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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Thorin Matarielle
Shirak SkunkWorks
12
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Posted - 2015.01.15 02:06:31 -
[2311] - Quote
Dani Maulerant wrote:At this point, how about we just use this thread now to post the KM's or at least name characters known to pull this BS, killing solo/FW, and all us sensible people can then add them to a 'dont-warp-to--any-plex-if-in-local' listing.
Pretty much everone does this... I cant mark half of lowsec becuse he did it once or twice. :) This is just lame and I dont say this because i died to them (not yet at least) but they are using a cruiser as bait and 4 recons sitting next to it. If you decide to go in and do a nice cruiser brawl...well...just dont do it.
http://i.imgur.com/eLQUuWo.png ^^ Caracal in medium. RIP Brave cruiser pilots. And as I've said earlier, we wanted to go in with two cruisers and they ran away saying: thats too much we cant fight those.
SlavaKing << this nerd and his friends cant recall their names. Guess this is his only way to ***** on some kills.
As one of my friend have said this today:
I can imagine the CCP game design meeting "what if we take the falcon, make it stronger and remove it from dscan" "LETS DO IT"
These changes are killing solo pvp and im kinda disappointed to see that... |
Dani Maulerant
Order of the Valkyrie LOADED-DICE
15
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Posted - 2015.01.15 03:57:47 -
[2312] - Quote
Thorin Matarielle wrote:Pretty much everone does this... I cant mark half of lowsec becuse he did it once or twice. :) This is just lame and I dont say this because i died to them (not yet at least) but they are using a cruiser as bait and 4 recons sitting next to it. If you decide to go in and do a nice cruiser brawl...well...just dont do it. http://i.imgur.com/eLQUuWo.png ^^ Caracal in medium. RIP Brave cruiser pilots. And as I've said earlier, we wanted to go in with two cruisers and they ran away saying: thats too much we cant fight those. SlavaKing << this nerd and his friends cant recall their names. Guess this is his only way to ***** on some kills. As one of my friend have said this today: I can imagine the CCP game design meeting "what if we take the falcon, make it stronger and remove it from dscan" "LETS DO IT"These changes are killing solo pvp and im kinda disappointed to see that...
FW already has a major problem of people rarely bringing out anything larger than frigs/dessies on repeat, and this sort of thing just really hammers it more securely in that novices and smalls look more appealing with the added fact of these recons can't enter. Sad to see it be this way, and now staying this way a while longer is even sadder.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
159
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Posted - 2015.01.15 05:25:27 -
[2313] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Dani Maulerant wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:How is it any different if they had a Falcon? Or any other cloaked ship? Cloak hulls have a targeting delay. D-scan immune are inta-lock soon as you make visual contact with it. He's using a Curse and a Dragoon. Presumably these poor souls are warping in thinking they will be fighting just a Dragoon. When they land, there is also a Curse there. Still not much different if he had any other cloaked ship present. As for the lack of decloaking delay - he could achieve the same effect by decloaking the cloaky as soon as you appear on close d-scan. By the time you land, the cloaking delay would be gone.
you cant cloak in a plex anymore. It use to be really fun to sit in plex and kill things with cloakies |
Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
4
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Posted - 2015.01.15 07:57:57 -
[2314] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote: How is it any different if they had a Falcon? Or any other cloaked ship?
Perhaps not very different in this case, I guess any cloaked one could take a cheap fitted t1 cruiser trying to solo a FW plex.
VERY different when talking about Wspace. Major differences are:
If you dscan like a maniac (as you should) you can always catch the cloakies when entering the system, at the split second they decloak-recloak at the entrance and avoid the fight alltogether.
Cloaked recons do not have the same combat potential as their dscan immune cousins and are not a real match for any sleeper fitted T3 cruiser. Or maybe they are a match when skillfuly used but you wouldn't call it an easy kill. So, even when you risk taking on an anomaly outside of the entrances scan range you just took the risk of fighting the occasional Pilgrim who was brave enough to take you on. In most cases and with the help of sleeper site mechanics, I would manage to blow up these brave souls even before their reinforcements could land on site.
Note of interest : The cloaked ones come first in an attempt to catch me unawares, if they all try to land on me at once d-scan will inform me of it. Well, NOT ANYMORE since we can now have whole fleets of dscan immune "bastards" (:P) coming and going as they please and ganking people silly.
I said it before and I'll say it again (and again and again) : This stupidly unfair immunity does not even give people (targets) a chance to defend themselves. I am not the kind of person to nag in the forums about this and that, but this is an exception. It will kill solo plexing and smalltime WH activity, and unless thats what is intended please consider taking it back, we will all agree it was a bad dream of sorts.
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Orange Faeces
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
43
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Posted - 2015.01.15 08:40:25 -
[2315] - Quote
I want you to post all your losses to Combat Recons in this thread. All of you. Lets get this thread up to 400 pages so we can have a one-stop shop for your tears. Post them all.
O. Faeces |
Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
53
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Posted - 2015.01.15 08:51:14 -
[2316] - Quote
From the posted KMs, CCP can conclude that the rebalancing is a complete success! Prior to proteus you hardly see any Combat Recons. You see them much more often nowadays. Soon pilots will learn about it and there will be glorious combat recons loss mails. I know at least one of our corpmates already lost his combat recon.
GJ CCP! Loves the Recon rebalance.. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
191
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Posted - 2015.01.15 09:13:50 -
[2317] - Quote
Ciba Lexlulu wrote:GJ CCP! Loves the Recon rebalance.. They want to made them proper small gang/fleet vessels, what we got is gank mobile in FW, make sense...
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.
I am the night. I'm Bantam.
More exploration in exploration
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Faren Shalni
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
123
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Posted - 2015.01.15 10:18:59 -
[2318] - Quote
Dont worry it wont take long for CCP to not allow Recons into medium Plex's........ There for applying another stupid exception to cover up their poor decision.
So Much Space
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Gregor Parud
909
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Posted - 2015.01.15 11:32:54 -
[2319] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:He's using a Curse and a Dragoon. Presumably these poor souls are warping in thinking they will be fighting just a Dragoon. When they land, there is also a Curse there. Still not much different if he had any other cloaked ship present.
As for the lack of decloaking delay - he could achieve the same effect by decloaking the cloaky as soon as you appear on close d-scan. By the time you land, the cloaking delay would be gone.
On top of all that it's in Tama and they're both of the came corp and part of an alliance that effectively has shares in the local pod industry. So you'd have to be REALLY MORONICALLY STUPID to think that would be a good plan.
Simply put it makes no difference; they'll get tackled by the dessy and then either a recon uncloaks and helps out or doesn't have to uncloak and helps out. Outcome: exactly the same.
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Soldarius
Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent
1028
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Posted - 2015.01.15 15:45:09 -
[2320] - Quote
36. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.
ISDs are from what I've seen a little bit flexible and tolerant on this rule. But if you turn this thread into a kill report thread, I guarantee bad things will happen.
This is not in any way an endorsement of the d-scan immunity of Combat Recons. I'm rather neutral on it tbh.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Nyjil Lizaru
Aideron Robotics
38
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Posted - 2015.01.15 16:10:41 -
[2321] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:How is it any different if they had a Falcon? Or any other cloaked ship?
I keep seeing this question from characters who should be old enough to understand and I ask myself: troll or truly ignorant?
If you don't understand how a cloak is different from d-scan immunity, you might want to spend a bit more time investigating, reading and thinking before wasting electrons with such willful badposting.
If you're trolling, then carry on.
Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law: -á "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
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Lug Muad'Dib
Wise Humans Sword
35
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Posted - 2015.01.15 16:53:29 -
[2322] - Quote
Orange Faeces wrote:I want you to post all your losses to Combat Recons in this thread. All of you. Lets get this thread up to 400 pages so we can have a one-stop shop for your tears. Post them all. O. Faeces
Personnaly i use scouts so since update i just kill one curse, no loose. I ask my corpmates to never go in med plex already open that did'nt been scout. But it's so boring that for now i'm back playing to CK2.. will see later.
Anyway FW 's local is full of "lol hookbill in med with 2 suspect in local", as intended people avoid fight, what a good mechanic..
D-Scan immunity is dumb.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
675
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Posted - 2015.01.15 17:25:14 -
[2323] - Quote
Nyjil Lizaru wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:How is it any different if they had a Falcon? Or any other cloaked ship? I keep seeing this question from characters who should be old enough to understand and I ask myself: troll or truly ignorant? If you don't understand how a cloak is different from d-scan immunity, you might want to spend a bit more time investigating, reading and thinking before wasting electrons with such willful badposting. If you're trolling, then carry on.
If they weren't using the dragoon for the actual tackle, you might have a point. Decloaking delay is irrelevant if that ship is not the one holding tackle. This doesnt take a rocket scientist as the dragoon is doing way more damage (drones unassistable intially as they show on dscan).
Also a dragoon would crap all over half those ships on its own anyway.
And lastly, there's NOTHING stopping a half dozen recons warping into that plex and chewing out the other two ships. Door goes both ways. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2756
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Posted - 2015.01.15 19:19:21 -
[2324] - Quote
Dani Maulerant wrote:Cloak hulls have a targeting delay. D-scan immune are inta-lock soon as you make visual contact with it. Targeting delay doesn't matter once your ship is tackled.
The only REAL difference is that you have a chance of spotting a cloaky recon with your D-Scan when he gets decloaked (which is unlikely if they are already set up when you jump into system). If you don't have eyes directly on the combat recon you'll never know he's there even if you are in system. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
113
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Posted - 2015.01.15 19:31:50 -
[2325] - Quote
My solo perspective the past couple days in minny FW.
Havent been ganked by a recon dunk squad yet. Ive seen them warping around, hitting gates and such. But havent warped into a plex with em waiting.
If i suspect recon dunk squad i warp at 100 to larges, or, open a new medium. Right now if im missing people on dscan compared to local then i move on to the next system. For example, i saw 7 people in local, warped around dscanning like a mofo. No one on scan? Good chance its a recon squad.
I was roaming in a bc and occasionally my newly buffed rapier (which is almost immune to this issue). i think there is going to be an adjustment phase for everyone , but its not "gg fw". You will have to rely on the available tools and common sense instead of dscan telling us everything. There are PLENTY of systems to cap, not all of them are occupied. If you cant plex a system or are unsure of whats waiting, move on. Its not like EVE doesnt have thousands of systems.
FW is a group effort for actual progress. If you really want to have a semi level playing field, invite your militia buddies into a fleet. Otherwise pick your plexes carefully. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
191
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Posted - 2015.01.15 20:08:12 -
[2326] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote: was roaming in a bc and occasionally my newly buffed rapier (which is almost immune to this issue). i think there is going to be an adjustment phase for everyone , but its not "gg fw". You will have to rely on the available tools and common sense instead of dscan telling us everything. There are PLENTY of systems to cap, not all of them are occupied. If you cant plex a system or are unsure of whats waiting, move on. Its not like EVE doesnt have thousands of systems. but... but... what happend to:
CCP Rise wrote: Take the example given somewhere in this thread of a low sec camp with 2 Vexors and 2 Rooks. Before these changes, the gang considering fighting them never would because they know they can't deal with the Rooks. After, they won't see them and so they will probably engage. That's more fights because people are risk averse. Yes Rise, and after they lose some ships that way they will start to:
CCP Rise wrote:The negative side for me is your other bullet point. Because people don't want to take unnecessary risk they will work very hard, sometimes doing something very boring or difficult, just to get at those last pieces of information. And they should. But we would want to avoid mechanics that obligate people to this kind of behavior too heavily without enough positive side to make the mechanic worthwhile. So instead of fighting ppl will bring alts or scanning ships, scan plexes and move to the systems without recons waiting to gain some killmails.
afkalt wrote:And lastly, there's NOTHING stopping a half dozen recons warping into that plex and chewing out the other two ships. Door goes both ways. How fun, game build around one type of ships with ceratin trait.
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.
I am the night. I'm Bantam.
More exploration in exploration
|
Celestia Via
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance
5
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:04:07 -
[2327] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: How fun, game build around one type of ships with ceratin trait.
My uncanny powers of foresight predict low and w space soon empty of everything but combat recons trying hopelessly to gang each other. At least the rest of us can have fun watching them endure this exercise in futility.
Jokes aside, there will be people discouraged from their current activities since they now includes being ganked stupid without any means of defense. Some of them may find other, uninteresting ways to occupy themselves but some might lose the interest in the game alltogether.
Example :Stitch Kaneland wrote:If i suspect recon dunk squad i warp at 100 to larges, or, open a new medium. Right now if im missing people on dscan compared to local then i move on to the next system. For example, i saw 7 people in local, warped around dscanning like a mofo. No one on scan? Good chance its a recon squad.
I was roaming in a bc and occasionally my newly buffed rapier (which is almost immune to this issue). i think there is going to be an adjustment phase for everyone , but its not "gg fw". You will have to rely on the available tools and common sense instead of dscan telling us everything. There are PLENTY of systems to cap, not all of them are occupied. If you cant plex a system or are unsure of whats waiting, move on. Its not like EVE doesnt have thousands of systems.
FW is a group effort for actual progress. If you really want to have a semi level playing field, invite your militia buddies into a fleet. Otherwise pick your plexes carefully.
This I summarize as : Where I did plexes before, now it takes ALOT of work and time to do one, IF i am lucky enough to find a system with no one in local. I admire your persistence and optimism Stitch but most people would be discouraged and with every right to be.
Also, lets not forget that not all plexes are in FW, every single solo activity in non highsec space is actually now hindered. Could I ignore everything and still warp my ship to a solo site and hope for the best? Sure but no thanks, I dont wish to be victimized SO easily. I like to give my killers good sport at least.
So, if a small percentage of my predictions are correct, we have what?
1) Activities prone to stupid immunity ganking dropping to minimum 2) Some people being driven away from the game since their favorite activity is now a big no-no (for "some" use your own estimate, for me even one is too many) 3) Pirates losing interest in PvP and start training trade skills since the two above clauses will eventually make them run out of targets.
...and all this is good for Eve WHY? |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
1098
|
Posted - 2015.01.15 21:04:10 -
[2328] - Quote
Should have just given the combat recons cloaking devices, dropped their EWAR, added another combat trait (imo 4% resists).
Split them from Force Recons, make the unique in their ability to be Covert Ops combat cruisers (currently the Stratios and T3s are the only ships that fill this role).
But killing FW is cool, I mean its not like LS is already dead as **** everywhere but FW space, may as well make LS dead everywhere.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
113
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:27:59 -
[2329] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote: How fun, game build around one type of ships with certain trait.
My uncanny powers of foresight predict low and w space soon empty of everything but combat recons trying hopelessly to gang each other. At least the rest of us can have fun watching them endure this exercise in futility. Jokes aside, there will be people discouraged from their current activities since they now include being ganked stupid without any means of defense. Some of them may find other, uninteresting ways to occupy themselves but some might lose the interest in the game alltogether. Example : Stitch Kaneland wrote:If i suspect recon dunk squad i warp at 100 to larges, or, open a new medium. Right now if im missing people on dscan compared to local then i move on to the next system. For example, i saw 7 people in local, warped around dscanning like a mofo. No one on scan? Good chance its a recon squad.
I was roaming in a bc and occasionally my newly buffed rapier (which is almost immune to this issue). i think there is going to be an adjustment phase for everyone , but its not "gg fw". You will have to rely on the available tools and common sense instead of dscan telling us everything. There are PLENTY of systems to cap, not all of them are occupied. If you cant plex a system or are unsure of whats waiting, move on. Its not like EVE doesnt have thousands of systems.
FW is a group effort for actual progress. If you really want to have a semi level playing field, invite your militia buddies into a fleet. Otherwise pick your plexes carefully. This I summarize as : Where I did plexes before, now it takes ALOT of work and time to do one, IF i am lucky enough to find a system with no one in local. I admire your persistence and optimism Stitch but most people would be discouraged and with every right to be. Also, lets not forget that not all plexes are in FW, every single solo activity in non highsec space is actually now hindered. Could I ignore everything and still warp my ship to a solo site and hope for the best? Sure but no thanks, I dont wish to be victimized SO easily. I like to give my killers good sport at least. So, if a small percentage of my predictions are correct, we have what? 1) Activities prone to stupid immunity ganking dropping to minimum 2) Some people being driven away from the game since their favorite activity is now a big no-no (for "some" use your own estimate, for me even one is too many) 3) Pirates losing interest in PvP and start training trade skills since the two above clauses will eventually make them run out of targets. ...and all this is good for Eve WHY?
Doesnt really take much time. Added an extra 5min at most. Im not looking for only empty systems. Just less populated ones. Again, not every system is going to have recon dunk squads. Thats a strawman argument.
Maybe CCP is saying that dscan was too strong a tool. So they nerfed it. Im sure theres a plan in the future. Plus with new t3 dessies all having combat probe fitting reductions, that will make them a powerful solo boat to scan other sites or FW plexes before entering. Pretty sure 300ish dps is enough to kill the rats in a medium plex. Granted, this may not be ideal, but it is one option available to those more risk averse.
Or, use KB, look up pilots name, see recon kills. Move along. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
191
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:45:21 -
[2330] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Maybe CCP is saying that dscan was too strong a tool. Then change the way it works. Make it depend on ships class, role, range etc. Lazy "lets add d-scan immunity and see how it goes" solves what exactly? Wrong aproach from the beginning. I would jump into fight without knowing the recons are there for the first time. I won't do it again, because there might be recons...where do we have benefits from that situation?
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.
I am the night. I'm Bantam.
More exploration in exploration
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Sugar Smacks
State War Academy Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:54:50 -
[2331] - Quote
Now that you have your ship that can't be picked up on D-scan and can cloak making it virtually invisible.
When will i get my ship that has the ability to not be picked up on local chat?
Seems CCP hates wh ppl and blows nullsecers. |
Thorin Matarielle
Shirak SkunkWorks
13
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Posted - 2015.01.15 22:21:18 -
[2332] - Quote
Celestia Via wrote: My uncanny powers of foresight predict low and w space soon empty of everything but combat recons trying hopelessly to gang each other
Bienator II wrote:
well, we just tried to fight two combat recons with two combat recons but we could not find each other for 20mins.
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
278
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Posted - 2015.01.15 22:58:57 -
[2333] - Quote
Nuthin stopping you from asking in local to just fight at the sun... |
PastyWhiteDevil
Mayhem and Ruin Point Blank Alliance
5
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Posted - 2015.01.16 02:52:17 -
[2334] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote: we told you Rise. Solution: mob the **** out of them with a frig fleet and shower yourself and your buds with expensive killmails. Just be sure to send the right guys in beforehand to get point... What *exactly* is your idea for warping into that plex that can tackle one of these Recons long enough for your support to arrive while being neuted, jammed, damped and webbed? A triple-ECCMed, triple-Sensorboosted, dualcapboosted, dual 1600mm plated, 100MN AB Cynabal maybe? Oh wait... there could be a medslot/powergid problem. On the other hand, what again was your solution for the SOLO (!!!!!!!!!!) beginner who wants to join LowSec FW in his first Frig/Destroyer/Cruiser? Ah wait...: "Don't do FW in Lowsec until you can come with a 10+ Gang!" Yeah thats a great idea, because the concept of "just bring the blob" is what everyone out there wants and needs for having a fun time in Blob Online...
it would basically have to be a specially fitted lachesis with long point, no prop, cap booster (maybe 2) 1 eccm mod, and probably dual buffer tanked w/ transverse bulkheads, with information links. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect
516
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Posted - 2015.01.16 04:25:17 -
[2335] - Quote
All this change does is make the "other recons" actually viable and useful. Don't understand why people are running around like their hair's on fire. htfu
Hades Effect
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Lug Muad'Dib
Wise Humans Sword
35
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Posted - 2015.01.16 05:35:07 -
[2336] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote: Doesnt really take much time. Added an extra 5min at most. Im not [u]looking for only empty systems. Just less populated ones. Again, not every system is going to have recon dunk squads. Thats a strawman argument.
..
Or, use KB, look up pilots name, see recon kills. Move along.
And this is why it's a stupid mechanic.
D-Scan immunity is dumb.
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Tectonic Tetris
Tribal Core Defiant Legacy
0
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Posted - 2015.01.17 11:23:03 -
[2337] - Quote
Please roll back this change. I appreciate the intention of providing interesting new parameters, but this is just way off. The d-scan is an integral tool for anyone roaming in small gangs or solo. If we can no longer trust it, it will lead to more cautious behavior, slower gameplay and less fights. This is the last thing that low sec and fw needs, and will lead to further desolation.
You could make a case saying that cloaks already makes d-scan results non trustworthy. This is true to some extent, but the targeting delay and the inferior combat performance of cov ops enabled ships makes it less of an issue. Also as soon as any cloaked ship has committed to a fight, it is no longer invisible.
I will personally probably stop fighting solo or in small gangs in systems with overwhelmingly red locals. Previously you could dodge most scenarios semi effectively in a fast cruiser or smaller. Of course not risk free, but still worth it for the fun. With potential sensor-boosted, instalocking lachesises, rooks or huginns lurking at every beacon or celestial, the caution needed would tip the scale towards boredom.
I'm sure that I am not the only one who will change their behavior in space like this, and I'm pretty sure it's not a good thing. |
Wander Prian
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
56
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Posted - 2015.01.17 11:39:18 -
[2338] - Quote
The time it takes from showing up on your overview and you getting locked up is about the same, be it from warping in or from decloaking. You have exactly the same warning, except that combat recon might be too far away to point you right away, instead of decloaking by bumping you from alignment.
Besides, you can find the combat recon with probes. You cannot find the cloaky ship unless he wants to be found. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
192
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Posted - 2015.01.17 13:37:18 -
[2339] - Quote
D-scan immunity will only extend the time you will jump into fight. Before you just hop into ship and jump into plex. Now you have to scan a plex and if there are recons, you have to decide if you want to take a risk and jump into instalocking ecming camp...rubbish.
Wander Prian wrote:Besides, you can find the combat recon with probes. You cannot find the cloaky ship unless he wants to be found. Same applies to combat recons, you won't find them unless they want to be find.
It seems like d-scan change made a mess with FW and have no real impact on fleets.
Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.
I am the night. I'm Bantam.
More exploration in exploration
|
Arla Sarain
245
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Posted - 2015.01.17 14:59:01 -
[2340] - Quote
Tectonic Tetris wrote:The d-scan is an integral tool for anyone roaming in small gangs or solo. If we can no longer trust it, it will lead to more cautious behavior, slower gameplay and less fights. Pretty much it
This phenomenon has been noticed through out countless games. The less information you provide the more cautious players become and tend to risk less. EVE is already an extremely proactive heavy game.
I never understood the example CCP provided - if someone who wouldn't have had engaged an enemy because a recon was on D-SCAN decides to do so now because the DSCAN fools him into believing the recon is not present, NOW people will die once and never be bothered to engage in that activity again. Whatever global benefit this change had will be short term. |
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