which would be fantastic for groups like RVB, or anyone who likes to mix it up within their own corp for whatever reason. I'm 99% sure that awoxing isn't being removed from the game though a source wouldn't go amiss if you've read it somewhere but if they did remove it from the game then the only thing that would replace it would be suicide ganking.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 813	Posted - 2014.12.09 11:36:21 - [12] - Quote Why would they remove AWOXing? Corporate espionage is perfectly valid I would have thought?
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 237	Posted - 2014.12.09 12:01:48 - [13] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Why would they remove AWOXing? Corporate espionage is perfectly valid I would have thought? One would think. If you read the CSM minutes it was felt that the mechanic is "counter-intuitive" and somehow hurts new players. I see no reason why this arbitrary mechanic is any more confusing than the rest of the highsec aggression mechanics, and it serves a useful purpose in training and sparring that cannot be replaced easily by the current duel mechanic. Further, awoxing is only a problem for established players with assets running the corporation, not a new player who doesn't even know what the aggression mechanics are, nor have any assets of note to lose, so I don't see this having any affect on "keeping" new players. Still, they said they wanted to change it by "the end of the year" and it appears to not be in Rhea so perhaps cooler heads have prevailed and have noticed that there is minimal benefit to this change at a significant cost to current gameplay. Maybe it won't happen at all. Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 636	Posted - 2014.12.22 04:08:03 - [14] - Quote The "confirmation" seems to be in the devblog announcing proteus changes. I hope awoxing will instead trigger suspect flag so as to give a major disadvantage to awoxer. Removing awoxing would go against everything eve is and has been. CCP advertise this aspect of game, I don't know what happens when they remove that very sandbox element that distinguishes it from mainstream MMOs. Holding my subs for now... EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Qn'qura Zalas Zula Aeon Ascendant 1	Posted - 2014.12.22 04:59:32 - [15] - Quote I'd have to be wary of that going live, i'd hate to get slapped by concord just for webslinging a heavy ship.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo The Happy Meal 151	Posted - 2014.12.22 05:49:47 - [16] - Quote The worst repercussion of the removal of AWOX will not be the inability for the odd person to infiltrate a corp of carebears and shoot them. It's biggest affects will be seen in corps like RvB which rely on intracorp aggression for the enjoyment of hundreds of players. I don't support removing AWOXing from corps, but if they do the OP's suggestion is vital. With that said, it's silly to threaten unsubbing over this. You are a seriously boring player if you can't find ways to enjoy the game without shooting new/bad PVE players in high-sec. I understand the idea of trying to prove a point, but it's wishful thinking to hope this will be another Incarna. You aren't going to have hundreds of players proving that point with you. ~ Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2095	Posted - 2014.12.22 06:43:46 - [17] - Quote I vote we keep the AWOKing mechanic and continue to allow carebears to join NPC corps. With high tax rates. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
Esmanpir Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 12	Posted - 2014.12.22 13:57:17 - [18] - Quote Throwaway Sam Atild wrote: Well, my idea isn't for a feature to turn off AWOXing. I'm personally a fan of AWOXing. However my understanding is that shutting off AWOXing is in the pipes. I'd just like to preserve the ability to fight and train within my corp without opening 50 duels. It should be a setting on the character, not the corp and have a timer (say 1 hour). That way you can train without opening 50 duels.
Khador Vess Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 219	Posted - 2014.12.22 16:51:19 - [19] - Quote You are spot on that this affects balancing for organisations like RvB. We will quite often share pilots when arranging fights, we quite often hold FFA's and the idea of opening and maintaining 50 or 60 duels to be able to run an FFA makes me shudder. Even so i still think that to make the newbro experience better that something has to change. Joining a corp and then having all your worldly stuff exploded because of an un-intuitive mechanic isnt really cool. The idea of making this a selectable corp option to me has appeal, as long as its something that you can filter in the corp search when looking for corps to apply to. If you change this it takes 24 hours to take effect and you get an eve mail letting you know its been changed (on or off). This way its a choice, players can still screw up by not filtering in corp PvP flagged organisations, they can join and have it changed while they are away and not read mails... there is scope for mistakes to be made without it being a complete turkey shoot. I used to have a forum sig, but CCP SocksFour stole it....
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 638	Posted - 2014.12.23 03:16:32 - [20] - Quote McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: The worst repercussion of the removal of AWOX will not be the inability for the odd person to infiltrate a corp of carebears and shoot them. It's biggest affects will be seen in corps like RvB which rely on intracorp aggression for the enjoyment of hundreds of players. I don't support removing AWOXing from corps, but if they do the OP's suggestion is vital. With that said, it's silly to threaten unsubbing over this. You are a seriously boring player if you can't find ways to enjoy the game without shooting new/bad PVE players in high-sec. I understand the idea of trying to prove a point, but it's wishful thinking to hope this will be another Incarna. You aren't going to have hundreds of players proving that point with you. Yeah it's silly to draw the line somewhere after more than 50 nerfs to my past styles of gameplay and increasingly narrowed field of gameplay. This adds no content to the game and removes a ton. And all it achieves is make eve more mainstream. GO SPACE WOW cough hello kitty online in SPACE!! EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Victoria Ramsay Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.12.23 03:30:50 - [21] - Quote What is this, ***** runescape? If CCP wants to make EVE into a game for 12 year olds they can remove awoxing - and along with it, their core player base as well. -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1!!! A note to CCP: Along with the removal of skill point loss.....talks about making disposable clones with throwaway SP..... Stop trying to make eve softer.**
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2069	Posted - 2014.12.23 04:02:23 - [22] - Quote It would truly suck if AWOXing were to go. Letting players have an entirely separate type of corp to chose from with less benefits and less risks would be better. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2116	Posted - 2014.12.23 04:12:28 - [23] - Quote Perhaps there should be a feature that alerts anyone joining a corp as to whether or not any existing corp members have ever AWOXed, and how many times they have. That way if you are inviting a newb for the purpose of AWOXing them, you at least have to try to hide the fact. Most corps promptly boot AWOXers and so won't ping at all. note: it should only count as an AWOX against the corp if the victim reports it by pressing a "that was an AWOX" button in their combat log. Friendly corp duels should not flag them for AWOXing. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) "What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2630	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:05:27 - [24] - Quote So I hate to be that guy but, Anyone have a link to CCP's statement confirming that they plan to do this, or is this thread just rumor mongering.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1819	Posted - 2014.12.23 05:35:34 - [25] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: The "confirmation" seems to be in the devblog announcing proteus changes. I hope awoxing will instead trigger suspect flag so as to give a major disadvantage to awoxer. Removing awoxing would go against everything eve is and has been. CCP advertise this aspect of game, I don't know what happens when they remove that very sandbox element that distinguishes it from mainstream MMOs. Holding my subs for now... Except A: Suspect flag is meaningless most of the time. I go suspect in mining belts in a retriever and stay mining the entire time. And don't even get attacked. And B: AWOXing is not being removed. Free corp aggression 'may' be getting removed. AWOXing is a whole lot more than free corp aggression in high sec to gank mission runners. And all the actual smart AWOXing methods will remain intact. So.... They aren't removing AWOXing, stop being chicken little. Edit Omnathious Deninard wrote: So I hate to be that guy but, Anyone have a link to CCP's statement confirming that they plan to do this, or is this thread just rumor mongering. Proteus Dev blog mentions 'upcoming intra corp aggression changes' in 2015 (presumably early given they are mentioning it). Given that currently there is an utterly free pass, any intra corp aggression changes will therefore end up limiting it to some degree. However see above for why it's not the death of AWOXing.
HandelsPharmi Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1122	Posted - 2014.12.23 06:52:40 - [26] - Quote Throwaway Sam Atild wrote: It saddens me that (correct me if I'm wrong) AWOX mechanics are getting pulled from the game. I think that the constant threat of intruders into a HS indy corp (like mine) made things more interesting. However if it has to go, I'd provide this as an alternative. Allow CEO's to toggle whether or not there are Concord reprisals within their corporation. This would be tied to a 24 hour timer so that evil CEO's can't surprise members and reverse AWOX them. However, allowing the option to turn off the concord response allows HS corps to practice PVP amongst themselves which would be fantastic for groups like RVB, or anyone who likes to mix it up within their own corp for whatever reason. Welcome to EVE :) It is not the CEO which is evil, we all are evil on our own way :)
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 434	Posted - 2014.12.23 08:54:30 - [27] - Quote Throwaway Sam Atild wrote: It saddens me that (correct me if I'm wrong) AWOX mechanics are getting pulled from the game. I think that the constant threat of intruders into a HS indy corp (like mine) made things more interesting. However if it has to go, I'd provide this as an alternative. Allow CEO's to toggle whether or not there are Concord reprisals within their corporation. This would be tied to a 24 hour timer so that evil CEO's can't surprise members and reverse AWOX them. However, allowing the option to turn off the concord response allows HS corps to practice PVP amongst themselves which would be fantastic for groups like RVB, or anyone who likes to mix it up within their own corp for whatever reason. AWOX mechanics haven't been pulled from the game. They were modified to be consistent across each section of space. You think awoxing some peanuts battleship while he runs a mission is an achievement? Or good game play? You sad little man. This thread has been reported for being of nil value, like all the other conplaints that ignorantly refuse to address the basic reason why it was done to begin with. Join channel Aussies in space to chat with AU/NZ players
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 319	Posted - 2014.12.23 09:09:36 - [28] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: So I hate to be that guy but, Anyone have a link to CCP's statement confirming that they plan to do this, or is this thread just rumor mongering. You can read about it and what your CSM members said about it in the CSM9 summer minutes, starting on page 78. They said they wanted to implement it by "the end of the year" but obviously haven't. Changes in intra-corp agression are mentioned in CCP Seagull's devblog, but let's hope they are part of a coherent revamp of corporation mechanics that still allow such content it enables (e.g. internal sabotage and intracorp sparring/training) and aren't just yet another straight-up increase in safety for highsec players. My suggestion: go with the "social corp" idea which corps can opt-in to where they don't get the benefits (POSes, taxes, etc.) of a full corp but are immune to wardecs and intracorp aggression. It leaves all the tools in the sandbox for players and corporations who want the rewards and responsibilities of defending a corp while allowing new players, new corps and the risk-averse to still play the game with greater safety, albeit with reduced rewards. Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
Shivanthar 159	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:00:31 - [29] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Why would they remove AWOXing? Corporate espionage is perfectly valid I would have thought? I disagree and think otherwise. There is no self-defense for some people at the moment your corp leader accepts an awoxer inside with or without any intention. You are doing a regular thing, while becoming completely defensless against someone who are perfectly safe for his ganking actions. At least in high-sec, there must be consequences. At least when safety is on. _Half _the lies they tell about me aren't true.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 639	Posted - 2014.12.23 17:49:19 - [30] - Quote Shivanthar wrote: Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Why would they remove AWOXing? Corporate espionage is perfectly valid I would have thought? I disagree and think otherwise. There is no self-defense for some people at the moment your corp leader accepts an awoxer inside with or without any intention. You are doing a regular thing, while becoming completely defensless against someone who are perfectly safe for his ganking actions. At least in high-sec, there must be consequences. At least when safety is on. Then make awoxers suspect, that way it is extremely risky for them (if someone actually does something about it) and it still remains a thing. And besides suspect let corps pick no suspect flag for in corp aggro in corps like RvB Instead of being stupid and destroying what Eve is. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2072	Posted - 2014.12.23 18:34:46 - [31] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: So I hate to be that guy but, Anyone have a link to CCP's statement confirming that they plan to do this, or is this thread just rumor mongering. its a vague reference. Quote: A Status Update on our Work on Sovereignty Gameplay We are taking requests for big and small improvements to the corporation and alliance interface and we will be releasing features continuously in 2015, along with deeper changes such as intra-corporation aggression changes and extended alliance-based functionality such as bookmarks. Please post your interface suggestions in this thread: We want your corp little things! Source edit- Oh and i would support a change where AWOXers go suspect. The only issue i have with AWOXers is the riskless RR they can have. This would be an elegant solution. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
McChicken Combo HalfMayo The Happy Meal 162	Posted - 2014.12.23 23:12:41 - [32] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: The worst repercussion of the removal of AWOX will not be the inability for the odd person to infiltrate a corp of carebears and shoot them. It's biggest affects will be seen in corps like RvB which rely on intracorp aggression for the enjoyment of hundreds of players. I don't support removing AWOXing from corps, but if they do the OP's suggestion is vital. With that said, it's silly to threaten unsubbing over this. You are a seriously boring player if you can't find ways to enjoy the game without shooting new/bad PVE players in high-sec. I understand the idea of trying to prove a point, but it's wishful thinking to hope this will be another Incarna. You aren't going to have hundreds of players proving that point with you. Yeah it's silly to draw the line somewhere after more than 50 nerfs to my past styles of gameplay and increasingly narrowed field of gameplay. This adds no content to the game and removes a ton. And all it achieves is make eve more mainstream. GO SPACE WOW cough hello kitty online in SPACE!! And if it were up to me, most of those nerfs would be reversed. I'm with you on that. It's a stretch to say this nerf produces no content, though. Their intent is to promote recruiting in high-sec corps, in order to increase player interaction. They are going about it all wrong, but the intention is fair. I think it's still possible to do all the things you want to do though. "50" nerfs later amd they haven't removed any play styles but have only changed some of the dynamics involved. With all the nerfs to ganking, it's going stronger than ever now. If they actually removed the ability to AWOX corp members, I would see your point. They haven't. You just have to go to low, null or WH to shoot corp ships now. Carebears rejoice over this change because of their risk aversion, but unwillingness to adapt and move out of high-sec to adapt is in many ways as risk averse. Keep in mind there are other ways to AWOX a high-sec corp without shooting down someone's mission boat. You can still commit scams, you can still steal from corp hangars or POS, and you can still lure your target out of high-sec and kill him there. If you are intent on insuring high-sec AWOX mechanics stay in place, instead of threatening to leave the game promote suggestions by players like Tear Jar which offer the best of both worlds. ~ Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 82	Posted - 2014.12.24 02:44:47 - [33] - Quote Been watching this one with interest and I have several thoughts. If you rely on AWOX to shoot players in high sec that is truly sad and when they remove it from the game all I have to say is don't let the door hit you in the back side on the way out. However, before you leave please contract all of your stuff to one of the corps dedicated to helping new players like Brave Newbies or The Angel Project. Moving on if they were to remove AWOXing I have several ideas on how to handle the real problems it would create like the RvB situation and training players new or otherwise. Shooting corp mates could be handled by a change to the Concord response, if you are shooting a corp mate then Concord only responds if you actually destroy their ship other wise you can shoot away with no problem. Allows for shooting each other as a training tool, but still punishes those who use AWOX as a tool simply for kills on a kill board. Situations like RvB create another problem entirely but even then it could be handled relatively easily. Create a war dec that is filed with approval from CEO or directors of all corps involved, it would have a lower cost and longer duration than current. For duration say 1 month, or perhaps 3 months, this would allow all corps involved a way to opt out of the agreement without placing an un-due burden on them if they want to continue. This WD would only extend the protections from Concord to members of the corps that are party to the agreement.
Lugh Crow-Slave 342	Posted - 2014.12.27 13:39:07 - [34] - Quote save AWOXing it adds the risk of it happening adds to the recruitment process in eve its the risk that comes from the reward of a new member
Alia Ravenswing DARK HAT 17	Posted - 2014.12.27 13:41:28 - [35] - Quote What the heck is AWOX?
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 615	Posted - 2014.12.27 16:32:30 - [36] - Quote Alia Ravenswing wrote: What the heck is AWOX? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewok "To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 82	Posted - 2014.12.27 17:10:35 - [37] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: Alia Ravenswing wrote: What the heck is AWOX? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewok Interesting but the question was "what is AWOX" not what is Ewok. The most common way I have seen AWOX describe is a player joins a corp specifically for the purpose of killing his new corp mates.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2080	Posted - 2014.12.27 18:10:33 - [38] - Quote Alia Ravenswing wrote: What the heck is AWOX? AWOX was the name of a character who made the act of shooting fellow corpmates (in)famous. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Lugh Crow-Slave 342	Posted - 2014.12.27 19:43:34 - [39] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Alia Ravenswing wrote: What the heck is AWOX? AWOX was the name of a character who made the act of shooting fellow corpmates (in)famous. it was providing warpins on fleets he was a member of if i remember correct then the term broadened
Diesel47 Deep Dark Fantasy. 1081	Posted - 2014.12.27 19:53:35 - [40] - Quote If this change happens I'm unsubbing. It is one small step towards "themepark MMO". I don't want to watch this game be ruined like that.
Lugh Crow-Slave 343	Posted - 2014.12.27 20:17:58 - [41] - Quote Diesel47 wrote: If this change happens I'm unsubbing. It is one small step towards "themepark MMO". I don't want to watch this game be ruined like that. I won't go so far as unsubbing but what a change like this could foreshadow i don't like
Steppa Musana Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.12.28 01:42:24 - [42] - Quote Diesel47 wrote: If this change happens I'm unsubbing. It is one small step towards "themepark MMO". I don't want to watch this game be ruined like that. It's one step towards balancing high-sec mechanics properly. I keep hearing this same one argument about this, "ooooh but outside of highsec you have to deal with awoxers, why is highsec special". Ummm, because it's high-sec. There is CONCORD in highsec. Stupid that it was ever allowed to begin with. But you want to know what really makes the game like a themepark MMO? When awoxers in highsec can't grow a pair and do the same thing in null or WH. if people are going to quit over this its not because of themepark anything, its because they are too sissy to do their awox thing against non highsec corps who actually know how to fight back. the real themeparkers are the awoxers. adapt or die is how this works.
Diesel47 Deep Dark Fantasy. 1082	Posted - 2014.12.28 08:08:14 - [43] - Quote Steppa Musana wrote: Diesel47 wrote: If this change happens I'm unsubbing. It is one small step towards "themepark MMO". I don't want to watch this game be ruined like that. It's one step towards balancing high-sec mechanics properly. I keep hearing this same one argument about this, "ooooh but outside of highsec you have to deal with awoxers, why is highsec special". Ummm, because it's high-sec. There is CONCORD in highsec. Stupid that it was ever allowed to begin with. But you want to know what really makes the game like a themepark MMO? When awoxers in highsec can't grow a pair and do the same thing in null or WH. if people are going to quit over this its not because of themepark anything, its because they are too sissy to do their awox thing against non highsec corps who actually know how to fight back. the real themeparkers are the awoxers. adapt or die is how this works. Adapt or die? So learn how to do background checks and this magical thing called full API. Don't even throw around terms like "adapt or die" when you cry to CCP to adapt the game for you.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1837	Posted - 2014.12.28 08:13:45 - [44] - Quote Diesel47 wrote: If this change happens I'm unsubbing. It is one small step towards "themepark MMO". I don't want to watch this game be ruined like that. Can I ahve your stuff, I promise to put a reasonable portion of your stuff towards ganking people with too much wealth if you do.
Diesel47 Deep Dark Fantasy. 1082	Posted - 2014.12.28 08:50:47 - [45] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Diesel47 wrote: If this change happens I'm unsubbing. It is one small step towards "themepark MMO". I don't want to watch this game be ruined like that. Can I ahve your stuff, I promise to put a reasonable portion of your stuff towards ganking people with too much wealth if you do. No my stuff will go with me. Maybe CCP will realize they pampered the wrong group, after all the casuals jump ship when Star Citizen comes out.
Lugh Crow-Slave 346	Posted - 2014.12.28 14:38:40 - [46] - Quote Steppa Musana wrote: Diesel47 wrote: If this change happens I'm unsubbing. It is one small step towards "themepark MMO". I don't want to watch this game be ruined like that. It's one step towards balancing high-sec mechanics properly. I keep hearing this same one argument about this, "ooooh but outside of highsec you have to deal with awoxers, why is highsec special". Ummm, because it's high-sec. There is CONCORD in highsec. Stupid that it was ever allowed to begin with. But you want to know what really makes the game like a themepark MMO? When awoxers in highsec can't grow a pair and do the same thing in null or WH. if people are going to quit over this its not because of themepark anything, its because they are too sissy to do their awox thing against non highsec corps who actually know how to fight back. the real themeparkers are the awoxers. adapt or die is how this works. this isn't about balancing HS or LS or null it is about how currently you need at least some level of trust when you are in a corp with other people something most games don't require. making it so you could queue up some one to be kicked after DT made seance as it didn't remove the need for trust just some of the headache after some one broke it
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2082	Posted - 2014.12.28 16:13:07 - [47] - Quote Steppa you dont know what is meant by themepark. AWOXing is the complete Opposite of themepark gameplay. Players will adapt. But that doesnt mean this a change for the better, it doesnt balance anything. Its a significant amount of content removed so that players can get away with being bad at the game frankly. -Some acts of AWOXing have made it into the press (and not just gaming press). Players joined the game when they read about the treacheries because this kind of meta-gaming cannot be found anywhere else and its interesting. -Without it you can blindly accept anyone into your corp, no effort, no risk. Just set a 10% tax rate and then accept anyone who applies. You dont have to talk to them, you dont have to take them under your wing and teach them anything, you dont have to give them anything or engage them, you dont have to protect them. They just give you money for no effort, no risk. Thats not interesting, and its not going to encourage noobs to stick around. -It would be another step towards a themepark MMO. I remember a corp with some friends of mine in. They were typical of a young nooby corp. Indie chars and some mission chars looking to scrape a living out. They recruited an AWOXer who was also somewhat new to the game and he started attacking their barges, getting a couple of kills and then evading any counter attack. They got in touch with me and i had an alt (just out of a trial account at the time) join there corp, we set up some bait with some barges and did a logonski trap. Destroyed his cruiser then pursued his pod back to some station. Camped him in, destroyed his second ship when he tried to leave, then chased his fast frigate around for a bit, and finally kicked him from corp. The corp that was getting AWOXed really enjoyed themselves. It was their first REAL taste of eve. Its an experience entirely unique to eve and it taught them to screen their recruits and make decisions, rather than blindly accept anyone and everyone. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Shivanthar 165	Posted - 2014.12.28 17:46:23 - [48] - Quote It simply seems that awoxing is a legimitely legalized way of high-sec ganking with concord-workaround, supported by ccp. Marking suspect will do. So, if attacked player decides he was mistakenly shot, no action will take place. If the intention is bad, then victim will have an option to shoot back :) Why so many players rely on shooting in high-sec without concord involved? Oh yes, you want actions without consequences. Right ^.^ _Half _the lies they tell about me aren't true.
Lugh Crow-Slave 351	Posted - 2014.12.28 18:05:20 - [49] - Quote Shivanthar wrote: It simply seems that awoxing is a legimitely legalized way of high-sec ganking with concord-workaround, supported by ccp. Marking suspect will do. So, if attacked player decides he was mistakenly shot, no action will take place. If the intention is bad, then victim will have an option to shoot back :) Why so many players rely on shooting in high-sec without concord involved? Oh yes, you want actions without consequences. Right ^.^ What? you can always shoot back at an awoxer(you can even shoot first) removing awoxing allows people to just let anyone into their corp with no risk of consequences so what is your point i can't tell if you are for or against
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 83	Posted - 2014.12.28 18:17:42 - [50] - Quote Some thoughts on posts by others. Diesel47 wrote: So learn how to do background checks and this magical thing called full API. Asking for full API keys may work for nul, low and WH corps, if you ask for a full API key for a high sec corp and most players will tell you exactly where to stuff your request especially the newbies making this almost irrelevant when taling about high sec corps. Diesel47 wrote: Maybe CCP will realize they pampered the wrong group, after all the casuals jump ship when Star Citizen comes out. I doubt seriously that the casual players would care if Star Citizen became a thing in this game it is far more likely to affect the vets such as yourself. But in basic I agree with you that EVE becoming more like Star Citizen would not be a good thing. Besides that it is those casual players that make up the largest percentage of the player base in EVE and they are the ones most likely to pay for their subscriptions and to buy plex to convert to ISK so keeping them in game should be high on your priorities list. And I have to wonder if giving up high sec AWOXing in exchange for keeping the cash cow of casual player may not be best for this game as a whole? Multiples here extracted and combined due to quote limitations in a post. Daichi Yamato wrote: But that doesnt mean this a change for the better, it doesnt balance anything. Its a significant amount of content removed so that players can get away with being bad at the game frankly. Some acts of AWOXing have made it into the press (and not just gaming press). Players joined the game when they read about the treacheries because this kind of meta-gaming cannot be found anywhere else and its interesting. Thats not interesting, and its not going to encourage noobs to stick around. I doubt very much that high sec AWOXing adds a "significant amount" of content to this game. In fact I doubt very much that most of the players in this game would even notice if AWOXing was removed. The acts of AWOXing that have made news outside of this game were likely done to/in a nul sec corp and removing AWOXing from high sec would have no affect on these nul/low sec situations. AWOXing is not something that encourages most new players to stick around this game. In fact it is likely to have the opposite affect and drive many more out of the game than it would keep in the game.
Lugh Crow-Slave 351	Posted - 2014.12.28 18:27:05 - [51] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Some thoughts on posts by others. Diesel47 wrote: So learn how to do background checks and this magical thing called full API. Asking for full API keys may work for nul, low and WH corps, if you ask for a full API key for a high sec corp and most players will tell you exactly where to stuff your request especially the newbies making this almost irrelevant when taling about high sec corps. well this is nothing more than a lie after running highsec corps and helping many start up i have never had a new player refuse a full api at worst i have had to spend 30 min explaining it to them
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1838	Posted - 2014.12.28 20:10:09 - [52] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: removing awoxing allows people to just let anyone into their corp with no risk of consequences so what is your point i can't tell if you are for or against Removal of concord free intra corp aggression is not removal of Awoxing for a start. All the examples of awoxing that have made the media have been of the corporate theft variety, which will still exist Also you can scam your target into going suspect, or following you to low or dueling you or..... There are still a whole list of ways which you can awox. What removal of concord free intra corp aggression will do is remove a weird exception to high sec rules.
Lugh Crow-Slave 356	Posted - 2014.12.28 20:20:49 - [53] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: removing awoxing allows people to just let anyone into their corp with no risk of consequences so what is your point i can't tell if you are for or against Removal of concord free intra corp aggression is not removal of Awoxing for a start. All the examples of awoxing that have made the media have been of the corporate theft variety, which will still exist Also you can scam your target into going suspect, or following you to low or dueling you or..... There are still a whole list of ways which you can awox. What removal of concord free intra corp aggression will do is remove a weird exception to high sec rules. and remove a big part of that starting trust needed
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1841	Posted - 2014.12.28 22:44:53 - [54] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: and remove a big part of that starting trust needed Not really. They can still steal, spy, scout etc. And removing a little bit of the psych eval needed for EVE corp applications won't really hurt the game.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 83	Posted - 2014.12.29 01:59:39 - [55] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Donnachadh wrote: Some thoughts on posts by others. Diesel47 wrote: So learn how to do background checks and this magical thing called full API. Asking for full API keys may work for nul, low and WH corps, if you ask for a full API key for a high sec corp and most players will tell you exactly where to stuff your request especially the newbies making this almost irrelevant when taling about high sec corps. well this is nothing more than a lie after running highsec corps and helping many start up i have never had a new player refuse a full api at worst i have had to spend 30 min explaining it to them To turn this around your post is nothing but a lie. In all the years I have been in this game, all the high sec corps I have been involved in (remember this is not my only character) and all the players I have talked to not one single person has been willing to give a full api key to join a high sec corp. no matter how long I talked to them or what I told them it was needed for. So I suggest we set aside the name calling and simply accept that we have differing experiences in this matter.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2083	Posted - 2014.12.29 06:43:28 - [56] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: I doubt very much that high sec AWOXing adds a "significant amount" of content to this game. In fact I doubt very much that most of the players in this game would even notice if AWOXing was removed. The acts of AWOXing that have made news outside of this game were likely done to/in a nul sec corp and removing AWOXing from high sec would have no affect on these nul/low sec situations. AWOXing is not something that encourages most new players to stick around this game. In fact it is likely to have the opposite affect and drive many more out of the game than it would keep in the game. 'Significant' was used in a literal sense. If it wasnt significant, we wouldnt be talking about it. No one would care if it was removed or not if it were insignificant. The Mittani wouldnt make articles on his news site proposing ideas to remove it if it were insignificant. This is also why part of your second statement is false. It doesnt matter where AWOXing happens. The act carries the same spark of drama and player interactions everywhere, and THAT is eve. The players reading the articles come into the game expecting to be able to do something similar no matter what area of space they are in. If you are arguing that its ok to get rid of hi-sec AWOXing because it doesnt feature in mainstream news, then i expect you also think hi-sec PvE and hi-sec skirmish PvP should be removed. Right? No. Exactly. The new players that leave because of AWOXing are more than likely the kind of players looking for a themepark. They dont like ganking, they dont like corp thieves. They come here to 'level up their raven' then leave a few months down the line, mistaking the ease of accessing even advanced ships as the 'end game'. If there is any kind of player that has little to fear from AWOXing, its new players who can quickly bounce back. The players who supposedly fear AWOXing are vets, which is why some players (the mittani included) believe the risk of AWOXing creates a fear of recruiting new players (though actually asking people who dont like to recruit new players why they dont like recruiting new players, as i have done, has yet to be met with the answer 'cause AWOXers'). Anyways, some quotes regarding just one notorious AWOX (and yes theft) incident: Quote: For our money, the Ubiqua Seraph infiltration was an act of despicable brilliance. An operation as cruel as it is astonishing, it serves as a simultaneous testament to both the virtues and the evils of a truly open-ended massively multiplayer game. Players crying for developers CCP to step in and redress the balance miss the point - this is exactly the kind of extraordinary player politics that you can't find anywhere else. CCP been very vocal in the past about their intention to simply create a world - a galaxy, in fact - and let people do what they may within it. If you stop people from doing horrible things to each other in it, you lose the full scope of what a game can be. Shogaatsu confirms that many of the Guided Hand Social Club's operations have caused players to leave Eve Online for good. But there will be many more - ourselves included - who get an irrepressible urge to play it when they read about the dark machinations of this extraordinary universe. If there's another game in which 'Valentine Operative' is a viable occupation, we've yet to play it. Quote: -Made my first account from this heist. This is what gave me my first taste of eve - Simply put, the greatest EVE story. We all know someone who got into the game from reading this in the press. This cannot be excluded from the multimedia follow-ons from this project. - A member of our group from another game read this story and tried Eve. He then passed the story around to the rest of us with his first impressions of the game. Two weeks later more than ten of us had come over. At least eight of us are still playing. "This cannot be excluded from the multimedia follow-ons from this project." I couldn't agree more. - One reason i started this game. +1 - Same here - This story was the reason I started playing EVE - Me too, the story of the heist, rehashed somewhere with a link to the PC gamer article, was one of main catalysts to me trying out EvE online 4 years ago. Sources: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/180867/features/murder-incorporated/ https://truestories.eveonline.com/truestories/ideas/1025-guiding-hand-social-clubs-uqs-contract-or-the-heist-where-mirial-and-ubiqua-seraph-have-a-bad-day.html This kind of game play is exactly what we came here for. To be empowered with the ability to be wicked or heroic. Space bro or space bastard. To play against the wits of other players; not just their piloting skills, their economic size or their SP. Removing AWOXing would take away part of that. In my experience, the vast majority of players dnt mind a full api. its actually increased in popularity as a requirement a lot over the past few years. I've only ever been denied once after asking for a full api, and thats easily out of hundreds. That 'psych eval' is the difference between good recruitment and blindly accepting anyone for free corp tax. The former puts in work and is prudent, the latter is greedy and reckless. Why the hell shouldnt that carry rewards and risk respectively? /wall of text EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1843	Posted - 2014.12.29 10:00:09 - [57] - Quote The stories you have quoted will not be affected by the changing of Intra corp aggression in high sec. One occurred in a 0.3 system, the other was a theft. Neither of these are applicable to the discussion, and are just grand standing attempts to try and pretend the sky is actually falling, when nothing of the sort is happening.
Diesel47 Deep Dark Fantasy. 1082	Posted - 2014.12.29 10:27:15 - [58] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Some thoughts on posts by others. Diesel47 wrote: So learn how to do background checks and this magical thing called full API. Asking for full API keys may work for nul, low and WH corps, if you ask for a full API key for a high sec corp and most players will tell you exactly where to stuff your request especially the newbies making this almost irrelevant when taling about high sec corps. Diesel47 wrote: Maybe CCP will realize they pampered the wrong group, after all the casuals jump ship when Star Citizen comes out. I doubt seriously that the casual players would care if Star Citizen became a thing in this game it is far more likely to affect the vets such as yourself. But in basic I agree with you that EVE becoming more like Star Citizen would not be a good thing. Besides that it is those casual players that make up the largest percentage of the player base in EVE and they are the ones most likely to pay for their subscriptions and to buy plex to convert to ISK so keeping them in game should be high on your priorities list. And I have to wonder if giving up high sec AWOXing in exchange for keeping the cash cow of casual player may not be best for this game as a whole? Multiples here extracted and combined due to quote limitations in a post. Daichi Yamato wrote: But that doesnt mean this a change for the better, it doesnt balance anything. Its a significant amount of content removed so that players can get away with being bad at the game frankly. Some acts of AWOXing have made it into the press (and not just gaming press). Players joined the game when they read about the treacheries because this kind of meta-gaming cannot be found anywhere else and its interesting. Thats not interesting, and its not going to encourage noobs to stick around. I doubt very much that high sec AWOXing adds a "significant amount" of content to this game. In fact I doubt very much that most of the players in this game would even notice if AWOXing was removed. The acts of AWOXing that have made news outside of this game were likely done to/in a nul sec corp and removing AWOXing from high sec would have no affect on these nul/low sec situations. AWOXing is not something that encourages most new players to stick around this game. In fact it is likely to have the opposite affect and drive many more out of the game than it would keep in the game. You are just making things up. All corps worth anything ask for APIs, high sec or not. Looking in recruitment chat and in the adverts, most of them list API as a requirement for joining. And they are all high sec. Don't want to get AWOXed? Check APIs. If somebody doesn't want to give it? Don't accept them. No excuses. And saying that the casuals are the ones that are more likely to stick with the game? That is also BS. The hardcore players are the ones that will stay with the game, the casuals are the ones that will leave once a new game piques their interest. If they stay with the game, they won't be "casuals". If they spend real money on a game they aren't "casual" either. You just defined a hardcore player and called it casual.
Diesel47 Deep Dark Fantasy. 1082	Posted - 2014.12.29 10:29:17 - [59] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: and remove a big part of that starting trust needed Not really. They can still steal, spy, scout etc. And removing a little bit of the psych eval needed for EVE corp applications won't really hurt the game. No thanks. Stop being lazy and do your background checks. It takes literally 10 minutes to figure out if somebody is probably going to AWOX or not.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2084	Posted - 2014.12.29 16:12:40 - [60] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: The stories you have quoted will not be affected by the changing of Intra corp aggression in high sec. One occurred in a 0.3 system, the other was a theft. Neither of these are applicable to the discussion, and are just grand standing attempts to try and pretend the sky is actually falling, when nothing of the sort is happening. No, you've missed the point. And they are applicable to the discussion, they have inspired players to join the game and go AWOX in hi-sec, to steal in hi-sec, to be a general space bastard. daichi yamato wrote: It doesnt matter where AWOXing happens. The act carries the same spark of drama and player interactions everywhere, and THAT is eve. The players reading the articles come into the game expecting to be able to do something similar no matter what area of space they are in. If you are arguing that its ok to get rid of hi-sec AWOXing because it doesnt feature in mainstream news, then i expect you also think hi-sec PvE and hi-sec skirmish PvP should be removed. Right? No. Exactly. Quote: Players crying for developers CCP to step in and redress the balance miss the point - this is exactly the kind of extraordinary player politics that you can't find anywhere else. CCP been very vocal in the past about their intention to simply create a world - a galaxy, in fact - and let people do what they may within it. If you stop people from doing horrible things to each other in it, you lose the full scope of what a game can be. it really doesnt matter where it happens. its inspiring game play (clearly), it is interesting, dramatic, emotional. It rewards effort, it punishes lazy greed. It gives players choices. taking it away adds nothing to gameplay. And the reasons people say it should happen?: *- it helps new players get into a corp.* No it doesnt. No corp that flat out rejects applications from new players does so because of AWOXing. By far the most common reason was because they dont have the time and patience to teach new players about the game. Second was because new players rarely stick around for long. Then it was because they had skill intensive doctrines. and the lowest on the list was because of spies and thieves. AWOXing is never mentioned. The affect AWOXing has on Corps is that they often screen recruits, this is a meaningful choice. *- Its an unintuitive mechanic.* Do you know what other unintuitive mechanics there are that often catch out or confuse noobs? - Flying a bigger, more expensive ship that takes more SP to fly does not make you automatically win a fight. - You train skills by time, not by performing actions - hi-sec is not 100% safe/there is no non-pvp area. - What constitutes as griefing in other games, is viable gameplay within eve. - Loss is permanent. What gets destroyed, stays destroyed. - Player driven economy rather than only seeded items. Does it come as a surprise to you that some of eve's best features are unintuitive? Eve is an unintuitive game. Thats why we have this learning curve. Thats why we tell new players: 'Forget everything you know about other MMO's. Eve is not like other MMO's'. unintuitive =/= bad. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1844	Posted - 2014.12.29 22:11:21 - [61] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: No, you've missed the point. And they are applicable to the discussion, they have inspired players to join the game and go AWOX in hi-sec, to steal in hi-sec, to be a general space bastard. Nope, I haven't missed the point, you claiming I have doesn't make it so. You are trying to paint a picture as the removal of intra corp aggression exceptions removing 'all' AWOXing and destroying all these exceptional news articles that generate advertisement for EVE. However that's a blatant lie, as none of those AWOX incidents that have generated news articles would have been affected by it anyway. All that is affected by it are those who rely on cheap game mechanics and need an exception from the standard rules of play. Complexity is not always good, and there is no reason to have exceptions to security level rules simply because you share a corp. So while I'm certain you 'could' make a workable system where you go suspect for shooting a corp member, there is actually no good reason other than preserving cheap game play that bypasses standard rules. As all the 'good' and newsworthy AWOXing is unaffected by making the rules the same for everyone. (in a given security area)
Foxicity Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 73	Posted - 2014.12.29 22:23:14 - [62] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: All that is affected by it are those who rely on cheap game mechanics grr
Tear Jar New Order Logistics CODE. 263	Posted - 2014.12.29 22:27:56 - [63] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Alongside the point of, if you use this feature, your corp pays NPC corp taxes on all their transactions. If people are going to act like they're in an NPC corp, they should get the negatives along with the positives. The issue is that one man corps are still a thing. You can get all the benefits of a real corp with none of the risk already.
Tear Jar New Order Logistics CODE. 263	Posted - 2014.12.29 22:29:56 - [64] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Joe Risalo wrote: Yeah, I don't know what makes me think this, but I'm pretty sure no CEO would turn on AWOXing for their corp, no matter how evil they are. Even the most elite of elite don't like getting blown up when they can't fight back(mining as an example).... Don't let them try to tell you otherwise.. Given reverse awoxing recruitment scams exist whereby CEO's invite people into the corp so they can gank them...... Pretty sure some would. And those are typically the scummiest of awox'ers as most of their victims are newer players who don't know any better. Frankly, the mechanic is outdated and should be removed entirely. You can still pull off cunning ganks by talking them into a duel, or going suspect, or going to low sec with you or giving you their ship to haul in your bowhead, or or or...... The removal of inside corp concord free aggression is not the end of Awoxing basically. It's only the removal of a poor mechanic that is inconsistent with the rest of EVE's rules. Complexity is not always good. And this is bad complexity. Crime watch removed most methods for a cunning gank. You can't trick anyone other than complete idiots into accidently provoking a limited engagement.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2084	Posted - 2014.12.30 01:37:23 - [65] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Nope, I haven't missed the point, you claiming I have doesn't make it so. You are trying to paint a picture as the removal of intra corp aggression exceptions removing 'all' AWOXing and destroying all these exceptional news articles that generate advertisement for EVE. Please quote me where i said that. or read what i said properly and realise, you have actually missed the point. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
masternerdguy Inner Shadow Did he say Jump 1792	Posted - 2014.12.30 02:56:29 - [66] - Quote You know, confusing a new player isn't the end of the world. The ones who are actually into the game will learn quickly, and will appreciate the challenge. Making hi sec safer has always been a slippery slope, and in the 7 years I've played I've seen hi sec gradually converted into a paradise for the lazy and willfully ignorant. The people who call for these changes are never satisfied, and always want even more safety after each concession. I wouldn't play EVE if they removed something as old and fundamental to the character of the game as AWOXing, and I don't even AWOX. It would be just another tool removed from the sandbox because someone didn't want to do the research. Things are only impossible until they are not.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 83	Posted - 2014.12.30 03:01:48 - [67] - Quote Diesel47 wrote: You are just making things up. All corps worth anything ask for APIs, high sec or not. Looking in recruitment chat and in the adverts, most of them list API as a requirement for joining. And they are all high sec. I get tired of being called a lair because my game experiences do not match yours or someone elses, perhaps you could learn to be a better citizen of the forums and use a more appropriate phrase something like "It has been my experience", or "all of the corps I have seen". This response does bring up a question though, how do you define a corp as being "worth anything"? Diesel47 wrote: And saying that the casuals are the ones that are more likely to stick with the game? That is also BS. The hardcore players are the ones that will stay with the game, the casuals are the ones that will leave once a new game piques their interest. If they stay with the game, they won't be "casuals". If they spend real money on a game they aren't "casual" either. You just defined a hardcore player and called it casual. There are multiple ways to describe a casual gamer and staying with a game for long periods of time in and of itself does not make one a hard core gamer. I never said the casual gamer players were most likely to "stay" with the game please read posts before responding. I stated that the casual gamer players are the ones most likely to pay for their game time. Here is the segment of the post in question. Donnachadh wrote: Besides that it is those casual players that make up the largest percentage of the player base in EVE and they are the ones most likely to pay for their subscriptions and to buy plex to convert to ISK so keeping them in game should be high on your priorities list.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2084	Posted - 2014.12.30 04:10:22 - [68] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: This response does bring up a question though, how do you define a corp as being "worth anything"? Perhaps the corp think they can make demands upon recruits because they believe they are 'worth' the cost of recruit privacy. Or the practice of requiring a full API improves the security of the corp for its members, and thus is 'worth' recruit privacy. Value can be added or deducted from a corp depending on perspective. And can be measured by just what you demand or are willing to give up to be a part of that corp. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"

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