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Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
9
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Posted - 2014.12.27 20:35:59 -
[1] - Quote
Hear me out here. I'm a new player and the formatting will be crap because I'm on an iPad.
So we have T3 cruisers and T3 destroyers but what about T3 frigates. I propose a idea that uses the mode function of a destroyer in a very different way. The idea is these ships are good at 3 things. They can explore systems and search for potential habitats. They can deal with threats in system if they want to. And finally they can strip useless systems of material.
The lore is that the 4 empires have found a way to modify BPCs from sleeper sites and are attempting to build their own version. The Gallente have seen potential for a large drone bay. The Caldari have decided that the probing capacity is the core focus. The Amarr believe that this is the perfect ship to expand their borders with. Finally the Minmatar think it looks cool with big sheets of armour attached. So each faction has focused on a different aspect but the core ship remains the same.
The 3 modes are :
Exploration : large panels extract from the ship to act as sensor arrays but the ship suffers as these arrays use polarised armour plating. However they provide a small buff for shield resists as the arrays form connections. The Caldari get a large buff to shields.
Engagement : The panels become unpolarised and fold inwards forming a large interlocking array and the energy gets re-routed to shield generators and weapons systems sensors are also focused on weapon systems.
Stripping : The ship systems now focus on 1 thing. Gas Mining. The ship extends as the gas miners strip all gas clouds of resource. A small but to Ice and ore mining occurs so the buffs are very similar to the venture
But the key ingredient to the whole thing is ... THE SHIP CAN REFIT ITSELF
In the hangar you can specify a miner fit, a combat fit and an exploration fit. The ship would then transform itself and it's fittings as it changed.
TL:DR The ship can change from a Cov-ops to an assault frigate to a venture and refit itself. It is based off of a sleeper BPC that is unusable and faction variants have slight differences |
Tusker Crazinski
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
7
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:05:08 -
[2] - Quote
honestly I'd rather current hulls got more work instead of flooding the space lanes tones of new hulls. and more importantly, I'd rather see less ships be completely overshadowed by T3 marry sue bullshit.
This happens a lot in other games, for example first person shooters. Some of the best FPS games only have a hand full of guns that are very well designed in function and aesthetics. In contrast most AAA shooters will give you 200 plus guns the chose from and thousands of mods and what ends up happening is there just will be one or two guns that obsolete All of them.
Simply put, just adding more **** starts to make this game a mile wide and a inch deep, |
Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
9
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:13:35 -
[3] - Quote
Tusker Crazinski wrote:honestly I'd rather current hulls got more work instead of flooding the space lanes tones of new hulls. and more importantly, I'd rather see less ships be completely overshadowed by T3 marry sue bullshit.
This happens a lot in other games, for example first person shooters. Some of the best FPS games only have a hand full of guns that are very well designed in function and aesthetics. In contrast most AAA shooters will give you 200 plus guns the chose from and thousands of mods and what ends up happening is there just will be one or two guns that obsolete All of them.
Simply put, just adding more **** starts to make this game a mile wide and a inch deep,
In my opinion the game has a lot of well balanced ships and apart from a few BC and BS issues I don't see why you want more attention to the existing hulls. And EvE has been adding ships from a period of 10+ years balancing each role. Now nearly every ship has a niche to fill and this one fills another. In AAA shooters there is probably 1-2 'best' tactics so 1-2 good guns but in EvE we have hundreds of ways to win and so every ship has a place
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Bob Maths
Aliastra Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:14:23 -
[4] - Quote
We already have modes, custom designed component related stats and outfitting or otherwise specialised roles for the more advanced users. I suppose that on-the-fly exchange of modules would create an alternative dynamic. Perhaps these modules are specific to the class of frigate rather than general modules used by everyone else.
How would you implement so that they didn't detract from the utility provided by other frigates? |
colera deldios
283
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:17:02 -
[5] - Quote
Wow that is so cool. Do you have any more stupid ideas ? |
Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
9
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:23:58 -
[6] - Quote
Bob Maths wrote:We already have modes, custom designed component related stats and outfitting or otherwise specialised roles for the more advanced users. I suppose that on-the-fly exchange of modules would create an alternative dynamic. Perhaps these modules are specific to the class of frigate rather than general modules used by everyone else.
How would you implement these frigates so that they didn't detract from the utility provided by other frigates?
At what level would these modules be? Would they be slightly better than T2 for less but not necessarily better than faction, deadspace or officer modules?
The modules would be fit personally and the T3 frigate can't logi/e-war at all and it's DPS is poor. It is meant as a hybrid explo frigate/drone boat/sniper/miner. It of course would be expensive and skill intensive. As well as that the DPS would be outdone by an assault frigate and the range would be outclassed by a commy. The ship comes into its own as a jack-of-all-trades solo ship or as a point/scout. The tank would be very large in engagement mode and the probes would rival that of a cov-ops in exploration with Ladar/gravimetric sites easily runnable. The thing would be more suited to solo players as it can be used in any situation. |
Aran Hotchkiss
Phoibe Enterprises
39
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:27:59 -
[7] - Quote
Wait this is a new thread about t3 frigates? What happened to the other two?
Tl;dr, threads on this topic already exist, therefore this is likely to be locked for being a redundant thread. |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
821
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 22:32:28 -
[8] - Quote
Davey Talvanen wrote: In my opinion the game has a lot of well balanced ships and apart from a few BC and BS issues I don't see why you want more attention to the existing hulls.
Just because you don't see the issues doesn't mean there are not issues.
There are numerous issues with AHACs, t3 cruiser balance, capitals (lol Nidhoggur/Revelation), basically any Minmatar ship that uses autocannons, all BC's, some BS's, Blops, module balancing....
There's a lot of balance issues people are unhappy about. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3781
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 22:32:32 -
[9] - Quote
Removed an off topic post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Bob Maths
Aliastra Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:43:51 -
[10] - Quote
Davey Talvanen wrote:Bob Maths wrote:We already have modes, custom designed component related stats and outfitting or otherwise specialised roles for the more advanced users. I suppose that on-the-fly exchange of modules would create an alternative dynamic. Perhaps these modules are specific to the class of frigate rather than general modules used by everyone else.
How would you implement these frigates so that they didn't detract from the utility provided by other frigates?
At what level would these modules be? Would they be slightly better than T2 for less but not necessarily better than faction, deadspace or officer modules? The modules would be fit personally and the T3 frigate can't logi/e-war at all and it's DPS is poor. It is meant as a hybrid explo frigate/drone boat/sniper/miner. It of course would be expensive and skill intensive. As well as that the DPS would be outdone by an assault frigate and the range would be outclassed by a commy. The ship comes into its own as a jack-of-all-trades solo ship or as a point/scout. The tank would be very large in engagement mode and the probes would rival that of a cov-ops in exploration with Ladar/gravimetric sites easily runnable. The thing would be more suited to solo players as it can be used in any situation.
What's the point of having a ship and pre-defined sets of modules if it is outclassed by other ships of different types? Why not have a: Racial turret set of modules (so from High Slot modules to Low Slot modules) that give a bonus (which exceeds some of the higher end modules, this includes damage enhancers) Shield/Armour Tanking set EWAR set and so on for basic roles, the set bonuses however confer the role bonuses and the per-skill level bonuses that you would normally find on such ships. It only has as a pre-defined bonus +10% to sensor strength for racial type of sensor.
And for more specialised roles Interception set Assault set Covert Ops set EA set Expedition set
However the set bonuses won't necessarily be better than the specialised ships but the versatility should make up for that. In addition to that, you could define a specialism through rigging which would then put the frigate above the other frigates of that type but still make the other frigates viable to be used in battles |
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Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
9
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:56:15 -
[11] - Quote
Bob Maths wrote:Davey Talvanen wrote:Bob Maths wrote:We already have modes, custom designed component related stats and outfitting or otherwise specialised roles for the more advanced users. I suppose that on-the-fly exchange of modules would create an alternative dynamic. Perhaps these modules are specific to the class of frigate rather than general modules used by everyone else.
How would you implement these frigates so that they didn't detract from the utility provided by other frigates?
At what level would these modules be? Would they be slightly better than T2 for less but not necessarily better than faction, deadspace or officer modules? The modules would be fit personally and the T3 frigate can't logi/e-war at all and it's DPS is poor. It is meant as a hybrid explo frigate/drone boat/sniper/miner. It of course would be expensive and skill intensive. As well as that the DPS would be outdone by an assault frigate and the range would be outclassed by a commy. The ship comes into its own as a jack-of-all-trades solo ship or as a point/scout. The tank would be very large in engagement mode and the probes would rival that of a cov-ops in exploration with Ladar/gravimetric sites easily runnable. The thing would be more suited to solo players as it can be used in any situation. What's the point of having a ship and pre-defined sets of modules if it is outclassed by other ships of different types? Why not have a: Racial turret set of modules (so from High Slot modules to Low Slot modules) that give a bonus (which exceeds some of the higher end modules, this includes damage enhancers) Shield/Armour Tanking set EWAR set and so on for basic roles, the set bonuses however confer the role bonuses and the per-skill level bonuses that you would normally find on such ships. It only has as a pre-defined bonus +10% to sensor strength for racial type of sensor. And for more specialised roles Interception set Assault set Covert Ops set EA set Expedition set However the set bonuses won't necessarily be better than the specialised ships but the versatility should make up for that. In addition to that, you could define a specialism through rigging which would then put the frigate above the other frigates of that type but still make the other frigates viable to be used in battles
There is no pre-defined set of modules but you make 3 distinct fittings and link them to the 3 modes. However I just had the idea ( this post inspired it) instead of having 3 distinct fittings and buffs you could add 3 cores to your ship. Each core represents a different set of buffs. So an inty core + a cov-ops core + a assault core would work for a PvP setup
A list of random core ideas :
1 for every ship type A T2 companion for each core A armadillo core (pure tank) Glass cannon ( pure DPS) Travel core ( Interdiction nullifier + warp core stability) Sniper core Drone core ( Gallente only) Missile core( Caldari only) Dual tank core (Minmitar shield/armour hybrid tank) Something Amarr
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Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
9
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Posted - 2014.12.27 22:58:17 -
[12] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Davey Talvanen wrote: In my opinion the game has a lot of well balanced ships and apart from a few BC and BS issues I don't see why you want more attention to the existing hulls.
Just because you don't see the issues doesn't mean there are not issues. There are numerous issues with AHACs, t3 cruiser balance, capitals (lol Nidhoggur/Revelation), basically any Minmatar ship that uses autocannons, all BC's, some BS's, Blops, module balancing.... There's a lot of balance issues people are unhappy about.
If you think they are balance issues go look at PlanetSide 2. They have balance issues |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
821
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 22:59:05 -
[13] - Quote
Davey Talvanen wrote:Anhenka wrote:Davey Talvanen wrote: In my opinion the game has a lot of well balanced ships and apart from a few BC and BS issues I don't see why you want more attention to the existing hulls.
Just because you don't see the issues doesn't mean there are not issues. There are numerous issues with AHACs, t3 cruiser balance, capitals (lol Nidhoggur/Revelation), basically any Minmatar ship that uses autocannons, all BC's, some BS's, Blops, module balancing.... There's a lot of balance issues people are unhappy about. If you think they are balance issues go look at PlanetSide 2. They have balance issues
Just because my neighbor's car spews smoke when it goes down the road does not make my car any less a beater. |
Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
9
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 23:02:05 -
[14] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Davey Talvanen wrote:Anhenka wrote:Davey Talvanen wrote: In my opinion the game has a lot of well balanced ships and apart from a few BC and BS issues I don't see why you want more attention to the existing hulls.
Just because you don't see the issues doesn't mean there are not issues. There are numerous issues with AHACs, t3 cruiser balance, capitals (lol Nidhoggur/Revelation), basically any Minmatar ship that uses autocannons, all BC's, some BS's, Blops, module balancing.... There's a lot of balance issues people are unhappy about. If you think they are balance issues go look at PlanetSide 2. They have balance issues Just because my neighbor's car spews smoke when it goes down the road does not make my car any less a beater.
My point is that these are minor balance changes within certain ship classes and not overall ship balance problemsw |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
822
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 23:09:49 -
[15] - Quote
Davey Talvanen wrote: My point is that these are minor balance changes within certain ship classes and not overall ship balance problemsw
What with eve not having a matchmaking system where you only face similar ships, any significant imbalance within a ship class is indeed an overall ship balance problem
Many people (myself included) hold the opinion that we need to fix the worst excesses of what we already have before adding new ships.
BC's are trash. Rorqual is trash. Autocannons are rather lackluster for anything other than C5 Vargur ops. Heavy missiles are sad, torpedoes the same. There are issues surrounding balance of Ishtar, Domi, Tengu. Loki is basically only useful as a flying super-hugin.
Not to mention CCP is still releasing (very slowly) the t3 destroyers.
So once CCP fixes the worst of the ship balances, finish releasing the t3 dessies, and finished the t3 cruiser rework, then MAYBE we can start seriously talking about t3 frigates. |
Davey Talvanen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
9
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 23:14:51 -
[16] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Davey Talvanen wrote: My point is that these are minor balance changes within certain ship classes and not overall ship balance problemsw
What with eve not having a matchmaking system where you only face similar ships, any significant imbalance within a ship class is indeed an overall ship balance problem Many people (myself included) hold the opinion that we need to fix the worst excesses of what we already have before adding new ships. BC's are trash. Rorqual is trash. Autocannons are rather lackluster for anything other than C5 Vargur ops. Heavy missiles are sad, torpedoes the same. There are issues surrounding balance of Ishtar, Domi, Tengu. Loki is basically only useful as a flying super-hugin. Not to mention CCP is still releasing (very slowly) the t3 destroyers. So once CCP fixes the worst of the ship balances, finish releasing the t3 dessies, and finished the t3 cruiser rework, then MAYBE we can start seriously talking about t3 frigates.
The idea was never meant for right now but it's nevertheless to early for discussion |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2645
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 01:11:11 -
[17] - Quote
Once t3 cruisers are worked out properly I would like to see is Strategic Frigates af Battleships and Tatical Battlecruisers. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
194
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 18:11:19 -
[18] - Quote
What is this...? The third topic in 2 weeks about T3 frigates or something? |
Aran Hotchkiss
Phoibe Enterprises
39
|
Posted - 2014.12.29 00:43:22 -
[19] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Once t3 cruisers are worked out properly I would like to see is Strategic Frigates af Battleships and Tatical Battlecruisers.
Bleurgh. Bit of a nomenclature rant here.
Tactical and strategic are different scales, I.e. superioit tactics win engagements, superior strategies win campaigns. I mean look at tactical and strategic missiles as an example - a tactical missile could be something employed in the middle of a battle to create a temporary advantage to be exploited, a strategic missile would be used to neutralise that army that'll arrive in two days time.
When I first saw t3 destroyers were going to be labelled as tactical I had a good chuckle (very clever, CCP, my hat off to you) - and their mechanics suit the name - able to be changed in-flight during engagements at the pilots discretion, and strategic cruisers (ideally) are changed in between engagements to suit particular roles.
So apart from wanting to slap people around the head when I hear them say frig/cruiser/battleship = strategic and the bastard hulls (destroyer / battle cruiser) = tactical , two questions: A) How would you class new t3 ship types B) How do you make a frigate more 'tactical' than d3's? How do you make a battleship more 'strategic' than a cruiser? Not to mention that start cruisers look like they're going to be overhauled anyway. Once the t3 destroyer/cruiser dust has settled, I'd be fine if they never implemented any more tech 3 hulls.
That combat engineer thread did look interesting though.
Right, one last thing *slaps Omnathius up the head for being a silly fool* |
Krops Vont
Genii Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.12.29 01:24:33 -
[20] - Quote
Krops Vont wrote:Honestly, the last thing we need is MORE t3 ships. There should be more specialized ships and re balances that are already coming into effect. Even the t3's are expecting a shaking up.
As with any human, we must map out everything for the sake of living. So what happens when you put the same aspect in a game with random events? They go nuts trying to figure out how to predict and map out everything.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
562
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Posted - 2014.12.29 02:21:41 -
[21] - Quote
Davey Talvanen wrote:Hear me out here. I'm a new player and the formatting will be crap because I'm on an iPad.
So we have T3 cruisers and T3 destroyers but what about T3 frigates.
we have 1 t3 dessie...that is just now coming out of speculation bubble price mode so not being spammed to death en masse....yet. And we don't have the template fotm fits for this carbon copied to death...yet. Still missing 3 racials and how they will play out as well.
And we have t3 cruisers which are need of balance and have been for a while. See we have a fun fact about t3 cruisers, they didn't earn their dreaded menacing aspect until people said what happens when I chuck on say 100mn prop mods or some other funky fitting combos. then flew them in massive fleet formations.
T3 cruiser didn't get its bad rep until this happened. Dessies have yet had the chance to reach this level yet, even with just the 1 t3 dessie. Not everyone had amarr dessie 5 done to fly these to blot out the sun day 1 of release (and the high wtf are you smoking pricing lol) and the skill book for the dessie being new means we aren't seeing all skill 5 in abundance yet. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2647
|
Posted - 2014.12.29 06:12:54 -
[22] - Quote
Aran Hotchkiss wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Once t3 cruisers are worked out properly I would like to see is Strategic Frigates af Battleships and Tatical Battlecruisers. So apart from wanting to slap people around the head when I hear them say frig/cruiser/battleship = strategic and the bastard hulls (destroyer / battle cruiser) = tactical , two questions: A) How would you class new t3 ship types B) How do you make a frigate more 'tactical' than d3's? How do you make a battleship more 'strategic' than a cruiser? Not to mention that start cruisers look like they're going to be overhauled anyway. Once the t3 destroyer/cruiser dust has settled, I'd be fine if they never implemented any more tech 3 hulls. *slaps Omnathius up the head for being a silly fool* Someone obviously doesn't understand simple naming correlations; Strategic = Subsystems Tactical = Modes like the D3s |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
835
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Posted - 2014.12.29 06:14:41 -
[23] - Quote
Davey Talvanen wrote:But the key ingredient to the whole thing is ... THE SHIP CAN REFIT ITSELF Like they already can using mobile depot? |
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