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Skorn Blacksword
Maas Industries Vae. Victis.
7
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Posted - 2014.12.12 06:32:24 -
[1] - Quote
Let me start off by saying that the way we do data sites is awesome. CPP did a great job with this. My understanding is that we are fishing for data. Breaking into a secure security system to gain something of value. Perfect and it requires absolutely no changes.
However, when I think of relics I think of treasure maps, following clues, exploration and discovery. In this aspect I think that CPP could do better.
I'm going to outline a different system of relic sites with different rewards. Please consider my idea and leave constructive criticism.
First off.. lets talk about seeking relics. A relic is something of value only to those who are interested in the past. Wither its ancient religious relics, information about ancient societies or even lost technology. Imagine the value of a (Encyclopedia Britannica) from the 21st century in the current eve universe. It would be interesting and priceless to historians, but not much use to capsoliers. Choosing who to sell that enclopedia could boost a faction or governments knowlege and therefore eary you respect (faction), and fortune (LP rewards).
Relic sites should be a game of seeking out sites, finding clues that lead to other sites, or recovering something of historical or artistic value. These items can be turned into Npc collectors for LP rewards or faction rewards not much different than a mission runners rewards. The sites can chain together or to make an escalation into greater and greater rewards. Each additional escalation generates an expedition log. If it gets too difficult for your skills or leads into dangerous territory your not willing to take an expedition into, then the logs can be sold or traded to other players. The log lists the number of previous legs of the journey and the location of the next site. IE it would look like Perimiter part 3 or something like that. The value would be its escalation number, and the difficulty of weither its high sec or null sec and in some extreme cases it might even be a wormhole. The relics can even be part of collectors sets. IE Ancient Earth Religious artifact part 3 etc. Collect them all up and turn them into NPC's for fame and fortune. If you keep working with a Mimatar collector you may become Indiana Jones in reputation with the Mimitar.
For new relic hunters, they may make more isk by selling the expedition logs, for the more experienced they would buy expedition logs in specific regions of space hoping to complete relic sets. Hey I'll sell/trade you a Arida expedition log for a Forge space one, become I'm working on my Caldari faction and the LP rewards are more use to me than the Amar ones. (example given)
The more ultimate relics of course might be something like a 10 leg journey that ends at the eve gate. You find a time capsule commemorating the first exploration ship entering into the eve universe. It has blueprints of the ultimate exploration ship.. Maybe not by eve standers of power and utility, but it would be unique and rare. Do you turn in the blueprint for LP and faction rewards? Or do you research it to make a Tech 2 version that includes an modern era pod? Boat around in that and is like driving around a limo... Uber epeen!
Anyway, the actual "game" of solving relic sites should be less like breaking a security system and some sort of a game dealing more with discovery and solving a puzzle. This of course could be a lot of things, but the point is that it should be different than data hacking. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
436
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Posted - 2014.12.12 06:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
And in other news, the price of T2 rigs just spiked at over 1000% their current value as the primary source for T2 components just evaporated.
We kinda sorta have this already with COSMOS missions, which are in a dreadfully neglected state and need revisiting. But as a change to relic sites instead of an addition to the exploration mechanic, it's a no-go for the above reason.
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Skorn Blacksword
Maas Industries Vae. Victis.
7
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Posted - 2014.12.12 11:07:10 -
[3] - Quote
And there was no benefit to to doing each leg of the Relic site? There would still be rewards for each escalation. You are just an average eve player... Paranoid and resistant to change. No there would not be a 1000% spike in rig costs.... you are thinking on a very small scale.
The rewards for the smaller sites would be the same, however rewards for escalations would be increasingly better. For every player who decides to sell his expedition log level 1 or 2 there will be hundreds of people who will buy them to complete the more complicated expeditions into low sec and null sec space. In other words.. If done properly there really wouldn't be much change in the current market value of rigs... but there would be (((((((( OTHER ))))))) benefits like faction rewards and LP.
Eve players **** me off with their inability understand that change in eve can be a good thing. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
829
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Posted - 2014.12.12 11:27:11 -
[4] - Quote
I would prefer exploration escalations along the lines of the new sleeper sites. Each site in the escalation chain should have a chance of dropping a data slate with garbled co-ords. Find the next site (Should be hard to scan down dependant on escalation from hisec/losec/null in the same way as cachesites) and crack the can and so on until you have enough data slates to decypher the final site (maybe a sleeper site that is still cloaked to probe scans for ease of implementaion). Then in you go and see what you get, with sites dropping a mixture of data/relic/sleeper stuff.
As it is an escalation a combat capable explo ship should be required.
I would also like to see Epic arc exploration working in a similar way. |
Skorn Blacksword
Maas Industries Vae. Victis.
7
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Posted - 2014.12.12 11:48:48 -
[5] - Quote
Ooh absolutely! who is to say that the next level of the expedition is even in the skill level of the player who has it. Its a chance that the player needs to judge for them selves.
1. you have an expedition log in your cargo, and your headed to the next site when you get podded at a gate camp... tough luck. I hope the guy who loots your wreck gets it as a drop.
2. You start the relic sight and some joker chases you off or pods you... touch luck.. I hope they get rewarded if they bother to do the site.
3. You spawn the next site in some unknown corner of the universe but don't have the scanning skills to actually uncover the site.. tough luck your expedition log is gone.
4. You are too afraid to leave high sec to go into dangerous low or null sec space, then you better post the expedition log for sale otherwise you'll just die in a horrible podding experience like your afraid will happen.
There is no reason why normal game play should be changed. No risk no reward. But If i looted an expedition log off your wreck I would probably head straight into dangerous unknown space looking for rewards. And possible it could encourage players to leave the safety of high sec in an epic journey to discover untold riches and fame...... Or loose a probe ship and get podded. Either way it adds a level to relic sites not currently experienced, and in my opinion (hence the post) could actually improve and make the whole relic site exploration much better. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
829
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Posted - 2014.12.12 12:34:25 -
[6] - Quote
Logs being lootable is a good idea and the new gameplay being added for the cache sites can be reused and delivered to a much wider audience without much work. It could work very well as a means to entice new players into traveling further afield. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
440
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Posted - 2014.12.12 18:07:13 -
[7] - Quote
Skorn Blacksword wrote:Yes there would be normal rewards for each relic site........ so no there would not ((( obviously )))) be a 1000% increase in rig prices. Then definitely not.
What you're suggesting is just flat out buffing relic sites (and turning them into isk faucets as well) when these things are in no means hurting for profitability. If you're giving something, you need to take away as well.
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Skorn Blacksword
Maas Industries Vae. Victis.
7
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Posted - 2014.12.13 21:18:34 -
[8] - Quote
You could say the trade off is travel time, Increased dangers of going into null and low sec, and in the more difficult ones even tracking down a specific WH. Just finding 1 WH in 3k could take months, or possibly never. On the other hand the WH name would be listed on the log and If you scanned down a WH then checked the market you might find an expedition log for it. Being the last leg of a journey with a good chance for some uncommon, rare, or unique item, relic or whatever, Its likely to be dangerous if someone lives there.
If players could get LP rewards and faction some might do less missions. So in that sense you likely would make less isk/hour as opposed to running high level missions. There may have to be some other balancing like you suggested, but for the most part I don't see it being a huge deal and likely easily adjusted. |
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
65
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Posted - 2014.12.13 21:32:52 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:relic sites should be different than data sites I totally agree with you in this point. We have 2 different modules that require 2 different skills, but do the exact same thing. This is redundant and bad gameplay design. Either merge the two analyzers and skills into one or give us different mechanics for relic/data sites.
How exactly this new gameplay mechanic should look like, i can't tell, but this redundancy has to be fixed.
Regards, Damjan |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
829
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Posted - 2014.12.13 22:25:25 -
[10] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:And in other news, the price of T2 rigs just spiked at over 1000% their current value as the primary source for T2 components just evaporated.
We kinda sorta have this already with COSMOS missions, which are in a dreadfully neglected state and need revisiting. But as a change to relic sites instead of an addition to the exploration mechanic, it's a no-go for the above reason.
I wouldn't worry too much about that. there are 5 or 6 T2 salvage that are being kept high with artificial manipulation, (volumes available are on par across the board) the rest are tanked below T1 in many cases. The only way I see T2 salvage, T1 as well for that matter, ever getting used up to where there is a shortage is if they introduce charges for rig slots. |
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Skorn Blacksword
Maas Industries Vae. Victis.
7
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Posted - 2014.12.14 11:55:18 -
[11] - Quote
Damjan I could suggest something new just as easily as anyone.
I suggest that discovery, exploration, solving clues might be like the traditional memory game.
A grid of icons you click on them to reveal them. Get 3 matches and you add a value to your um.. lets call it investigation. You have a timer, the longer you take the less value you acquire for the investigation. If you click the same card too many times it disappears. You can find bonuses, cards that make other cards visible till end of game and other bonuses to your investigation value. Once you find all the matches you either gained enough knowledge to continue or you have to try again with a penalty. If your investigation has uncovered enough information you solve the mystery and you gain an item, relic loot, or escelation.
Do all the sites and collect up items and you can unlock the vault. The vault can be a time capsule, physical vault or simply decode an encrypted cypher that leads to a locate of valued items etc. There could be a very many different ending points for any one relic site. The items would be normal relic stuff rewards for each part. But if you fail one section then you only have a % chance to open the big prize at the end. Say there were 5 smaller sites and you failed one you would have an 80% chance to decipher the location of the final stash. The final stash might escalate to a new site of just be more normal relic stuff, or an object used in later parts of the expedition like the ones used to open the final vault in the first site. The relic items can be sold/traded. Say you need a specific commanders sword or a specific golden/silver challis, stone tablet, ancient document, antiquated pistol, religious artifact/statue/holy symbol etc etc.... you could buy/find/trade them. Or you could turn in extra items for LP and faction rewards to NPC collectors. Keeping a collection for yourself would be useful when you find a site that requires items for unlocking the box. Also add risk by having them in your cargo as you could loose them if your attacked. So you may need to find the site first determine what you need and then return in a stealth or defensive ship to unlock and loot your rewards. Or just have friends escort you.
The escalation might simply be go to a heroic statue in a near by system. You point your relic analyzer at it and open up another puzzle. Or you open up another vault that requires pieces you've already collected or still need to find. Each piece gives a % chance to solve or discover the next clue, take a chance and loose your way. Perhaps instead of a new clue you can open the site for some discovered relic loot. Some of the permanent sites in EVE could actually be start location for static relic missions. Or perhaps missions you can only do once in a set period of time day/week/month etc.
This is just a quick idea that I spammed out on the spot... Anyone have better or different idea of what a different style relic sight might involve? I'd love to hear it. |
Skorn Blacksword
Maas Industries Vae. Victis.
10
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Posted - 2014.12.29 21:46:57 -
[12] - Quote
Anyone else have an idea for what the Relic finding game might be changed to? |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
508
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Posted - 2014.12.29 22:05:13 -
[13] - Quote
Ocih wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about that. there are 5 or 6 T2 salvage that are being kept high with artificial manipulation, (volumes available are on par across the board) the rest are tanked below T1 in many cases. The only way I see T2 salvage, T1 as well for that matter, ever getting used up to where there is a shortage is if they introduce charges for rig slots. Considering that was the price of T2 rigs before relic sites became the primary supplier of T2 salvage, it's not a worry: it's a fact.
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Ben Ishikela
10
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Posted - 2015.01.04 17:36:04 -
[14] - Quote
first off: t2 salvage prices are slightly off topic as their supply can be recompensated. so please stop trolling about it.
at op: You had the idea, i tinkered a little and came up with this:
Beginn: Select on Exped out of a pool of Missions -> Travel to Cluster or Find Relic Site on your own. Hack / Game Receive 1st Key and Description of the Item. Sell it or go on. (unfortunately needs a special market UI)
Cycle for each level: Travel to Destination System Find the relic near a Celestial/asteroid/station/moon/... load your relic analyzer with the key and Hack on succesful hack: Solve a Riddle loose the current key anyway if solved -> Get next level Key Sell it or go on.
Finish: Travel to Destination System Find the OBject in Space Upon Salvaging: Answer a hard question about EVE's facts and lore. Receive a very rare/valuable Item. xOR loads of t2 salvage that needs to be hauled in several runs.
addition: this mechanic can also be used to answer scientific questions. yes this is a hint at stargate although the questions should be of the real world. maybe there is some profit in the yet unknown answers here. just brainstorming ;)
Sorry for the doubleposts, somehow i cant post more than 1000letters in one reply.
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