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Kestral Anneto
BlackSky.
22
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Posted - 2014.12.26 15:57:47 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all im looking into building capitals of all kinds, bar titans. As i get my kicks from knowing the things that i build will hopefully ruin someones day, its my current end goal. To my way of thinking, buying minerals and importing them to the construction area is half arsing the job, so i want to mine my own minerals. how long would it take, assuming medium mining and refining skills, to chew through enough rock to build a dread, carrier etc, on my own? |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
614
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Posted - 2014.12.26 16:12:47 -
[2] - Quote
don't even bother... you can't mine yourself unless u got fleet of 6-10 alts mining together and even then good luck mining all the minerals you need.
will be easier to run L4 security in highsec and purchase the minerals you want from the market.
"What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what."
- Aaron Birch
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Kestral Anneto
BlackSky.
22
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Posted - 2014.12.26 16:22:43 -
[3] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:don't even bother... you can't mine yourself unless u got fleet of 6-10 alts mining together and even then good luck mining all the minerals you need.
will be easier to run L4 security in highsec and purchase the minerals you want from the market.
I dont want to buy them, im an industrialist, not a mission runner, i want to mine them and make it myself, i dont consider time an important factor, as its what i enjoy doing. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1580
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Posted - 2014.12.26 16:38:46 -
[4] - Quote
Maybe start with a lot of reading.
To start, supercaps require a POS anchored in sov nullsec. If you have that, your corpmates/alliancemates are the people to ask. An alliance with a supercapital building POS probably has a group of people building them
No one would move minerals, they're too large, would require multiple jumpfreighter trips per ship. Compressed ore is the way to go. As for amount, let's just take trit. to build an Archon (for example) with perfectly researched component BPOs and an ME 9 Archon BPO will require roughly, approximately 55 000 000 units of trit. If we were to ignore all other minerals and ores (for simplicity), that's about 18 million units of veldspar.
Now in reality it wouldn't be that high, since Plagioclase, Scordite, Omber, Kernite, Pyroxes, etc all have Veldspar, but it should give you an idea of scale.
Then you need a highsec POS to compress the ore and a jump freighter (plus cyno alt) to get the minerals to the construction station.
Plus over 20 billion ISK worth of BPOs (or BPCs if you want to lose most profit) |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1580
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Posted - 2014.12.26 16:39:40 -
[5] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:I dont want to buy them, im an industrialist.
Most large scale industrialists don't mine. They buy minerals/ore.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4485
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Posted - 2014.12.26 20:03:36 -
[6] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Kestral Anneto wrote:I dont want to buy them, im an industrialist. Most large scale industrialists don't mine. They buy minerals/ore. Mining the amount of ore that even a medium-scale industrial setup is capable of using is hard to without multiple alts. The reason why I own 4 Charon and 2 Rhea: Tritanium. It is a PITA to haul. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
197
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Posted - 2014.12.26 20:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:Hi all im looking into building capitals of all kinds, bar titans. As i get my kicks from knowing the things that i build will hopefully ruin someones day, its my current end goal. To my way of thinking, buying minerals and importing them to the construction area is half arsing the job, so i want to mine my own minerals. how long would it take, assuming medium mining and refining skills, to chew through enough rock to build a dread, carrier etc, on my own?
With a perfect Orca booster and three perfect hulk pilots mining in 0.5 with a passive play style where you mine every evening after work until you go to bed while watching TV or whatever else you could probably mine enough for 3 dreads a month. A supercarrier would take literally forever. A Titan would take 5 forevers. The other option you had would be to use ISBoxer and run a 20-man mining fleet, but that will be going away on January 1.
Basically, people who produce a ton of caps don't mine their own stuff. Remember, unless you are in a null alliance with upgraded stations to work from you'll be building from a POS. That's 300-500 mil a month expense plus the risk of having stuff in space and either having your own corp or be in a corp that will let you put up a POS that you can trust the leaders of not to steal your stuff that's in it (directors and CEOs will have the ability to get into your stuff).
Since you need a certain amount of social setup and you'll have a certain amount of overhead the best way to get a good business going is to be able to meet a certain sales volume. If you buy stuff smartly and build well you can make 200-400 million ISK profit per cap with minerals/ore that you've purchased. So getting a situation where you can build and sell 2-5 extra caps per month will serve you better than playing Eve all day every day to be able to sell your 2-3 caps maximum that you've made from scratch.
I do know people that make caps from scratch. It is doable. However, it's usually just players who fly caps and aren't in an alliance that will SRP their caps and they lose caps 2-3 times a year so when they do lose one, they just go mine for a few weeks and make their replacement instead of buying it on the market.
So I mean what you want to do is definitely doable, but it has a lot to do with how you want to spend your time in the game, and how you want to meet your goals.
Cap builders who like making a nice passive living off of building caps do mine here and there, when they are in the mood, but generally the lion's share of their supply is purchased.
Watch for the markets to change next year as the bot fleets get banned and the ore supply dries up. Your idea may be a better option at that time. Does this help? |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
88
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Posted - 2014.12.26 21:28:28 -
[8] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote: how long would it take, assuming medium mining and refining skills, to chew through enough rock to build a dread, carrier etc, on my own?
Nobody seems to have directly answered your question. Somewhere in the order of 200 hours to have the materials to build a dread.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
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Civ Kado
Alpha Velorum
52
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Posted - 2014.12.26 21:43:21 -
[9] - Quote
first off, I really hate this mentallity that a lot of eve players have. That to do anything in the game requires a fleet of alts and computers. I really effing hate that. This is an MMO, big part of whose enjoyment comes out from playing with others.
Yes, you can build caps from what you mine. But remember that caps are very much end-game ships both for the pilots and industrialists. They require funds that take a long time to accrue. If you are a very proactive leader of your corporation, have regular mining fleets with corp member you can easily build caps from scratch, assuming you have a decent amount of corpmembers. So, if you mine solo, it would take an unrealistically amount of time to build from scratch, but if you mine as a corporation with a handful of pilots, you can realistically build from scratch. |
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
197
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Posted - 2014.12.26 22:35:10 -
[10] - Quote
Civ Kado wrote:first off, I really hate this mentallity that a lot of eve players have. That to do anything in the game requires a fleet of alts and computers. I really effing hate that. This is an MMO, big part of whose enjoyment comes out from playing with others.
Yes, you can build caps from what you mine. But remember that caps are very much end-game ships both for the pilots and industrialists. They require funds that take a long time to accrue. If you are a very proactive leader of your corporation, have regular mining fleets with corp member you can easily build caps from scratch, assuming you have a decent amount of corpmembers. So, if you mine solo, it would take an unrealistically amount of time to build from scratch, but if you mine as a corporation with a handful of pilots, you can realistically build from scratch.
Well, when you get 10 billion worth of stuff stolen by someone you think is your friend, you'll consider doing stuff by yourself with alts. If he joins a corp he'll have so suck everybody off until they even let him get involved in the building processes. And there's always some jackass who will pose problems. If he wants to work with others, he can be the CEO as you've indicated. That's really the only method that has worked for me this far. It ended up stressing me out too much though. Not everyone can do it (as most EVE CEOs show).
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Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
294
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Posted - 2014.12.26 23:08:46 -
[11] - Quote
If you're looking at mining your own minerals to produce goods, I would highly recommend starting off small and working your way up.
You'll get to a point where you simply cannot mine fast enough to keep up with your production capacity, in which case you'll have to import minerals anyways.
If you really want to mine your own minerals, it is best to look at it as:
What can I make out of these minerals I mined for the most profit
Instead of:
How long do I have to mine to make this one capital ship?
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
1890
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Posted - 2014.12.27 04:19:39 -
[12] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:don't even bother... you can't mine yourself unless u got fleet of 6-10 alts mining together and even then good luck mining all the minerals you need.
will be easier to run L4 security in highsec and purchase the minerals you want from the market. I dont want to buy them, im an industrialist, not a mission runner, i want to mine them and make it myself, i dont consider time an important factor, as its what i enjoy doing. The best industrialists tend to buy their materials. Otherwise they are limiting their production. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
496
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Posted - 2014.12.27 06:28:42 -
[13] - Quote
Civ Kado wrote:first off, I really hate this mentallity that a lot of eve players have. That to do anything in the game requires a fleet of alts and computers. I really effing hate that. This is an MMO, big part of whose enjoyment comes out from playing with others. Well, seeing as he doesn't want to buy the minerals, are you suggesting some kind of slave labor? What particular scam do you have in mind? |
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
326
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Posted - 2014.12.27 11:13:56 -
[14] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:If you're looking at mining your own minerals to produce goods, I would highly recommend starting off small and working your way up.
You'll get to a point where you simply cannot mine fast enough to keep up with your production capacity, in which case you'll have to import minerals anyways.
If you really want to mine your own minerals, it is best to look at it as:
What can I make out of these minerals I mined for the most profit
Instead of:
How long do I have to mine to make this one capital ship?
^ this man speaks the truth. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
89
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Posted - 2014.12.27 11:45:06 -
[15] - Quote
voetius wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:If you're looking at mining your own minerals to produce goods, I would highly recommend starting off small and working your way up.
You'll get to a point where you simply cannot mine fast enough to keep up with your production capacity, in which case you'll have to import minerals anyways.
If you really want to mine your own minerals, it is best to look at it as:
What can I make out of these minerals I mined for the most profit
Instead of:
How long do I have to mine to make this one capital ship?
^ this man speaks the truth.
Perhaps but the OP didn't ask you or anyone else what the lot of you would do. When a statement ends in '?' and it gets anything but an answer, well opinions are like the lot of you.
Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
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Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
531
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Posted - 2014.12.27 12:53:03 -
[16] - Quote
Kestral Anneto wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:don't even bother... you can't mine yourself unless u got fleet of 6-10 alts mining together and even then good luck mining all the minerals you need.
will be easier to run L4 security in highsec and purchase the minerals you want from the market. I dont want to buy them, im an industrialist, not a mission runner, i want to mine them and make it myself, i dont consider time an important factor, as its what i enjoy doing.
I do what you do. The exception being Megacyte. I buy it.
Anything you mine, be prepared to mine Veld 10:1 and you can mine around 2 mill Trit an hr in a Mackinaw. 35K hold, 350K Dense Veld, Veld converts 3:1 to Trit.
You can do two things. Multi-box or spend years staring at rocks. Compress it all in High Sec, Black Ops it in to low when the coast is clear and reproc it there or mine in one of the high sec pockets and gate it in compressed, when the coast is clear. Make the parts, make the capitals. It can be done, it just takes longer.
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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Marcus Tedric
Tedric Enterprises
34
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Posted - 2014.12.27 15:32:58 -
[17] - Quote
Give it a try.....
You will want a Freighter, so pick which one you want to fly and obtain a BPC pack to build one.
Mine all the mins you want (use Anomalies for the more tricky Ores/Mins) and stockpile them in a station with a Factory; or, if you wished, go the whole way and put up a POS (you will need a Component Array and a Large Ship Assembly Array).
If you mine further away, then Compress and move the Ore - you could even refine it directly at the POS (or at the station itself) in a Reprocessing Array (easy to move stuff this way).
Build the Components, then build the Freighter (you will need a Ship Maint Array at a POS if you do it there).
If this becomes your thing, then Carriers & Dreads can be done in Low Sec - all the above can be done in High Sec.
Investigate and give it a try. |
Hippinse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2014.12.28 07:53:21 -
[18] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:voetius wrote:Mr Omniblivion wrote:If you're looking at mining your own minerals to produce goods, I would highly recommend starting off small and working your way up.
You'll get to a point where you simply cannot mine fast enough to keep up with your production capacity, in which case you'll have to import minerals anyways.
If you really want to mine your own minerals, it is best to look at it as:
What can I make out of these minerals I mined for the most profit
Instead of:
How long do I have to mine to make this one capital ship?
^ this man speaks the truth. Perhaps but the OP didn't ask you or anyone else what the lot of you would do. When a statement ends in '?' and it gets anything but an answer, well opinions are like the lot of you.
If the question can be framed as "what is the best way for me to bite off more than I can chew", then advice to start smaller and work your way up isn't exactly malicious. It might even keep someone playing longer than the "real answer".
I don't always agree with Mr Omniblivion but his advice in this thread is constructive. |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
212
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Posted - 2014.12.28 13:33:56 -
[19] - Quote
It's not a direct answer to the OP but I would personally say do what you enjoy doing in the game as regards industrial activities.
I would add a few caveats to that statement though:
a) Obviously you want to look to making a profit. b) Try not to collapse markets and attempt to keep prices on an even keel. c) Don't adopt a 'MIMAF' mindset (Minerals I Mine Are Free.) as this is bad for you as well as everyone else.
Google 'The Mittani' and look at his blogsite. There is currently an article on there comparing RL vs EVE economics which is quite a good read.
" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. "-áRick.
" Find out what ? "-áAbraham.
" They're screwing with the wrong people. "-áRick.
Season four.-á-á ' The Walking Dead. ' .
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Perkin Warbeck
Black Watch Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
185
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Posted - 2014.12.29 07:39:25 -
[20] - Quote
The key issue is whether the OP wants to build a capital for their personal use or whether they want to build a capital for a regular and ongoing profit.
If it's for personal use then by all means mine the minerals yourself. If it's for profit then the only way to go is to buy the ore/minerals. There is just no other way to produce sufficient capitals each and every month to cover the initial and ongoing costs of building them (blueprints, POS Fuel, haulage etc, etc). Alts help of course but you can do this solo.
But as anyone who has ever built capitals knows, buying and hauling minerals isn't a half arsed job. It is the job. |
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