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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Xqu
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:13:50 -
[391] - Quote
Why are all the DED runners complaining about this change? Sure you will lose a few early warnings without being able to see them while they use the gates, but it's not like he will magically appear next to you.
You already know a neutral / hostile is in the system AND you know he can see wrecks just as well as you so hes likely looking for you. Even if he warps into your site and suddenly appears on your overview are you a) a smart person and always aligned out, or b) far away from the warp in point. If you aren't either of these two things would you have warped to a safe spot the moment you saw the guy appear in local.
Also to the guys who thinks that they can magically disappear if they just find a way to make a ratting recon work then think again. People still know you're in local, they can see the wrecks on d-scan and they can see that more wrecks are spawning. It's not difficult to put 2 and 2 together once people get used to this new mechanic.
There is no stupid questions, just stupid answers
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Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
711
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:14:06 -
[392] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:I predict Ishtars: Online will become Combat Recons: Online.
Still better than Ishtars Online. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
254
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:18:44 -
[393] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:'hilarious and great fun' just means it's OP but you're flying it. You're right, that was exactly where I was coming from. However having just read Dys Novus's post further up this page I don't really see this as too game breaking, maybe just in need of some tweaking.
As a few others have said, it doesn't really do much a cloaky Recon doesn't do already? Cloaky recons are getting a *HUGE* buff by getting HAC resists instead of their current ones and no-one seems overly bothered by that. Think that this new rebalanced Pilgrim is likely to be able to put of a 50k EHP tank without much issue, whilst being able to move into position and potentially bump tackle you so your aligned away from your warp out....
Yes a Curse will be able to sit decloaked waiting in a sig for you to warp to it unlike a Pilgrim, but it'll also be on dscan, it'll potentially be taking rat aggro.... I think it can work. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5183
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:24:15 -
[394] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:I predict Ishtars: Online will become Combat Recons: Online. Still better than Ishtars Online. Flavour Of This Month Online being better than Flavour Of Last Month Online still means we're living in Flavour Of the Month Online, which is not neccessarily healthy.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Gorski Car
455
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:24:19 -
[395] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote:This is ridiculous.
- "I warp in 2 fite 2 vexor and they also have 2 rook." Yes this will happen but with the current rules you could warp in to 2 vexors and have 2 falcons decloak on you. Nothing is stopping anybody from doing that.
-"Wormholes are unlivable." What? Wormholes have all kinds of cloaky things in them all the time. Between the cloaky T3s, the Covops, the Recons and the Stratios its pretty dumb to just wander around without being cloaky. A bomber can target and point you instantly after decloak. A Huginn will have to land on grid decloaked and burn over to you uncloaked. (You're an idiot if you sit within point range of the warp in.) Sure the Huginn is tankier than a single bomber, but its not outright superior as a tackler.
This is amazingly dumb. There are so many things that already don't show up in WH directional scan that I just don't get why combat recons are some kind of serious problem. Whats the difference between a cloaked Falcon and an uncloaked Rook? Does it really come down to those few seconds of targeting delay after decloak? How about the upside that you can at least find out about them with probes?
-"Dscan tools are broken!" No they aren't. The cloaky falcon also didn't show up on the Dscan of the enemy fleet.
-"10 arty Huginn..." Sure the hidden arty Huginn got a slight buff. But 9 arty Rapiers and an instalock bomber can currently create the same effect. You don't see them on scan. They can point you instantly. They blap anemically for the number of ships involved. Somehow I don't regularly worry about cloaky arty Rapier fleets right now.
I fully agree so many scrubs here fear mongering that this will end wh pve, fw pvp, solo pvp etc... Recons were weak compared to t3s, eafs and sometimes even t1 ewar ships.
Collect this post
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Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
576
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:26:23 -
[396] - Quote
Looking at the Rook...... it's still really a bit of a turd. It doesn't have any real "Combat" feel to it. |
Clahim
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
150
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:28:10 -
[397] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners.
wth Rise, you are clearly not Bringing Solo Back here...
Very, very disapointed by that.
Stupid Solo PvPer
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
918
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:28:15 -
[398] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Looking at the Rook...... it's still really a bit of a turd. It doesn't have any real "Combat" feel to it.
It needs a substantial powergrid buff and just moar something..... maybe some pppssshhhhhhh
plus the camera is centered like a mile below the model since they changed it. totally disgusting. |
atanV
Repo.
0
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:28:51 -
[399] - Quote
D-scan immunity seems hilariously OP. If you want to develop the Combat Recon role, how about increasing their d-scan range, and/or enabling them to detect the presence of cloaked ships (through the d-scan) instead?
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Clahim
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
150
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:28:57 -
[400] - Quote
Clahim wrote:
Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners.
wth Rise, you are clearly not Bringing Solo Back here...
Very, very disapointed by that, Fw and low sec soloers will suffer from that a lot.
Stupid Solo PvPer
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Kyalla Ahashion
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
14
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:31:17 -
[401] - Quote
Vadeim Rizen wrote:this is so hilariously OP. inb4 recon nerf.
ratters now can't even just keep an eye on d-scan and warp out before someone comes in to tackle.... nobody will be able to detect a covert ops cyno at all unless randomly using combat probes... tbh all they needed was a hitpoint and cap buff.
can't wait to sit in a medium plex with an insta-lock arty rapier and blap unsuspecting frigs.
It's the combat recons that are getting immunity to d-scan, the ones without covert cloaks and covertops cynos. Force recons could just stay cloaked to avoid dscan already.
The dscan immunity that combat recons are getting will have some interesting uses (initial tackle? wormhole harassment?) but I don't see that it will change too much.
I'd trade all the buffs for the ability to web and scram out to actual fleet battle engagement ranges of 140-150km with T2 web/scram though.
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
240
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:31:57 -
[402] - Quote
MukkBarovian wrote: Whats the difference between a cloaked Falcon and an uncloaked Rook? Does it really come down to those few seconds of targeting delay after decloak?
The difference is that you can see the Falcon on dscan when it enters the system, but you can't see the Rook. Previously no ship could enter a wormhole unnoticed.
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MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
30
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:33:24 -
[403] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:I predict Ishtars: Online will become Combat Recons: Online. Nope. The Ishtars will eat the recons alive any time the two of them fight unless we're talking solo. |
TuCZnak
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:33:27 -
[404] - Quote
Is there still that monument in Jita? Because if the dscan thing goes live, we'll need something to shoot at. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1058
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:35:33 -
[405] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Looking at the Rook...... it's still really a bit of a turd. It doesn't have any real "Combat" feel to it.
It needs a substantial powergrid buff and just moar something..... maybe some pppssshhhhhhh
more like this please
ROOK
Role Bonus: Cannot be detected by directional scanners
Caldari Cruiser Bonuses: 5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire 5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher damage
Recon Ships Bonuses: 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength 10% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile max velocity
Slot layout: 5H, 7M, 3L; 0(-2) turrets, 5 launchers Fittings: 600 PWG, 600 CPU reduce cpu plenty spare Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2050(+262) / 965(+9) / 960(+359) maybe buff armour and structure a bit more Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1250(+187) / 3.93/s(+.83) buff cap more too compensate for ecm cap bonus loss Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 194(+24) / .61 / 10.76s(-.04s) buff agility please Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 100km( -50km) / 259 / 10 Sensor strength: 32 Gravimetric Signature radius: 155(-18)
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists.
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
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MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
30
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:40:08 -
[406] - Quote
Actually I was wrong. Recons will be overpowered monsters capable of beating all comers. Sell your Ishtars and get arty Huginns. I promise you that will win all the fleet fights if you do this. |
Mr Ignitious
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
46
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:40:27 -
[407] - Quote
Grm Makentor wrote:>dscan immune ships with covops cloaks in w-space jesus christ what were they thinking, so mandatory scouting alts on every hole now?
... Only combat recons are getting dscan immunity, they can't use cov ops cloaks.
Curse has too many slots, Huginn appears to have too few, and the lachesis... needs more suitable weapon bonuses but I don't have suggestions for it other than for it to go full missiles.
Dscan immunity is a good thing. Right now people rat with impunity. There is no "risk vs reward" except for log in traps. Interceptors go god speed now and still can't even catch CARRIERS because of local and dscan. Anyone ratting just has to be aligned (and they will be) and warp out. Maybe, finally, carebears in null will incur losses. Or, better yet, people will escalate ganks and defend the farmers. Then everyone will have more fun.
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Aralieus
The Inf1dels
233
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:42:58 -
[408] - Quote
Love the changes
Curse is going to be w-space beast now!
Oderint Dum Metuant
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ArmyOfMe
PILGRIMS Advent of Fate
396
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:46:17 -
[409] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Appreciate all the discussion. The work day is ending here so I'll let this continue tonight and talk over the feedback with my colleagues in the morning and then get back to you with responses to specific issues.
Thanks Do not give in, this is a awesome change for recons, and i cant wait to try them out as solo ships
QUOTE CCP Dolan and the EVE Online development team:-áThe battle was relatively even for some time with CFC and Russian forces holding moderate lead at first and only have a slight lead in Titan kills. Then came a turning point in the battle. Manfred Sideous, the initial Fleet Commander for PL/N3, handed over command to the CEO of Northern Coalition., Vince Draken
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
75
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:47:30 -
[410] - Quote
Gorski Car wrote:MukkBarovian wrote:This is ridiculous.
- "I warp in 2 fite 2 vexor and they also have 2 rook." Yes this will happen but with the current rules you could warp in to 2 vexors and have 2 falcons decloak on you. Nothing is stopping anybody from doing that.
-"Wormholes are unlivable." What? Wormholes have all kinds of cloaky things in them all the time. Between the cloaky T3s, the Covops, the Recons and the Stratios its pretty dumb to just wander around without being cloaky. A bomber can target and point you instantly after decloak. A Huginn will have to land on grid decloaked and burn over to you uncloaked. (You're an idiot if you sit within point range of the warp in.) Sure the Huginn is tankier than a single bomber, but its not outright superior as a tackler.
This is amazingly dumb. There are so many things that already don't show up in WH directional scan that I just don't get why combat recons are some kind of serious problem. Whats the difference between a cloaked Falcon and an uncloaked Rook? Does it really come down to those few seconds of targeting delay after decloak? How about the upside that you can at least find out about them with probes?
-"Dscan tools are broken!" No they aren't. The cloaky falcon also didn't show up on the Dscan of the enemy fleet.
-"10 arty Huginn..." Sure the hidden arty Huginn got a slight buff. But 9 arty Rapiers and an instalock bomber can currently create the same effect. You don't see them on scan. They can point you instantly. They blap anemically for the number of ships involved. Somehow I don't regularly worry about cloaky arty Rapier fleets right now. I fully agree so many scrubs here fear mongering that this will end wh pve, fw pvp, solo pvp etc... Recons were weak compared to t3s, eafs and sometimes even t1 ewar ships.
True. I fly belli more than huginn just because its bonuses meshed well. The only huginn i had fun with had 500dps, but cost about what 5-6 fully fit bellis did, and was still pretty ****.
im willing to try this, i dont think this will be as game breaking as people claim. And im in FW daily. Quite simple really, if i want to med plex, find a low pop system and plex away. For systems i regularly travel, im familiar with what space junk is on dscan. Add new ships on dscan compared to local, does total ship = local? Yes? All ships accounted for. No? Prob a recon floating around.
You want to plex amamake or some other high population/pirate ridden system? Should probably be in a gang anyway. Low pop fw systems will be largely unaffected.
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Edwin Wyatt
In Utter Darkness
64
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:49:24 -
[411] - Quote
Again CCP strikes with another ill though out changes to recons.
So my option is to fly a ship that can cloak and I can pick my targets, range and time to strike, or I can fly around in a so called combat recon ship that cannot be seen by directional scanners, 99% of high sec don't use d-scanner. This will only be useful for harassing players who enjoy faction warfare, running anoms or missions in populated lowsec systems and WH space.
You fail to see how these ships are currently used and draw up this encourage others to use the combat recon ships.
Increase DPS in combat recons to HAC levels, they are paper thin and use EW to tank a target. Why are all damps and tracking disrupters scripted but not warp disrupters or scramblers,Target painters and ECM?
You need to focus on simpler changes, that only affect the change item directly and not make up arbitrary changes that have cascading effects on the entire universe, a great example is "Teams". Complicated solution to such a simple problem!
Good luck CCP, I believe you will truly need it in the months to come.
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Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
418
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:49:40 -
[412] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:-I need to point this out since it keeps popping up in this thread like a demented gopher and needs to be put down: The Huginn should not get missiles. Core Complexion ships in this game have missiles as part of their identity with the new balance meta, so Boundless Creation ships shouldn't be getting it at all in any instance. You want a TP bonus on a t2 missile cruiser? Tough sh*t! Caldari are the ones who need the bloody TP bonuses to compliment their missiles; minmatar just needs something else like web strength or extra combat usability. Web range is a bonus as effective if not more so in pvp since it is the literal definition of range control. They should have fixed this a LONG time ago but it's never once been addressed. Hm. You raise a good point about the corporate tendencies. I p.much never think about that (frankly, because I think it adds very little to the game). This does pretty efficiently neuter the Huginn, though. Rapier or Lach will be better for anything that I can think of off the top of my head. Am I missing a use case, perhaps in FW?
pssh. The Lach will get great for those nano-shield gangs and nothing else. |
Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
55
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:50:20 -
[413] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:MukkBarovian wrote: Whats the difference between a cloaked Falcon and an uncloaked Rook? Does it really come down to those few seconds of targeting delay after decloak?
The difference is that you can see the Falcon on dscan when it enters the system, but you can't see the Rook. Previously no ship could enter a wormhole unnoticed.
Unless you put a listening picket on the wormhole. Or have someone with combat probes out to see him instantly.
this is absolutely no different than running a site in a wormhole which is larger than 14.3AU across where the wormhole is off of d-scan. Except this is safer for you because it takes one button push of the combat scanner to light up his presence like a Christmas tree.
If he's going to warp in on you in an anomaly, it'll be at zero from the warpin. If you're not a dope, you won't be within 30km or so, and will be able to warp out. You are still at a much greater risk of an astero than you are of any combat recon bogeyman. |
Trii Seo
693
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:50:39 -
[414] - Quote
The pilgrim could use some of its old neuting strength bonus, not just range - especially with Curse being dscan-proof.
With Rapier and Arazu being your primary tackle&cyno ships due to, well, their bonused tackle (and the fact that they can fit the typical hunting setup of 2 cynos + probes + cloak without gimping themselves, since their job-slots are mids - unlike the Pilgrim which uses high slots primarily).
Other than that, good changes all around.
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
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Azzie Stardust
Unimpressed Collectors
1
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:54:13 -
[415] - Quote
> Combat Recons no longer show up on d-scan.
This is rly big gamechanger. EVE will never be the same. Maybe you should send some industries team to re-check that. |
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
71
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:54:14 -
[416] - Quote
Levina Windstar wrote:Discomanco wrote:MukkBarovian wrote:This is ridiculous.
- "I warp in 2 fite 2 vexor and they also have 2 rook." Yes this will happen but with the current rules you could warp in to 2 vexors and have 2 falcons decloak on you. Nothing is stopping anybody from doing that.
-"Wormholes are unlivable." What? Wormholes have all kinds of cloaky things in them all the time. Between the cloaky T3s, the Covops, the Recons and the Stratios its pretty dumb to just wander around without being cloaky. A bomber can target and point you instantly after decloak. A Huginn will have to land on grid decloaked and burn over to you uncloaked. (You're an idiot if you sit within point range of the warp in.) Sure the Huginn is tankier than a single bomber, but its not outright superior as a tackler.
This is amazingly dumb. There are so many things that already don't show up in WH directional scan that I just don't get why combat recons are some kind of serious problem. Whats the difference between a cloaked Falcon and an uncloaked Rook? Does it really come down to those few seconds of targeting delay after decloak? How about the upside that you can at least find out about them with probes?
-"Dscan tools are broken!" No they aren't. The cloaky falcon also didn't show up on the Dscan of the enemy fleet.
-"10 arty Huginn..." Sure the hidden arty Huginn got a slight buff. But 9 arty Rapiers and an instalock bomber can currently create the same effect. You don't see them on scan. They can point you instantly. They blap anemically for the number of ships involved. Somehow I don't regularly worry about cloaky arty Rapier fleets right now. Pretty much well said. I have never seen any concern about wormhole due to the huge amount of cloaked danger there's already out there, so people just whine to whine right now. I can understand the concern for FW though, but I guess you just have to prepare for the worst. It's nice to see so many comments regarding WH coming from ppl who actually doesn't live there and have no clue of what they are talking about . Anyway, it's your opinion so it's fine, and mine is I think a ship that is immune to D-Scane is too OP in WH. Hell, I'll be the first one to use it but I still think this is too OP and need at least some balance and/or huge drawback. I have lived in WHs, granted it was not for long but I lived there. Everything I saw coming in to kill me was cloaky. Everything. What would the Combat Recons change? Those I can actually see landing on grid and have a chance to get out before I get tackled. |
Xercodo
Vector Galactic Did he say Jump
3919
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Posted - 2014.12.18 19:57:53 -
[417] - Quote
Kyle Yanowski wrote:On Forced Recon changes:
Limiting the feature of DSCAN immunity to a single class of ships is somewhat folly. I personally feel that that DSCAN immunity should be reserved for a module or rig. Thus giving capsuleers a choice on reducing DPS, or Tank, or Maneuverability in favor of anonymity.
Force Recon implies that these ships should fill a reconnaissance role in fleets (or solo). My proposal is simple:
Force Recon Role Bonus: 200% increase to DSCAN effective range instead of what is currently proposed. This will give the ships a significant role in fleet through the ability to quickly scan down systems as well as in solo.
Good idea, however would require some potentially significant back end changes as dscan is limited by the range of values for a 32-bit integer right now and nothing else as far as I can tell. I don't know how hard it'd be for CCP to change the datatype underneath but they would also need to put in extra work to ensure that the current limit is maintained artificially instead of automatically being capped by data type limitations.
The Drake is a Lie
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
254
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Posted - 2014.12.18 20:00:42 -
[418] - Quote
I'd like to see Pilgrim get something in between it's current bonus and the proposed one.... Bit of a range bonus, but bit of an amount bonus. Considering it's already slower and less tanky than the Curse, plus pretty much stuck with an armour tank it could do with some extra neuting to counter the Curse imo. |
Nova' Darkstar
Dark Star Operations.
10
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Posted - 2014.12.18 20:00:44 -
[419] - Quote
After the initial "Omg no combat recons on d-scan? that would be hilarious!" thoughts wore-off, and I actually realized what this would do, I am going to have to put my vote against making combat recons immune to d-scan.
It is way too over powered, and this is coming from a pure cov-ops/recon pilot. Not only does this hurt small gang/solo PVP, and FW (Curse sitting in a medium plex? goodbye almost anything that warps in) but it will also make any bears that are piracy targets insanely risk averse since they will always be expecting a curse or something sitting somewhere in system waiting to land on them. It will actually make low-sec/wh even more dead due to bears just not going there at all because they will be expecting the worst. At least they go there now and have d-scan as a little cushion of security which makes them feel a little safer. If they know they won't feel safe at all, it isn't really "lol yeah bears! in your face! can't wait to gank you!" because they simply will just not be there to gank. Making such a drastic and over powered change might seem like a great buff, but when a change is so overpowered, people won't even try to fight it and thus you have less pew and no targets to even use your super awesome new buff on.
I also am going to have to put a vote against swapping the Pilgrims neut/nos strength bonus with range. The Pilgrim is a great solo/small gang boat, and is known for being a very close range heavy tackle ship that takes a while to grind down it's opponent. Swapping the strength bonus for range bonus kind of takes away some of the reason to even fly a Pilgrim over the Curse at all in addition with the new d-scan changes. With the Curse, you need the range because you can be seen on grid when you land. With the Pilgrim, you need the strength because you are de-cloaking on-top of them anyway since you are most likely heavy tackle in a small gang, or solo.
The other buffs to their tanks and bringing them in line with HAC tanks look great.
tl:dr
-No on the d-scan immunity for combat recons
-No on the Pilgrim swapping it's neut/nos strength bonus for a range bonus because why not just fly a Curse then?
Everything else looks good. |
Kyle Yanowski
Aideron Robotics
150
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Posted - 2014.12.18 20:00:46 -
[420] - Quote
Edwin Wyatt wrote:Again CCP strikes with another ill though out changes to recons.
Feller, you do know that this is a Features and Ideas forum? Soliciting the community for feedback on an idea...
Host of the High Drag Eve Online Podcast ( http://highdrag.wordpress.com).
Director of Aideron Robotics.
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