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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
54
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Posted - 2014.12.28 15:47:34 -
[2011] - Quote
Shouldn't the tracking bonus on the Lachesis be 7.5 per level? 10% seems a bit high when combined with the optimal bonus. Not sure if its been mentioned in all this d- scan discussion. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
894
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Posted - 2014.12.28 18:24:14 -
[2012] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote: And this is all irrelevant: If he's paying attention, he will avoid you. If he isn't, you will catch him. This is exactly as it is now. D-Scan immunity only provides the illusion of safety, which is why after this change you will find more combat recons being successfully probed down and killed than before.
You know, I'm kinda concerned what would happen if I told you the impact cloaks have on both D-Scan and probing.
It is absolutely relevant, because it vastly decreases the effort threshold required to not get caught, which in turn vastly decreases the benefits of bringing a cloak, which totally breaks the relationship between the force recons and the combat recons. Obviously fitting a cloak makes a ship impossible to probe out, but that's exactly why the ships that are designed around that mechanic make other sacrifices that combat recons do not. |
Arla Sarain
222
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Posted - 2014.12.28 18:35:49 -
[2013] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote: you will find more combat recons being successfully probed down and killed than before.
Do you know how combat probing works? Half of it relies on D-SCAN. No Combat recon is going to get probed down unless they are AFK.
Just stop already. D-SCAN immunity is dumb. |
warbds
Stoli Holdings
9
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Posted - 2014.12.28 20:06:14 -
[2014] - Quote
Dumb indeed. WH space is now only for big alliances. Creating content no destroying you mean! Small corporations can't do anything in wormholes which was restricted after the last dumb wormhole patch really do you have brains?
Or do you only want big alliances? Which I personaly hate!!!
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Devil Seven
Objectless Hatred. Legion Galactic Council
2
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Posted - 2014.12.28 21:48:12 -
[2015] - Quote
warbds wrote:Dumb indeed. WH space is now only for big alliances. Creating content no destroying you mean! Small corporations can't do anything in wormholes which was restricted after the last dumb wormhole patch really do you have brains?
Or do you only want big alliances? Which I personaly hate!!!
W-space is unaffected by the d-scan change as you have probe looking for you or being used by you and a fleet will still use interdictors and hics to catch you and w-space normaly intended for bigger alliances as it's like null sec |
Devil Seven
Objectless Hatred. Legion Galactic Council
2
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Posted - 2014.12.28 21:51:01 -
[2016] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Komi Toran wrote: you will find more combat recons being successfully probed down and killed than before.
Do you know how combat probing works? Half of it relies on D-SCAN. No Combat recon is going to get probed down unless they are AFK. Just stop already. D-SCAN immunity is dumb.
There are a lot of idiots in eve |
Generaloberst Kluntz
Isogen 5
75
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Posted - 2014.12.28 21:53:48 -
[2017] - Quote
Devil Seven wrote:warbds wrote:Dumb indeed. WH space is now only for big alliances. Creating content no destroying you mean! Small corporations can't do anything in wormholes which was restricted after the last dumb wormhole patch really do you have brains?
Or do you only want big alliances? Which I personaly hate!!!
W-space is unaffected by the d-scan change as you have probe looking for you or being used by you and a fleet will still use interdictors and hics to catch you and w-space normaly intended for bigger alliances as it's like null sec
Nope either. Wspace in majority does not complain about dscan immunity and we actually like it. But it's not intended for large alliances lolwat. |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
140
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Posted - 2014.12.28 23:24:09 -
[2018] - Quote
Generaloberst Kluntz wrote: Nope either. Wspace in majority does not complain about dscan immunity and we actually like it. But it's not intended for large alliances lolwat.
That-¦s funny since almost everybody I talked to thinks it is a ****** change. It will keep soloplayers out of the lowerclasses so less people to play with and shoot at. Ofc this does not matter for the higherclasses where a few recons are no threat to your farming but just some more salvage after dreadblapping. And the reasoning for this new mechanic is "it is cool and more fights will happen because of bad intel"...... |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
615
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Posted - 2014.12.28 23:39:31 -
[2019] - Quote
Paynus Maiassus wrote:Actually you can nerf them pretty severely and they will still have a lot of uses.
Just not WH. Which is what they're built for.
A sufficiently heavy T3 nerf demands a massive WH shakeup. |
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
176
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Posted - 2014.12.29 01:12:00 -
[2020] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Don't forget that things will rarely progress to this stage (scanning every system) anyway, because of the high possibility that the random unaccounted for dude in system is either cloaked or docked. In a lot of instances people will just move on through without even looking, because the effort required to find the combat recon is high and the possibility of being rewarded with a kill is very low. Unless people watched a recon enter the system and warp off to a safe, they're not going to bother. You realize that you have just changed your argument entirely, you've literally pointed out exactly why there's nothing wrong with dscan immunity, because it will be no different than it is now. That extra person in local is either cloaked/docked, if cloaked he may show up on grid with you, if docked you have nothing to worry about. In the case of dscan immunity its the same thing. He's either in a combat recon somewhere, or docked - the same outcome will take place.
In the case of wormhole systems, any corporation living in w-space is going to have an active prober on pretty much all the time anyway, so yea the scanning will take place, and they will likely have every ship sig scanned out ahead of time anyway, new sig shows up with nothing on dscan, looks like theres a combat recon in system time to take precautions. |
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Akemon Numon
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2014.12.29 01:38:48 -
[2021] - Quote
Looks like the 'let's give Recons too many buffs and then keep the one we (ccp) wanted from before we even released info on the patch change. Let them argue for a few hundred pages and then go with what we intended from the beginning. See players you do make a "difference" and we monitored and followed the discourse closely, however... |
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
66
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Posted - 2014.12.29 01:44:35 -
[2022] - Quote
Akemon Numon wrote:Looks like the 'let's give Recons too many buffs and then keep the one we (ccp) wanted from before we even released info on the patch change. Let them argue for a few hundred pages and then go with what we intended from the beginning. See players you do make a "difference" and we monitored and followed the discourse closely, however...
People cried, the resists got rolled back.
Your argument is invalid. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
481
|
Posted - 2014.12.29 02:00:13 -
[2023] - Quote
was gonna probably stay for this t2 res recons but meh, now that to many cry babies who got wronged by a curse somewhere cried enough to get t2 res takin off.
cry more you babies. maybe you can get t1 frigates nerfed as well while your at it.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
481
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Posted - 2014.12.29 02:02:41 -
[2024] - Quote
Generaloberst Kluntz wrote:Squatdog wrote:Quote:Faction warfare plexes are, at present, run by FRIGATES. Very rarely you will see a few corps that run cruiser gangs. So, if you want the medium LP, maybe bring something that wont be instablapped by awaiting recon ships. Everyone complains about how FW is broken, but I think this will finally start enticing players to use something other than t1 frigs to pvp with. Nothing is stopping FW fleets from ALSO bringing recon fleets, and the Dscan immunity works both ways. T1 frigates typically have NOWHERE NEAR enough DPS to effectively run medium plexes. Stick to what you know. Nope. nope what? name me 50% of the t1 frigates that typicaly can run medium plexs? hell give me even 33% of t1 frigates that can.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
178
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Posted - 2014.12.29 03:33:27 -
[2025] - Quote
Quote:nope what? name me 50% of the t1 frigates that typicaly can run medium plexs? hell give me even 33% of t1 frigates that can.
The players applauding D-scan immunity are almost invariably gankbears and noobs (and their alts) who don't know how the game mechanics actually work.
I too would like to hear about these med-farming T1 frigs. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
504
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Posted - 2014.12.29 04:14:25 -
[2026] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:It is absolutely relevant, because it vastly decreases the effort threshold required to not get caught, Oh please. You look at D-Scan. Do you see combat probes within x AU? Warp off. That's the effort it takes now. That's the effort it will take in the future. Actually, scratch that, it will take more effort in the future as before you could actually wait until there were ships on D-Scan before warping off. Now, you have to consider that the prober is warping combat recons of their own on top of you.
Arla Sarain wrote:Do you know how combat probing works? Half of it relies on D-SCAN. You rely so heavily on D-Scan because it is the most convinient tool available. Remove it, and suddenly the spread formation has a use (among several other strategies).
Arla Sarain wrote:No Combat recon is going to get probed down unless they are AFK. Strange. That's exactly how it is now, and yet the game has survived.
Arla Sarain wrote:Just stop already. D-SCAN immunity is dumb. I counter your offer with HTFU. The tools to deal with this exist in game already. Learn to use them. Or don't and whine. |
SuperSpyScoutGirl
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.12.29 05:56:50 -
[2027] - Quote
Quick question just to ensure I am right.
Hypothetically if I am operating in hostile territory without docking rights, it will be possible for me to eject from my combat recon in order to change ships and the recon will still not appear on d-scan because the immunity is a property of the ship, not a property of the piloted ship?
Of course, the ship will still be scannable with combats (or within a scan inhibited area that will be scannable), but I can deal with that. Just want to be certain of the mechanics so I can plan to be able to use a couple of ships when I don't have any other support close at hand. |
Akemon Numon
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2014.12.29 06:17:18 -
[2028] - Quote
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:Akemon Numon wrote:Looks like the 'let's give Recons too many buffs and then keep the one we (ccp) wanted from before we even released info on the patch change. Let them argue for a few hundred pages and then go with what we intended from the beginning. See players you do make a "difference" and we monitored and followed the discourse closely, however... People cried, the resists got rolled back. Your argument is invalid. in-+va-+lid is your reading skills, go back to the beginning of the thread and READ the posts to the point where ccp backtracked the Resists. Almost not a negative word about them, and most applauded them. And this is not an argument. It is an observation of a repeated method by which ccp makes these unpopular changes to the game. |
Wynta
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.12.29 08:10:07 -
[2029] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:I still get the feeling that most of the people in this thread saying, "Dude, all you need is a ship with combat probes," have never had to probe anything. Have fun when you get to some ~60au system and need to probe out a recon that's moving around the system periodically. Hint: the only way you'll ever get a fix on the recon is sheer luck.
If it is constantly hopping around system wont it also be difficult to DSCAN it
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Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
447
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Posted - 2014.12.29 10:01:42 -
[2030] - Quote
ivona fly wrote:Quote: ROOK Caldari Cruiser Bonuses: 7.5% bonus to kinetic missile damage (was 5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire) 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer activation cost
Recon Ships Bonuses: 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength 10% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile max velocity
Slot layout: 5H, 7M, 3L; 2 turrets, 5 launchers Fittings: 680 PWG(+80), 600 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2050(+262) / 965(+9) / 960(+359) Capacitor (amount / capacitor per second) : 1250(+187) / 3.93/s(+.83) Mobility (max velocity / agility / align time): 194(+24) / .61 / 10.76s(-.04s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 150km / 259 / 10 Sensor strength: 32 Gravimetric Signature radius: 170(-3)
Please no, I hate this one damage type thing, and seeing as you say the changes are in part, to allow it to fight vs T3 and T2 well : Ishtar, Eagle, Cerb, Tengu and proteus will not even take damage from it because of 90% resists. and outside the Loki (used instead of recon) and Legion they are what I see used the most in these types of battles. Well seen as you are not giving them any tank none of my my post matters, they will just get crushed in fleets now anyway put whatever weapons on them and leave them as the paranoia-cons :) While it is lamentable for a variety of reasons to be locked into a single damage bonus, the fact remains that it is actually quite a lot more viable this way as a RLM boat than even the Caracal to an extent. The straight single damage bonus means that in addition to not having to worry about swapping between multiple ammo types, the alpha damage without the RoF bonus means you do more with less, so you the missiles you DO have before the reload timer cuts out count for more. I wish they'd give it a bonus to light missile velocity, tho. |
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Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
447
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Posted - 2014.12.29 10:08:10 -
[2031] - Quote
Shaleb Heworo wrote:It is NOT aybout fw complexes. If you enforce uncertainty on people they will just retreat to the next level of relative certainty meaing they won't warp to places without preprobing it. This will severly limit the freedom of movement for small gangs and solo players since the smaller the gang the less likely they can afford a dedicated prober/fit an expanded probe launcher on their breacher
You have to give people TOOLS that create margin for error and you have to create and environnement where people move freely under the pretense of relative security. I'm sorry, but there seem to be basic misundertstandings of player/human behaviour that drive these changes. It's really hard to watch. I really think this is a serious misconception on yours and a lot of other peoples' part. The dscan immunity won't magically change how people like myself in FW play mainly due to the fact that we either travel in groups or the stuff we fly solo is either very cheap or very mobile. Cowering in fear over combat recons is laughably stupid since you can either get friends or fight in one of the smaller complexes. It literally changes nothing for how we do things, other than getting a surprise fight or two. At most it makes cruiser fights in complexes a little more interesting, since while we have to watch out for them bringing combat recons to the fight, the same deal wtih with arazus and falcons currently exists anyway, so it's a non-issue. I predict a lot more Curses being used for the cruiser fleets, I think. |
Arla Sarain
228
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Posted - 2014.12.29 11:08:09 -
[2032] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:It is absolutely relevant, because it vastly decreases the effort threshold required to not get caught, Oh please. You look at D-Scan. Do you see combat probes within x AU? Warp off. That's the effort it takes now. That's the effort it will take in the future. Actually, scratch that, it will take more effort in the future as before you could actually wait until there were ships on D-Scan before warping off. Now, you have to consider that the prober is warping combat recons of their own on top of you. Arla Sarain wrote:Do you know how combat probing works? Half of it relies on D-SCAN. You rely so heavily on D-Scan because it is the most convinient tool available. Remove it, and suddenly the spread formation has a use (among several other strategies). Arla Sarain wrote:No Combat recon is going to get probed down unless they are AFK. Strange. That's exactly how it is now, and yet the game has survived. Arla Sarain wrote:Just stop already. D-SCAN immunity is dumb. I counter your offer with HTFU. The tools to deal with this exist in game already. Learn to use them. Or don't and whine. Combat recon sees your probes in spread formation. Combat recon warps.
Good luck catching combat recons with D-SCAN immunity. |
Dvesk Sunie
Dark-Rising Federation
45
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Posted - 2014.12.29 11:09:24 -
[2033] - Quote
I read most of post concerning Pilgrim changes.
There are people who think that range is great and neut amount can be neglected. And there are those who think amount can not be neglected.
As we all know Pilgrim has always suffered from range restrictions. Yes, you can choose what or when to engage , but if you are engaging more than 1 target ( happens a lot in solo pvp! ) and one of them can kite, after you kill what you can, you will be a sitting duck. Your drones would NOT be able to catch 4.5-5 km/s speeding Raptor or any other inty and you would just sit there and might as well eject.
So I think to make it more balanced and viable, I would really love to see pilgrim maintaining it's Neut Amount Bonus, because that is what it made it so awesome to fly even against cap-boosted ships, as you could still neut them out, BUT adding SOME range. Why not give it Dragoon like or smaller ( Dragoon has 20%) neut range bonus?
With 10% Neut and Vampire range, Pilgrim Medium Neutralizers would have 19km range with RECON 5. That is 61% more neut range. It still keeps Pilgrim inside "brawling" field, but now it can actually neut targets before they get on top of you,or after lighting a Cyno it can be used ot neut target which are , well at 19km from you.
And in all honesty, If you take dragoon as basic ship for that line, I see two possible lines:
Both lines focus on TD Bonuses, as well as Arbitrator, which makes perfect sense. But then, mixing two ship bonuses to match one another is a bad way in order to make them special and unique.
The way I see specalized Amarr Recon ships :
Pilgrim - CLOAK+Strong Neut amount(40% bonus )+Small range(10-15% bonus)+SLOW+ARMOR Cruse - NO CLOAK + SMALLER NEUT AMOUNT(10-15% bonus )+ HIGH RANGE(40% bonus)+ FAST+ SHIELD
I think that is what CCP should be aiming for in specializing ships.
Other than that, Might as well change nothing, Neut range was the only difficulty with the Pilgrim. Just a SLIGHT change to it might do wonders. When I saw that CCP Hammer going down on Pilgrim neut amount it almost made my cry. No no no, dont fix it if it ain't broken.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop playing eve, start living it
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
615
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Posted - 2014.12.29 11:20:11 -
[2034] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Good luck catching combat recons with D-SCAN immunity.
Nobody actively trying to avoid probes is ever getting caught if they're not afk. This is hardly a "new" thing. |
Oxide Ammar
188
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Posted - 2014.12.29 11:28:55 -
[2035] - Quote
Think about it the other way, recon ships became best ship for ratting and exploring, especially the Rook
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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Beidorion eldwardan
Corporation Danmark Tactical Narcotics Team
22
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Posted - 2014.12.29 11:33:47 -
[2036] - Quote
For the love of god - throw away that ****** d-scan idea and give us the resist profile
-¦just to point something out - a recon need to use a minimum of two slots for prob mod and function so in effect its not going to have a great tank AND renom function as it stand now they are simply to weak. the reletive low amount of ships it takes to alpha one of the field means that its not a viable option for fleets
and also - 4 lowslots does not an armor tank make
so total do over or pleae admit that you really have no clue as to how we use the ships you let us play with until you break them... again
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
141
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Posted - 2014.12.29 12:15:41 -
[2037] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:Good luck catching combat recons with D-SCAN immunity. Nobody actively trying to avoid probes is ever getting caught if they're not afk. This is hardly a "new" thing.
Actively avoiding is one thing, but a good combatprober will get you within one cycle so about 6 secs scantime + 2-4 warptime of the probes. Without d-scan you will most likely need 3 or more cycles, around a 30 second window, way too long to catch anyone not multiboxing 3+ accounts. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
588
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Posted - 2014.12.29 13:29:44 -
[2038] - Quote
Looking forward to setting up some traps in low sec with combat recons.
3 of you in local. Put 3 cheap mining barges in the belt/ice field.
Get into your CR's and sit and wait for them to warp to what looks like a mining fleet. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
840
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Posted - 2014.12.29 13:45:31 -
[2039] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Looking forward to setting up some traps in low sec with combat recons.
3 of you in local. Put 3 cheap mining barges in the belt/ice field.
Get into your CR's and sit and wait for them to warp to what looks like a mining fleet. Get two buddies with you so the number of ships on dscan equals amount of people in local. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14376
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Posted - 2014.12.29 13:47:20 -
[2040] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote: Combat recon sees your probes in spread formation. Combat recon warps.
Good luck catching combat recons with D-SCAN immunity.
How is this any different to me bouncing safes in a mega?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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